Fascinating story. I must commend you on not only a wonderful story, but a story *extremely well-told.* Your diction, pacing, vocabulary, tone of voice, pitch...your voice was so calming, like a lullaby. A treat to listen to.
He did a wonderful job of explaining every detail. I didn't get confused or lost. He did a fantastic job of detective work, with surprising results. Great video.
I have my own NPE that started my journey, but wanted to commend you on using Genetic Genealogy to solve your family mystery! I found your video because your daughter said to check it out on another video--Keep us posted as you find out more! We're invested now!
Your story! I love it. It’s filled with real people, and you describe them with a generous heart. Youve combined the usefulness of science, court records, newspaper archives, family lore and city directories. Such impressive tenacity blended with patience! And you TELL the story compellingly!
All those secrets from so long ago. Back then they thought no one would ever know. Not only are the secrets being revealed but also being shared for millions of people to see them. Thank you for such a very interesting story
This was wonderful! I enjoyed seeing your thought pattern as you worked through the mystery. I and several family members have tested and we've found a mystery of our own. Your story has given me some ideas. Thanks for sharing!
Oh, my! What a story! It's just amazing the footwork and head-scratching connecting-the-dots process you went through to uncover a thoroughly buried family secret. I can't imagine Pearl's chagrin should she still be alive and find the beans have been spilled! Previous to DNA testing, a person could do their geneaology just through birth certificates and yet never know the truth. Your hard investigative conclusions about your lineage per the DNA clues was amazing. I had no idea a person could do all that. Congratulations on your work: it's so complicated, to me, that I would have given up right at the gate. I can't get over Pearl thinking, "Darn. Someone finally figured it out!"
Hi Russ! You did an awesome job of digging and sleuthing and figuring things out! I give you a lot of credit! It is tragic how some of the girls were married so young. I have grandmother's and great-aunts, etc. who were married so young. One of my ancestors was married at just 12 years and 3 months old and he was 14 1/2 years older than her. My grandmother's were 14 and 15, and that's just 3 of them. The list goes on. Thank you for such a good explanation of your steps. Kudos to your wife too. It's great to have someone to take the journey with! LOL . I had watched another video and I believe it was your daughter that said you had done a video on DNA. That's how I found yours.
This video came up in my suggestions and I am glad it did, as I have been trying to solve a similar puzzle. My paternal grandmother's paternal grandfather was something of a mystery man, and years of research combined with my autosomal DNA matches have led me the conclude that my great-great-grandfather was not whom I thought he was, but someone else entirely who was never married to my grandmother's grandfather. I may never conclusively solve my conundrum, but your research has given me hope.
Captivated from start to finish! From one family historian to another, thank you so much for this insightful video. I really must make a video about about how I found my grandmother (an illegitimate war baby)'s biological father. However, she is still alive, so it still feels a little "raw".
Mr. Marsh, be very happy who you are. Family is not only blood it is culture and relationship. So your grandfather was a Smith instead of a Marsh. You were very fortunate that you had such a wonderful relationship with Ralph. What a person lives is what truly makes he/she who they are. It's not just about your name.
I enjoyed your story because I love history and the perseverance you took involving yourself further in the various DNA tests to gain information was above and beyond what the average person would do to gain information about their family history. You answered yourself you are a Marsh and always will be one but you just have the mystery and knowledge of knowing the real information of yourself and family but doesn’t change who you are as a person and how you were reared the determination that you have you got from your parents. You would be a great teacher or professor with your determination for your students to succeed.
Absolutely fascinating. Thank you for the careful research and artful presentation. I don't usually watch U-tubes that are so long, but I simply could not stop!
As a Smith born female, I am impressed. Working with the surname Smith is a challenge, at best. It is even harder in the deep south where there are very few infant baptismal records. Most are Baptists, who do not christen their children. This story was fascinating.
Beautifully told with honesty, compassion and understanding.. Excellent research on your part! Thank you so very much for sharing your journey with us!
Thank you for sharing this. I have been researching my family history for many years now and have also found DNA to be a useful tool for confirmation. Your story is fascinating and your presentation excellent. I learned alot. Thanks again.
Thanks Russ, I enjoyed this video very much. I have very recently discovered that the grandad my brother and I knew and loved wasn't our biological grandfather! It's been quite a shock. I had worked on the Pallister family line for years and had it back to 1540 and had uncovered several interesting stories and have been in touch with and met up with many people I believed to have been cousins, many of which are in my 'Tangential Cousins' Facebook group. I even went on holiday this year to meet up with one of them. So now the search in on to discover who my dad's birth father/parents were and I'm currently awaiting a Y-111 kit for my brother and I've also ordered two 23andMe autosomal kits for both of us since we can't upload our Ancestry data there. The most difficult part of this for me is how long it may take to find the answers to this conundrum so I definitely need to learn to be more patient! I'm very glad I found your video.
Your story was so well laid out and interesting. I too found a family mystery. My grandmother's father was not her biological father. We've figured out our genetic mystery but it hasn't changed who we are in any way.
Thank you Russ. I really enjoyed the video and could have listened to you for another couple of hours. I loved how you provided the step by step process you used to rule out possibilities and come to a conclusion based on solid evidence. Fascinating.
What a journey. Enjoyed listening to it. Helps others in directions to attempt through dna. Congratulations on finding an answer. You are quite a sleuth!
