Are Ghosts OVERPOWERED? Serral (Zerg) vs Maru (Terran)
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- Starcraft 2 Legacy of the Void Champions Serral (Zerg) & Maru (Terran) meet in Dreamhack Masters Winter 2021! Another highlight series between the two tournament powerhouses continues to define the Zerg vs Terran meta.
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#Starcraft2 #SC2 #SerralvsMaru
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Wow so this is what it's like when you hit the 10th age in AoE 4!
The infestors were the most exciting play I've ever seen from Serral
46:29
The fusion core music with winter yelling "FUSION" bit never fails to make me smile.
I came to say exactly this. Please never stop doing this, Winter!
Do you happen to know the name of the "fusion core song"?
@@BarniHedgeturtle I'm not sure but I think it might be the music from lord of the rings when the rohirim ride out (maybe at helms deep? I haven't seen those movies in forever).
21:10
For some, ghosts are OP. For others like myself who never passed 45 apm, ghosts are just ordinary marines who do funny rifle sounds.
45 APM? No wonder why you think that. They are OP.
@@evelic We are very glad you got the joke 😀
"Shakespeare move over, Serrals making the plays now" 😂 amazing commentary
Star comment for me too
Exactly what I needed to get through the rest of the workday. Thanks for holding us all down with dope, consistent content. Been a fan for years.
seeing hydras being used again really cheers me up
How to counter Ghosts as Zerg? Simple! Pray your opponent forgets them!
Was working today, so I was late to being early. This is still a great treat for after work. Looking forward to watching
I love your casts
Watching Serral overcome this composition is for some reason very satisfying for me.
Still OP
Honestly Serral is overrated. I could totally beat him if he was afk for 20 or 30 minutes.
The third game is what makes Serral semi enjoyable to watch, the mechanical prowess, decision making, the objective right call (most of the time)
Other people may be the cheese or crazy strategies or landslide victories and efficiency, Serral is just doing what should be done - It's the same to a degree with Cure by the sounds of it, just doing the right thing, not doing the 'wrong' thing best
zerg isn't fun to watch
@@cavemantero that’s your opinion. as wrong as you may be.
I would shit my pants being attacked by that zerg army...
"Maru knows that Serral knows Maru"
Serral ain't out to Entertain... He's out to win
So tired of seeing ghosts being good in every TvZ/PvT match up in every circumstance.
So tired of seeing whiners not understand that Terran is forced to go ghost or die. They simply cannot hold against either of the 2 races without ghost mid to late game.
Ghosts aren't OP, completely balanced.
(Ignoring TvT)
Hellbats useless, reapers useless.
hellions only for very early game then useless
thors very niche. either against protoss air or mutas.
tanks only good against protoss or against roach compositions. (lings just swarm and kill them easily)
cyclones only useful against protoss proxies and otherwise mostly useless
battlecruisers useless against protoss and still niche against zerg. late game corrupter/viper just annihilates BC
Out of all 3 races terrans have the most units per game that are just never made, because they don't fit a role in a matchup or against a composition.
But more than anything else terrans have only 2 spellcaster units and the raven is limited except in TvT.
All the splash damage requires sieging of units in some form.
The ghost fills in the gaps of having splash against protoss as well as countering the more numerous and generally speaking more impactful spellcaster units of zerg.
Don't get me wrong from above, I'm not saying that terran is UP either.
This game is very very well balanced pretty much across the board.
Some units are just good and others are worse.
If terran was balanced differently and ghosts were worse then something else would be better and become more integral.
if you want to watch the best vs the best get used to them using certain compositions.
otherwise go watch bronze league heroes :)
examples of this can be in LoL - certain heroes get picked all the time.
or in CS GO its always the same guns being used.
football nearly always use 4-2-2 or 4-3-3 formations.
basketball always the same team formats too.
every single competitive environment on earth relies upon finding what works and then using that.
that's the nature of COMPETITION
@@TheMHB199 No one said that ghosts arent necessary in the current meta, were all just tired of ghosts being the only unit that matters, theyre good against everything except mechanical units. Its hard to say the game is "very very well balance" when the Terran late game revolves around a single unit that fulfills multiple roles.
