As a bootcamp grad and a current teacher at a bootcamp, I would not recommend to anyone that they attend it, at least for the time being. Seriously, their tuition keeps going up and up and the statistics that show how many of their recent grads have landed jobs within the last 6 months are probably dismal right now...and they haven't updated them on their site in two years because of this fact.
I take it you don't really like your company... I went to a few bootcamps and some teachers were not up for the job. The junior teachers lied to me, saying I would need to create a new ticket for this new issue. When I did, the ticket went back to the same junior teachers who just panicked. The process of creating a new ticket just wasted my time and affected my morale.
@@patrickchan2503 Don't get me wrong, I think there are a lot positives about this bootcamp. 1. The mentorship and curriculum are quite solid 2. You are surrounded by a lot of like-minded, driven individuals who almost all have the same goals in mind, which helps with morale and staying focused (dropping 10k on a bootcamp probably plays a role in this as well) 3. The students are able to network and meet aspiring software devs which is a pretty valuable asset, especially in this job market 4. The bootcamp has a small department that's purpose is to prepare students for interviews, teach them how to market themselves, and also network with companies in order to recommend their students and help them students land interviews with those companies All of these points made this bootcamp seem like a worthwhile pursuit four years ago, and it did help me land my first developer job faster than I likely would have if I had gone down the self-taught route (thanks in large part to point number four). However, in 2024, this department is facing the same roadblocks that many other unemployed junior developers are encountering. The career support was the most valuable service and a significant reason why the high tuition seemed worth it then but I can't say the same today.
@@arkansavalder if a company has to choose between a skilled candidate from a top tier bootcamp and a skilled candidate that got his computer science degree from Stanford or MIT do you really think the company would choose a bloody bootcamp grad????
@@arkansavalderToo bad there are enough skilled college graduates who can actually code that will eclipse boot camp graduates. You know the ones who get the internships and do side projects. And even if they are the minority, considering the over saturation of CS students still overshadows these boot camp grads, so it looks like boot camp grads are screwed.
I remember 2 years ago when I started my coding boot camp how they were hyping us that it is the best decision of our life to change our career and get into the field. We would've find a job right away and improve our lives within 2-3 years significantly. Fast forward to now, yes I've managed to find a job right after finishing the boot camp, but man it is shit working in this company. Almost 2 years of experience my salary is the same as a cashier in normal supermarket and I don't know what to do cause there is no way I am able to find a job in this current market competing with 200 people for one position. And they still continue to push this marketing strategy that IT is still worth it, to be honest I think right now it is better to invest your time in construction or any other field, but not in IT. I hope that this is not the case for other people, but it is the truth. Getting career advice from people who earned a lot of money in the IT field last 10-15 years that it is worth it is kind of non sense, because they are not competing for a job in the current market and being junior at the same time + AI hype.
Everyone I know who got a job after my coding bootcamp in development ended up lying on their resume and creating fake work. I didn't do that and I'm Working in IT, not as a developer. It's just a bad time in the market for the last couple of years. I'm ramping up again and gonna do some new projects and re-apply since it has been a little bit since I went hard on applying to jobs, so hopefully it's better luck this time around.
@@blendergaming1579 I hope everything works out for you brother. It's really shit times, my life haven't been easy and I am 32yo and I was hoping to improve doing this change of career, but I guess I need more patience and hopefully everything will be good one day.
I went to a two month coding bootcamp in 2013. It was a great decision at the time. The people who were there because they genuinely enjoyed coding landed nice jobs within a month or two of graduating and have had solid 10+ years careers (we keep up with each other). Today, there's honestly 0 chance I could recommend a boot camp to someone. The harsh reality is the market has matured and the talent supply has outpaced the demand. I just looked up the bootcamp's website and they have permanently closed as of three weeks ago💀
As someone who just hired a jr dev last week after going through thousands of applicants - nearly all the bootcamp people simply stop coding until they find a job. Or the projects will be duplicates of other applicants repos who also went through the bootcamps. In reality, we're just looking for someone who can teach themselves on the fly, with a modern, self-built portfolio showcasing the solutions they built for clients. Too many people claiming x years of experience without even a basic portfolio.
Do you have any advice for someone new starting out. I really want to get into coding but hearing about how bad the market has been makes me question if it’s a good idea. Would love any advice you may have
Finally lol you are the first person who commented that is actually in the industry and is telling the truth lol. So many other commenters on here are complainers (huge red flag for an employer) and/or they have no experience or understanding of this industry. I own my own company now but I have interviewed probably thousands of people for dev positions from both my time as a senior dev and also as a business owner and all of the ones who had zero skill are the college grads, ones who went to non reputable boot camps, and the ones who finished a boot camp but haven't build any software since then. It's so hard to find a person with real skill or even just a basic portfolio. I have been understaffed for so long now because I can't find anyone with actual skill. I won't even interview someone anymore unless they have a real professional portfolio or they are recommended by one of my employees. I can't count how much time I've wasted on interviews and it's very frustrating and awkward when I can tell 5 minutes in that they can't even code. For my very first question I started asking applicants to share their screen and write me a to do list in vanilla JS that renders user input in real time and 95% of them can't do it. And for some reason all the college grads get flustered and mad and keep asking me about planning and implementation.... for a to do list....
@@kingofthenoobs3928 so are you saying that if I actually get skilled in coding there is work to be found? Sorry all the RUclips and Reddit comments had made me believe that it’s impossible to become a software developer anymore
@@Ynerson9003 You can interview next to your barber shop.... Convince them to pay for hosting services and make a website for free and tell them to spread the good news. That's what i'm doing.
@@Ynerson9003 this ultimately comes down to you, are you sure if you enjoy coding? Are you obsessed with problem solving? Can you teach yourself coding concepts reading hundreds pages of documentation? This is just one of the must have for a dev. Try it out for yourself, I started when I was 10 because of gameboy rom hacking (not much coding required but I like the idea of creating). RUclips has a lot of free tutorials, you can follow along building a simple website to see if you enjoy it, now imagine doing that as full time.
Plumbers and electricians make more money than many software engineers. I say - as a staff software engineer - you're better off these days learning a trade than programming. Unless you love coding like me, and you're doing it for the love of coding. But if money is your driver, there are much better bets than coding these days.
In third world countries programming is the only way earning good money. Plumbers and electricians make like 700$ \ month But being middle developer u can earn 2000$ / month and it's damn good money
@@vzlomer1000 false, you can easly earn 100/200 USD daily as a good plumber in Mexico City. Also you can earn the same as a specialized mechanic on hybrid cars, more than 100k-300K USD per year as a doctor with a high specialization. There are numerous ways to make good money in Mexico if you know the way.