Long story short... I just found out through my brother's DNA testing and comparing it to my dad's brother's DNA results, that there is a big question mark with my dad's parents and who they really are for my dad only. Haplogroups are different for my uncle and brother. I am devastated and never questioned it before in all these years. Just like you going back with your Marsh relatives and finding out differently. You never gave up. I am so impressed with your journey of finding out the truth and I will keep researching until I find out the truth I need to know. Thank you so much for sharing your thorough conclusions. It's nice to know that your wife was along with you in the journey. Wish me luck. I'm going to need it after I get over the shock of now knowing my dad's surname (and me and my brother) is not our correct surname.
It is distressing when you find out your surname is not biologically real. It's hard to be angry at deceased relatives you never knew. So many unanswered questions. As a female I suppose it isn't a huge deal bc our surnames change with marriage, but all my brothers and nephews have a surname that doesn't actually belong to them. For my family, the true biological ancestor was very near and easy to locate. Good luck in your search Kathleen.
Maisie Ravier I reluctantly changed my name to his when I married my husband in the 60s. I didn't want to for 2 reasons. I didn't want to lose my identity (that's how I thought in the 60s) and my groom had a not so nice surname that I didn't like (and people would make fun of). Well, I divorced the hubs and took back my maiden name and I love my maiden name, so it is important to me. The other thing that upsets me is that my grandfather that I've known, is a loving and well respected man. I mourn the loss of him, in a sense. It will take time, I think. I hope. Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated.
Just Pleies Oh, of course. I pray you will find answers and some peace in what you do find. There are a couple of FB groups you might want to join and see if you find some ideas and help there. One that's really great is DNA Detectives. A really great group of people that are all in the same boat and help each other through each step of what's needed to be done. Good luck to you on this journey. It's going to take time and we'll have to be patience, but I believe we both will be able to get through it all and be at peace with the outcome.
My husband is 5'8 and I am 5'4. Our sons are both over 6'2 and our daughter is 5'8. There are a couple of tall people on both sides of my family but average 5'11 and under on my husbands side. My grandfather was 6'5.
Your story just reinforces something my husband says on a regular basis - be careful what you ask for! Nowhere is this more true than in digging for answers in genealogy. And guess what? You don't even have to do DNA to find some of the surprises that are waiting for you. In my own research into my mother's family I discovered that her family name would originally have been Delancy rather than Reed. This was because her great-grandfather (surname Delancy) turned out to be a bigamist, who had simply walked away from his first wife and children without bothering to go through a legal divorce, therefore making the children of his second marriage illegitimate. Because that marriage was null and void, the children's names would have reverted to Berry, their mother's surname before the marriage. A family hero stepped in in the form of Mr. Reed, marrying her and adopting all the children. Needless to say, some family members found this information terribly shocking and scandalous. Heaven only knows what we would find if we ran the DNA.
You can go back a lot farther than I can. Being a female I have no way of telling who my father's grandfsthers were. My brother has used his dna, but hasn't gotten very far. Thank you for your research and information.
Fascinating, thank you for explaining so well. I have been doing my family tree this last 6-7 years, the first few years were spent doing the tree, 2-3 years ago I had a DNA test on Ancestry, and had to restart at least a quarter of the tree, when it became clear that I was not in fact dna related to someone who I believed was part of my direct line of descent. I had to do similar detective work in order to figure it all out. I think a great many people would get such surprises if they were to start their genealogy, it also surprised me that in the 1600's-1800's, it was very common that very young girls, married very old men.
This is an amazing story of outstanding research. It's like the plot of a mystery novel. Your presentation was especially interesting to me because my Y-chromosome is also J-M172, and like you, I always assumed my paternal line would be pure European since my ancestors came to America from Germany.
Great story!!, thanks for sharing, my husbands family did it the hard way but they eventually found the answer that their Grandfather at 15 got a 21 year old girl pregnant and because of his age it was not recorded, they found a family member who lived in Newfoundland who remembered the story.
Great story teller. Great story. If your not a writer, you should be. Your presentation was simple and direct. A real fascinating tale. Good luck to you. My father is a mystery. I’m taking the Ancestry Test in January 2021.
Thank you. Your story is so interesting , and it provided such a clear idea of how you reasoned from the DNA evidence and used it in conjunction with other evidence!
Fascinating! I've done some research to unlock the real name and, therefore, ancestors of my husband's great-grandfather. (There was a family story that the name had been changed, but not which generation that happened.)The fact that my husband's surname follows this line is important. Some folks thought that there was no reason for me to be so interested, but it has been my surname for almost fifty years. I would never have found it without dna. If I had seen your video first, it probably wouldn't have taken me so long.
8 yrs later... this was awesome. I wonder why you did not approach your dad to take this test? This would further solidify your conclusions. Although I do understand why you would not want to upend your dad's world with these revelations!
DNA is the way forward in Ancestry. Paper trail doesn’t mean much. I’m prepared for the surprises. Excellent presentation and research. Will take on board your methodology.
You're wrong about that. The paper trail, when it exists, is a lot more precise than a DNA test. The DNA test is really only useful for verifying the paper trail and for filling in the gaps when the paper trail does not exist or is in error.
Amazing! I don't know how you found all this information, but it is amazing!! This would be great to document all your info and make it a documentary...I'm anxious for an update...
Shirley, I initially tested YDNA 37 markers at familytreedna.com. Then I upgraded to 67 markers. And finally 111 markers. They only have 1 more upgrade called the BigY 500. Interestingly, it costs > $500 and I'm not motivated to pay for it. It also wouldn't tell me anything new because it's only useful if other matches have paid for it.
I wonder why old vintage photos show people with such somber expressions. It was like no one was very happy. This is such a cool story. Pearl deserves a book written about her life and a movie!