@@Valsoriel as i explained thought, if you change balance something else will take its place. its just that simple and then you'll see that unit every single game.
not every unit is as diverse or powerful as the other.
every race as its own unique mechanics, units, strangths and weaknesses.
you know how hard it is to balance all that.
look at the win rates at the very top level, almost 33% across the board for all races.
look at tournament. semis/finals. nearly always a mostly equivalent number of each race (usually 1 more zerg)
when you take bias and opinions out of it and just look at objective facts.
1. ghosts fill multiple powerful roles that other terran units simply cannot cover but the race as a whole is not OP or UP.
2. the game overall is extremely well balanced.
@@TheMHB199 Hellbats useless? what are you talking about, they own lings on late game scrappy fights. Anyway I think the ghost is too OP, 33% snipe damage reduction would bring it a bit more in line or keep dmg but slower mana regeneration. They simply annihilate hydras, ultralisk, broodlords, vipers too easily imo.
@@birzusergiu5165 first off you took 1 line out of context and made that your argument against what I'd wrote?
My main argument is this. The ghost is strong because without it the terran comp is weak. It needs to be strong. If you nerf it then you need to buff something else.
In terms of Winrates all 3 races are very very well balanced and only the very best of the best even have the control to abuse ghosts the the point they look that strong. We are talking about maybe 3 terran players in the entire world.
A 33% reduction of snipe (I assume you mean damage) would destroy terrans late game vs zerg. In fact you wouldn't even 1 shot zealots with that amount of damage. Snipe would go from strong to almost completely useless. I don't think you realise how much you are asking to change. 33% is huge!
Also if you really really want to go down this route of nerfing snipe. Then can you explain what you would buff in the terran comp that will balance it out?
I never get tired of these let's gooo
I never noticed that Serral's card, "The Finnisher," has 2 of the letter 'n.' lol
MARU'S PICTURE SHOULD BE OF CAT - CAT ON RUclips TOO
Is winters Commentary overpowered? Yes. Yes it is.
I love doing massive amounts of adderall and watching these videos at 3x speed
Maru is definitely an aggressive turtle terran and the best at it
Seeing Winter with hands is kind of unusual cuz I've always seen him from the elbows up. 😆
20:03 hyperactive baneling
Winter wearing a pair of glasses in the thumbnail makes him look so professional :DD
Liked and commented.
TvZ I think is really needing a new balance patch just to mix it up. It seems to always be ling bane vs m units, then into lurkers which is retaliated with ghosts, that's been the majority of what I've been seeing with tvz.
Don't forget the liberators
@@gabrielhoelzle8476 Irrelevant. You can add some tanks, libs or vikings... doesn't change the core part of the terran army... always ghosts with medivac and marauder. Serral makes all casters there are... queens, overseers, infestors and vipers. Maru made 0 ravens in all games.
@@zhadoomzx If you don't think adding tanks and liberators changes how a terran army functions you didn't play a lot of terran
@@gabrielhoelzle8476 Oh really? Does that changes so much? How about using something other than broken ghosts with no counter? Now THAT would be a change you cann't even dream of since adding less than 15 supply of some mech units seems to be the ultimate horizon of your imagination.
@@zhadoomzx I mean... Units that need to siege up require more positioning and planning ahead than most other units, it's not even debatable. You can argue that's super easy and you can do it perfectly with your eyes closed, in which case congrats on your galaxy brain I guess 🙄
t shirt it "Elitest Terrans" or Cure works smarter not harder"
The ghosts abilities makes them Way overpowered. They can one shot any unit plus, they hard counter all spellcasters plus you need a detector unit to have a chance. There are. O other 7nits in the game that you can mass produce which can one shot any other unit... IMO
Winter you are the best caster!
The cards at the beginning are beautiful! :D
No, ghosts aren't unstoppable when lurkers are a hard counter. Kinda silly that snipes are the same range as a lurker's auto attack and the lurker can always interrupt the snipe. Near-instant burrow, fast creep movement, and 10 range on a unit that splashes and requires detection against is truly overpowered. Terran used to counter in SC1 with tanks that 2 shot lurkers, but lurkers in sc2 so tanky that it requires 4 tank shots to kill a lurker.
Really fun games thanks for the commentary!
