I remember riding on the ST buses with outside stairs as a kid in the 1940’s. Thanks Leon for the driving lesson with no synchromesh gear box, no power steering, no power brakes. Must have been great fun weaving in and out the horse and carts of the time.
Thanks Leon. I thoroughly enjoyed this video. My father was a professional coach captain here in Australia in the 50's and 60's. He would have enjoyed watching too, but he is no longer with us. Old bus drivers never die, they simply change lanes.
Always nice as a Bromley lad seeing a Bromley to Hayes route board, I remember as a young lad when the 1 and 47 used to run into Bromley with the 1 being a RM and a 47 being a RT. One of my favourite jaunts was getting the staff 94 which ran from New Cross garage down to Lewisham, then to Bromley down to Green St Green then into Orpington then round Foots Cray to Sidcup depot then turned around to run back to Lewisham to then start its normal run to and from Orpington via Bromley. Then they shaved off half the route and renamed it 261 with the 94 going to west london routes, I do remember the early 261's were still RT's then RM's then MCWs in yellow and blue. I think the funniest run was the RT run 410 from Bromley North where it was exciting to see the driver fighting the very steep windy Biggin Hill down to Westerham and you could hear all sorts of sweary words as the wheezy ol' RT's were just not built for that hill, more funny going up from Westerham and virtually every car tailing behind beeping their horns and swearing at the poor driver as the RT wheezed and puffed its way up in first gear mainly and sometimes the driver would stop and give the engine some beans dropping the clutch on the rev to get it moving again. I actually got to drive at Catford bus garage a RT in the 70's, a bunch of us kids helped out sweeping out and cleaning buses for a bit of pocket money and when elf n safetee decided we were a liability banned us from the depot so as a thank 'ee kindly we got to gingerly have a go riding on the drivers lap doing the steering bit and he did the pedals as the clutches were abs brutes on them beasties.
As a nipper, I always looked out for this bus at Belmont, serving as a canteen, when going in a D to Sutton from Tadworth on route 80A. I also recall once seeing her at night pulling away from the traffic lights by The Cock pub in Sutton whilst on her way to Sutton garage. Was any other Tilling ST used as a canteen there? I enjoyed several rides in her on route 100 in my employer's time, although once the 4-ton Dennis was used. I also remember going in a Tilling ST that was in the Special Events fleet. Mum and I were standing at the now long-gone Tattenham Corner station bus stop (the one that used to be by the station access road) and seeing a brand new RT being followed by the ST coming across the downs from the grandstand. I asked Mum if we could "go on the bus with the open stairs" and so we did. This must have been no later than 1949, when I was five but of course have no idea as to the bus's identity, unfortunately. By the way, whilst noting that the ST is now in Tilling livery, I also note that the Museum has kept the starter-motor...
Thanks for the cab view and taking me back to the late 1950s ERF fitted with a contractors flat bed body, Gardener 5 cylinder engine and crash box. No power steering or brakes, but I did fit a cruise control being a stick that jammed under the dash and held the throttle wide open at 45 mph. In an emergency a kick would send the stick flying. The first time driving a crash box I was told to count lamp post between up changes, trouble was I was heading west into countryside with very few lamp posts. But I soon copped on and only used the clutch for 1st gear changes. I did find a photo of the truck fully restored in the livery of Chas. Brand and Son Ltd. Civil Engineering Contractors. I love to meet the owner and share some tales. Later in life I bought a wooden 30ft cabin cruiser built in 1930 with twin Penter engines, built in Castleford she made her way down to the Thames. In 1940 she was commandeered by Tough's boatyard and went down the Thames to be manned by a Royal Navy crew and sailed across to Dunkirk, spent three days there picking troops off the beach and transporting them to ships offshore. Returning to UK heavily loaded and holed at the waterline. She spent the rest of WWII patrolling the Thames Estuary for enemy parachute mines. Attending the Oostende At Anchor classic boat rally a group of us Dunkirk Little Ships were invited to attend a service to commemorate the restoration of the bow of Royal Navy ship that rammed a lock in WWII. We were transported there aboard an old bus very similar to the AEC, I think it came over from Hastings ???. The journey there was a bit chilly and also the service. the bus would not start for our return so we gave it a push start all 15 of us away it roared and we'd warmed ourselves up a bit. A few coffees with brown milk aboard our boats finished the warm up. As a kid during winter our favorite seat on the pre Routemaster's was downstairs right at the front, so we could put our cold feet on the gearbox plate. Thanks for posting and jogging this 79 YO brain box. great presentation from the cab. PS. Ham River Gravel at Waltham Cross had a fleet of AEC one eyed Nelsons tipper trucks that would have been 1950s models. One eyed Nelsons because they had a single seat bus type cab.