I agree about the movie. Couple of things I didn't discuss in the youtube... She and her sister were riding horses and ran into Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce tribe who was on the "war path" trying to preserve his people's lands against European settlers. Her story says that he was polite and told them to take cover so they would not be harmed. Also, her father, Hyrum Maynard was accused and tried for involvement in the Snake River Massacre. Three men, not including her father, went down on to the Snake River an killed an unknown number of Chinese men who were panning for gold. Historians believe the killed as many as 30 men and ran off with a very significant amount of gold. Hyrum Maynard was accused of being a "lookout" but was found not guilty by a jury of his peers. Pearl maintained that her father was innocent.
Photography equipment back then was very very different from what we have today, much much slower to process and so the subject/s had to be very careful not to move or it would blur the result and they'd need to start over again - and it was not cheap.
@@BeatlesFanSonia I remember having my photograph taken and have the actual photographs. I remember the photographer telling me not to move or smile. I am 82 years old.
I had a great aunt Pearl (Abbott) who I believed through my ancestry tree was married to a gentleman named “Doc” Maynard when she was a young girl. It’s 12:45 in the morning and I hear you talk about Pearl Maynard and I can’t believe my ears. But then the people you describe as her parents are not my ancestors Melvin M Abbott and Matilda (Keathley) Abbott so it’s not the same Pearl but it truly caught my attention. Lol Good luck in your search, I have hit a roadblock searching for my great grandfather Melvin M Abbott who had the daughter Pearl who I believed was married to Doc Maynard. My roadblock brought me to your podcast.
Thank you particularly for the DNA details. The surprises and dead ends sometimes are there for a reason, as we learn. It was very enlightening to listen to.
Clearly there was a disruption in the line, so to speak. As for the Middle Eastern ancestry, it occurs with nesrky everyone who is western European, if you go back far enough on Y dna. Me, my male relatives, Thomas Jefferson etc etc. Because that's the way we all came into Europe from Africa. Nothing unusual. Doesn't mean you aren't European.
Truly excellent research. Thank-you. She was strong enough to choose for happiness and love in unconducive circumstances. And it is interesting that the March couple finally divorced at the time your ancestor's height would have shot up so far beyond Marsh norms.
Thanks for the journey! You were so lucky that you had all those very close Y-DNA matches that could give you the name. My husband's 2x-great-grandfather is unknown (his 2x-grandma was unmarried) so he took a Y-DNA test to see if the results might point him to a name or two. Unfortunately, he has *no* close Y-DNA matches at all, so it's led us nowhere. We can only wait. I did wonder in your story ... your conclusion that Pearl had an affair with Herschel means that Pearl's dad Hiram married Herschel's ex-wife around the same time that grandfather was born. In a comment I see you said that Herschel had a son about 8 years old at the time. So Hiram's stepson was also the half-brother of Hiram's grandson. Whew! That gets tangled quickly. I wonder how Herschel's ex-wife got together with Hiram in the first place? Were there any family stories about that?
Very interesting! I'm currently in the middle of a similar saga in trying to determine the paternity of my male-line great-grandfather. Unlike your story, however, it was always known that my great-grandfather was born out of wedlock. Similarly, though, there was a long-believed myth as to who his biological father was until DNA disproved it. Anyway, I hope to eventually track down the "culprit" as you did. :-) Thanks!
There was a big stigma 100 years plus back of having a bastard child. Often it happened back then if a daughter got pregnant she and the mother would go away to "visit an aunt." When they returned the child was passed off as a menopause baby.
so do you think maybe your g great grandfather is you gg grandfather and perhaps his daughter had a child out of wed lock that he and her mother claimed their child as theirs to keep away the stigma of being a bastard. I think one of your "aunts" had a relationship with a Smith.
Or perhaps that couple you are referring to adopted her brother's child. but just because her maiden name was Smith means nothing. That is a very common name.
Here is my family story. My grandmother tended to not carry her babies full term. At Christmas time 1919 she had already lost 3 children born as either preemies who did not make it or miscarriages. Two died before my grandfather went to war (WWI) and the last was a very recent miscarriage after he came home. She was in a train station one day while out Christmas shopping; to use the bathroom; that was the only public bathroom around. She met a woman with a baby, waiting for a train. She got to talking to her as she ooed and awed over the baby, it turned out this woman had gotten PG right before her husband returned from war, the child was obviously not his. So she told him her grandmother was ill and she had to go help her. She was gone for several months, the baby was by then about 2-3 months old and she was returning home. She told my grandmother she intended to leave the baby in the station but she wanted her to have him as she knew she would take good care of him. So my grandmother took him home. My grandfather first thought she had lost her mind, but she finally convinced him of what happened. They were allowed to adopt him, but he only lived a few months, died at 6-7 months. The doctor said from malnutrition during pregnancy. Later my grandmother had 7 more children. All born at 7 months or less. Five of them lived to adulthood including my mother.
My son is 6'4, and his father was 5'11", and I am 5'4". My husband's lineage is Belarusian and Ukrainian, and I am Portuguese and Spaniard. I have a daughter too, with same husband, and she's 5'5".
Viewed this on 08.16.2020. Very nice presentation from a determined researcher. Curious to know how long you investigated before putting this together. Fascinating story! And seven brothers!
This was amazing. I also got to a dead end on my family tree. I just order my dna test. I hope I can untangle mine. I do suspect my grandmother was a illegitimate child.
Wow, your great grandfather's hail from the same territory, as my maternal Grandmothers family. Can not remember if I'd heard your name, there was such large families, back then... love hearing these stories!
Wow Russ, you are quite the researcher and intellect. What a great story. When I heard that Bill threatened the life of Herschel in 1906 I was thinking Bingo, we definitely know why!! Most likely "stay away from my wife or else" Herschel really must have been obsessed with Pearl as after that threat two years later RALPH was born! Did I get all that right?