29:23 That's because lurkers against a terran with ghost is just dependant on if the terran messes up or you're already far enough ahead to just run them in. Basically hands over agency to the terran and doing that against Maru is suicide.
Winterstarcraft = Best Starcraft.
“Take me to MechDonalds” - hahaha
Why dont serral emp the ghosts with neural parasite its easier than fungal and attack
Take me to MechDonalds. Play me the Mecharina of Time. Show me the Mech of cards! SMELL THE MECH AND CHEESE!!!! Let's Mech about it guys. Tell me what mechs you feel clever
enjoy the casts as always Winter, the queen voice never gets old for me. Happy Thanksgiving! im grateful that i get to enjoy your casts!
Lmfao "epilepsy warning i guess"
they are clearly not unstopabble, Maru got stomped on
3:08
Not important? . .
My wandering brain begs to differ
We need you to comment Maru vs Clem! Please!
So, why do the pros always use parasitic bomb on Medivacs, instead of just abducting them?
The former does very little against players like these, who are excellent at splitting. The latter is a guaranteed kill.
I don't get it.
Without a bunch of hydras or queens ready to start shooting, abduction is not a guaranteed kill. Also requires more attention from ranged units and stops them from firing on the actual army for a while. Best case with an abduction is one kill per abduction (which is ATM intensive). Lastly, although Maru is great a splitting, I have seen many top tier players lose 4-5 medivacs because they don't have the extra ATM to split properly in the heat of the battle.
@@Jbell101792 If you don't have anti-air or in the middle of a fight is one thing but they do it even when they DO have anti-air and are just posturing for a fight. That is what does not make sense to me. I get that it works in lower leagues but I have watched a lot of pro matches and it is VERY rare for the cloud to do much more than the minimum damage in those.
Frisky Dingo ..... Winter rocks...👀☣️👀
Watched the first 3min then slept the other 1hr 15min, 10/10 will watch again for actual content now.
Yup, epilepsy engaged, but totally worth it.
The seizure was totally worth it.
GIFF MOR CONTENT!11!
"Are Ghosts UNSTOPPABLE for Zerg?"
No. Consider what the game would be like for Terran vs. lurkers or brood lords without ghosts. You'd be asking the same question of lurkers and brood lords. Without ghosts, Terrans would get steamrolled in the mid-late game. Same thing applies to disruptors and high templar in TvP.
that doesn't answer the question though. you're saying that ghosts are necessary to counter zerg lategame units, while the question is asking if zerg has an answer to ghosts in the lategame. the only real option zerg has against ghost / widowmine / medivac in the lategame is to hope the terran makes a misplay and loses too many of their ghosts before they kill all the lurkers
that being said! i don't think ghosts should be gutted or removed or anything, but i think there's a nerf that makes them more skill-intensive without reducing their core strength, which is that ghosts should lose their energy on the cast of "steady targetting" instead of on the shot. that way, if ghosts overkill a lurker, or their shot gets cancelled by damage, or their target moves out of range, they still lose their energy. it means that terrans have to have better control and decision making with their snipes and can't just rapid-fire blanket it over the zerg army with no negative consequences. basically, good terrans with good micro (not impossible micro, just good micro) will still make ghosts look broken, but it will take more apm and active decision making, and opens some opportunity for zerg to punish overaggression or poor decision making.
@@Jai-xv5gz ghosts need heavy micro against both lunkers and broodlords. Maru is OP not ghosts try it yourself how easy a counter ghosts really are
@@chadgiga4213 i mean, i'm talking about balance at the highest level, not in my diamond elo matches. right now, in order for zerg players to win an evenly-matched late game scenario, they have to pray that terrans make a massive mistake that they can capitalize off of before the terran player bleeds them dry of resources
@@Jai-xv5gz I mean as it should be. i think you need to watch "not as high level" pros even they cant keep their damn ghosts alive sometimes. keeping them alive against G damn Serral is an achievement
DING DING THE BELL
EYYYY ITS MY TIME TO SHINE! don't let those tiny hp bars fool you, ghosts have 100 hp and dont take bonus damage from banes, good luck bugs.
Like number 320. Its a race for the next 100 likes to be that magical like 420 ! Ill roll one for you now !
