Harley-Davidson actually got away from "old school riders" like me when they started putting clothing boutiques in the dealerships 40 years ago. The new dealers snubbed us because we weren't doctors and lawyers and bankers and didn't drop $1,000 on Boutique clothing while buying a new motorcycle. They forced the franchise dealers out of business like Robison Harley-Davidson in Daytona, who didn't want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to upgrade their buildings. The old school dealers kept the old iron on the road. I'll take my 1949 Panhead, 57 Servi-car, or 68 Sportster over anything new on the showroom today. They are infinitely rebuildable as long as I can still get parts in the aftermarket.
@@seanoleary1979 Riding around on my Harley Fatboy for hours at a time most days and my four bedroom house doesn't sound too bad to me. Nice try though bub
I’m a walking example of the kind of new customer base Harley is trying to appeal to. I’m a 26 year old female, was in the market for a new Harley and personally was not impressed with the new Nightster. It looked plastic-y and lacked all the characteristics of what people love about Harley’s. The solution: BUY USED. I ended up with a 2017 sportster 48 and paid a fraction of the price…and btw I love the sound of my air-cooled v-twin EVO😍 Even if it doesn’t match up to the rev max on paper…don’t care. Harley made a big mistake killing off the sportys.
With you on that. I got 2 sporties. One is an Evo '03 carb, the other a fuel injection 883 low '09. Look like a Harley, sound like a Harley, feel like a Harley and cannot be mistaken for another make or model. Ride 'em, love 'em. 🏁🏍💨💪🏼❤️
You are completely correct, Harley shot themselves in the foot, and head...when they stopped making Sportys. I have seen already about three Chinese companies producing Sporty clones, that are up to Euro standards, which Harley said was no longer possible, as an excuse to discontinue them. They lied to us. The modern Harleys have lost the depth of real Harleys...they emit a Jap-like whirring sound, they are electronically overpopulated, they no longer have beautiful frame castings, the new Nightsters etc are hideously designed, hurting my eyes so to me the last real big twin Harleys were Shovelheads, and I have been in the Harley saddle daily since the sixties having owned twenty three of them from Flatheads, Panheads, Shovelheads, a Knucklehead that I still have since 1975, and for the past ten years a (yes) 96" Heritage that is serving me well (got her after my last Shovel was stolen here in South Africa).
I have a 20 year old Harley sitting in my garage. I have two sons; one early forties and the other late 30's. Neither have asked what I'll do with my Harley before I pass as they have no interest. That should give you an idea how a dream became real once for us and it's now fading away.
I ride a 2003 anniversary Heritage Springer softail and live it. I am 50nyrs old and could care less about navigation, stereo, cruise, abs or the new fancy tech. I just need the wind in my face, the symphony of my exhaust and the Cut of my MC on my back.
Harley-Davidson left their core customers behind in spirit long before they were forced to change anything in their products. Since the '90s, the dealerships are over-glorified monstrosities, the sales/finance people practically spit on you if you aren't shopping for a new bike, and more than half their employees don't even ride. I live in Florida, so I've been to dozens of dealerships. They are all practically the same, and they suck. Almost no one in that company lives a motorcycling-centric life. It's only about money.
I live in Washington State, notoriously short riding season. Same deal up here, kinda like walking into the mega church of plasticky newness. I have noticed there's less free coffee lately
@@GixxerFooI have such fond memories of the quaint little dealerships I use to visit, but I'm very happy for Harley's success and I enjoy going to modern, clean and spacious dealerships and making some new friends/acquaintances. I believe a positive and caring attitude goes along way to enjoying our chosen sport.
Us older riders are aging. The problem I see is that the new bikes are expensive for the younger riders trying to pay for a house and start a family. I have 2 pinhead, shovelgead, EVO, EVO sportster and 4 twin cams. I am not interested in a new harley
The young riders want to be dyna bros and they want a carbureted twin cam or evo, not the new stuff….so hd has no clue of what the younger crowd wants.
Hi 👋, They have lost their soul, I purchased my first bike around 1994, purchased a brand-new deuce in 2000, spent a lot of money on it, customise it the way I wanted it to, sadly, I had to sell it in 2019, because I had been scammed by my female ex partner, And I have been trying to find my old bike, So I approached the dealership that I bought it from, and they seem to help one minute and then turn me away the next wanting me to buy a brand-new, no way
If Harley wants to attract young riders, they need to look at what Triumph has done with their new 400s and 400x. A bike that looks authentic (not like a plasticky budget knockoff,) includes all the new tech, performs well for it's class and comes in at a price tag under $6,000!
Been riding Harleys for over 50 years. The heart and soul of it all was always the intimate connection you have with your machine. That sadly is no more.
@TheWolfsnack yes that temp is good.Being that I always put on the heavy duty gear ,the really hot riding weather does not appeal to me.I seen too many riders in Turkey riding in 50c weather wearing basically nothing .I shudder to think what state they get in when they must surely come off under the law of average.
@@John-ob7dh Good for you I know many who have dropped dead recently around age 60-70 I am nut sure if they got the clot shot or not, but I sure would like to know. I plan to do my first track day this summer at age 63
I bought my 2012 Roadking brand new. Put bars, stage 1, suspension upgrades, etc. All done in my garage. Love this bike! She has 60 thousand miles and still runs perfectly and looks old school cool.
What bothers me is that the dealers stopped working on or carrying parts for, pre 2010. It's ridiculous that you go into the dealer to get a part for 2006-2007 softtail, and they tell you that they will have to order it. Then the real bad part is that half the time is from an aftermarket company that you could have gotten the part yourself !!! Then, they mark up the part from retail, and because you ordered it from them, you feel obligated to pay them.
Totally agree! I have a 2003 Road King and my local dealer said they won’t install new tires because it’s too old. That’s how they take care of their customers.
When I see a bike dealership building that's 40-50 foot tall, I think they're saying, "It's all about us and we charge you too much money." They don't even need a sign.
Worked at a Harley dealer for about a month and a half before I had to get out of that shithole. So much scammy and scummy tactics on the sales side, and on the service side I got reamed for pointing out that a used bike that was getting sold had bald ass tires “well if the customer didn’t see them, that’s his problem”. And most of the clients were just pompous assholes. Hell they wouldn’t even touch anything older than 2000 which is a joke. Nothing like sitting at the counter at a Harley dealership and telling you I can’t work on your Harley.
They moved on from the old school long, long ago. I remember my mom bitching about the dealerships back in the late 90s. I didn't get my first HD till 2000 (1995 FLHR carb, great bike). Since then I've had an '01 FLHR TC88 carb, an '07 FLHR TC96 fi, and just bought the Icon Hydra Glide FLI w/ the M8 114. I miss the '01 most of all, put 90k miles on it in about 5 years, no issues until the end when lots of things started to need money! I love my new FLI but it does feel 'over-engineered', and lacks that rough around the edges thing that gave the older bikes character.
Harley-Davidson is having a difficult time appeasing the older customers while at the same time bringing in new riders. I'm 65, and I remember the "good old" days of simple, easy to work on motorcycles. Modern motorcycles have a slew of electronics and sensors in order to keep up with emissions regulations. Unfortunately for those of us who like to tinker, new bikes are nearly impossible to repair with all the added complexities. My issues aren't so much with HD's complex engines, but the styling just leaves me a bit perplexed. I got rid of my 2018 Heritage last year and bought a Triumph--though I still have my Evo Sportster. Right now, HD has nothing that remotely interests me.
One of the biggest problem with all this new electronic hardware & software is being able to communicate with it. An owner can’t obtain H-D Digital Technician and since everything electrical is somehow flows thru the ECU it makes almost everything require going thru dealerships to maintain your ride…
HD doesn't want old schoolers doing their own work, they can't bleed us as easily that way. I was at a bike show today and the cost of a new Harley Davidson bike was almost obscene. I will stick too my old twin cam, it's reliable and easy to work on.
They had to get away from the core customer. The core customers are buying trikes, out of riding entirely or dying. The time for Harley to innovate and progress was long overdue and with the recent competition in their class, its innovate or die. The EPA is ultimately what killed Harley. Kudos to Harley for trying to keep their key demographic happy by staying with old school technology but you can only push the old school tech, increase power and satisfy the EPA all at the same time for so long. The EPA is the one thing Harley in and of themselves have no control over, so its adapt or die now.
You said what I didn't want to say, I hate to admit it but it's true. The bikes that appeal to the younger crowd are just way out of their price range.
Me thinks at their prices it's gonna be die . Not probably right away but there just aren't enough interested in riding these days especially at the prices . Not many youngsters can afford $25,000 /$30,000 .
I own the last Harley Davidson I will ever buy. HD and I have found a fork in the road. They went one way, I've gone the other. While I have no plans in selling or even buying another motorcycle brand, I will not buy anything new from them ever again.
I miss my 1984 shovel head low rider! Sold it in 1998 ( needed money). After my kids were grown up & done with college I got a 2015 103 twin cam Low Rider( in 2017) miss my old Low Rider for the ease in maintaining it without any special tools! Still, I like the twin cam but miss my old Harley very much!
I have always been a Low Rider fan, those last years with 103 I loved that style on the low rider. Reminded me of the late 70's early 80's shovel low rider.
