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No More Lithium! NEW Sodium-Ion Battery To BEGIN Mass Production
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- Опубликовано: 7 дек 2022
- No More Lithium! NEW Sodium-Ion Battery To BEGIN Mass Production
The world's biggest battery maker, CATL of China, just revealed a sodium ion battery that challenges existing lithium-ion technology for energy density and longevity and which could genuinely revolutionize the future of energy storage.
See also The Latest Breakthrough on Silicone Anode Batteries • How Will The Latest Si...
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I’ll listen when they are actually available…
Already in production by BYD
@JeffP still don't see them available
Agree, too many "game changing" new battery news but yet i see none that is "available" in daily life use.
@@ElSarcastro exactly lol. ping me in 10 years, maybe then there might be a experiment that is buyable by the consumer or even used by anyone at all.
@@ElSarcastro HiNa Battery Fuyang
The overall thing I find encouraging is that with so much money to be made, tons of money is being poured into battery R&D. That's leading to many discoveries and breakthroughs in general. Whether any individual solution ends up being widely adopted isn't so much the issue, as long as batteries are getting cheaper, production is growing, and they're getting more environmentally friendly to produce.
And if we're lucky, the next game-changing battery technology won't be discovered by a company who stands to make more money by suppressing and fighting it.
None of these things are happening. They are more expensive and not eco-friendly .
@@billrehm3590 probably only 1/100 breakthroughs will make it to market. The thing is, we don't know which one. And it all increases out knowledge in general. Someone may come up with a technique to use platiumium as a cathode, which is rediculous impractical, but that technique sparks someone else to come up with a etter way to make a lithium battery that makes it to market.
@@stickyfox Don't worry, the US is far behind in battery technologies.
@@blam1328 compared to whom, china?
I made salt cells decades ago with a kid's science book. A flat piece of zinc, paper towel soaked in salt water, and copper sheet wrapped around the whole thing. The copper had a small hole in it to replenish water as it dried out.
I am surprised to learn that 75% capacity was insufficient for the tradeoff of rare materials. My question is: how are the low-end thermal operating ranges?
Other problems are cyclability and compatibility with a graphite anode.
Lithium is one the most common elements on the planet...
@@eclecticgamer5144 33rd most common, but now that I see how it's extracted, I see your point. It isn't rare at all and is typically harvested from seawater. Now this makes a lot more sense.
@@eclecticgamer5144 - Lithium isn't that common, and it's concentrated in... geopolitically inconvenient regions.
Yeah, 75% is higher than I thought it would be given its lack of use. Weight is an issue for things like EVs, but the lower cost makes it seem pretty obvious as a primary use case for things like grid storage plants.
I wonder if they’d be able to source the salt from the ocean? If so, maybe it could be a by product of desalination for drinking water. Maybe then it’d be cost affective for both desalination for drinking water and the sodium batteries.
You'd Need to wash and purify the salt byproduct a lot, too much random stuff in seawater. Better off mining it.
Excellent idea!!! 👏
@@YouCanHasAccount If you mine it in the form of rock salt you have the same issue. The most common compound on earth is sodium chloride. Chlorine is widely used in industry so a useful byproduct
@@YouCanHasAccount No its not better to put the brine back into the ocean as its far denser than sea water so it sinks to the bottom and kills all the marine life.
@@deanrolph6912 I don't think you know anything about chemistry or physics, based upon this ridiculous response.
I feel like this is more of an alternative than a replacement. Lithium may become a premium battery and sodium may become the common battery when prices come down. Which would be a good thing
Not necessarily just cost.
If they're more durable to charging cycles and less sensitive to heat, it might be that they're vastly superior for grid redundancy, which would drive down demand and therefore cost of lithium.
Being 20% larger and heavier but much more durable to charging cycles at any temperature is actually a feature many would pay a premium for.
That's what they said about LED vs CFL lightbulbs, but then LED proved to be cheaper and more durable and the general public was all like "What have you done for me lately?" to CFL.
@@Dargonhuman I've had LED bulbs fail much sooner than CDL, but overall I still run them over CFL
Like me, a lot of people aren’t interested in owning a car powered by lithium. It costs us too much in carbon output. To keep coming up with more ways to pollute the planet is not going to work.
@@timmturner almost every led light bulb sold in America is made so that with enough heat they will fail because of small connections to leds
Anything that is cleaner to produce is a huge plus in my book. The fact that it is as good and cheaper is just icing on the cake.
This tech is ideal for PEV’s. Even if capacity is less than current L-ion batteries, the fast recharging ability would allow a rider to recharge in the time it takes to get a coffee. As long as there is access to the power grid you’d never have to be down more than a typical rest stop. I’d be willing to have a battery pack built to try this.
Better for gadgets and grid storage where weight isnt a premium. A larger intercallation matrix for the anode is needed, but the cathode material can be similar to existing lithium chemistry. One benifit is that sodium can use plain old iron oxide in place of the cobalt. Something with a aluminum ferroferricyanide cathode and a iron oxide ferriphospate anode will work nicely. 🤓❤
Weight might not even be an issue if electric cars were made to get people to work and back, and not 200 miles, or go 200 miles an hour... and if you didn't need an 8-core CPU and a 7" ultra-HD display to make phone calls.
