I think Kelli has been able to persuade herself that she did not mur der Tegan because she just dumped her alive instead of actually ‘taking her life”. Probably left Tegan in a bin somewhere, possibly an industrial bin in an isolated area as to not alert anyone with her cries and screams. This is why Tegan has no burial site, as well as not ever been found, cos she ended up in a rubbish dump. That is why I think Kelli is so convinced she didn’t mur der Tegan, cos in her mind, she didn’t as Tegan was technically still alive when she was left. Regardless of whether Andrew Morris/Norris exists in the form she led every one to believe, I highly doubt her story, one thing that is fact in all of this is she is a habitual lier, an Her lies are absurd, egregious and downright scary.
@@PollyAmorous So where is Tegan then genius? lol there’s a reason she has never ever been found. Not one iota of a sign of life. If Maurice the taxi drivers story was credible then Tegan would have been found. He was mentally ill, and wasn’t able to be driving a taxi at the time. So I dont know how you take any of that story as fact? That’s laughable really. So it could have happened exactly like I have stated.
@@PollyAmorousBabies cry, if she was left in a park someone would see her or hear her. It happens often. It would take approx 24hrs for a baby to be too weak to cry.
If a mother leaving the hospital with her baby is NOT responsible for where her baby is….WHO is??? This is ridiculous. If you cannot produce the child…you’re guilty.
It’s so odd. If you leave the hospital with a live baby and it is never seen again, and the mother constantly changes her story/will not “tell what happened”, it is hard to reach another conclusion, her sex life and other pregnancies aside.
That baby is dead. And at the hands of her own mother. To believe otherwise is absolutely insane. Keli is where she belongs. I’ve also been pregnant multiple times and had some tough choices to make - murder is never an option. I do think she has multiple personality disorders but that’s no excuse to kill her baby. Kill yourself first, not the baby. She’s not being punished for having sex, having abortions, adopting her other children out or being promiscuous. She’s in prison for murder. Let’s not forget, that baby is gone. Forever. Keli still gets to breathe air. RIP baby Tegan. I hope your next life is kinder to you. You deserved better. ❤
If she became pregnant 5 times while on BC, she either wasn’t taking it daily or at all. After two pregnancies on BC, she should’ve switched to another form. Regardless, she is clearly a disturbed person.
She has no details to give because she killed her. She isn't defending someone else like her lawyers tried to imply. She is defending her own ass and thought she would get scot free
I watched Exposed and it only convinced me of Lane's guilt. I think she killed Tegan simply because she had somewhere to be (the wedding) and her boyfriend was back in town, so it's not like she was about to take the baby home. I don't believe the Andrew Norris story. I think Keli purposely didn't fill out the forms because she knew she was going to be getting rid of Tegan. I think she probably smothered Tegan soon after leaving the hospital and disposed of her before the wedding.
I also believe that is why she wanted to be induced, she had a wedding to attend and wouldn't be able to hide her pregnancy. I also believe she cheated on her boyfriend and didn't "plan" for an "adoption". Definitely a pathological liar. Sorry for baby Teagan.
@@bettycopeland8357right. No body asking. When it first came on, I'm thinking, pregnant again. He went on for rugby? Who baby is this. Was that part of the motive? Y'know.
@@carelikecrazy but why did she need to off her baby? Could have given her up like her first child. Unless this baby was hiding a secret, who the real father was. Who could the father be that it would be so shameful that she needed to get rid of all traces of her incest baby?
The Exposed show mentioned is another great three part documentary that’s available on youtube by Australian Crime. A lot of people involved (including Keli) are interviewed. Super interesting if you want further watching.
What I find one of the most depressing aspects of this case is the level of detachment between Keli Lane and the rest of the world, basically. Parents, a sister, friends, coaches (and other staff), boyfriend - not a single person (in her own words) thought she was worth making a fuss over. If you look at it like that compulsive lying seems less strange - this is somebody who has been living in this weird bubble where everything happens according to the terms she is setting. That is why, I suppose, she is unable to understand why people, in turn, are unable to believe or accept her Dickensian tale of secretly handing over a newborn baby to a mystery man in the middle of nowhere.
I’m sure that had a major part in why she felt like she needed to get rid of the baby. Nobody would have supported her and if anything, it seems like her parents would have brought hell down on her for getting pregnant “out of wedlock” and as a teen. They seem like the type of parents that are largely absent from participating in their child’s lives, but simultaneously expect them to perform at the top level when it comes to academics and sports. Concerned with appearances more so than actual connection with their own children. Its clear she also picked up that same detached approach to relationships and human connections.
@@Tsumami__ Yes, exactly, when I heard the comment that "her parents still support her" I was actually angry - the same parents who remained blissfully unaware of their teenage daughter being pregnant multiple times, having more than one abortion and giving birth 3 times. This is also where it is different from Casey Anthony's case. That family had very unhelathy dynamics as well, but at the core they cared, the parents supported their daughter and they loved their grandchild and they eventually cut ties with Casey, despite enabling her all her life to keep up appearances, because the gravity of the outcome is just too much to bear. Here it is just surface level decency and a great dark void underneath.
See I think something was off. No way did her mother especially not notice the pregnancy. Especially if Kelly was still living at home. The parents either distanced themselves hoping it would go away or that Kelly would deal with it, were in complete denial that their daughter would go to bed with a man, they're distancing themselves now that everybody thinks she's a monster who discards babies or they know exactly who the dad to those babies were and someone was abusing their daughter but they don't want to expose him and themselves. There's no way her mother didn't know
@@renata8979Casey's dad called the police on her when he found her weed plant at 14. Narcissism/perfectionism always comes from a deep sense of shame. Brené Brown has done tons of research on the topic.
Yeah. I don't trust her at all but I also don't think people should be in jail when there's not enough evidence that a crime has even occoured. It's just a heavy case for me.
@GiuliaSantana no let her free to live her f live and eventually birth more kids. There is no evidence the child is alive either, so that's enough for her to be were she is.
@@GiuliaSantana Exactly. So many innocent people have been put in prison because someone was “convinced” they were guilty. No matter what I think about Keli specifically, it’s not the legal standard we should set.
The taxi driver’s story sounds like absolute bullshit. Aside from his mental health issues and the fact that he wasn’t even driving the year he alleged that happened, the story about him being concerned enough about an offhand comment to go back to check, but upon finding AN ABANDONED BABY he just shrugged it off as soon as the first passerby suggested they take care of it??? Lmao what?? Like it’s a lost cell phone he found in a park??? That story was just absurd.
I can’t tell you if anything he or Kelli ever said are at all true but it is wild to me that everyone assumes this guy couldn’t possibly have been driving off-the-books or in an unregulated taxi. A mentally unwell person driving when he shouldn’t is basically the most believable thing in the whole story. 😅
Agree. She probably drove her car to the hospital anyway so she didn't need a taxi. Remember she was hospital shopping trying to get induced. She would have needed her own transport in case that hospital turned her away like others had.
It’s irritating when they state the accused has “no history of violence”. People with no history of violence have gone on to murder their entire families. Who knows what any of us might resort to if we feel we have no other choice?
Yeah, true... bu I took it to mean that there were many observations by the hospital staff that she cared for the babies while they were in her presence; there is also the unusual amount of effort she put in to carry the babies to term and have them at a hospital rather than say in her bathroom; god forbid left in a bin after the birth; this all shows a desire to have them be born healthy and get cared for. So it's not just that she has no negative history (ie criminal convictions for violence) but she has a positive history and not just based on her family but by observation of several medical and social worker staffs. The sum of her behavior is not just unusual but contradictory.
@@Leila3i5umm what. Effort to carry them to term . Did you missed the whole she had 2 abortions previously and that she wanted to do an abortion again after and was to late. Are you serious. Also sweetie she could have pretend she cared about the kids while in hospital and under supervision.
Lawyers deliberately make comments knowing the judge will probably tell the jury to ignore it. All comments leave an indelible mark. I find it extremely difficult to believe that anyone can just forget a comment and the impact it had on them. Any influence , no matter how big or small is still influence.
The only people in the courtroom sworn to tell the truth is the witness. While they're in the box. -- cop dad told me that years ago, back when we was teaching me the difference between morals and the law.
I find hardly to believe you defend a killer. God for him, he said that. She has no proof of the story about her giving the child away. No phone number, no address, no name. Nothing ! She supposedly let her child with someone who's intentions she didn't know. Even if the child was killed by her imaginary boyfriend, she is at fault for giving the child up to someone without going through the proper channels for an adoption.
@@loredanadincu4300 Totally agree. They seem to be treating this child like she was a set of car keys that she might have "lost", or thrown in the bin!!!!
@@loredanadincu4300 People aren't trying to defend a killer. The issue is that investigators were forced to rush their work and the trial clearly showed it. The prosecuting lawyer wouldn't have needed to suggest a scenario that's then thrown out if there was better evidence to support it. Personally, I don't think she outright murdered the baby, I think she left her alone somewhere hoping someone would find her and take her in. This wouldn't make Keli any less of a vile, monstrous individual, and I further think the time she's serving is well deserved. After all, Tegan might well have died due to such selfish neglect. I just don't think the prosecuting team managed to prove the murder charge beyond reasonable doubt. Manslaughter is just as likely, if not more, and reckless endangerment plus abandonment doesn't necessarily mean that the child died either. When people criticize the prosecution's case, they're not necessarily siding with Keli Lane. They're trying to defend the integrity of the justice system, because even the most grotesque of criminals deserve a fair trial. We can't have people being charged based on circumstantial evidence and speculation. In fact, I think the prosecution was very lucky. If Keli had a better defense team and had provided a statement to the court, she could have easily gone free, and then there truly would be no justice for Tegan.
