yup, straight flushes are hard to beat! But I'd say that he wins here 2/3 of the times anyone calls, and his fold equity on the turn should be pretty high, sets being as rare as they are.
Indeed, well played by hero. If players like CO and BUT regularly overvalue their hands, I see no other line available. Same for MP1, really, against tighter, more straightforward opponents it might be possible to save the $250,-, but in this situation and getting nearly 4:1, there is no getting away I think.
This hand was pretty sick! There are times, when I run into situations like that and there are times when I suckout like that. Problem is in such situations: You cant really know enough about your opponents and if there are more than one of them, I would like to make the nuts or otherwise its pretty suspicious if any opponent continues...
Cooler hand think he played it as well as he could and jamming the turn was perfect pretty sick that there was another 54s plus 108s which turned the higher straight then redraw to flush draw
I got it. figured it out last year. I was trying to catch up on things like spr, vpip, and other terms last year. Splitsuit helped me a lot in my the way I approach poker. too bad luck boxes keep smacking me in big pots. lol
Personally I find, that these small suited connectors are grossly overvalued. Typically people excuse playing them with "LOL implied odds". But in reality these implied odds are just not there, and particularly not in a multiway pot. Quite on the contrary there are actually some serious reverse implied odds. The problem is, that your cards are so low, that your strong hands are always on the bad side of the cooler. You hit a low straight, when someone else hit a higher straight. You hit a low flush vs. a higher flush, or get outdrawn when the board 4-flushes. You hit trips with a low kicker, when someone else has a better kicker. Or you hit bottom two pair, when someone else hit a higher two pair, or your hand get counterfeited by a board pair. The simple fact of the matter is, that big cards are better in poker than small cards. And having a potential to make a straight or flush does not compensate enough for that fact. And especially not when you are playing very multiway and have multible sources of reverse implied odds from people with higher cards, when you hit your "good" hands. So my big suggestion to people is actually to just fold this preflop, when the pot has already been opened. I dont want to call here and get involved in a multiway pot. And I also dont want to 3-bet. I have nothing wrong with 3-betting bluff hands, but if you go all the way down to 54 suited, you are 3-betting to much and with a to high bluffing frequenzy. So I would pick a higher suited connector or a suited ace as my bluff hands and not something as crappy as 54 suited.
While I kind of agree with the problem of the low flush (the reverse implied odds) i think connecting cards are well worth playing when deep enough...and so do most players. Lately I've been playing more unsuited connectors, which in a way feel "safer" because you can't go broke with a flush...kind of my own strategy..never read that in a book. In this hand, folding pre-flop would seem like a fairly reasonable idea just because of the number of players left to act...kind of agree, but as stated in the video, he was pretty sure the others would only limp, so that is the ideal spot for SCCs..and I guess losing 10 when you are that deep just doesn't matter really.
If you spend your poker life worrying about getting coolered by a T8 straight then you’re going to miss a lot of money making opportunities. Small suited connectors are obviously worse than large suited connectors, but when you draw a straight like this you *usually* are going to win big. Just not this time!
Another great video. Like the fact that hero did nothing wrong and that is also great motivation for us watching it who also would have made the same move as hero. Thanks
The google option seems to no longer be available. Love the videos. I have a hand analysis question. I'm in tourney with 8 players remaining. Starting stacks were 5k at tourney start. I'm in the small blind and everyone folds to me. I have k4 off suit. My stack is 14k and the BB has 13k. Blinds are 400/800. I complete the small blind. The BB checks his option. I know the player in the BB. He is a tight aggressive player but he sometimes gets a little shaky and stubborn at later stages of tourneys and has a tendency to bubble. The flop comes K 4 6 rainbow. I feel very good about my hand I opt to check. The BB bets 1200.00. I check raise to 3400. He calls. I put him on a hand like K9 through KJ. The turn card is a 5 and I decide to shove thinking he will call and I have a good chance to stack him. He calls showing K5 and another K hits the river and I'm crippled. Did I play the hand wrong or just get unlucky? I considered the possibility that he flopped a set of sixes before I shoved but didn't really think he had it. I loved the 5 on the turn and thought I had him. I'm thinking I could have checked the turn but I've put almost half of my stack in already and can't imagine checking and giving him the initiative and switching to a check call mode or even folding. I hope you review this hand. I'd love to hear your perspective. Thanks
On the flop. I read ed millers pokers 1% as you suggested and cant see the hand being in my 70% continuation range. Perhaps you could run a similar type of analysis for us?