Isn't it weird that no matter what energy storage we use, we always end up with the same battery capacity in our devices? Don't you feel like a laptop could run for 3 weeks if we wanted it to?
@@stickyfox you have a halfway decent point, however when it comes to mobiles batteries will self discharge, slapping a bigger battery on a less hungry device wouldn't necessarily increase the battery life proportionately (i.e. it may be more practical to scale performance to capacity). Another factor is that as battery energy density increases form factor tends to decrease, those older devices may have had a similar battery life, but with far less performance and far more bulk/heft.
As for cars you're absolutely right, but on that token you may as well be arguing for bikes (it comes down to an issue of consumer preference).
@@xxportalxx. I think manufacturers are afraid nobody would be interested in a $20,000 EV that had a 25-50 mile upgradable battery, in spite of the number of people who live less than 10 miles from work and get free charging as an employment benefit.
We can put off developing the massive battery capacities we dream of and satisfy the current demand using less material; and then in the meantime while we improve the tech the consumers who want to go 200 miles can slap a full-size battery in their car and enjoy a drive across the state.
That, or they would prioritize selling the big battery as a "pay to unlock" premium feature, and aren't on board with a customer getting what they want and no more. We're living in a weird time.. it'll be interesting to watch.
@@stickyfox well most ev's made today aren't designed to ever have the battery replaced, the new teslas integrate them into the frame even! They're designed to last the life of the vehicle. So you'd need a pretty big redesign of the ev concept as well. Downside of this is that making them replaceable would make the vehicle less spacious and heavier. Tradeoffs I suppose.
Personally I'd never purchase such a vehicle, or an ev in general honestly, but that's bc my state is very large and not very dense, I live pretty close to work relative to my states avg and it's a 20mi commute, beyond that seeing an ev charge port is like seeing an elephant they're so rare here. Public transport is also essentially nonexistent (including ride sharing apps for most of the state).
You dont even know what your on about stop copying shit from google
I've heard of tons of 'revolutionary' new batteries, all I can do is wish them luck
Me too, I'll believe it when I see it.
At this point I click on the video for the comment section.
It's just companies trying to get investors and bost their stock value,
@@hull4bal00 they wouldn't do that sort of thing in China... surely. 😁
@@timhinchcliffe5372 you're not a Chinese, you know nothing about China.
This video is ten times longer than it needed to be! Best of luck!
That's practically every RUclips video. All of them are out for views and the longer the videos the more money they can make.
This video should have been 1 minute video. AHHHH, now i see why RUclips Shorts are becoming popular. No BS straight to the point.
The primary issue with Sodium-Ion battery had been cyclelife and lower specific energy when compared to Li-Ion batteries. And while some progress are being made on Sodium-Ion batteries, IMO, they still have a long ways to go before they're ready for high volume manufacturing.
The sodium batteries from the 1800s gave studebaker 600 miles per charge when they created the first electric vehicle.
The Madras iit already in research to improve this.
@@rajadurai8067 There is tremendous amounts of research on pretty much anything relating to higher energy density battery techs.
But research doesn't mean there will be positive results, as most research ends up being dead-ends.
For the next 5 years, the most likely winner will be solid-state Li-Ion batteries, with many companies pouring billions into R&D, as they're sampling SSB's with 2-3X the energy density of the best of today's Li-Ion batteries, with significantly better charge/discharge rates and far lower fire risks.
in 2050 we know who won, if not happen same that early 1900
@@smithshaun33 Sodium ion batteries will only be feasible if the sodium is made from Unicorn urine. Just another pipe dream from people who don't know anything about electricity or engineering.
I truly hope it all works, it's very exciting . Can't wait to try the new batteries in flash lights and small electronics.
Yeah….I was already checking AliExpress, but no dice 😂
Don't hold your breath.
Even if they are heavier, especially in Midwest and countryside, the batteries could be stored in the basement or in garage, and the solar energy could be used to charge them. Even if there are three times the bulky, if they're cheap to produce, and last long, they are worth and investment for the greener and a cheaper world.
Yeah but their primary use would be to be stationary. And most people don't think "I need a battery made of this" they think "I need a battery, lemme ask my wallet for recommendations"
Greener? You have to mine sodium (Na) it’s a volatile metal when introduced to water, it is not salt they are using (NaCl sodium chloride)
Imagine that change comes when costs get to high or when people want to keep costs low
me: "my phone is dead and this salad lacks salt"
CATL: "say no more"
that article you showed with Tesla was about a totally different chemistry. It's about their own LFP cells (lithium iron phosphate)
I was going to say that too, and noticed this, we need some more up to date information.
I think it would be in the best interest of the electric vehicle industry to first figure out how they are going to meet the increased demand in electricity to charge their vehicles, because it won't come from wind or solar or hydro-electric sources. If you can't charge them, they won't run.
No way to charge them all, no range when it is charged. Our future is dismal as long as we keep living this lie.
If the main drawback is the KWH/KG then why don't we use them in areas where the weight and space is much less of a concern EG: The Tesla Wall? If lithium is lighter and stores more potential per KG then it'd make sense for it to be used for portable systems in which weight is crucial.