@@vzlomer1000what good is it if you can’t get a job and you’re told that “we decided to go with another candidate”? If you’re a truck driver or airframe/powerplane worker, you just get in.
bootcamp grad from 2021 here, to anyone having a hard time finding a job, just keep building, put stuff out there, network with the people in your local tech scene!
I've said this before and will say it again: coding bootcamps should first of all change their names to programming bootcamps, and should be no shorter than 6 months, at least 5 days a week, 8 hours per day. They should focus on teaching fundamentals of programming, OOP, computer architecture, operating systems, data communications and algorithm analysis. 12 1.5 hour classes on each subject, that's still only 3 months. Then they can split into groups who want to specialize in web development, embedded systems, game development etc etc. That's the only way you can have graduates who have a chance to go up against CS grads.
I did a similar cursus to what you describded and just got my first SWE job in 1 startup (Paris, France). But not every student gets a job coming out. I applied myself and keep learning at work. I'm now learning cybersecurity pen testing on my own and have a game plan to change jobs in tech again by getting some of the best certs in cybersec and getting hired by some techs i know are in cybersec after i proved my value. The fact coding bootcmps are deflating is a good thing, there is saturation in the market right now, it shows the tides are shifting, this was bound to happen between AI doom content and tech rebalancing after overhiring during 2020. I got into tech at the worst possible moment but i'm very glad i kept going.
Telling all these kids that they are gonna get a job that requires them to do no real work and they get to take home a six-figure salary is the real fucking grift. You don't need a coding bootcamp. You need to find a field you care about and excel in it. Become a senior engineer equivalent in a field you actually care about, not just for the money.
I respect your opinion, but please understand that from our perspective, your personal interests are tied to this subject. Just something to keep in mind.
Or hire a person from Asia remotely that has a masters, 6 years of formal schooling, 2-3 years of experience, speak business level English, reads and writes English better then 90% of Americans and will cost you 2000 a month that will love to make that in Vietnam, the Philippines, Thailand or India. And you don't need to worry about getting sued for labor laws and working them to the bone, etc...
Deferred Tuition- AppAcademy wasn't the first to offer this. I attended the Chubb Institute Bootcamp in 1999 that provided a highly intensive COBOL Bootcamp for the 2000 date change. There was no tuition cost, and they placed me with one of their Fortune 500 clients, then took a portion of my salary for a period of 8 months. This model worked out for me, and I ended-up being hired by the same company.
You don’t need coding boot camps or college to learn programming. There is so much free and low cost information to learn programming outside of those options. It’s not like they have magical information about programming dont fall for the hype. Stay focused.
I respect bootcamp grads. For the most part, they were as good as CS grads on front-end work; sometimes even on backend. Obviously, there are gaps. But when a bootcamp grad intern comes in and says "my code is slow", we can draw a triangle on the white-board and talk about O(n^2) and string-append in a loop. It really only mattered for the more esoteric areas of backend.
there's always been an oversupply of 0-3 years experience software engineers. Now there's an oversuppy of 3+ years swes. If you don't have 5+ years experience, you're gonna have a bad time right now. If you're passionate about it, keep it as a side hobby building your own apps while you do something else to pay your bills. I would go into plumbing/electrician, trades, etc.. It's similar work in that you're figuring stuff out. And you can quickly ramp up to 100k/year.
Now the question is how fast you can grow to up to 100k per year? Whether plumber or electrician, it takes a lot of time to excel at what you do and build a list of clients, referrals etc.
@@MrGreen087 you won’t have people telling you “we decided to go with another candidate” 1000 times. As a truck driver, you can really just get in. The way forward, IMO, is knowing trades AND a skill adjacent in tech.
You forgot to mention all the free courses online competing with coding bootcamps. You know how people say if you choose to study art, it's like a hobby and not a career and you have to get a real job after. Maybe in future if you choose to study coding, treat it like a hobby and not a career. I wonder.
I would definitely not recommend getting in software engineering today. There are careers like being a doctor, which gives you a moat because you have to be present (physically) and anyone who is not a doctor can't do it, at least legally. Same for being an accountant, or a lawyer - for these ones you don't need to be present physically, but you have to have a degree in the relevant country. Entrepreneurship is even better, but you have to "make it". SE instead, you can be replaced with an AI, or with a software engineer that's literally anywhere in the world, the wages will go down because of surplus offer, etc. I think it's some sort of normalization of the market, but SE will end up being lower paid than other staff like HR or accountants, or lawyers, or office managers. The only plus for SE is that you can technically do it from anywhere, but that's only really relevant if you want a nomadic life.
I was lucky to go through bootcamp before covid and now I have secure job as senior developer, so for me it was success, but for new bootcamper it must incredibly tough right now.
It's oversaturated. It's not the only field going through that right now either. It happens. When that saturation ends, be ready. Advice I was given as someone going the self taught route.
only undersaturated fields right now are medicine, truck driving and the military. you can be a senior home health aide and thats really it especially in “cheaper areas” the older people like to press al ot. trade schools are overbooked, even bouncers are full. just do what you can and weather through, I learned that a roofing backpack is heavy as hell.
I didnt do a bootcamp directly, but i was forced to do a 3 month one at the start of my 2 year apprenticeship a few years ago. I was shocked at the quality of them, but even more so at the price regular people pay for them.
I do believe that people would choose personalized mentorship over big bootcamps. My client is doing very well in comparison to big bootcamps. People want more personalized approach.
The university bootcamp movement was especially egregious. They are NOT run by the schools. It’s a branding partnership where the university gets money from attaching their name. This could come back to bite them.
I finished a bootcamp and landed a job within 2 months from completion. My advice as someone who's recently been there, go beyond what's asked of you. Put yourself in a favourable position, build projects and host them somewhere so you can share links. Don't overstate yourself, people see through that and will be put off straight away. Humble yourself and show your willingness to learn, that's what employers care about most when taking on a junior.
im not a software engineer but i find this channel very interesting for what it's like to be one. fwiw i heavily considered KU's program but i was a mid-early career guy in data analysis who couldn't forego 4 months of work.
As someone who has a skill based job. There are always jobs available. Problem is, and I have seen it as a supervisor, many people like to quiet quit or refuse to train in off hours on their own time. If you do those things you will get the best jobs and will never have a problem finding great paying work. All of the best paying jobs out there require unpaid work or they will put you on a 40 hour salary and work you 60 hours a week. Every single one.
starting at aws next Monday a a new grad. Thanks for being there Clement, you inspired me during the pandemic to learn to code ❤ Looking to start side project and would lobe to see more content on that 😀
It is not the bootcamp idea that is bad, but it is inherently the knowledge and complexity of programming skills needed that is at the heart of the problem. Please think and reason logically. Just because the bootcamp is not useful, or the teacher is not up to par, just mean u need more advanced bootcamp for these teacher themselves, and the existing bootcamp should be clearly "for_elementary_kids_only". Every thing in this world has different prices for different quality of goods, depending on the level of quality expected. For those higher expectation, there are a lot well known Javascript experts for example, who know the knowledge at their fingertips.
