'Taboo Tartans and Celtic Fashion Etiquette' Exploring Perspectives 2.15.19 [Annotated]
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- This is the annotated version of the live show which aired on 2.15.19. Our topic this week was “Taboo Tartans & Tartan Etiquette”.
Are there some tartans you just should not wear?
What is a Restricted Tartan anyway?
Are the "Kilt Police" really a thing?
Content Guide:
01:20 What is a registered tartan? What is a copyrighted tartan and what is the difference?
8:04 Black Watch in Ireland as first example of a tartan you might not wear due to poor taste / sensitivity issues.
12:14 Erring on the side of caution and doing homework about your tartan. Be able to defend your choice.
13:52 Mixing clan tartans - wearing a tartan that is not your own
15:06 organization-owned tartans when you are not a member of the organization. Discussion of military tartans as not "official"
18:49 The restricted Balmoral tartan
20:19 - Masonic tartans
21:37 College Tartans
23:50 Kilt Police
31:15 Kilt Police and trolls online
23:25 How likely are you to get called out by the kilt police in real life? (as opposed to online). Ugly American at Edinburgh Tattoo example.
37:17 Cop vs. Mentor
38:05 Do Americans have to worry more about this, or less?
40:16 Having "Moxy" to wear a kilt i spite of possible blow-back
41:53 Context, location, encountering criticism at festivals
43:37 Why should anyone care what tartan you are wearing?
45:17 Is the problem of forbidden tartans and all that over-blown?
49:26 Clan display and other things you get called on - vetting your facts
51:34 Should I worry when I am getting dressed? The calculated risk.
54:28 St. Andrews Golf Course story
57:02 What is the one single faux pas you would say people must avoid?
58:44 Wrap-up How do you balance being a good ambassador and being free on a daily basis?
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I'm Scottish born and bred and I'm finding this vid on restricted tartans is taken up with overblown symbolism and seriousness by Americans. Yes there's tartans getting invented these days and they're corporate and to me these are just like a trade-mark. As for clan tartans, who in hell is going to sue someone wearing their tartan ? As for Irish being insulted by Black Watch tartan and presumably Royal Stewart, Prince Charles Edward Stuart, Hunting Stewart, Red Erskine, Hunting Erskine, Leslie, Douglas, HLI Mackenzie, Gordon, Mackenzie, Cameron of Erracht, Government 1A (Argylls), Murray of Atholl to name a few, as they have all being worn by Scottish regiments of the British Army. I suspect an average insulted Irishman would not recognise nearly all of those tartans. Lastly, my Grandfather was a corporal in the 6th (Perthshire) Btn Black Watch throughout WW1 (51st Highland Division). Even before the war, there was a significant detachment of Irishmen, from North and South, who would commute to to the battalion in Scotland, as territorial volunteers weren't allowed in Ireland due to fear of weapons being used by extremists (Protestant or Catholic). PS if someone was walking in Edinburgh clad entirely in tartan, it would assumed they were American as no Scots would appear like that. But I think Americans are the ones hung up about tartans, in Scotland we don"t care, it's all good. If I see someone in my tartan, I won't mind. Btw wear a kilt in a night club/disco in London, it will get a lot of positive female attention. It happened to me ! Good website !
Lachlan, you make many good points. What is often not mentioned is that kilt wearing is extremely good for our brilliant kilt makers, especially the smaller independent ones. Not forgetting the wool mills either!
It's more of personal thing. Americans do worry WAY too much over stuff like this but hey, to each his own. ME personally, I wouldn't be caught dead sportin' a tartan from the MacDonald or Cambell clans, but that is because I'm a MacLean. There are some things that are just in bad taste. Besides, it might make my ancestors roll in their graves.
I agree... You definitely get more attention with the ladies than anyone else. I think the majority of people in the states don't know the origin or history of military tartans and only look at it as just a kilt with a "Pretty" or attractive tartan. I would assume some in the UK and Ireland don't know the origin or history as well. Most probably don't care. When we went to Scotland last year, I wore my Davidson tartan kilt. There were several who approached me and asked me what tartan it was and some who actually 'Recognized' the tartan... It is definitely a conversation piece...!
