For a beginner, I would always suggest to make everything to real world scale, and then maybe make a bit smaller player (175cm) character, than scaling and placing everything by eye-balling it. Especially for hobby games using a realistic art style, I can see the scale wacky all over the place, as the creators never bothered measuring anything.
Thanks for all your comments below the previous video. They helped me to create this video and consider some new topics for my channel,. I want to see more feedback. Don't forget to share this video with your friends and stay tuned for the next video.
Thanks 4 posting. Another question 4 you or group. I play msfs2020 flight sim. How would I make objects in the world appear life size? I flat screen TV may be to small even one that is 65" . Maybe a larger projection screen would help with 1 to 1 ratio I'm after. Flying near statue of liberty or sky scrappers just appear scaled down but not sure if that's my tv size or built into the actual game etc
Greetings Nikolay. Im an architect currently working on my PhD for precisely this topic. It's obvious that real world scale cant be used 1:1 in a videogame due to the 3 factors you've shown us. But im wondering if there is a rule of thumb or a minimum dimension when designing 3D models of a game environment and interior space? For example, for real architecture a single bedroom must be at least 3 meters x 3 meters to be considered comfortable. Are there figures like this for the architecture in videogames? If so, where can i learn more? Thanks in advanced.
Real scale does work and can look amazing in games. Look at the Modern Warfare Clean House mission. I've never seen a more realistic feeling mission in any FPS game. "The Making of Modern Warfare 2019's 'Clean House'' video explains it all pretty much - you can do it if want, you just have to put more work into it.
I thumbed up your video but in my opinion, real scale will always be superior. If done right, a real scale game can look better and much more realistic.
Интересно! Обычно изменение размеров достаточно незаметно и не бросается в глаза... Хотя, в свете этого, мне интересно, что разработчики сделали в Скайриме. Потому что с видом от первого лица возникает ощущение того, что камера находится где-то в районе живота )))
Rockstar and Naughty Dog have been pretty good at scaling their worlds. Walking around the world in RDR2 feels very well scaled. Same as walking around a house in The Last of Us 2
VR games are actually a lot closer to the real life scale, slightly bigger, but not for a huge margin. But when you import maps from regular "flat" games into VR it quickly becomes obvious how wrong the scale is, everything is so disproportionately huge. That's actually a huge problem with porting flat games into VR, and a lot of developers seem to ignore it.
Finally I got to understand why a gigantic 61m2 room in my unreal project looks smaller than my real 20m2 room I'm writing from. Immediate subscription, dude
I was just thinking about this topic today when I modeled a door after measuring the one in my bedroom "Why does it look so narrow?" Thanks for the awesome video, really informative.
Thanks alot, nice content. In zelda botw the environment size appear to seems really large like atleast it's 900 KM2 but, it's appear only 100 KM2, does it caused by how much multi-level terrain they have?, There's lot of mountain, hills, valley there. Even the forest have multi level terrain
@@nikolayshamaev ah ok, I recommend it, I think it's one of the "must play game" for environment artist. found video about it but, it's more discussed how environment affect the gameplay aspect rather than how level design affect environment aspect like yours. ruclips.net/video/kKUOEnF_5Es/видео.html anyway, nice content you have. this topic (level design) seems still rare to discussed in youtube compared to other like modelling or animation. cheers!
But actually relative scale of objects are closer to real scale in recent years, I believe. Remember how Max Pain 1 looked like in 2000. The scale is obviously "game scale". I also noticed the door in Last of us is actually wider than standard door size. I think doors, stairs and rooms are somehow NEED to be larger but the width of the streets and cars in GTA5 looks real scale to me (because the character must "get in" the car so the car must be real scale). The difference is not the scale sometimes. It think it's more like those illusions are created by layout and separation between foreground and background. I've found some video on GTA5 for this topic. It seems like, some objects (tank, house) is larger than actual while the mountain is far smaller than it appears to be. ruclips.net/video/tAHFK_Gx-PE/видео.html
I can't say I agree with all of your conclusions. What looks "right" is a subjective experience. The example you use to show real scale seeming too narrow and constrictive looks perfectly fine to me in first person except that your fov is too low. In third person I agree it doesn't work very well and would need adjustment. Meanwhile the extra wide doors and stairs you show as good design jump out at me as looking completely wrong. I understand it may be a necessary tradeoff in multiplayer games, but just going by looks the realistically scaled stairs looked much better to me. Most of these problems come from the fact the for whatever reason developers' idea of appropriate default fov always seem to be much lower than many players. Funny that you use GTA as an example. Rockstar is one of the worst offenders with ludicrously low default FOV. First time I tried to play Red Dead 2 in first person I nearly threw up. I checked the settings and there was an fov slider at least, though it had no values indicated. I turned it up as high as it would go and it was still bad. After a little research I found out their default FOV was around 72 horizontal and with the slider set to max it is 85 horizontal. Their "max" fov is lower than what the default should start at. With mods that turn the fov up to around 100, suddenly everything looked fine in first person.
