@ab8779 it's not even based off acting without the character of John kramer none of the saw films or jigsaw 'traps' would of existed. In a way i agree with his way of thinking people take life for granting although there us better ways of doing it he showed us that.
Yeah but he never really takes any hits, and whem he fights Strahm he goes down pretty fast (though he might have let Strahm throw him in ths coffin). John however we see on at least 2 occasions survive a beating and keep going. Stamina ill give him. Battle IQ I mean he gets one real moment on that by switching places with the dead body but his combat plans mostly seem to be "kill them before they even know im there". Jill got one up on him, so did Gordon, he didnt have anything setup to protect him save for the machine gun which was more to kill his only rival. John took out several swat with defenses and was thinking several pages ahead of everyone else.
@@aurorialgaming1935 I would say John's battle IQ is better when he has time to prepare but Hoffman is better when caught by surprise. He was extremely close to dying to the rigged reverse bear trap but he managed to escape it by being pretty smart.
@@mergimvllasa7577 That is true, the hard part here is John plans so far ahead. Catching him truly off guard is VERY hard to do. Actually this makes me realize John already has one over Hoffman. Why didnt Hoffman kill John when they first met?
@@aurorialgaming1935Many theories. Wanted to get rid of his demons, maybe scared that it's typical provocation by Jigsaw or he was scared that someone else going to give police information about his first kill(less possible, because Hoffman was the only one, who have very deep connection with police) or maybe all the factors. At least he have some respect for himself unlike Amanda and told John straight to his face that he want to play a punisher but in reality he is hypocrite that falling deep in his madness and cruelty because of his sickness progresses. Yeah i am believe that John is villain with good intentions. But still a villain and with God complex
Lawrence was a shadow partner, he harder to pointing, but the fact that he is the only one, who still alive, it's give him points in many levels, like skill, IQ and durability. But John still rules.
@@JohnnyCooper64 Nah Lawrence literally threw away the key/ the saw but maybe like Eric Matthews he could break his foot to e scape but I doubt it honestly
Hoffman wins in speed, battle IQ and strength. hell no one seems to remember that he is the only one in the series who escaped an activated reverse bear trap on his head. if that doesn't show you his speed and wits, I don't know what will.
I remember reading somewhere years ago that the Saw franchise should have been a television show instead of film using the same actors and same stories but with filler
Absolutely love Hoffman, and Costas Mandylor is a great actor, he played him so well. I think it’s a shame the films he is in are generally on the weaker side (3 and 6 being the exceptions) of the franchise, but he was by no means the weak link in the chain himself. A great character, very different to John, but just as clever under the right circumstances. He ran circles around the FBI for 3 films straight, that’s quite impressive given how many risks he takes.
@@francescosolfrizzi7563it’s not Hannibal is only smart at reading people and playing of how they react. John is a master manipulator and architect and inventor who built a whole fucking empire of his inventions.
@@godzillagaming1766 bro Hannibal Lecter is a master psychiatrist, surgeon, chef, harpsichordist, great connoisseur of Italian history and can speak many languages. I love Kramer but he is just a retcon mess and an inconsistent character.
Actually Lawrence wasn’t a copycat because he was doing what jigsaw asked he was sent to kill whoever kills Jill which was mark it’s fairly obvious John is the best tho😅
Like John said, he was his greatest asset. By far Gordon was the only one who acted as a legitimate apprentice. Not overruling johns actions making mistakes or not giving anyone a chance
@@-_deploy_- Amanda's puzzles were, probably because she was too emotional and new to it. Hoffman's puzzles were actually doable, just extremely hard to do so. Hoffman had been working with Kramer for a long time, doing most of the heavy lifting for Kramer, but also knowing some stuff about engineering the traps too.
Amanda ( pensaba que las personas no pueden cambian), Hoffman( ambición y apoderarse del legado), Logan( mataba por venganza), Gordon( el único que fue leal al legado de Kramer)
Hoffman is the most resilient,in many ways he is the true successor to John. Even if John himself didnt believe it and put his faith in Amanda(who he realised he was wrong about) and . The reason is that Hoffman was the one that best personified the survival instinct that Jigsaw was all about. John was made out to be like God in many ways,the god complex,the cloak,the belief that he is saving people from themselves In that way Hoffman would be the fallen Lucifer,left imprisoned in Hell(the bathroom) by Gods favored Michael(DrGordon).
