My main problem with Leo is that I either have a great game or I suffer. Nothing in-between. When the opponent knows what to do against him, it's like pulling teeth.
Leo is a character where you got to utilize all the tools and get creative. Leos style is also like a strategist. You gotta think and find the openings based on what your getting and really mix it up
Honestly a lot of the tier lists do not matter too much, some characters were clearly broken before (Drag, Azucena) and some still need tweaking but it ultimately comes down to the players, the mind games and ability to react/adapt. I find Leo incredibly flexible and while I’ll usually struggle in the first few bouts I start to assert myself in later rounds.
Leo is s tier. the man put jun at the bottom and whoooorang in the middle, nice little safe spot. he about as objective as a crocodile claiming he is vegetarian.
Any competent player that knows Leo’s moves even a little bit makes Leo’s difficulty jump by 100. A lot of characters can succeed even if you know the moveset, anyone who can sidestep can work around Leo really well
It’s just a power creep really. I’m really happy with where Leo is in the game in terms of balance and I think Leo’s gonna be very strong and dependable as the other characters get nerfed around them. Personally I’m all for characters coming down to Leo’s level. I don’t think she’s bottom 5 when Panda exists btw
Leo has never been top tier or bottom tier Leo is the character where everything is viable but nothing really stands out… a solid fundamental based character, to answer you I’d say if they are familiar fighting Leo makes things very difficult
I think one way to play Leo is like a 50/50 gorilla due to having multiple big lows (thinking of the FC low and hellsweep specifically to get opponents to duck). I think that's the most fun way to play Leo at least. Sadly there are other characters that can do it better.
Hi @ayorichie! Check the setup. after wallsplat use heatburst b14 34 db 1+2 d into bok 1+2 heatdash can mix with bok 3. Its beat every single button (only recovery hit option to survive) if he wakeup in block you get huge chip damage + 18wallmix, any ground option you can use up back 3 instead of d 3+4. And it work on bad wallsplat angle.
I'd argue that Leo's 1+2 throw has been buffed if anything since the input is not bound to a ff dash anymore, so you can throw it out from standing to while running. The dash you had to do for the throw telegraphed your intent somewhat for opponents that knew it comes only after the ff dash, they now find themselves surprise thrown from standing to while running expecting the throw mechanic to be the same as in T7 as it's still early times for T8. Also, if counter hit throws have a longer break window in general then it's a roster wide change and thus not a nerf but a neutral thing for Leo IMO.
Barking dogs seldom bites. It's not about tier lists that make or raise a character, rather it's the pure skill and character loyalty that makes the game playable. I've seen players win tournaments with kuma, Gigas and other characters that lack certain moves. So let players have their tier list because we know deep down it's based on either favouritism or other factors. Same is the case with Leo, people don't see his/her moves complexity or other game factors, they straight up demean the character because of multiple cringe factors and little knowledge.
Leo feels very balanced at the moment. I do agree that being aggressive is taking a risk, bug poking with moves like down 3, forward corner 1,4, are good pokes until you can catch them out.
I’ve seen a ruler Leo take rounds and almost beat a GoD simply by mashing buttons with Leo if you don’t have the knowledge check on Leo your screwed so I can definitely see why your friend would complain about it he’s not a bad character if you know how to use him
In my opinion I think Leo’s insane man. Easy a+ tier The mix ups with her never end, she’s got buttons that knockdown for easy oki, decent keep out, really good wall carry, and extremely out of pocket damage at the wall
Leo is just how characters should be. Counterplay that may őr may nőt work, mindgames, momentum. The top 10-15 áll has tó be dialed down. Some ave 1or 2 moves thats easy tó balance but others are just fundamentally busted
Thing is though, Leo is one balance change/ New Discovery away from going from b to s+ one little change and then all of a sudden everythings else Leo can do becomes crazy mind game pressure. seeing the New rank stats where leo is last in terms of high level rank win rates does still say allot. But gives good credibility to your skill since Its not like u can just pick up Leo and get TGS no sweat even for pros
I think so many people used her like a sock to climb ranks so by the time they reach the bottom of the top, everyone knows her stuff backwards. So she's powerful on paper, but no one alive doesn't understand how to respond to her.
