I had the pleasure of going into an old gold mine in northern California. While I only went in about 100', it was incredibly oppressive and I was certainly happy to get back into the fresh air. Being in total darkness is classic horror, I think we are hardwired to fear the dark. For a party that ends up in a dungeon with no light, I collect the map and make them feel their way out. Classic Theater of the Mind's Eye situation.
Went to Linville Caverns, NC. They told us a story about a young man exploring the cavern a long long time ago. He went in with some kind of light but it went out. Stumbling in the darkness, near its bottomless pools, he broke his leg. It took him 3 days to crawl out and he was lucky at that. Later they discovered that he had only been in about 100 feet.
Darkness is a very underutilized mechanic in RPGs. Consider the simple mechanic of attacking the players from outside the range of their torches; arrows from the dark, etc. That stealth archer in the group is suddenly at a serious disadvantage. They'll need to throw their torch or light spell object towards where they think the opponent is, and then they don't have a light source on them anymore. A conundrum like this forces the players to think tactically, and can be a lot of fun.
The Conan story, "Rogues in the House" has a good scene of Conan working his way through a sewer without light with his slow movement and heightened senses. Additionally, The Black Hack has a 'Panic!' table for when the lights go out. Failing a save may cause a character to do anything from 'shake it off' to having a heart attack...
IF dark places and brtual stuff like that is your jam, give The veins of the Earth a peep. Hell give it a peep anyway because the actual setting is cool as hell
The Tombs of Atuan is a great resource to tap into for descriptive material. The older/oldest edition of tunnels and trolls doubles the monster rating if the party loses its ability to see.
I tracked torchlight with d6s as suggested in 5 Torches Deep. Every turn, the die would increase by one until we get 6. Then its time to light another torch. After a while, I realized that it was causing a little amount of stress in some of my players. It's probably because the dices where a constant reminder of how precarious their light source was and how little time they had to return "safely" to the surface. Needless to say, it worked better than expected and I strongly recommend you try it.
Also, the A4 module from the Slavers series (one of my favorite adventures) has the PCs in the dark for much of the session and includes some good reminders on the limits of infravision. I refer to it mentally when reminding my players of what the dwarf can or can't discern as they creep out beyond the reach of the torches.
Love the video. I was recently implemented a new random encounter system to my game. I want to keep combat rare and deadly, and encourage role playing. I wrote out about 15 paranoias on index cards to be handed out to characters on a “failed” random encounter check. Each index card had a small xp value associated with role playing it. To encourage the player to do it, but the paranoia is completely optional. Since the xp value isn’t much it doesn’t feel like they must RP.
I don't know if you write a script for your videos or not, but the way your videos flow keep me glued the whole time. And this is coming from someone who has trouble maintaining to pay attention for short periods of time! Back in the olden days of youtube, not only could you rate a video 5 stars but there was a dedicated gold star "favorites" playlist that each account had that would notify video owners if their video was favorited. When that was changed I've made my own youtube playlists/folders for organization, but this video would absolutely get 5 stars and a favorite from me. Sadly the best I can do is Like and comment!
I specifically use dungeons and delves in my game TO be survival horror. There are a number of activities that can only be done in a Place of Safety, or are strongly penalized if you aren't. Pretty hard to rest fruitfully when you're lost in the dark with no food! And you actually need these things to make a lot of stuff in OSR or any game that wants a survival element to matter. A TTRPG without time tracking or resource tracking really can't do horror in a meaningful way, because you need that build of dread for it.
I like to use real time as much as possible, like when PCs are mostly seeing looking, talking, deciding, and trying simple actions. Even short, simple combats. But disconnect from real time for complicated combats, travel, rest, and nightly camp.
This is such a great video!! Truly an important lesson to bring back all the lost elements of real DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS!! And that picture of you as a Norseman at the end is amazing XD
I think no attack is a bit too much. You can't see their shadow, but you can definitely hear the efforts of creatures trying to attack you, the clanking of armor, the stomping of feet, etc. It's impercise, so a penalty, but I'd treat it as attacking an invisible creature; attacking where you think it is.