@@negan1734 Só sei que se colocar ele e o John em um embate, com tempo de preparação, ele pode vencer. Inclusive, ele conseguiu antecipar muitos planos do John.
@@agiotadebengala3380 num combate com preparação jonh também vence, ele já capturou o Hoffman, ele sabe suas fraquezas, ele continuar sendo bem mais experto que Hoffman, apesar de Hoffman ser muito bom.
@@agiotadebengala3380If John gets time to prepare weve already seen the result. Hoffman is pshyically strong but he isnt an engineer, hes just a guy with plans already thought up by John.
Durability to John makes sense, He had cancer and got in a car crash, stepped on shards of glass, impaled by a metal rod, and got beat to death but managed to live
La sonrisa de jibsom es legendaria 😮😮...ese man era un genio...te daba a valorar tu vida..y la aprecias como no te imaginas...y solo castigaba a la gente mala o q cometieron algo malo en sus vidas😢😢
Strength: Hoffman Speed: Amanda IQ: John BIQ: Hoffman Experience: John Survival instinct: Hoffman Weapons: John Choices: Gordon Manipulation: John Skill: Hoffman Stealth: John Agility: Amanda Alive: Gordon Durability: Hoffman Improvisation: Hoffman Dexterity: Amanda
@@newhybrid101Yes he did take away the saw from Hoffman, BUT only after Hoffman already killed Jill, who was acting on behalf of John to test Hoffman. Yes Hoffman gave them more of a chance than Amanda, but he wasnt a true believer.
OK this depends on the situation Physical fight? Hoffman wins, only competition would be Gordon (ex marine) but without his leg I think Hoffman wins. Manipulation? John, no question. Who builds the best trap? Also John, no question. Pure intelligence? Gordon (again, ex marine, one of John's first associates, and an accomplished cancer surgeon). Footrace/dexterity test? Amanda (girl recovered from major drug abuse and is crazy fast)
The whole entire movie made me tear up I teared up after the whole entire movie I watched every one of the movies for the movie next month I almost cried for real can’t break myself
Yes,he is ridiculously intelligent but suffers from delusions of grandeur and god complex. John believing he isnt killing his victims is similar to the Bibles God saying he doesn't humans to Hell and that they sent themselves. Its part of why he wears such a cloak,he genuinely believes he is god but wont admit it. Hoffman is the most resilient and most capable physically
Hot take but i think Hoffman is up there with John for IQ (not knowledge, john was way more knowledge especially on random stuff). He's the reason Amanda died and John died earlier than expected
Who should I do next ?
Peter strahm vs Hoffman
Can you do William Schenk vs Logan Nelson
@@LuppoXeditsgood one
Logan vs Gordon
@@Eric-Matthews_SAW2-SAW4.Erick Matthews!!! Soy tu fan XD buena participación en Jigsaw 2
John's smile is absolutely iconic
You never want to see him smiling.
When he's smiling he seems like a nice guy until you know who he is
There will be blood!!!
@@Thunderboltthespidergen IT'S a Great guy ! It's just a revenge !
In speed, agility and dexterity, Hoffman wins. He is a trained officer 😂
Hes fat, tho
@@Member_Of_the_Golden_Dawn😂😂😂
Dont forget that he is Hoffmanator 😂
@@Carlos1y5-xp5zy well in saw 7 he lost good amount of fat
Did you see the deleted scene in saw 3 it shows Amanda's combat skill
hoffman became a whole ass slasher in his last movie 💀
Saw is nothing without our boy john 💯
I agree hes a cool actor
Tobin bell is amazing 😊
@ab8779 it's not even based off acting without the character of John kramer none of the saw films or jigsaw 'traps' would of existed. In a way i agree with his way of thinking people take life for granting although there us better ways of doing it he showed us that.
But at the end Gordon is only survivor 😂
Gordon has 2 points 1 for choices and 1 for surviving
I have an entire ESSAY on why I think that Hoffman is and might still be alive. Just saying.