@riddler3488 Oh, she didn't kill it she abandoned it in a dumpster, park , forest. And then she died. Amazing 👏! They should free her, such a gentle soul. My bad ! An amazing woman she is.
I think her case stinks to high heaven BUT the fact that she got prosecuted on such flimsy evidence is pretty horrifying. Regardless of how you feel about someone, you can't just send them to jail based on a hunch. Just vile all around. Wish she'd have come clean, and wish the court had actually upheld the law instead if going off apparent whims
It’s not a hunch, it’s a likely scenario. She is a compulsive liar. Either She should keep her legs closed or tske responsibility and give up baby for adoption.
@@belleslettres354the evidence is no child was found when they looked all over Australia bitch. They looked on all the guys with that name you Bozo. They didn't found anything. The bitch is lying and you are kissing her killer ass
Did Australia have "safe haven" laws at the time, like in America? Meaning, it's lawful here to leave a newborn at safe locations like any hospital, fire department, police station etc with no questions asked and no laws broken... If so, she could have just left Tegan at the hospital and been on her way.
Cases like this are terrifying, and im not sure how people dont see that. It isn't supposed to matter what people think you did. Its supposed to be proven what you did. The fact is that at any time, the state can accuse you of doing something with no proof, and juries are dumb enough to covict you. Should scare you.
What is even more terrifying is baby Tegan remaining in the state of non-existence for 5 years before someone bothered to look into it. Or a hospital agreeing to induce labor based on someone's word and, also, someone being able to carry a newborn baby out of the hospital building bypassing any security.
Their was a baby alive and then there wasn’t plenty people get put away with circumstantial evidence she lied so many Times was her lies that got her into the trouble if she had went for adoption 3 without all the games and lies she would still be free after her child has been dumped in the wilderness. The whole thing stinks and if she was wanting lots of dick she should have at least got a coil in after baby one so she could focus on her career and said dicks.as she’s such a liar how can any words she says be taken seriously. I feel sorry for her a young girl going through all that alone but she’s only sorry because she got caught. We all know the justice system isn’t fair they didn’t just jump on her was years of gathering evidence looking for a child that is most likely dead.
😢😢Baby T cannot talk..Keli can but she won't tell her secrets. 2 babies terminated, and 1 tried to terminate but adopted, another adopted and 1 missing 😢 it was all about her nothing else.
The Hospital bins & anywhere within a 10 min walk is probably where Tegan was put. Even if Kelli attended a wedding hours later, I cant see her doing a long taxi trip to somewhere first & then a trip back home.
Case file, your track record of outstanding achievements remains untarnished!!!!!! Bravo! Bravo!!!!!! I have a theory......which might seem even worse than the terrible story Kelli made up to explain Tegan's disappearance . Babies are quite valuable.... Needing to get rid of one, which could result in financial security for Kelli is by far the better choice than murder. Could she have sold Tegan to baby traffickers? Or, even simply given her away to strangers? There are boxes at some of the Catholic Monasteries, where someone can leave a child (it's much like the drive thru at the pharmacy) with a live person on the inside.....no questions asked. If this is what Kelli did with her baby.......I can understand her reluctance to admit it She wouldn't even know the baby's name, now, nor where she ended up At any level, it is ultimately Kelli's responsibility to account for the disposition of this child. Very sad .....esp. for her youngest daughter.
I wonder if police checked the phone call logs back 4 years at that hospital on the 12 or 13th September,1996. Otherwise how did she notify this man that his child was born?
On balance, I think she's guilty. By the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt? I don't think the case was proven. As for the law of not getting parole until the body is produced? On balance, it's a solid law. The problem with this case was that a conviction was reached without solid evidence. No law is going to cover every eventuality. Some will always be mistreated, such is the human experience. Life isn't fair. I worked in a large hospital that did about 99% of abortions for a huge area. On the printouts, the patient history would come up, which was relevant for diagnosis. Probably 98% of women had one abortion. The vast majority of the rest were on their second abortion. And a teeny percentage of that 2% had numerous abortions. I think there are some women who have some combination of denial/mental illness, abuse, addiction, and a deep biological/psychological need to be pregnant. This cohort just keeps doing what they're doing, despite outcomes, no matter how intelligent and accomplished they may seem to others. My boss had an open adoption from a woman in this cohort. Even though she was in a long term relationship, and all her children were from the partner, she continued on a destructive path. In about 12 yrs, she had 7 children, the set of twins she adopted out to my boss, and 7 abortions. Shortly after the adoption was finalized, this gal was in for another abortion. You don't really know what to feel about this. This woman needs deep psychological help, for sure, and for that there is empathy. However the revulsion of the revolving door of abortions is abhorrent.
Idk from my personal experience I think it would be better to be aborted than live a life being abused and neglected. In the US a senator was working on a documentary about the child trafficking going on within cps and she suddenly ended up murdered in her home along with her husband. Statistically children are 6 times more likely to die in foster care than in the general population. My state has banned all abortions and I argued with my neighbor about the need to make sure the resulting children are fed, but she was against that. So she wants the babies born, but not ensured they're taken care of afterwards?? Yet the states has so much food waste. The whole system is insane.
The fact that you are giving birth and going to a party in the same day AS A MOTHER gives a lot of perspective into what Keli was capable of doing. If you think I am a hypocrite, please let me know if you find another person around you that has given birth and went to a party in the same day.
Obviously had active sex life without contraception how reckless was that plus who could imagine going out socially straight away after birthing a child. She must be tough
I believe she does know where the baby's body is, but she's so used to lying, and so deep in those lies, that she feels she has to continue to go along with it.
after all of those back and forth ... everyone is so focused on Kelli ... only a few have ever focused on a 2 day old baby who's gone missing since the day she left the hospital with her so-called mom.... I just hope that people who support Kelli would also remember to feel sorry about the lost baby... who up to now has no record of her existence since she left that hospital...
Sort of. ... and yet also not. Best case, if any wise man ran across that broken physco he'd have a REALLY HARD time justifying hauling his little girl into that drama circus. That woman had babies for tools to deal with her own issues and desires. I get a lot of people do that. But also. I'm not sure I could haul my kid into that. Its not like you could pop up and leave again. That crazy woman and the media and her town and her family would forever have access to your child. Just. As a child who dealt with something similar, it's nice to dream a little girls knight in shining armor came when she was a baby and protected her from her own mother's side of her family.
If this girl could actually say the truth she would actually help herself. If the baby is still alive and she gave it away, she should say it. She should say who she gave it away to. The fact that she says nothing shows she is hiding something. The truth may be uglier.
Tegan was her responsibility and then she's disappears without a trace. That's all the fact that is needed. The man she handed her baby to is Jason Bourne apparently, completely untracable for decades. Heart of stone apparantly too, because he could still save her from jail at any time by coming forward, but he maintains his cover. Must have contacts to forge id documents to give Tegan a new identity too. Unbelievable the sympathy this woman is getting.
Yep. Her story, and therefore defence, was ludicrous! Not only do you have to believe that 'Andrew' just disappeared, but also his Mum and 'Mel'. And if we entertain the idea that 'Andrew' took the baby to raise it, we also have to believe that in all this time, with all the media exposure this case has received, no one in his social, family or work sphere from that time has ever thought 'huh, that was weird when Andrew and Mel from Manly became instant parents around the time Tegan Lane was born, I wonder if I should contact the police?'
Nowadays, in many places, an infant can be left in a hospital or at a fire station. I don’t know if she had this option. I do know, both from study and professional experience, that the maladaptive desire to become pregnant again very soon after an abortion is not as uncommon as one might expect. I have also occasionally seen it in young women who have given up their newborn for adoption. Because of this, caution should be taken in urging young women to give up their baby for adoption, and recommend psychiatric evaluation to ascertain if this is likely to occur. If the young woman is judged likely to pursue a replacement pregnancy before her life situation improves, continued counseling and support should be available.
I’m glad I’m not a crook because I don’t know if there’s a good one, or decent. They all sound like high school bully the way they twist truth and lie. I’ve been in her shoes twice, I have taken care of dozens of babies and to harm one in any way is clearly inhuman. Most people would rather be killed before a baby was going to be the victim of a malignant narcissist.
Found guilty with a non unanimous jury, with no real evidence and only weak circumstantial evidence, she got 18 years which is wild. She also got denied parole at her 13.5 years mark based on "No body, no parole" laws. She was found guilty 11-1. I'd argue a child abandonment/endangerment charge is as much as you can legally sustain, though I do agree she likely caused the baby to come to death.
What is wild is you defending a child killer. There is no evidence the child is alive. They looked all trough Australia. They looked at all the guys with that name , nothing. That's the evidence in her case. That's why she is in prison you 🤡 .
It's been proven in America that we can convict people with nobody. I do not know how it is on australia, but I do know that in Australia they have also had many other controversial convictions dealing with babies such as that woman who had her babies die due to a genetic condition (though she could be English), and the woman who had the dingo take her baby. Australia has some pretty archaic views regarding mothers.
@@katelynbrown98I know you can, but that usually requires stronger evidence. The no body problem is that the law means without a body she cannot be PAROLED which is insane because what if she truly is innocent? There's no way for her to comply with that law to get parole she HAS to wait until her full sentence runs which is insane.
