This was an interesting video but not strongly scientific as many important variables we left un-defined so your results are dubious toward defining suitability of these materials for any given application. For instance: Was the 6061 bar stock extruded or cold finished bar/plate? What was the grain direction of the Aluminum in the test, what was the temper state? Impact tests will produce very different results unless the execution methods are very tightly controlled. What was the infill pattern of the 100% Onyx? Onyx with 25% CCF is extremely strong but without the brittleness of 100% CCF fill. The 6061 bar stock did not break but it did severely yield which in many applications equates to 100% failure. This is meant as constructive thoughts, keep honing your analytical skilz.
It looked like the Carbon fiber appears to all be concentrated in one place, but mark forged recommends sandwiching the carbon layers between the Onyx to maximize the moment of inertia. So did you use a custom fiber layout, or did you go with Default?
The fiber should be placed at the top and the bottom. The furthest from the centroid. Also, connect the top layer and the bottom layer with fibers too; but I don't know how the MF machine can do this.
In fairness, you did not apply tension to the continuous carbon fibres! The CCF cannot supply a reaction force if the fibres are not loaded in tension. You need to change the geometry of the test specimens to a square/rectangular or "beam" profile.
Thanks for testing four of the most widely used materials used for engineering and manufacturing prototypes as well as manufacturing and production. My background is in manufacturing and machining and what better place to start in Greater Cleveland Ohio. Some twenty years ago I was employed close to Akron as a machinist working with the design team at major OEM supplier of car seats and baby strollers. Our routine with the strollers was to make mockup product to be displayed at the trade shows and the purchase orders would soon follow....next stop, the Orient once we made the call, then the molds, dies, production and assembly would start. Our company had agreed to have 10,000 units ready for delivery for next Monday....our units arrived a week early so now we test the strollers. Soon after shipment arrived at the warehouse a few boxes were opened and inspection started..."Houston we have a problem!" In engineering someone decided to change a little part from aluminum to plastic, a critical part 2 of 2 latches that were used to unlock and fold the stroller in place, now they were breaking! It's now Wednesday and the Big Box store fliers will be advertised Sunday. Just think 10,000 units to unbox, dismantle, replace proper part, reassemble and replace into the box, the assemblers were on unlimited overtime. We Live , We learn Keep up the good work guy's
Note that there are many different grades of aluminum with various tempering for each so testing against 6060-T6 versus 3003-O would be completely different. Do not recall anything specifically noting grade and temper of the Aluminum
Looks like you guys had fun, you should have figured out a way to load the carbon fiber in tension(the carbon fiber would have done great in pure tension, loading it with any bending is not really the point of adding carbon fiber) and compare that to all the other samples, and figure out strength to weight.
If that carbon fiber piece were hand made in that thickness with unidirectional layup, you would probably never see any banding on that testing machine.
The thing about carbon fiber in a CCf form is not the same in a fabric form with epoxy coatings . In a CCF form to 3 d print something the carbon fiber in in a dust form less than 1.75mm as when it is in a fabric form there is what we have strings of carbon fiber to make a weave and that is what gives it's strength .
Carbon fiber might be stronger, but aluminum is tougher. You basically tested the impact toughness of the material. Most people don't realize toughness and strength are not the same thing. For example a steel blade might be strong, meaning if you place it in a vice and start adding load to it it will remain true and won't bend, flex, or experience any permanent deformation. Yet when subjected to sudden violent impact it will shatter, and break. On the other hand say blade made say from titanium in a vice with the same load will start to flex could bend either temporarily while under load or start to take a set (start to permanently bending after reaching maximum flex levels). However when subjected to the same violent impact it will not crack or shatter, but might have a slight deformation at the impact level but stay in tact. Because even though its not as strong as steel its much tougher. I believe your test proved that carbon fiber might be stiffer and stronger than aluminum but not tougher, when subjected to a violent impact it failed catastrophically.
Functional performance. The ccf material is meant to be printed with the lattice structure. The function of the printed lattice combined with the overall loss in weight while being the same dimensions as the aluminum is where the claim comes from.
Your text says it compares to Onyx is why I spent my time with this video, but you did not really compare to Onyx so that was waste of time. Still at least it appeared.
I wish I could print this with my own printer.... It's freaking incredibly. How much does the fiber filament cost? If I can make a continuous fiber filament at home then the rest isn't impossible to diy. Just an extruder and a mechanical sistor
the markforged is probably either on par or stronger than the aluminum pound for pound. However, in ultimate strength, the aluminum is definitely superior.
