The LNER's experimental locomotive - The "Hush-Hush"
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- In this video, we take a look at the LNER's attempt to succeed where the LMS failed in the world of high-pressure steam
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Rev. W. Awdry had a galaxy brain, I finally get the insult Gordon took such offense to
Ikr
I thought they made it up specifically for the show, it's cool to know it was a "thing" :D
I'm lost, what happened with Gordon?
@@juphikie3559 In the episode with "Diesel's Devious Deed," the engine Duck is falsely accused of calling the other engines names. Apparently Gordon was a "galloping sausage" :) Here's a link: ruclips.net/video/qKb3lkOZVE4/видео.html
@@daffers2345 Its called 'Dirty Work' not 'Diesel's Devious Deed.' go stick the American Flag on your mobility scooter while buying Twinkies in Walmart you yank.
“Galloping sausage”
This made Gordon very cross
lol
This made Gordon very cross eyed.
Lmao
@Joshua W56 yes
@@combatking0 funni
"Duck called me a galloping sausage"!
Is that true duck
"I'm old square wheels"
Rusty red scrap iron
I only wish sir I came up with those names
@@rjharmonproductions If the dome fits
Gresley really has surprisingly low failures in his books. The man was a genius.
@barnabyjoy Sounds like he was an engineer, not a manager.
@@countluke2334 He was the Chief Mechanical Engineer of the LNER.
@@gregkiteos1936 I know. There is a comment missing I was referring to.
@@countluke2334 I hate it when that happens!
The only real “failures” he had were the Hush Hush and the P2’s.
My Great Great uncle [J.G.Eltringham] was one of the drivers on the Hush-Hush -he was not noted for anything but normal driving and only drove the loco because he was one of the senior drivers at Gateshead.
Is this true I don’t believe you! am I hearing things!? is name!?
@@Dynamo_11 Don't believe what? you've lost me [which is very easy to do]
“MOOOOOM! DUCK CALLED ME A GALLOPING SAUSAGE!!”
"RUSTY RED SCRAP IRON!"
"I'M OLD SQUARE WHEELS!"
Well Duck?
Well sir I.. re... I don’t really know
@@craigdallingproductions4430
Diesel: To think that Duck of all engines, sir. And to say such things, it's....
Gordon: Disgraceful!
James: Disgusting!
Henry: Despicable!
Diesel: I grieve terribly, sir, but know nothing.
He seems to be a "Thomas" worthy character!! Since his/her name is hush hush, I can imagine that he or she has a rather quiet personality
@@medenicaribovski9089 No this is not the retarded version of A4 the retarted version of A4 is idk what was it's name but it was and A4 look but on 4-6-0 chassie
Or moved very quietly
I've seen some people portray Connor or Caitlin as the Hush Hush.
I think that Rebecca may fit the label
@@primrosevale1995Connor would be the W1, while Caitlin is a streamlined Coronation class.
Shame the rebuilt loco wasn't preserved. Imagine working in that big cab!
@@medenicaribovski9089 Nah, she looked beautiful, along with the streamlined P2s.
@@medenicaribovski9089 wow you must be fun at parties mister
@@abloogywoogywoo don't bother with him,he hasn't touched grass yet
@@medenicaribovski9089 Jesus your very defensive
@@medenicaribovski9089lmao imagine being so sad and miserable that all you can do is beat down on someone's opinion about a *FUCKING TRAIN*
1:46 Gordon: (gasp)
Gordon’s mind: Something was said, not good. What was it? Don’t yell at Gordon! No, that’s okay. What is it? ‘Galloping Sausage’! (Gasp) They called you ‘Galloping Sausage’!
Gordon: HOW DARE YOU CALL ME THAT!!
Gordon you're still here? Sausage or not, you are slower than you look!
and what some people dont know, is that Union of South Africa's tender actually belongs to Hush-Hush
Correct. Its tender No. 5484 is attached to No. 4488 Union of South Africa.
@@abloogywoogywoo And 4488's original tender was converted to a water tender for Flying Scotsman.
@@ajshell2 Which I presume also still exists?
