Kosh knew his time was up the moment he asked the Vorlons to engage the Shadows. He knew he would die for the request, that is why he held out for so long. Their treaty mentioned that the two powers would not directly engage each other. They would use their proxies to fight for them (just like real world events playing now and the past conflicts). The accompanying novels (cant remember which Trilogy I read) went in to great details on how Kosh knew his demise
After all this time these scenes still give me chills. From Sheridan standing up to Kosh, to the Shadows being truly opposed for the first time, to Kosh being afraid to die but knowing Sheridan was right; even if the latter didn't understand the consequences yet.
@@JK-Visions I disagree. He knew just what he was doing, his last option. He had to goad Kosh into it. Kosh had to hurt him for it. Kosh had to know how deep Sheridan's convictions were and Kosh knew it meant his death. Good writing.
@@sid2112 I dont think that Kosh has really ask, must really ask other Vorlons, I believe in Kosh was a big ruler of the Vorlon Empire, maybe the oldest Vorlon who have ever live, exist, near Lorien, he was making a decision and he alone, only he alone has paid the price for it you see also how easy the vorlon ships have conquered the shadows, even the small ships was able to fight well, so it is absurd that few shadows was able to destroy him
To buy hope at such a cost, and the fact that only the Vorlons and the Shadows really knew why the war had to be fought with the younger races being devastated for little gain, as usual tragic.
My issue is why did it take the Vorlons so, long to mobilize their fleet to attack the Shadows. I mean the Vorlons knew that the younger races wouldn't stand a chance against the Shadows yet, they pushed them fight for them. And what made it even worse was that the Vorlons only shared their technology with the Minbari while the Shadows shared their technology with the Earth Alliance and the Drakh.
There was an agreement between the Vorlons and Shadows that they would not engage each other directly. Although the Shadows share their tech more freely with other races; the Vorlons gave the Minbari some pretty advanced stuff too. They also modified the younger races to be telepathic and to be more accepting towards them.
@@JK-Visions You can really see the dichotomy with the politics of the day. Like Americans fighting Russians by proxy. Even the ethos's kind of line up. If only the Vorlons and Shadows watched Libertarian Star Trek they might have left us to grow on our own.
It really shows that Kosh was an outlier among the Vorlons. He had realized that the only way forward was to let the younger races decide their own future; and he fought for them by attacking Ulkesh. The majority was blinded with pride and arrogance and only saw the younger races as subjects to be used as they desired. "You will die for us when we tell you to die, as the others know no other way."
@@sid2112 It's just the same today, with Russia (with CCP backing) vs Ukraine (with partial Western backing), The Hamsa (with several Arab nations backing) vs Israel, China vs Taiwan (not started yet but...both sides will be backed up). The world is on the edge and many societies are close too. Perhaps a 'Cleansing of the Humans' is near.
@@JH24821 I dont think that Kosh has really ask, must really ask other Vorlons, I believe in Kosh was a big ruler of the Vorlon Empire, maybe the oldest Vorlon who have ever live, exist, near Lorien, he was making a decision and he alone, only he alone has paid the price for it you see also how easy the vorlon ships have conquered the shadows, even the small ships was able to fight well, so it is absurd that few shadows was able to destroy him
I dont think that Kosh has really ask, must really ask other Vorlons, I believe in Kosh was a big ruler of the Vorlon Empire, maybe the oldest Vorlon who have ever live, exist, near Lorien, he was making a decision and he alone, only he alone has paid the price for it you see also how easy the vorlon ships have conquered the shadows, even the small ships was able to fight well, so it is absurd that few shadows was able to destroy him
@@JK-Visions also Lorien has said that about his own race (the first ones), that the most of them are died by sickness or accidents, by old age, also when they was immortal I think Kosh was near to Lorien, so he has ask nobody, others have consult him
Both of their ships can be sent without actual Vorlons or Shadows in them and can fight independently. It looked to me like Kosh sacrificed himself to get the Vorlons angry. Also, Kosh wasn't actually gone at the end of that episode, part of him was still in Sheridan.
Kosh knew his time was up the moment he asked the Vorlons to engage the Shadows. He knew he would die for the request, that is why he held out for so long.
Their treaty mentioned that the two powers would not directly engage each other. They would use their proxies to fight for them (just like real world events playing now and the past conflicts).
The accompanying novels (cant remember which Trilogy I read) went in to great details on how Kosh knew his demise
But they weren't. The Shadows were fighting themselves they weren't just using proxies they were directly attacking.