One of the repeated statements that stands out to me is that " she had no history of violence".She attempted to abort a baby at six and a half months by lying about her stage of pregnancy. Pretty violent, I would say, and that violence was directed toward a baby, her baby.
While it's important to remember that we the pubic only know the information we are fed by the police, courts, and media, and therefore perhaps there may be some room within unknown or withheld information that could potentially add weight to Keli being innocent, on balance there's seems to be so much inconsistency and lies in Keli's story (or multiple stories) that it's very hard not to concede she is guilty of disposing of her baby daughter. Perhaps it's conceivable that a man raising a child on his own might have chosen to live so remotely as to not know about the case of missing Tegan or to remain unknown to anyone around them, but with his mother and partner allegedly also forming part of the story, it seems highly improbable to me that all of them would be ignorant of this case, even if they were living abroad. I don't think Keli Lane is a bad person necessarily, I think she is someone who was unable to manage her life, her feelings, her needs and the apparent expectations put upon her, and her children paid the price for that.
She may have actually made the Olympic team if she hadn't been repeatedly pregnant and recovering from births. She certainly would have performed better at least, had her body not been going through that level of physical stress from giving birth, and mental stress from trying to hide it... So incomprehensible.
Hi I think this is the case that Kelly will go to her grave only knowing the answer… I often wonder if it had not been discovered she had Teagan to begin with whether she would’ve ever told anyone. I truly believe she knows where that child is and what became of her Perhaps on her deathbed confession. ? The manhours worked of police, the emotions of all, and the tragedy of a baby, sigh… So very sad all of it 😢 Good case CF 👍🇨🇦
If the babe were still alive she would only need t tell the truth and allow the child ( would be adult now) to be found. However she has been in prison since 2010. She have been paroled, I think this year, but she refuses to say what she did with the baby, or reveal what she did with the body. If the child is living...what is her problem? I believe the baby died in 1996.
Ok, so hear me out..... what if Andrew Norris was an alias, and he told kelli that he would take the baby. Presumably, he did, but...... what if he gave the baby away or sold her? That would explain why kelli keeps saying she gave him the child. Also, when kelli found out a few people knew if her pregancy but didn't say anything the question is, "Why did she keep those pregnancies a secret? Why go through all that if she didn't want to hide the pregnancies? Her friends suspected that she wanted to keep things private, but she never admitted to being pregnant. Tegan could be alive and unaware of who she is.
If I remember everything correctly, they never mentioned thinking that she was pregnant until after the case was investigated. They didn't ask her if she was pregnant when she was actually pregnant. My memory of the case might be incorrect though.
IMO you are not rehabilitated without an admission of guilt. No admission of guilt = no realisation of wrong doing = no time served, so stay put until you admit to guilt and come to terms with all that that means.
But many folk are innocent in prison and the authorities know it. She’s not I think she dumped the baby. Her family stood by all this so they would have stood by and helped her give the baby up and then get her on birth control I don’t believe she was on it all those years 5 pregnancies by pregnancies 3 surly you know it’s not working.
Keli Lane: Baby killer is thrown back into Silverwater Prison after being caught breaking key condition while on day release By Pranav Harish For Daily Mail Australia 07:31 27 Feb 2024, updated 15:50 22 Oct 2024
Another potential scenario...she was having an affair with a man giving a false name who may have been married. Once giving birth, she handed the baby over to him, and he either gave the baby up or "disposed" of it. This would explain why he never came forward. Just an idea. I'd love to know if a composite sketch of him was released to the public, but now that I wrote this, I think I remember it being mentioned.
I cant believe her parents really never noticed all these pregnancies. Their teenage daughter. Thats really odd. I also dont understand why she didnt get abortions shes clearly not opposed to it and murdering a living breathing infant is so much worse.
Well she did try to dupe a clinic into giving her a late stage abortion so I don’t think she had too much respect for life whichever way you look at it.
@robyn7287 too many young teenagers use contraceptive pills incorrectly. Some only use it when theyre about to have sex. They're too closed to not use condoms on top of contraceptives
Of course you get news contraceptive. No one gets pregnant five times using contraceptives. Why everyone believes that she did is a mystery to me. She lied about everything!
I don't understand how the excess drinking could have made her bc pills ineffective, unless she was only taking her daily pills after she had already started drinking, & then drinking to the point of vomiting the pills up every single day... That's not logical that she could have been such a serious alcoholic while also being an athlete. More likely that she wasn't really on the pill, or at least not consistently.
23:47 this is traumatic. I don't understand why they couldn't just use condoms on top of the pill. She obviously knew the pill alone wasn't working or they weren't using it correctly
So if Kelli is allowed out, then she benefits from the fact this child is still missing and no one has taken accountability for her missing. I agree with the "where's the body" law. If a jury found these people guilty due to the evidence presented, then there was ample proof they committed the murder and therefore need to be held accountable. Until Kelli admits to what she did to Teagan and stops her pathological behaviour, she remains behind bars. As for the "slut shaming" everyone is mentioning, a rapist is taken to count for his "encounters/victims" via his previous record, so should she. And again this case is about a little innocent baby that by all intents and purposes is dead. This "Norris/Morris" is a figment of Kelli's pathology. Once she accepts that she did it and explain where she put the body, then she can begin healing and that little angel can be laid to rest.
That's the thing, there's no evidence that people who are accused of murder & the body isn't found actually did the crime innocent people will always get caught up In such a law.
If, if she is alive, why have they not concidered that the new parents hadnt changed the name of the child? Maybe that is why there is no record of said child.
Is there something wrong with her intellectual capacity to reason? How does she keep making the exact same mistake over and over again (unprotected sex) knowing where it gets her, and then secondly not noticing she’s pregnant until far too late over and over and over again. Like 5 times. This is beyond belief for me. I need some explanation other than “I don’t know”.
@@wiebkescantick947well by baby 4 surly she knew it wasn’t working a coil could have been fitted if she got birth control in the first place she could have said hey this isn’t working. I question everything she says how many lies will she give and how are we to know what’s truth. Two abortions and three more pregnancies seems she is old enough to have sex and be on birth control she’s an intelligent athlete it wasn’t 1950s something isn’t right with her. Leaving a baby somewhere might not be killing it but it is by default. She clearly has justified it in her mind and has convinced herself she didn’t kill any baby but what a mess and 4 other children grow up with scars being part of all this.
You just answered why she killed Tegan...Parental expectation. Artifice, shes all about the superficial, The personality disorder she has is called malignant Narcissism.
46:13 when the defendant clearly has done everything possible to make themselves unreliable, I think that can substitute for beyond reasonable doubt in a more classic sense. She persistently lied and lied and lied, most likely because the children who lived may have barely done so, and I suspect there may be a fetish at play in a young woman who simply refuses to control her impulses but is organized enough to deceive people for years. Considering her pattern of skipping birth control with a likely motive of harm or malice, she is a huge threat to society. She believed the world owed her an easy life. In cases without much physical evidence, we cannot continue to tolerate wildly obvious lying and call it “not guilty.” If you have the ability to make sense but refuse to do so, the only reasonable conclusion is that you have done the crime or worse. Esp in situations where people have a preference for victims they can create quickly & easily. She likes harming the babies or making their lives uncertain/diffixult. I think she’s clearly a hardcore psychopath
Why not just use the right birth control? Very baffling. Also, being up for parole EARLY doesn’t mean she served her time! When the time is up she will be released.
This is insane. You cant be a part of society without birth records. Also dna stuff like my heritage. The kid is gone. This is horrible. Unbelievable, even.
God this is reminding me of that mum in Australia who had like 9 kids die.she went to jail for ages but recently was set free because it turned out it was a rare genetic thing. But I think this chick in this story killed her kid
This case was always strange, but there is little evidence. Keli is a pathological liar, but is she a murderer. I find it ridiculous that her parole was denied earlier this year, she deserves to be let out even the sentencing judge has stated this.
1:12:45 The comment of this Dr really frustrates me. It is not as simple as 'the public prefer to believe a mother would kill her a baby before beleiving a father would take custody of the baby and disappear' and a learned person such as herself must well know that! Come on! Did 'Andrew', 'Mel' and Andrew's Mum immediately leave the country or state with Tegan (even though they only made the decision to take Tegan mere days/hours before)?. Did they immediately go no contact with any family, friends or acquaintances? And they asked for no proof from Keli of her pregnancy or the babies paternity? She tells no one in her life about 5 pregnancies and conceals them well, however apparently she decides to tell Andrew and also tell him that he is the father and he just takes her at her word and says 'cool, give me a call when you give birth and Mel, Mum and I will pick the baby up, no questions asked, don't have to talk to any medical staff, get discharge or follow up info, complete any documentation, just bring the baby out and we'll take it from there' And presumably they promised 'we'll never tell another living soul about this' because this is Manly, Andrew and Keli allegedly met at a local pub, so one would think they may have circles that intersect and Keli, who does not even trust her lifelong girlfriends with this secret goes 'yep, Andrew, who has been having an affair with me for 6 months while he is in a serious relationship with another woman, seems a super trustworthy, stand up guy. Sold'. Then this man, 2 women and a baby just disappeared. That's crazy talk.
i am australian, and I remember this whole case as it unfolded. Difference between Aussies and w o g s like me, who were BORN AND RAISED in Australia to immigrant parents.... W t F F F F was with her parents??? I put on 3 kgs over Xmas and my Greek mumma REMINDS me every day how i look pregnant.... and I am a MALE. Yet this woman Kelli goes through what, 3, 4 7 or 10 or whatever full term pregnancies and her parents dont notice??? Yeh, nah, sorry bro, not buying it AT ALLLLLL
Keli somehow put a mental block on her pregnancies until she had no choice but to face up and give birth. She ultimately did right by babies Kayla and Jacob. However, I do believe that whatever happened to baby Tegan is too awful for Keli to face up to and so it is also now mentally blocked within the mind of Keli.