@@NoaZeevi yep,the water tender is with 4464 Bittern
@@medenicaribovski9089 who hurt you lol
The funny thing is about this locomotive due to its wheel arrangement of four leading trucks six drive wheels and four trailing trucks this locomotive would’ve been called a Hudson here in the United States after the Hudson type locomotives used by the New York central railway
Stop comparing things to America
@@raphaelsmithwick4363shush
It wasn't "high pressure steam" per se that didn't work - it was the "Water Tube Boiler" - many railroads tried water tube boilers but they were unsuccessful because they were hard to clean as locomotives use an open cycle and it was nearly impossible to provide perfectly clean water. Ships use a closed cycle where the same water is used by virtue of condensers.
The other related issue with boilers like that is water treatment, depending on where it operated, to avoid scale building up inside the tubes.
The water tube boiler worked very well. It continued in service for 24 years after the locomotive was rebuilt in a more conventional form. Dedicated tools were produced for maintaining the boiler, making sure the water tubes were clear of scale.
The engine as built had an issue which took quite some time to be identified. The pipe feeding steam to the cab manifold which fed injectors and so on was simply too small in Internal diameter to be able to supply the quantity of steam needed. No boiler is going to perform well if it cannot be fed with sufficient water. Once this miscalculation had eventually been identified things naturally improved.
The engine remained experimental, the bore of the h.p. cylinders was changed, the engine was set up to work in pseudo three cylinder form and the high steam temperatures did lead to some materials issues but in spite of testing being carried out no one found out how to drive the engine properly. There were clues in the test results but at the time no one picked up on this.
Gresley had wanted the engine to be worked with a high pressure cut-off of 70% but was persuaded by an influential academic of the time not to. Gresley however was right and his thinking was much in line with the developing ideas of Andre Chapelon - long cut-offs on the hp cylinders and adjust the output by varying the cut-off of the low pressure cylinders. It has been extrapolated that if 10,000 had been driven as Gresley originally thought it should have been (which was at odds with what he believed in his earlier days) and in conformance with Chapelon practice the engine would have been the most powerful steam locomotive in the UK by a substantial margin.
Gresley used to delegate to members of his team and many of them were very good but a better man than the responsible individual from 1933 was needed to to get worthy results from this project.
The NRM holds a dedicated file on this engine.
@@DeCasoU1 Nice information - thankyou. My knowledge is with U.S. made engines. We had few three cylinder engines with Gresley (e.g. the UP 4-12-2) valve gear. Gresley gear was a pain to adjust and most of these engines had the Gresley removed and a second Walschaerts or Baker gear added to one side to run the middle cylinder. American companies also hated that middle cylinder because of accessibility and the crank throw on the axel. Many tried water tube boilers but they just were not very successful with coal or bunker C oil because the outside of the tubes would coke up and were nearly impossible to clean whereas in a fire tube boiler a little sand would do the trick.
@@Hogger280 The LNER built Gresley engines retained their valve gear to the present day, only a few were experimentally rebuilt and this exercise was not repeated. Those responsible for keeping these engines running have little trouble with the valve gear. And we don't use Baker gear in the UK. Pity you couldn't resolve the water tube boiler issues, they open the door to much higher working pressures.
1:07 Gordon's thankfully forgotten third cousin twice removed
Great video! I believe this loco derailed quite spectacularly at Peterborough in 1955, renumbered at that time as 60700.
It is a shame the loco was not preserved, however the tender is currently preserved on a different engine.
That's right, the tender is now preserved on 60009 _Union of South Africa._
i received my model train version of 10.000 hush hush from hornby yesterday....and i am pleased to say that it runs as good as it looks.....quite frankly i'm chuffed
As a youth my greatest delight was to see the Cornish Reviera going through our local station under full steam when collecting train numbers
One note about the Yarrow Watertube boiler was that after it was removed when 10000 was rebuilt, it ended up being used at Darlington Works for pressure testing. The boiler was finally scrapped in 1965 (6 years after 60700 (Which was the BR Number for the W1) was scrapped.
I've just pre-ordered one of these for myself.
i'm waiting for mine too....:-)
Britain's sole Hudson! A number of American railroads attempted to utilize the same concept, but it never got beyond experimental locomotives.