Reminds me about when I learned to drive, aged 14 (courtesy of an Army instructor at ACF camp in Oswestry) in an Austin K9 1 ton truck. With just the three gears in an all crash box. Mind you I only had to use second and third. Happy days.
From personal experience, I know that this old girl climbs like a mountain goat and will trundle round in central London traffic with very little gearchanging necessary once on the move and it is a dream in traffic too. It also has a bigger engine than the original, which was the 6.1 litre, overhead camshaft petrol as fitted in T 31. It was replaced many years ago in preservation by the late Prince Marshall with the bigger 7.4 litre version which makes it a very kind beast to drive as the low speed torque of that engine is legendary. It is geared for London service so it will push up to about 40 if driven hard but speeds are hard to judge from the cab as the engine is relatively quiet and never seems to be working hard. Sadly, the fuel consumption on a longish journey is legendary at about 3.5 miles to the gallon. When petrol was about 11d a gallon it was sustainable. Like T 31, there is no legal rquirement for it to be fitted with a speedometer but the two are as different as chalk and cheese for I know for a fact that T 31 will touch 60 m.p.h. I know that as I took it down to Guildford for MoT many years back and the late Bill Cottrell was following me in his car to bring me back to the Cobham Museum and he swore he was touching 60 and was just keeping up. They might be old but there is plenty of life left in these old 'uns ! Like many of these old ladies, once on the move, it is easy to change gear without using the clutch as the A.E.C. D 124 gearbox has the constant mesh 3rd gear. That gearbox replaced the older D119 box which was all sliding mesh with no dog clutch engagement and where you actually slide the gears themselves in and out of mesh. Surprisingly, the constant mesh gearbox was first fitted in London buses in some of the S type single deckers of 1920-22 and it was universal in the NS and, I am reliably informed, in some of the later K type buses. Surprisingly, the system was dropped for early versions of the Regal, Regent and Renown series (as the D119 gearbox) but was later re-instated in the D 124, which is fitted to T 31 & ST 922 as well as LT 165 in the L.T. Museum. Examples of the original D119 box would be extremely rare these days as possibly the last surviving example I know of was in the Great Yarmouth Regent chassis which sat at the back of Cobham Bus Museum for many years. I have yet to have confirmation that it is such but it does still exist in storage with LBM
What a wonderful ride. Thanks, Leon. I passed my sem-automatic in an RT with London Transport, then later the manual in a Guy Special at Garston in advance of some Leylands coming on loan during a vehicle shortage. Fond memories from over 55 years ago.
Wonderful presentation, one of my fondest memories it taking LTM’s ST for test at Cricklewood from HT with Tim N, it had snowed over night and a very heavy frost for central London we set off about 07:00 up Highgate Hill , the Spaniards dropping down in to Golders Green with Tim giving a spirited drive smiling all the time i think ST and T with that big six cylinder petrol must be on of his favourites
Thanks Leon...what a great video ! As a driving instructor with London Country for a good few years it was so good to see an expert in the cab. Reminded me of training others to drive the Leyland PD7's that were used for training for a few short years at LCBS... known as the yellow perils. To my mind it also shows how advanced for its time LT was with the preselect Wilson gearbox. Happy memories ! Modern vehicles virtually drive themselves, very easy but fails to enforce the size and weight of the vehicle under control......
I drove for a London Coach operator in the '70's that had 3 RT's and a Regent 4 with a manual crash box, not sure the operator it came from originally but had a Lancashire Registration, two of the RT's had the upper decks and the platform rebuilt to look like ST's, one a 1939 with a 40's body having had a wartime utility previously, they both had suffered from upper deck damage from colliding with a low bridge or a tree. Rescued from a breakers yard. They were all used for US and Japanese tourists. They made a change from driving Leyland Leopards and not having to answer daft questions from the American tourists.
Great Video Beautiful bus with a great story and plenty of character ❤ Could you give more information about the Petrol Engine.... did it need cylinder head work for unleaded petrol.... how many cylinders and capacity please Many thanks
AEC manual gearboxes still sounded like that more than 30 years later. We have an open staircase double decker at Glasgow Vintage Vehicle Trust too. However the Glasgow TD1 has been refitted with a diesel for the second time.
Remember coming out of Charing Cross in the 70's, firstly seeing route 100 on the bus stop, reserved for the tourist route. I think 100 was an actual route in previous times- a Beckton route. Then I saw the ST, with it's distinct engine and clanking gear changes. Very nice actual working museum bus. The grille and wheel hubs are typical of AEC's.