Aircraft need a really good power/weight ratio to be viable so the fuel that is used is made with that in mind, cars need a decent power/weight ratio so the fuel or batteries used have to keep that in mind, your house doesn't often move.
I know that in some areas of the world we use hydro potential energy generators that pump water up high for storage and then release it when needed. This system is in no way portable and it's not meant to be. Things like the Tesla Wall as well as other areas of local power storage don't need to have lithium and in some ways it could be seen as a waste of resources
Agreed. Given the otherwise similar specs of the two chemistries, I care about kWh/$, not weight. Give me SLA weight if you give it to me with LiFeSO4 characteristics and lots of safe storage.
Battery Technology arose from the express purpose of energy storage for hand-held consumer electronics. maximizing battery life, size and weight against the competition was critical in that space. No one wanted to eat R&D costs of new Battery tech.
Only recently were Lit-Ion batteries pressganged into larger scale fixed Battery installations and for vehicles. it was proven, available tech, but never intended or developed for that purpose. There was also a powerful lobbies in fuel and industry hampering development in renewables and Batteries for their own interest. or maybe no-one saw a Market worth conquering. Now all of the sudden everyone invests into Energie Storage Technologies and developments are fast. that Only shows how many low hanging fruit were ignored for so long.
Weight and mass can probably be used interchangeably in certain situations, but in educational videos, covering topics involving chemistry, physics etc mass and weight should be used correctly. In many educational videos it can be an opportunity to enlighten many people , as there are plenty of other words with the same lack of understanding
@notfiveo I need supplementary lithium.
It would lose some its educational value if they used mass instead of weight, because normal people use the term 'weight' for how heavy something is.
It's debatable whether this a chemistry/physics video or just an accessible tech video
For electric trucks where an extra 500-1000 pounds wouldn't make a difference, this would be a good solution especially if they made the price cheap enough that no one would care if it's heavier. The problem is the lack of cheap batteries for the end user except in the used cell market. For a house battery who cares if it weighs 1500 pounds if it can store 100kw in addition without any risk of fires. For many homes that could be between a week and a month without power during a blackout depending on how you manage and the weather.
If you are talking about Semi trucks, they can only be about 80-87k pounds and 1000 pounds less weight for hauling is arguably a big deal.
lol, this is the metal sodium Na NOT salt NaCl sodium chloride. And it has an exothermic reaction with water so yes it can creat a fire and explode as well.
Looking forward to this. I want to store my solar energy and this seems perfect as I don't care about weight and dimensions in this instance. If it's cheaper than Li, count me in!
Same
Exactly, who cares if the sodium ion battery weighs 30% more than lithium ion batteries but are 40% cheaper if you already have the space at home to store it.If you spent $10000 on lithium batteries for your home solar system you would want to switch to sodium ion batteries if the cost is only $6000 with similar shelf life!.
A couple of startups in the US are underway as well. I hope they do not overlook the home backup energy market. Safe inexpensive home energy storage for back up is a pretty big market.
And be able to store what you produce from your solar. Many electric companies (in NJ) don’t want you have too big a solar array because then you’re considered an energy producer and they don’t want to have to pay you back too many credits at a premium later. So having the ability to store some of your production at home would be nice.
"Every ton of lithium extracted by hard rock mining results in the release of 15 tons of carbon dioxide."
_shows nuclear cooling towers releasing clouds of water vapor_
The only thing I can't decide on is whether this was intentionally misleading or just lazy.
Correction 2:20: It's the other way around, lithium moves from the graphite anode to the cathode during discharge
I remember making a saltwater battery in the 80's separated by paper washers in elementary school. Fun experiment, fun times.
The video at 2:44 is the building of hybrid Li, Na pack. Allowing car manufacturers to tune cost vs size and weight. This will allow Car companies to make a cheaper option with less range of the same car cheaply since the battery packs would just differ in weight and energy storage. if you freeze the video you can see the blue packs are labeled Lithium-ion and the silver ones Sodium-ion
Congratulations on being the 1000th youtube video on a battery-breakthrough that's not happening.
No wonder with a negative anode and a positive kathode!
@@janhemmer8181 That sounds strange, but is the case in most literature.
@@andreaskraut6960 Only when you Google it.
50% correct and 50 % wrong.
@@andreaskraut6960 😂😂😂
Sorry fossil fuel lover, BYD done already.
I went out to buy some sodium-ion batteries just the other day. Shockingly, I couldn't find any...
A year later, and...
All we get is the EV industry telling us new battery technology will make the adoption of EVs more simple and widespread, yet none of these technologies have replaced lithium cells...
Dream on...
Call me again when they are actually available to buy. There've been way to many miracle battery announcements over the last decades, which never came true.
why miracle?? it is science
Yes it's true, they only want sponsors for that
@@StagnantMizu The "miracle" is when the pros vs cons for new tech or new formulations favors the pros in a significant enough manner. If you follow state of the art advances in fusion tech, you will be jaded by the latest "miracles" that are indeed advances but are mere baby steps when good sized hops are needed. Commercial Fusion is always said to be 20 years away but as seen so many times, that estimate is continually reset as the deadline approaches .. and passes
There is no "miracle" here. Na-ion technology works on the same principles as Li-ion. The two elements have the same structure and chemical properties. It was just never cost-effective to develop Na-ion until the demand for lithium went through the roof.