The Delaware and Hudson (D&H) in the US, primarily in states of New York and Pennsylvania, under the leadership of Leonor Loree, experimented with several monstrous 2-8-0s (and one 4-8-0) that had up to 500 psi in the 1920-30s.
Though they developed approx a huge 80,000 lbs tractive effort, and could "couple to and pull out everything in the yard", the maintenance requirements went into orbit and they were also short lived.
Nobodys interested in America
This dude: *shows the galloping sausage*
Gordon: OOOH the indignity
yes gordon
the INDINGNITY
Two other railroads had high pressure engines,and they were the NYC,(4-8-4),and the B&O,(4-6-4),and the B&O,used a watertube boiler,in both cases,the engines,were considered experimental,and overall didn't work out that well! The PRR,had a steam tubine,[direct drive],and the C&O,had a steam- electric drive engine,as did the N&W,so these are footnotes on some other lesser known steam failures,as they were protypes,and never led to fleet use! The PRR,bypassed the problem,by going to electrification,and that along with the New Haven's,now constitutes the current North East Corridor,(finally extended to Boston,a New Haven dream,now fulfilled)! Quite a legacy,even in this day and age! Thank you for your attention ☺!
Mate this about British engines, keep your yank shit out of it
Gordon: Duck called me a "Galloping Sausage"!
James: ..."Rusty Red Scrap-Iron"!
Henry: ...I'm "Old Square Wheels"!
"But what happened when the LNER attempted to build a high pressure locomotive?"
LNER: *Loud screeching* WE HAVE A SHIP BOILER!
Went better than the LMS attempt
It was also known as 'The Ghost Streak' and many doubted it even existed. I saw it once in 1959, in the engine shed at Stevenage.
The key difference was that this was a water tube boiler, the opposite pattern to standard firetube boilers. These work fine in ships and power stations but turned out to be less well suited to steam locomotives.
A lot of Thomas story telling potential with this class.
My Grandpa went to see this after it had been rebuilt, as it was being displayed at King's Cross. I've also seen a 5" gauge model of it in rebuilt form, which has the same steaming problems!
Galloping sausage, rusty red scrap-iron, old square wheels
“Duck called me a galloping sausage!”
-Gordon the Big Engine
1:44 Gordon: "Duck called me a Galloping Sausage!"
Me: You should be happy, Gordon. That's the name of one of your relatives.
One who looked so weird and was a failure in the beginning
1:46 Me: You hear that Gordon?!
Gordon: Oh, the indignity!
Shame to hear it didn't do well. But love those nicknames, especially "Galloping Sausage"...since Gordon in Thomas & Friends thought Duck called him one.
Note: the Fury and Hush Hush were built the same year
Great vid ToT. Now we know the origin of the insult for poor Gordon.
Pegasus would’ve been an awesome name for the W1 ‘Hush-Hush’ Baltic, had the engine survived into preservation. I still say scrapping her was a waste of potential, especially if more W1’s were built and experimented on how to improve locomotives of such design, streamlined or otherwise.
Boiler's bulging round shape was "galloping sausage"
I wonder if there was a steam engine nicknamed Old Square Wheels.
The boiler came from Yarrows Shipyard in Scotstoun,Glasgow btw....
The limiting factor for the speed of a steam locomotive is the rate that cylinders can reciprocate, which passes on to the size of the driving wheels. That is why passenger steam trains had larger wheels than goods haulage, but goods haulage having smaller and more wheels had more tractive power. The theoretical advantage of HP steam locos was thermodynamic efficiency requiring less coal. The Hush Hush was designed to use 20% less coal than its equivalent express steam locos. That did not happen as hp steam proved to be too dangerous, in addition to unanticipated extra erosion on the steel piping requiring extra maintenance. The Hush Hush was run for a while but at typically express steam pressure of 220 psi. HP steam might have worked fine on ships, but proved to be a bit of a failure on locos.
I believe that in BR days the extra trailing axle gave persistent trouble with cracking of the rear end frame.
"Rusty Red scrap iron!"
I’m Old Square Wheels!