Assuming you called PF with pairs, SCs, and some broadway hands...you'd be dropping 22, 44-55, maybe 77-88, and some broadway combos that aren't spades. Seems to fit nicely in a 70% continuance range.
Feeling bad for hero, cold deck all the way. In my opinion, he played it great and probably better than I would have. I would really considered raising either preflop or on the flop, and giving the stack sizes, it would have been a wrong move. Running into the joint while holding the second nuts is always painful and more often than not it will cost you your stack, but that's poker. In 9 out of 10 cases, hero would have won himself a big pot because of his good play, this time, he got unlucky. Just being curious, James: What would you have done if the 7 of spades would have hit on the turn? I'm usually still shiping it in for value, but I seem to run into tons of flushes late when doing that. Can I ever fold such a hand if villain isn't like a monster P-fish?
i don't think so..its a pretty interesting hand. the problem i really see there is pre and on the flop when hero put money in he probably would have had to fold to a substantial raise, and the other problem i see there is that with that many players in, someone is very likely drawing to the flush, and (as we see happen) drawing to a straight (not even the nut straight, either) when someone is drawing to a flush isn't always good strategy. As always, it comes down to guesswork and playing the players...if he really knew the others to be that passive, his play seems reasonable, but folding pre also seems pretty reasonable, no?
Here is our complete video on using SPR: ruclips.net/video/UwrkbXtJ55A/видео.html And if the SPR would be much smaller going into the flop, you should likely fold (or just semi-bluff 3bet preflop) rather than call it
The longer shot you are taking, the deeper stacks need to be make it worthwhile over the long haul. With 45s you are probably going to fold on the flop 90% of the time, and probably only end up winning half of those times..so let's say about 1 out of 20. When you do win, it is often quite big. Here he is calling 10 with effective stacks nearly 400. If he does this 20 times and wins one fat pot, it works out to be profitable...while it is impossible to formulate exact equations, you can easily see that the deeper the stacks are, the better it is to play these kinds of hands. It's the same story with hands like 22...you flop a set 1 in 7.5 times and probably have to fold the other times, so you have to play for the long haul...when you flop big you can hopefully win a big enough pot. You can't win a big enough pot ever if the SPR is too small, making it a bad idea.
Definitely a cooler. 3 players that limped in all hitting straights that required both hole cards? Extremely low chance. Even two players hitting straights is pretty unlikely when both hole cards are required. CO's straight flush reminds me of my own that I got last week. Limped in with J7s - not the greatest hand, of course, but gapped-suited connectors, for a limp from the button. Flopped the flush, so there was no chance I was folding the flop, and went heads up. Turned 8s, so four spades on board. Opponent raises me to all-in, and I gladly call. He hit the A-high flush on the turn, and most of the time would have had the nuts. I hit the J-high straight flush on the turn, however, so got paid off massively from the cooler.
If you aren't willing to (at least occasionally) risk 10/400 of your stack with a hand like that to try to see the flop, I suggest trying a new game....Honestly I wouldn't call there 100% of the time, but definitely half the time if I knew the player's tendencies as well as he claims to. I think the biggest pots are won (barring the rare AA vs. KK or set over set scenarios) with hands like that..if someone has a set or top two, or even just pocket rockets, you can sometimes really bust them...Just ask Texas Dolly or Daniel Negreanu, two of the best the game has ever seen! :-D
PLO GAME? DONK RERAISE ME WITH A66K? I have aaJ5? FLOP IS A78? i chek , he bets pot, i reraise him with top set, he go all in with only top pair, vs my top set :) snap call and he gets runne rrunner dimands flsuh, what can you do about that, and why are thooose donnks so lucky and why play they so bad, with there luck;
That is a cooler, cold deck, terrible luck or whatever you want to call it
Not only for hero but for MP1 too.
Hey, if I'm gonna get coolered by baby straight over nut straight, I'd at least want villain to improve to a straight flush on the river!
Great analysis, brutal result. Not even a chop!
yup, straight flushes are hard to beat! But I'd say that he wins here 2/3 of the times anyone calls, and his fold equity on the turn should be pretty high, sets being as rare as they are.
Indeed, well played by hero. If players like CO and BUT regularly overvalue their hands, I see no other line available.
Same for MP1, really, against tighter, more straightforward opponents it might be possible to save the $250,-, but in this situation and getting nearly 4:1, there is no getting away I think.