Lol ppl take the word "miracle" seriously
Sounds great! I should be able to get my hands on one of them in about 10-20 years.
Innit
ive legit been hearing about this since my environmental geoscience class in high school 15 years ago, will it ever come out... not until it works/ or they can make a boatload of money off the hype
Use lithium for electronics n cars. Sodium for community batteries for renewable intermittent power storage. If it’s cheaper and needs a market, that’s booming market now, especially in Australia.
And Sodium- Sulfur batteries with more energy density will be suitable for higher end customers and performance vehicles and application too! Sodium will be complementary to Li-Ion for a while, meanwhile they will replace traditional Li-ion in the long run for low and high end application for transport and grid storage. With Li-S i hope to be complementary too! This is good to alleviate Lithium Price pressure and to not be dependents on imports for specific production States.
If this solves the grid storage problem, then it's a *BIG* deal. I was recently looking at solar, and the batteries are so expensive that it really makes no sense (one of the big reasons for wanting it is to reduce grid reliance). But if home battery costs could be cut dramatically, then home solar starts to make economic sense. Other than batteries, it's already on par with grid power, so that's the game changer.
@@eventhisidistaken Yeah the great problem of renewables is that once you pass 50% energy generation by renewables you start getting diminishing returns unless you have very good grid energy storage
@@eventhisidistaken we have solar on the roof. No storage batteries yet. But the power bills are
@@nickiemcnichols5397 For me, part of the reason I would want solar is to have less dependence on the grid, so for me, the motivation is a lot less without storage. The amortized cost of solar was going to be more than my current power costs, so it didn't make sense without the grid independence aspect. That said, I had rooftop solar priced, but I have a lot of unused land, and so a small solar farm might make more sense in my case. I know that's a lot cheaper than rooftop.
@eventhisidistaken They need to get the cost/return to a level where it makes sense.
Most solar systems take at least 20 years of use to cover the cost, and they panels are only rated for 20 years, the batteries for storage are less, depending on type.
Portable solar systems for backup sitting idle most of the time are the only cost effective systems until they improve these.
i think i'l take this news with a big grain of salt
Good one 🧂
I wish new battery tech would happen, I've heard of so many different batteries it's just disappointing to see none of them being mass produced. I've heard of sulfur batteries, solid state batteries, graphene batteries ECT just adopt one already.
Lithium is still the best option. The others need technological advancements.
@@crisbowman gotta agree with you, we understand lithium Ion batteries far better than the rest of these options and we already have the economy of scale required to make them as cheap as possible.
Though i agree we need a new more environmentally friendly option, ultimately money will be the deciding factor in all of this.
Hydrogen(H) is the only element gives up electrons easier than Lithium(Li), All other things being equal, which they are not, no element on Earth is ever going to be better than Li. The thing is sodium(Na), is an alkiline metal closely related to Li so they are very close all things being equal. And therein lies the simple truth about the problem... So far, any development that makes a more viable Na battery, makes a better Li battery. Ya ever heard that before? They are lying to you.
They aren't looking for a better battery than Li, because every chemist knows that's probably impossible. There are very few trying to make better Li batteries, which would be the by far better thing for mankind but there's little money in it. What this has resulted in their being pretty much only two companies in the world, Tesla and CATL/BYD working on the problem that would do more for humanity, Wile everybody else on earth is desperately trying to invent a new battery technology that doesn't make better Lithium batteries too, and is lying about it.
If you have thought ahead a bit ahead you may now understand why we're still waiting on this magical battery? It's very possible, and maybe probable, that there will never be a better self-contained, chemical battery. Perhaps we have reached the point of perfection on batteries that the wheel enjoys.
There should be a ready marketplace for this new technology in fixed , land based energy storage where weight is of little importance . Greater resistance to heat and fire is also a plus .
I love how everyone is taking turns saying they found the "next big energy" thing but every single one of them have failed.
I'll only believe it after only after they come off the production line and have been in use. but being 20% less energy by weight so there will be cars with batteries that will be heavier so more dead weight you will be driving around. Which puts additional limits on the distance you can travel per Kwh.
That’s true. There are a lot of downsides too. Let’s hope they will find the best solution both for the environment and for the market. Thank you for watching!
Who says it's all about cars.
Cars are only a small part of the market share compared to global grid storage needing TWh.
Li-on batteries lose capacity to 70% in a year so Tesla have that disclaimer in the sales contract. 30% dead weight batteries after a year and continued decline until effectively useless in five years.
@@biomechanique6874 you're talking crap
@@jeffp3999 I have over 10 years experience with lithium ion and polymer batteries. Where do you get your authority to accuse others when you know jack sh!t about anything?
Even as it stands, slightly lower energy density vs having to put up with Lithium's random dendrite fires is a big win in my book.
We could also do without the slave labor that is being used to mine the materials for lithium batteries.
