I didn't hate 'Listen' but I did feel that it fell pretty comfortably into the 'Moffat's failure to deliver' category. To me it kind of just felt like one of Moffat's anticlimactic series arcs condensed to a single episode. You know what I mean? Like, it basically set itself up to feel like something profound or meaningful was going to eventuate and instead it was...basically nothing or just the same thing as before (much like the outcome following the hype built around the entire Matt Smith era). So yeah, I thought it was interesting but it fell a bit flat for me at the end. Also doesn't help that Clara is still the most underwritten character in WHO history!
She's simultaneously underwritten and the single most important companion The Doctor has ever had who only gets more important with every few episodes she's in, and she earns none of it. She's not even had a full series by this point, yet she's been saving The Doctor in his every incarnation, even being the one to point 1 to the fuckin' TARDIS, she was the one who made him save the Time Lords with a retarded speech, she's the one who gave him his extra regeneration cycle with a retarded speech, she's the one who inspired catchphrases from Hartnell's doctor and whose left behind toy is implied to be the inspiration for his actions as The Doctor. Oh, and she inspired some crucial words of the promise which lies behind the name of The Doctor. This is my first run through her tenure on the show and, at this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if she were retconned to be The Doctor's literal mother.
It's terrible. It's like a dull version of Blink where it said at the end that they were just statues and people just went missing normally. Unoriginal and very poorly written, also not scary on first viewing but certainly not on any viewings after that.
Matt, King of the North I was liking the concept for listen then I saw Clara be the one who touched the doctors foot saying it was her all along and all I thought was you have got to be fucking kidding me
listen is the perfect manifestation of Stephan Moffats ego, and willingness to take credit for EVERYTHING in Doctor Who history, via his badly written little joke of a mary sue character. nothing more.
Perfect. Except it's missing the phrase: "while simultaneously ignoring everything in Doctor Who history that transpired before he started writing for it". You can insert it right before the word "via". Seriously, his straight-faced reason for making "Night of the Doctor" was this: "One of the Doctors was missing his regeneration and I wanted to check that box." Then he dismissed the idea of a Paul McGann minisode series because, after all, "Which Doctor would go on the lunchbox?"
Oh my god, why do I see this amazing review so late? It´s persumably even the best and most accurate one I´ve seen so far, which means quite something, because I genuinely endorsed "Listen" and still do. But what I find pretty extraordinary on this one is the fact that, if I imagined, I wasn´t a Whovian and may have never even heard anything about it before and THEN watched this review, I bet you I would get interested!. I mean it´s easier for the little bit "crazier" people to gravitate towards such stories, I guess, rather than mainstream audiences. But even if you showed one of them this review, It´s hard to explain, must have something to do with the very special way you recap the story, but I bet they would get curious!
Definitely agree with your point about how Doctor Who is subjective. A friend and I had loads of arguments about this episode, but ultimately you have to accept there is no "correct" way to react to anything, regardless of general consensus, as any work of fiction is only defined by the perception of each individual audience member. It's something I always try to drive home whenever I make reviews/rants on TV or literature.
KATCompositions Hammering that message home really needs doing, especially when it comes to fandom circiles like our one. The main reason I quit going on imdb forums is people don't seem to know this. I mean its fully possible to make a legitimate argument in favour of the Twin Dilemma, sure the backlash may have ingrained popular opinion that "it is a piece of shit" but everyone's different and can go to lengths to explain their reaction cause its all based on your own sense of logic and reasoning
There are two types of people in any fandom, people who think everything is great, and people with standards and hate to see the things they love degrade inequality. Your taste in food is subjective but if you burn you dis you still did it wrong. morality is subjective but murder is still punished. Crap writing is still crap writing even if their people that like it. Their many things I like that objective not perfect or even good and there are many things I would call objective good that I have no interest in. Crap writing is still crap writing.
maybe because it was so soon after the "of the doctor" quadrilogy but I though tit was a bit much to go back to the doctors childhood, Moffat is too keen to put his stamp over all of Who. other than that I loved every a scene in this episode.
I think kurumais summed my thoughts up perfectly, a fifteen minute idea stretched over forty-five. I felt like a lot of the episode was padded by those long speeches. I actually did like the bit where The Doctor was talking to himself. It was kind of funny to see that, but most of the episode felt like Moffat took the while getting mixed up in time idea from The Space Museum and tried to make it like Memento with a happy ending.