Just rewatched this as I think through the classic dungeon crawl aspect of D&D play. For me, I cannot imagine a dungeon without darkness. It is the setting, mood and environment, darkness is the danger. Combined with time, light is the resource that affects the play and makes the game. The notion that everyone sees in the dark and managing light is silly, is just silly to me. A dungeon is more than just a dark forest, a ruined structure or a night outside, its limted paths and darkness make it. Tracking torches and light is that detail, like mapping that opresses the characters (and player) to feel trapped, threatened and in danger every turn as a constant tug between going deeper or not weighs. For me a dungeon well seen or lit would be silly. Thank you for focusing back on something so basic to the experience.
I actually watch your videos for the same reasons I watched Bob Ross videos when I was 18 laying stoned on my couch after a heavy weekend…it simply calms me down and even tho I am not sure what exactly …I have the feeling of learning something useful 😊
One of the best OSR sourcebooks on this topic is Veins of the Earth for Lamentations of the Flame Princess. It's take on darkness and everything relating to it is damn genius. It also has a great take on organic cave formation.
Veins of the Earth. This is easily one of my favorite books out there. It's a horrifying setting where light is currency (has an equivalent in Silver Pieces for ease of use), with fantastically unsettling art by ScrapPrincess, and the descriptions are dripping with atmosphere. Darkness is to be feared, and banished whenever possible. Should you find yourself in a cavern without light, you may just no longer be alone.
I think it was in watching this video that I seriously thought about this as opposed to the other times it has come up to me but never seriously. You really can stretch a game/dungeon/module by making ppl think about torches etc. Should be a given. To some extent it's pretty obvious compared to modern editions where light is a cantrip. And I definitely don't mean any of this sarcastically. I played w my in laws this holiday and we took a decent bit for granted just bc they were either inexperienced or used to 5e. I rolled dice for torches and there were no breaks etc. And I realized that when 'keeping strict time records are essential ' or whatever the quote is is actually inherent to the tone. Coming off the heels of Halloween and watching the ruins etc that slow pace and making ppl work for is really why old school is so great.
Great title! Very cool topic and very important to use every aspect of the “dungeon” to add to the encounter. Whether it be something exotic like lava or an energy field, a great height or narrow space, or something so basic but perfect like darkness, qualities like these make encounters exciting and memorable. There is a reason after all why man is afraid of the dark.
Love this vid. It's the one that made me subscribe to the channel. Dungeon crawling has not in in my repertoire to run but with this advice - it's now on the table. On another note, what mic you use? I am sure it is more than just the mic. Your voice is great! Clear and tonally hypnotizing.
It's no fun to be in complete darkness. Even the flick of light from an empty Bic lighter is a heartening thing. After running out of torches and lantern oil one time, I invented the "Continual Light Flashlight". It's a tube with a small hole in one end. Take an arrow and cast Continual Light on the arrowhead. Insert in tube. Then a cap for the other end with a string tied to the tube. Open the end and it's a flashlight. Slide the arrow up and it is like a lantern. And in a pinch you can slide the arrow out and shoot it far ahead or at a monster. My DM gave me some Xp's for making that up.
Hi Daniel! Thanks for making this video! Ive also thought about this quite a bit. I wonder if there is a way for the loss of light to result in a certifiable bad scenario for players where its just not worth the risk. Your idea of treating it like the blindness spell and losing the ability to attack is sound and thats terrifying if you're in darkness and surrounded by enemies. I haven't kept track of time like this before and I worry how easy it is to implement in the moment at the table. I am willing to give it a shot! On a side note, have you seen the usage dice system in the Black Hack? I think its a rather creative system that could possibly work for light source tracking too. If torches started at say a d6>d4>1 and you downgrade on a roll of 1 or 2. Every 10 minutes is a roll. Curious what you think! Appreciate your work and thanks again!
Great video as always! Resource management, including light, is such an important part of the game. I'm running an OSR game for a group that is accustomed to more modern versions of the game that tend not to emphasize these aspects and it can be a hard sell sometimes. The way you describe it could really help get them on board. That time tracker sheet looks like a very handy document as well. You mentioned providing a link, but I'm not seeing it. I would definitely utilize it.
This sounds very interesting! I would so like to see this in play as an example rather than the theory to really absorb how to use darkness properly in this context.