I've been playing hwo since t4, and leo since t6... Hwo lost way too much damage potential from t7 to t8. He lost like 5 ch launchers, a couple nh launchers, fla snake edge(to beat jab check in stance), hell sweep from stance, and frame nerfs. The only real buff he got was rff df3, which is petty much a catch all move, but he's also more linear Hwo feels like my weaker character in t8 as opposed to t7 Leo is one of few characters that can kill you for not ducking or trying to.
Leo is one of the few characters, along with Lee & Kazuya, who will age well over time. Leo lacks, however, some of the powerful moves of other characters. But it's these characters who, when mastered, wreak havoc online. And all the vinegar in the LAB turns to honey in ranked
Leo has a good chunk, its just a matter of when to use them. For example i had a Kazuya and Bryan straight jab me at the beginning of each round. Its equal at 10 frames but because Leo is smaller, Leo will lose a good number of times. Because of that, an easy punish was db + 3 or df+ 23
I am beginning to think all of you are slow and have zero listening skills..I repeat speedkicks is talking about tournament settings for first to 3..It's not a general teir list
Hard not to doom about the character with all the discourse about them being weak, but ngl i don’t think tier lists really matter for the 99% of ppl. And obviously people like you make Leo work at top level, so I still think a “play who you want” mindset still applies, for anyone who is questioning their main after seeing all the tier list stuff.
This exactly. Tier list are meaningless for most people. But it's still interesting to hear the reasonings of why some characters are in the tiers they are in. Unfortunately most people that make tier lists don't go into depth about the characters or don't explain it at all.
All my friends say leo is broken The complain about d2 being spammy And her lows super scary and rewarding but all of them -12 which is quite unfair for the defender the get basically nothing for blocking most of her lows And lets not talk about the wall combo and wall carry 😝
all these tier lists are BS, guys. notice how speedkicks put whoooorang right in the middle so that his character does not get any nerfs. leo as b tier? The guy is literally S tier candidate just like all the other waivu characters. Meanwhile the only feng who won a tourney worth a salt is kkokoma. And Joka won as Reina. Reina, kid. He didnt just win. He dominated a high level pakistani player with reina.
@@baconbitz7804 Bullsheeeaaaat. 70% of the cast is S tier. Do I need to repeat myself. Every character has there own gimmicks and own thing and if u know how to play, u can destroy online, offline and tourney. Tourney characters have been incredibly divers and feng only won once in 1 big tourney. Kkokoma. Stop whining
@@user-or4ct5ow6b most characters are very strong but that doesn’t mean they’re all completely equal in strength. More things go into how popular a character is in tournament than strength
My main problem with Leo is that I either have a great game or I suffer. Nothing in-between. When the opponent knows what to do against him, it's like pulling teeth.
I think that describes how it is to fight em too. I either crush Leo players or I don’t get to play the game.
Gotta mix it up
Leo is a character where you got to utilize all the tools and get creative. Leos style is also like a strategist. You gotta think and find the openings based on what your getting and really mix it up
Honestly a lot of the tier lists do not matter too much, some characters were clearly broken before (Drag, Azucena) and some still need tweaking but it ultimately comes down to the players, the mind games and ability to react/adapt.
I find Leo incredibly flexible and while I’ll usually struggle in the first few bouts I start to assert myself in later rounds.
Honest to god think the game is pretty balanced lol
Leo is s tier.
the man put jun at the bottom and whoooorang in the middle, nice little safe spot.
he about as objective as a crocodile claiming he is vegetarian.
Same. When i boot up Tekken I always do quick matches forst before ranked so that way i can get rolling
Every character is viable imo
I agree here
Any competent player that knows Leo’s moves even a little bit makes Leo’s difficulty jump by 100. A lot of characters can succeed even if you know the moveset, anyone who can sidestep can work around Leo really well
It’s just a power creep really. I’m really happy with where Leo is in the game in terms of balance and I think Leo’s gonna be very strong and dependable as the other characters get nerfed around them. Personally I’m all for characters coming down to Leo’s level.
I don’t think she’s bottom 5 when Panda exists btw
Leo has never been top tier or bottom tier Leo is the character where everything is viable but nothing really stands out… a solid fundamental based character, to answer you I’d say if they are familiar fighting Leo makes things very difficult
I think one way to play Leo is like a 50/50 gorilla due to having multiple big lows (thinking of the FC low and hellsweep specifically to get opponents to duck). I think that's the most fun way to play Leo at least. Sadly there are other characters that can do it better.