Listen started with an interesting concept that didn't evolve :-S the turning your back on the "bed sheet" was a rip off from A Nightmare on Elm Street pt 1 The monologue date scenes bored me and lost interest - then Clara couldn't understand why there was a future member of her date there - at this point I smacked my face in despair. It got a little more interesting what's beyond the door - nope not going to know and the final Clara and young Dr and linking it with the War Dr caused me to shout out "Bullshit" and "she needs to fucking go" and there was a whooping continuity error the toy solider she left with the young dr - how the hell could her young date have it if the Drs got it??? The Clara monologue at the end had me on the floor screaming to the heavens shouting "Why why damn you Moffat, you have made the one dimensional creature of Clara into a key instrumental factor in the young Drs development" I had to cleanse myself by watching "The Twin Dilemma"
Even though I actually end up diagreeing with many of your opinions, your videos are always entertaining to watch and you actually respect other opinions.
I felt that the Chameleon was dismissed because people know it exists. Heck, even people even know the Silence exists. So something's gotta have evolved perfect hiding so that nobody knows it exists.
What was genius about this episode is how Moffat takes something that is commonplace, like blinking and breathing and shadowing and making that scary. We all listen to things, so what if you made listening to things the monster?
I was really bummed out when I realized it wasn't a continuation of the Family of Blood storyline. The promo made it sound like Sister of Mine was taking revenge on the Doctor but apparently it was just a convoluted filler episode to help Moffet stroke his own ego. It completely ignored the middle (Danny's childhood) by telling us that we were all scared children and still are in some way. With the longevity of the Doctor's lifespan you'd think he'd deal with all of this well before meeting Clara, wouldn't you?
Ive got no problem with there being no monster, but if that was what they were going for then what was under the sheet? Significant plot point left in the dust.
The whole concept of this episode is that nobody will never know what was under the sheet or what was knocking at the door. In the episode itself it's specifically stated it could have been just another child pulling a prank on Rupert and the knocking probaply was the metal deforming due to the low temperatures. The whole message of this episode is that it ultimatly doesn't matter what it was because it's ok to be afraid of it either way. It's honestly sad seeing so many people not getting the message behind it (which is fine by itself) but then saying it's just shit writing even though it really isn't.
i thought it was a 15 minute idea stretched out over 45 minutes. i am surprised at your reaction i thought what they did with clara in this ep would get your goat
To be honest I recon that in the video you should've given us a hint on how the kettle moved, I would've preferred it as it's already started some controversy, I personally think that you attached string to it, my friend however, is constantly banging on about how it was a magnet or the kettle has a mind of it's own and started moving due to boredom of where it was placed, I mean, scenery can get boring after a long time so it's good to position yourself somewhere else like the kettle did to spice things up. I still think that string did it though because reason.
This episode didn't matter because they hardly spoke about the concept from the start and I don't care about Clara or Danny so what happened to them was meh.
This is part of why I didn't do a review of it. That and I don't really know what to think. And since not a lot of people watch me I can get away with it. :P
I hate this episode. the question "why is their no such thing as perfect hiding' make the doctor like a morn. There is such a thing as perfect hiding, octopi can change shape color and texture to hide. The premise makes no fucking sense and it gets even worse when the twist is revealed. It feels like they ran out of money and couldn't make a monster. It makes the doctor look like a fucking delusional madman who things the boogie man is real. It set up this monster and ends with this fate out that makes the whole episode retroactively make no fucking sense. If you think this episode is perfect I would love to hear why because I don't see what you see. I think if you like this episode your standards are low, please persuade me otherwise.
omago how can yo not lik dis epsod the twist at da end iz so mush good! It pisses me off when people put it above episodes that are great and I will rewatch over an over I am too scared to watch Listen again after I watched it back in 2014 so I might like it but I have no interest in watching it again. But that's their opinion so it's fine.