Bought my current bike new in '05. I'm the kind of guy that gets real attached to my machines, be they bikes, pick-ups or big trucks. By the time I got to the point I might have considered a new bike again, I couldn't find anything on HD's showroom floor that interested me for just about all the reasons you have mentioned. And now the last couple years they just don't look all that appealing to me. Guess I'm just too old school.
i just bought a black 2004 road king classic, upgrading it with the stage 1 and hydraulic cams tensioner, S&S 509 cams and everything that goes with it, couldn't be more excited, buying a good stand for detailing it, can't wait to ride it... i like old school, they look, ride and sound great!
I've rode flatheads, knuckleheads, shovel heads, Evo FXR for 21 years. I'm currently on a 2012 street glide it had 69 horsepower on the Dyno before I jacked it and Harley's aren't hardly anymore. They left they left us guys years and years ago I can't even get Harley to work on a 2012. Sad bedroom, old school is cool and not to mention. I'm 72 years old. I started this journey in 1970 and I'm still on my road. Fly fast fly free.
You are so right. Not only Harleys - all vehicles are getting more and more complicated. It is no longer possible to work on them by ourselves. That's the direction of time and development, which I don't like in any way. But The Company should at least TRY to keep their new bikes as simple as the laws allow them to do. Unfortunately they don't seem to have too much interest in this direction. A proud and glad owner of one Shovel and one Evo - since thirty years.
Ahh one thing in life that's for sure and that is change, I hate to say it but us old schoolers are just casualties of changing times all we can do is try and pass on as much knowledge as possible cause old school Harley Davidsons are going to be around for a long time 🤘
They have a lot of extras such as maps so they can sell your travel information like car manufacturers do. If connect your phone to it, all that information that is on your phone transfers over and is sold too. It’s all about money and they don’t want the public to know because of backlash.
I own a 98 fxdl, love it. Work on it, has the sound, the ride the handling. No freaking computer carb. I tuned jetted. Love my evo, don't want new harley. I am 68 this is my bike
I grew up in St Louis during the early 70s, I remember my neighbors meeting up and working on their Harleys. Harley Davidson has created a separation form owners working on their bikes. It just makes it a very different lifestyle, by making it “better” they have lost what makes owning and riding great. This every sector of our society though.
AS AN HD OWNER. YES I THINK THEY NEED TO GO BACK TO THE OLD SCHOOL MOTORCYCLE LINE UP. AT LEAST A LINE UP OF MOTORCYCLE THAT SUIT THE OLD SCHOOL RIDER. THERE'S NOTHING I SEE IN THE DEALERSHIP THAT REALLY CATCHES MY EYE. TO MAKE ME WANT TO SPEND 40.000.
I own a 98evo fatboy. As someone under thirty, the new Harleys (not the water-cooled series) are certainly appealing, but high prices and dealer attitudes tend to keep people away from them. I'm sure Harley dealers in Australia do want to sell more, but they're not dealing with old-school riders who can't get Harley wax from official Harley dealers and are being marketed to other brands. Thankfully, there are still some franchisees.Although it is harder to find the right old accessory in Australia than in the US, I will still support the evo.
It is sad to see the evo sporty go away but it was inevitable. Like you mentioned, they needed to comply with emissions and the younger riders don't want air cooled push rod engines. There is still tons of sportys on marketplace and will be available for years to come.
I saw the change back in the late 80's when every "yuppie" just HAD to have a Harley! Ive got an 81shovelhead and a 2010 Road King. When I roll up to a dealership with the shovelhead all the young techs gather around in awe of its simplicity. Or should I say....its "primitivism"!😊
I have a 2016 Ultra Limited and I’m 68. When I get to where I need another Harley it won’t be a newer one. I’m still old school and will not be moving forward (?) with Harley. Keep up the good work.
The Motor Company got away from me. My first Harley was a stock '57 Panhead, my second was a restored stock '39 Knucklehead. I now ride my '99 Heritage Springer.
The problem with all elect tech is that it is all interconnected. (Allegedly) new models of a. very popular pickup completely shut down if water gets into the taillight assemblies. The taillight sensor sends an "I'm freaking out code to the central computer, which "packs it up." First an '80s pickup was expected to go in rain or water puddles and second a shirt would blow a fuse and third fir $20 and simple tools one could fix it.
As someone who works for Harley, I’m not actually opposed to the change that is coming. The core customer base is aging out and we are seating more and more trike sales as riders can’t even lift up a road king anymore. There is no core customer base when they can’t even ride a motorcycle. Harley is changing with the times and trying to attract younger buyers, who will keep the brand alive. Don’t get me wrong. I love my Dyna, and they simply will never be another motorcycle like it, but that goes for any type of vehicle. Motorcycles cars, everything is changing with technology. With new emissions regulations and the euro seven changes to, it is literally impossible to make another motor. My only hope is that Harley retains some of its traditional styling and ergonomic characteristics like the cruiser lineup with the low riders and such so that it’s still has the look and feel field of a Harley, even though the motors are not what people truly think of as a Harley twin.
Younger buyers are not going to be Able to afford the new Harley. They made a big mistake when they stop making the sportster! A lot of older riders in my area, started riding sportsters, because of the weight of the bigger bikes.
Harley has been halfway trying to attract new riders for years, but never really committing to it. If you want to see what attracting new riders looks like, check out Triumph's new 400s and 400x "mini Bonnevilles." They look authentic, not like plasticky entry-level knockoffs, have all the modern tech, perform well for their class and are very affordable at around $5,500. They are manufactured in India, which might offend old school Harley riders. But I don't think new riders really care, as long as the bike feels high quality and authentic. Harley has always had a problem with making their entry level bikes shameful or junky. Even the venerable Sportster was derided by Harley riders as a "skirtster" or a girl's bike. What kind of young man wants to sign up for that? And the Speed models just looked like junk. If Harley wants to attract younger riders, they need to make an entry level bike that they are proud of. A bike that says: "Welcome to the club. You are one of us now." Instead of: "That's not a real Harley. You're just a poser."
95 evo low rider 04 road king...not too excited about the direction of the company after 2016. Thats a tough pill to swallow when you are at the mercy of the dealerships and cost for repairs on the M8.
It’s just a sign of the times. My father-in-law once told me that with a good mule, he could make it from Enna Sicily to Catania Sicily in two days. What mattered to him does not matter to me. What matters to me does not matter to younger generations. Yeah, some kids get it, while others don’t. Needless to say, in 1989, I made it from Palermo Sicily to Nas Sigonella in 66 minutes on my Honda V65 Saber.
They’re never going back to where they started. In my mind there’s a couple things going on here. 1. They’re trying to keep up with other brands as their market starts to shrink, with a lot of the old school harley guys laying down their gear as they get older. 2. It’s getting very difficult to make an air cooled, old school engine design that will meet constantly-rising EPA standards at a price that will sell to consumers. 3. Like any vehicle manufacturer, they’re seeing how far they can push it by making everything so complicated/expensive that it almost has to be taken to the dealer. Which is unfortunate considering a lot of them refuse to touch anything more than ten years old, and a lot of techs these days wouldn’t know what to do with a bike they couldn’t hook to a computer.
Other brands are releasing air cooled options. BMW, MotoG, Honda, Yamaha, RE, Ducati, all have air cooled options under MUCH stricter standards.The R 12 nineT is a sexy as hell, large displacement, reliable, extremely well built, legacy platform that sells for the same as a soft tail. Same for the Ducati Scrambler for a couple grand less. The EPA killed Harley as an excuse is bullshit.
They're either low compression, low hp, low trq, small displacement, etc. Bikes like the BMW has its two cylinders hanging out in the airflow, along with having a very large oil cooler. HD is at a disadvantage with its cylinder arrangement, 45 degree V, and firing order. To keep that "sound", they have to try harder. What am I missing? I'll gladly listen - as the long-time HD fan and owner I've been.
@@stratolestele7611 My overall point is that HD could engineer their way out of it like the above mentioned did. I don't think the lack of an air cooled option is the issue with sales anyway. Its the "culture", and price. Maybe air cooled would be cheaper, even more so if its easier to wrench on. There are some niche areas where they are doing OK, but I see more and more metrics. The last bike meetup I saw was 80%+ pre 2015 HDs and I would say the average age was 55+. A smaller bike meetup I went to was 90% metric and the average age was ~30+.
Still own two 1990-91 FXRs and feel privileged to have owned a rigid mount evo sportster as my first HD! But that will be (most likely) the last time I will be buying a HD. Now its all about money !!!
got my first bike late in the game about 3 years ago. im 29 years old. my bike is from 97. hands down best, most reliable, easiest to work on bike ive ever had. im almost certain ill never own another. but harley wants to make money more then they want to actually help people. i cant walk into a dealership without some jackal hounding me to buy a new bike. no thanks bro. im just here for the KD's.
I agree with everything you said. The old school guys are dying off and being replaced by a younger generation that has no interest in working on their own motorcycle. My '98 heritage looks and sounds like a real Harley and will probably end up being trashed when I'm gone.
I'm one of the old school bikers, I love wrenching my own bikes, I'm not a fan of the new Harleys but todays younger people don't want to do the things we used to consider fun. So I understand the direction HD is taking, I personally don't like it but I'm not their new customer anymore. I will just buy used 70's 80's and 90's & early 2000's bikes until the inevitable happens.