I would love to drive that as trained on RTs. However, I used to train drivers on military crash gearboxes that it was only needed to feel with 2 fingers when the next gear was ready, not a fist. Don't fight the gearbox, feel it. After moving off it was possible to change gear by feeling the slack in the transmission and never using the clutch except to avoid stalling when stopping. Worked on everything from AEC militant to MAN with "clever, thinking clutches". Upset their instructors when they were proved wrong. Never mind.
Most enjoyable video, can you tell me when this type of bus was withdrawn from service the one's with the outside stairs, only I was born in 1941 and I seem to remember seeing a long line of these busses all red in North London... thanks for posting.
The ST class were mostly withdrawn in 1948 - 1950 except for a few lowbridge buses which were converted to 7.7. oil engines and they lasted until about 1952/53 when the RLH class entered service.
Then again you didn’t have a very high opinion of myself and my fellow workers at London Transport, so “LT” and “AEC/PRV” are a stumbling point with you …………..
Interesting. I used to drive Bedford OBs and Guy GSs for a small vintage operator, crash boxes but I did not have the problem of advance /retard lever, that I would have to learn. I always found the big problem was roundabouts, will it be a stop or go situation, ( same for pre select ) and getting your feet and arms tied up all over the place with the non predictable result. But a crash box was always fun, autos bored me.
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There is something magical about vehicles of this era😅
I remember riding on the ST buses with outside stairs as a kid in the 1940’s. Thanks Leon for the driving lesson with no synchromesh gear box, no power steering, no power brakes. Must have been great fun weaving in and out the horse and carts of the time.
Thanks Leon. I thoroughly enjoyed this video. My father was a professional coach captain here in Australia in the 50's and 60's. He would
have enjoyed watching too, but he is no longer with us. Old bus drivers never die, they simply change lanes.
Where does the driver hook up their Bluetooth on their phone? LOL What a great job driving, looks too complicated for me but you got it down.
Always nice as a Bromley lad seeing a Bromley to Hayes route board, I remember as a young lad when the 1 and 47 used to run into Bromley with the 1 being a RM and a 47 being a RT. One of my favourite jaunts was getting the staff 94 which ran from New Cross garage down to Lewisham, then to Bromley down to Green St Green then into Orpington then round Foots Cray to Sidcup depot then turned around to run back to Lewisham to then start its normal run to and from Orpington via Bromley. Then they shaved off half the route and renamed it 261 with the 94 going to west london routes, I do remember the early 261's were still RT's then RM's then MCWs in yellow and blue. I think the funniest run was the RT run 410 from Bromley North where it was exciting to see the driver fighting the very steep windy Biggin Hill down to Westerham and you could hear all sorts of sweary words as the wheezy ol' RT's were just not built for that hill, more funny going up from Westerham and virtually every car tailing behind beeping their horns and swearing at the poor driver as the RT wheezed and puffed its way up in first gear mainly and sometimes the driver would stop and give the engine some beans dropping the clutch on the rev to get it moving again. I actually got to drive at Catford bus garage a RT in the 70's, a bunch of us kids helped out sweeping out and cleaning buses for a bit of pocket money and when elf n safetee decided we were a liability banned us from the depot so as a thank 'ee kindly we got to gingerly have a go riding on the drivers lap doing the steering bit and he did the pedals as the clutches were abs brutes on them beasties.
Wonderful video, Leon. I'm pea green with envy as I think of the Enviro 200s I've been driving all day. Thank you for uploading this.
As a nipper, I always looked out for this bus at Belmont, serving as a canteen, when going in a D to Sutton from Tadworth on route 80A. I also recall once seeing her at night pulling away from the traffic lights by The Cock pub in Sutton whilst on her way to Sutton garage. Was any other Tilling ST used as a canteen there? I enjoyed several rides in her on route 100 in my employer's time, although once the 4-ton Dennis was used.
I also remember going in a Tilling ST that was in the Special Events fleet. Mum and I were standing at the now long-gone Tattenham Corner station bus stop (the one that used to be by the station access road) and seeing a brand new RT being followed by the ST coming across the downs from the grandstand. I asked Mum if we could "go on the bus with the open stairs" and so we did. This must have been no later than 1949, when I was five but of course have no idea as to the bus's identity, unfortunately.
By the way, whilst noting that the ST is now in Tilling livery, I also note that the Museum has kept the starter-motor...
Love the gearbox music, almost as good as a Bedford.
