As a pro editor for years, no, it is not. Certain reactions come too quickly, concepts the responder needs half a second to digest before responding. Not including those makes it totally not realistic or reflective of an actual conversation. It ends up looking like something some RUclips idgit might post.
Me: An ADHD author who needs sound effects, graphics, charts, and costume changes to understand something -- trying to get people to read 100,000 words without any of those things 😂
The Freyberg graph is misleading. If the vertical axis is representing tension, the high point of tension should always be towards the end, not in the middle as it implies. Instead we should think of the climax as a inflection point, as you say, the turning point. The "climax" is the point where things accelerate in one or another direction. The "climax of tension" is just before the resolution. That moment of denouement is the time needed to process the emotions, parse what the story meant, and leave feeling cathartic.
I got into an argument with my sixth grade teacher over this because she said that the climax occurred close to the end even though she also said that there should be an equal number of things before and after the climax. It was really confusing and upset me a lot, and I think that's where my hatred for these shapes originated. Having said that, as an adult, I now recognize their importance, and I look forward to using them in the future.
be careful with save the cat i have read a number of books that were so predictable i knew what was going to happen long before it did and if i gave you a general description it would fit any of them
Yes, this is why I tend to avoid Save the Cat. It's a bit too prescriptive for me. But I wanted to offer it as an option for people who needed a more in-depth guide to plot points.
Just because a book is predictable, is it necessarily unenjoyable? These plot archetypes serve a function, but they are not written in stone; they can be altered or adapted. On the other hand, it is foolish for writers to try to subvert expectations just to catch readers off guard. Often when writers do that, they end up making a worse story. The plot archetypes exist for a reason. It is a structure that many successful stories have in common. There are many unsuccessful stories that break the structure or subvert it, but then you have The Last Jedi. I think you have a point about stories being predictable, but I think it is only something you should focus on after you understand the plot structure your story follows. In other words, learn the rules before you break them.
@@keithg460 True, but my brain becomes exhausted and almost overstimulated when I'm exposed to the same pattern over and over again. I was at karaoke the other day and they were putting on a bunch of pop-rock songs from the 2000s and 2010s (Linkin Park, Sugarcult, other bands I don't recognize), and almost all of the songs used the same set of progressions (maybe changing up one part, substituting a different chord, etc.) as well as the same set of themes, same type of language, and even the same kinds of melodies. I got overstimulated and wanted to cry at a certain point because it felt like I was being assaulted with one neverending song. This is how I feel about tropes and archetypes in writing. What separates a mediocre writer from a good writer is their ability to breathe life into tropes, and that's a rare talent indeed. Tropes describe things in vague, abstract terms, after all, so how one is implemented will always be unique. It's a question of how that uniqueness adds to the story. Make it too unique -- break the trope entirely -- and you'd better be going for a specific effect. After all, even I have to admit that seeing a hippo who's a world-class ballerina feels like 'Haha, you thought hippos could not be dextrous? You were wrong!' without any deeper impact.
Really great information in this video! I appreciated the overview and basic touches on all of the major shapes. The vocal audio was a little sharp or muffled throughout the video, and the clicks when text appeared on the screen made it difficult to just simply listen while doing other things. Would love softer editing sounds.
The Story Embryo is actually Dan Harmon's Circle, which in my opinion is the best and most flexible universal story structure because of how it can be used from scenes all the way to whole stories.
As someone whose first draft of a novel was slain and rejected recently, this is very helpful and informative. But what about Kurt Vonneguts Storyarc theory?
It might not get an Oscar for that acting... but it got the point across, and it was appreciated :D I can see that some of my stories have a few of these shapes when I make them, and to have names for them and a clearer view of what they are like, will help me a lot. I will probably use more than one to better flesh out my outline.
I MADE A SNOWFLAKE WITH NY FIRST NOVEL AND I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT!!! Thank you so much for this. I will definitely be checking this out again before I start my secret second novel. I need to make a new shape 🎉😎💪🏾🫂🕺🏾
Amazing stuff! Question: How would you say these shapes fit into stories that follow multiple POVs? Do you add more dimensions to an individual shape, or fill out multiple outlines? Neither?
This video gets Freytag's pyramid completely wrong and mixes it up with the modern six point structure. The exposition sets the story, the rising action (Freytag calls it the rising movement) progresses the story towards the climax. The climax is the turning point, the falling action is the plot reversing, and then finally, the catastrophe. In Romeo and Juliet, Freytag's climax is when Romeo and Juliet separate. The "modern climax" is when they both commit suicide together (which is towards the end). The rising movement is Romeo and Juliet getting closer until they marry, the climax is the turning point when they're forced to separate, the falling action is them moving further apart until death; the catastrophe. This is why this sort of structure works well for tragedy stories. Freytag himself only made tragedies and studied them and thought they were the perfect story type.