8 out of 10 for that picture of Moss on tree!!! Stop being so fucking objective!!!! Thats 10 out of 10 in my books. Giggle....Just joking but the pic is still 10 out of 10 :) Im greatly enjoying this season of Dr Who, more so than in a while :) May I say that you sound like Neil from the Young Ones. Bugger it, I said it anyway!!! Giggle :)
Avebury Eddie Lol, had that one all my life :) strangely not on my channel thoughYeah, I am glad lots of people seem to be really enjoying season 8 so far, I'm still kinda unethusiastic about it, hence the cynicism, but live and let live, its all opinion, and obviously as a massive fanboy I do want the show to do well with people
see i dont feel u shud feel expected to review every new episode man, I love the show whatever youre talking about, if ever theres an episode u dont wanna review just make a video about another topic in DW,
The Dev lol, cheers dev :) yeah I know, but that's the thing I kinda did wanna do a straight review, least at first. I still sorta think it would be worth discussing Listen seriously, it does do a lot of stuff I find interesting and encouraging but after loads of redrafts and reading a wide range of reactions to it: this was the only video I could possibly be half happy with this week. Its good to know to know I got ya hooked though, cheers :)
***** aye course man i love watching people be cynical and funny about things I and they are passionate about, ive spent many nights with a few grams of green and watched your doctor who vids; and Hagan's and Nash's. For some reason a lot of story ideas come to me when im doing this.
***** as for that Listen review, how about you leave it for a while, like until after series 8 is over then it will be something to talk about while no new episodes are out and by then im sure youd be able to settle on a good script. not that anything was wrong with this one, i enjoyed it but i feel the childish observation thing worked better in smaller doses (like in 50 shades) rather than that be most of the review.
The Dev Yeah, I get what you mean, I have an annoying habit of overdoing things and an obssessive attitude when it comes to "completeness". I have been thinking lately maybe I should just sit back and see whether the rest of the series'll provoke a reaction from me instead of expecting it to
Man, as an American woman who's only vaguely seen Dr. Wibbly Timey Wimey Ball I'm honestly very intrigued by the Fifteenth Doctor and by extension how this whole franchise works.
I didn't hate 'Listen' but I did feel that it fell pretty comfortably into the 'Moffat's failure to deliver' category. To me it kind of just felt like one of Moffat's anticlimactic series arcs condensed to a single episode. You know what I mean? Like, it basically set itself up to feel like something profound or meaningful was going to eventuate and instead it was...basically nothing or just the same thing as before (much like the outcome following the hype built around the entire Matt Smith era). So yeah, I thought it was interesting but it fell a bit flat for me at the end. Also doesn't help that Clara is still the most underwritten character in WHO history!
She's simultaneously underwritten and the single most important companion The Doctor has ever had who only gets more important with every few episodes she's in, and she earns none of it. She's not even had a full series by this point, yet she's been saving The Doctor in his every incarnation, even being the one to point 1 to the fuckin' TARDIS, she was the one who made him save the Time Lords with a retarded speech, she's the one who gave him his extra regeneration cycle with a retarded speech, she's the one who inspired catchphrases from Hartnell's doctor and whose left behind toy is implied to be the inspiration for his actions as The Doctor. Oh, and she inspired some crucial words of the promise which lies behind the name of The Doctor.
This is my first run through her tenure on the show and, at this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if she were retconned to be The Doctor's literal mother.
Just found you this evening. I applauded you before, but after this, I bow before you.
+gilesderoet :) cheers. Welcome aboard
I thought the Monster from silence in the library would be perfect at hiding
Or the silence, or the zigons, or regular earth octopi.
Although I really enjoyed this episode I respect your opinion and I have to admit you made me laugh. You've earned a sub :D
It's terrible. It's like a dull version of Blink where it said at the end that they were just statues and people just went missing normally. Unoriginal and very poorly written, also not scary on first viewing but certainly not on any viewings after that.
Matt, King of the North I was liking the concept for listen then I saw Clara be the one who touched the doctors foot saying it was her all along and all I thought was you have got to be fucking kidding me
it scared me on first viewing but after i was like: Meh, Too much Clara
The Holy Grail music is perfect. Should be the new Doctor Who theme.
the blowfish from the first few minutes of listen fanpage...LOL
Can't stop laughing
Chemelions generally don't disguise themselves, they change color with emotion...