Seems like one potential logical explanation. She also may not have realized she was pregnant due to her extreme physical activities. It can actually interfere with menstrual cycles and by the time she realized she was pregnant it was too late for an abortion. It also seems obvious to me by some of the comments she was said to have made that she didn't feel seen, heard, or truly cared for by anyone and that may have assisted in her denial of the pregnancies. In my opinion, there are so many potential scenarios with this case. I don't know why, but my gut tells me she didn't kill the baby.
There’s no evidence she was a bad mother to emily, and there is similarly no evidence that in the years after Tegan’s disappearance, she was a danger to children. So like, what is even the point of incarcerating someone for that long if everyone acknowledges that she’s not an imminent danger to the community? You’re robbing a child of their mother to get justice for another child that nobody has been able to prove is deceased! What kind of logic is this?
"Another child" had a basic right to live too. Nobody has proved she is deceased, but nobody is able to prove she is alive aither and at the time of her dissapearance she was in a legal custody of the woman who had bithed her. I can imagine the moral dilemma and anguish of people who had to investigate this case and bring it to trial, but what was the alternative? By the way, I noted that Keli was offered counceling, but she rejected it. Maybe if she accepted the help she was offered the outcome would be different.
I too am disturbed by the inevitable effect on Emily. I don’t think the murder of Teegan was proven beyond a reasonable doubt; I think it might meet the standard of “preponderance of the evidence,” though. That’s not enough, in my opinion, to put someone away for 18 years. I would consider that her choices in giving up two babies for adoption would suggest that she was less likely to kill an unwanted baby. As for her multiple pregnancies in her teens and early 20s, I think she wanted to be pregnant, and probably in some way, really wanted to have a baby.
The thing is the baby never went to a doctor, never had a vaccine, just disappeared... So clearly she's either not alive or was taken out of the country immediately. And this story with the father makes no sense. Absolutely nobody in her life knew about this man. Nobody ever saw her with him, there's no proof he had the baby, there's no proof he ever existed. She didn't give any information about him that can be used to trace him, even though she says she had a relationship with him for months. She also never herself try to find him. You'd think if your freedom depended on finding this person, you'd do all you can to find him... And where did she give him the baby, so that nobody saw anything? It's very improbable. The only person we know 100% was last seen with the baby is her... She knows what happened but all the accounts she gave were false. There is no reason now why she wouldn't tell the truth if she was actually innocent. But she sticks to the father story, which itself changed several times over the years. And she is known to be a great liar. So how can you trust her about this when she lied about everything else, and when there is nothing to show this man ever existed. Someone always knows about affairs, they don't happen in an alternative universe. It's not like you just see a random man and decide you're gonna have an affair and then from time to time you just materialize in the other's bedroom and have sex and then materialize back in your life and have absolutely no interaction with them except that. You meet somewhere, you have some time to get to know each other and then you start the affair and that also happens partly in public. I can't believe that it is possible to have nobody ever see you together... and with all the media attention leads should have appeared. So i don't think this man exists and her story makes very little sense. That said, i don't think they had proof enough she killed the baby. And in her own mind she might be innocent because she didn't actually kill the baby, she just disposed of her. She could have just abandoned her and probably the baby died afterwards. People do that sort of thing, just leave babies in dumpsters etc. and think that's mercy because it leaves them a chance. From my pov that is practically the same as murder, or at least manslaughter, but legally I'm not sure it's the same. Either way, in the end it comes down to somebody's word over somebody else's. There is no proof either way. I'm sure if she knew where the child was she would have said something, so she probably just left the baby somewhere. The only other possibility i can see is the baby was sold/taken out of the country and she really has no idea what happened from there. But she definitely knows more than she lets on.
She did use contraception. It’s mentioned a few times. Including when prosecutor Mark Tedecski said in court he believes Kelli’s excess drinking rendered her use of contraception useless. Edited to add perhaps it’s another one of her many lies though. I believe there is something psychological going on with her. Whether the trigger was her original abortion, or even perhaps SA.
She is a pathological liar, but the rest doesn't add up. Stop shaming someone based on your own biases. I am Australian as well and many do not believe she is guilty.
I don't think she murdered Tegan. I think it's possible that this child was given over to someone and she doesn't know their real name. He may not even be the father. She lived her life in shame over her decisions. I could totally see her giving her baby to a stranger and then concocting this whole "father has daughter" story because they did an extensive search and found nothing of either of their existence. If it was a simple "father has daughter" innocent scenario there's no reason he couldn't just come forward and clear the air. I think some stranger lied about their name and she gave that person her baby so that she can move on with her life. Chances are that this baby was abused or sold or something, but that she's either dead or illegally adopted and does not have the name Tegan. I wonder if they were to put Kelli's DNA into a DNA database if they could possibly find a familial connection to Tegan.
@@markkromer1238a few times. Included the part about prosecutor Mark Tedeski saying Kelli’s excess drinking of alcohol rendered her use of contraception useless.
@@markkromer1238 He said she was on the pill but that it could of been rendered as ineffective due to the alcohol consumption plus the throwing up. It was around 35-45 minutes in.
Jesus christ the comments. The evidence for her conviction was extremely flimsy. People saying she should be doxxed or deserved what she got are out of rheir mind. You might as well lock up anyone that gives you bad vibes even if you have no evidence, with that mindset
She’s a compulsive liar, that’s enough evidence for me and a lot of other people. I have no sympathy for her, she put herself in the position she’s in.
What’s amazing to me is how Casey Anthony case was such an obvious concluding with sniffer dogs located the smell and dna in Casey’s trunk, the body is found with little stickers on her close to her home … and yet she was found not guilty. This one has no dna, no body , no sniffer dogs, nothing and she is guilty because of laws. I think the jury got it right asking to not conclude guilt or not but convicted her of lying and obstructing justice . Amazing how one got nothing ! Casey Anthony as guilty. This one she may be guilty but it definitely was not proven not proven by the crown! JMO
![Hunxho - Ball Forever [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nki9ZTF9Uls/mqdefault.jpg)
Watch part 1 here: ruclips.net/video/TJ-2DdP0tA4/видео.html
Why can I not read the whole title? Just asking
I think Kelli has been able to persuade herself that she did not mur der Tegan because she just dumped her alive instead of actually ‘taking her life”. Probably left Tegan in a bin somewhere, possibly an industrial bin in an isolated area as to not alert anyone with her cries and screams. This is why Tegan has no burial site, as well as not ever been found, cos she ended up in a rubbish dump. That is why I think Kelli is so convinced she didn’t mur der Tegan, cos in her mind, she didn’t as Tegan was technically still alive when she was left. Regardless of whether Andrew Morris/Norris exists in the form she led every one to believe, I highly doubt her story, one thing that is fact in all of this is she is a habitual lier, an Her lies are absurd, egregious and downright scary.
Under a tree in a blanket with a bottle in a park. So, nothing like you just stated.
@@PollyAmorous So where is Tegan then genius? lol there’s a reason she has never ever been found. Not one iota of a sign of life. If Maurice the taxi drivers story was credible then Tegan would have been found. He was mentally ill, and wasn’t able to be driving a taxi at the time. So I dont know how you take any of that story as fact? That’s laughable really. So it could have happened exactly like I have stated.
@@tara-leedawn5509 Except it didn’t.
@@PollyAmorousBabies cry, if she was left in a park someone would see her or hear her. It happens often. It would take approx 24hrs for a baby to be too weak to cry.
@@sarahholland2600 Yep, that’s why she was found quickly and immediately had a new family.
If a mother leaving the hospital with her baby is NOT responsible for where her baby is….WHO is???
This is ridiculous. If you cannot produce the child…you’re guilty.
It’s so odd. If you leave the hospital with a live baby and it is never seen again, and the mother constantly changes her story/will not “tell what happened”, it is hard to reach another conclusion, her sex life and other pregnancies aside.
That baby is dead. And at the hands of her own mother. To believe otherwise is absolutely insane. Keli is where she belongs. I’ve also been pregnant multiple times and had some tough choices to make - murder is never an option. I do think she has multiple personality disorders but that’s no excuse to kill her baby. Kill yourself first, not the baby. She’s not being punished for having sex, having abortions, adopting her other children out or being promiscuous. She’s in prison for murder. Let’s not forget, that baby is gone. Forever. Keli still gets to breathe air. RIP baby Tegan. I hope your next life is kinder to you. You deserved better. ❤
If she became pregnant 5 times while on BC, she either wasn’t taking it daily or at all. After two pregnancies on BC, she should’ve switched to another form. Regardless, she is clearly a disturbed person.
Maybe if she had been more forthcoming with the truth and details, people wouldn’t be so suspicious of her.