You are right about EVO being the last true Harley. Twin cams not so bad. Lots of failures tho. I like my stroked EVO. Enough power for me to smile. (always use more)
Nah, I went into the dealer yesterday and not one bike really caught my eye. The closest thing I liked was a 23 107 Street Glide and it was a basic bike. But not for $29,000. I get it change happens but doesn’t mean I have to like it. I’m 48 and currently own 5 Harleys 76 Sportster 2) 1990 Sportsters a 09 FXSTC and a 98 Heritage. There will be plenty of used bikes for years to come.
Old school customers are aging out. There are fewer new, younger riders due to fear campaigns and the fact EVERYTHING is so expensive from bikes to gear to insurance. Oh! And not to mention youngsters can't set their phones down for five minutes to notice the world around them.
I bought my bike brand new in fact they made it for me I was on waiting list for a year and a week this was in 03 I love it 😀 I will never own a new bike I don't like looks or all the bells and whistles but I am old school a bit Great show 😊
I guess HD left me in the dust years ago when prices started to go mental. I ride Flathead Shovels and and evo sportster. Bunch of Italian HD but i started riding them at 8 yrs old , im 65 now. So I've always had some thru the years. Bought and sold many and part some out.
I have the 2022 road glide ST. I literally went to the dealership right after the Jan. 2022 video release and signed papers that afternoon. It took til March to get it but now I e put 31,000 miles on it and it’s been a beast of a bike. My last one was a 2003 electraglide with the 95cu which was freaking amazing but it doesn’t hold a candle to my new bike. If I was to get one today I’d go after the CVO ST. Love it!
I love mine 22’ RGST. I did an S and S 475, bassani road rage exhaust and powervision tuner and I’m at 115 hp and 127 tq. In the last two years I’ve been on the entire west coast, the Great Lakes, and Gulf of Mexico and it’s done a terrific job. I did add a touring pack which some don’t like but I camp off of my bike so I need all the room I can get. Thank you for responding to my comment, I wait every week for Friday to watch your videos. Keep up the good work!
Purchased my Twin Cam 6 years ago and have no plans for a newer one! I'll ride my bike until one of us dies or I get to old and give it to someone deserving!
Thanks for the video! I get a kick out of reading comments like: "I hate Harley, they left me when ..." I remember in the 70's when Harley had to put thicker head gaskets on the shovelheads because the government ended leaded gas. Many thought Harley would never be able to modernize and survive Like you said they have been forced to change by government mandate, new tech and customer demand. I love the old bikes too, but Harley would not be around if they were still trying to sell only 4 speed shovelheads. As far as price...that new Superglide I saw in '76 for $3,600 would be going for over $19k in today's dollar. I'm sorry, but a Softail standard may not be as cool, but it's a better performing and more dependable ride for less than that. Part of the reason the prices have gone up is how much more is stock and just expected and taken for granted. It blows my mind how much change has happened since '76. Electronic fuel injection and ignition, anti-lock and linked brakes, infotainment systems, traction control, ride modes, and tire pressure monitoring, just to name a few. Plus way better workmanship and more premium finishes. Only a few custom bikes had a chrome or black motor back then, now they almost all do. Harley can't win with some people...They get mad when they change and others get mad when they don't change or change fast enough! 😊
Exactly! People are never happy. Everyone sings the praises of the Evo now. When the came out for the 1984 model year, bikers pissed and moaned that Harley was building them for RUBs and weekend warriors. Then can the Twin Cam. Then the M8. Now, an EVO is considered old school!
It's not hard to imagine that in November 1935 when Harley introduced the all new EL model, there was probably some guy standing there that had had been riding Harleys from the very beginning, shaking his head sadly and wondering why it was necessary to have overhead valves and a recirculating oil system. He was probably thinking that it just added more moving parts and complexity and that the Motor Company was pricing their motorcycles out of the reach of the average working man.
@@jimfischione2743 I get your point and I think the scene you imagined was quite possible. Which made me remember a photograph of the four founders of the Motor Co. beholding one of the first Knuckleheads that came fresh from the assembly line. On that photograph their faces show a mix of pride and some degree of uncertainity as if they were thinking "Have we gone too far with such machine?". I guess they were concerned with the amount of innovations of the bike and also concerned about how the market would receive the new machine. Times were very tough, the Motor Co. gave birth to the Knucklehead right in the middle of the Great Depression. Luckly for us, Harley lovers, things went pretty well (AMF years aside) and nowadays when someone push the start button to turn on a modern M8 we can tell that it belongs to a lineage initiated by the mighty Knucklehead of yore. Peace from Brazil. ✌
On the upside, HD built so many air cooled Sportsters that they will still be on the roads and available to buy used for the next 100 years. Arguably the best " build it into anything you want" platform ever produced by anyone, anywhere.
The problem is that Harley isn't making anything that customers want. The tech is outdated, underpowered and overpriced. Sales teams are snobbish, elitist, rude and off-putting. No one wants to deal with that cocktail when next door, japanese and European brands offer better performance per dollar and better attitudes.
The bad part about the new Harley’s is they come with crappy parts and are quite far behind their conpetition. All stage 2 and stage 3 things you upgrade are expensive and again the competition comes complete with that in their factory stock bikes that cost half the price.
I will keep my old school cars and old school Harley’s that I can fix in my garage with common hand tools. You can keep all the over priced crap made today.
Not many young folks want to turn wrenches. That even applies to some of the techs at the dealership. World moved on, "Hey, look at the screen on my new bike."
Rode my '91 Fatboy for almost 20 years and sold it to a guy in France (of all places!) for what I paid for it. Old Harley's are way expensive in Europe.
Give us a modern 80", single cam, 6 speed version of the old EVO that isn't over 600lbs. and cost more than a car! Working class America made Harley what it is today and now we can't afford to own one!
What’s wrong with innovation? They need to make the motorcycles young rider friendly, that’s why young people didn’t want to want to buy Harley’s if it looks like your riding your grandpas motorcycle
Service at a Harley dealer is highway robbery. If you buy a new bike you have to have the bike serviced at a dealer to keep the warranty valid. Not for sure if all Harley dealers are like the one I purchased my bike at, but when I brought it in for 1,000 mile service, I asked what it was going to cost. “Well it depends once we look at it.” In other words, they want you to sign a work order which is a blank check. My first 1,000 mile service was over $800. This was not my first rodeo; I have owned 28 motorcycles. But first time I was taken advantage of by a dealer like. Guess you never get to old to learn, though sometime it’s learning the hard way. One thing is for sure. This dealer lost a future customer.
I like going to a dealer to look at the new stuff,but I’ve got zero interest in owning one. Tons of good older used ones out there that still leave some money in the bank for mods….that you can still do yourselfThat and the day I can’t buy a bike without traction control and abs is the day I’m done riding.
02 fat boy here. New bikes with all the electric crap and movie theater size screens in front blocking the experience of being on a motorcycle. No thanks old school for me!! Everything. Cars music clothes etc etc. The brave new world sucks ! Glad I'm 60 and got to experience life when people actually gave a fuck
HD have been the McDonalds of motorcycles since the mid 80s. Charge a lot of money for a very basic product. Nostalgia and people falling for clever marketing is what keeps them going. Remember even their own CEO admitted that almost 70% of HDs profit comes from merchandise made in Asian countries.
At 62 years old, I still own three H-D models: 1994 HD Heritage Softail Classic, 2010 HD Sportster Iron 883, and 2014 HD Sportster 72. Most likely these will be the last Harleys I will ever own. The new stuff looks interesting, but personally, I prefer the "Evo" era. It was MUCH improved over the Shovelhead era. The younger generation may never understand this upgrade from back in the day. Prior to 1985, the dealerships kept drip pans under the new bikes to catch the leaking engine oil.
I would consider myself a "new age" Harley Davidson customer. I am 31 years old but they won't talk to me anymore either. Local dealers won't finance a bike to someone who owns a Corvette that financed that from a dealership and didn't miss a single payment. My credit score is good so they are just being dicks. They will be lucky to still be in business in 30 years.
23 years old….love my 96 sporty 1200. Been able to do all my own work and maintenance, I’m gonna hold onto it for a long while I think….unless I find a good deal on a 70s cb or kz/z1 LOL
Reliability that they used to have??? I started riding in 1969. I myself never owned a Harley , but a few of my riding buddies did. They did not own them for long. They got tired of fixing them all the time and sometimes in the middle of nowhere. Also, they leaked oil all the time. My friends turned to BMW.s, Moto Guzzis, And Hondas and other reliable metric bikes. They wanted a reliable machine that they did not have to work on all the time. Just change the oil, top up with fuel, and go. Oh yes, check the tire pressure. I myself rode a 1972 Moto Guzzi for 75,000 miles. The only reason I parked it was because I got a deal on a 1983 Honda Gold wing cruiser that I could not turn down. I put just over 100,000 miles on it without any breakdowns at all. Just had to do routine maintenance. Nobody in my group ever went back to a Hardley Abelson. Today at 73, am still riding with some of my old riding buddies that are still around. On a Honda, ofcourse. It's a good thing they don't make Harleys like they used to. As a matter of fact, Harley still has a reliability problem, but not as bad as before. Just my two cents.