Heck, riding my bike through a hiatus of street lights in the night is already survival horror for me - you never know when you're going to run into some obstacle like a badly parked rental scooter and fly straight over the handlebar. I find that in my table people are quite logistic in terms of supplies including lightsources, meaning they are not likely going to run out or turn up unprepared. In barrowmaze I have used the barrows mentioned in the Fellowship of the Ring as an inspiration. In those barrows, the undead made even torch and lantern light wane and wither first into dimness and then into darkness. Especially wraiths do this in my games. Its not quite like normal magical darkness which is kind of on/off button for photons, its more like an evil aura these creatures have, that turns of lightsources in three turns, forcing the players to finish the battle quickly or flee.
One problem I can potentially see with players being primarily responsible for tracking torch usage is, even if you're confident nobody in your group would intentionally cheat, I feel like that could introduce a degree of concern into the back of your mind that you really don't need. Especially because, from their perspective, it *would* be easy to forget; it's something that's passively burning down as they do other things. As opposed to something like arrows or other ammunition, cuz with that it's something you can just put a tally mark every time your character gets to shoot--it's the thing they are *actively* doing that consumes the resource versus the mere passage of time in the background.
I think back to the days of Gameboy Colour Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow version, when I would foolishly and daringly try to navigate Rock Tunnel without Flash. it's a totally different experience in total darkness than with light.
skerples from the coins and scrolls blog uses a monster called the grue which is a batghoul that lives in darkness and waits for you to extinguish your last light, and then it kills you! I like it
This doesn't nessicarily fit Survival horror-wise, but the way Dakest Dungeon handles the level of torchlight kinda reminds me of this. The lower the light, the higher the stress the party takes, but at the same time, surprise is far more likely to occur for both sides, and critical hits are more likely for both sides as well (I assume because it's harder to dodge in pitch blackness)
Not being able to attack would be a poor answer in my opinion. It is very yes/no and players naturally would be confused or frustrated by their inability to at least take a stab on the creatures who are now attacking uncontested. Pathfinder 2e has flat checks you have to roll to see if you even get to make an attack roll, that's been my favorite so far of different systems. A creature hidden from you requires a DC 11 flat check, so you roll to get an 11 or higher (obviously you can just adapt the numbers and mechanic as needed). Hidden in this case means something you can't see but you know approximately where it is. Undetected would be something that you might know or suspect is around, but are not even sure where it is. That's still a DC11 flat check, but of course the DM doesn't tell you where the monster is, so you are just guessing and could be swinging at air, you don't get to see the dice rolls in this case. Could even use higher flat checks, or just use a completely different mechanic, but my main point remains that not being able to attack at all leaves you with a situation where players feel helpless (not necessarily a dealbreaker), but I would argue in a way that feels frustrating and does not align with what we think of when people are fighting back in a bad situation.
Looking at that turn tracker sheet, there seems to be an error in it. If each small box is a 10 minute turn, and each large box is an hour, then each complete row represents 4 hours. However the descriptions are in 3-hour chunks (5-8am, 9-12pm, 1-4pm). You should either remove a large column so that there's only 3 hours in each row, or change the descriptions so that it describes time in 4-hour chunks (eg 5-9am). Oh I see what's been done now. There's an hour missing between each description. That's an unusual way of describing the passage of time. The descriptions should really be 5-9am, 9-1pm, 1-5pm etc.
Is it just me or I can't find the link to that time tracking sheet? I think tracking light is missing in my game, especially after watching your video, which was great btw, thanks, and a tracking sheet like this could help a lot.
I like your idea of fighting in the dark with your back against the wall. What I might do is let them attack immediately after the first melee attack that misses them, with a penalty (-2 to -5 or roll twice take the lowest).
Maybe try 5e hardcore mode? It’s not OSR but is a bit more streamlined and “deadly” - that being said I would not suggest they should “move” to OSR. Just run a few one shots in something like Swords & Wizardry and see if they like it. If so then change. Asking a group to jump ship to a completely new system is rarely easy unless they are not having fun in the current one. The main question I would have is why do you want to change?