'Are Gas or minerals more valuable' - in and of itself, minerals are more valuable (to have an infinite amount of), gas allows for efficiency, minerals are brute force
A bank of 3K gas with no minerals is meaningless, a bank of 3K minerals with no gas is generally a worse position to be in as minerals are usually easier to get and as such fix the disparity, but if it's for example in a mined out scenario, Minerals is the better position to be in each and every time - Only one is usable without the other
Serral is thought to be uninteresting because of the same reason ppl hate maths :P
Yes Terran bio is on the brink of OP. I just think Terran is boring to watch imo.
More
Burrow infestor is the meta lol
Man I hate clickbait titles.
EDIT; But like Winter casts.
Nice! :)
GG
Queens are the most broken early game unit, without question.
Not even close.
They anti-air they spread creep they heal eachother like wtf don’t they do 🧐🤔
Fly
They don't move quickly, they mass poorly because of their size, and their dps is underwhelming. They cost pop, but are required for production. They are one of only 2 zerg units that can shoot up, and the only one that's cost effective.
Good unit, yes. Broken, fuck no.
Apparently not, serral won as fucking usual.
FUUUSIIIOOOOOON
lmao! Typical Terran propaganda
No
Why aren't we seeing more infectors in TvZ?
hard-countered by ghost emp, not very effective against anything except for mass-marine or mass-viking which isn't very popular in the mid or late game. basically the same reason you don't see ultras very often. they can be good for securing a victory in a match that you are already ahead in, but aren't really useful in an even match at the top level.
when the last game starts with 15 minutes left in the game after two long drawn out games you know you're in for some cheese 🧀
Noiiiceeeeeee.
Are we just now having this conversation? Lol
I’ve always thought Ghosts were the highest skill cap unit for Terran, which still has the highest ceiling of the three races.
It's just another caster, what's so special about ghosts? Or is this some more terran masturbatory comment?
In fact ghosts are one of the easiest casters, they have cloak, a large amount of HP and can actually fight back. Good luck with any of that using high templars, the most vulnerable casters in game.
@@Leonhart_93 a caster that nukes, cloaks and snipes sound pretty good to me.
@@marlonsolis2272 That's exactly the point, it's good and since it's not easy to kill it also means it's easier to use. The original claim is that the ghost is the highest skill unit in the game, which is bulls*it 😂😂
It’s a caster with a real attack, so not only is it micro-able with the snipe ability or cloak, but it could conceivably just stand and fight against many units. Medivacs heal it, and nukes are really just late game zone or APM tasking. In all they can do so much.
Great Video :D Serral King
Serral boring? I guess that lesser brains cant keep up with the nuances, and it all seems alike.
Yeah, those three games all seemed quite alike from serrals point of view. The spell casters were missing due to a lack of ghosts. His lategame zvp is always the same as well. Amazing creepspread, spore-migration and broodlords complimenting a ground army. Lung bane counterattacks whenever his opponents is on aggression. He sure plays almost perfectly, but i‘m always rooting for his opponents. It‘s like having them overcome the final bossfight. In zvt, the terran almost always is the aggressor in the first half of the game, until it turns into a tower defense game, and once you won the war of attrition, you can take his final wave. Boring? No. Because it‘s always entertaining to see his opponents trying to win wave after wave, in different strats. But serral‘s strats are mostly the same once he gained the upperhand after the first skirmishes
@@tschabow5608 But the amazing tricks aren't, the little cool adaptions in build order, the amount of certain units is based on the situation, the positioning is adapted etc.
He is very adaptive in the little nuances, and I find it a pleasure to watch him. It is totally fine if one cant see those little things, but then you might not be the target group of highest level SC2 play. Flashy builds don't make it there for a reason.
There are at least three number one terran player in the world as well as protos and zerg
"in case you thought your computer was glitching out..." Maru, Why would you play a perfectly functioning game to give yourself the impression that the game glitches? I mean if that´s your preferred game experience just play cyberpunk 2077 or fallout 76.
:)
Only silver league cannon rushers shill for Amazon, just saying!
Banes should be twice as expensive. Zerg does NOT need banes. They have enough units to over-run everything It's just so stupid!
without banes zergs die to a bio push off 2 bases within minutes...