You got it right. I often wonder about the heartache that must have burdened all 3 of them. In some fashion it carried though to my grandfather as he was a boy when they divorced and he was traumatized by it
There is an argument for leaving things well enough alone. It seems unfair to those passed on to dredge their dirty laundry. It is also a little disconcerting for living family members. In my family for example, my dad and his siblings have chosen to let it lie because it suggests that the grandfather they loved is not their grandfather genetically speaking. And their feelings matter which is my chief concern in perpetuating this story. However, the flip side is that it has some relevance to the living, though I have struggled to articulate what that might be.
You ain't just whistling Dixie. My view on this, as a somewhat traumatized (lol) person by the results of DNA tests is that there is nothing more important than the truth. The Bible says the truth will set your free. This is part of my life story. People don't think about the consequences of their actions having a ripple effect in the lives of many descendants. I personally don't feel it is unfair to drudge up their indiscretions. They have caused a world of hurt for many and if alive I'd be at their door demanding answers.I just hold to the truth being more important than anyone's feelings. Facts are facts and we just have to come to terms with them. Denial helps no one.
I don't think I would be knocking on anyone's door, but after doing my test and seeing that I had a different father than I thought and also half-siblings, the thing I regret the most is that if my paternity had been known, I possibly could have met grandparents and aunts that were still living in the area where I grew up (like, a few miles away). But now, they have all passed, a couple pretty recently.
Great story! And very well presented. I am curious what your father thinks of your discovery. Also Kutis on the photographs to enhance the storytelling. I've been doing genealogy for almost 30 years now but I have yet to start the DNA process
Thanks for the note. This issue is sensitive to my father and his siblings. The older siblings remember their grandfather and are saddened at the suggestion that he is not their biological grandfather. It's also sensitive because it means their own father went to his grave not knowing that his father wasn't his father. It's a bit of a contradiction when I say that I am sensitive to their concerns when I have published the story on youtube. I am telling myself that they're not youtube savvy and are not likely aware that I've done this. I hope I'm right because I care about them.
That is such an interesting story. I have a similar issue in my Y test. I have first second and third cousins that are in my dna matches but my Y surname comes back Mashburn and includes Marsh. I am thinking my fourth great grandfather was fathered by a Mashburn and raised a Craven. Thanks for the story.
This was one of the BEST brick wall deduction cases I’ve ever read/heard of. Excellent detective work through dna!!
Thanks Lucy!!
@@rjmjrjm So cool that you pinned a post. Didn't notice that until now
Muy bueno. Desde el principio "me enganché".
Fascinating story. I must commend you on not only a wonderful story, but a story *extremely well-told.* Your diction, pacing, vocabulary, tone of voice, pitch...your voice was so calming, like a lullaby. A treat to listen to.
He did a wonderful job of explaining every detail. I didn't get confused or lost. He did a fantastic job of detective work, with surprising results.
Great video.
Fascinating story! Well researched, and well told. I like that you didn't jump to conclusions, but meticulously kept digging.
I have my own NPE that started my journey, but wanted to commend you on using Genetic Genealogy to solve your family mystery! I found your video because your daughter said to check it out on another video--Keep us posted as you find out more! We're invested now!
Thank you, Russ. Your thoughtful, measured approach to your family history mystery is instructive and inspiring.
Excellent presentation! Held me fascinated throughout. A true story documentary to be proud of. Very, very well done👏👏👏👏👏
Thank you Chris.
Your story! I love it. It’s filled with real people, and you describe them with a generous heart. Youve combined the usefulness of science, court records, newspaper archives, family lore and city directories. Such impressive tenacity blended with patience! And you TELL the story compellingly!
All those secrets from so long ago. Back then they thought no one would ever know. Not only are the secrets being revealed but also being shared for millions of people to see them. Thank you for such a very interesting story
This was wonderful! I enjoyed seeing your thought pattern as you worked through the mystery. I and several family members have tested and we've found a mystery of our own. Your story has given me some ideas. Thanks for sharing!
Oh, my! What a story! It's just amazing the footwork and head-scratching connecting-the-dots process you went through to uncover a thoroughly buried family secret. I can't imagine Pearl's chagrin should she still be alive and find the beans have been spilled! Previous to DNA testing, a person could do their geneaology just through birth certificates and yet never know the truth. Your hard investigative conclusions about your lineage per the DNA clues was amazing. I had no idea a person could do all that. Congratulations on your work: it's so complicated, to me, that I would have given up right at the gate. I can't get over Pearl thinking, "Darn. Someone finally figured it out!"
Hi Russ! You did an awesome job of digging and sleuthing and figuring things out! I give you a lot of credit! It is tragic how some of the girls were married so young. I have grandmother's and great-aunts, etc. who were married so young. One of my ancestors was married at just 12 years and 3 months old and he was 14 1/2 years older than her. My grandmother's were 14 and 15, and that's just 3 of them. The list goes on. Thank you for such a good explanation of your steps. Kudos to your wife too. It's great to have someone to take the journey with! LOL . I had watched another video and I believe it was your daughter that said you had done a video on DNA. That's how I found yours.
This video came up in my suggestions and I am glad it did, as I have been trying to solve a similar puzzle. My paternal grandmother's paternal grandfather was something of a mystery man, and years of research combined with my autosomal DNA matches have led me the conclude that my great-great-grandfather was not whom I thought he was, but someone else entirely who was never married to my grandmother's grandfather. I may never conclusively solve my conundrum, but your research has given me hope.
Best of luck in your journey!!