There IS a space for upskilling people to tech work outside of college which is very inefficient past a certain age. One interesting trend is people who did coding bootcamps and wind up as Product Managers, QA engineers, sales engineers, project managers, product marketing managers, etc. It could be a hybrid approach of online lessons (maybe AI/LLM feedback) that track your progress and see if you'd be a good fit for an in-person bootcamp or job recruiting is the way.
May’24 grad here: Mixed feelings on bootcamp. They make sense if you land a job immediately and can continue to hone your skills without going broke. But that’s not today’s market. The post bootcamp landscape is a desert. If they’re being honest, they should prepare students for how to progress during the impending 2 years of unemployment. Career counselor advice is basically spray and pray job applying with a dm to someone at the company. I guarantee you hiring managers are getting a hundred dms a day that say “I’d like to chat about the position” from under qualified, desperate boot camp grads. As a jobseeker, it is demoralizing to pretend you’re better than you are, and be seen for it.
I saw this coming two years ago. However, I still benefitted from the bootcamps to improve my skills and I was more confident when I enrolled in my Master's course
In a climate where the market is saturated with surface-level "React devs," consider schools that have more of _something else_ too. There are so many roles in the manager/designer/engineer or technology/business/design Venn diagrams. It's especially hard for "coders" because everyone is competing for the same general _coder_ jobs. What if you had some cross over? What if you were good at algo AND front-end? What if you knew about architecture AND had some business experience? What if you could manage projects AND actually know how the code works? What if you weren't afraid to pick a color or font-size? If people can start seeing this as a field where we '_design and build things_" instead of a (possibly) stable career move, they might have a better time finding work - _and_ we might have things that are designed and built a lot better. Just like any market/business, there's some really great offerings - some mediocre ones, and a bunch of crappy ones. So, it's not the concept of a boot camp or training program that is the problem. Bad actors are facing the music and life will go on. Smart people will seek out quality education options (we hope).
Coding bootcamps were and always were what you make of them. The only difference is when the failure happens. During the free money boom people who were after the SWE goldrush got hired when they probably should not have and eventually were the victims of layoffs when accountability time came and budgets tightened. For the folks with the motivation and skills I believe they would have made it either way, it just gave them a small edge. There was a strange time for a year or two where any random with a bootcamp was more in demand than 20 year industry vets. Market corrections always happen. Hopefully the bootcamps that survive still provide that funnel for non-CS folks to get into the role.
I can learn what I can at a bootcamp using AI. Bootcamps may give networking opportunities that AI can't, and some have links with employers to get people jobs quickly which AI cant
GREAT !!! dont forget you were one of them, the boot-camp HYPE creator. How many people fall into your trap with promises of Eldorado ? ... Now, now what? I am glad the real qualified people who spent years and years in earning their BS/MS degrees or years of work experience shine like gems in this dust you and your boot-camp body's created !
Well, I don't know any profession where you can make 200k $ / year without college degree, real skill or talent. Software development from 2012 -2022 was an exception, but we are not privileged anymore. SD is now like every other profession.
So, what would you prefer is the alternative? Should someone just tackle the learning independently and just solidify it by taking a certificate from Coursera ? Like the "Meta Front-End Developer" cert?
Hard disgree with your assessment that you should still attend a coding bootcamp in 2024 and beyond. The model as you had mention is to turn out software developers quickly, which they did in spades, the problem with that is in combinatin with layoffs we have glut of software developeres in the marketplace. Because interest rates are high, companies want to make sure their investment in developers will pay off immediately, which is why they aren't willing to take a chance on bootcamp students any longer (both new devs, and experienced devs from bootcamps). I have been seeing that since you apply through a portal, companies are using their HR screening software (ATS) to filter out bootcamp trained applicants, and appear to only offer interviews to applicants with CS/EE degrees.. The market for bootcamp trained devs is largely dead.
@clem Great technical breakdown by you in this video. Should some bootcamp candidates consider cloud security or database engineering instead? Also what are your thoughts on CodeSmith here in NYC or even the LA branch? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again!
I am thriving what you are talking about this is only for new devs probably ! But we are rreally stable now on the market not to many hiring not too many firing :)
Hey Clement, I purchased courses from Algoexpert. While completing the minimum criteria for the questions for DSA and getting certificate for the same, my profile got out for the recruitment process. How come I not get even 1 interview? I don't understand the reason behind it. So, I wanna ask how the recruitment process of Algoexpert actually works?
I graduated a bootcamp last year, probably at the worst time. A year later and my technical background finally kicked in and got me a job that i start next week. I acknowledge that I 100% got this because i fit what they were looking for as a Mechanical Engineer with a lot of coding skills, which was really lucky, but for that reason, I am not letting the hiring support people know that I got it because I dont want them to use me as marketing. This was terrible timing on my part and I would hesitate to tell anyone to do what I did. I'm glad I did, but this was an immense gamble and I almost even gave up.
Some bootcamp providers get funding from the government if they get a success story. I reported my success story because they bribed me a SMALL amount of Amazon credit and the bootcamp did me some good in some ways, my mental health improved a bit etc. And I hope by doing a good deed, in future, karma will give me something good. I think they should give me MORE Amazon credit. Sometimes it's what humans have to do to "build" relations, turn a blind eye, keep people in their jobs.... I feel they could pay me as a mentor, maybe I should propose the idea.
@@Nero-xv yeah I just didn't like the work I did. I feel like I signed up for ME and thought I'd stick it out instead of changing majors to something I found more interesting. Cautionary tale of following your gut when you're in college if you don't vibe with your major Edit: also, in case I didn't make it clear, my title at this new job is Software Engineer
others will have their own unique skills to stack with coding. Say a former sales person get's hired to build a sales ai chatbot. You should share yourself as a statistic because others have their own unique skills to stack with coding.
All these American RUclipsrs should have a AMERICA ONLY label. Everything they say is about their neighborhoods but they forget they may have international audience.
Yet still see meritamerica and triple10 ads where they are supposedly talking to a random person in the street who got a job 6 months after their bootcamp making 6 figures
I disagree with you. The whole point of a bootcamp is to learn as fast (and rushed) as possible into a supposedly good job market. Well, everyone knows this is the worst job market in memory. So how could anyone possibly want to graduate as fast as possible with half-assed learnings into this.