I feel that you may have missed the point of this video slightly. Unless I did. Who knows how many sarcastic layers it has?
listen is the perfect manifestation of Stephan Moffats ego, and willingness to take credit for EVERYTHING in Doctor Who history, via his badly written little joke of a mary sue character. nothing more.
Perfect. Except it's missing the phrase: "while simultaneously ignoring everything in Doctor Who history that transpired before he started writing for it". You can insert it right before the word "via". Seriously, his straight-faced reason for making "Night of the Doctor" was this: "One of the Doctors was missing his regeneration and I wanted to check that box." Then he dismissed the idea of a Paul McGann minisode series because, after all, "Which Doctor would go on the lunchbox?"
7:06 OMG! THE KETTLE IS MOVING! WHAT MOVED THE KETTLE? ENDLESSLY DISCUSS IT ON FORUMS FOR SOME REASON!!!
i miss when doctor who was at least weird and interesting enough to have strong opinions about it, even if they were negative
6:46 Oh my God, I just realized how he did that door, thing!
Oh my god, why do I see this amazing review so late? It´s persumably even the best and most accurate one I´ve seen so far, which means quite something, because I genuinely endorsed "Listen" and still do. But what I find pretty extraordinary on this one is the fact that, if I imagined, I wasn´t a Whovian and may have never even heard anything about it before and THEN watched this review, I bet you I would get interested!. I mean it´s easier for the little bit "crazier" people to gravitate towards such stories, I guess, rather than mainstream audiences. But even if you showed one of them this review, It´s hard to explain, must have something to do with the very special way you recap the story, but I bet they would get curious!
Steven MOSSat
I screamed with laughter at this video. You should have a weekly guest spot on a TV program.
...So where is that moss review????
Definitely agree with your point about how Doctor Who is subjective. A friend and I had loads of arguments about this episode, but ultimately you have to accept there is no "correct" way to react to anything, regardless of general consensus, as any work of fiction is only defined by the perception of each individual audience member. It's something I always try to drive home whenever I make reviews/rants on TV or literature.
KATCompositions Hammering that message home really needs doing, especially when it comes to fandom circiles like our one. The main reason I quit going on imdb forums is people don't seem to know this. I mean its fully possible to make a legitimate argument in favour of the Twin Dilemma, sure the backlash may have ingrained popular opinion that "it is a piece of shit" but everyone's different and can go to lengths to explain their reaction cause its all based on your own sense of logic and reasoning
There are two types of people in any fandom, people who think everything is great, and people with standards and hate to see the things they love degrade inequality. Your taste in food is subjective but if you burn you dis you still did it wrong. morality is subjective but murder is still punished. Crap writing is still crap writing even if their people that like it. Their many things I like that objective not perfect or even good and there are many things I would call objective good that I have no interest in. Crap writing is still crap writing.
maybe because it was so soon after the "of the doctor" quadrilogy but I though tit was a bit much to go back to the doctors childhood, Moffat is too keen to put his stamp over all of Who.
other than that I loved every a scene in this episode.
Waaay too keen. The man's a narcissistic animal
6:27 My God, you didn't tell me this was a horror!
1:08 Shouldn't the fence be in the middle?
I think kurumais summed my thoughts up perfectly, a fifteen minute idea stretched over forty-five. I felt like a lot of the episode was padded by those long speeches. I actually did like the bit where The Doctor was talking to himself. It was kind of funny to see that, but most of the episode felt like Moffat took the while getting mixed up in time idea from The Space Museum and tried to make it like Memento with a happy ending.
Listen started with an interesting concept that didn't evolve :-S the turning your back on the "bed sheet" was a rip off from A Nightmare on Elm Street pt 1
The monologue date scenes bored me and lost interest - then Clara couldn't understand why there was a future member of her date there - at this point I smacked my face in despair.
It got a little more interesting what's beyond the door - nope not going to know and the final Clara and young Dr and linking it with the War Dr caused me to shout out "Bullshit" and "she needs to fucking go" and there was a whooping continuity error the toy solider she left with the young dr - how the hell could her young date have it if the Drs got it???
The Clara monologue at the end had me on the floor screaming to the heavens shouting "Why why damn you Moffat, you have made the one dimensional creature of Clara into a key instrumental factor in the young Drs development"
I had to cleanse myself by watching "The Twin Dilemma"
I find the opposite TBH I can't find many places online where Listen isn't being bashed
"Your feet will get very lonely" art.
