This video explains the theory, basic internal components, and operation of electronically commutated motors (ECM). www.regalbeloit.com/Brands/Ge... MCV18162E
"You may be asking yourself 'why make a motor so complicated?'". Yes I am. I replaced a 35-year old unit that still ran, and 5 years later your wonderful ECM motor gave up. It had ONE job....
Great tutorial on clever tech. I just had my 10 yr old ecm furnace blower motor replaced for the low, low price of $700. When I asked the service tech WtF, he said "ecm motor". So here I am. Sure, it's more efficient during its brief lifetime. But instead of being a cheap lifetime purchase, it cost me $70/yr for replacement cost. The probability that it saves $70/yr in electricity, seems quite low.
Just replaced an ECM condenser fan motor today. The band new condenser unit was installed 3 years ago, now the ECM motor from your company stopped working. I replaced it with a regular PSC motor
In terms of overall comfort and nice slow start/stopping it's a nice design for homeowners that don't care to listen to the sound of the furnace while also saving a couple dollars in hydro consumption. They can drop to ridiculously low rpms for continuous fan operation that a psc cannot do. However, once that module fails and needs replacing, the manufacturer is laughing their way to the bank with the cost of the replacement that consists of about $50 or less in electronic parts is somewhere between $600 to over $1000 just for the module, not even including a motor!
i definitely understand why ECMs are attractive for system designers. but the reliability issues and the non-repairability of the drivers is why i'd rather use a 3 phase motor and a vfd. vfds are cheap, and so are inverter duty motors from companies like Weg. sure you have to locate the vfd in an enclosure with surge protection, but ones from good companies like Fuji Electric will last for decades, and are completely repairable, because the circuits are not potted in epoxy. Fuji has been making vfds since the 70s so they know what's up.
with gas systems, the blower motor is in the furnace to force air through the heat exchanger to heat your home or force air through the ac coil to cool your home
Are all ECM created equal with Chinas best? You should address the quality process your company has in place to manage warranties and failures analysis. Why are ECM much less reliable than PSC? (cost savings are spent in parts) What blows up the MOSFET Transistor pairs that commute the stator coil ???
I'm an HVAC student. The wingdings and rotor never break. The DC converters and microprocessor reliable but can break. If there is a problem it is usually in the controller. Unfortunately replacing an old controller can be as expensive as a new motor. In PSC motors The Capacitors constantly break and when they do it can damage the expensive hermetically compressors. They are attached to. They are supposed to last 60k hours but never last that long in real life conditions with voltage spikes. I'm confident enough to buy stock in ECMs that it will replace the old motors.
@@thewallstreetjournal5675 Wait what? You are an HVAC (student)? I am an HVAC tech with 31 years experience in the field working on central cooling and heating systems day in and day out. And I am going to tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about. ECM technology IS NOT more reliable. It is far less reliable and in some cases four times more expensive than a PSC motor. I have probably replaced 50,000 capacitors and none of them have ever damaged a compressor because compressors, fan motors are all thermally protected. I have listened to countess customer complaints where the ECM motor has failed after only 2 years when their old system that had PSC motor lasted 15 years. They fail far to easily to any kind of voltage spike or surge where PSC motor didn't. Furthermore when one of these ECM motors fails you must have the factory motor to fix it. I remember the days when I could get a universal motor off my truck and get the customer working again in about 20 minutes. Today you have to special order the motor and this leaves the customer down for a day or two. That does not fly very well with the customer when the weather is extreme. Only just now has someone created a universal X 13 blower motor with the evergreen motors. When you get out of school and in the field you will see what I am talking about.
@@ironphoenix5145 I'm not sold on the bad power part. My house was struck by lightning multiple times. Yeah, in central FL. No ECM failures. That's not to say they don't' fail more often than PSC. It's just that there is more to the story than what most techs focus on. I'm more willing to bet total external static is more cause for failure than "bad electricity." Of course if I installed an inverter system, I'm going to protect it with a surge supressor and or a voltage monitor.