Mate superb information. Thanks for sharing your view on Leo current situation. Very informative. Leo kinda reminds me of Jin in t7 perhaps ?
Hi @ayorichie! Check the setup. after wallsplat use heatburst b14 34 db 1+2 d into bok 1+2 heatdash can mix with bok 3. Its beat every single button (only recovery hit option to survive) if he wakeup in block you get huge chip damage + 18wallmix, any ground option you can use up back 3 instead of d 3+4. And it work on bad wallsplat angle.
Let them say we're b tier or worse so we can skirt by undetected from nerfs 😊
B equals LOW tier now? when will the power creep end. Videos will be coming out with A grades as low tier next
I'd argue that Leo's 1+2 throw has been buffed if anything since the input is not bound to a ff dash anymore, so you can throw it out from standing to while running. The dash you had to do for the throw telegraphed your intent somewhat for opponents that knew it comes only after the ff dash, they now find themselves surprise thrown from standing to while running expecting the throw mechanic to be the same as in T7 as it's still early times for T8. Also, if counter hit throws have a longer break window in general then it's a roster wide change and thus not a nerf but a neutral thing for Leo IMO.
Barking dogs seldom bites. It's not about tier lists that make or raise a character, rather it's the pure skill and character loyalty that makes the game playable. I've seen players win tournaments with kuma, Gigas and other characters that lack certain moves. So let players have their tier list because we know deep down it's based on either favouritism or other factors.
Same is the case with Leo, people don't see his/her moves complexity or other game factors, they straight up demean the character because of multiple cringe factors and little knowledge.
Could you do the same kind of analysis for playing Leo at a tad lower than pro level ? like bushin+ ranks online.
Nice Pokemon BW2 music
Leo feels very balanced at the moment. I do agree that being aggressive is taking a risk, bug poking with moves like down 3, forward corner 1,4, are good pokes until you can catch them out.
Bro what are you talking about?
d3 is a garbage generic low.
forward corner 14 ? what is that? Leo doesn't have a df14 or uf14 move.
Funny because my friends constantly complain about how good Leo is 🤷♂
Same here
As someone who runs into her often enough, I'd agree.
I’ve seen a ruler Leo take rounds and almost beat a GoD simply by mashing buttons with Leo if you don’t have the knowledge check on Leo your screwed so I can definitely see why your friend would complain about it he’s not a bad character if you know how to use him
In my opinion I think Leo’s insane man. Easy a+ tier
The mix ups with her never end, she’s got buttons that knockdown for easy oki, decent keep out, really good wall carry, and extremely out of pocket damage at the wall
@@versatilelord8893 meanwhile Bryan is still playing Tekken 7.5 and right now his supposed buffs have glitches.
Leo is just how characters should be. Counterplay that may őr may nőt work, mindgames, momentum. The top 10-15 áll has tó be dialed down. Some ave 1or 2 moves thats easy tó balance but others are just fundamentally busted
Thing is though, Leo is one balance change/ New Discovery away from going from b to s+
one little change and then all of a sudden everythings else Leo can do becomes crazy mind game pressure.
seeing the New rank stats where leo is last in terms of high level rank win rates does still say allot. But gives good credibility to your skill since Its not like u can just pick up Leo and get TGS no sweat even for pros
Where did you find the new rank stats?
Why is Jun like the 3rd worst or let's just say the worst character since Bears don't even count as a character?
I think so many people used her like a sock to climb ranks so by the time they reach the bottom of the top, everyone knows her stuff backwards. So she's powerful on paper, but no one alive doesn't understand how to respond to her.
I've been playing hwo since t4, and leo since t6...
Hwo lost way too much damage potential from t7 to t8. He lost like 5 ch launchers, a couple nh launchers, fla snake edge(to beat jab check in stance), hell sweep from stance, and frame nerfs.
The only real buff he got was rff df3, which is petty much a catch all move, but he's also more linear
Hwo feels like my weaker character in t8 as opposed to t7
Leo is one of few characters that can kill you for not ducking or trying to.