Fantastic story! Howq about giving us a 2020 update?Thanks Rich
Excellent detective work! I think if I had seen the name Smith I would have given up right then and there.
Captivated from start to finish! From one family historian to another, thank you so much for this insightful video. I really must make a video about about how I found my grandmother (an illegitimate war baby)'s biological father. However, she is still alive, so it still feels a little "raw".
Wow! That is a story I’d love to hear Matthew. Maybe someday.
Thanks for the feedback.
Mr. Marsh, be very happy who you are. Family is not only blood it is culture and relationship. So your grandfather was a Smith instead of a Marsh. You were very fortunate that you had such a wonderful relationship with Ralph. What a person lives is what truly makes he/she who they are. It's not just about your name.
I enjoyed your story because I love history and the perseverance you took involving yourself further in the various DNA tests to gain information was above and beyond what the average person would do to gain information about their family history. You answered yourself you are a Marsh and always will be one but you just have the mystery and knowledge of knowing the real information of yourself and family but doesn’t change who you are as a person and how you were reared the determination that you have you got from your parents. You would be a great teacher or professor with your determination for your students to succeed.
Thanks for the kind words Susie!
Thorough sleuthing, persuasive evidence and a fascinating family story. Thank you for sharing your process.
Thank you Ade. :)
Absolutely fascinating. Thank you for the careful research and artful presentation. I don't usually watch U-tubes that are so long, but I simply could not stop!
I'm glad you liked it Katie!
Wonderfully researched and presented. You are a Marsh . It's so interesting the lives and choices of our ancestors. Thank you for the share.
As a Smith born female, I am impressed. Working with the surname Smith is a challenge, at best. It is even harder in the deep south where there are very few infant baptismal records. Most are Baptists, who do not christen their children. This story was fascinating.
Thanks for the note Kitty. I love southern genealogy.
What a journey! I appreciate your courage in sharing, your clarity in the research, and your love and respect for everyone in the process.
Fascinating! I loved hearing how you investigated step by step, and uncovered a totally plausible truth! Thank you for sharing your story
Beautifully told with honesty, compassion and understanding.. Excellent research on your part! Thank you so very much for sharing your journey with us!
Thank you for the kind word!
Thank you for sharing this. I have been researching my family history for many years now and have also found DNA to be a useful tool for confirmation. Your story is fascinating and your presentation excellent. I learned alot. Thanks again.
Excellent story. Your voice is so calm and pleasant!!!
Thanks Russ, I enjoyed this video very much.
I have very recently discovered that the grandad my brother and I knew and loved wasn't our biological grandfather! It's been quite a shock.
I had worked on the Pallister family line for years and had it back to 1540 and had uncovered several interesting stories and have been in touch with and met up with many people I believed to have been cousins, many of which are in my 'Tangential Cousins' Facebook group. I even went on holiday this year to meet up with one of them.
So now the search in on to discover who my dad's birth father/parents were and I'm currently awaiting a Y-111 kit for my brother and I've also ordered two 23andMe autosomal kits for both of us since we can't upload our Ancestry data there.
The most difficult part of this for me is how long it may take to find the answers to this conundrum so I definitely need to learn to be more patient!
I'm very glad I found your video.
The adventure begins. Please keep me updated!
Your story was so well laid out and interesting. I too found a family mystery. My grandmother's father was not her biological father. We've figured out our genetic mystery but it hasn't changed who we are in any way.
This is extremely interesting! Thank you for walking us through this!
Wow! You've had quite a revelation! You're presentation was wonderful.
Thanks Francine.
Thank you Russ. I really enjoyed the video and could have listened to you for another couple of hours. I loved how you provided the step by step process you used to rule out possibilities and come to a conclusion based on solid evidence. Fascinating.
Thank you JoAnne.
What a journey. Enjoyed listening to it. Helps others in directions to attempt through dna. Congratulations on finding an answer. You are quite a sleuth!
Valarie, my grandmother, Ralph's wife, is a Garlick. Maybe we're related?
Long story short... I just found out through my brother's DNA testing and comparing it to my dad's brother's DNA results, that there is a big question mark with my dad's parents and who they really are for my dad only. Haplogroups are different for my uncle and brother. I am devastated and never questioned it before in all these years. Just like you going back with your Marsh relatives and finding out differently. You never gave up. I am so impressed with your journey of finding out the truth and I will keep researching until I find out the truth I need to know. Thank you so much for sharing your thorough conclusions. It's nice to know that your wife was along with you in the journey. Wish me luck. I'm going to need it after I get over the shock of now knowing my dad's surname (and me and my brother) is not our correct surname.
Kathleen,
Your story is even closer to home than mine. I wish you the best in working through it and hope you find answers and healing.
It is distressing when you find out your surname is not biologically real. It's hard to be angry at deceased relatives you never knew. So many unanswered questions. As a female I suppose it isn't a huge deal bc our surnames change with marriage, but all my brothers and nephews have a surname that doesn't actually belong to them. For my family, the true biological ancestor was very near and easy to locate. Good luck in your search Kathleen.
Maisie Ravier I reluctantly changed my name to his when I married my husband in the 60s. I didn't want to for 2 reasons. I didn't want to lose my identity (that's how I thought in the 60s) and my groom had a not so nice surname that I didn't like (and people would make fun of). Well, I divorced the hubs and took back my maiden name and I love my maiden name, so it is important to me. The other thing that upsets me is that my grandfather that I've known, is a loving and well respected man. I mourn the loss of him, in a sense. It will take time, I think. I hope. Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated.
Russ Marsh Thank you so much Russ. I appreciate your kind words.