Never ask a barber if he thinks you need a haircut. This is what happens when a construction site gets filled with hammers. Right now AI isn't taking jobs, it definitely isn't creating as many as it is reducing lol. If you are a business would you pay for a bunch of mixed level software developers when you can have a fraction of your best using AI to replace the excess? Business never personal.
Your product is excellent (bought it 3'rd time), but I need to say you are doing very well, actually too well (it's another way of saying you should take care of your health)
You changed your stance when you said "AI will not take our jobs". Well yeah it will not replace software engineers but it sure seems to be causing a dent, as you yourself said in your recent video.
What about going into college and majoring in business but also learn to code. I’m interested in being a good candidate for a business/marketing position but in the tech field. I’ve been learning to code on my own, just not sure I can deal with the math courses required in a CS degree.
( coding bootcamp are much older than that but with an other name. I followed a such boot camp in 2003 and it was very similar to the react bootcamp i followed in 2022 )
I went to a coding bootcamp in 2019. My aproach to it was: learn from udemy at the same time, reinforce and practice what I have learned in class. I was satisfied with the bootcamp and it was good as another tool for learning. But my general observation is: Classes in person are generally inferior form of learning. Video is better. (Unless you are learning something like a foreign language). When learning from udemy you can go back to the parts you did not understand and see it once more. Somebody used term you didn’t understand? Stop the video and google it, read and come back. Compare it even to a best class: - someone doesn’t get it. Teacher explains to him for the 5th time and you wait, wasting time and needing to catch up - you don’t get it. Teacher gives up after 4th try. - projector malfunctions - you want to pee and you just lost some material If udemy curses were same price as bootcamps. I would still go with udemy
The Odin Project, The Odin Project, The Odin Project. I cant say it enough. No matter what you choose, you have to put in the time. Might as well choose an extremely high quality, free program.
Coding has MAXIMUM until 2030. Find another job dudes. Mark thic comment! Especially technical interviews maximum 3 more years. AT MOST!! Fyi I am an A.I Software guy myself lol
This is not good advice, many recruiters throw cv's to bin when they see coding bootcamp there, actually they can be toxic for such person to get into IT. No joke, this is easiest way to filter applicants because so many true engineers look for a job and those are more valuable that bootcampers.
I have an acquitance told me he is planning to quit his job (sales and marketing) cuz he's sick of working long hours and wants to do a 3 month boot camp and get a software engineer job so he can get a higher pay with less stress. Absolutely deLuLu, clearly missed the memo. 🤣 can't believe such ppl still exist 😅
The problem I see is when someone tells me that they attend a Bootcamp it tells me they need their hand held to learn coding. I WOULD NEVER HIRE A BOOTCAMP ATTENDEE. Like someone else said in the comments, they tend to stop learning after the bootcamp and put the class projects like "to do list" app on their resume. Get some experience through freelancing or doing real world projects for free. Or make a real world app that you can flesh out all the features and give it away for free on a forum.
How about me? I can do working eCommerce, forum, blog SPA applications with Laravel and Vue3. That means making a normalized MySQL database up to BCNF, back end with Laravel and front end with Vue. I learned Relational Theory, MySQL, PHP, C++, Computer Architecture + little Assembly. I know some algorithms, Big O and its relatives and the math behind it, I can do analysis on algorithms. I learned Laravel, Vue3, CSS, HTML, JavaScript. I am rank 3 on Codewars. I was a math student but leaved after 2 years.
@@bestopinion9257 Sounds like you have been working hard unlike some boot camp grads that think the certificate alone is a guaranteed job. Maybe, focus in on one area and try freelancing or volunteering to do real world projects to build up your portfolio. But, congrats you are doing awesome.
Anyone here know of TripleTen is reputable. I was thinking about starting it and taking my time it’s a month 10 month course. While teaching myself. JS, C++, and Python 😅
As a bootcamp grad and a current teacher at a bootcamp, I would not recommend to anyone that they attend it, at least for the time being. Seriously, their tuition keeps going up and up and the statistics that show how many of their recent grads have landed jobs within the last 6 months are probably dismal right now...and they haven't updated them on their site in two years because of this fact.
I take it you don't really like your company... I went to a few bootcamps and some teachers were not up for the job. The junior teachers lied to me, saying I would need to create a new ticket for this new issue. When I did, the ticket went back to the same junior teachers who just panicked. The process of creating a new ticket just wasted my time and affected my morale.
@@JohnnySalami-jo4jh code smith?
@@patrickchan2503 Don't get me wrong, I think there are a lot positives about this bootcamp.
1. The mentorship and curriculum are quite solid
2. You are surrounded by a lot of like-minded, driven individuals who almost all have the same goals in mind, which helps with morale and staying focused (dropping 10k on a bootcamp probably plays a role in this as well)
3. The students are able to network and meet aspiring software devs which is a pretty valuable asset, especially in this job market
4. The bootcamp has a small department that's purpose is to prepare students for interviews, teach them how to market themselves, and also network with companies in order to recommend their students and help them students land interviews with those companies
All of these points made this bootcamp seem like a worthwhile pursuit four years ago, and it did help me land my first developer job faster than I likely would have if I had gone down the self-taught route (thanks in large part to point number four). However, in 2024, this department is facing the same roadblocks that many other unemployed junior developers are encountering. The career support was the most valuable service and a significant reason why the high tuition seemed worth it then but I can't say the same today.
"As a bootcamp grad and a current teacher at a bootcamp" lmao, it's litterally sounds like a ponzy scheme,
@@БухУчет-ц4с the entire government is a scheme, what can we do? We turn a blind eye and pretend we are the greatest lol sadlei
If candidates with degrees are struggling to get jobs then bootcamp grads will be destroyed
wrong!!! people without skills will be destroyed
@@arkansavalder 100%
@@arkansavalder if a company has to choose between a skilled candidate from a top tier bootcamp and a skilled candidate that got his computer science degree from Stanford or MIT do you really think the company would choose a bloody bootcamp grad????
@@arkansavalderToo bad there are enough skilled college graduates who can actually code that will eclipse boot camp graduates. You know the ones who get the internships and do side projects. And even if they are the minority, considering the over saturation of CS students still overshadows these boot camp grads, so it looks like boot camp grads are screwed.
@@NgolaNalane probably the one that interviews best. No two people are exactly the same.
I remember 2 years ago when I started my coding boot camp how they were hyping us that it is the best decision of our life to change our career and get into the field. We would've find a job right away and improve our lives within 2-3 years significantly. Fast forward to now, yes I've managed to find a job right after finishing the boot camp, but man it is shit working in this company. Almost 2 years of experience my salary is the same as a cashier in normal supermarket and I don't know what to do cause there is no way I am able to find a job in this current market competing with 200 people for one position. And they still continue to push this marketing strategy that IT is still worth it, to be honest I think right now it is better to invest your time in construction or any other field, but not in IT. I hope that this is not the case for other people, but it is the truth. Getting career advice from people who earned a lot of money in the IT field last 10-15 years that it is worth it is kind of non sense, because they are not competing for a job in the current market and being junior at the same time + AI hype.