Who TF built this building that you're referring to (not from gta)? I'm sorry, but that isn't realistically built to scale. If it was, your 5 foot 9 inch model wouldn't have the perspective of a 6 foot 7 inch person. Everything is off because the humanoid is very off. Also, Buildings have about 10 feet per level. Who TF does 8ft 8 inch in reality?
For a beginner, I would always suggest to make everything to real world scale, and then maybe make a bit smaller player (175cm) character, than scaling and placing everything by eye-balling it. Especially for hobby games using a realistic art style, I can see the scale wacky all over the place, as the creators never bothered measuring anything.
oh this is a good idea
175 CM (5'9'') is not small. Is the median height for males
@@markcorrigan3930 Smaller than he used in his example, or some almost 2 meter guy.
Ah, it all makes sense.
I've always wondered why my scenes would feel strange even though i'm using real world values for scale.
this is the issue that i was hoping someone talk about it,thank you very much,keep up the good work
Thanks for all your comments below the previous video. They helped me to create this video and consider some new topics for my channel,. I want to see more feedback. Don't forget to share this video with your friends and stay tuned for the next video.
interesting points thanks. What game is that being used as reference in Intro?
Nice video. I'm a bit ashamed to say I've literally never thought about this until now. Games truly are amazing.
Thank you
Thank you very much! А видео про масштаб "снаружи" не будет?(
Love your channel. Keep up the awesome content and thank you!
this "game scale" is very noticeable when playing a game that has been ported to vr
In your first person example, was the camera at the models eye height (around 168 cm) or at 180cm ?
What's the game at 4:36? Does anyone know?
Thanks 4 posting.
Another question 4 you or group.
I play msfs2020 flight sim.
How would I make objects in the world appear life size?
I flat screen TV may be to small even one that is 65" .
Maybe a larger projection screen would help with 1 to 1 ratio I'm after.
Flying near statue of liberty or sky scrappers just appear scaled down but not sure if that's my tv size or built into the actual game etc
Greetings Nikolay. Im an architect currently working on my PhD for precisely this topic. It's obvious that real world scale cant be used 1:1 in a videogame due to the 3 factors you've shown us. But im wondering if there is a rule of thumb or a minimum dimension when designing 3D models of a game environment and interior space?
For example, for real architecture a single bedroom must be at least 3 meters x 3 meters to be considered comfortable. Are there figures like this for the architecture in videogames? If so, where can i learn more? Thanks in advanced.
Helpful information. Thanks! What is the game at 1:26 btw?
Thanks. It's "The Division 2"
Quite eye opening. I’ve wasted more time complaining about my MMO environment being too large and didn’t stop to think and ask why.
Real scale does work and can look amazing in games. Look at the Modern Warfare Clean House mission. I've never seen a more realistic feeling mission in any FPS game. "The Making of Modern Warfare 2019's 'Clean House'' video explains it all pretty much - you can do it if want, you just have to put more work into it.
Nice video. This actually helps me as a beginner game developer
Thank you
First-person games don't always need a narrow FOV. I play with at least 120 degrees whenever possible.
I thumbed up your video but in my opinion, real scale will always be superior. If done right, a real scale game can look better and much more realistic.
Интересно! Обычно изменение размеров достаточно незаметно и не бросается в глаза...
Хотя, в свете этого, мне интересно, что разработчики сделали в Скайриме. Потому что с видом от первого лица возникает ощущение того, что камера находится где-то в районе живота )))
Хороший вопрос, было бы неплохо проверить
I really like your videos! Keep it up!