Just Pleies Oh, of course. I pray you will find answers and some peace in what you do find. There are a couple of FB groups you might want to join and see if you find some ideas and help there. One that's really great is DNA Detectives. A really great group of people that are all in the same boat and help each other through each step of what's needed to be done. Good luck to you on this journey. It's going to take time and we'll have to be patience, but I believe we both will be able to get through it all and be at peace with the outcome.
Wow! You did a great job. I had to listen to the whole thing. I did not know some of the tests were available! Good detective work!
Bill Marsh resembles my great uncle, John Smith, and my Grandfather, Edward Smith, from PA.
great detective work. very entertaining. Good luck on getting past your Marsh brick wall.
My husband is 5'8 and I am 5'4. Our sons are both over 6'2 and our daughter is 5'8. There are a couple of tall people on both sides of my family but average 5'11 and under on my husbands side. My grandfather was 6'5.
You gotta love a good ‘wild west’ story. I have a few in my line also. How many of us get to share two or more great families. Loved this!
Your story just reinforces something my husband says on a regular basis - be careful what you ask for! Nowhere is this more true than in digging for answers in genealogy. And guess what? You don't even have to do DNA to find some of the surprises that are waiting for you. In my own research into my mother's family I discovered that her family name would originally have been Delancy rather than Reed. This was because her great-grandfather (surname Delancy) turned out to be a bigamist, who had simply walked away from his first wife and children without bothering to go through a legal divorce, therefore making the children of his second marriage illegitimate. Because that marriage was null and void, the children's names would have reverted to Berry, their mother's surname before the marriage. A family hero stepped in in the form of Mr. Reed, marrying her and adopting all the children. Needless to say, some family members found this information terribly shocking and scandalous. Heaven only knows what we would find if we ran the DNA.
Wow. It seems we're all in the same scandalous boat. In one fashion or another. :)
@@rjmjrjm Yeah, my cousins husband found out his Y line was different than expected...turned out his gramma had "supplemented" the family income.
You can go back a lot farther than I can. Being a female I have no way of telling who my father's grandfsthers were.
My brother has used his dna, but hasn't gotten very far.
Thank you for your research and information.
Excellent. A lot of good work, and a presentation style to match. Thanks for posting. Very valuable for me personally.
Really appreciate the careful and thorough research and your openess is sharing this remarkable journey. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing your story - DNA is a great enabler BUT it is so true you have to be prepared for what it reveals whatever that may be!
Fascinating, thank you for explaining so well. I have been doing my family tree this last 6-7 years, the first few years were spent doing the tree, 2-3 years ago I had a DNA test on Ancestry, and had to restart at least a quarter of the tree, when it became clear that I was not in fact dna related to someone who I believed was part of my direct line of descent. I had to do similar detective work in order to figure it all out.
I think a great many people would get such surprises if they were to start their genealogy, it also surprised me that in the 1600's-1800's, it was very common that very young girls, married very old men.
This is an amazing story of outstanding research. It's like the plot of a mystery novel. Your presentation was especially interesting to me because my Y-chromosome is also J-M172, and like you, I always assumed my paternal line would be pure European since my ancestors came to America from Germany.
Than you Gary. It’s interesting to imagine how our ancient J2 ancestors migrated across Europe. Maybe someday we’ll know more about them as a people.
Great story!!, thanks for sharing, my husbands family did it the hard way but they eventually found the answer that their Grandfather at 15 got a 21 year old girl pregnant and because of his age it was not recorded, they found a family member who lived in Newfoundland who remembered the story.
Was their grandfather still living? I assume not. At any rate, an amazing discovery.
Wow! Talk about timelines that wouldn't make sense.
Very interesting! Like the old pics and info on Boise too!
Great story teller. Great story. If your not a writer, you should be. Your presentation was simple and direct. A real fascinating tale. Good luck to you. My father is a mystery. I’m taking the Ancestry Test in January 2021.
Thank you Jack. I hope you solve your "father mystery" and all ends happy.
Thank you. Your story is so interesting , and it provided such a clear idea of how you reasoned from the DNA evidence and used it in conjunction with other evidence!
This is extremely well done. I enjoyed it!
Fascinating! I've done some research to unlock the real name and, therefore, ancestors of my husband's great-grandfather. (There was a family story that the name had been changed, but not which generation that happened.)The fact that my husband's surname follows this line is important. Some folks thought that there was no reason for me to be so interested, but it has been my surname for almost fifty years. I would never have found it without dna. If I had seen your video first, it probably wouldn't have taken me so long.
Congrats Penny. Hope you enjoyed the journey!
What an absolutely fascinating story. Thank you so much for sharing it.
Love this! Wow. You were truly dedicated to time consuming research, and clearly it paid off. I much admire your hard work!
Thank you, Russ. That was an excellent presentation, which I enjoyed very much. Really good investigative work.
8 yrs later...
this was awesome. I wonder why you did not approach your dad to take this test? This would further solidify your conclusions. Although I do understand why you would not want to upend your dad's world with these revelations!
Wow! You were very thorough in your search. Very interesting to the end of the video. Thank you for caring that much.
Thank you Pamela!
@@rjmjrjm You are most welcome! God's blessings be to you and yours.
Excellent video! Very methodical and it is obvious you spent alot of time working through this Brick Wall. Great Job!!
Thank you Mysti. I did spend a lot of time. But I enjoyed every minute of it. :)
DNA is the way forward in Ancestry. Paper trail doesn’t mean much.
I’m prepared for the surprises.
Excellent presentation and research.
Will take on board your methodology.
You're wrong about that. The paper trail, when it exists, is a lot more precise than a DNA test. The DNA test is really only useful for verifying the paper trail and for filling in the gaps when the paper trail does not exist or is in error.