@@ironphoenix5145 My ECM blower motor died after 27 months. Trane warranted the parts for 10 years and labor for 2 years. The installer covered the labor part even though it was 3 months past the 2 years. Took them 3 weeks to get the replacement motor. If I had to buy or pay for a new ECM motor it would of been $700 plus. An ECM motor is a little energy efficient. The slight increase in energy efficiency doesn't make up for paying $700 plus for a new motor every 2 years and waiting 3 weeks. My old PSC blower motor lasted 25 years until I bought a new AC unit and never failed. Why did the ECM motor fail? A $0.64 varistor MOV died.
@@sd906238yep. The one I just got out of scrap yard had one blown. That was likely all wrong but I don't do hvac I play with these for a PMA generator
You know what? I don't care how efficient these motors are. The truth is they are far less reliable and much more costly to the consumers. Not to mention in most cases you must have the factory replacement or it won't work. So the customer is left without cooling until the factory motor can be ordered. I miss the old days when I could go to my truck and get a universal motor and get the customer working again In 20 minutes. All of this makes ECM motors very impractical compared to PSC motors.
drives me a bit nuts that we call line phase. line 1,2,3, the phase is in the relation to any 2 lines. Phase is something you go through and back. Otherwise good info just nit picking.
Interesting. Half of a Servo Motor. Used only for variable speed. Not sure if it will replace VFD's. Too many points of failure, and lack of units in the field.
I have a a/c that has this motor driving the fan. The motor isvery expensive, as is the controller and very difficult to diagnose. I would never purchase another a/c or furnace with this technology. Much better was the older simple motor that was direct or belt driven at a reasonable replacement cost. $700.00 is way too much for a motor and $350.00 is way to expensive for the motor controller seeing they are "MADE IN CHINA". This is just greed.
What really sucks is that it is almost impossible to buy an AC system anymore that does not have some form of ECM motor. Every manufacture is putting those shitty X 13 blower motors in their systems.
My ac units (condensers with split system) are 30 years old and working fine. Superheat dialed in. Rusty but trusty carrier. No variable speed crap...and that's the way I like it
I’m loving all the hate for these motors. Just went to a thermopride today that has one of these and can’t for the life of me figure out why. It heats. That’s all it does. It needs one speed for the love of god. It’s dead I think because the condensate trap got clogged and fluttered a pressure switch on and off. This cooked the board and the motor now runs constantly never mind there is no call for the motor. Furnace is ten years old. Pretty sure I’ve seen B208 blower motors running for 25 years that have been oiled like twice….
Sorry mame your ecm failed, unlike your old motor which cost 300 are suppliers only supply the ecm with the motor. 1200$ You will save more until your warranty runs out
Oh come on.. tell us about the shitty glue affixing the magnets to the rotor core. Tell us how the glue fails, rendering the motor non-functional, as the magnets jump outward onto the stator coil cores. Tell us how 30 cents of shitty glue translates into $700 plus labor, for the homeowner who was suckered into buying this unnecessary technology when your motor fails.
It should stand for Extremely Crappy Motor. These things are a money grab and a joke. Whoever developed this technology need to be brought out behind the wood shed.
This is probably one of the worst companies out there. Genteq fan was installed on a 5 TOM Rheem unit which failed 18 months after new unit installation. It happened. Last week, the warranty replacement motor failed again also after 18 months of service. This is a $500 motor. Am I expected to continue to replace this motor every 18 months? Since you are the leader in this industry, seriously go fix your design.
Наука
"You may be asking yourself 'why make a motor so complicated?'". Yes I am. I replaced a 35-year old unit that still ran, and 5 years later your wonderful ECM motor gave up. It had ONE job....
Wow you got 5 years out of it? That's some kind of record
Just so you know, today's PSC motor won't last 35 years anymore.
@@sprockkets Why?
I fully agree. Old school PSC motors were way more stout and lasted longer.
@@sprockkets yes, so they can sell u a new motor
what a great video i learned so much thatnk you and a big thanks to terry beclker
Great tutorial on clever tech. I just had my 10 yr old ecm furnace blower motor replaced for the low, low price of $700. When I asked the service tech WtF, he said "ecm motor". So here I am. Sure, it's more efficient during its brief lifetime. But instead of being a cheap lifetime purchase, it cost me $70/yr for replacement cost. The probability that it saves $70/yr in electricity, seems quite low.