She has no details to give because she killed her. She isn't defending someone else like her lawyers tried to imply. She is defending her own ass and thought she would get scot free
I watched Exposed and it only convinced me of Lane's guilt. I think she killed Tegan simply because she had somewhere to be (the wedding) and her boyfriend was back in town, so it's not like she was about to take the baby home. I don't believe the Andrew Norris story. I think Keli purposely didn't fill out the forms because she knew she was going to be getting rid of Tegan. I think she probably smothered Tegan soon after leaving the hospital and disposed of her before the wedding.
That is without any shadow of doubt, if you believe in reality, the most likely scenario!!!
I also believe that is why she wanted to be induced, she had a wedding to attend and wouldn't be able to hide her pregnancy. I also believe she cheated on her boyfriend and didn't "plan" for an "adoption". Definitely a pathological liar. Sorry for baby Teagan.
@@bettycopeland8357right. No body asking. When it first came on, I'm thinking, pregnant again. He went on for rugby? Who baby is this. Was that part of the motive? Y'know.
@@bettycopeland8357that was nuts.
@@carelikecrazy but why did she need to off her baby? Could have given her up like her first child. Unless this baby was hiding a secret, who the real father was. Who could the father be that it would be so shameful that she needed to get rid of all traces of her incest baby?
Part 1 was so interesting, I've been waiting for Part 2! Thanks CP!
Me too! Impatient from the UK 😂
The Exposed show mentioned is another great three part documentary that’s available on youtube by Australian Crime. A lot of people involved (including Keli) are interviewed. Super interesting if you want further watching.
What I find one of the most depressing aspects of this case is the level of detachment between Keli Lane and the rest of the world, basically. Parents, a sister, friends, coaches (and other staff), boyfriend - not a single person (in her own words) thought she was worth making a fuss over. If you look at it like that compulsive lying seems less strange - this is somebody who has been living in this weird bubble where everything happens according to the terms she is setting. That is why, I suppose, she is unable to understand why people, in turn, are unable to believe or accept her Dickensian tale of secretly handing over a newborn baby to a mystery man in the middle of nowhere.
I’m sure that had a major part in why she felt like she needed to get rid of the baby. Nobody would have supported her and if anything, it seems like her parents would have brought hell down on her for getting pregnant “out of wedlock” and as a teen. They seem like the type of parents that are largely absent from participating in their child’s lives, but simultaneously expect them to perform at the top level when it comes to academics and sports. Concerned with appearances more so than actual connection with their own children. Its clear she also picked up that same detached approach to relationships and human connections.
@@Tsumami__ Yes, exactly, when I heard the comment that "her parents still support her" I was actually angry - the same parents who remained blissfully unaware of their teenage daughter being pregnant multiple times, having more than one abortion and giving birth 3 times. This is also where it is different from Casey Anthony's case. That family had very unhelathy dynamics as well, but at the core they cared, the parents supported their daughter and they loved their grandchild and they eventually cut ties with Casey, despite enabling her all her life to keep up appearances, because the gravity of the outcome is just too much to bear. Here it is just surface level decency and a great dark void underneath.
See I think something was off. No way did her mother especially not notice the pregnancy. Especially if Kelly was still living at home. The parents either distanced themselves hoping it would go away or that Kelly would deal with it, were in complete denial that their daughter would go to bed with a man, they're distancing themselves now that everybody thinks she's a monster who discards babies or they know exactly who the dad to those babies were and someone was abusing their daughter but they don't want to expose him and themselves. There's no way her mother didn't know
@@renata8979Casey's dad called the police on her when he found her weed plant at 14. Narcissism/perfectionism always comes from a deep sense of shame. Brené Brown has done tons of research on the topic.
@@Tsumami__so she had 5 pregnancies?!
That makes zero sense
I think she’s guilty. But I’m also not sure they have enough to prove that, legally. It’s a difficult one for sure.
Yeah. I don't trust her at all but I also don't think people should be in jail when there's not enough evidence that a crime has even occoured. It's just a heavy case for me.
@GiuliaSantana no let her free to live her f live and eventually birth more kids. There is no evidence the child is alive either, so that's enough for her to be were she is.
@@GiuliaSantana Exactly. So many innocent people have been put in prison because someone was “convinced” they were guilty. No matter what I think about Keli specifically, it’s not the legal standard we should set.
The taxi driver’s story sounds like absolute bullshit. Aside from his mental health issues and the fact that he wasn’t even driving the year he alleged that happened, the story about him being concerned enough about an offhand comment to go back to check, but upon finding AN ABANDONED BABY he just shrugged it off as soon as the first passerby suggested they take care of it??? Lmao what?? Like it’s a lost cell phone he found in a park??? That story was just absurd.
I can’t tell you if anything he or Kelli ever said are at all true but it is wild to me that everyone assumes this guy couldn’t possibly have been driving off-the-books or in an unregulated taxi. A mentally unwell person driving when he shouldn’t is basically the most believable thing in the whole story. 😅
Agree. She probably drove her car to the hospital anyway so she didn't need a taxi. Remember she was hospital shopping trying to get induced. She would have needed her own transport in case that hospital turned her away like others had.
It’s irritating when they state the accused has “no history of violence”. People with no history of violence have gone on to murder their entire families. Who knows what any of us might resort to if we feel we have no other choice?
Yeah, true... bu I took it to mean that there were many observations by the hospital staff that she cared for the babies while they were in her presence; there is also the unusual amount of effort she put in to carry the babies to term and have them at a hospital rather than say in her bathroom; god forbid left in a bin after the birth; this all shows a desire to have them be born healthy and get cared for. So it's not just that she has no negative history (ie criminal convictions for violence) but she has a positive history and not just based on her family but by observation of several medical and social worker staffs. The sum of her behavior is not just unusual but contradictory.
@@Leila3i5umm what. Effort to carry them to term . Did you missed the whole she had 2 abortions previously and that she wanted to do an abortion again after and was to late. Are you serious. Also sweetie she could have pretend she cared about the kids while in hospital and under supervision.
@@loredanadincu4300 true. She pretended not to be pregnant all those times she could protect anything i'm sure
Lawyers deliberately make comments knowing the judge will probably tell the jury to ignore it. All comments leave an indelible mark. I find it extremely difficult to believe that anyone can just forget a comment and the impact it had on them. Any influence , no matter how big or small is still influence.
The only people in the courtroom sworn to tell the truth is the witness. While they're in the box.
-- cop dad told me that years ago, back when we was teaching me the difference between morals and the law.
I find hardly to believe you defend a killer. God for him, he said that. She has no proof of the story about her giving the child away. No phone number, no address, no name. Nothing ! She supposedly let her child with someone who's intentions she didn't know. Even if the child was killed by her imaginary boyfriend, she is at fault for giving the child up to someone without going through the proper channels for an adoption.
@@loredanadincu4300 Totally agree. They seem to be treating this child like she was a set of car keys that she might have "lost", or thrown in the bin!!!!
@@loredanadincu4300 People aren't trying to defend a killer. The issue is that investigators were forced to rush their work and the trial clearly showed it. The prosecuting lawyer wouldn't have needed to suggest a scenario that's then thrown out if there was better evidence to support it. Personally, I don't think she outright murdered the baby, I think she left her alone somewhere hoping someone would find her and take her in. This wouldn't make Keli any less of a vile, monstrous individual, and I further think the time she's serving is well deserved. After all, Tegan might well have died due to such selfish neglect. I just don't think the prosecuting team managed to prove the murder charge beyond reasonable doubt. Manslaughter is just as likely, if not more, and reckless endangerment plus abandonment doesn't necessarily mean that the child died either.
When people criticize the prosecution's case, they're not necessarily siding with Keli Lane. They're trying to defend the integrity of the justice system, because even the most grotesque of criminals deserve a fair trial. We can't have people being charged based on circumstantial evidence and speculation. In fact, I think the prosecution was very lucky. If Keli had a better defense team and had provided a statement to the court, she could have easily gone free, and then there truly would be no justice for Tegan.
@riddler3488 Oh, she didn't kill it she abandoned it in a dumpster, park , forest. And then she died. Amazing 👏! They should free her, such a gentle soul. My bad ! An amazing woman she is.
I think her case stinks to high heaven BUT the fact that she got prosecuted on such flimsy evidence is pretty horrifying. Regardless of how you feel about someone, you can't just send them to jail based on a hunch. Just vile all around. Wish she'd have come clean, and wish the court had actually upheld the law instead if going off apparent whims
It’s not a hunch, it’s a likely scenario. She is a compulsive liar. Either She should keep her legs closed or tske responsibility and give up baby for adoption.
@@rmanning2750you misunderstood her comment. You need evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. It being the "likely scenario" is not enough evidence.
@@belleslettres354the evidence is no child was found when they looked all over Australia bitch. They looked on all the guys with that name you Bozo. They didn't found anything. The bitch is lying and you are kissing her killer ass
@@rmanning2750 thank god you're not in the field of criminal justice
There's a missing baby and she couldn't prove her innocence. Isn't that evidence enough?
Thank you for your brilliant podcasts from England. I love the way you comment and talk about different crimes in different countries
Did Australia have "safe haven" laws at the time, like in America? Meaning, it's lawful here to leave a newborn at safe locations like any hospital, fire department, police station etc with no questions asked and no laws broken... If so, she could have just left Tegan at the hospital and been on her way.
I thought the same thing.
Cases like this are terrifying, and im not sure how people dont see that. It isn't supposed to matter what people think you did. Its supposed to be proven what you did. The fact is that at any time, the state can accuse you of doing something with no proof, and juries are dumb enough to covict you. Should scare you.