@@A_Canadian_Idiot i am interested
@@A_Canadian_Idiothe is
I am interested @@A_Canadian_Idiot
Battle IQ, stamina and endurance goes to Hoffman. He is called Hoffmanator in Saw fandom for a reason
Yeah but he never really takes any hits, and whem he fights Strahm he goes down pretty fast (though he might have let Strahm throw him in ths coffin). John however we see on at least 2 occasions survive a beating and keep going. Stamina ill give him. Battle IQ I mean he gets one real moment on that by switching places with the dead body but his combat plans mostly seem to be "kill them before they even know im there". Jill got one up on him, so did Gordon, he didnt have anything setup to protect him save for the machine gun which was more to kill his only rival. John took out several swat with defenses and was thinking several pages ahead of everyone else.
only john's chick jill hurted hoffman real bad. especially the saw 6 ending. i wonder if when hoffman knew about cut sewing??
@@aurorialgaming1935 I would say John's battle IQ is better when he has time to prepare but Hoffman is better when caught by surprise. He was extremely close to dying to the rigged reverse bear trap but he managed to escape it by being pretty smart.
@@mergimvllasa7577 That is true, the hard part here is John plans so far ahead. Catching him truly off guard is VERY hard to do. Actually this makes me realize John already has one over Hoffman. Why didnt Hoffman kill John when they first met?
@@aurorialgaming1935Many theories. Wanted to get rid of his demons, maybe scared that it's typical provocation by Jigsaw or he was scared that someone else going to give police information about his first kill(less possible, because Hoffman was the only one, who have very deep connection with police) or maybe all the factors. At least he have some respect for himself unlike Amanda and told John straight to his face that he want to play a punisher but in reality he is hypocrite that falling deep in his madness and cruelty because of his sickness progresses. Yeah i am believe that John is villain with good intentions. But still a villain and with God complex
Lawrence was a shadow partner, he harder to pointing, but the fact that he is the only one, who still alive, it's give him points in many levels, like skill, IQ and durability. But John still rules.
Hoffman could still be alive
Nah
@@JohnnyCooper64are you kidding, I doubt he is
@@JohnnyCooper64 Nah Lawrence literally threw away the key/ the saw but maybe like Eric Matthews he could break his foot to e scape but I doubt it honestly
@@JohnnyCooper64hell no lol. They captured the traitor
Hoffman wins in speed, battle IQ and strength. hell no one seems to remember that he is the only one in the series who escaped an activated reverse bear trap on his head. if that doesn't show you his speed and wits, I don't know what will.
Amanda
@@ssytcwHoffman is way stronger and smarter than Amanda
@c1abatta_654 the point I was making is that she also escaped an activated bear trap
@@ssytcw She escaped the bear trap by following the rules, Hoffman escaped even if there was no escape
@@ssytcw Hoffman wasn't given a fair chance to escape from the trap unlike Amanda. So he broke the game. Hoffman the game breaker for the win.
Eric Matthews seeing Kramer get durability: 💀
🤨
WEQEWQEWEWQEW
Durability to Hoffman you see what happened in the end of saw 6
Durabilidade para Kramer,sobreviveu a uma surra do Eric Mathews msm morrendo com um câncer no cérebro
IQ all the fucking way to John, he’s old as hell and knows how to construct these goddamn traps.
He is late 40s, he's not THAT old
@@Member_Of_the_Golden_Dawn 52.
@@Member_Of_the_Golden_Dawnhe's 52 lmao
@@Member_Of_the_Golden_Dawn the actor is 81 now, like damn
@@Member_Of_the_Golden_DawnLate 50s
saw one of the most underrated movie franchises -nice edit btw
Underrated? It’s one of the biggest money makers in the horror movie industry.
Underrated ???
Underrated? It’s literally one of the biggest horror movie franchises.
Great franchise with great villain
You spelled over-rated wrong.
Every time john smiles i get goosebumps
“Oh yes, there will be blood.” - Jigsaw
Battle IQ: Hoffman
Saw is the most underrated franchise ever
I swear if Saw was on Netflix, it would be top 3 most famous horror/detective movie series
Saw is one of the most widely known horror franchises of all time... Do people just say underrated for everything and everyone now?