Just replaced an ECM condenser fan motor today. The band new condenser unit was installed 3 years ago, now the ECM motor from your company stopped working. I replaced it with a regular PSC motor
Good job I would have done the same thing. ECM is junk.
Excelent!!!
Is there ecm motor for golf carts?
In terms of overall comfort and nice slow start/stopping it's a nice design for homeowners that don't care to listen to the sound of the furnace while also saving a couple dollars in hydro consumption. They can drop to ridiculously low rpms for continuous fan operation that a psc cannot do. However, once that module fails and needs replacing, the manufacturer is laughing their way to the bank with the cost of the replacement that consists of about $50 or less in electronic parts is somewhere between $600 to over $1000 just for the module, not even including a motor!
i definitely understand why ECMs are attractive for system designers. but the reliability issues and the non-repairability of the drivers is why i'd rather use a 3 phase motor and a vfd. vfds are cheap, and so are inverter duty motors from companies like Weg. sure you have to locate the vfd in an enclosure with surge protection, but ones from good companies like Fuji Electric will last for decades, and are completely repairable, because the circuits are not potted in epoxy. Fuji has been making vfds since the 70s so they know what's up.
The modules does not last very long the affishantcy goes out the drain in repair cost
Correct at best you get a max 20% efficiency, not worth the cost and poor reliability.
Ive been making a E-dirt bike out of these 😂
Please explain how a driver work..thanks.
I went to a new account today where they had 21 hvac units and 5 of them had failed ECM motors
which physical phenomenon in the motor is responsible for the comfort?
with gas systems, the blower motor is in the furnace to force air through the heat exchanger to heat your home or force air through the ac coil to cool your home
Are all ECM created equal with Chinas best?
You should address the quality process your company has in place to manage warranties and failures analysis.
Why are ECM much less reliable than PSC? (cost savings are spent in parts)
What blows up the MOSFET Transistor pairs that commute the stator coil ???
I'm an HVAC student. The wingdings and rotor never break. The DC converters and microprocessor reliable but can break. If there is a problem it is usually in the controller. Unfortunately replacing an old controller can be as expensive as a new motor.
In PSC motors The Capacitors constantly break and when they do it can damage the expensive hermetically compressors. They are attached to. They are supposed to last 60k hours but never last that long in real life conditions with voltage spikes.
I'm confident enough to buy stock in ECMs that it will replace the old motors.
@@thewallstreetjournal5675
Wait what? You are an HVAC (student)?
I am an HVAC tech with 31 years experience in the field working on central cooling and heating systems day in and day out. And I am going to tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about.
ECM technology IS NOT more reliable. It is far less reliable and in some cases four times more expensive than a PSC motor. I have probably replaced 50,000 capacitors and none of them have ever damaged a compressor because compressors, fan motors are all thermally protected.
I have listened to countess customer complaints where the ECM motor has failed after only 2 years when their old system that had PSC motor lasted 15 years. They fail far to easily to any kind of voltage spike or surge where PSC motor didn't.
Furthermore when one of these ECM motors fails you must have the factory motor to fix it. I remember the days when I could get a universal motor off my truck and get the customer working again in about 20 minutes. Today you have to special order the motor and this leaves the customer down for a day or two. That does not fly very well with the customer when the weather is extreme.
Only just now has someone created a universal X 13 blower motor with the evergreen motors.
When you get out of school and in the field you will see what I am talking about.
@@ironphoenix5145 I'm not sold on the bad power part. My house was struck by lightning multiple times. Yeah, in central FL. No ECM failures. That's not to say they don't' fail more often than PSC. It's just that there is more to the story than what most techs focus on. I'm more willing to bet total external static is more cause for failure than "bad electricity."
Of course if I installed an inverter system, I'm going to protect it with a surge supressor and or a voltage monitor.