Very interesting story and well compiled explanation of your findings. Thanks for sharing!
Amazing! I don't know how you found all this information, but it is amazing!! This would be great to document all your info and make it a documentary...I'm anxious for an update...
And this is why I love geneology! Thanks for your story
Which y dna test did you do? I understand that there are three different levels of Y DNA.
Shirley,
I initially tested YDNA 37 markers at familytreedna.com. Then I upgraded to 67 markers. And finally 111 markers. They only have 1 more upgrade called the BigY 500. Interestingly, it costs > $500 and I'm not motivated to pay for it. It also wouldn't tell me anything new because it's only useful if other matches have paid for it.
That was pretty interesting. Thanks. The sounds at the end were creeping me out. I had to check the house. 😄
I wonder why old vintage photos show people with such somber expressions. It was like no one was very happy. This is such a cool story. Pearl deserves a book written about her life and a movie!
I agree about the movie. Couple of things I didn't discuss in the youtube... She and her sister were riding horses and ran into Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce tribe who was on the "war path" trying to preserve his people's lands against European settlers. Her story says that he was polite and told them to take cover so they would not be harmed. Also, her father, Hyrum Maynard was accused and tried for involvement in the Snake River Massacre. Three men, not including her father, went down on to the Snake River an killed an unknown number of Chinese men who were panning for gold. Historians believe the killed as many as 30 men and ran off with a very significant amount of gold. Hyrum Maynard was accused of being a "lookout" but was found not guilty by a jury of his peers. Pearl maintained that her father was innocent.
Photography equipment back then was very very different from what we have today, much much slower to process and so the subject/s had to be very careful not to move or it would blur the result and they'd need to start over again - and it was not cheap.
Judith Harper wow how in the world did they ever photograph children!
BeatlesFanSonia
Most people had bad teeth back in the day, so tried not to smile.
@@BeatlesFanSonia I remember having my photograph taken and have the actual photographs. I remember the photographer telling me not to move or smile. I am 82 years old.
I had a great aunt Pearl (Abbott) who I believed through my ancestry tree was married to a gentleman named “Doc” Maynard when she was a young girl. It’s 12:45 in the morning and I hear you talk about Pearl Maynard and I can’t believe my ears. But then the people you describe as her parents are not my ancestors Melvin M Abbott and Matilda (Keathley) Abbott so it’s not the same Pearl but it truly caught my attention. Lol Good luck in your search, I have hit a roadblock searching for my great grandfather Melvin M Abbott who had the daughter Pearl who I believed was married to Doc Maynard. My roadblock brought me to your podcast.
Good luck Donnette! Don't give up :)
Chief Joseph was running with his tribe to get to Canada.(to freedom).They could go no further, and stopped.He said,"I will fight no more,forever."
An epic tragedy. And the quote is so raw, so vulnerable.
Your daughter commented on another video and that brought me here
Thank you particularly for the DNA details. The surprises and dead ends sometimes are there for a reason, as we learn. It was very enlightening to listen to.
Wow! Good detective work.
Brilliant work. Very impressed
Clearly there was a disruption in the line, so to speak.
As for the Middle Eastern ancestry, it occurs with nesrky everyone who is western European, if you go back far enough on Y dna. Me, my male relatives, Thomas Jefferson etc etc. Because that's the way we all came into Europe from Africa. Nothing unusual. Doesn't mean you aren't European.
I'm so impressed by your story and knowledge.
Thank you. :)
Congrats Papa on getting more than 100k views 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
I wonder if adding some adds to your video would get the RUclips algorithm to share this more ....
Thank you sweetheart!
Truly excellent research. Thank-you. She was strong enough to choose for happiness and love in unconducive circumstances. And it is interesting that the March couple finally divorced at the time your ancestor's height would have shot up so far beyond Marsh norms.
Thanks for the journey! You were so lucky that you had all those very close Y-DNA matches that could give you the name. My husband's 2x-great-grandfather is unknown (his 2x-grandma was unmarried) so he took a Y-DNA test to see if the results might point him to a name or two. Unfortunately, he has *no* close Y-DNA matches at all, so it's led us nowhere. We can only wait.
I did wonder in your story ... your conclusion that Pearl had an affair with Herschel means that Pearl's dad Hiram married Herschel's ex-wife around the same time that grandfather was born. In a comment I see you said that Herschel had a son about 8 years old at the time. So Hiram's stepson was also the half-brother of Hiram's grandson. Whew! That gets tangled quickly. I wonder how Herschel's ex-wife got together with Hiram in the first place? Were there any family stories about that?
We're in the same place on my wife's line. Very frustrating. Best of luck Brenda!
Impressive detective work. It must have been rewarding to solve this puzzle.
It was Shelley. I don’t know what drove me but I really wanted answers. The tougher the puzzle the greater the reward (or exasperation). 🤪
Captivating. Thank you for sharing your story.
Very interesting! I'm currently in the middle of a similar saga in trying to determine the paternity of my male-line great-grandfather. Unlike your story, however, it was always known that my great-grandfather was born out of wedlock. Similarly, though, there was a long-believed myth as to who his biological father was until DNA disproved it. Anyway, I hope to eventually track down the "culprit" as you did. :-) Thanks!
Good luck with your search John. It will be a journey. I hope we can link up in the future to discuss your progress.
Absolutely the best I’ve watched in a long time. Well done!
Thanks for watching Crystal!