I am on Harley #5. The Milwaukee 8 114 is simply great. And yeah Im 71 and remember the small independent dealers. The personal connection is completely gone unfortunately. I think Harley screwed the pooch when they stopped offering beginner bikes like my Sprint 250.
I get everyone throws rocks at the little bikes with just Harley-Davidson on the tank cause it's not a big air cooled Vtwin. The whole point is to get someone new on a bike with Harley-Davidson on the tank and make that stick in their mind.
Road King Special (adding a conv. windshield) or Heritage. Upcharging for black on any H-D is criminal. That grey looks like a highly buffed out primer coating w/ clear sprayed on imo.
The styling is well phugly. I am all for new looks but they are missing the mark on all their new offerings. I don't think Harley Davidson realizes how many young folk are old school at heart these days.
Strangely enough, what gives me hope (concerning the younger generation), is my 27 year old coworker who has gotten into late 70s honda choppers. He's got a couple of them now and constantly changing things up to see what works for him. He asks me for advice on old school history as I'm 61 and ride a 90 FXLR and a 98 FXD.
At 71 I guess I can say that I'm "Old School" so here's my take on the new Harleys vs. the old ones. First off, the York Penn. plant was the best thing that the factory did as the tighter tolerances allowed them to build the Evo motor which was a long way from the shovelhead that they contued to produce long after it was competitive. As usual, there was a lot of bitching and moaning about how Harley had abandoned the Troublehead but I welcomed the oil tight, reliable, and more powerful motor. The twin cam had a sketchy start due to the cam chain set up and weak cam bearings but when that got sorted they turned out to be a reasonably solid motor. Now Harley seems to be playing the bigger is better game that the Japanese makers did in the '70s resulting in the 100 hp or so that you see today. The problem is that most people have very little experience with a 600lb, high hp bike. Those of us that started on lower powered bikes got a chance to figure them out before they got to the holy sh*t stage. Yes, the new Harleys handle a lot better than the old ones but weight and Newton's First Law of Motion still applies. Now we're looking at baggers with more electronics than Apollo 1 took to space. Granted the latest ones have improved a lot over the early stuff but you're still going to have to trailer that thing to the dealer if it goes south. On the other hand, although I have fixed more than one bike on the side of the road, I can't say that I enjoyed it. Better electrics get my vote. Admttedly the new Harleys are better than the old ones in pretty musch every aspect but there's always a trade off when things change and there's a few things that have gone by the way. Like the midnight sessions in the garage where half a dozen guys and a few dozen beers would conspire to get a bro's bike running for the next day's run. Or how back then you wouldn't think of passing a guy on the side of the road without stopping to lend a hand. I still remember when a shop or even a dealership would put their scheduled work aside to get you back on the road if you were far from home. I guess it comes down to the fact that when our bikes weren't so dependable, our fellow bikers were. These days, you can hardly get anyone to take a Sunday ride with you without booking a day next month. The fellowship of bikers came from the days when we depended on each other as a matter of course and it took some of the risk out of heading out to parts unknown. Riders now refer to being part of a lifestyle but the truth is they'll never understand what that was about. Like the lady sang, "You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone." t
I just purchased my first Harley Davidson last year. A 2023 117 Breakout. Couldn't be happier. Beautiful bike, plenty of power. Yeah, it was expensive, but we only have this one life to live, and I'm not getting any younger. I've wanted a Harley since I was 12 years old, I'm 41 now. Harley has been growing and evolving like the rest of us.
A turning point, was when The Motor Co. hired two CEOs, who didn't even ride motorcycles! Talk about out of touch! IDK, the M-8s have some strangely engineered parts. What's up with the external oil line, that is routed strangely? As if, doing top end work, requires removing far more external bits and pieces. Seems like engineers are designing motors to be more complex to disassemble, on purpose, to force do it your selfers, to have their bikes serviced at the Dealerships. I see greed playing a factor these days. The goal of more businesses, it seems, is to see how much MORE they can gouge out of the average consumer. Formerly, "durable goods" are no longer so. Like, planned obsolescence is the new business motto, or mantra. Ugh!
I have put a mile or two on a Harley. Pan Head to Twin Cam 103. Now have a 01 88 TC (carb) and 1998 80 EVO soft tail. Maybe age or hopefully wisdom, I do not need big speed or bling. I just want a bike I know I can throw a leg over and it will go with me for a few hours or few weeks on the road. These two bikes do that for me so I am happy and I got back to where I was two decades ago, riding and owning a bike I really know and enjoy. If you know what I mean, you know what I mean!!! Maybe your Chanel should shift to things about Pans, Shovels and Evos.
I own a Roadster (as you know from my comments). Put some Apes on at the Dealership (didn't want to play with the wires for a day). Test rode a Softail. I will say I was AMAZED at how smooth it was and it had UNLIMITED POWER. I took it up to 90mph in no time. Probably not simple to fix anything. People call the BASE color "CUEBALL PRIMER".
And you know why all those digital gauges etc are there? BECAUSE THEY'RE CHEAPER TO PRODUCE AND MAKES MORE PROFIT. I'm a professional mechanic for all my life, and all those electronics are a problem just waiting to happen.
Just went to a motorcycle tradeshow. Every bike was half the price of a harley...if BMW had been there they might have had some competition. This should tell you everything that you need to know who they see as their customer now
I feel like Harley-Davidson has been that way for years, Harley and Indian are the only ones in the big twin market now though. Kawasaki still has a few big twin, it's awesome to see BMW making a run at the big cruiser market with their engine.
There is a huge used bike market out there, Decent low mile evos & twin cams are pretty cheap, well under 10k, shovels if you want them. Pan & Knuckle you gonna pay more than a new bike. But that.s the price for being independent, dealer free & self sufficient & of coarse looking cool.
If you were getting a new Harley-Davidson off the show room floor today what would you get?
Wanted the anniversary heritage
I would get depressed.
Softail standard would be cool too
I got the Heritage
@serafinsilva1055 I could never get rid of my evo heritage but that anniversary heritage was beautiful!
Harley-Davidson actually got away from "old school riders" like me when they started putting clothing boutiques in the dealerships 40 years ago. The new dealers snubbed us because we weren't doctors and lawyers and bankers and didn't drop $1,000 on Boutique clothing while buying a new motorcycle. They forced the franchise dealers out of business like Robison Harley-Davidson in Daytona, who didn't want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to upgrade their buildings. The old school dealers kept the old iron on the road. I'll take my 1949 Panhead, 57 Servi-car, or 68 Sportster over anything new on the showroom today. They are infinitely rebuildable as long as I can still get parts in the aftermarket.
True, end of the world, Armageddon, electric ⚡️ shock pulse beats all good cars, that old evolution would be good
Hahahahahahahahahaha
I far prefer the new Harley's
But i am still waiting for a Street Glide with a liquid cooled engine.
I agree.
No one cares about old school riders like you. Go sit down and be quiet!
Getting harder and harder to walk into a dealership and get parts for my 99 EGC. Good thing there's strong aftermarket availability.
I'll be turning 70. Soon. The older I get the more I want to go back to the good days.
I am 82 on a 2002 FLSTF.My last Bike of any sort.
Reality check: You're not getting any younger and the good old days weren't that great.
@@seanoleary1979 Telling us you are younger than 30 without telling us you're younger than 30
@@cbussey4676 ...isn't it easy to see why you haven't gotten very far in life?
@@seanoleary1979 Riding around on my Harley Fatboy for hours at a time most days and my four bedroom house doesn't sound too bad to me. Nice try though bub
I’m a walking example of the kind of new customer base Harley is trying to appeal to. I’m a 26 year old female, was in the market for a new Harley and personally was not impressed with the new Nightster. It looked plastic-y and lacked all the characteristics of what people love about Harley’s. The solution: BUY USED. I ended up with a 2017 sportster 48 and paid a fraction of the price…and btw I love the sound of my air-cooled v-twin EVO😍 Even if it doesn’t match up to the rev max on paper…don’t care. Harley made a big mistake killing off the sportys.
With you on that. I got 2 sporties. One is an Evo '03 carb, the other a fuel injection 883 low '09. Look like a Harley, sound like a Harley, feel like a Harley and cannot be mistaken for another make or model. Ride 'em, love 'em.
🏁🏍💨💪🏼❤️
You are completely correct, Harley shot themselves in the foot, and head...when they stopped making Sportys.
I have seen already about three Chinese companies producing Sporty clones, that are up to Euro standards, which Harley said was no longer possible, as an excuse to discontinue them.
They lied to us.
The modern Harleys have lost the depth of real Harleys...they emit a Jap-like whirring sound, they are electronically overpopulated, they no longer have beautiful frame castings, the new Nightsters etc are hideously designed, hurting my eyes so to me the last real big twin Harleys were Shovelheads, and I have been in the Harley saddle daily since the sixties having owned twenty three of them from Flatheads, Panheads, Shovelheads, a Knucklehead that I still have since 1975, and for the past ten years a (yes) 96" Heritage that is serving me well (got her after my last Shovel was stolen here in South Africa).
I don't blame you....
My first bike was a 2000 Sportster 1200C. Loved the sound of that air cooled sportster evo engine.
A-fucking-men. Evo Sportys were the best. Harley fucked up big time.