Anyone love Star Wars...Kessel, from the book Star Wars Jedi Search, *SPOILERS*.. Black caverns and tunnels even through water filled with crawling things that cling to you, all in search of Glitterstim spice as crystal fibers that are photoactive before being consumed. Rather dangerously, the use of Glitterstim allows mind reading...Which raises questions about various parts of Star Wars if this is factored in. Also watch out for Bogeys that fly through the tunnels as rare flying lights made of energy....And *SPOILERS* watch out for Energy Spiders made of pure glitterstim, spreading their webs of the drug and spice to catch the light sources and perahsp even the very consciousness of the Bogey itself...
I do like Usage dies for lighting.* it adds a little bit of randomness to when the torch is not going to be usable. I would probably lower the die only on a 1 instead of 1-2 on normal instances, saving 1-2 for more extreme circumstances. Starting D6 for torch and D8 for Lanterns seems good to me. note that this does lead to instances where a torch can go out in two turns.... so might be better to just give the light for a little bit before starting to call for them. you could also allow tries to relight a current torch/lantern in which case I would say roll the die of fate*.... 4+ you can with a D4 usage (perhaps it flickered out prematurely) but watch how fast your characters try to get it going again if there is something stalking them just outside of the light range. it all depends on how important to your table's story you want to make light. you can make it important with the above... you make it crucial/central to story... with turn by turn tracking. *(for those that don't know what a Usage Die or the Die of Fate.... some games use these for certain things. Usage typically to make it so you don't have to super track expendables... what ever the starting die is roll when called for and on a 1 (or 1-2) reduce the die by one step... once this happens on a D4 you are out of what ever that item was. the Die of Fate is a D6 that you roll when the GM calls for typically 4+ good for players, lower is bad... you can also run it on a scale so the higher the better, the lower the more detrimental. )
The move "Pitch Black" was a really good representation of the dangers and oppressiveness of darkness.
Indeed!
I had the pleasure of going into an old gold mine in northern California. While I only went in about 100', it was incredibly oppressive and I was certainly happy to get back into the fresh air. Being in total darkness is classic horror, I think we are hardwired to fear the dark. For a party that ends up in a dungeon with no light, I collect the map and make them feel their way out. Classic Theater of the Mind's Eye situation.
Cool
Yes!
The things that used to eat our ancestors largely hunted in the dark
@@Giles29 ...and hide in the dark when there is light. Don't look under the bed! : )
Went to Linville Caverns, NC. They told us a story about a young man exploring the cavern a long long time ago. He went in with some kind of light but it went out. Stumbling in the darkness, near its bottomless pools, he broke his leg. It took him 3 days to crawl out and he was lucky at that. Later they discovered that he had only been in about 100 feet.
"The Dungeon hates you." It weaponizes the Darkness.
For sure
Darkness is a very underutilized mechanic in RPGs. Consider the simple mechanic of attacking the players from outside the range of their torches; arrows from the dark, etc. That stealth archer in the group is suddenly at a serious disadvantage. They'll need to throw their torch or light spell object towards where they think the opponent is, and then they don't have a light source on them anymore. A conundrum like this forces the players to think tactically, and can be a lot of fun.
For sure
The Conan story, "Rogues in the House" has a good scene of Conan working his way through a sewer without light with his slow movement and heightened senses.
Additionally, The Black Hack has a 'Panic!' table for when the lights go out. Failing a save may cause a character to do anything from 'shake it off' to having a heart attack...
Nice! Is that in 2nd edition? I have those books from the kickstarter
@@BanditsKeep yes. I also make use of the usage dice, but haven't specifically used them for light sources
IF dark places and brtual stuff like that is your jam, give The veins of the Earth a peep. Hell give it a peep anyway because the actual setting is cool as hell
The Tombs of Atuan is a great resource to tap into for descriptive material. The older/oldest edition of tunnels and trolls doubles the monster rating if the party loses its ability to see.
That’s a cool mechanic
In 1E light sources are seen from twice the distance that the light source emits
Something to think about
Makes sense
This rule would've saved me so much trouble in 3.5-5e
I tracked torchlight with d6s as suggested in 5 Torches Deep. Every turn, the die would increase by one until we get 6. Then its time to light another torch. After a while, I realized that it was causing a little amount of stress in some of my players. It's probably because the dices where a constant reminder of how precarious their light source was and how little time they had to return "safely" to the surface. Needless to say, it worked better than expected and I strongly recommend you try it.