@@alexomega0622 Well, Duck?
@@terencewilliammckenna6121 I only wish sir, that I'd thought of those names myself if the dome fits!
@@matthewmurnaghan2583 (Sir Topham Hatt clears his throat)
Duck called me a galloping sausage" -gordon the blue engine
“Duck called me a Galloping Sausage!😡” said Gordon
Lol
This channel needs more clout
That really is a Galloping Sausage!
Hush Hush was designed per Gresleys thinking that he didint want it to be any more powerful than the existing A1 pacifics and he also got the design of the compounding wrong. If these faults had been dealt with it would have a powerful locomotive. there was nothing wrong with the boiler concept that a bit more work on getting the drafting correct wouldn't have cured.
"He called me galloping sausage!"
-Gordon
Galloping sausage? LOL!
Thanks for sharing the amazing history!
(Tue 23 Nov 2021 22h23)
why the f do you mentiom the date
Why did they extend the cab, rather than extend the firebox like on American locomotives?
idk ask the designers
My theory is that the marine boiler does not require an extended firebox (at least not this triangular type, it was basically the same it was just as shown on the picture built narrower in order to fit the locomotive chassi) because it is constructed in a different way with the firebox directly under the pipes. The reason some American locomotives had a much larger firebox was because they used Antracit as fuel and the firebox was especialy built for antracit, wich require a much larger room in order to reach the same temperature.
@@sheep1ewe That bit about the anthracite is only true for the camelbacks, which burned anthracite culm (literally the waste material that couldn't be sold economically). The Lima-style "superpower" designs used big fireboxes for increased steaming capability from the increased grate area of a larger firebox. It's the same idea as a 4-6-2, but with even more firebox. The logical conclusion of this was the 2-6-6-6 "Allegheny" simple articulateds which had a 6 wheel trailing truck for firebox support.
@@davidfuller581
Yes, i had to chack up the differense between the British and the American meaning of the word, that make a lot more sense to me than using higher grade fuel in those areas. Interesting history by the way. Except for parts of Germany i don't realy think there are any large scale paralells to that in Europe, at least not in the 1900s. (I don't know about Russia, but i can imagine they did in some areas)
@@sheep1ewe I don't think any European locos match the sheer size of the American ones. Maybe Russia, but nowhere else, I think...
What a very funny nickname for this locomotive 1:46
What's wrong with high-pressure steam engines?
LMS: [Dark Flashback]
LNER: [Regret for the experiment that did not go well as expected, but still did some good effect, and did served several works for the railway, eventually]
Speaking of locomotives that worked, but weren’t practical, let’s talk about the Virginian’s 2-10-10-2.
The Virginian 2-10-10-2s were very efficient and effective low speed heavy duty haulers in the mountain coal field service in which they worked.
The same could NOT be said for the infamous Virginian 2-10-10-10-2 Triplex w/ the last driver set under the tender. As tender load used up that set drivers lost traction and slipped excessively. Far worse was the boiler capacity that could not keep up w/demand and they ran out of steam routinely before getting to next station down the line!
@@kenhanks9620, you mean the 2-8-8-8-2?
@@MatthewChenault Touche! Got hung up on the number 10!
Several other roads tried putting drivers under the tender (one was NC&StL w/a 2-8-2+2-8-0 combo) that had similar results.
If course Virginian eventually solved its worst grade problem w/electrification then ultimately dieselization w/the Fairbanks Morse Trainmaster units (2,400 HP each I believe).
"Fury didn't work out so well'..
Understatement don't cover it......
Ta.
He called me a galloping sausage! Rusty red scrap iron, replied James. And he called me old square wheels!
Ahh, so the British Hudson. Nice
Love these !
The name hush-hush sounds quite cute.😍
Great video!
Looks like Gordon to me
Gordon: GALLOPING SAUSAGE!!! I have never been so insulted in my entire life!!
Oh nice, for once the algorithm gave me something I actually liked for a change!
Apparently the LNER predicted the “Galloping Sausage” name, not Diesel.