This hand was pretty sick! There are times, when I run into situations like that and there are times when I suckout like that. Problem is in such situations: You cant really know enough about your opponents and if there are more than one of them, I would like to make the nuts or otherwise its pretty suspicious if any opponent continues...
Cooler hand think he played it as well as he could and jamming the turn was perfect pretty sick that there was another 54s plus 108s which turned the higher straight then redraw to flush draw
I got it. figured it out last year. I was trying to catch up on things like spr, vpip, and other terms last year. Splitsuit helped me a lot in my the way I approach poker. too bad luck boxes keep smacking me in big pots. lol
Personally I find, that these small suited connectors are grossly overvalued. Typically people excuse playing them with "LOL implied odds". But in reality these implied odds are just not there, and particularly not in a multiway pot. Quite on the contrary there are actually some serious reverse implied odds.
The problem is, that your cards are so low, that your strong hands are always on the bad side of the cooler. You hit a low straight, when someone else hit a higher straight. You hit a low flush vs. a higher flush, or get outdrawn when the board 4-flushes. You hit trips with a low kicker, when someone else has a better kicker. Or you hit bottom two pair, when someone else hit a higher two pair, or your hand get counterfeited by a board pair.
The simple fact of the matter is, that big cards are better in poker than small cards. And having a potential to make a straight or flush does not compensate enough for that fact. And especially not when you are playing very multiway and have multible sources of reverse implied odds from people with higher cards, when you hit your "good" hands.
So my big suggestion to people is actually to just fold this preflop, when the pot has already been opened. I dont want to call here and get involved in a multiway pot. And I also dont want to 3-bet. I have nothing wrong with 3-betting bluff hands, but if you go all the way down to 54 suited, you are 3-betting to much and with a to high bluffing frequenzy. So I would pick a higher suited connector or a suited ace as my bluff hands and not something as crappy as 54 suited.
I would love to play heads-up for rolls against you. When will you be free?
While I kind of agree with the problem of the low flush (the reverse implied odds) i think connecting cards are well worth playing when deep enough...and so do most players. Lately I've been playing more unsuited connectors, which in a way feel "safer" because you can't go broke with a flush...kind of my own strategy..never read that in a book. In this hand, folding pre-flop would seem like a fairly reasonable idea just because of the number of players left to act...kind of agree, but as stated in the video, he was pretty sure the others would only limp, so that is the ideal spot for SCCs..and I guess losing 10 when you are that deep just doesn't matter really.
If you spend your poker life worrying about getting coolered by a T8 straight then you’re going to miss a lot of money making opportunities. Small suited connectors are obviously worse than large suited connectors, but when you draw a straight like this you *usually* are going to win big. Just not this time!
People are looking for the wrong things with small suiteds.
You don’t have to be a genius to understand that folding this hand in this position will be the most profitable thing to do over time
Another great video. Like the fact that hero did nothing wrong and that is also great motivation for us watching it who also would have made the same move as hero. Thanks
The google option seems to no longer be available. Love the videos. I have a hand analysis question. I'm in tourney with 8 players remaining. Starting stacks were 5k at tourney start. I'm in the small blind and everyone folds to me. I have k4 off suit. My stack is 14k and the BB has 13k. Blinds are 400/800. I complete the small blind. The BB checks his option. I know the player in the BB. He is a tight aggressive player but he sometimes gets a little shaky and stubborn at later stages of tourneys and has a tendency to bubble. The flop comes K 4 6 rainbow. I feel very good about my hand I opt to check. The BB bets 1200.00. I check raise to 3400. He calls. I put him on a hand like K9 through KJ. The turn card is a 5 and I decide to shove thinking he will call and I have a good chance to stack him. He calls showing K5 and another K hits the river and I'm crippled. Did I play the hand wrong or just get unlucky? I considered the possibility that he flopped a set of sixes before I shoved but didn't really think he had it. I loved the 5 on the turn and thought I had him. I'm thinking I could have checked the turn but I've put almost half of my stack in already and can't imagine checking and giving him the initiative and switching to a check call mode or even folding. I hope you review this hand. I'd love to hear your perspective. Thanks
On the flop. I read ed millers pokers 1% as you suggested and cant see the hand being in my 70% continuation range. Perhaps you could run a similar type of analysis for us?
Assuming you called PF with pairs, SCs, and some broadway hands...you'd be dropping 22, 44-55, maybe 77-88, and some broadway combos that aren't spades. Seems to fit nicely in a 70% continuance range.
sick cooler :)
Thanks.