There was a big stigma 100 years plus back of having a bastard child. Often it happened back then if a daughter got pregnant she and the mother would go away to "visit an aunt." When they returned the child was passed off as a menopause baby.
so do you think maybe your g great grandfather is you gg grandfather and perhaps his daughter had a child out of wed lock that he and her mother claimed their child as theirs to keep away the stigma of being a bastard. I think one of your "aunts" had a relationship with a Smith.
Or perhaps that couple you are referring to adopted her brother's child. but just because her maiden name was Smith means nothing. That is a very common name.
Here is my family story. My grandmother tended to not carry her babies full term. At Christmas time 1919 she had already lost 3 children born as either preemies who did not make it or miscarriages. Two died before my grandfather went to war (WWI) and the last was a very recent miscarriage after he came home. She was in a train station one day while out Christmas shopping; to use the bathroom; that was the only public bathroom around. She met a woman with a baby, waiting for a train. She got to talking to her as she ooed and awed over the baby, it turned out this woman had gotten PG right before her husband returned from war, the child was obviously not his. So she told him her grandmother was ill and she had to go help her. She was gone for several months, the baby was by then about 2-3 months old and she was returning home. She told my grandmother she intended to leave the baby in the station but she wanted her to have him as she knew she would take good care of him. So my grandmother took him home. My grandfather first thought she had lost her mind, but she finally convinced him of what happened. They were allowed to adopt him, but he only lived a few months, died at 6-7 months. The doctor said from malnutrition during pregnancy. Later my grandmother had 7 more children. All born at 7 months or less. Five of them lived to adulthood including my mother.
Excellent research. I learned some new methods. Thank you.
My son is 6'4, and his father was 5'11", and I am 5'4". My husband's lineage is Belarusian and Ukrainian, and I am Portuguese and Spaniard. I have a daughter too, with same husband, and she's 5'5".
Thank you for sharing your story. I have a similar path I am following right now and this is very helpful.
Excellent!! Perfectly presented. What research! Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Viewed this on 08.16.2020. Very nice presentation from a determined researcher. Curious to know how long you investigated before putting this together. Fascinating story! And seven brothers!
This was amazing. I also got to a dead end on my family tree. I just order my dna test. I hope I can untangle mine. I do suspect my grandmother was a illegitimate child.
Good luck Adriana! It should be an adventure.
Wow, your great grandfather's hail from the same territory, as my maternal Grandmothers family. Can not remember if I'd heard your name, there was such large families, back then... love hearing these stories!
Thanks for commenting Claire.
This was so fascinating! Thanks for sharing.
Wow Russ, you are quite the researcher and intellect. What a great story. When I heard that Bill threatened the life of Herschel in 1906 I was thinking Bingo, we definitely know why!! Most likely "stay away from my wife or else" Herschel really must have been obsessed with Pearl as after that threat two years later RALPH was born! Did I get all that right?
You got it right. I often wonder about the heartache that must have burdened all 3 of them. In some fashion it carried though to my grandfather as he was a boy when they divorced and he was traumatized by it
Hi Russ Marsh, I did a search on your 2nd great grandfather who I am related too. James’ father according to the records I looked at is Samuel Marsh
Also related to Herschel Smith
Love your pictures, all the old time stuff.
I was entranced. I found something similar in our family. ❤
Fascinating! Good detective work.
Wonderful story! Thanks very much.
All this DNA stuff is busting out a lot of indescressions back in the day.
There is an argument for leaving things well enough alone. It seems unfair to those passed on to dredge their dirty laundry. It is also a little disconcerting for living family members. In my family for example, my dad and his siblings have chosen to let it lie because it suggests that the grandfather they loved is not their grandfather genetically speaking. And their feelings matter which is my chief concern in perpetuating this story.
However, the flip side is that it has some relevance to the living, though I have struggled to articulate what that might be.
Russ Marsh it doesn't take DNA to make a father. A father is the guy who patch up wounds and comforted the nightmares.
You ain't just whistling Dixie. My view on this, as a somewhat traumatized (lol) person by the results of DNA tests is that there is nothing more important than the truth. The Bible says the truth will set your free. This is part of my life story. People don't think about the consequences of their actions having a ripple effect in the lives of many descendants. I personally don't feel it is unfair to drudge up their indiscretions. They have caused a world of hurt for many and if alive I'd be at their door demanding answers.I just hold to the truth being more important than anyone's feelings. Facts are facts and we just have to come to terms with them. Denial helps no one.
I don't think I would be knocking on anyone's door, but after doing my test and seeing that I had a different father than I thought and also half-siblings, the thing I regret the most is that if my paternity had been known, I possibly could have met grandparents and aunts that were still living in the area where I grew up (like, a few miles away). But now, they have all passed, a couple pretty recently.
Great story! And very well presented. I am curious what your father thinks of your discovery. Also Kutis on the photographs to enhance the storytelling. I've been doing genealogy for almost 30 years now but I have yet to start the DNA process
Thanks for the note. This issue is sensitive to my father and his siblings. The older siblings remember their grandfather and are saddened at the suggestion that he is not their biological grandfather. It's also sensitive because it means their own father went to his grave not knowing that his father wasn't his father.
It's a bit of a contradiction when I say that I am sensitive to their concerns when I have published the story on youtube. I am telling myself that they're not youtube savvy and are not likely aware that I've done this. I hope I'm right because I care about them.
I loved watching and listening to this
That sounds like a fascinating game of hoosier daddy.
That is such an interesting story. I have a similar issue in my Y test. I have first second and third cousins that are in my dna matches but my Y surname comes back Mashburn and includes Marsh. I am thinking my fourth great grandfather was fathered by a Mashburn and raised a Craven. Thanks for the story.
Good story. My mom and I are in a similar search for a great grandfather.
Best of luck. Be tenacious :)