These videos are great but you can crank up your speaking volume man, having a hard time listening even at full volume
This editor is 🔥
i would much rather have leo stay in the current tier rather than being super strong. if leo was s tier id feel like my skill wasnt earned
exactlyyyy 🔥🔥
Leo is super strong
Leo is still S tier the problem with leo is that he still plays tekken7
So all of you know better then speedkicks..This tier list is for tournaments player..How many times must he repeat that?
@@tryingtochangemyways5074 something’s I agree with something’s I don’t just because a “pro players” says that’s the case doesn’t make it law
Leo is one of the few characters, along with Lee & Kazuya, who will age well over time.
Leo lacks, however, some of the powerful moves of other characters.
But it's these characters who, when mastered, wreak havoc online. And all the vinegar in the LAB turns to honey in ranked
Leo has a good chunk, its just a matter of when to use them. For example i had a Kazuya and Bryan straight jab me at the beginning of each round. Its equal at 10 frames but because Leo is smaller, Leo will lose a good number of times. Because of that, an easy punish was db + 3 or df+ 23
Let them downplay Leo so that she never gets nerf 😂
Good. Let themn say Leo is low tier. That way devs stop nerfing them. People stop labbing against them. And I actually have a chance out of red Q_Q
Ive been stuck in red ranks for forever. I just wanna get to mighty ruler lol
People labbing the matchup isn’t your problem in red ranks
What is that tier list ????
Speedkicks is tripping. Must have hit his head.
I am beginning to think all of you are slow and have zero listening skills..I repeat speedkicks is talking about tournament settings for first to 3..It's not a general teir list
@@tryingtochangemyways5074 Damn that's wild. Almost as if I know that lmao.
LEO IS SLEPT ONNN💯💯💯
Hard not to doom about the character with all the discourse about them being weak, but ngl i don’t think tier lists really matter for the 99% of ppl. And obviously people like you make Leo work at top level, so I still think a “play who you want” mindset still applies, for anyone who is questioning their main after seeing all the tier list stuff.
This exactly. Tier list are meaningless for most people.
But it's still interesting to hear the reasonings of why some characters are in the tiers they are in.
Unfortunately most people that make tier lists don't go into depth about the characters or don't explain it at all.
Lars and leo A+ bruh
Awesome, let him stay that way, they really don't notice kekekekeke =^_^=
Asuka is NOT A+ 💀💀 why does speedkicks always make whack tier lists
new update buffs for Asuka
Asuka got her wr 1+2 buffed and she can force a mixup at will with her grab which is homing and both her followups from it got buffed.
That buff is not as good as people making it out to be. She really didn't change much.
She has all her defensive tools and a vortex now
Raven is so buggy its sad to play him
Jack of all master of none
All my friends say leo is broken
The complain about d2 being spammy
And her lows super scary and rewarding but all of them -12 which is quite unfair for the defender the get basically nothing for blocking most of her lows
And lets not talk about the wall combo and wall carry 😝
all these tier lists are BS, guys.
notice how speedkicks put whoooorang right in the middle so that his character does not get any nerfs.
leo as b tier? The guy is literally S tier candidate just like all the other waivu characters.
Meanwhile the only feng who won a tourney worth a salt is kkokoma. And Joka won as Reina. Reina, kid. He didnt just win. He dominated a high level pakistani player with reina.
Joka won with Reina and Feng. Besides tournament wins what makes you think Feng isn’t amazing?
@@baconbitz7804 never said he wasnt amazing.
But 70% of the cast is broken S tier. This is a fact.
If u cant win, thats on u.
@@user-or4ct5ow6b I never said I can’t win. I’m just saying that Feng is better than most characters
@@baconbitz7804 Bullsheeeaaaat.
70% of the cast is S tier. Do I need to repeat myself.
Every character has there own gimmicks and own thing and if u know how to play, u can destroy online, offline and tourney.
Tourney characters have been incredibly divers and feng only won once in 1 big tourney. Kkokoma.
Stop whining
@@user-or4ct5ow6b most characters are very strong but that doesn’t mean they’re all completely equal in strength. More things go into how popular a character is in tournament than strength
i got to my highest rank bcus of leo
No wonder why Leo is bottom 5 pick rate and win rate in high ranks, bottom tier character obviously lol.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Meow
He is also a pretty hard character, very execution heavy. Love it though.
😏😏😏