What is even more terrifying is baby Tegan remaining in the state of non-existence for 5 years before someone bothered to look into it. Or a hospital agreeing to induce labor based on someone's word and, also, someone being able to carry a newborn baby out of the hospital building bypassing any security.
As George Carlin once said, you're getting judged by 12 people that are too dumb to get out of jury duty.
Their was a baby alive and then there wasn’t plenty people get put away with circumstantial evidence she lied so many Times was her lies that got her into the trouble if she had went for adoption 3 without all the games and lies she would still be free after her child has been dumped in the wilderness. The whole thing stinks and if she was wanting lots of dick she should have at least got a coil in after baby one so she could focus on her career and said dicks.as she’s such a liar how can any words she says be taken seriously. I feel sorry for her a young girl going through all that alone but she’s only sorry because she got caught. We all know the justice system isn’t fair they didn’t just jump on her was years of gathering evidence looking for a child that is most likely dead.
I think she killed her baby, but the fact that there was no evidence and she got convicted based on nothing is kinda scary.
😢😢Baby T cannot talk..Keli can but she won't tell her secrets. 2 babies terminated, and 1 tried to terminate but adopted, another adopted and 1 missing 😢 it was all about her nothing else.
The Hospital bins & anywhere within a 10 min walk is probably where Tegan was put. Even if Kelli attended a wedding hours later, I cant see her doing a long taxi trip to somewhere first & then a trip back home.
Great job Casefile! Wow what a saga..💔
Case file, your track record of outstanding achievements remains untarnished!!!!!! Bravo! Bravo!!!!!!
I have a theory......which might seem even worse than the terrible story Kelli made up to explain Tegan's disappearance . Babies are quite valuable.... Needing to get rid of one, which could result in financial security for Kelli is by far the better choice than murder. Could she have sold Tegan to baby traffickers? Or, even simply given her away to strangers? There are boxes at some of the Catholic Monasteries, where someone can leave a child (it's much like the drive thru at the pharmacy) with a live person on the inside.....no questions asked. If this is what Kelli did with her baby.......I can understand her reluctance to admit it
She wouldn't even know the baby's name, now, nor where she ended up
At any level, it is ultimately Kelli's responsibility to account for the disposition of this child.
Very sad .....esp. for her youngest daughter.
I wonder if police checked the phone call logs back 4 years at that hospital on the 12 or 13th September,1996. Otherwise how did she notify this man that his child was born?
On balance, I think she's guilty. By the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt? I don't think the case was proven. As for the law of not getting parole until the body is produced? On balance, it's a solid law. The problem with this case was that a conviction was reached without solid evidence. No law is going to cover every eventuality. Some will always be mistreated, such is the human experience. Life isn't fair.
I worked in a large hospital that did about 99% of abortions for a huge area. On the printouts, the patient history would come up, which was relevant for diagnosis. Probably 98% of women had one abortion. The vast majority of the rest were on their second abortion. And a teeny percentage of that 2% had numerous abortions. I think there are some women who have some combination of denial/mental illness, abuse, addiction, and a deep biological/psychological need to be pregnant. This cohort just keeps doing what they're doing, despite outcomes, no matter how intelligent and accomplished they may seem to others.
My boss had an open adoption from a woman in this cohort. Even though she was in a long term relationship, and all her children were from the partner, she continued on a destructive path. In about 12 yrs, she had 7 children, the set of twins she adopted out to my boss, and 7 abortions. Shortly after the adoption was finalized, this gal was in for another abortion.
You don't really know what to feel about this. This woman needs deep psychological help, for sure, and for that there is empathy. However the revulsion of the revolving door of abortions is abhorrent.
Idk from my personal experience I think it would be better to be aborted than live a life being abused and neglected. In the US a senator was working on a documentary about the child trafficking going on within cps and she suddenly ended up murdered in her home along with her husband. Statistically children are 6 times more likely to die in foster care than in the general population. My state has banned all abortions and I argued with my neighbor about the need to make sure the resulting children are fed, but she was against that. So she wants the babies born, but not ensured they're taken care of afterwards?? Yet the states has so much food waste. The whole system is insane.
@@ContactsNfilters As my American friend says 'They're not pro life, they're pro birth.'
The fact that you are giving birth and going to a party in the same day AS A MOTHER gives a lot of perspective into what Keli was capable of doing. If you think I am a hypocrite, please let me know if you find another person around you that has given birth and went to a party in the same day.
Obviously had active sex life without contraception how reckless was that plus who could imagine going out socially straight away after birthing a child. She must be tough
I believe she does know where the baby's body is, but she's so used to lying, and so deep in those lies, that she feels she has to continue to go along with it.
after all of those back and forth ...
everyone is so focused on Kelli ... only a few have ever focused on a 2 day old baby who's gone missing since the day she left the hospital with her so-called mom.... I just hope that people who support Kelli would also remember to feel sorry about the lost baby... who up to now has no record of her existence since she left that hospital...
Absolutely!!!!!! Tegan, the victim, is lost in all this.
This case has always frustrated me, such a mystery, sort of.......
Sort of. ... and yet also not.
Best case, if any wise man ran across that broken physco he'd have a REALLY HARD time justifying hauling his little girl into that drama circus. That woman had babies for tools to deal with her own issues and desires. I get a lot of people do that. But also. I'm not sure I could haul my kid into that. Its not like you could pop up and leave again. That crazy woman and the media and her town and her family would forever have access to your child. Just. As a child who dealt with something similar, it's nice to dream a little girls knight in shining armor came when she was a baby and protected her from her own mother's side of her family.
Had she had contraception, none of this would have happened 😢
If any of her partners had used contraceptives it wouldn’t have happened either.
If this girl could actually say the truth she would actually help herself. If the baby is still alive and she gave it away, she should say it. She should say who she gave it away to. The fact that she says nothing shows she is hiding something. The truth may be uglier.
If the baby was alive of course why wouldn’t she tell where it is? The fact is? I feel the baby’s been killed and it’s a very grey area.
Thankyou yet again. ❤ from Australia ❤
Tegan was her responsibility and then she's disappears without a trace. That's all the fact that is needed. The man she handed her baby to is Jason Bourne apparently, completely untracable for decades. Heart of stone apparantly too, because he could still save her from jail at any time by coming forward, but he maintains his cover. Must have contacts to forge id documents to give Tegan a new identity too. Unbelievable the sympathy this woman is getting.
Yep. Her story, and therefore defence, was ludicrous! Not only do you have to believe that 'Andrew' just disappeared, but also his Mum and 'Mel'. And if we entertain the idea that 'Andrew' took the baby to raise it, we also have to believe that in all this time, with all the media exposure this case has received, no one in his social, family or work sphere from that time has ever thought 'huh, that was weird when Andrew and Mel from Manly became instant parents around the time Tegan Lane was born, I wonder if I should contact the police?'
Nowadays, in many places, an infant can be left in a hospital or at a fire station. I don’t know if she had this option.
I do know, both from study and professional experience, that the maladaptive desire to become pregnant again very soon after an abortion is not as uncommon as one might expect. I have also occasionally seen it in young women who have given up their newborn for adoption. Because of this, caution should be taken in urging young women to give up their baby for adoption, and recommend psychiatric evaluation to ascertain if this is likely to occur. If the young woman is judged likely to pursue a replacement pregnancy before her life situation improves, continued counseling and support should be available.
I’m glad I’m not a crook because I don’t know if there’s a good one, or decent. They all sound like high school bully the way they twist truth and lie.
I’ve been in her shoes twice, I have taken care of dozens of babies and to harm one in any way is clearly inhuman. Most people would rather be killed before a baby was going to be the victim of a malignant narcissist.
Another great story told by Casefile. Thx
what a truly RANCID individual Kelli is. Poor Tegan.
And to keep having sexual relations and getting pregnant and giving birth to all these babies unbelievable
This reminds me of the Casey Anthony case. She had Manny the Nanny and Kelly had Morris Norris.
Zanny the nanny... Aka zanax
She gave her daughter Xanax and probably overdosed her.
Casey anthony before Casey anthony
Found guilty with a non unanimous jury, with no real evidence and only weak circumstantial evidence, she got 18 years which is wild. She also got denied parole at her 13.5 years mark based on "No body, no parole" laws. She was found guilty 11-1.
I'd argue a child abandonment/endangerment charge is as much as you can legally sustain, though I do agree she likely caused the baby to come to death.
"Child abandonment/endangerment" makes way more sense! There's no evidence of murder but there is evidence of a child that cannot be found.
What is wild is you defending a child killer. There is no evidence the child is alive. They looked all trough Australia. They looked at all the guys with that name , nothing. That's the evidence in her case. That's why she is in prison you 🤡 .
@@GiuliaSantanaand a child that can't be found is 100 percent dead you moron
It's been proven in America that we can convict people with nobody. I do not know how it is on australia, but I do know that in Australia they have also had many other controversial convictions dealing with babies such as that woman who had her babies die due to a genetic condition (though she could be English), and the woman who had the dingo take her baby. Australia has some pretty archaic views regarding mothers.
@@katelynbrown98I know you can, but that usually requires stronger evidence.
The no body problem is that the law means without a body she cannot be PAROLED which is insane because what if she truly is innocent? There's no way for her to comply with that law to get parole she HAS to wait until her full sentence runs which is insane.
One of the repeated statements that stands out to me is that " she had no history of violence".She attempted to abort a baby at six and a half months by lying about her stage of pregnancy. Pretty violent, I would say, and that violence was directed toward a baby, her baby.