Everyone I know who got a job after my coding bootcamp in development ended up lying on their resume and creating fake work. I didn't do that and I'm Working in IT, not as a developer. It's just a bad time in the market for the last couple of years. I'm ramping up again and gonna do some new projects and re-apply since it has been a little bit since I went hard on applying to jobs, so hopefully it's better luck this time around.
@@blendergaming1579 I hope everything works out for you brother. It's really shit times, my life haven't been easy and I am 32yo and I was hoping to improve doing this change of career, but I guess I need more patience and hopefully everything will be good one day.
So be forward thinking, find solutions at that intersection. SaaS for Construction Management.
@@blendergaming1579what are you working in as of right now
Now we probably wouldn't make it past the applying phase for a bootcamp.
I went to a two month coding bootcamp in 2013. It was a great decision at the time. The people who were there because they genuinely enjoyed coding landed nice jobs within a month or two of graduating and have had solid 10+ years careers (we keep up with each other). Today, there's honestly 0 chance I could recommend a boot camp to someone. The harsh reality is the market has matured and the talent supply has outpaced the demand. I just looked up the bootcamp's website and they have permanently closed as of three weeks ago💀
What would you recommend for safest bet in IT field?
@@niksatan cybersecurity - on the defense side, because everyone wants to be a hacker.
@@niksatanpivot to another career in trades. Still seek out roles in computers, but now it’s not the only way to make it in life.
As someone who just hired a jr dev last week after going through thousands of applicants - nearly all the bootcamp people simply stop coding until they find a job. Or the projects will be duplicates of other applicants repos who also went through the bootcamps. In reality, we're just looking for someone who can teach themselves on the fly, with a modern, self-built portfolio showcasing the solutions they built for clients. Too many people claiming x years of experience without even a basic portfolio.
Do you have any advice for someone new starting out. I really want to get into coding but hearing about how bad the market has been makes me question if it’s a good idea. Would love any advice you may have
Finally lol you are the first person who commented that is actually in the industry and is telling the truth lol. So many other commenters on here are complainers (huge red flag for an employer) and/or they have no experience or understanding of this industry. I own my own company now but I have interviewed probably thousands of people for dev positions from both my time as a senior dev and also as a business owner and all of the ones who had zero skill are the college grads, ones who went to non reputable boot camps, and the ones who finished a boot camp but haven't build any software since then. It's so hard to find a person with real skill or even just a basic portfolio. I have been understaffed for so long now because I can't find anyone with actual skill. I won't even interview someone anymore unless they have a real professional portfolio or they are recommended by one of my employees. I can't count how much time I've wasted on interviews and it's very frustrating and awkward when I can tell 5 minutes in that they can't even code. For my very first question I started asking applicants to share their screen and write me a to do list in vanilla JS that renders user input in real time and 95% of them can't do it. And for some reason all the college grads get flustered and mad and keep asking me about planning and implementation.... for a to do list....
@@kingofthenoobs3928 so are you saying that if I actually get skilled in coding there is work to be found? Sorry all the RUclips and Reddit comments had made me believe that it’s impossible to become a software developer anymore
@@Ynerson9003 You can interview next to your barber shop.... Convince them to pay for hosting services and make a website for free and tell them to spread the good news.
That's what i'm doing.
@@Ynerson9003 this ultimately comes down to you, are you sure if you enjoy coding? Are you obsessed with problem solving? Can you teach yourself coding concepts reading hundreds pages of documentation? This is just one of the must have for a dev.
Try it out for yourself, I started when I was 10 because of gameboy rom hacking (not much coding required but I like the idea of creating). RUclips has a lot of free tutorials, you can follow along building a simple website to see if you enjoy it, now imagine doing that as full time.
Plumbers and electricians make more money than many software engineers. I say - as a staff software engineer - you're better off these days learning a trade than programming. Unless you love coding like me, and you're doing it for the love of coding. But if money is your driver, there are much better bets than coding these days.
In third world countries programming is the only way earning good money.
Plumbers and electricians make like 700$ \ month
But being middle developer u can earn 2000$ / month and it's damn good money
Amen
@@vzlomer1000 false, you can easly earn 100/200 USD daily as a good plumber in Mexico City. Also you can earn the same as a specialized mechanic on hybrid cars, more than 100k-300K USD per year as a doctor with a high specialization. There are numerous ways to make good money in Mexico if you know the way.
@@vzlomer1000what good is it if you can’t get a job and you’re told that “we decided to go with another candidate”? If you’re a truck driver or airframe/powerplane worker, you just get in.
@@GoonCity777 yes, now it's difficult
bootcamp grad from 2021 here, to anyone having a hard time finding a job, just keep building, put stuff out there, network with the people in your local tech scene!
I've said this before and will say it again: coding bootcamps should first of all change their names to programming bootcamps, and should be no shorter than 6 months, at least 5 days a week, 8 hours per day. They should focus on teaching fundamentals of programming, OOP, computer architecture, operating systems, data communications and algorithm analysis. 12 1.5 hour classes on each subject, that's still only 3 months. Then they can split into groups who want to specialize in web development, embedded systems, game development etc etc. That's the only way you can have graduates who have a chance to go up against CS grads.
That's fantastic 🎉 😂 it a shame those mofo only care about fast money little work
I did a similar cursus to what you describded and just got my first SWE job in 1 startup (Paris, France). But not every student gets a job coming out. I applied myself and keep learning at work. I'm now learning cybersecurity pen testing on my own and have a game plan to change jobs in tech again by getting some of the best certs in cybersec and getting hired by some techs i know are in cybersec after i proved my value.
The fact coding bootcmps are deflating is a good thing, there is saturation in the market right now, it shows the tides are shifting, this was bound to happen between AI doom content and tech rebalancing after overhiring during 2020. I got into tech at the worst possible moment but i'm very glad i kept going.
@@soullessemperor6572 This. "I learned how to write code for 3 months in JavaScript without prior experience. Gimme 150k/year now".
Might as well get a CS degree
Thats basically an associate degree
Telling all these kids that they are gonna get a job that requires them to do no real work and they get to take home a six-figure salary is the real fucking grift. You don't need a coding bootcamp. You need to find a field you care about and excel in it. Become a senior engineer equivalent in a field you actually care about, not just for the money.
Copium
@@ManeelxAkosAdor Sure, and all these kids can go to the bootcamp off hopium, spend 15k, and then not be able to get a job.