@@Qin_Leeit is on Netflix it's leaving in 30th March
I remember reading somewhere years ago that the Saw franchise should have been a television show instead of film using the same actors and same stories but with filler
@@Areeb_Macherthey are still there
I identify as a Hoffman simp, he is the coolest one in the franchise, second to none (Except for Jon)
Absolutely love Hoffman, and Costas Mandylor is a great actor, he played him so well. I think it’s a shame the films he is in are generally on the weaker side (3 and 6 being the exceptions) of the franchise, but he was by no means the weak link in the chain himself. A great character, very different to John, but just as clever under the right circumstances. He ran circles around the FBI for 3 films straight, that’s quite impressive given how many risks he takes.
@@horrorfanandy4647hoffman is back ❤
@@somes13in what sense?
@@Matri_p He will come back in saw 10
@@Matri_phis voice in trailer and cast at google Saw X
Bruh Tobin bell aka John Kramer is 81 years old and still kicking ass on saw god dam🎉btw did y’all watch saw x
Not yet
@@garypatterson9980I definitely recommend it. Pretty good movie
Movies that came out have been good for the past 3 months.
I have done that
Jigsaw’s intelligence is SO high, that he outwits Hannibal Lector, who comes in second for smartest horror villain.
Cap
@@francescosolfrizzi7563facts
@@francescosolfrizzi7563it’s not Hannibal is only smart at reading people and playing of how they react.
John is a master manipulator and architect and inventor who built a whole fucking empire of his inventions.
@@godzillagaming1766 bro Hannibal Lecter is a master psychiatrist, surgeon, chef, harpsichordist, great connoisseur of Italian history and can speak many languages. I love Kramer but he is just a retcon mess and an inconsistent character.
@@francescosolfrizzi7563 That's the whole Saw franchise for you
In a physical fight hoffman absolutely destroys
In the next saw movie we should have John Amanda Hoffman and Gordon all together
I will admit I do like John's smile. Somehow it's unsettling and comforting. Iconic!
Alternative title: Jigsaw vs the copycats
Actually Lawrence wasn’t a copycat because he was doing what jigsaw asked he was sent to kill whoever kills Jill which was mark it’s fairly obvious John is the best tho😅
😮😢👹😞 sa wasxaswv😈👿😵👹☠️😡😵🆗🤨🎃🎃🎃🎃🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳👤👤👤👤👤🫂💔🫀👂🦷🙌🫀💔🫁🧠🧠🧠🧠🫁🫁🫁🫁🕳️🕳️💙💙🕳️☠️☠️☠️☠️🌒🌒🌒🌒🌒🌒🌒😵😵😵😵😵😵😵😡😵😵😵😵😮😮😮😮😮😮
Hoffman is a smart man tho 😊
I love this edit
Everyone can agrue between Amanda, Hoffman and Lawrence but no doubt John is the 🐐
The best apprentice was Gordon because he gave the people in the traps chances unlike Amanda and Hoffman
Like John said, he was his greatest asset. By far Gordon was the only one who acted as a legitimate apprentice. Not overruling johns actions making mistakes or not giving anyone a chance
Hoffman still gave them the ability to survive, he just made it nearly impossible to pull off.
@@pinhead1627 no, some of them were really unbeatable
@@-_deploy_- Amanda's puzzles were, probably because she was too emotional and new to it. Hoffman's puzzles were actually doable, just extremely hard to do so. Hoffman had been working with Kramer for a long time, doing most of the heavy lifting for Kramer, but also knowing some stuff about engineering the traps too.
Amanda ( pensaba que las personas no pueden cambian),
Hoffman( ambición y apoderarse del legado), Logan( mataba por venganza), Gordon( el único que fue leal al legado de Kramer)
Speed goes to Hoffman
He also takes batlle iq
Are you serious rn?
@@user-yu5ru3jt5o Yes, absolutely.
@@user-yu5ru3jt5ohe is definetely faster than Amanda
Hoffman is the most resilient,in many ways he is the true successor to John.
Even if John himself didnt believe it and put his faith in Amanda(who he realised he was wrong about) and .