Even though I actually end up diagreeing with many of your opinions, your videos are always entertaining to watch and you actually respect other opinions.
It was a cool set up. But it's clear there wasn't anything to do after that initial setup Moffat didn't want to let go off.
I always take the piss out of pointless characters deserving a spin off
1:19 why does this remind me so much of the state of the fandom after the 13th Doctor reveal.
This episode made Me hate Clara.
Casual CraftMan Three Virtues
Unity
Duty
Destiny
I felt that the Chameleon was dismissed because people know it exists. Heck, even people even know the Silence exists. So something's gotta have evolved perfect hiding so that nobody knows it exists.
How are suppose to find a mate to reproduce with when you can find each other? Also, octopi can change shape, color, and texture.
But you literally see the creature when the sheet is pulled off. It looks like the little alien from the reboot star trek.
It's pupusfully out of focus so you can't be sure. I know it's a little bit to visable but it's not supposed to
What was genius about this episode is how Moffat takes something that is commonplace, like blinking and breathing and shadowing and making that scary.
We all listen to things, so what if you made listening to things the monster?
I was really bummed out when I realized it wasn't a continuation of the Family of Blood storyline. The promo made it sound like Sister of Mine was taking revenge on the Doctor but apparently it was just a convoluted filler episode to help Moffet stroke his own ego. It completely ignored the middle (Danny's childhood) by telling us that we were all scared children and still are in some way. With the longevity of the Doctor's lifespan you'd think he'd deal with all of this well before meeting Clara, wouldn't you?
This episode should have been renamed: The Doctor forgets chameleons
I thought this story was utterly tedious. Love your review!
Talking there being a general consensus regarding anything Doctor Who related is an exercise in futility at best, outright insanity at worst.
i almost forgot to watch this today
Ive got no problem with there being no monster, but if that was what they were going for then what was under the sheet? Significant plot point left in the dust.
what was knocking on the door? BUT subjective some people like shit writing so that makes it not shit writing.
The whole concept of this episode is that nobody will never know what was under the sheet or what was knocking at the door. In the episode itself it's specifically stated it could have been just another child pulling a prank on Rupert and the knocking probaply was the metal deforming due to the low temperatures. The whole message of this episode is that it ultimatly doesn't matter what it was because it's ok to be afraid of it either way. It's honestly sad seeing so many people not getting the message behind it (which is fine by itself) but then saying it's just shit writing even though it really isn't.
but i like your videos D: dont listen to those tumblr fangirls! they are the same people thay say capaldi is "too old" for the doctor.
JamesPlaysGames95 lol, it's not about to stop on account of that :) I just felt immaturity would be more suitable for this one in particular
*****
It certainly made it more entertaining. :)
I remember back in 2013, I saw a comic where a stereotypical fangirl says that Twelve is too old, and then One complains at her.
That's a great idea!
Maybe we just don't know if somethings perfect at hiding because it's perfectly hiding.
I can't remember much of listen, just that it was, hyped up loads, but was actually a bit naff
Mishears part of the video) Immature poems? I know just the child..well, fictional child but still. Anyone guess who I'm referring to?
i thought it was a 15 minute idea stretched out over 45 minutes. i am surprised at your reaction i thought what they did with clara in this ep would get your goat
Did anyone else see in the Adventures of Fearmam bit:
Marvel as he cowers etc. Marvel get it?
Soooo, Moffat's really a Pokemon?
Also, anyone who doesn't agree with me is a big stupid head!!
I don't think you understand. Pink was wearing a pink shirt.
You can always make your own science fiction series
Genius review man
To be honest I recon that in the video you should've given us a hint on how the kettle moved, I would've preferred it as it's already started some controversy, I personally think that you attached string to it, my friend however, is constantly banging on about how it was a magnet or the kettle has a mind of it's own and started moving due to boredom of where it was placed, I mean, scenery can get boring after a long time so it's good to position yourself somewhere else like the kettle did to spice things up. I still think that string did it though because reason.
what we see of the young doctor, he looks nothing like hartnell when he was young (cause the doctor as a child is the 1st doctor but young wow)
0:00
This episode didn't matter because they hardly spoke about the concept from the start and I don't care about Clara or Danny so what happened to them was meh.