I respect your opinion, but please understand that from our perspective, your personal interests are tied to this subject. Just something to keep in mind.
Bootcamp 6 months + a year of self learning can still be beneficial.
Or hire a person from Asia remotely that has a masters, 6 years of formal schooling, 2-3 years of experience, speak business level English, reads and writes English better then 90% of Americans and will cost you 2000 a month that will love to make that in Vietnam, the Philippines, Thailand or India. And you don't need to worry about getting sued for labor laws and working them to the bone, etc...
Deferred Tuition- AppAcademy wasn't the first to offer this. I attended the Chubb Institute Bootcamp in 1999 that provided a highly intensive COBOL Bootcamp for the 2000 date change. There was no tuition cost, and they placed me with one of their Fortune 500 clients, then took a portion of my salary for a period of 8 months. This model worked out for me, and I ended-up being hired by the same company.
You don’t need coding boot camps or college to learn programming. There is so much free and low cost information to learn programming outside of those options. It’s not like they have magical information about programming dont fall for the hype. Stay focused.
I respect bootcamp grads. For the most part, they were as good as CS grads on front-end work; sometimes even on backend. Obviously, there are gaps. But when a bootcamp grad intern comes in and says "my code is slow", we can draw a triangle on the white-board and talk about O(n^2) and string-append in a loop. It really only mattered for the more esoteric areas of backend.
there's always been an oversupply of 0-3 years experience software engineers. Now there's an oversuppy of 3+ years swes. If you don't have 5+ years experience, you're gonna have a bad time right now.
If you're passionate about it, keep it as a side hobby building your own apps while you do something else to pay your bills. I would go into plumbing/electrician, trades, etc.. It's similar work in that you're figuring stuff out. And you can quickly ramp up to 100k/year.
Now the question is how fast you can grow to up to 100k per year? Whether plumber or electrician, it takes a lot of time to excel at what you do and build a list of clients, referrals etc.
@@MrGreen087 odds are better than swe
@@MrGreen087 you won’t have people telling you “we decided to go with another candidate” 1000 times. As a truck driver, you can really just get in. The way forward, IMO, is knowing trades AND a skill adjacent in tech.
You forgot to mention all the free courses online competing with coding bootcamps.
You know how people say if you choose to study art, it's like a hobby and not a career and you have to get a real job after. Maybe in future if you choose to study coding, treat it like a hobby and not a career. I wonder.
That's true, and I wanted to mention it! There's an insane amount of competition with less intensive, more self-paced online courses--free and paid.
I would definitely not recommend getting in software engineering today. There are careers like being a doctor, which gives you a moat because you have to be present (physically) and anyone who is not a doctor can't do it, at least legally. Same for being an accountant, or a lawyer - for these ones you don't need to be present physically, but you have to have a degree in the relevant country. Entrepreneurship is even better, but you have to "make it".
SE instead, you can be replaced with an AI, or with a software engineer that's literally anywhere in the world, the wages will go down because of surplus offer, etc. I think it's some sort of normalization of the market, but SE will end up being lower paid than other staff like HR or accountants, or lawyers, or office managers. The only plus for SE is that you can technically do it from anywhere, but that's only really relevant if you want a nomadic life.
I was lucky to go through bootcamp before covid and now I have secure job as senior developer, so for me it was success, but for new bootcamper it must incredibly tough right now.
It's oversaturated. It's not the only field going through that right now either. It happens. When that saturation ends, be ready. Advice I was given as someone going the self taught route.
only undersaturated fields right now are medicine, truck driving and the military. you can be a senior home health aide and thats really it especially in “cheaper areas” the older people like to press al ot. trade schools are overbooked, even bouncers are full. just do what you can and weather through, I learned that a roofing backpack is heavy as hell.
I didnt do a bootcamp directly, but i was forced to do a 3 month one at the start of my 2 year apprenticeship a few years ago. I was shocked at the quality of them, but even more so at the price regular people pay for them.
Save your pennies. Companies will put your CV in a trash if they see the word "Bootcamp" on it.
Thats why you don’t put it in your CV.
@@luisl8851 And put what, self taught?
I do believe that people would choose personalized mentorship over big bootcamps.
My client is doing very well in comparison to big bootcamps.
People want more personalized approach.
The university bootcamp movement was especially egregious. They are NOT run by the schools. It’s a branding partnership where the university gets money from attaching their name. This could come back to bite them.
There are 20 year vets that cannot find work, a bootcamp grad is not going to find work, just how it is.
Your optimism from these video titles is inverse proportional with the hair length. Cut it back man, we need some good news for once.
😂 People used to tell me I was always too optimistic!
There will be good news of you change your career
I finished a bootcamp and landed a job within 2 months from completion. My advice as someone who's recently been there, go beyond what's asked of you. Put yourself in a favourable position, build projects and host them somewhere so you can share links. Don't overstate yourself, people see through that and will be put off straight away. Humble yourself and show your willingness to learn, that's what employers care about most when taking on a junior.
im not a software engineer but i find this channel very interesting for what it's like to be one. fwiw i heavily considered KU's program but i was a mid-early career guy in data analysis who couldn't forego 4 months of work.
As someone who has a skill based job. There are always jobs available. Problem is, and I have seen it as a supervisor, many people like to quiet quit or refuse to train in off hours on their own time. If you do those things you will get the best jobs and will never have a problem finding great paying work. All of the best paying jobs out there require unpaid work or they will put you on a 40 hour salary and work you 60 hours a week. Every single one.
starting at aws next Monday a a new grad. Thanks for being there Clement, you inspired me during the pandemic to learn to code ❤ Looking to start side project and would lobe to see more content on that 😀
It is not the bootcamp idea that is bad, but it is inherently the knowledge and complexity of programming skills needed that is at the heart of the problem. Please think and reason logically. Just because the bootcamp is not useful, or the teacher is not up to par, just mean u need more advanced bootcamp for these teacher themselves, and the existing bootcamp should be clearly "for_elementary_kids_only". Every thing in this world has different prices for different quality of goods, depending on the level of quality expected. For those higher expectation, there are a lot well known Javascript experts for example, who know the knowledge at their fingertips.
There IS a space for upskilling people to tech work outside of college which is very inefficient past a certain age. One interesting trend is people who did coding bootcamps and wind up as Product Managers, QA engineers, sales engineers, project managers, product marketing managers, etc. It could be a hybrid approach of online lessons (maybe AI/LLM feedback) that track your progress and see if you'd be a good fit for an in-person bootcamp or job recruiting is the way.
May’24 grad here:
Mixed feelings on bootcamp.
They make sense if you land a job immediately and can continue to hone your skills without going broke. But that’s not today’s market.