You think sodium won't exhibit similar behavior? LOL
I thought sodium formed dendrites faster in fewer charge cycles
@@kleetus92 It's...sodium. It simply won't result in a gout of flame when damaged like lithium-ion batteries do. That's just one reason why alternatives are so important.
Graphene-ion batteries as well as aluminium-ion batteries are just two more alternatives I know of that are being investigated. Just off the top of my head.
Have you ever dropped pure sodium in water? Try it sometime, just, do it from a distance, please, for safety sake.
A sodium battery??
That's very sweet news and not salty at all !!
Someone pointed out in another video that when someone talks about pollution or CO2 emissions, they tend to show nuclear cooling towers that are, in fact, just releasing steam. Now I can't un-see it.
CATL first put out a video about their Sodium Batteries over a year ago on their page. 🤔
Indeed! They announced their prototype over a year ago. This is an update regarding their plans to mass production. Source: www.caixinglobal.com/2022-10-25/catl-aims-to-mass-produce-sodium-ion-batteries-in-2023-101955814.html
@@EyeTech21 Plans to, or start of?
I am very cautious of these claims, with many, "Look at us! Production Soon(TM)!" marketing materials, yet no actual batteries in sight.
I really hope this battery type gains popularity. There isn't enough lithium in the world to replace every car with electric using current tech.
Who told you that nonsense?
If the price is a lot lower and the technology is proven, this is a game changer. Sodium is cheap, easily accessible and in abundance, which is great news from an environmental perspective.
2023 almost done and we still waiting.
0:40 One Lithium mine has the potential of contaminating 30 million gallons of water per year, If its running 24/7.
See also: The Latest Silicone Anode Batteries: ruclips.net/video/ts2vRBhj658/видео.html&pp=gAQB
It is unlikely that Li-Ion be replaced in all applications as far as there are plenty of applications out there that are quite sensitive to energy density and are looking for high capacity. However Sodium currently looks as having a good position to grab a significant share of the market.
Right now Li-ion might be replaced only in some cases, when weight isn't important, but price is. But main part of that project is really cool
Hard carbon anode could replace graphite for sodium ion battery.
Perfect for stationary batteries.
The world is going to need TWh of Grid Batteries
Jai Hinduja. HiNa is Hi Sodium.
And some people still believe electric is zero emissions
I find this exciting because some Aussie company is planning to rip up the landscape in my town in search of lithium, and also plans to threaten the water supply as well as its quality.
Ive been waiting on new types of batteries coming out for years now. Wonder when or if these will hit the market
Don't hold your breath. The periodic table of elements shows Lithium to be the penultimatebattery material, Only hydrogen gives up its electron more readily There is No substance. on earth better than Lithium at being a battery.
i love my lipo4s EVE cells so much juice available no more power bills and last for ever 15 years
@@twistedthrottle8513 Yea, it's good battery tech, not quite
as power dense as NMC, but a bit less finicky. You know what the primary difference between your LiFePo and a cell phone or Tesla battery is the cathode material, riight? The lithium is the same. Good battery management is the key. If a cell goes bad and isn't addressed the problem can cascade throughout the pack. One of the biggest issues seem to be the electronic components in the Battery Management System, they just don't seem to hold up. One failed transistor can find a battery not being charged properly, and eventually falling out of spec, and before you know it everythings gone tilt. If a temp sensor fails and the charger starts charging cold batteries the entire pack can be taken out in minutes. The bottom line is Lithium battery technology is not just set it and forget it. But people are. Which is a real problem when a 10-cent capacitor failure can eventually take down a 10k-dollar battery pack.
That being said, lithium is not the problem here it's the electrolyte or the construction of the cell for the anode or the cathode material. It's not Lithium. If you solve all of the construction, anode and cathode problems using sodium, then when you substitute lithium for the sodium the battery will be better.
While salt may not be the answer, the need for something new is pushing companies to evolve. Something greatly needed in our new era of electric everything.
or perhaps, we can revisit combustion fuel. We already have synthetic gasoline and diesel that burns much cleaner than their oil derived counterparts. Only issue thus far is that it was announced for the non-consumer market. Instead, since EVs are not affordable for everyone, we must ensure that we have affordable fuels for internal combustion engines while still developing electric to make it cheaper, more reliable, and safer instead of shoehorning EVs into the market. Consumers need synthetic fuels and for it to be cheap!
salt is sodium chloride. the battery just needs sodium from salt.
and its the answer for grid storage. storing electricity from solar or wind systems for later use. the extra weight is of no concern and the safety in not burning down your house is priority. for now we still need lithium for EVs for efficiency. otherwise the extra weight and lower energy density doesn't do EVs justice.
just taking lithium away from grid storage would ease the burden of the mines a fair amount.
i suppose smartphones and laptops could use sodium ion batteries as well. that's a huge market chunk there. its hard to completely pull away from the best energy dense batteries we have.
What do think lithium is mined as? ... A _salt!_
Elementary chemistry is a basic prerequisite for this kind of discussion.
@@anhedonianepiphany5588 What the heck was that comment supposed to mean??? I think common sense is more of a prerequisite...... Nice try tho.