The reason is that Hoffman was the one that best personified the survival instinct that Jigsaw was all about.
John was made out to be like God in many ways,the god complex,the cloak,the belief that he is saving people from themselves
In that way Hoffman would be the fallen Lucifer,left imprisoned in Hell(the bathroom) by Gods favored Michael(DrGordon).
Are you ok?
If you ain't picking the Hofminator then theres something wrong with you
Fax
Iq would prob go to Gordon, he’s the only one with a medical degree 😂
Thats Just accademic iq
John Kramer is an engineer, isn't he? So, he has an academic degree too
However, they both deserve the Iq stat.
@@indescribablecardinal6571 thecnically a medical degree takes much academic iq
@@indescribablecardinal6571 yea I guess so, engineers also have to go pretty far into mathematics
Hoffman >>>>>
He’s just brutal
Hoffman perdeu, foi manipulado por jonh assim como os outros, mais ele é brutal!
@@negan1734 Só sei que se colocar ele e o John em um embate, com tempo de preparação, ele pode vencer.
Inclusive, ele conseguiu antecipar muitos planos do John.
@@agiotadebengala3380 num combate com preparação jonh também vence, ele já capturou o Hoffman, ele sabe suas fraquezas, ele continuar sendo bem mais experto que Hoffman, apesar de Hoffman ser muito bom.
@@agiotadebengala3380If John gets time to prepare weve already seen the result. Hoffman is pshyically strong but he isnt an engineer, hes just a guy with plans already thought up by John.
Which version of the song is this
Durability to John makes sense, He had cancer and got in a car crash, stepped on shards of glass, impaled by a metal rod, and got beat to death but managed to live
I love John’s smile 😀
Jigsaw Is my favorite character.
" I'm a doctor " Legendary quote
i need the version with logan.
La sonrisa de jibsom es legendaria 😮😮...ese man era un genio...te daba a valorar tu vida..y la aprecias como no te imaginas...y solo castigaba a la gente mala o q cometieron algo malo en sus vidas😢😢
Gordon got one lone point, just like his status as sole survivor of the four.
I’ve been listening to this on loop for like 30 min.
Hoffman & John Kramer❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
That smile😂
Hoffmanator strikes again…
Durability definitely should go to Hoffman. The things the guy has gotten out of and the physical pain in the process is the definition of durability
If you put all the jigsaw killers together
" We wanna play a game"
Happy Hoffman was in saw x
In stamina and speed Hoffman definitely wins. Do remember you’re putting a drug addict against a fully trained cop
Durability: John
Lawrence: "Am I a joke to you?"
bro didn’t give durability to a man who sawed his legg off
Amanda doesn’t deserve half of these tbh
Saw : ❤ I want to play a game
Gordon: I’m just leave now
Mark is the best
added durability to cancer patient 💀
He is a cancer patient and survived a car accident when he tried to kill himself
@@BenTennyson10494 I just forgot that detail
Strength: Hoffman
Speed: Amanda
IQ: John
BIQ: Hoffman
Experience: John
Survival instinct: Hoffman
Weapons: John
Choices: Gordon
Manipulation: John
Skill: Hoffman
Stealth: John
Agility: Amanda
Alive: Gordon
Durability: Hoffman
Improvisation: Hoffman
Dexterity: Amanda
What version of poker face is this?
This was so confusing to keep track of
fr
One of my favorite edits I’ve found. Nicely done.
Out of all the disciples of Jigsaw, Gordon was the only one who actually lived by John Kramer’s ideology.
He did not.He left Hoffman with no chance of survival by throwing the saw away.
Hoffman will more likely face him in the Saw11
@@newhybrid101Hoffman already failed his final test by pursuing Jill, so the bathroom was his punishment.
@@newhybrid101Yes he did take away the saw from Hoffman, BUT only after Hoffman already killed Jill, who was acting on behalf of John to test Hoffman. Yes Hoffman gave them more of a chance than Amanda, but he wasnt a true believer.
@@newhybrid101like kramer left adam even though he won the game
OK this depends on the situation
Physical fight? Hoffman wins, only competition would be Gordon (ex marine) but without his leg I think Hoffman wins.