The post bootcamp landscape is a desert. If they’re being honest, they should prepare students for how to progress during the impending 2 years of unemployment.
Career counselor advice is basically spray and pray job applying with a dm to someone at the company. I guarantee you hiring managers are getting a hundred dms a day that say “I’d like to chat about the position” from under qualified, desperate boot camp grads.
As a jobseeker, it is demoralizing to pretend you’re better than you are, and be seen for it.
I saw this coming two years ago. However, I still benefitted from the bootcamps to improve my skills and I was more confident when I enrolled in my Master's course
In a climate where the market is saturated with surface-level "React devs," consider schools that have more of _something else_ too.
There are so many roles in the manager/designer/engineer or technology/business/design Venn diagrams. It's especially hard for "coders" because everyone is competing for the same general _coder_ jobs. What if you had some cross over? What if you were good at algo AND front-end? What if you knew about architecture AND had some business experience? What if you could manage projects AND actually know how the code works? What if you weren't afraid to pick a color or font-size?
If people can start seeing this as a field where we '_design and build things_" instead of a (possibly) stable career move, they might have a better time finding work - _and_ we might have things that are designed and built a lot better.
Just like any market/business, there's some really great offerings - some mediocre ones, and a bunch of crappy ones. So, it's not the concept of a boot camp or training program that is the problem. Bad actors are facing the music and life will go on. Smart people will seek out quality education options (we hope).
Revature for all its flaws was a good bootcamp for me. It paid me so it was more than free and got me a job right away.
Coding bootcamps were and always were what you make of them. The only difference is when the failure happens. During the free money boom people who were after the SWE goldrush got hired when they probably should not have and eventually were the victims of layoffs when accountability time came and budgets tightened. For the folks with the motivation and skills I believe they would have made it either way, it just gave them a small edge.
There was a strange time for a year or two where any random with a bootcamp was more in demand than 20 year industry vets.
Market corrections always happen. Hopefully the bootcamps that survive still provide that funnel for non-CS folks to get into the role.
I can learn what I can at a bootcamp using AI. Bootcamps may give networking opportunities that AI can't, and some have links with employers to get people jobs quickly which AI cant
2 years ago after graduation I started my coding journey learned full stack for 2 straight years now recession
big L
@@naturo_yatangaki yeah I'm flabbergasted In a bad way unemployed my brain is completely damaged 💔
same buddy, same. Hope things turn out well eventually. Will keep learning and building stuff
@@Don_XII tell your story
@@Crypto_usd almost 2 years after graduation, been doing courses and working on projects and moved countries still no job.
If MIT is offering a coding bootcamp that would prolly be the #1 bootcamp and one that should be recommended
As e dev with 25 years exp, it IS to do with ai. I used ai for 3 months and it doubled my productivity.
Same as you, remarkable really. But sadly it marks the end. I will return to selling cars which I did in the 90's
Oh, I replied to myself, hahaha
GREAT !!! dont forget you were one of them, the boot-camp HYPE creator. How many people fall into your trap with promises of Eldorado ? ... Now, now what? I am glad the real qualified people who spent years and years in earning their BS/MS degrees or years of work experience shine like gems in this dust you and your boot-camp body's created !
Well, I don't know any profession where you can make 200k $ / year without college degree, real skill or talent. Software development from 2012 -2022 was an exception, but we are not privileged anymore. SD is now like every other profession.
So, what would you prefer is the alternative?
Should someone just tackle the learning independently and just solidify it by taking a certificate from Coursera ?
Like the "Meta Front-End Developer" cert?
Pick a different career path.
the hardest job in the world has become the easiest job in the world
Nope. They can't find a job because the bar raised. Competition did that. So now is harder than ever.
I wish coding bootcamps failed the year before I finished one, not the year after.
😅
Hard disgree with your assessment that you should still attend a coding bootcamp in 2024 and beyond. The model as you had mention is to turn out software developers quickly, which they did in spades, the problem with that is in combinatin with layoffs we have glut of software developeres in the marketplace. Because interest rates are high, companies want to make sure their investment in developers will pay off immediately, which is why they aren't willing to take a chance on bootcamp students any longer (both new devs, and experienced devs from bootcamps). I have been seeing that since you apply through a portal, companies are using their HR screening software (ATS) to filter out bootcamp trained applicants, and appear to only offer interviews to applicants with CS/EE degrees.. The market for bootcamp trained devs is largely dead.
Fundamentally flawed could be said about algo expert right
was thinking about this last month. I see so many ads and its quite amusing, espeically the schools that offer ISAs with job gaurantees
I've been saying AI would cause these problems since 2020 - and yet everyone keeps saying it's not the cause
Honestly, nobody should consider getting into this field when many experienced SWE can't get a entry level job!
I got thru 1 minute before this lisp made me want to delete myself. Bruh, you a grown man, not a 12 yr old.
Absolutely nobody should pay for s coding bootcamp without having completed CS50 first
@clem Great technical breakdown by you in this video. Should some bootcamp candidates consider cloud security or database engineering instead? Also what are your thoughts on CodeSmith here in NYC or even the LA branch? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again!
Great content. Thanks for sharing. BTW do you have any opinions on the emerging AI bootcamps?
Exactly that i notced they all started merging with university
I am thriving what you are talking about this is only for new devs probably ! But we are rreally stable now on the market not to many hiring not too many firing :)
erm... ok... that's why Clem said... why would a seasoned dev go to a bootcamp... you should be proud you have a job but why rub it in... ego?
The world needs more money..
the world needs to tax Musk, Bezos and Buffett harder 😂
Hey Clement, I purchased courses from Algoexpert. While completing the minimum criteria for the questions for DSA and getting certificate for the same, my profile got out for the recruitment process. How come I not get even 1 interview? I don't understand the reason behind it. So, I wanna ask how the recruitment process of Algoexpert actually works?
I graduated a bootcamp last year, probably at the worst time. A year later and my technical background finally kicked in and got me a job that i start next week.
I acknowledge that I 100% got this because i fit what they were looking for as a Mechanical Engineer with a lot of coding skills, which was really lucky, but for that reason, I am not letting the hiring support people know that I got it because I dont want them to use me as marketing.
This was terrible timing on my part and I would hesitate to tell anyone to do what I did. I'm glad I did, but this was an immense gamble and I almost even gave up.
So you had an engineering degree before you did the BootCamp?
Some bootcamp providers get funding from the government if they get a success story. I reported my success story because they bribed me a SMALL amount of Amazon credit and the bootcamp did me some good in some ways, my mental health improved a bit etc. And I hope by doing a good deed, in future, karma will give me something good. I think they should give me MORE Amazon credit. Sometimes it's what humans have to do to "build" relations, turn a blind eye, keep people in their jobs.... I feel they could pay me as a mentor, maybe I should propose the idea.