You're very welcome!
Feeling bad for hero, cold deck all the way.
In my opinion, he played it great and probably better than I would have. I would really considered raising either preflop or on the flop, and giving the stack sizes, it would have been a wrong move.
Running into the joint while holding the second nuts is always painful and more often than not it will cost you your stack, but that's poker.
In 9 out of 10 cases, hero would have won himself a big pot because of his good play, this time, he got unlucky.
Just being curious, James: What would you have done if the 7 of spades would have hit on the turn? I'm usually still shiping it in for value, but I seem to run into tons of flushes late when doing that. Can I ever fold such a hand if villain isn't like a monster P-fish?
Call the $100 and fold to a shove if the 7♠ comes imo
LOL. "Here's a hand I played. It's a glorified bad beat story."
i don't think so..its a pretty interesting hand. the problem i really see there is pre and on the flop when hero put money in he probably would have had to fold to a substantial raise, and the other problem i see there is that with that many players in, someone is very likely drawing to the flush, and (as we see happen) drawing to a straight (not even the nut straight, either) when someone is drawing to a flush isn't always good strategy. As always, it comes down to guesswork and playing the players...if he really knew the others to be that passive, his play seems reasonable, but folding pre also seems pretty reasonable, no?
Don't get how SPR works or how it affects the play here. Even if your stack is smaller to the pot, you should still make the call no?
Here is our complete video on using SPR: ruclips.net/video/UwrkbXtJ55A/видео.html
And if the SPR would be much smaller going into the flop, you should likely fold (or just semi-bluff 3bet preflop) rather than call it
The Poker Bank Ye but why would we be going in to the flop with a drawing hand if our SPR was small, and then not call or shove on that board?
TheGreatslyfer We wouldn't. We'd either not call preflop OR we'd call preflop and get it in on the flop when we pick up a draw.
The longer shot you are taking, the deeper stacks need to be make it worthwhile over the long haul. With 45s you are probably going to fold on the flop 90% of the time, and probably only end up winning half of those times..so let's say about 1 out of 20. When you do win, it is often quite big. Here he is calling 10 with effective stacks nearly 400. If he does this 20 times and wins one fat pot, it works out to be profitable...while it is impossible to formulate exact equations, you can easily see that the deeper the stacks are, the better it is to play these kinds of hands. It's the same story with hands like 22...you flop a set 1 in 7.5 times and probably have to fold the other times, so you have to play for the long haul...when you flop big you can hopefully win a big enough pot.
You can't win a big enough pot ever if the SPR is too small, making it a bad idea.
Woaah straight flush!
what is spr
+Jose Flores Here is a full video explaining SPR: ruclips.net/video/UwrkbXtJ55A/видео.html
Stack to Pot Ratio
Definitely a cooler. 3 players that limped in all hitting straights that required both hole cards? Extremely low chance. Even two players hitting straights is pretty unlikely when both hole cards are required.
CO's straight flush reminds me of my own that I got last week. Limped in with J7s - not the greatest hand, of course, but gapped-suited connectors, for a limp from the button. Flopped the flush, so there was no chance I was folding the flop, and went heads up. Turned 8s, so four spades on board. Opponent raises me to all-in, and I gladly call. He hit the A-high flush on the turn, and most of the time would have had the nuts. I hit the J-high straight flush on the turn, however, so got paid off massively from the cooler.
Just a cooler move on
And that was how the worst player in the hand walked away with all the money. The end.
Clear fold,small sc's are over rated.
If you aren't willing to (at least occasionally) risk 10/400 of your stack with a hand like that to try to see the flop, I suggest trying a new game....Honestly I wouldn't call there 100% of the time, but definitely half the time if I knew the player's tendencies as well as he claims to.
I think the biggest pots are won (barring the rare AA vs. KK or set over set scenarios) with hands like that..if someone has a set or top two, or even just pocket rockets, you can sometimes really bust them...Just ask Texas Dolly or Daniel Negreanu, two of the best the game has ever seen! :-D
PLO GAME? DONK RERAISE ME WITH A66K? I have aaJ5? FLOP IS A78? i chek , he bets pot, i reraise him with top set, he go all in with only top pair, vs my top set :) snap call and he gets runne rrunner dimands flsuh, what can you do about that, and why are thooose donnks so lucky and why play they so bad, with there luck;
I've never heard of such a thing happening. Have you alerted CNN yet?
James (SplitSuit) Haha, can't stop laughing