I also did a review of that bus back in December 2022 at the London Bus Museum inside Brooklands Museum in Weybridge Surrey
Thanks for the cab view and taking me back to the late 1950s ERF fitted with a contractors flat bed body, Gardener 5 cylinder engine and crash box. No power steering or brakes, but I did fit a cruise control being a stick that jammed under the dash and held the throttle wide open at 45 mph. In an emergency a kick would send the stick flying.
The first time driving a crash box I was told to count lamp post between up changes, trouble was I was heading west into countryside with very few lamp posts. But I soon copped on and only used the clutch for 1st gear changes. I did find a photo of the truck fully restored in the livery of Chas. Brand and Son Ltd. Civil Engineering Contractors. I love to meet the owner and share some tales.
Later in life I bought a wooden 30ft cabin cruiser built in 1930 with twin Penter engines, built in Castleford she made her way down to the Thames. In 1940 she was commandeered by Tough's boatyard and went down the Thames to be manned by a Royal Navy crew and sailed across to Dunkirk, spent three days there picking troops off the beach and transporting them to ships offshore. Returning to UK heavily loaded and holed at the waterline. She spent the rest of WWII patrolling the Thames Estuary for enemy parachute mines.
Attending the Oostende At Anchor classic boat rally a group of us Dunkirk Little Ships were invited to attend a service to commemorate the restoration of the bow of Royal Navy ship that rammed a lock in WWII. We were transported there aboard an old bus very similar to the AEC, I think it came over from Hastings ???. The journey there was a bit chilly and also the service. the bus would not start for our return so we gave it a push start all 15 of us away it roared and we'd warmed ourselves up a bit. A few coffees with brown milk aboard our boats finished the warm up.
As a kid during winter our favorite seat on the pre Routemaster's was downstairs right at the front, so we could put our cold feet on the gearbox plate.
Thanks for posting and jogging this 79 YO brain box. great presentation from the cab.
PS. Ham River Gravel at Waltham Cross had a fleet of AEC one eyed Nelsons tipper trucks that would have been 1950s models. One eyed Nelsons because they had a single seat bus type cab.
Reminds me about when I learned to drive, aged 14 (courtesy of an Army instructor at ACF camp in Oswestry) in an Austin K9 1 ton truck. With just the three gears in an all crash box. Mind you I only had to use second and third. Happy days.
From personal experience, I know that this old girl climbs like a mountain goat and will trundle round in central London traffic with very little gearchanging necessary once on the move and it is a dream in traffic too. It also has a bigger engine than the original, which was the 6.1 litre, overhead camshaft petrol as fitted in T 31. It was replaced many years ago in preservation by the late Prince Marshall with the bigger 7.4 litre version which makes it a very kind beast to drive as the low speed torque of that engine is legendary. It is geared for London service so it will push up to about 40 if driven hard but speeds are hard to judge from the cab as the engine is relatively quiet and never seems to be working hard. Sadly, the fuel consumption on a longish journey is legendary at about 3.5 miles to the gallon. When petrol was about 11d a gallon it was sustainable. Like T 31, there is no legal rquirement for it to be fitted with a speedometer but the two are as different as chalk and cheese for I know for a fact that T 31 will touch 60 m.p.h. I know that as I took it down to Guildford for MoT many years back and the late Bill Cottrell was following me in his car to bring me back to the Cobham Museum and he swore he was touching 60 and was just keeping up. They might be old but there is plenty of life left in these old 'uns ! Like many of these old ladies, once on the move, it is easy to change gear without using the clutch as the A.E.C. D 124 gearbox has the constant mesh 3rd gear. That gearbox replaced the older D119 box which was all sliding mesh with no dog clutch engagement and where you actually slide the gears themselves in and out of mesh. Surprisingly, the constant mesh gearbox was first fitted in London buses in some of the S type single deckers of 1920-22 and it was universal in the NS and, I am reliably informed, in some of the later K type buses. Surprisingly, the system was dropped for early versions of the Regal, Regent and Renown series (as the D119 gearbox) but was later re-instated in the D 124, which is fitted to T 31 & ST 922 as well as LT 165 in the L.T. Museum. Examples of the original D119 box would be extremely rare these days as possibly the last surviving example I know of was in the Great Yarmouth Regent chassis which sat at the back of Cobham Bus Museum for many years. I have yet to have confirmation that it is such but it does still exist in storage with LBM
What a wonderful ride. Thanks, Leon. I passed my sem-automatic in an RT with London Transport, then later the manual in a Guy Special at Garston in advance of some Leylands coming on loan during a vehicle shortage. Fond memories from over 55 years ago.