Thank you
Rockstar and Naughty Dog have been pretty good at scaling their worlds. Walking around the world in RDR2 feels very well scaled. Same as walking around a house in The Last of Us 2
VR games are actually a lot closer to the real life scale, slightly bigger, but not for a huge margin. But when you import maps from regular "flat" games into VR it quickly becomes obvious how wrong the scale is, everything is so disproportionately huge. That's actually a huge problem with porting flat games into VR, and a lot of developers seem to ignore it.
great video! it's so underrated
Thank you! Nice to hear
Блин, спасибо, очень интересно было послушать. Надеюсь увидеть от тебя тутор по рендеру умной колонки
Finally I got to understand why a gigantic 61m2 room in my unreal project looks smaller than my real 20m2 room I'm writing from. Immediate subscription, dude
I was just thinking about this topic today when I modeled a door after measuring the one in my bedroom "Why does it look so narrow?" Thanks for the awesome video, really informative.
Wow never tought of any of this issues
You really opened my eyes
Nice to hear, thank you
Thanks alot, nice content.
In zelda botw the environment size appear to seems really large like atleast it's 900 KM2 but, it's appear only 100 KM2, does it caused by how much multi-level terrain they have?, There's lot of mountain, hills, valley there. Even the forest have multi level terrain
Thank you. I should pay attention to this game. I have not played this game unfortunately
@@nikolayshamaev ah ok, I recommend it, I think it's one of the "must play game" for environment artist.
found video about it but, it's more discussed how environment affect the gameplay aspect rather than how level design affect environment aspect like yours.
ruclips.net/video/kKUOEnF_5Es/видео.html
anyway, nice content you have. this topic (level design) seems still rare to discussed in youtube compared to other like modelling or animation.
cheers!
Good vid. Notably, Max Payne 1 was so good about hiding this trick that I literally couldn't tell until I was told many years later.
But actually relative scale of objects are closer to real scale in recent years, I believe. Remember how Max Pain 1 looked like in 2000. The scale is obviously "game scale". I also noticed the door in Last of us is actually wider than standard door size. I think doors, stairs and rooms are somehow NEED to be larger but the width of the streets and cars in GTA5 looks real scale to me (because the character must "get in" the car so the car must be real scale). The difference is not the scale sometimes. It think it's more like those illusions are created by layout and separation between foreground and background. I've found some video on GTA5 for this topic. It seems like, some objects (tank, house) is larger than actual while the mountain is far smaller than it appears to be.
ruclips.net/video/tAHFK_Gx-PE/видео.html
I can't say I agree with all of your conclusions. What looks "right" is a subjective experience. The example you use to show real scale seeming too narrow and constrictive looks perfectly fine to me in first person except that your fov is too low. In third person I agree it doesn't work very well and would need adjustment. Meanwhile the extra wide doors and stairs you show as good design jump out at me as looking completely wrong. I understand it may be a necessary tradeoff in multiplayer games, but just going by looks the realistically scaled stairs looked much better to me.
Most of these problems come from the fact the for whatever reason developers' idea of appropriate default fov always seem to be much lower than many players. Funny that you use GTA as an example. Rockstar is one of the worst offenders with ludicrously low default FOV. First time I tried to play Red Dead 2 in first person I nearly threw up. I checked the settings and there was an fov slider at least, though it had no values indicated. I turned it up as high as it would go and it was still bad. After a little research I found out their default FOV was around 72 horizontal and with the slider set to max it is 85 horizontal. Their "max" fov is lower than what the default should start at. With mods that turn the fov up to around 100, suddenly everything looked fine in first person.
I don't agree. Bad results are just the case of wrong field of view, camera position and movement.
Спасибо субтитрам
My solution: Shrink the player.
This proves how you didn’t understand what’s being said in the video
Who TF built this building that you're referring to (not from gta)? I'm sorry, but that isn't realistically built to scale. If it was, your 5 foot 9 inch model wouldn't have the perspective of a 6 foot 7 inch person. Everything is off because the humanoid is very off. Also, Buildings have about 10 feet per level. Who TF does 8ft 8 inch in reality?