Load vs. deflection doesn't measure strength, but stiffness. Still, based on what you measured, you compare strength... In the graph (@3:15) you have the topic "Strenght comparison", but you speak about stiffness. @6:20 you finally admit that you didn't test strength but stiffness. WTF is this? Why didn't you talk about stiffness all the time, if you meant it? You have a nice arrangement, fine graphs etc. but all the time it seems that you don't know what are you talking about... The people came to see this video in order to see, "is Markforged Carbon Fiber 3D Printer REALLY as Strong As Aluminum?" Yet you measured other things. Even the impact test was wrong: aluminium is homogenous in all directions, but CCF isn't. It's much-much weaker in z-direction than in x/y, and you only tested the most favourable orientation. That's not just fair, in real life application the forces may occur in different directions, or, even if they don't, the geometry may not allow the CCF part to be printed in optimal orientation (in relation to the forces). There are plenty of "scientific" videos about 3D printing where they pretend they're doing a comprehensive test, but the truth is something else. People who lack the engineering background and/or thinking, form their opinions based on these kinds of videos, it's sad when misleading information is offered.
1- you know how letal nano carbon particles are? Nice you breath all them in your lungs. 2- any material can be formed/printed in hexagons or squares or or or and it is not the material but the FORM what is giving the resistance to a (any) Material.
I can make print + manual construction better than CCF. Keywords: PLA + simple post processing treatment with nylon thread & epoxy glue. This method would be a revolutionary way to get a cheap and strong 3d printed structure. DO NOT BUY expensive 3d printer, you just need to use 3d printer as it should be, think the best processing way. DO NOT MAKE them rich while we still poor.
I could be wrong, but I believe they advertise that the Onyx w/ CCF is as strong as Aluminum by weight. It's significantly less dense than Al
All strength comparisons are based on the same weight, not size.
This was an interesting video but not strongly scientific as many important variables we left un-defined so your results are dubious toward defining suitability of these materials for any given application. For instance: Was the 6061 bar stock extruded or cold finished bar/plate? What was the grain direction of the Aluminum in the test, what was the temper state? Impact tests will produce very different results unless the execution methods are very tightly controlled. What was the infill pattern of the 100% Onyx? Onyx with 25% CCF is extremely strong but without the brittleness of 100% CCF fill. The 6061 bar stock did not break but it did severely yield which in many applications equates to 100% failure. This is meant as constructive thoughts, keep honing your analytical skilz.
They say by weight... and tensile strength
It looked like the Carbon fiber appears to all be concentrated in one place, but mark forged recommends sandwiching the carbon layers between the Onyx to maximize the moment of inertia. So did you use a custom fiber layout, or did you go with Default?
The fiber should be placed at the top and the bottom. The furthest from the centroid. Also, connect the top layer and the bottom layer with fibers too; but I don't know how the MF machine can do this.
In fairness, you did not apply tension to the continuous carbon fibres! The CCF cannot supply a reaction force if the fibres are not loaded in tension. You need to change the geometry of the test specimens to a square/rectangular or "beam" profile.
In bending both compression (bottom) and tension (top) are being applied and are at equilibrium within the middle of the element.
the fibers need tension. if you were to rotate the test 90 degrees i'd image you would see the ccf part close that gap to aluminum in a hurry.
Thanks for testing four of the most widely used materials used for engineering and manufacturing prototypes as well as manufacturing and production.
My background is in manufacturing and machining and what better place to start in Greater Cleveland Ohio.
Some twenty years ago I was employed close to Akron as a machinist working with the design team at major OEM supplier of car seats and baby strollers. Our routine with the strollers was to make mockup product to be displayed at the trade shows and the purchase orders would soon follow....next stop, the Orient once we made the call, then the molds, dies, production and assembly would start.
Our company had agreed to have 10,000 units ready for delivery for next Monday....our units arrived a week early so now we test the strollers.
Soon after shipment arrived at the warehouse a few boxes were opened and inspection started..."Houston we have a problem!" In engineering someone decided to change a little part from aluminum to plastic, a critical part 2 of 2 latches that were used to unlock and fold the stroller in place, now they were breaking!
It's now Wednesday and the Big Box store fliers will be advertised Sunday.
Just think 10,000 units to unbox, dismantle, replace proper part, reassemble and replace into the box, the assemblers were on unlimited overtime.
We Live , We learn
Keep up the good work guy's
In the bend test, you are measuring modulus of elasticity. Would have been interesting to test modulus of rupture.