I have a 20 year old Harley sitting in my garage. I have two sons; one early forties and the other late 30's. Neither have asked what I'll do with my Harley before I pass as they have no interest. That should give you an idea how a dream became real once for us and it's now fading away.
If you live near Charlotte NC I'll take that Harley off your hands😊. I promise it will be loved and you'll live on through the ride
@@joogullae3456 She's 22 years old with 12K and never been dropped. Not sure she wants to depart from me yet but thanks anyway.
@@rogerbec5766 sounds like it's where it belongs sir..
I ride a 2003 anniversary Heritage Springer softail and live it. I am 50nyrs old and could care less about navigation, stereo, cruise, abs or the new fancy tech. I just need the wind in my face, the symphony of my exhaust and the Cut of my MC on my back.
I ride an 18 road king and like you, I am not paying for crap I don't want, TV, radio, GPS this and that!
Got one in Gun Metal. I concur. The wind and the motor is my music. Screw the rest
Harley-Davidson left their core customers behind in spirit long before they were forced to change anything in their products.
Since the '90s, the dealerships are over-glorified monstrosities, the sales/finance people practically spit on you if you aren't shopping for a new bike, and more than half their employees don't even ride.
I live in Florida, so I've been to dozens of dealerships. They are all practically the same, and they suck. Almost no one in that company lives a motorcycling-centric life. It's only about money.
That's just it, they ran out all the ma and pa dealers in favor of these big loud dealers with blaring music and free beer on bike night.
I live in Washington State, notoriously short riding season. Same deal up here, kinda like walking into the mega church of plasticky newness. I have noticed there's less free coffee lately
@@GixxerFooI have such fond memories of the quaint little dealerships I use to visit, but I'm very happy for Harley's success and I enjoy going to modern, clean and spacious dealerships and making some new friends/acquaintances. I believe a positive and caring attitude goes along way to enjoying our chosen sport.
Hahahaha
Us older riders are aging. The problem I see is that the new bikes are expensive for the younger riders trying to pay for a house and start a family. I have 2 pinhead, shovelgead, EVO, EVO sportster and 4 twin cams. I am not interested in a new harley
The young riders want to be dyna bros and they want a carbureted twin cam or evo, not the new stuff….so hd has no clue of what the younger crowd wants.
Besides the new M8 Harleys are having defects showing up already . Plus the new M8's don't even SOUND like a real Harley !
Hi 👋, They have lost their soul, I purchased my first bike around 1994, purchased a brand-new deuce in 2000, spent a lot of money on it, customise it the way I wanted it to, sadly, I had to sell it in 2019, because I had been scammed by my female ex partner, And I have been trying to find my old bike, So I approached the dealership that I bought it from, and they seem to help one minute and then turn me away the next wanting me to buy a brand-new, no way
Wow... you're REALLY into poorly designed technologically stunted fossils!
If Harley wants to attract young riders, they need to look at what Triumph has done with their new 400s and 400x. A bike that looks authentic (not like a plasticky budget knockoff,) includes all the new tech, performs well for it's class and comes in at a price tag under $6,000!
Been riding Harleys for over 50 years. The heart and soul of it all was always the intimate connection you have with your machine. That sadly is no more.
What kind of intimate connection can you have with a poorly designed technologically stunted fossil - even in the 1970s?
You really do lose the feel with the new bikes.
If you want an old School HD buy a used one. There are so many HD owners that are getting too old to ride look for used HD's .
That ain't true of me .been on All sorts of bikes since 58.On 1st Harley in 89 .Now on my last one at age 82 ( a 2002 FLSTF)
@@John-ob7dh 73 here....reasonably healthy and weather permiotting daily rider of a 93 FXDL.
@TheWolfsnack yes that temp is good.Being that I always put on the heavy duty gear ,the really hot riding weather does not appeal to me.I seen too many riders in Turkey riding in 50c weather wearing basically nothing .I shudder to think what state they get in when they must surely come off under the law of average.
@@John-ob7dh Good for you I know many who have dropped dead recently around age 60-70 I am nut sure if they got the clot shot or not, but I sure would like to know. I plan to do my first track day this summer at age 63
@mikeskidmore6754 Well done on that at, that great age .lol
Only funning.
Ma made 95 Dad made just off 100 .So hope for me yet.
Losing is the wrong word, HD has LOST the old school. I'm glad the aftermarket keeps the old school rolling
I bought my 2012 Roadking brand new. Put bars, stage 1, suspension upgrades, etc. All done in my garage. Love this bike! She has 60 thousand miles and still runs perfectly and looks old school cool.
A twin cam road king isn’t old school cool. Old bikes stopped at evo regardless of what you might think
I'm still riding my 1996 Evo
Totally agree, old school Evo's all the way. Simple, reliable, and easy to work on.
✌️😎🇦🇺🍻
I had 96 evo, i regret selling it.
I've got an 87. Love it.
99 Evo powered night train and loving it
Love my '96 FLSTN Heritage Softail Special!
What bothers me is that the dealers stopped working on or carrying parts for, pre 2010. It's ridiculous that you go into the dealer to get a part for 2006-2007 softtail, and they tell you that they will have to order it. Then the real bad part is that half the time is from an aftermarket company that you could have gotten the part yourself !!! Then, they mark up the part from retail, and because you ordered it from them, you feel obligated to pay them.
It's getting worse, they are discontinuing critical electrical parts on the twin cam bikes. Not a huge deal BUT, the aftermarket hasn't caught up yet.
Totally agree! I have a 2003 Road King and my local dealer said they won’t install new tires because it’s too old. That’s how they take care of their customers.
My local HD dealer installed new tires, brakes, rotors, on my brothers 2000 Roadking last fall, He was good too go @@markwhitney9175
Hell, I went to get the little door shutters that go in lowers on my 16 Road Glide Ultra and they had order those!
Screw the dealer I'd much rather support my local independent shop.
There will ALWAYS be a choice whether a person wants old school or new tech; there are literally millions of bikes out there to choose from.
When I see a bike dealership building that's 40-50 foot tall, I think they're saying, "It's all about us and we charge you too much money." They don't even need a sign.
I miss seeing your warped plywood shelf. That was old school!
Worked at a Harley dealer for about a month and a half before I had to get out of that shithole. So much scammy and scummy tactics on the sales side, and on the service side I got reamed for pointing out that a used bike that was getting sold had bald ass tires “well if the customer didn’t see them, that’s his problem”. And most of the clients were just pompous assholes. Hell they wouldn’t even touch anything older than 2000 which is a joke. Nothing like sitting at the counter at a Harley dealership and telling you I can’t work on your Harley.
I wonder what the value of these newer bikes will be when they get on in years, and start needing regular repair work. It'll be expensive, no doubt.
I can remember going into the Harley showroom back in the '60's and seeing oil pans sitting up under brand new bikes.
They moved on from the old school long, long ago. I remember my mom bitching about the dealerships back in the late 90s. I didn't get my first HD till 2000 (1995 FLHR carb, great bike). Since then I've had an '01 FLHR TC88 carb, an '07 FLHR TC96 fi, and just bought the Icon Hydra Glide FLI w/ the M8 114. I miss the '01 most of all, put 90k miles on it in about 5 years, no issues until the end when lots of things started to need money! I love my new FLI but it does feel 'over-engineered', and lacks that rough around the edges thing that gave the older bikes character.
Harley-Davidson is having a difficult time appeasing the older customers while at the same time bringing in new riders. I'm 65, and I remember the "good old" days of simple, easy to work on motorcycles. Modern motorcycles have a slew of electronics and sensors in order to keep up with emissions regulations. Unfortunately for those of us who like to tinker, new bikes are nearly impossible to repair with all the added complexities. My issues aren't so much with HD's complex engines, but the styling just leaves me a bit perplexed. I got rid of my 2018 Heritage last year and bought a Triumph--though I still have my Evo Sportster. Right now, HD has nothing that remotely interests me.
I think you struck a nerve with this one, over a thousand comments. Well done lad!
One of the biggest problem with all this new electronic hardware & software is being able to communicate with it. An owner can’t obtain H-D Digital Technician and since everything electrical is somehow flows thru the ECU it makes almost everything require going thru dealerships to maintain your ride…
Thats where they have you by the balls/$
HD doesn't want old schoolers doing their own work, they can't bleed us as easily that way. I was at a bike show today and the cost of a new Harley Davidson bike was almost obscene. I will stick too my old twin cam, it's reliable and easy to work on.
They had to get away from the core customer. The core customers are buying trikes, out of riding entirely or dying. The time for Harley to innovate and progress was long overdue and with the recent competition in their class, its innovate or die. The EPA is ultimately what killed Harley. Kudos to Harley for trying to keep their key demographic happy by staying with old school technology but you can only push the old school tech, increase power and satisfy the EPA all at the same time for so long. The EPA is the one thing Harley in and of themselves have no control over, so its adapt or die now.
You said what I didn't want to say, I hate to admit it but it's true. The bikes that appeal to the younger crowd are just way out of their price range.
@@GixxerFooNobody under 40 with a family can really afford a $35,000 motorcycle.
Me thinks at their prices it's gonna be die . Not probably right away but there just aren't enough interested in riding these days especially at the prices . Not many youngsters can afford $25,000 /$30,000 .