Cool
Also, the A4 module from the Slavers series (one of my favorite adventures) has the PCs in the dark for much of the session and includes some good reminders on the limits of infravision. I refer to it mentally when reminding my players of what the dwarf can or can't discern as they creep out beyond the reach of the torches.
Nice! I have that somewhere, I’ll have to take a look.
Love the video. I was recently implemented a new random encounter system to my game. I want to keep combat rare and deadly, and encourage role playing. I wrote out about 15 paranoias on index cards to be handed out to characters on a “failed” random encounter check. Each index card had a small xp value associated with role playing it. To encourage the player to do it, but the paranoia is completely optional. Since the xp value isn’t much it doesn’t feel like they must RP.
Interesting idea!
I don't know if you write a script for your videos or not, but the way your videos flow keep me glued the whole time. And this is coming from someone who has trouble maintaining to pay attention for short periods of time! Back in the olden days of youtube, not only could you rate a video 5 stars but there was a dedicated gold star "favorites" playlist that each account had that would notify video owners if their video was favorited. When that was changed I've made my own youtube playlists/folders for organization, but this video would absolutely get 5 stars and a favorite from me. Sadly the best I can do is Like and comment!
Thank you so much for your kind words, I don’t use a script, just some bullet points to refer to.
I specifically use dungeons and delves in my game TO be survival horror. There are a number of activities that can only be done in a Place of Safety, or are strongly penalized if you aren't. Pretty hard to rest fruitfully when you're lost in the dark with no food! And you actually need these things to make a lot of stuff in OSR or any game that wants a survival element to matter. A TTRPG without time tracking or resource tracking really can't do horror in a meaningful way, because you need that build of dread for it.
Makes sense - though Call of Cthulhu doesn’t lean hard into resources in my experience
@@BanditsKeep which version/edition are you thinking of specifically? I'd love to take a look
I like to use real time as much as possible, like when PCs are mostly seeing looking, talking, deciding, and trying simple actions. Even short, simple combats. But disconnect from real time for complicated combats, travel, rest, and nightly camp.
Cool
This is such a great video!! Truly an important lesson to bring back all the lost elements of real DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS!! And that picture of you as a Norseman at the end is amazing XD
Thanks 😊
Tjank you for this. I have been fighting with time and torches/lanterns, etc since i started gaming again.
You are very welcome
I think no attack is a bit too much. You can't see their shadow, but you can definitely hear the efforts of creatures trying to attack you, the clanking of armor, the stomping of feet, etc. It's impercise, so a penalty, but I'd treat it as attacking an invisible creature; attacking where you think it is.
I like using the dungeon roll from knave where torches can go out with the same roll that checks for wandering monsters.
That can be fun for sure - I prefer a fixed time as it allows for more planning/player skill to come into play.
The thumbnail for this video, with the Virgil Finlay image, works really well for this subject.
Thanks, I love Vigil Finlay - especially his weird stuff with planets and space etc
Just rewatched this as I think through the classic dungeon crawl aspect of D&D play. For me, I cannot imagine a dungeon without darkness. It is the setting, mood and environment, darkness is the danger. Combined with time, light is the resource that affects the play and makes the game. The notion that everyone sees in the dark and managing light is silly, is just silly to me. A dungeon is more than just a dark forest, a ruined structure or a night outside, its limted paths and darkness make it. Tracking torches and light is that detail, like mapping that opresses the characters (and player) to feel trapped, threatened and in danger every turn as a constant tug between going deeper or not weighs. For me a dungeon well seen or lit would be silly. Thank you for focusing back on something so basic to the experience.
For sure
Happy Thanksgivings.
Thank You! 🦃
@@BanditsKeep You are very welcome, thankyou for the content.
I actually watch your videos for the same reasons I watched Bob Ross videos when I was 18 laying stoned on my couch after a heavy weekend…it simply calms me down and even tho I am not sure what exactly …I have the feeling of learning something useful 😊
Ha ha thanks
One of the best OSR sourcebooks on this topic is Veins of the Earth for Lamentations of the Flame Princess. It's take on darkness and everything relating to it is damn genius. It also has a great take on organic cave formation.