Excellent exhibition of how to drive a manual transmission. Takes me back to my training in a FLF.
Great video thanks for showing 👍 😊
Thanks Leon rode these just after the war when anything with wheels got out on the bus routes ours was 94 to bromley
I would feel right at home driving that bus. I have to double clutch my Model A as well, but not my Model T.
Ah yes.... the clutch-less change from a hill start right at the beginning of the PSV exam - I remember it well!
Very happy to watch this, thank you!
Wonderful presentation, one of my fondest memories it taking LTM’s ST for test at Cricklewood from HT with Tim N, it had snowed over night and a very heavy frost for central London we set off about 07:00 up Highgate Hill , the Spaniards dropping down in to Golders Green with Tim giving a spirited drive smiling all the time i think ST and T with that big six cylinder petrol must be on of his favourites
Thanks Leon...what a great video ! As a driving instructor with London Country for a good few years it was so good to see an expert in the cab. Reminded me of training others to drive the Leyland PD7's that were used for training for a few short years at LCBS... known as the yellow perils. To my mind it also shows how advanced for its time LT was with the preselect Wilson gearbox. Happy memories ! Modern vehicles virtually drive themselves, very easy but fails to enforce the size and weight of the vehicle under control......
So cool!
I drove for a London Coach operator in the '70's that had 3 RT's and a Regent 4 with a manual crash box, not sure the operator it came from originally but had a Lancashire Registration, two of the RT's had the upper decks and the platform rebuilt to look like ST's, one a 1939 with a 40's body having had a wartime utility previously, they both had suffered from upper deck damage from colliding with a low bridge or a tree. Rescued from a breakers yard. They were all used for US and Japanese tourists. They made a change from driving Leyland Leopards and not having to answer daft questions from the American tourists.
That’s Guards Coaches you’re talking about. For a couple of seasons we kept an open top D9 there for the 74Z Zoo service.
Great Video
Beautiful bus with a great story and plenty of character ❤
Could you give more information about the Petrol Engine.... did it need cylinder head work for unleaded petrol.... how many cylinders and capacity please
Many thanks
AEC manual gearboxes still sounded like that more than 30 years later. We have an open staircase double decker at Glasgow Vintage Vehicle Trust too. However the Glasgow TD1 has been refitted with a diesel for the second time.
Remember coming out of Charing Cross in the 70's, firstly seeing route 100 on the bus stop, reserved for the tourist route. I think 100 was an actual route in previous times- a Beckton route. Then I saw the ST, with it's distinct engine and clanking gear changes. Very nice actual working museum bus. The grille and wheel hubs are typical of AEC's.
I travelled on that in the early 70s when it was route 100 on London
I would love to drive that as trained on RTs. However, I used to train drivers on military crash gearboxes that it was only needed to feel with 2 fingers when the next gear was ready, not a fist. Don't fight the gearbox, feel it. After moving off it was possible to change gear by feeling the slack in the transmission and never using the clutch except to avoid stalling when stopping. Worked on everything from AEC militant to MAN with "clever, thinking clutches". Upset their instructors when they were proved wrong. Never mind.
What a great video.
Most enjoyable video, can you tell me when this type of bus was withdrawn from service
the one's with the outside stairs, only I was born in 1941 and I seem to remember seeing
a long line of these busses all red in North London... thanks for posting.
The ST class were mostly withdrawn in 1948 - 1950 except for a few lowbridge buses which were converted to 7.7. oil engines and they lasted until about 1952/53 when the RLH class entered service.
For me, a view around the ourside of the bus, as a starter, would seem essential, to set the scene
Superb!
Yes I do KNOW it's 363 days a year!!
Nice to see this venerable old omnibus being driven……. Not a mention of the AEC name though….
Then again you didn’t have a very high opinion of myself and my fellow workers at London Transport, so “LT” and “AEC/PRV” are a stumbling point with you …………..
Interesting. I used to drive Bedford OBs and Guy GSs for a small vintage operator, crash boxes but I did not have the problem of advance /retard lever, that I would have to learn. I always found the big problem was roundabouts, will it be a stop or go situation, ( same for pre select ) and getting your feet and arms tied up all over the place with the non predictable result. But a crash box was always fun, autos bored me.
40 years ago passed test in one of these ,seems weird i would have thought a routmaster or an atlantean {1980s}.
Routemaster or Atlantean only gives you automatic transmission licence. I wanted manual one!
@@leon467 Guy Arab V or Bristol Lodekka ?
We never had such things in London!!