OMG, that was hilarious.
Your description about how fans act over things is basically considered normal in Godzilla fan-culture more than any other fan-culture.
I didn't even realize anyone liked Listen... I personally don't understand why anyone would like it... now I'm confused
This is part of why I didn't do a review of it. That and I don't really know what to think. And since not a lot of people watch me I can get away with it. :P
***** Same
You deserve more veiws dude. This was amazing
Compare listen to Blink. I think we can agree that Blink is a 10/10, the quality of Listen! Wasnt nearly as of Blink.
I hate this episode. the question "why is their no such thing as perfect hiding' make the doctor like a morn. There is such a thing as perfect hiding, octopi can change shape color and texture to hide. The premise makes no fucking sense and it gets even worse when the twist is revealed. It feels like they ran out of money and couldn't make a monster. It makes the doctor look like a fucking delusional madman who things the boogie man is real. It set up this monster and ends with this fate out that makes the whole episode retroactively make no fucking sense. If you think this episode is perfect I would love to hear why because I don't see what you see. I think if you like this episode your standards are low, please persuade me otherwise.
Chameleons don't camouflage tho
...are you stupid... IT'S THE THING THEY'RE "FAMOUS" FOR!!!!!
no Stuart. Go grow a micro garden. It's much more rewarding
Yes! Moss!
Finger banging the TARDIS is so wrong. :)
that was brutal
I really like it but it is overrated. I would put it in the ‘Quite Good’ category.
omago how can yo not lik dis epsod the twist at da end iz so mush good!
It pisses me off when people put it above episodes that are great and I will rewatch over an over I am too scared to watch Listen again after I watched it back in 2014 so I might like it but I have no interest in watching it again. But that's their opinion so it's fine.
i agree with you, but man this video was boring.
spending half the video bitching about the fandom didn't help the video.
8 out of 10 for that picture of Moss on tree!!!
Stop being so fucking objective!!!! Thats 10 out of 10 in my books.
Giggle....Just joking but the pic is still 10 out of 10 :)
Im greatly enjoying this season of Dr Who, more so than in a while :)
May I say that you sound like Neil from the Young Ones. Bugger it, I said it anyway!!! Giggle :)
Avebury Eddie Lol, had that one all my life :) strangely not on my channel thoughYeah, I am glad lots of people seem to be really enjoying season 8 so far, I'm still kinda unethusiastic about it, hence the cynicism, but live and let live, its all opinion, and obviously as a massive fanboy I do want the show to do well with people
see i dont feel u shud feel expected to review every new episode man, I love the show whatever youre talking about, if ever theres an episode u dont wanna review just make a video about another topic in DW,
The Dev lol, cheers dev :) yeah I know, but that's the thing I kinda did wanna do a straight review, least at first. I still sorta think it would be worth discussing Listen seriously, it does do a lot of stuff I find interesting and encouraging but after loads of redrafts and reading a wide range of reactions to it: this was the only video I could possibly be half happy with this week. Its good to know to know I got ya hooked though, cheers :)
***** Actually the Blowfish apperared in Torchwood :)
***** aye course man i love watching people be cynical and funny about things I and they are passionate about, ive spent many nights with a few grams of green and watched your doctor who vids; and Hagan's and Nash's. For some reason a lot of story ideas come to me when im doing this.
***** as for that Listen review, how about you leave it for a while, like until after series 8 is over then it will be something to talk about while no new episodes are out and by then im sure youd be able to settle on a good script. not that anything was wrong with this one, i enjoyed it but i feel the childish observation thing worked better in smaller doses (like in 50 shades) rather than that be most of the review.
The Dev Yeah, I get what you mean, I have an annoying habit of overdoing things and an obssessive attitude when it comes to "completeness". I have been thinking lately maybe I should just sit back and see whether the rest of the series'll provoke a reaction from me instead of expecting it to
Waow!
Hilarious
Man, as an American woman who's only vaguely seen Dr. Wibbly Timey Wimey Ball I'm honestly very intrigued by the Fifteenth Doctor and by extension how this whole franchise works.
Still better than anything in the current season.
Stubagful: _Acts as if there is something he can ruin in the dogshit of “Listen”_