It’s a beautiful tome to be sure
Veins of the Earth. This is easily one of my favorite books out there. It's a horrifying setting where light is currency (has an equivalent in Silver Pieces for ease of use), with fantastically unsettling art by ScrapPrincess, and the descriptions are dripping with atmosphere. Darkness is to be feared, and banished whenever possible.
Should you find yourself in a cavern without light, you may just no longer be alone.
Indeed
No spoilers… but for what happens underground when the light goes out, read Alan Quartermaine; King Solomon's Mines. Brilliant.
Ah yes.
Thanks for showing how you use the time sheet. I’m going to make some modifications t dev my own as a result.
As always, great video :)
Awesome!
I think it was in watching this video that I seriously thought about this as opposed to the other times it has come up to me but never seriously. You really can stretch a game/dungeon/module by making ppl think about torches etc. Should be a given. To some extent it's pretty obvious compared to modern editions where light is a cantrip. And I definitely don't mean any of this sarcastically. I played w my in laws this holiday and we took a decent bit for granted just bc they were either inexperienced or used to 5e. I rolled dice for torches and there were no breaks etc. And I realized that when 'keeping strict time records are essential ' or whatever the quote is is actually inherent to the tone. Coming off the heels of Halloween and watching the ruins etc that slow pace and making ppl work for is really why old school is so great.
Indeed
Thanks!
You bet!
Great idea to run the darkness. Establish the fear of not knowing and the inevitable clank against your shin by the unseen.
Yes!
I love the chart! That is fairly cool. I love dungeon crawl adventures.
Thank You!
Great title! Very cool topic and very important to use every aspect of the “dungeon” to add to the encounter. Whether it be something exotic like lava or an energy field, a great height or narrow space, or something so basic but perfect like darkness, qualities like these make encounters exciting and memorable. There is a reason after all why man is afraid of the dark.
For sure
Love this vid. It's the one that made me subscribe to the channel. Dungeon crawling has not in in my repertoire to run but with this advice - it's now on the table. On another note, what mic you use? I am sure it is more than just the mic. Your voice is great! Clear and tonally hypnotizing.
Thank you! The mic is an audio-technica AT2020. I use a revelator io24 to bring it into my computer as it’s an XLR Style mic.
It's no fun to be in complete darkness. Even the flick of light from an empty Bic lighter is a heartening thing.
After running out of torches and lantern oil one time, I invented the "Continual Light Flashlight".
It's a tube with a small hole in one end. Take an arrow and cast Continual Light on the arrowhead. Insert in tube. Then a cap for the other end with a string tied to the tube.
Open the end and it's a flashlight. Slide the arrow up and it is like a lantern.
And in a pinch you can slide the arrow out and shoot it far ahead or at a monster.
My DM gave me some Xp's for making that up.
Cool
This is why you should never let engineers play in your D&D game.
@@roberticvs not an engineer, just a carpenter.
Hi Daniel! Thanks for making this video! Ive also thought about this quite a bit. I wonder if there is a way for the loss of light to result in a certifiable bad scenario for players where its just not worth the risk. Your idea of treating it like the blindness spell and losing the ability to attack is sound and thats terrifying if you're in darkness and surrounded by enemies.
I haven't kept track of time like this before and I worry how easy it is to implement in the moment at the table. I am willing to give it a shot!
On a side note, have you seen the usage dice system in the Black Hack? I think its a rather creative system that could possibly work for light source tracking too. If torches started at say a d6>d4>1 and you downgrade on a roll of 1 or 2. Every 10 minutes is a roll. Curious what you think!
Appreciate your work and thanks again!
Not a fan of usage dice personally.
This is a great video! Going to apply a lot of your points into the barrowmaze campaign I'm formulating. Thank you!
Awesome, let me know how it goes, Barrowmaze has a great reputation
Great video as always! Resource management, including light, is such an important part of the game. I'm running an OSR game for a group that is accustomed to more modern versions of the game that tend not to emphasize these aspects and it can be a hard sell sometimes. The way you describe it could really help get them on board. That time tracker sheet looks like a very handy document as well. You mentioned providing a link, but I'm not seeing it. I would definitely utilize it.
here you go - www.patreon.com/posts/my-time-and-75039337?Link&
@@BanditsKeep Thank you very much!