I own the last Harley Davidson I will ever buy. HD and I have found a fork in the road. They went one way, I've gone the other.
While I have no plans in selling or even buying another motorcycle brand, I will not buy anything new from them ever again.
Especially when there still alot of older bikes to be had @ affordable prices and will always be.@@wiscoutvadventures6403
I miss my 1984 shovel head low rider! Sold it in 1998 ( needed money). After my kids were grown up & done with college I got a 2015 103 twin cam Low Rider( in 2017) miss my old Low Rider for the ease in maintaining it without any special tools! Still, I like the twin cam but miss my old Harley very much!
I have always been a Low Rider fan, those last years with 103 I loved that style on the low rider. Reminded me of the late 70's early 80's shovel low rider.
Bought my current bike new in '05. I'm the kind of guy that gets real attached to my machines, be they bikes, pick-ups or big trucks. By the time I got to the point I might have considered a new bike again, I couldn't find anything on HD's showroom floor that interested me for just about all the reasons you have mentioned. And now the last couple years they just don't look all that appealing to me. Guess I'm just too old school.
i just bought a black 2004 road king classic, upgrading it with the stage 1 and hydraulic cams tensioner, S&S 509 cams and everything that goes with it, couldn't be more excited, buying a good stand for detailing it, can't wait to ride it... i like old school, they look, ride and sound great!
I've rode flatheads, knuckleheads, shovel heads, Evo FXR for 21 years. I'm currently on a 2012 street glide it had 69 horsepower on the Dyno before I jacked it and Harley's aren't hardly anymore. They left they left us guys years and years ago I can't even get Harley to work on a 2012. Sad bedroom, old school is cool and not to mention. I'm 72 years old. I started this journey in 1970 and I'm still on my road. Fly fast fly free.
You are so right. Not only Harleys - all vehicles are getting more and more complicated. It is no longer possible to work on them by ourselves. That's the direction of time and development, which I don't like in any way. But The Company should at least TRY to keep their new bikes as simple as the laws allow them to do. Unfortunately they don't seem to have too much interest in this direction.
A proud and glad owner of one Shovel and one Evo - since thirty years.
Ahh one thing in life that's for sure and that is change, I hate to say it but us old schoolers are just casualties of changing times all we can do is try and pass on as much knowledge as possible cause old school Harley Davidsons are going to be around for a long time 🤘
None of out old school knowledge is going to help anybody fix these new bikes.😂
They have a lot of extras such as maps so they can sell your travel information like car manufacturers do. If connect your phone to it, all that information that is on your phone transfers over and is sold too. It’s all about money and they don’t want the public to know because of backlash.
I own a 98 fxdl, love it. Work on it, has the sound, the ride the handling. No freaking computer carb. I tuned jetted. Love my evo, don't want new harley. I am 68 this is my bike
I grew up in St Louis during the early 70s, I remember my neighbors meeting up and working on their Harleys. Harley Davidson has created a separation form owners working on their bikes. It just makes it a very different lifestyle, by making it “better” they have lost what makes owning and riding great. This every sector of our society though.
AS AN HD OWNER. YES I THINK THEY NEED TO GO BACK TO THE OLD SCHOOL MOTORCYCLE LINE UP. AT LEAST A LINE UP OF MOTORCYCLE THAT SUIT THE OLD SCHOOL RIDER. THERE'S NOTHING I SEE IN THE DEALERSHIP THAT REALLY CATCHES MY EYE. TO MAKE ME WANT TO SPEND 40.000.
All caps….Really…?
I own a 98evo fatboy. As someone under thirty, the new Harleys (not the water-cooled series) are certainly appealing, but high prices and dealer attitudes tend to keep people away from them. I'm sure Harley dealers in Australia do want to sell more, but they're not dealing with old-school riders who can't get Harley wax from official Harley dealers and are being marketed to other brands. Thankfully, there are still some franchisees.Although it is harder to find the right old accessory in Australia than in the US, I will still support the evo.
The more time goes on the more I love my 1985 FXRS and my 1996 Ultra Classic Electra Glide.
It is sad to see the evo sporty go away but it was inevitable. Like you mentioned, they needed to comply with emissions and the younger riders don't want air cooled push rod engines. There is still tons of sportys on marketplace and will be available for years to come.
I saw the change back in the late 80's when every "yuppie" just HAD to have a Harley!
Ive got an 81shovelhead and a 2010 Road King.
When I roll up to a dealership with the shovelhead all the young techs gather around in awe of its simplicity. Or should I say....its "primitivism"!😊
I have a 2016 Ultra Limited and I’m 68. When I get to where I need another Harley it won’t be a newer one. I’m still old school and will not be moving forward (?) with Harley. Keep up the good work.
The Motor Company got away from me. My first Harley was a stock '57 Panhead, my second was a restored stock '39 Knucklehead. I now ride my '99 Heritage Springer.
Those Springers are just timeless, I would imagine it's hard to find anyone in a dealer that knows how to tune and service a Springer these days.
The problem with all elect tech is that it is all interconnected. (Allegedly) new models of a. very popular pickup completely shut down if water gets into the taillight assemblies. The taillight sensor sends an "I'm freaking out code to the central computer, which "packs it up." First an '80s pickup was expected to go in rain or water puddles and second a shirt would blow a fuse and third fir $20 and simple tools one could fix it.
BIG G'day GixxerFoo from Down Under 🇦🇺
Love all you do & always on-top of the GAME💪🖤🧡🖤💪
May all your days be Harley days🖤🧡🖤
Safe travels 🙏♥️🐾🐾🇦🇺
Thank you!! Safe travels to you as well!!
As someone who works for Harley, I’m not actually opposed to the change that is coming. The core customer base is aging out and we are seating more and more trike sales as riders can’t even lift up a road king anymore. There is no core customer base when they can’t even ride a motorcycle. Harley is changing with the times and trying to attract younger buyers, who will keep the brand alive. Don’t get me wrong. I love my Dyna, and they simply will never be another motorcycle like it, but that goes for any type of vehicle. Motorcycles cars, everything is changing with technology. With new emissions regulations and the euro seven changes to, it is literally impossible to make another motor. My only hope is that Harley retains some of its traditional styling and ergonomic characteristics like the cruiser lineup with the low riders and such so that it’s still has the look and feel field of a Harley, even though the motors are not what people truly think of as a Harley twin.
Younger buyers are not going to be Able to afford the new Harley. They made a big mistake when they stop making the sportster! A lot of older riders in my area, started riding sportsters, because of the weight of the bigger bikes.
@@robertboggs2257 idk man still got a lot of people buying them
Harley has been halfway trying to attract new riders for years, but never really committing to it. If you want to see what attracting new riders looks like, check out Triumph's new 400s and 400x "mini Bonnevilles." They look authentic, not like plasticky entry-level knockoffs, have all the modern tech, perform well for their class and are very affordable at around $5,500. They are manufactured in India, which might offend old school Harley riders. But I don't think new riders really care, as long as the bike feels high quality and authentic. Harley has always had a problem with making their entry level bikes shameful or junky. Even the venerable Sportster was derided by Harley riders as a "skirtster" or a girl's bike. What kind of young man wants to sign up for that? And the Speed models just looked like junk. If Harley wants to attract younger riders, they need to make an entry level bike that they are proud of. A bike that says: "Welcome to the club. You are one of us now." Instead of: "That's not a real Harley. You're just a poser."
95 evo low rider
04 road king...not too excited about the direction of the company after 2016.
Thats a tough pill to swallow when you are at the mercy of the dealerships and cost for repairs on the M8.
It’s just a sign of the times. My father-in-law once told me that with a good mule, he could make it from Enna Sicily to Catania Sicily in two days. What mattered to him does not matter to me. What matters to me does not matter to younger generations. Yeah, some kids get it, while others don’t. Needless to say, in 1989, I made it from Palermo Sicily to Nas Sigonella in 66 minutes on my Honda V65 Saber.
Times are for sure changing when it comes to bikes, I'm just thankful there are still some younger ones interested in riding at all!
They’re never going back to where they started. In my mind there’s a couple things going on here. 1. They’re trying to keep up with other brands as their market starts to shrink, with a lot of the old school harley guys laying down their gear as they get older. 2. It’s getting very difficult to make an air cooled, old school engine design that will meet constantly-rising EPA standards at a price that will sell to consumers. 3. Like any vehicle manufacturer, they’re seeing how far they can push it by making everything so complicated/expensive that it almost has to be taken to the dealer. Which is unfortunate considering a lot of them refuse to touch anything more than ten years old, and a lot of techs these days wouldn’t know what to do with a bike they couldn’t hook to a computer.
Other brands are releasing air cooled options. BMW, MotoG, Honda, Yamaha, RE, Ducati, all have air cooled options under MUCH stricter standards.The R 12 nineT is a sexy as hell, large displacement, reliable, extremely well built, legacy platform that sells for the same as a soft tail. Same for the Ducati Scrambler for a couple grand less. The EPA killed Harley as an excuse is bullshit.
They're either low compression, low hp, low trq, small displacement, etc. Bikes like the BMW has its two cylinders hanging out in the airflow, along with having a very large oil cooler. HD is at a disadvantage with its cylinder arrangement, 45 degree V, and firing order. To keep that "sound", they have to try harder.