Honestly, I don't feel story structure is that important. As long as you write a coherent story, it will naturally have some kind of structure, even if you never thought about it.
what he did was cool! the audio wasn’t perfect but that’s how people learn and he’s a fairly new channel. I’m so confident he’s gonna blow up as a writing RUclipsr and he’ll refine his production along the way!
Good overview of various story structures - only annoying factor is the dialogue between the two characters - people will be deliberately skipping the dialogue to get to the essence of each piece of information. A simple 1-person presenter display would have been fine. Keep up the good work, though. Just be mindful that people may find the segues a bit unnecessary.
I've never been clear on the difference between a pinch point and a plot point before, so thank you!
You're welcome!
The editing in this video is on point 👏
As a pro editor for years, no, it is not. Certain reactions come too quickly, concepts the responder needs half a second to digest before responding. Not including those makes it totally not realistic or reflective of an actual conversation. It ends up looking like something some RUclips idgit might post.
@@tomlewis4748
Good and well, Mr. Pro Editor. What exactly is it you are a pro at editing?
I feel like you made this video for me, I'm really struggling with my plot right now 😂
As someone who does not understand plot structures well unless examples are given, I appreciate this with the added humor! More memorable this way
Me: An ADHD author who needs sound effects, graphics, charts, and costume changes to understand something -- trying to get people to read 100,000 words without any of those things 😂
You are so underrated, very informative, and hilarious!
PS: I wasn't expecting all that muscle lol
Ha ha! Thank you so much!
The Freyberg graph is misleading. If the vertical axis is representing tension, the high point of tension should always be towards the end, not in the middle as it implies. Instead we should think of the climax as a inflection point, as you say, the turning point. The "climax" is the point where things accelerate in one or another direction. The "climax of tension" is just before the resolution. That moment of denouement is the time needed to process the emotions, parse what the story meant, and leave feeling cathartic.
Yes, good clarifications.
I got into an argument with my sixth grade teacher over this because she said that the climax occurred close to the end even though she also said that there should be an equal number of things before and after the climax. It was really confusing and upset me a lot, and I think that's where my hatred for these shapes originated. Having said that, as an adult, I now recognize their importance, and I look forward to using them in the future.
Your videos have been invaluable to me. I have been working on my first novel after years of jotting down endless ideas and procrastinating lol.
Glad to hear it! Many more videos on the way.
Yes, save the cat does feel painfully formulaic...(at least, it does if you're a dyslexic who picks up on patterns).
But it is good for movies and TV scripts. Books, not so much, unless you're using it with another story structure formula.
Thank you, you are the first person to explain the difference between a plot point and a pinch point!
be careful with save the cat i have read a number of books that were so predictable i knew what was going to happen long before it did and if i gave you a general description it would fit any of them
Yes, this is why I tend to avoid Save the Cat. It's a bit too prescriptive for me. But I wanted to offer it as an option for people who needed a more in-depth guide to plot points.
Just because a book is predictable, is it necessarily unenjoyable?
These plot archetypes serve a function, but they are not written in stone; they can be altered or adapted.
On the other hand, it is foolish for writers to try to subvert expectations just to catch readers off guard. Often when writers do that, they end up making a worse story.
The plot archetypes exist for a reason. It is a structure that many successful stories have in common. There are many unsuccessful stories that break the structure or subvert it, but then you have The Last Jedi.
I think you have a point about stories being predictable, but I think it is only something you should focus on after you understand the plot structure your story follows.
In other words, learn the rules before you break them.
@@keithg460
True, but my brain becomes exhausted and almost overstimulated when I'm exposed to the same pattern over and over again. I was at karaoke the other day and they were putting on a bunch of pop-rock songs from the 2000s and 2010s (Linkin Park, Sugarcult, other bands I don't recognize), and almost all of the songs used the same set of progressions (maybe changing up one part, substituting a different chord, etc.) as well as the same set of themes, same type of language, and even the same kinds of melodies. I got overstimulated and wanted to cry at a certain point because it felt like I was being assaulted with one neverending song.
This is how I feel about tropes and archetypes in writing. What separates a mediocre writer from a good writer is their ability to breathe life into tropes, and that's a rare talent indeed. Tropes describe things in vague, abstract terms, after all, so how one is implemented will always be unique. It's a question of how that uniqueness adds to the story. Make it too unique -- break the trope entirely -- and you'd better be going for a specific effect. After all, even I have to admit that seeing a hippo who's a world-class ballerina feels like 'Haha, you thought hippos could not be dextrous? You were wrong!' without any deeper impact.
I like the new format. I am used to your tiktoks and I like this too.
Thank you! Just having fun and trying something new.
Only watched like 3 of your vids and I’m loving them such an underrated RUclipsr!
Oh, thank you so much! I appreciate the kind words.
Really great information in this video! I appreciated the overview and basic touches on all of the major shapes.
The vocal audio was a little sharp or muffled throughout the video, and the clicks when text appeared on the screen made it difficult to just simply listen while doing other things. Would love softer editing sounds.