After all this time these scenes still give me chills. From Sheridan standing up to Kosh, to the Shadows being truly opposed for the first time, to Kosh being afraid to die but knowing Sheridan was right; even if the latter didn't understand the consequences yet.
Kirk never said "Up yours!" to a godlike race. Points to Sheridan.
Yeah he was totally mentally insane at that moment. But it was do or die anyway.
@@JK-Visions I disagree. He knew just what he was doing, his last option. He had to goad Kosh into it. Kosh had to hurt him for it. Kosh had to know how deep Sheridan's convictions were and Kosh knew it meant his death. Good writing.
@@sid2112 I dont think that Kosh has really ask, must really ask other Vorlons, I believe in Kosh was a big ruler of the Vorlon Empire, maybe the oldest Vorlon who have ever live, exist, near Lorien, he was making a decision and he alone, only he alone has paid the price for it
you see also how easy the vorlon ships have conquered the shadows, even the small ships was able to fight well, so it is absurd that few shadows was able to destroy him
Well, Kirk _did_ say, “Excuse me☝🏻, what does God need with a starship?”
Bruce Boxlietners' finest acting yet
To buy hope at such a cost, and the fact that only the Vorlons and the Shadows really knew why the war had to be fought with the younger races being devastated for little gain, as usual tragic.
Well , history proves that hope of victory is not required for humans to fight . At least hope for individual survival .
Humans tend to fight all the harder when hope is lost.
Yes this was a great scene..between CJS..and Kosh..he was desperate..and mad..
My issue is why did it take the Vorlons so, long to mobilize their fleet to attack the Shadows. I mean the Vorlons knew that the younger races wouldn't stand a chance against the Shadows yet, they pushed them fight for them. And what made it even worse was that the Vorlons only shared their technology with the Minbari while the Shadows shared their technology with the Earth Alliance and the Drakh.
There was an agreement between the Vorlons and Shadows that they would not engage each other directly. Although the Shadows share their tech more freely with other races; the Vorlons gave the Minbari some pretty advanced stuff too. They also modified the younger races to be telepathic and to be more accepting towards them.
I had a bigger beef with the Vorlons honestly. The Shadows did what the shadows always did. The Vorlons dropped the ball and billions died.
Never trust the big guys. I was really surprised when the Vorlons went all in and became mass murderers.
@@JK-Visions You can really see the dichotomy with the politics of the day. Like Americans fighting Russians by proxy. Even the ethos's kind of line up.
If only the Vorlons and Shadows watched Libertarian Star Trek they might have left us to grow on our own.
It really shows that Kosh was an outlier among the Vorlons. He had realized that the only way forward was to let the younger races decide their own future; and he fought for them by attacking Ulkesh. The majority was blinded with pride and arrogance and only saw the younger races as subjects to be used as they desired. "You will die for us when we tell you to die, as the others know no other way."
@@sid2112 It's just the same today, with Russia (with CCP backing) vs Ukraine (with partial Western backing), The Hamsa (with several Arab nations backing) vs Israel, China vs Taiwan (not started yet but...both sides will be backed up). The world is on the edge and many societies are close too. Perhaps a 'Cleansing of the Humans' is near.
@@JH24821 I dont think that Kosh has really ask, must really ask other Vorlons, I believe in Kosh was a big ruler of the Vorlon Empire, maybe the oldest Vorlon who have ever live, exist, near Lorien, he was making a decision and he alone, only he alone has paid the price for it
you see also how easy the vorlon ships have conquered the shadows, even the small ships was able to fight well, so it is absurd that few shadows was able to destroy him
I dont think that Kosh has really ask, must really ask other Vorlons, I believe in Kosh was a big ruler of the Vorlon Empire, maybe the oldest Vorlon who have ever live, exist, near Lorien, he was making a decision and he alone, only he alone has paid the price for it
you see also how easy the vorlon ships have conquered the shadows, even the small ships was able to fight well, so it is absurd that few shadows was able to destroy him
Perhaps because he was alone on the station. He said there weren't many vorlons left even though they can't die. Perhaps war attrition or accidents.
@@JK-Visions also Lorien has said that about his own race (the first ones), that the most of them are died by sickness or accidents, by old age, also when they was immortal
I think Kosh was near to Lorien, so he has ask nobody, others have consult him
Both of their ships can be sent without actual Vorlons or Shadows in them and can fight independently. It looked to me like Kosh sacrificed himself to get the Vorlons angry. Also, Kosh wasn't actually gone at the end of that episode, part of him was still in Sheridan.
@@burstcity3832shadows ships need a sentient cpu, Vorlons ships don't.