Party in the dark. Roll wandering encounter. Result = Expensive torch salesman.
That would be epic 😂 reminds me of NYC - the second it starts to rain umbrella salesman appear out of nowhere
my darkness combat rules .. missiles only hit on 20, melee is done at disadvantage, and on a 1 you hit a mate (if possible) with either
Interesting
Great video!
Thank You!
This sounds very interesting! I would so like to see this in play as an example rather than the theory to really absorb how to use darkness properly in this context.
Sadly, I did not record my latest session of the Hateful place where they moved through dark spaces, hopefully it will happen again soon
@@BanditsKeep oh looking forward to it!
Cthuloid Bestiary is a good book to pull out in such situations
Good idea
Heck, riding my bike through a hiatus of street lights in the night is already survival horror for me - you never know when you're going to run into some obstacle like a badly parked rental scooter and fly straight over the handlebar.
I find that in my table people are quite logistic in terms of supplies including lightsources, meaning they are not likely going to run out or turn up unprepared. In barrowmaze I have used the barrows mentioned in the Fellowship of the Ring as an inspiration. In those barrows, the undead made even torch and lantern light wane and wither first into dimness and then into darkness.
Especially wraiths do this in my games. Its not quite like normal magical darkness which is kind of on/off button for photons, its more like an evil aura these creatures have, that turns of lightsources in three turns, forcing the players to finish the battle quickly or flee.
cool!
One problem I can potentially see with players being primarily responsible for tracking torch usage is, even if you're confident nobody in your group would intentionally cheat, I feel like that could introduce a degree of concern into the back of your mind that you really don't need. Especially because, from their perspective, it *would* be easy to forget; it's something that's passively burning down as they do other things. As opposed to something like arrows or other ammunition, cuz with that it's something you can just put a tally mark every time your character gets to shoot--it's the thing they are *actively* doing that consumes the resource versus the mere passage of time in the background.
For sure
I think back to the days of Gameboy Colour Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow version, when I would foolishly and daringly try to navigate Rock Tunnel without Flash. it's a totally different experience in total darkness than with light.
Indeed
skerples from the coins and scrolls blog uses a monster called the grue which is a batghoul that lives in darkness and waits for you to extinguish your last light, and then it kills you! I like it
From the old adventure text based computer game
Remember; those who find themselves in total darkness are likely to find themselves eaten by a grue...
True, very true
This doesn't nessicarily fit Survival horror-wise, but the way Dakest Dungeon handles the level of torchlight kinda reminds me of this. The lower the light, the higher the stress the party takes, but at the same time, surprise is far more likely to occur for both sides, and critical hits are more likely for both sides as well (I assume because it's harder to dodge in pitch blackness)
Interesting
Not being able to attack would be a poor answer in my opinion. It is very yes/no and players naturally would be confused or frustrated by their inability to at least take a stab on the creatures who are now attacking uncontested. Pathfinder 2e has flat checks you have to roll to see if you even get to make an attack roll, that's been my favorite so far of different systems. A creature hidden from you requires a DC 11 flat check, so you roll to get an 11 or higher (obviously you can just adapt the numbers and mechanic as needed). Hidden in this case means something you can't see but you know approximately where it is. Undetected would be something that you might know or suspect is around, but are not even sure where it is. That's still a DC11 flat check, but of course the DM doesn't tell you where the monster is, so you are just guessing and could be swinging at air, you don't get to see the dice rolls in this case.
Could even use higher flat checks, or just use a completely different mechanic, but my main point remains that not being able to attack at all leaves you with a situation where players feel helpless (not necessarily a dealbreaker), but I would argue in a way that feels frustrating and does not align with what we think of when people are fighting back in a bad situation.
Try fighting someone blindfolded 😊 - something like that can certainly work a very heroic game like pathfinder.
Looking at that turn tracker sheet, there seems to be an error in it. If each small box is a 10 minute turn, and each large box is an hour, then each complete row represents 4 hours. However the descriptions are in 3-hour chunks (5-8am, 9-12pm, 1-4pm). You should either remove a large column so that there's only 3 hours in each row, or change the descriptions so that it describes time in 4-hour chunks (eg 5-9am).