@@TheMHB199 man I love people who know absolutely nothing about SC2 coming in and confidently being the most wrong that a human could every hope to achieve. Its not like banelings already are somewhat cost ineffective against marines, lets make them worse cause I died once to a baneling push cause I dont know what stutter stepping is.
Answer: No, zerg is still capable of beating any race with relative ease
For those who say ghost are overpower, then u dont know what u talking about...
Roaches are what you build against ghosts, they are the most effective
38:17 is already legendary. watch it in .25 speed - thank me later!
It's later. Thank you lol
So tired of seeing whiners not understand that Terran is forced to go ghost or die. They simply cannot hold against either of the 2 races without ghost mid to late game.
Ghosts aren't OP, completely balanced.
(Ignoring TvT)
Hellbats useless, reapers useless.
hellions only for very early game then useless (and its not like you need them to fill in a gap, you can skip them and be totally fine)
thors very niche. either against massive air or mutas.
tanks only good against protoss or against roach compositions. (lings just swarm and kill them easily)
cyclones only useful against protoss proxies and otherwise mostly useless
battlecruisers useless against protoss and still niche against zerg. late game corrupter/viper just annihilates BC
Out of all 3 races terrans have the most units per game that are just never made, because they don't fit a role in a matchup or against a composition.
You see units M all the time because they work together and complement each other.
But more than anything else terrans have only 2 spellcaster units and the raven has really only 1 good spell and cant be used actively except in TvT.
All the splash damage requires sieging of units in some form.
The ghost fills in the gaps of having splash against protoss as well as countering the more numerous and generally speaking more impactful (ignoring the ghost itself) spellcaster units of zerg.
Don't get me wrong from above, I'm not saying that terran is UP either.
This game is very very well balanced pretty much across the board.
Some units are just good and others are worse but it also depends on want you need at the time.
If terran was balanced differently and ghosts were nerfed and somehing else buffed, another unit would just replace the ghosts spot.
if you want to watch the best vs the best get used to them using certain compositions.
otherwise go watch bronze league heroes :)
examples of this can be in LoL - certain heroes get picked all the time.
or in CS GO its always the same guns being used.
football nearly always use 4-2-2 or 4-3-3 formations.
basketball always the same team formats too.
every single competitive environment on earth relies upon finding what works and then using that.
that's the nature of COMPETITION
So, my takeaway from watching ghosts in a lot of pro games, and seeing your commentary about ghosts in relation to the rest of the terran arsenal. It's not that ghosts aren't a little OP (or good enough against so many things that it feels like it's hard to counter them). It's that they have to be, because 2/3 of the terran arsenal is useless. or overly situational Ghosts are pulling triple duty because a Terran comp that tries to make use of anything except [MMM, into viking/tank, into mass ghost] is probably going to lose. If not to the army the enemy currently has, to whatever they transition to next.
Fixing this would entail a comprehensive balance rewrite to make Terran a more well-rounded faction. Which is enough moving parts that getting it right would be.... difficult. To put it mildly. So we get ghosts. That are a little too good at a few too many things. Because if they weren't, Terran lategame would be hopeless.
But the granny finals..Is StarCraft going to make it through 2022? Where are our youth playing this game any more? The game is busted online, only thing left is fun commentary like yours!
lurkers are pretty broken. 3rd game made that very clear. nerf needed.
Yes, indeed, ghosts need a nerf.
Zerg, and Serral specifically, killed the competitive SC2 scene. Nobody wants to watch endless mass macro ling bane hydra flood into lurkers, once the upgrades come in Zerglings are just too damn effective as tanks and distraction and do amazing damage on a runby. With their fast reinforcement mobility and speedy production, cheap cost, and high damage, they let Zerg turn a mineral advantage into easy attrition. Mix in a few banelings and there's no Terran army that can stand up to it even with a decent (temporary) upgrade advantage. It takes so much micro just to break even, and you have to macro at the same time; far easier for Zerg. Every high level game with Serral could basically be the same game. Endless ling bane hydra floods, macro macro macro, impossible to effectively attack or trade until the map is mined out. Bad for spectators, bad for players. RIP SC2 pro scene.
Personally for me Serral is most enjoyable person to watch, its like a diamond. Everyone watch Serral just the fact he so good even to counter Korean starcraft. Looks like you are new in sc2. community