I find the Hush Hush to be one of the most interesting locomotives out there. It was a neat idea for an experiment, and it looks really neat. It’s a pity it wasn’t more successful though, as it would have been really cool to see multiple of these running down the mainlines. Out of curiosity, what is the music used in this video, I really like it.
It was a regular sight at King's Cross in my youth; 'the un-named streak'.
"Galloping Sausage?! Humph!"
As kids we called it the "Unnamed Streak" - "Streak" being the nickname for the A4s.
I am fucking crying at that name. Brilliant.
Background music: Strenuous Life - United States Marine Band
Thank you
The boiler still exists at Darlington
Diesel: Hey guys, look! It’s the Galloping Sausage!
Gordon: Really, Diesel?? I thought you learned your lesson a short while ago.
Diesel: No, Gordon. Look.
LNER W1 Class: Hi, I’m the Galloping Sausage!
I really wish they put it in a museum Such a unique looking train would be interesting to see
It's a locomotive, not a 'train'. A loco pulls a train, of wagons or carriages.
LNER was a commercial operation that had to earn its keep, money was tight in those years, assets were sweated back then too. Why keep a failure . . . ?
“Weirdo”
-this was made by the normal locomotive gang
Edit: also Gordon used to be an LNER loco and he was called “Galloping Sausage” later on
Me: ya hear that Gordon
Gordon: yare yare daze
I wonder what a steam locomotive designed with modern tools and techniques would look like
my theory of why this design failed is that in a marine environment water-tube boiler, the heat from the fire rises around the tubes and then goes up (if you look at pictures of Yarrow Boilers installed in ships, you can see that the exhaust rises straight up vertically and doesn't need to travel horizontally like in a steam locomotive). but those hot gases need to travel towards the front of the boiler in a steam loco, so you aren't getting enough actual heating area on the water tubes compared to the theoretical heating surface. Marine boilers on steam loco's have never been a success, either due to high maintenance or poor steaming ability.
Go and look at the file in the NRM.
@@DeCasoU1 why? does it prove me wrong? and what file? is it an LNER performance review? the steaming ability of the Yarrow designed boiler? Is it Nigel Gresley's thoughts on how he overcame some of the potential issues I stated?
@barnabyjoy Interesting insight from someone with a working model
@barnabyjoy Huh, so I had the right idea, just the wrong information. My theory was wrong. Thank you for this helpful information
What else inspired "dirty work" from duck and diesel?
Duck called me a galloping sausage - Gordon
The boiler and firebox just look like cellulite to me!
I can imagine Spencer or Mallard being jealous of "Hush-Hush"
Gordon:*sees this vid* a galloping sausage! *then Gordon killed dissel*
Would that boiler have worked better with a steam turbine engine?
The galloping sausage? Uhmmmm a hotdog fan would really be terrified of that naming on a big engine like this
Seemed like it would be impossible to see anything forward.
Gordon wasn’t a galloping sausage, 10000 was.
Very good
You have oversimplified the problems with steam engines and this boiler. The limit on the speed of a steam locomotive is most commonly the back pressure needed to drive exhaust steam from the cylinders and through the blast pipe. The faster you are going, the faster you need to get rid of the used steam. To get a higher flow through the exhaust pipework you need more pressure, and that pushes on the piston opposing the incoming steam. The faster you go, the worse it gets, and the power of the engine falls as its speed increases. The problem was never completely solved, but the most promising line of attack was big valves and/or poppet valves. The 9Fs were noted for their speed capabilities, with their large valves and small wheels.
The other problem was the boiler. It was based on contemporary marine and power station practice, but had enormous differences. To have built a boiler and attached it to an untested locomotive chassis was rather hopeful. Does anyone know if any stationary experimental boilers were ever built and tested as part of the development of this boiler?
I know that Gresley has many fans, but I have always felt that he was out of line with his contemporaries, and that Peppercorn went a long way towards bringing the LNER back into line with best practice elsewhere.
Cool essay no one asked for
@@davidantoniocamposbarros7528 Rude comment no-one asked for.
" doing its work with underwhelming results " That sounds ominous.. what did go wrong ? - The high pressure boiler being vulnerable to limestone in the feed water ?