While it's important to remember that we the pubic only know the information we are fed by the police, courts, and media, and therefore perhaps there may be some room within unknown or withheld information that could potentially add weight to Keli being innocent, on balance there's seems to be so much inconsistency and lies in Keli's story (or multiple stories) that it's very hard not to concede she is guilty of disposing of her baby daughter. Perhaps it's conceivable that a man raising a child on his own might have chosen to live so remotely as to not know about the case of missing Tegan or to remain unknown to anyone around them, but with his mother and partner allegedly also forming part of the story, it seems highly improbable to me that all of them would be ignorant of this case, even if they were living abroad. I don't think Keli Lane is a bad person necessarily, I think she is someone who was unable to manage her life, her feelings, her needs and the apparent expectations put upon her, and her children paid the price for that.
Omg a crazy 304 goes to prison, and everyone cries.
The exact same scrutiny happens to me as well
Heartbreaking story. Teegan Lane deserves justice. 🕊 #JusticeForTeegan
She may have actually made the Olympic team if she hadn't been repeatedly pregnant and recovering from births. She certainly would have performed better at least, had her body not been going through that level of physical stress from giving birth, and mental stress from trying to hide it... So incomprehensible.
Thanks Matey 👍
Hi
I think this is the case that Kelly will go to her grave only knowing the answer… I often wonder if it had not been discovered she had Teagan to begin with whether she would’ve ever told anyone. I truly believe she knows where that child is and what became of her Perhaps on her deathbed confession. ? The manhours worked of police, the emotions of all, and the tragedy of a baby, sigh… So very sad all of it 😢
Good case CF 👍🇨🇦
If the babe were still alive she would only need t tell the truth and allow the child ( would be adult now) to be found. However she has been in prison since 2010. She have been paroled, I think this year, but she refuses to say what she did with the baby, or reveal what she did with the body.
If the child is living...what is her problem? I believe the baby died in 1996.
I can’t figure out how she got away with wearing a cream suit 2 days after giving birth 😆
Ok, so hear me out..... what if Andrew Norris was an alias, and he told kelli that he would take the baby. Presumably, he did, but...... what if he gave the baby away or sold her? That would explain why kelli keeps saying she gave him the child. Also, when kelli found out a few people knew if her pregancy but didn't say anything the question is, "Why did she keep those pregnancies a secret? Why go through all that if she didn't want to hide the pregnancies? Her friends suspected that she wanted to keep things private, but she never admitted to being pregnant. Tegan could be alive and unaware of who she is.
If I remember everything correctly, they never mentioned thinking that she was pregnant until after the case was investigated. They didn't ask her if she was pregnant when she was actually pregnant. My memory of the case might be incorrect though.
IMO you are not rehabilitated without an admission of guilt. No admission of guilt = no realisation of wrong doing = no time served, so stay put until you admit to guilt and come to terms with all that that means.
But many folk are innocent in prison and the authorities know it. She’s not I think she dumped the baby. Her family stood by all this so they would have stood by and helped her give the baby up and then get her on birth control I don’t believe she was on it all those years 5 pregnancies by pregnancies 3 surly you know it’s not working.
Lots of aspects of this remind me of the Casey Anthony case.
Keli Lane: Baby killer is thrown back into Silverwater Prison after being caught breaking key condition while on day release
By Pranav Harish For Daily Mail Australia
07:31 27 Feb 2024, updated 15:50 22 Oct 2024
Another potential scenario...she was having an affair with a man giving a false name who may have been married. Once giving birth, she handed the baby over to him, and he either gave the baby up or "disposed" of it. This would explain why he never came forward. Just an idea. I'd love to know if a composite sketch of him was released to the public, but now that I wrote this, I think I remember it being mentioned.
I cant believe her parents really never noticed all these pregnancies. Their teenage daughter. Thats really odd. I also dont understand why she didnt get abortions shes clearly not opposed to it and murdering a living breathing infant is so much worse.
Well she did try to dupe a clinic into giving her a late stage abortion so I don’t think she had too much respect for life whichever way you look at it.
Why did she not use contraception
She did, but maybe she wasn’t good at taking it correctly
@robyn7287 too many young teenagers use contraceptive pills incorrectly. Some only use it when theyre about to have sex. They're too closed to not use condoms on top of contraceptives
Of course you get news contraceptive. No one gets pregnant five times using contraceptives. Why everyone believes that she did is a mystery to me. She lied about everything!
it was stated multiple times she did, but her history of excess drinking likely made it ineffective
I don't understand how the excess drinking could have made her bc pills ineffective, unless she was only taking her daily pills after she had already started drinking, & then drinking to the point of vomiting the pills up every single day... That's not logical that she could have been such a serious alcoholic while also being an athlete. More likely that she wasn't really on the pill, or at least not consistently.
23:47 this is traumatic. I don't understand why they couldn't just use condoms on top of the pill. She obviously knew the pill alone wasn't working or they weren't using it correctly
When you do a 2 episode program, I nip over to search what happened
So if Kelli is allowed out, then she benefits from the fact this child is still missing and no one has taken accountability for her missing. I agree with the "where's the body" law. If a jury found these people guilty due to the evidence presented, then there was ample proof they committed the murder and therefore need to be held accountable. Until Kelli admits to what she did to Teagan and stops her pathological behaviour, she remains behind bars. As for the "slut shaming" everyone is mentioning, a rapist is taken to count for his "encounters/victims" via his previous record, so should she. And again this case is about a little innocent baby that by all intents and purposes is dead. This "Norris/Morris" is a figment of Kelli's pathology. Once she accepts that she did it and explain where she put the body, then she can begin healing and that little angel can be laid to rest.
That's the thing, there's no evidence that people who are accused of murder & the body isn't found actually did the crime innocent people will always get caught up In such a law.
If, if she is alive, why have they not concidered that the new parents hadnt changed the name of the child? Maybe that is why there is no record of said child.
Is there something wrong with her intellectual capacity to reason? How does she keep making the exact same mistake over and over again (unprotected sex) knowing where it gets her, and then secondly not noticing she’s pregnant until far too late over and over and over again. Like 5 times. This is beyond belief for me. I need some explanation other than “I don’t know”.
She was actually on birth control when she got pregnant. JS
@@wiebkescantick947so she claimed
@@wiebkescantick947well by baby 4 surly she knew it wasn’t working a coil could have been fitted if she got birth control in the first place she could have said hey this isn’t working. I question everything she says how many lies will she give and how are we to know what’s truth. Two abortions and three more pregnancies seems she is old enough to have sex and be on birth control she’s an intelligent athlete it wasn’t 1950s something isn’t right with her. Leaving a baby somewhere might not be killing it but it is by default. She clearly has justified it in her mind and has convinced herself she didn’t kill any baby but what a mess and 4 other children grow up with scars being part of all this.
@@wiebkescantick947 5 times? Nah.
You just answered why she killed Tegan...Parental expectation. Artifice, shes all about the superficial, The personality disorder she has is called malignant Narcissism.
Gosh, why couldnt she use birth control like an IUD? Or completley abstain?
46:13 when the defendant clearly has done everything possible to make themselves unreliable, I think that can substitute for beyond reasonable doubt in a more classic sense. She persistently lied and lied and lied, most likely because the children who lived may have barely done so, and I suspect there may be a fetish at play in a young woman who simply refuses to control her impulses but is organized enough to deceive people for years. Considering her pattern of skipping birth control with a likely motive of harm or malice, she is a huge threat to society. She believed the world owed her an easy life. In cases without much physical evidence, we cannot continue to tolerate wildly obvious lying and call it “not guilty.” If you have the ability to make sense but refuse to do so, the only reasonable conclusion is that you have done the crime or worse. Esp in situations where people have a preference for victims they can create quickly & easily. She likes harming the babies or making their lives uncertain/diffixult. I think she’s clearly a hardcore psychopath
Kelli Should've just told the truth from the beginning.
I have followed this case intensely. Several things are new or different.
i believe she's guilty
Why not just use the right birth control? Very baffling.
Also, being up for parole EARLY doesn’t mean she served her time! When the time is up she will be released.
This is insane. You cant be a part of society without birth records. Also dna stuff like my heritage.
The kid is gone. This is horrible. Unbelievable, even.
God this is reminding me of that mum in Australia who had like 9 kids die.she went to jail for ages but recently was set free because it turned out it was a rare genetic thing.
But I think this chick in this story killed her kid
The fuck, Maurice!
Omg. Kelly. You demented idiot. I suck a lot sometimes but this is wrong town.
Hi All from UK !!
Hi from uk also
This case was always strange, but there is little evidence. Keli is a pathological liar, but is she a murderer. I find it ridiculous that her parole was denied earlier this year, she deserves to be let out even the sentencing judge has stated this.