What am I missing? I'll gladly listen - as the long-time HD fan and owner I've been.
@@stratolestele7611 My overall point is that HD could engineer their way out of it like the above mentioned did. I don't think the lack of an air cooled option is the issue with sales anyway. Its the "culture", and price. Maybe air cooled would be cheaper, even more so if its easier to wrench on. There are some niche areas where they are doing OK, but I see more and more metrics. The last bike meetup I saw was 80%+ pre 2015 HDs and I would say the average age was 55+. A smaller bike meetup I went to was 90% metric and the average age was ~30+.
Still own two 1990-91 FXRs and feel privileged to have owned a rigid mount evo sportster as my first HD! But that will be (most likely) the last time I will be buying a HD. Now its all about money !!!
got my first bike late in the game about 3 years ago. im 29 years old. my bike is from 97. hands down best, most reliable, easiest to work on bike ive ever had. im almost certain ill never own another. but harley wants to make money more then they want to actually help people. i cant walk into a dealership without some jackal hounding me to buy a new bike. no thanks bro. im just here for the KD's.
I agree with everything you said. The old school guys are dying off and being replaced by a younger generation that has no interest in working on their own motorcycle. My '98 heritage looks and sounds like a real Harley and will probably end up being trashed when I'm gone.
I'm one of the old school bikers, I love wrenching my own bikes, I'm not a fan of the new Harleys but todays younger people don't want to do the things we used to consider fun. So I understand the direction HD is taking, I personally don't like it but I'm not their new customer anymore. I will just buy used 70's 80's and 90's & early 2000's bikes until the inevitable happens.
You are right about EVO being the last true Harley. Twin cams not so bad. Lots of failures tho. I like my stroked EVO. Enough power for me to smile. (always use more)
Nah, I went into the dealer yesterday and not one bike really caught my eye. The closest thing I liked was a 23 107 Street Glide and it was a basic bike. But not for $29,000. I get it change happens but doesn’t mean I have to like it. I’m 48 and currently own 5 Harleys 76 Sportster 2) 1990 Sportsters a 09 FXSTC and a 98 Heritage. There will be plenty of used bikes for years to come.
Old school customers are aging out. There are fewer new, younger riders due to fear campaigns and the fact EVERYTHING is so expensive from bikes to gear to insurance. Oh! And not to mention youngsters can't set their phones down for five minutes to notice the world around them.
I sold a 1996 Super Glide and bought a 2019 Road King. I regret selling the Super Glide.
I seen the upcharge for black, I was like WTF!
I just bought a low mileage 2021 Sportster 48. Nothing else at the HD showroom got me excited.
Good choice! I sure miss the 48 and the 72, those bikes have some character!
I bought my bike brand new in fact they made it for me I was on waiting list for a year and a week this was in 03 I love it 😀 I will never own a new bike I don't like looks or all the bells and whistles but I am old school a bit Great show 😊
That's awesome to hear!! Hang onto to that bike, they ain't gonna make anymore like it soon! Thanks for watching!!
I guess HD left me in the dust years ago when prices started to go mental. I ride Flathead Shovels and and evo sportster. Bunch of Italian HD but i started riding them at 8 yrs old , im 65 now. So I've always had some thru the years. Bought and sold many and part some out.
I have the 2022 road glide ST. I literally went to the dealership right after the Jan. 2022 video release and signed papers that afternoon. It took til March to get it but now I e put 31,000 miles on it and it’s been a beast of a bike.
My last one was a 2003 electraglide with the 95cu which was freaking amazing but it doesn’t hold a candle to my new bike.
If I was to get one today I’d go after the CVO ST. Love it!
I would LOVE to have an ST myself, that new Road Glide ST is pretty serious and it's got some power right out of the box!
I love mine 22’ RGST. I did an S and S 475, bassani road rage exhaust and powervision tuner and I’m at 115 hp and 127 tq. In the last two years I’ve been on the entire west coast, the Great Lakes, and Gulf of Mexico and it’s done a terrific job.
I did add a touring pack which some don’t like but I camp off of my bike so I need all the room I can get.
Thank you for responding to my comment, I wait every week for Friday to watch your videos. Keep up the good work!
Purchased my Twin Cam 6 years ago and have no plans for a newer one! I'll ride my bike until one of us dies or I get to old and give it to someone deserving!
Thanks for the video!
I get a kick out of reading comments like: "I hate Harley, they left me when ..."
I remember in the 70's when Harley had to put thicker head gaskets on the shovelheads because the government ended leaded gas. Many thought Harley would never be able to modernize and survive Like you said they have been forced to change by government mandate, new tech and customer demand. I love the old bikes too, but Harley would not be around if they were still trying to sell only 4 speed shovelheads.
As far as price...that new Superglide I saw in '76 for $3,600 would be going for over $19k in today's dollar. I'm sorry, but a Softail standard may not be as cool, but it's a better performing and more dependable ride for less than that. Part of the reason the prices have gone up is how much more is stock and just expected and taken for granted. It blows my mind how much change has happened since '76. Electronic fuel injection and ignition, anti-lock and linked brakes, infotainment systems, traction control, ride modes, and tire pressure monitoring, just to name a few. Plus way better workmanship and more premium finishes. Only a few custom bikes had a chrome or black motor back then, now they almost all do. Harley can't win with some people...They get mad when they change and others get mad when they don't change or change fast enough! 😊
Exactly! People are never happy. Everyone sings the praises of the Evo now. When the came out for the 1984 model year, bikers pissed and moaned that Harley was building them for RUBs and weekend warriors. Then can the Twin Cam. Then the M8. Now, an EVO is considered old school!
@@jimfischione2743
And, before that, Then came Bronson.
Just a little joke. 😉
Peace.✌
This. All of this.
It's not hard to imagine that in November 1935 when Harley introduced the all new EL model, there was probably some guy standing there that had had been riding Harleys from the very beginning, shaking his head sadly and wondering why it was necessary to have overhead valves and a recirculating oil system. He was probably thinking that it just added more moving parts and complexity and that the Motor Company was pricing their motorcycles out of the reach of the average working man.
@@jimfischione2743
I get your point and I think the scene you imagined was quite possible.
Which made me remember a photograph of the four founders of the Motor Co. beholding one of the first Knuckleheads that came fresh from the assembly line. On that photograph their faces show a mix of pride and some degree of uncertainity as if they were thinking "Have we gone too far with such machine?".
I guess they were concerned with the amount of innovations of the bike and also concerned about how the market would receive the new machine. Times were very tough, the Motor Co. gave birth to the Knucklehead right in the middle of the Great Depression.
Luckly for us, Harley lovers, things went pretty well (AMF years aside) and nowadays when someone push the start button to turn on a modern M8 we can tell that it belongs to a lineage initiated by the mighty Knucklehead of yore.
Peace from Brazil. ✌
On the upside, HD built so many air cooled Sportsters that they will still be on the roads and available to buy used for the next 100 years. Arguably the best " build it into anything you want" platform ever produced by anyone, anywhere.
The problem is that Harley isn't making anything that customers want. The tech is outdated, underpowered and overpriced.
Sales teams are snobbish, elitist, rude and off-putting. No one wants to deal with that cocktail when next door, japanese and European brands offer better performance per dollar and better attitudes.
The bad part about the new Harley’s is they come with crappy parts and are quite far behind their conpetition. All stage 2 and stage 3 things you upgrade are expensive and again the competition comes complete with that in their factory stock bikes that cost half the price.
I will keep my old school cars and old school Harley’s that I can fix in my garage with common hand tools. You can keep all the over priced crap made today.
Not many young folks want to turn wrenches. That even applies to some of the techs at the dealership. World moved on, "Hey, look at the screen on my new bike."
Rode my '91 Fatboy for almost 20 years and sold it to a guy in France (of all places!) for what I paid for it. Old Harley's are way expensive in Europe.
That's why I wouldn't trade any of my old school bikes with a carburetor for ANYTHING new
100% with that!
I'm still riding a 1952 kick only Panhead that my dad left me.
Electronic nightmare now....
Give us a modern 80", single cam, 6 speed version of the old EVO that isn't over 600lbs. and cost more than a car! Working class America made Harley what it is today and now we can't afford to own one!
What’s wrong with innovation? They need to make the motorcycles young rider friendly, that’s why young people didn’t want to want to buy Harley’s if it looks like your riding your grandpas motorcycle
Service at a Harley dealer is highway robbery. If you buy a new bike you have to have the bike serviced at a dealer to keep the warranty valid. Not for sure if all Harley dealers are like the one I purchased my bike at, but when I brought it in for 1,000 mile service, I asked what it was going to cost. “Well it depends once we look at it.” In other words, they want you to sign a work order which is a blank check. My first 1,000 mile service was over $800. This was not my first rodeo; I have owned 28 motorcycles. But first time I was taken advantage of by a dealer like. Guess you never get to old to learn, though sometime it’s learning the hard way. One thing is for sure. This dealer lost a future customer.
I like going to a dealer to look at the new stuff,but I’ve got zero interest in owning one. Tons of good older used ones out there that still leave some money in the bank for mods….that you can still do yourselfThat and the day I can’t buy a bike without traction control and abs is the day I’m done riding.