Oh I see what's been done now. There's an hour missing between each description. That's an unusual way of describing the passage of time. The descriptions should really be 5-9am, 9-1pm, 1-5pm etc.
If that’s how you prefer it, make the change, it works for me as is 🤷🏻♂️
Combat takes a whole turn. How do you handle wandering monsters if it's a combat turn?
They come the next turn - or in the middle of combat - depending on the monster
I see survival and economy as the bottom and top of the fourth pillar. The dungeon is definitely survival horror to me.
Awesome
Is it just me or I can't find the link to that time tracking sheet? I think tracking light is missing in my game, especially after watching your video, which was great btw, thanks, and a tracking sheet like this could help a lot.
my whole party has darkvision the warlock even got somthing called devil vision. as a DM i feel this just cuts out a whole aspect of the game
I agree
I like your idea of fighting in the dark with your back against the wall. What I might do is let them attack immediately after the first melee attack that misses them, with a penalty (-2 to -5 or roll twice take the lowest).
Good idea
Dungeon horror indeed!
They had better bring enough oil.
OSE has a similar chart to yours on their website.
Cool - the mechanic is from BX so that makes sense
Is the time tracker depicted only available to patrons?
I’m not seeing a link for it.
www.patreon.com/posts/my-time-and-75039337?Link&
Where is the link for discord..I'd love to play a game with you.
discord.gg/jvPhY8bRs6
I need help. My group loves 5e, what is an OSR system that is close enough to 5e that they will comfortable moving to?
Maybe try 5e hardcore mode? It’s not OSR but is a bit more streamlined and “deadly” - that being said I would not suggest they should “move” to OSR. Just run a few one shots in something like Swords & Wizardry and see if they like it. If so then change. Asking a group to jump ship to a completely new system is rarely easy unless they are not having fun in the current one. The main question I would have is why do you want to change?
Got a link to the Day Time Tracker?
It’s in the public posts on my patreon - link in the description
Twilight cleric go BRRRRRRRRRRRE!!!!
Twilight Cleric?
Title of the video sounds like a goth album just dropped.u😊
😂
This video gets a huge like and sub from me. Great content
Thank You!
Anyone love Star Wars...Kessel, from the book Star Wars Jedi Search, *SPOILERS*.. Black caverns and tunnels even through water filled with crawling things that cling to you, all in search of Glitterstim spice as crystal fibers that are photoactive before being consumed. Rather dangerously, the use of Glitterstim allows mind reading...Which raises questions about various parts of Star Wars if this is factored in. Also watch out for Bogeys that fly through the tunnels as rare flying lights made of energy....And *SPOILERS* watch out for Energy Spiders made of pure glitterstim, spreading their webs of the drug and spice to catch the light sources and perahsp even the very consciousness of the Bogey itself...
Neat, I’ve never heard that before - I guess I need to read some of the novels.
I do like Usage dies for lighting.*
it adds a little bit of randomness to when the torch is not going to be usable.
I would probably lower the die only on a 1 instead of 1-2 on normal instances, saving 1-2 for more extreme circumstances.
Starting D6 for torch and D8 for Lanterns seems good to me.
note that this does lead to instances where a torch can go out in two turns.... so might be better to just give the light for a little bit before starting to call for them.
you could also allow tries to relight a current torch/lantern in which case I would say roll the die of fate*.... 4+ you can with a D4 usage (perhaps it flickered out prematurely) but watch how fast your characters try to get it going again if there is something stalking them just outside of the light range.
it all depends on how important to your table's story you want to make light.
you can make it important with the above... you make it crucial/central to story... with turn by turn tracking.
*(for those that don't know what a Usage Die or the Die of Fate.... some games use these for certain things. Usage typically to make it so you don't have to super track expendables... what ever the starting die is roll when called for and on a 1 (or 1-2) reduce the die by one step... once this happens on a D4 you are out of what ever that item was. the Die of Fate is a D6 that you roll when the GM calls for typically 4+ good for players, lower is bad... you can also run it on a scale so the higher the better, the lower the more detrimental. )
That seems cool, but way more work for IMO almost no gain in fun