Note that there are many different grades of aluminum with various tempering for each so testing against 6060-T6 versus 3003-O would be completely different. Do not recall anything specifically noting grade and temper of the Aluminum
Looks like you guys had fun, you should have figured out a way to load the carbon fiber in tension(the carbon fiber would have done great in pure tension, loading it with any bending is not really the point of adding carbon fiber) and compare that to all the other samples, and figure out strength to weight.
If that carbon fiber piece were hand made in that thickness with unidirectional layup, you would probably never see any banding on that testing machine.
It will always have the same strength as any plastic in the z direction. What I mean is ,If you print those test pieces vertically.
The thing about carbon fiber in a CCf form is not the same in a fabric form with epoxy coatings . In a CCF form to 3 d print something the carbon fiber in in a dust form less than 1.75mm as when it is in a fabric form there is what we have strings of carbon fiber to make a weave and that is what gives it's strength .
Carbon fiber might be stronger, but aluminum is tougher. You basically tested the impact toughness of the material. Most people don't realize toughness and strength are not the same thing. For example a steel blade might be strong, meaning if you place it in a vice and start adding load to it it will remain true and won't bend, flex, or experience any permanent deformation. Yet when subjected to sudden violent impact it will shatter, and break. On the other hand say blade made say from titanium in a vice with the same load will start to flex could bend either temporarily while under load or start to take a set (start to permanently bending after reaching maximum flex levels). However when subjected to the same violent impact it will not crack or shatter, but might have a slight deformation at the impact level but stay in tact. Because even though its not as strong as steel its much tougher. I believe your test proved that carbon fiber might be stiffer and stronger than aluminum but not tougher, when subjected to a violent impact it failed catastrophically.
These are wrong tests, because you didn't count material density, so you have to take materials by weight, not dimensions.
Functional performance. The ccf material is meant to be printed with the lattice structure. The function of the printed lattice combined with the overall loss in weight while being the same dimensions as the aluminum is where the claim comes from.
Your text says it compares to Onyx is why I spent my time with this video, but you did not really compare to Onyx so that was waste of time. Still at least it appeared.
Tensile strength, stiffness and impact strength are independent of each other
I wish I could print this with my own printer.... It's freaking incredibly. How much does the fiber filament cost? If I can make a continuous fiber filament at home then the rest isn't impossible to diy. Just an extruder and a mechanical sistor
Would love to know too. I haven't seen any reprap style continuous fiber extruders or hotends so far.
What is yield strength you have observed with carbon fiber??
how does the weight of the aluminum bar compare to the mainly CCF markforge part
the markforged is probably either on par or stronger than the aluminum pound for pound. However, in ultimate strength, the aluminum is definitely superior.
Yes, you did measure completely different metric. And I think they claimed "stronger than aluminum per weight".
Thanks for watching, sir!
This is was kind of the dumbest and unscientific test I have ever witnessed.
I was hoping for a tensile test.. not bending test
Load vs. deflection doesn't measure strength, but stiffness. Still, based on what you measured, you compare strength... In the graph (@3:15) you have the topic "Strenght comparison", but you speak about stiffness. @6:20 you finally admit that you didn't test strength but stiffness. WTF is this? Why didn't you talk about stiffness all the time, if you meant it? You have a nice arrangement, fine graphs etc. but all the time it seems that you don't know what are you talking about...
The people came to see this video in order to see, "is Markforged Carbon Fiber 3D Printer REALLY as Strong As Aluminum?" Yet you measured other things. Even the impact test was wrong: aluminium is homogenous in all directions, but CCF isn't. It's much-much weaker in z-direction than in x/y, and you only tested the most favourable orientation. That's not just fair, in real life application the forces may occur in different directions, or, even if they don't, the geometry may not allow the CCF part to be printed in optimal orientation (in relation to the forces).
There are plenty of "scientific" videos about 3D printing where they pretend they're doing a comprehensive test, but the truth is something else. People who lack the engineering background and/or thinking, form their opinions based on these kinds of videos, it's sad when misleading information is offered.
1- you know how letal nano carbon particles are? Nice you breath all them in your lungs.
2- any material can be formed/printed in hexagons or squares or or or and it is not the material but the FORM what is giving the resistance to a (any) Material.
1) Please elaborate.
2) Okay, sir.
I can make print + manual construction better than CCF.
Keywords: PLA + simple post processing treatment with nylon thread & epoxy glue.
This method would be a revolutionary way to get a cheap and strong 3d printed structure.
DO NOT BUY expensive 3d printer, you just need to use 3d printer as it should be, think the best processing way.
DO NOT MAKE them rich while we still poor.
Horrible video. That part is not filled with CF and it probably wasn't printed on its side.