@@ironphoenix5145 My ECM blower motor died after 27 months. Trane warranted the parts for 10 years and labor for 2 years. The installer covered the labor part even though it was 3 months past the 2 years. Took them 3 weeks to get the replacement motor. If I had to buy or pay for a new ECM motor it would of been $700 plus. An ECM motor is a little energy efficient. The slight increase in energy efficiency doesn't make up for paying $700 plus for a new motor every 2 years and waiting 3 weeks. My old PSC blower motor lasted 25 years until I bought a new AC unit and never failed. Why did the ECM motor fail? A $0.64 varistor MOV died.
@@sd906238yep. The one I just got out of scrap yard had one blown. That was likely all wrong but I don't do hvac I play with these for a PMA generator
These are simply BLDC motors.
They are stepper motors with built in rectifier.
I’m only here to say for ECM motor on my three year old outside hvac compressor stopped working.
You know what?
I don't care how efficient these motors are. The truth is they are far less reliable and much more costly to the consumers. Not to mention in most cases you must have the factory replacement or it won't work. So the customer is left without cooling until the factory motor can be ordered. I miss the old days when I could go to my truck and get a universal motor and get the customer working again In 20 minutes.
All of this makes ECM motors very impractical compared to PSC motors.
drives me a bit nuts that we call line phase. line 1,2,3, the phase is in the relation to any 2 lines. Phase is something you go through and back. Otherwise good info just nit picking.
Interesting. Half of a Servo Motor. Used only for variable speed. Not sure if it will replace VFD's. Too many points of failure, and lack of units in the field.
ECM how to check
I use a 230v AC ECM motor to replace a 115v AC motor and everything works fine I'm not going to be okay
I have a a/c that has this motor driving the fan. The motor isvery expensive, as is the controller and very difficult to diagnose. I would never purchase another a/c or furnace with this technology. Much better was the older simple motor that was direct or belt driven at a reasonable replacement cost. $700.00 is way too much for a motor and $350.00 is way to expensive for the motor controller seeing they are "MADE IN CHINA". This is just greed.
What really sucks is that it is almost impossible to buy an AC system anymore that does not have some form of ECM motor.
Every manufacture is putting those shitty X 13 blower motors in their systems.
Iron Phoenix, Blame the 2019 federal efficiency standards for furnaces.
My ac units (condensers with split system) are 30 years old and working fine. Superheat dialed in.
Rusty but trusty carrier.
No variable speed crap...and that's the way I like it
These fail at approximately 35x greater rate than PSC motor, it's an awesome money maker, quality not so good.
It's an overkill for the HVAC system.
I’m loving all the hate for these motors. Just went to a thermopride today that has one of these and can’t for the life of me figure out why. It heats. That’s all it does. It needs one speed for the love of god. It’s dead I think because the condensate trap got clogged and fluttered a pressure switch on and off. This cooked the board and the motor now runs constantly never mind there is no call for the motor. Furnace is ten years old. Pretty sure I’ve seen B208 blower motors running for 25 years that have been oiled like twice….
Dude take the sticker off your new shirt ...
Sorry mame your ecm failed, unlike your old motor which cost 300 are suppliers only supply the ecm with the motor. 1200$ You will save more until your warranty runs out
Oh come on.. tell us about the shitty glue affixing the magnets to the rotor core. Tell us how the glue fails, rendering the motor non-functional, as the magnets jump outward onto the stator coil cores. Tell us how 30 cents of shitty glue translates into $700 plus labor, for the homeowner who was suckered into buying this unnecessary technology when your motor fails.
PROBSTROKER
That dude has all the NATE certs LMAO
Lol. Military bound
It should stand for Extremely Crappy Motor. These things are a money grab and a joke. Whoever developed this technology need to be brought out behind the wood shed.
junk
This is probably one of the worst companies out there. Genteq fan was installed on a 5 TOM Rheem unit which failed 18 months after new unit installation. It happened. Last week, the warranty replacement motor failed again also after 18 months of service. This is a $500 motor. Am I expected to continue to replace this motor every 18 months? Since you are the leader in this industry, seriously go fix your design.
Do you replace your filters? Do you have sufficient return air? Are your supply ducts sized properly?