Why do you think she needs to be paroled
1:12:45 The comment of this Dr really frustrates me. It is not as simple as 'the public prefer to believe a mother would kill her a baby before beleiving a father would take custody of the baby and disappear' and a learned person such as herself must well know that! Come on! Did 'Andrew', 'Mel' and Andrew's Mum immediately leave the country or state with Tegan (even though they only made the decision to take Tegan mere days/hours before)?. Did they immediately go no contact with any family, friends or acquaintances? And they asked for no proof from Keli of her pregnancy or the babies paternity? She tells no one in her life about 5 pregnancies and conceals them well, however apparently she decides to tell Andrew and also tell him that he is the father and he just takes her at her word and says 'cool, give me a call when you give birth and Mel, Mum and I will pick the baby up, no questions asked, don't have to talk to any medical staff, get discharge or follow up info, complete any documentation, just bring the baby out and we'll take it from there' And presumably they promised 'we'll never tell another living soul about this' because this is Manly, Andrew and Keli allegedly met at a local pub, so one would think they may have circles that intersect and Keli, who does not even trust her lifelong girlfriends with this secret goes 'yep, Andrew, who has been having an affair with me for 6 months while he is in a serious relationship with another woman, seems a super trustworthy, stand up guy. Sold'. Then this man, 2 women and a baby just disappeared. That's crazy talk.
Wtf did she keep getting pregnant? As a woman who couldn't have children i find this very disturbing
i am australian, and I remember this whole case as it unfolded. Difference between Aussies and w o g s like me, who were BORN AND RAISED in Australia to immigrant parents.... W t F F F F was with her parents??? I put on 3 kgs over Xmas and my Greek mumma REMINDS me every day how i look pregnant.... and I am a MALE. Yet this woman Kelli goes through what, 3, 4 7 or 10 or whatever full term pregnancies and her parents dont notice??? Yeh, nah, sorry bro, not buying it AT ALLLLLL
What a psychopath.
Keli somehow put a mental block on her pregnancies until she had no choice but to face up and give birth. She ultimately did right by babies Kayla and Jacob. However, I do believe that whatever happened to baby Tegan is too awful for Keli to face up to and so it is also now mentally blocked within the mind of Keli.
Seems like one potential logical explanation. She also may not have realized she was pregnant due to her extreme physical activities. It can actually interfere with menstrual cycles and by the time she realized she was pregnant it was too late for an abortion. It also seems obvious to me by some of the comments she was said to have made that she didn't feel seen, heard, or truly cared for by anyone and that may have assisted in her denial of the pregnancies. In my opinion, there are so many potential scenarios with this case. I don't know why, but my gut tells me she didn't kill the baby.
There’s no evidence she was a bad mother to emily, and there is similarly no evidence that in the years after Tegan’s disappearance, she was a danger to children. So like, what is even the point of incarcerating someone for that long if everyone acknowledges that she’s not an imminent danger to the community? You’re robbing a child of their mother to get justice for another child that nobody has been able to prove is deceased! What kind of logic is this?
"Another child" had a basic right to live too. Nobody has proved she is deceased, but nobody is able to prove she is alive aither and at the time of her dissapearance she was in a legal custody of the woman who had bithed her. I can imagine the moral dilemma and anguish of people who had to investigate this case and bring it to trial, but what was the alternative? By the way, I noted that Keli was offered counceling, but she rejected it. Maybe if she accepted the help she was offered the outcome would be different.
It’s about justice for Teegan
I too am disturbed by the inevitable effect on Emily. I don’t think the murder of Teegan was proven beyond a reasonable doubt; I think it might meet the standard of “preponderance of the evidence,” though.
That’s not enough, in my opinion, to put someone away for 18 years.
I would consider that her choices in giving up two babies for adoption would suggest that she was less likely to kill an unwanted baby.
As for her multiple pregnancies in her teens and early 20s, I think she wanted to be pregnant, and probably in some way, really wanted to have a baby.
The thing is the baby never went to a doctor, never had a vaccine, just disappeared... So clearly she's either not alive or was taken out of the country immediately. And this story with the father makes no sense. Absolutely nobody in her life knew about this man. Nobody ever saw her with him, there's no proof he had the baby, there's no proof he ever existed. She didn't give any information about him that can be used to trace him, even though she says she had a relationship with him for months. She also never herself try to find him. You'd think if your freedom depended on finding this person, you'd do all you can to find him... And where did she give him the baby, so that nobody saw anything? It's very improbable. The only person we know 100% was last seen with the baby is her... She knows what happened but all the accounts she gave were false. There is no reason now why she wouldn't tell the truth if she was actually innocent. But she sticks to the father story, which itself changed several times over the years. And she is known to be a great liar. So how can you trust her about this when she lied about everything else, and when there is nothing to show this man ever existed. Someone always knows about affairs, they don't happen in an alternative universe. It's not like you just see a random man and decide you're gonna have an affair and then from time to time you just materialize in the other's bedroom and have sex and then materialize back in your life and have absolutely no interaction with them except that. You meet somewhere, you have some time to get to know each other and then you start the affair and that also happens partly in public. I can't believe that it is possible to have nobody ever see you together... and with all the media attention leads should have appeared. So i don't think this man exists and her story makes very little sense. That said, i don't think they had proof enough she killed the baby. And in her own mind she might be innocent because she didn't actually kill the baby, she just disposed of her. She could have just abandoned her and probably the baby died afterwards. People do that sort of thing, just leave babies in dumpsters etc. and think that's mercy because it leaves them a chance. From my pov that is practically the same as murder, or at least manslaughter, but legally I'm not sure it's the same. Either way, in the end it comes down to somebody's word over somebody else's. There is no proof either way. I'm sure if she knew where the child was she would have said something, so she probably just left the baby somewhere. The only other possibility i can see is the baby was sold/taken out of the country and she really has no idea what happened from there. But she definitely knows more than she lets on.
I think she was so used by everyone she lost her ability to have empathy for her own children or herself
All us Aussies were stunned by this case. What an incredibly awful woman. And yes, why not just use contraception?
She did use contraception. It’s mentioned a few times. Including when prosecutor Mark Tedecski said in court he believes Kelli’s excess drinking rendered her use of contraception useless. Edited to add perhaps it’s another one of her many lies though. I believe there is something psychological going on with her. Whether the trigger was her original abortion, or even perhaps SA.
@@tara-leedawn5509the pill is only effective if you remember to take it. She was irresponsible and a liar!
Did you just comment before watching the video
She was. It is not 100% effective.
She is a pathological liar, but the rest doesn't add up. Stop shaming someone based on your own biases. I am Australian as well and many do not believe she is guilty.
I don't think she murdered Tegan. I think it's possible that this child was given over to someone and she doesn't know their real name. He may not even be the father. She lived her life in shame over her decisions. I could totally see her giving her baby to a stranger and then concocting this whole "father has daughter" story because they did an extensive search and found nothing of either of their existence. If it was a simple "father has daughter" innocent scenario there's no reason he couldn't just come forward and clear the air. I think some stranger lied about their name and she gave that person her baby so that she can move on with her life. Chances are that this baby was abused or sold or something, but that she's either dead or illegally adopted and does not have the name Tegan. I wonder if they were to put Kelli's DNA into a DNA database if they could possibly find a familial connection to Tegan.
Where is the child she gave birth to? I don’t care it was a mistrial where is her daughter? She know she abandoned that poor baby in the woods.
This is the only question that matters. She should stay in prison until the child is found.
@@cocoruseAgreed. She either killed, abandoned or sold her child. Either way she was a sociopath who only cared about herself. Zero accountability
I wonder why she didn’t just use contraception?
She was were you paying attention?
@Aryasvitkona Where was it mentioned she was using contraception? Other people have been wondering this too
@@markkromer1238a few times. Included the part about prosecutor Mark Tedeski saying Kelli’s excess drinking of alcohol rendered her use of contraception useless.
@@markkromer1238
He said she was on the pill but that it could of been rendered as ineffective due to the alcohol consumption plus the throwing up. It was around 35-45 minutes in.
Her contraception had error 304.
Fantastic coverage of this case. She is guilty imo. I’m a Manly Girl and I remember this case well.
Jesus christ the comments. The evidence for her conviction was extremely flimsy. People saying she should be doxxed or deserved what she got are out of rheir mind. You might as well lock up anyone that gives you bad vibes even if you have no evidence, with that mindset
People have as much regard for her as she had for the babies she kept pumping out. Zero
She’s a compulsive liar, that’s enough evidence for me and a lot of other people. I have no sympathy for her, she put herself in the position she’s in.
I still believe she sold or gave away that baby. This woman is despicable!
Did she sell her baby? Or give it to someone who sold her?
There are so many similarities to Casey Anthony I can’t believe it
I bet it was chuck Norris 🤪
She did think of mur dering a baby when she sought an abor lion at over 6 months imo
What’s amazing to me is how Casey Anthony case was such an obvious concluding with sniffer dogs located the smell and dna in Casey’s trunk, the body is found with little stickers on her close to her home … and yet she was found not guilty.
This one has no dna, no body , no sniffer dogs, nothing and she is guilty because of laws. I think the jury got it right asking to not conclude guilt or not but convicted her of lying and obstructing justice .
Amazing how one got nothing !
Casey Anthony as guilty. This one she may be guilty but it definitely was not proven not proven by the crown! JMO
Maybe she left the baby somewhere and as a liar made up the story of Norris. Maybe someone found the baby and kept it or sold it.
fantastic constitution
Has she not heard of contraception? 🤔
It is literally stated in the episode that the pill failed her because of frequent vomiting.
@@justhannah3960 yes, and there's other forms of contraception!
Obviously none of her sexual partners had.
@Dances.In.Storms At the very least the pull out method is always available?
Not guaranteed, but better than nothing at all.
32:43 bro what???
Maybe the father lied about his identity
Yes. Yes she did.
She's a psychopath
That was a good podcast. Kelli was a sociopathic liar. I hope Maurice is truthful. She still left the child for dead.
Bummer...no part 2
She was the original Casey Anthony.