0:44 I cannot tell if five spelled fve was on accident or on purpose xD
Very informative video and entertaining. Thanks!
Very good, keep going!
Thanks, you too!
Question on the Seven Point Plot Structure: can the first pinch come before the first plot turn?
Just love how creative you are
Thanks Austin
This is unbelievably helpful, thank you! As someone who prefers character-driven novels, I’m a big fan of the snowflake method 😊
I didn't realize that there was so many structures. That's pretty neat! Thank you for sharing.
This channel deserves more views
The freytag pyramid is basically what I’m using to plot my manuscript. But I think I ended up using the seven point structure 😅
This was an incredibly helpful video.
I am so glad I run into your account
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!this helped me start my book series
Glad to hear it!
The story embryo looks a little like the infamous hero's journey. Are they similar?
Similar, but also distinctly different.
The Story Embryo is actually Dan Harmon's Circle, which in my opinion is the best and most flexible universal story structure because of how it can be used from scenes all the way to whole stories.
Pinch point vs plot point great explanation!
this was a fun video that explained things in an entertaining way. kudos!
Amazing video ❤
As someone whose first draft of a novel was slain and rejected recently, this is very helpful and informative. But what about Kurt Vonneguts Storyarc theory?
That's another good one! I could probably do a whole other video on ones I didn't mention here.
@@Bookfox Please do :)
Your videos are so, so helpful, thank you so much for posting them!
spot on humor and info! looking forward to using the save the cat framework for my novel. cheers :)
It might not get an Oscar for that acting... but it got the point across, and it was appreciated :D I can see that some of my stories have a few of these shapes when I make them, and to have names for them and a clearer view of what they are like, will help me a lot. I will probably use more than one to better flesh out my outline.
I MADE A SNOWFLAKE WITH NY FIRST NOVEL AND I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT!!!
Thank you so much for this. I will definitely be checking this out again before I start my secret second novel. I need to make a new shape 🎉😎💪🏾🫂🕺🏾
This was such a great video!! Thank you so much!
The Embryo method is the same as Dan Harmon's story circle.
Amazing stuff! Question: How would you say these shapes fit into stories that follow multiple POVs? Do you add more dimensions to an individual shape, or fill out multiple outlines? Neither?
I think each character has a storyline that can follow one of these shapes.
You're awesome!! This is very helpful stuff, Thank you!
this has been so helpful, thank you for this!
Great video!! Don’t know why you don’t have more subscribers
Fun video thanks
this video is so cool, I appreciate your affort and love the characters
this was actually excellent. Well done! 🤘
Fun. So many cuts… how long did this take to make?
Nicely done.
This video gets Freytag's pyramid completely wrong and mixes it up with the modern six point structure. The exposition sets the story, the rising action (Freytag calls it the rising movement) progresses the story towards the climax. The climax is the turning point, the falling action is the plot reversing, and then finally, the catastrophe.
In Romeo and Juliet, Freytag's climax is when Romeo and Juliet separate. The "modern climax" is when they both commit suicide together (which is towards the end). The rising movement is Romeo and Juliet getting closer until they marry, the climax is the turning point when they're forced to separate, the falling action is them moving further apart until death; the catastrophe. This is why this sort of structure works well for tragedy stories. Freytag himself only made tragedies and studied them and thought they were the perfect story type.
Honestly, I don't feel story structure is that important. As long as you write a coherent story, it will naturally have some kind of structure, even if you never thought about it.
Great video!
Very interesting, thank you ! What story structure would you use if you were to write a murder story ?
That was hilarious. 😄
So this whole time since I been writing from 11 years old I been writting in Freytag's Pyramid??? I'm 45!!
So looking for alaska follows which kind of plot ???
I used to view you editors as the enemy but now I see youre my best ally 😌🥃
We are on your side!
These structures are umplying you make your story fut that structure regardless...a little contrary to art
I'm really into this video but there is sth wrong with the audio, sounds like you're sitting at the end of a tunnel
what he did was cool! the audio wasn’t perfect but that’s how people learn and he’s a fairly new channel. I’m so confident he’s gonna blow up as a writing RUclipsr and he’ll refine his production along the way!
More RUclipsrs should do their videos from hot tubs! 😄
Ha ha! Just trying to create some variety!
Good overview of various story structures - only annoying factor is the dialogue between the two characters - people will be deliberately skipping the dialogue to get to the essence of each piece of information. A simple 1-person presenter display would have been fine. Keep up the good work, though. Just be mindful that people may find the segues a bit unnecessary.
Hilarious!
I thought the embryo was the heroin addicts’s journey?
I feel like you just lied about the structure of Romeo and Juliet but ok
Это тоже не помогает.
ye lo the algorithm provideth that I may eat
All 7 of these suck. I would never write these
Subbed
Thank you! Hope you enjoy the next videos I've got coming up.