Manipulation? John, no question.
Who builds the best trap? Also John, no question.
Pure intelligence? Gordon (again, ex marine, one of John's first associates, and an accomplished cancer surgeon).
Footrace/dexterity test? Amanda (girl recovered from major drug abuse and is crazy fast)
Gordon is not ex marine, what are you talking about? Logan is.
Stripe vs claw
Logan: 👀
Yea even tho John Kramer might be old he still has alot of ways to fool you and trap you into his traps
Idk why but this edit is so funny in the context of... Saw
Sawx😈👿😇🕳️🥶🤢🤮💀☠️🦶🏻👂🏻🧒🏻🧑🏻🌕🌑🌍🔪🚨🏹🎤🎧🔦💡🪓💉🥼🔨📝✏️🕒🕑🕜🕕🕠🔊🔉🔑🗝️🔐🔏🪤💣🗡️⚔️🛡️🎶🎵🎇🎆🏰⛩️🧳🛬🚖🧑🏻🔧🧑🏻⚕️👼🏻👮🏻🕵🏻🧕🏻👲🏻😂🎉😅😊🤮😰😨
Loyalty-Dr. Lawrence Gordon
MARCK HOFFMAN IS THE SINGLE BEST CHARACTER IN THE FRANCHISE DONT GIVE A DAMN
🧢
@@Judoka512 THEY LEGIT TRIED TO KILL HIM OFF, BUT HE KEPT GOING, THAT MAN IS UNSTOPPABLE HE IS THE GOATT
@@fuckskorn 🧢
Lawrence is probably the best balance, sadly though that means he won’t get a single point, despite being pretty solid in each category
He was great
agreed hoffman was the coolest and most dangerous
Bro gave choices to the person who cut his own foot off instead of reaching for the phone 💀
This makes me laugh so hard I love the idea of posts about saw like this lmfao
Out of all four the one with beard is my favourite
Great edit buddy 🔥
W edit bro 🎉
John is Immortal 😢😢😢
John Kramer looks different when he has hair
bro really dropped this edit 💀
Damn even Saw vs/battles now.. I love it!!!!
Legend: JOHN KRAMER
The whole entire movie made me tear up I teared up after the whole entire movie I watched every one of the movies for the movie next month I almost cried for real can’t break myself
very nice❤️❤️❤️❤️
amanda young mi waifu en el 2000
She was hot af.
Honestly we didn't get enough of Lawrence being an apprentice but Amanda GOD she's my favorite
John Kramer the best genius 🗿🍷
Who’s more durable?
3 healthy adults
1 cancer patient
SAW MY HEART
I want to play game- John Kramer
Hoffman did NOT get enough credit here
If this is about who is a better character then sure but if its about who wins in a fight then hoffman can solo all 3 of them
You really gave John a point because he's the oldest of them 💀
Don’t forget the first one…the doctor in jigsaw 2017 he was the first apprentice…I forgot his name
Logan Nelson!
John Kramer is fucking genius..he always have a plan b , c , d
Is John Kramer really the most intelligent (both general and in battle) character in the Saw franchise?
Yes,he is ridiculously intelligent but suffers from delusions of grandeur and god complex.
John believing he isnt killing his victims is similar to the Bibles God saying he doesn't humans to Hell and that they sent themselves.
Its part of why he wears such a cloak,he genuinely believes he is god but wont admit it.
Hoffman is the most resilient and most capable physically
Watching John Kramer smile is just GOLDEN
Hoffmanator is underrated, he brute forced his way out of the RBP like come on
John>Gordon>Mark>Amanda
YES
Mark>>>gordon mark>>amanda john>all apprentice
@@isaacxd2510you have no valuable to utter it shows
Mark would destroy Gordon in a 1v1
@@isaacxd2510 John >>>> Logan > Gordon > Hoffman > Amanda
Good 😊 edit✊
Battle Iq should've gone for Hoffman
They gave the old cancer victim durability and not the police force that is hofman
Hot take but i think Hoffman is up there with John for IQ (not knowledge, john was way more knowledge especially on random stuff). He's the reason Amanda died and John died earlier than expected