Haha galloping sausage go brrrrrr
galloping sausage go humph
That boiler looks very, uh... phallic.
I heard reciprocating speed of pistons and the main wheel size are the limiting factors in steam locomotive speed.
They tried large drivers (as Americans call them), but that's impractical.
I would guess gearig could be an option for increasing speed.
ONE OF THE IDEAS OF HIGHER STEAM PRESSURE WAS HAVING SMALLER PISTONS AND VALVES
WOULD REDUCE RECIPROCATING
WEIGHT BALANCING DYNAMICS, ENABLING MORE SPEED!!
When it comes to the maximum sustainable speed of a steam locomotive, three things are considered: boiler pressure, heating area, and of course the diameter of the driving wheels and pistons.
For point #1, the Americans and Canadians proved that 300PSI is the standard for high-speed steamers. Afterall, legendary superpowered passenger locomotives like the Challengers, Northerns, and Hudsons all used 300 PSI boilers either in their as-built configuration or as an upgrade.
Point #2, the reason you need a 4 wheel trailing truck is because you need a large firebox to produce the heat at an adequate rate to keep that 300 PSI boiler pressure. The more heating surface, the more readily you can access the power of that 300 PSI boiler.
And now for point #3. There was/is this notion that the height of a locomotive's drivers determines the maximum speed. That is true.......to an extent. A 4-8-4 with 80 in drivers can easily attain and maintain 100 MPH without knocking itself to bits. Beyond 101 MPH, you will be losing rods, nuts, and bolts as you go along. And the piston diameter plays a lot into it as well. If you have a large piston diameter, your loco will turn into a mountain goat at the cost of speed. Pistons with smaller diameters tend to be the real rabbits of the railroad world.
me as a kid: "heh gordon saug"
me now: "ooh~."
“Why does every main engine on Sodor have to be some bizarre one-off prototype, does anyone else have a problem with that?”
- the funni Tugg with bad lucc
( well, maybe the Galloping SUSage was the reason for it, I don’t know, seriously why didn’t Awdry just make Gordon this? )
The inspiration for Gattor in Thomas and friends movie
Now if we got get the origins of 'Rusty Red Scrap Iron' and 'Old Square Wheels'.
"Galloping sausage". That's what she said.
As far as I can tell the most important quality for a high performance boiler is rate of steam production. In boilers of equivalent size their operating pressure would be an indicator of that rate. Was the hope that high pressure boiler would transfer heat more efficiently to the water? Otherwise I don't see why the higher pressure would be expected to help.
Maybe, unless they were also interested in thermal efficiency improvements, to reduce the amount of coal burnt, compared with conventional locomotive boilers.
The higher the steam pressure the greater force on the piston, allowing for smaller cylinders and pistons which means less reciprocating mass. Unfortunately, with only a single stage of expansion, efficiency would suffer as less heat is extracted per pound of steam.
@@billmoran3812 this is true, but to my understanding, full boiler pressure is not applied to the cylinders, at least in locomotives with regular boilers. Also pressure is only half the equation, steam must also be applied in a sufficient quantity. Doubling the pressure is all well and good, but if you only get half the mass of it does that actually give a benefit?
@@MainlyHuman Doubling the pressure but adjusting the cut-off to only allow half as much mass of steam would offer an advantage, if one could double the expansion ratio of the cylinder. The portion of the cylinder travel after the volume has doubled would yield the same amount of energy as had been yielded on each stroke at the old pressure, but one would add additional energy at the start of the stroke. Doubling the expansion ratio, however, would be essential, and I doubt it would have been practical for non-compound locomotives.
@@flatfingertuning727 I think that fits my understanding, for non compound locomotives at least, the mass of water converted to steam is what's significant, as you can extract that energy from different pressures by altering the cylinder conditions. I imagine that higher pressures work better for compound locomotives for the reasons you have above, and that is important because compounding (when enacted properly) can result in significant efficiency increases. It doenst make sense to build a really high pressure boiler if the cylinders aren't built to accommodate that though.
The most funni loco 😂
Galloping sausage? That was my nickname in highschool
"He called me a GALLOPING SAUSAGE!"
because one of your brother is called a galloping sausage