@@Nero-xv yeah I just didn't like the work I did. I feel like I signed up for ME and thought I'd stick it out instead of changing majors to something I found more interesting.
Cautionary tale of following your gut when you're in college if you don't vibe with your major
Edit: also, in case I didn't make it clear, my title at this new job is Software Engineer
Well, on the bright side, congratulations on the new job!
others will have their own unique skills to stack with coding. Say a former sales person get's hired to build a sales ai chatbot.
You should share yourself as a statistic because others have their own unique skills to stack with coding.
All these American RUclipsrs should have a AMERICA ONLY label. Everything they say is about their neighborhoods but they forget they may have international audience.
Whether their product is good is also debatable.
Yet still see meritamerica and triple10 ads where they are supposedly talking to a random person in the street who got a job 6 months after their bootcamp making 6 figures
I would title this hey! Stop being burned out, let me actualize you about coding bootcamps ❤
I disagree with you. The whole point of a bootcamp is to learn as fast (and rushed) as possible into a supposedly good job market. Well, everyone knows this is the worst job market in memory. So how could anyone possibly want to graduate as fast as possible with half-assed learnings into this.
Never ask a barber if he thinks you need a haircut. This is what happens when a construction site gets filled with hammers.
Right now AI isn't taking jobs, it definitely isn't creating as many as it is reducing lol. If you are a business would you pay for a bunch of mixed level software developers when you can have a fraction of your best using AI to replace the excess? Business never personal.
"Right now AI isn't taking jobs, it definitely isn't creating as many as it is reducing lol." Is it taking jobs or is it not taking jobs?
Your product is excellent (bought it 3'rd time), but I need to say you are doing very well, actually too well (it's another way of saying you should take care of your health)
You changed your stance when you said "AI will not take our jobs". Well yeah it will not replace software engineers but it sure seems to be causing a dent, as you yourself said in your recent video.
What about going into college and majoring in business but also learn to code. I’m interested in being a good candidate for a business/marketing position but in the tech field. I’ve been learning to code on my own, just not sure I can deal with the math courses required in a CS degree.
Can you tell me which bootcamp to attend?
( coding bootcamp are much older than that but with an other name.
I followed a such boot camp in 2003 and it was very similar to the react bootcamp i followed in 2022 )
I went to a coding bootcamp in 2019.
My aproach to it was: learn from udemy at the same time, reinforce and practice what I have learned in class.
I was satisfied with the bootcamp and it was good as another tool for learning.
But my general observation is:
Classes in person are generally inferior form of learning.
Video is better. (Unless you are learning something like a foreign language).
When learning from udemy you can go back to the parts you did not understand and see it once more.
Somebody used term you didn’t understand? Stop the video and google it, read and come back.
Compare it even to a best class:
- someone doesn’t get it. Teacher explains to him for the 5th time and you wait, wasting time and needing to catch up
- you don’t get it. Teacher gives up after 4th try.
- projector malfunctions
- you want to pee and you just lost some material
If udemy curses were same price as bootcamps. I would still go with udemy
The Odin Project, The Odin Project, The Odin Project. I cant say it enough. No matter what you choose, you have to put in the time. Might as well choose an extremely high quality, free program.
This guy's a scam artist
More simple to become plumber and get 100k at USA that programer.
Nowbody repleplace manual jobs.
Alveys awrybody need to have plan B.
Coding has MAXIMUM until 2030. Find another job dudes. Mark thic comment! Especially technical interviews maximum 3 more years. AT MOST!! Fyi I am an A.I Software guy myself lol
This is not good advice, many recruiters throw cv's to bin when they see coding bootcamp there, actually they can be toxic for such person to get into IT. No joke, this is easiest way to filter applicants because so many true engineers look for a job and those are more valuable that bootcampers.
Heart Surgeon boot camps doing okay? How about Law boot camps?
Coding bootcamps are dead? No, coding is dead.
Dude - your hair! You should keep that style!
I’m self taught and still have a job luckily…
@Clement, what are the requirements to get hired as a Software Engineer as a self-taught developer without any prior experience?
Thanks
New field.
I haven’t been able to find a software engineering job for 7 months, and it’s really frustrating. 😢
Maybe it’s time for a new field.
@Clement, Is it still worthy to go to Web Development?
How about devops bootcamp
It's almost like school is actually the right path after all 😅
Clement I know you love talking about this topic I can see it on your face
Good let’s go back to properly educated computer scientists vs. Tik Tok coders
I have an acquitance told me he is planning to quit his job (sales and marketing) cuz he's sick of working long hours and wants to do a 3 month boot camp and get a software engineer job so he can get a higher pay with less stress. Absolutely deLuLu, clearly missed the memo. 🤣 can't believe such ppl still exist 😅
The problem I see is when someone tells me that they attend a Bootcamp it tells me they need their hand held to learn coding. I WOULD NEVER HIRE A BOOTCAMP ATTENDEE. Like someone else said in the comments, they tend to stop learning after the bootcamp and put the class projects like "to do list" app on their resume. Get some experience through freelancing or doing real world projects for free. Or make a real world app that you can flesh out all the features and give it away for free on a forum.
Totally true. Most of the people stop learning after finishing bootcamp, instead of investing additional time to improve their skill...
How about me? I can do working eCommerce, forum, blog SPA applications with Laravel and Vue3. That means making a normalized MySQL database up to BCNF, back end with Laravel and front end with Vue.
I learned Relational Theory, MySQL, PHP, C++, Computer Architecture + little Assembly. I know some algorithms, Big O and its relatives and the math behind it, I can do analysis on algorithms. I learned Laravel, Vue3, CSS, HTML, JavaScript. I am rank 3 on Codewars.
I was a math student but leaved after 2 years.
@@bestopinion9257 Sounds like you have been working hard unlike some boot camp grads that think the certificate alone is a guaranteed job.
Maybe, focus in on one area and try freelancing or volunteering to do real world projects to build up your portfolio. But, congrats you are doing awesome.
@@terryhatfield4253 Thank you! The layoffs in the last years/months and AI revolution made me feel like I made the effort for nothing.
You look much better like this
no more blue hair
Is a telltale sign for the upcoming job losees so
Anyone here know of TripleTen is reputable. I was thinking about starting it and taking my time it’s a month 10 month course. While teaching myself. JS, C++, and Python 😅
i had a really bad experience with one
Dude you gained weight 😂
stress
Spent the past year and a half learning to code only to discover it was all a waste of time. Awesome.
I don't want to be jobless due to AI
So true 😂😂😂
Finally
True story: I got laid off
You can literally learn to code on RUclips for free... And also edx for free so coding bootcamp...