@@madmike9398 You said it. That we have synthetic fuels, yet fossil fuel prices are thru the roof, just makes no sense. Well, it does, rich people staying rich....
Saw title and first thought this was about Salt Bae being released from prison following World Cup shenanigans 😂
As a Bolivian i can tell you they have found lithium residue in rural areas drinking water. The lack of regulation and long term thinking means we in trouble.
Bluetti had already demonstrated a prototype of their portable power station featuring Na-ion batteries during CES 2022.
Then released a Lithium Ion version because Li is better than Na.
@@mpirron1 liFePo. Lithium Iron Phosphate
@@bonedoc4556 yea, what about it?
@@bonedoc4556 it does make a damn good battery second place, but only by a nose. Still has the same downsides as other Li-Ion though.
Sodium battery was developed and patented in South Africa in 1978 by Dr Johan Coetzer (Zebra battery)
I would happily switch to these batteries, even if there was a longevity and/or charge time reduction, simply as I just really don't like using lithium, never have, but you can't avoid it nowadays!
Same here, but a lot of people simply don't care about other factors and only want the best performance, regardless of the consequences.
Lets hope they are much safer than tbe lithum batteries. Too many lithium fires.
One thing to think about is how these batteries react to DEW’s and EMP’s through 5/6g? We know they were highly reactive in Maui
Don't hold your breath! Sodium batteries have very low energy density when compared to other types. That means to achieve the same energy level as lithium batteries, Sodium batteries will need to be nearly twice as big and twice as heavy.
Well, Sodium is much more energetic than Lithium, oxidizes more readily, and can ignite more easily. Lithium can be in the open air (very dry air) while being prepared for battery manufacture. Sodium needs to be kept under an oil to prevent self oxidation.
These is a ABSOLUTELY AN EYE OPENER & KNOWLEDGE to carry on in our everyday lives. Will surely wait for this to be seen soon. Thanks EYETECH. Keep us posted VIDS like this.
they may not have quite as much power, but for small rechargeable items they would definitely be better because they would cut the cost to manufacture and recycle them.
Definitely a home based battery system needed now. US should do this.
I am worried about the slow development of efficient batteries. By now, we should have a 200AH battery weighing just 1 to 10kg
Thata not how science or development work. The laws of physics dont bend to the needs of the consumer. Everything has a trade off, reality is not Star Trek.
@@hannibalwantsahuggrande3433 You are right but we look stupid when we discover or invent a better and cheaper ways of doing the same thing after wasting energy and resources on the old method. Personally, I feel so stupid using such a bad method for long. Though, I know in science, one thing leads to another however, I think we have to be fast about perfection.
Did they mention charging cycle life? Would be curious how they compare to lithium if they don't run into lithium dendrite issues.
I'm sure you can just pop the battery open and cry into it and it'll be good as new.
@@huldu sodium metal, not sodium-chloride. If you cried into it you may lose your face
If it's cheaper, and the same to make, hard to see CATL letting someone else beat them to market. Might be a couple of years but that's perfectly reasonable in manufacturing timelines.
I'll go ahead and hold my breath until the industry actually produces these.
This is hardly anything new actually, but the manufacturing of these products is definitely a step up with better batteries, despite the challenges it posed on production. I guess we just have to see how it goes
But as the research is from China, I'll take it, with a grain of salt
Strange, I've seen other vids in which was explained that these sodium-ion batteries have far, far less energy density then lithium-ion, making them unsuitable for electric vehicles but much more practical for stationary energy storage....?
CTL is claiming 160 wh/kg, current li-ion range between 260-270 wh/kg so sodium-ion's would have around 60% energy density compared to li-ion.
Translation: your electric car now has a range of 350 km, with a sodium-ion battery that would be reduced to 210 km.
We currently have a problem with recycling modern batteries. This problem needs to be addressed, lead being heavy but highly recyclable
Who has? Here in Germany, every battery has to be recyclable by law and must not simply be thrown in the garbage. For example, every car battery is over 99% recyclable.
I see these batteries being useful for home energy storage. We need lighter batteries for EVs or those with an energy density similar to fossil fuel.
propably would be more beneficial to figure out a way to harness and reuse fossil fuels burning products while also making those engines a lot more efficient. We won't be able to match energy density of burning with batteries for hundreds of years if it's even possible to do so.
This looks like the game changer that we've been waiting for. This is the better solution for home power-walls and grid storage.
@@boblatkey7160 If others have failed, that doesn't make it impossible. The idea that you can't get sufficient current only means you have no idea how current works. You could use AA batteries to power a home if you use enough of them and properly design it.
@@eventhisidistaken Of course not, what makes it impossible is the fact that there's no solid element able to give up electronsas readily as Li, at least on earth there isnt.
Wake me up when they can mass manufacture these at an affordable cost... Which will probably be not in my lifetime.
Sounds good and that Na ion battery should be 10x cheaper than Lion !!
Cool video! Thank you for putting the time into researching and producing this. I really enjoyed it.
CATL is mass producing Na ion batteries but they have reported that the batteries can only function optimally at very cold temperature -20 degree C.
How much efficiency is lost at room temperature?