02 fat boy here. New bikes with all the electric crap and movie theater size screens in front blocking the experience of being on a motorcycle. No thanks old school for me!! Everything. Cars music clothes etc etc. The brave new world sucks ! Glad I'm 60 and got to experience life when people actually gave a fuck
HD have been the McDonalds of motorcycles since the mid 80s. Charge a lot of money for a very basic product. Nostalgia and people falling for clever marketing is what keeps them going. Remember even their own CEO admitted that almost 70% of HDs profit comes from merchandise made in Asian countries.
This is why I’ll ride my ‘01 wide glide until either it or me can’t go anymore. Hell, the way it’s going now, the bike will probably outlast me! Lol!
At 62 years old, I still own three H-D models: 1994 HD Heritage Softail Classic, 2010 HD Sportster Iron 883, and 2014 HD Sportster 72. Most likely these will be the last Harleys I will ever own. The new stuff looks interesting, but personally, I prefer the "Evo" era. It was MUCH improved over the Shovelhead era. The younger generation may never understand this upgrade from back in the day. Prior to 1985, the dealerships kept drip pans under the new bikes to catch the leaking engine oil.
I would consider myself a "new age" Harley Davidson customer. I am 31 years old but they won't talk to me anymore either. Local dealers won't finance a bike to someone who owns a Corvette that financed that from a dealership and didn't miss a single payment. My credit score is good so they are just being dicks. They will be lucky to still be in business in 30 years.
23 years old….love my 96 sporty 1200. Been able to do all my own work and maintenance, I’m gonna hold onto it for a long while I think….unless I find a good deal on a 70s cb or kz/z1 LOL
Harley left that zone over 20 years ago. Fine by me, "grab a wrench!" SO MANY ways to build it like ya want it!✌😎
Reliability that they used to have??? I started riding in 1969. I myself never owned a Harley , but a few of my riding buddies did. They did not own them for long. They got tired of fixing them all the time and sometimes in the middle of nowhere. Also, they leaked oil all the time. My friends turned to BMW.s, Moto Guzzis, And Hondas and other reliable metric bikes. They wanted a reliable machine that they did not have to work on all the time. Just change the oil, top up with fuel, and go. Oh yes, check the tire pressure. I myself rode a 1972 Moto Guzzi for 75,000 miles. The only reason I parked it was because I got a deal on a 1983 Honda Gold wing cruiser that I could not turn down. I put just over 100,000 miles on it without any breakdowns at all. Just had to do routine maintenance.
Nobody in my group ever went back to a Hardley Abelson. Today at 73, am still riding with some of my old riding buddies that are still around. On a Honda, ofcourse. It's a good thing they don't make Harleys like they used to. As a matter of fact, Harley still has a reliability problem, but not as bad as before. Just my two cents.
Keeping garage tinkering alive...The Wife and l have 3 Shovels and an Evo.👍
That's awesome!! Especially when you got the wife involved too!!
I am on Harley #5. The Milwaukee 8 114 is simply great. And yeah Im 71 and remember the small independent dealers. The personal connection is completely gone unfortunately. I think Harley screwed the pooch when they stopped offering beginner bikes like my Sprint 250.
I get everyone throws rocks at the little bikes with just Harley-Davidson on the tank cause it's not a big air cooled Vtwin. The whole point is to get someone new on a bike with Harley-Davidson on the tank and make that stick in their mind.
Road King Special (adding a conv. windshield) or Heritage. Upcharging for black on any H-D is criminal. That grey looks like a highly buffed out primer coating w/ clear sprayed on imo.
And playing in their “Heritage” but not stocking parts to fix bikes even a few years old….sad.
The styling is well phugly. I am all for new looks but they are missing the mark on all their new offerings. I don't think Harley Davidson realizes how many young folk are old school at heart these days.
Strangely enough, what gives me hope (concerning the younger generation), is my 27 year old coworker who has gotten into late 70s honda choppers. He's got a couple of them now and constantly changing things up to see what works for him. He asks me for advice on old school history as I'm 61 and ride a 90 FXLR and a 98 FXD.
If you ask me they are way too much money , the old ones are a bunch cheaper. I tell them to look for a used one first for there first bike.!
Used is really the way to go still to this day!
At 71 I guess I can say that I'm "Old School" so here's my take on the new Harleys vs. the old ones. First off, the York Penn. plant was the best thing that the factory did as the tighter tolerances allowed them to build the Evo motor which was a long way from the shovelhead that they contued to produce long after it was competitive. As usual, there was a lot of bitching and moaning about how Harley had abandoned the Troublehead but I welcomed the oil tight, reliable, and more powerful motor. The twin cam had a sketchy start due to the cam chain set up and weak cam bearings but when that got sorted they turned out to be a reasonably solid motor. Now Harley seems to be playing the bigger is better game that the Japanese makers did in the '70s resulting in the 100 hp or so that you see today. The problem is that most people have very little experience with a 600lb, high hp bike. Those of us that started on lower powered bikes got a chance to figure them out before they got to the holy sh*t stage. Yes, the new Harleys handle a lot better than the old ones but weight and Newton's First Law of Motion still applies. Now we're looking at baggers with more electronics than Apollo 1 took to space. Granted the latest ones have improved a lot over the early stuff but you're still going to have to trailer that thing to the dealer if it goes south. On the other hand, although I have fixed more than one bike on the side of the road, I can't say that I enjoyed it. Better electrics get my vote. Admttedly the new Harleys are better than the old ones in pretty musch every aspect but there's always a trade off when things change and there's a few things that have gone by the way. Like the midnight sessions in the garage where half a dozen guys and a few dozen beers would conspire to get a bro's bike running for the next day's run. Or how back then you wouldn't think of passing a guy on the side of the road without stopping to lend a hand. I still remember when a shop or even a dealership would put their scheduled work aside to get you back on the road if you were far from home. I guess it comes down to the fact that when our bikes weren't so dependable, our fellow bikers were. These days, you can hardly get anyone to take a Sunday ride with you without booking a day next month. The fellowship of bikers came from the days when we depended on each other as a matter of course and it took some of the risk out of heading out to parts unknown. Riders now refer to being part of a lifestyle but the truth is they'll never understand what that was about. Like the lady sang, "You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone."
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I just purchased my first Harley Davidson last year. A 2023 117 Breakout. Couldn't be happier. Beautiful bike, plenty of power. Yeah, it was expensive, but we only have this one life to live, and I'm not getting any younger. I've wanted a Harley since I was 12 years old, I'm 41 now. Harley has been growing and evolving like the rest of us.
Got my first Harley in 89.at age 48.On my 4th one now at age 82.( a Beaut covered in chrome 2002 FLSTF
A turning point, was when The Motor Co. hired two CEOs, who didn't even ride motorcycles!
Talk about out of touch!
IDK, the M-8s have some strangely engineered parts.
What's up with the external oil line, that is routed strangely?
As if, doing top end work, requires removing far more external bits and pieces.
Seems like engineers are designing motors to be more complex to disassemble, on purpose, to force do it your selfers, to have their bikes serviced at the Dealerships.
I see greed playing a factor these days.
The goal of more businesses, it seems, is to see how much MORE they can gouge out of the average consumer.
Formerly, "durable goods" are no longer so.
Like, planned obsolescence is the new business motto, or mantra.
Ugh!
I have put a mile or two on a Harley. Pan Head to Twin Cam 103. Now have a 01 88 TC (carb) and 1998 80 EVO soft tail. Maybe age or hopefully wisdom, I do not need big speed or bling. I just want a bike I know I can throw a leg over and it will go with me for a few hours or few weeks on the road. These two bikes do that for me so I am happy and I got back to where I was two decades ago, riding and owning a bike I really know and enjoy. If you know what I mean, you know what I mean!!! Maybe your Chanel should shift to things about Pans, Shovels and Evos.
I agree I'm 68 years old and I just want to like I can ride for an hour or two change my own oil and then be reliable
I own a Roadster (as you know from my comments). Put some Apes on at the Dealership (didn't want to play with the wires for a day). Test rode a Softail. I will say I was AMAZED at how smooth it was and it had UNLIMITED POWER. I took it up to 90mph in no time. Probably not simple to fix anything. People call the BASE color "CUEBALL PRIMER".
And you know why all those digital gauges etc are there? BECAUSE THEY'RE CHEAPER TO PRODUCE AND MAKES MORE PROFIT.
I'm a professional mechanic for all my life, and all those electronics are a problem just waiting to happen.
Just went to a motorcycle tradeshow.
Every bike was half the price of a harley...if BMW had been there they might have had some competition.
This should tell you everything that you need to know who they see as their customer now
I feel like Harley-Davidson has been that way for years, Harley and Indian are the only ones in the big twin market now though. Kawasaki still has a few big twin, it's awesome to see BMW making a run at the big cruiser market with their engine.
Sadly.........You Cannot Unring a Bell! The Best of the Good Old Days are Gone FOREVER! GOD BLESS AMERICA WHEN IT WAS!
There is a huge used bike market out there, Decent low mile evos & twin cams are pretty cheap, well under 10k, shovels if you want them. Pan & Knuckle you gonna pay more than a new bike. But that.s the price for being independent, dealer free & self sufficient & of coarse looking cool.
😎👍
Big thumbs up for the channel...