@@eventhisidistaken CATL did not specify so until we get real engineering data, most of the video are really just opinion based on incomplete facts. Below video provides a more technical analysis.
ruclips.net/video/Nqp3T-MLskw/видео.html
Lithium-ion batteries only function optimally at 15C to 35C, which is why they are problematic in winter. From my understanding, sodium-ion batteries can function from -20C to 60C. My understanding of the emphasis of the -20C from CATL is because that is a big industry problem they solve, I haven't seen anything that said there is a significant degradation at higher temperatures.
I'm pretty sure branch education animated this segment 3:30 in partnership with a university, Not CATL..
Wonderful news ! Sodium ion batteries are a perfect solution to expensive lithium. I can't wait to get an EV with these new batteries aboard.
It’s Sodium the Metal Na not NaCl salt which is sodium chloride! If it gets wet, your car or hole will be one big fireball!
Right now what we really need is some extremely cheap batteries, even if weight or power density is bad.
Once you can store a huge amount of energy for cheap, lots of options start to open up.
Current electric grid wont be able to handle the demand if the current EV adoption continues. But if you can have a huge battery for little money, investing in solar starts to make more sense.
What are you talking about? The weight and power density of batteries is already really bad.
Simple battery with basic materials for cheap? No matter on weight on density and weight ? Like Lead-Acid batteries ? So that is already there, for a very long time :)
Lead-acid is a proven and reliable technology for stationary applications.
@@MichaeljRichter indeed and what can be more environmentally friendly than lead and acid? Why it should fill every fresh stream!
@@1pcfred lead acid battery is much more environmentally friendly than mining lithium. And they are easy to recycle. 99% of lead batteries are being recycled. While lithium are under 5%.
If this is as good as it claims..., I would be seriously annoyed if I'd just gone out and brought an existing £80k-£110k battery EV SUV...
When are BMW and Merc going to be using them?
We have been waiting for this.., the "miracle" new battery... 🥳
These won't be good for EVs. Too heavy and too little capacity. They'd be good for the energy grid and/or home storage, off grid, etc, though.
The main focus is and always should be about environment impact over profits.
This is necessary and was inevitable. You can’t base a world economy on a severely limited resource as is lithium. Additionally, I refuse to have something that explodes when in contact with water *on a water world* in my house or car. Bad enough it’s in my tiny phone (stored in a tin when not in use). They’re a bit late.
Great for large scale energy storage, but for the average consumer it'll be seen as a step down in usability of everyday use technology, and being more sustainable just won't be enough to stop the majority rejecting it until price is a massive hurdle.
the thing is lithium price is almost there
@@srir.5282 And likely going to keep going up.
Sodium and lithium batteries could be used for different applications depending on the benefits and drawbacks of each situation.
@@srir.5282 There's not enough lithium in estimated worldwide resources and reserves for the amount of battery grid storage we would need.
If this is the case I'm excited. I wonder if these batteries will be rechargeable? One use isn't anything to get excited over. I have lithium ions I've used for years.
Also, I'm amused at the idea of my laptop being powered by salt lol.
Salt powered laptop + cod warzone would basically be an infinite energy device, lol
regardless of how this video's trying to make it sound, the sodium they are talking about is sodium metal, not sodium chloride (salt). look up videos about sodium and water and you will realize that it's just as if not more dangerous than lithium batteries. (plus heavier) good luck if you get in a car crash in a battery powered vehicle is all i'm gonna say
@trance dj You're right. Battery fires are a nightmare for even seasoned firefighters. You can't just spray water and call it a day. On top of that batteries can sit for decades and catch fire!
@@XX-121 Something not mentioned in this video is how work is progressing on using porous glass to contain the electrolyte. I've seen a video of someone literally cutting up a thin-film battery made using "glass electrolyte" technology. The battery smokes at the point where it's being cut and flickers from the short-circuit, but after the cut is complete, it keeps on delivering current and does not catch on fire.
With sodium and glass electrolyte technology, next-generation batteries should be much safer than the current Li-Ion cells. Add the ability to take an 80% charge in 15 mins and suddenly long-distance driving becomes less of a problem. Start charging; get a coffee and drink it; come back and continue your journey.
@@melkiorwiseman5234 yeah, no thanks? are you one of the millions of morons that has been ignoring all the electricity shortages around the world? and the fact that they still have to burn fossil fuels to make it? and they still have to use oil to haul all the crap use to make electric cars around? and the cobalt mines run by child slave labor... what happens when those dry up? get a grip man. what we need right now is CHEAP GAS. you know like the kind we had before biden took office. yeah thin glass batteries. i'm sure that works great on a bumpy road. once again no thanks
What are the charge cycles in comparison to lithium iron and lithium ion.
Exactly. This has been the largest limitation with Na+ batteries so far.
What's the operating temperature? If you live up north in frigid temperatures will the battery stop working? Or if you live down South will it work in the heat?
This is one of those technologies that is actually good and practical. It's us adapting to the problem instead of trying to prevent it with unreliable nonsense like wind and solar. Humans as a whole aren't good at preventing. But we are good at adapting. We can't rely on either with current tech level, but they can still work as supplements and other applications.
Now we just need somebody in the US to start making this, and we can really go nuts on renewable energy. Lack of cost-effective grid scale storage has been a major obstacle.
I just drove through Iowa past dozens and dozens of defunct windmills. The main bearings wear out and it's extremely costly to repair them, so they just don't bother. All those windmills were erected via government subsidy. As much as I like the idea of renewable energy, you have to look at the practical details and realize that those windmills cost a fortune to construct and required fossil energy to do so and their lifespan is quite limited and will need to be torn down at some point, too. The tax dollars don't currently pay for that part of their lifecycle. To say none of it was ever cost effective would be a massive understatement. It was Obama's Green virtue-signaling. In the real world, it is an environmental disaster.
@@bb5242 So you're saying we need cheaper ways to service wind turbines. Sounds good. Perhaps some kind of self-erecting system where the entire drive module can climb down the tower to the ground? I hear the blades are also a problem, currently they're mostly made with fiberglass and cannot be restored so they just pile up. These are solvable mechanical engineering and materials engineering problems. The first internal combustion engines were pretty bad too, to the point that steam and electric cars were developed in parallel with gasoline engines for decades. We can't look at the current state of the technology to fully understand what we can achieve in the future.
Although the cathode is marked with a plus sign in schematics, it is actually negatively charged, and anode is positively charged, respectively
ill be waiting for these to add to my existing lifepo4 storage
When everybody is plugging their cars in to charge, magic ferry dust and unicorn gas will power the power plants to charge then.
I suppose you also complain about the intermittent nature of some renewable power generation technologies. Ever think to combine your complaints together and see that they complement each other for a net benefit?
Nuclear energy wya
Oh yeah I agree we have to get rid of cars they aren’t sustainable, EVs won’t save us
"We don't currently have the built infrastructure so let's drop the whole EV thing" said the petroleum lobbyist.
@@JackF99 honestly let’s do it and go to trains
@@JackF99 though EVs are better than a gas car by a lot, they don’t help solve our impending doom from climate change in any significant way
Question. Isnt there alredy a company in GB that makes sodiumbatteries since a few years back? If so wat is the difference to these batteries other than the production being able to be done in the same lines as the lithium today. Just curious as it would be interesting to know :)
china is known for stealing IP why spend billions on R&D when you can just take it with zero consequences
I love this technology shit more than anything. We are becoming more and more efficient daily!
An important question not answered is whether existing chargers for Li-ion batteries will readily work for charging the new Na-ion batteries. Having to replace all of my specialized Li-ion battery chargers to use these new batteries would be a non-starter. Hopefully the charging profile and the min and max voltages will be very similar to ensure cross-compatibility.
even if that were the case, which I doubt, that hardly seems like an insurmountable problem.
safety issues is more important and not addressed starting with corrosion and how it can lead to other hazards depending on material its cased in. like some can cause explosion. also like mercury is not allowed to be transported on airplanes due to how it reacts to aluminum rapidly eating it away. and some chemical reactions can alter elements into toxic gases or acids that even eat stainless steel etc. every tech has its own cons
A sodium battery sounds like something that would very easily corrode the rest of the battery, along with the circuits it will power.
So glad you chimed in to correct all those brilliant scientists that study this for a living. Remind us where you got your many degrees in chemistry, business, and electrical engineering so we can give you the credibility you claim to have
@@slowery43 I never said or claimed that I had a degree, so stop putting words into my mouth. Just use your common sense. You should know that sodium and electronics never go together. It will definitely corrode everything around it. Most people know that, and so should scientists.
Wow this looks encouraging, also on the bright side, if we ever get low, all we need is for FromSoft to release another GOTY and wait for the PS fanboys to find out. Seriously though a question to be answered is it more resilient to freezing temps than it's counterparts cause that is one of the biggest hurdles for EV adoption as they just are not practical in certain regions.
ALL batteries have issues with temperatures, too high and too low are both problematic.
Yes, you can extract salt from the ocean simply by evaporating the water. If you split the salt, you get sodium. That is one half of it. You are also left with an equal amount of mols in chlorine gas which is highly poisonous.
Assault and battery:
_are the two most common crimes people are charged with whenever there is a physical altercation between individuals._
Think EV just started with salt batteries when it was discontinued.
The batteries had to be heated to 300°C to work, and it used about 1kWh a day to maintain the temperature.
That is the old generation sodium ion battery that use sodium-manganese-dioxide to be cathode but its newly generation in 2022-2023 use sodiumferrocyanide as a cathode and hard carbon anode and achieve a low temperature performance, lower weight that can get high energy density as close as lithium ion battery and quicker charge.
@@PopularTymn CYANIDE ! That sounds delicious !
@@agileplatform : Cyanide in this form is not toxic to humans because the cyanide groups are tightly bound to iron.
@@agileplatform Sodium ferrocyanide is added to most brands of table salt, to stop it going lumpy in humid weather.
@David Wanklyn I don't think too much salt is bad for health because of the sodium ferrocyanide in it. There is a range of ratios of sodium and potassium in your body that is good for health, and too much salt (which is usually about 99% sodium chloride) can tip this ratio towards too much sodium in relation to the amount of potassium.