Lachlan Gow - Well said and God Bless..Wished more thought the same..
clan tartans are 18yh centaury, post clan culture, if you like it where it
I own a forty year old Lamont kilt, that was given to me by the widow of a 96 year old man. . Although I have no family relationship with Lamont, the lady is pleased that the kilt is being worn rather than thrown in the bin.
Thank the Lord to hear that. It's a garment that if it fits, it's meant to be WORN.
I hired a Lamont kilt for my wedding. It is is my family Tartan. Very similar to the black watch.
Rattytatty, how very special. I'm happy for you.
You are blessed! My Dad’s family is Lamont, he had at one time ordered a Lamont kilt from a maker in Edinburgh, someone in the company absconded with the company funds and he never received it. However he did eventually recover the funds through the company’s dissolution.
it is alright to wear the tartan of another Clan as long as you wear it with Pride and respect for the Clan. Always be a good kilted ambassador and represent the Clan well! You will bring honor to the Clan.
my mother is welsh and I asked her if she could make a cilt for me when I was 15. We went to Cardiff into a Tartan shop (20 years ago) and chose a Tartan I liked most. She made the cult for me 100% properly. I have no Scottish connection and I have no idea what tartan it is but the fact she made it makes it 100% legit to me.
One of the cutest things I ever saw was when my boyfriend got his first kilt at a highland games. I'm a member of the New World Celts and 4 of the members were all around him at the booth dressing him. A tuck here, a fold there, adjust the belt and fix his socks. It was adorable.
It is always a highlight of my week to have the time to watch these extended videos from you. Your respect to each other and smoothly led conversation and knowledge about these extended videos makes me believe that I am there in person.
You gentlemen look really good in kilts. I wish it was the norm again! Beautiful
With the Black Watch concerns, what about clan tartans like MacKenzie, which is basically a black watch variant?
Would you advise wearing, like , Mackenzie weathered?
I am one of the guys that got kilt for a confidence builder, I am pretty introverted, but the few times I have worn it I could see the positive change in how I act. For the sporran and Utility Kilt thing, as a guy that always wears cargo pants you can ALWAYS use more storage. This is because your wife/girlfriend/partner or friend's wife/girlfriend/ partner will ALWAYS use your pockets for their stuff and the sporran is YOUR safe space for your stuff. Plus there are SOOOOOOO many tacky underwear cops where I live!!
Now you know how women feel.
Husbands/boyfriends/partners: "Well, you already have a bag, can you hold my..." that's why you see men carrying their ladies purses. They're holding their own stuff!
Could you please tell us what your kilt patterns are called with each video you make. Thanks
Thank you for the ongoing enlightenment and looking forward to purchasing my Masonic kilt on the horizon. Cheers! 😎👍
then you are a mason I presume?
@@patrickmchenry4916 O, I sure hope David is. Otherwise he's in deep trouble.
That's the one tartan you don't mess with.
Just a word of Caution David. (A friendly "Heads Up.") and this is meant with all due respect. Masons usually don't like it when outsiders or people not associated with their order presume to use their tartan which usually bears a "Restricted" status. Unless you are a Mason, (and I very much hope you are,) You could be letting yourself in for a lot of trouble, legal and possibly otherwise. If you are a Mason then full speed ahead and enjoy your new kilt. If you are not then you might seriously want to rethink your position. GOOD LUCK!
For those reading this who might have questions about non-Masons wearing Masonic tartans, as a Mason, I think the issue has more to do with the fact that if I see someone wearing it (and I recognize it as such), I'm likely to assume that they are a Mason, and will probably approach them as such. That could put us both in an awkward situation when I greet you as 'one of us' and then find out that's not the case. Similar to wearing a Masonic ring. Personally, I'm not going to be angry about it, but it's going to be a weird interaction when I strike up a conversation and then realize that we don't really have anything in common afterall.
@@hanzosbm1 / Indeed!º
South Australia here: I'm ex Australian Army and wear an Australian Army tartan, which I've owned for about thirty years. The tag on the inside of the kilt still contains it's NSN/NATO Stock Number, my Regimental Number, and my Name and Rank. When I go to a Highland Games or Hogmany, there's always people interested in what tartan it is, attempting to guess what tartan it is, and telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about, or I have no right to wear it. And yet my kilt has my Rank, my Name and my Number inside it next to the NSN! Ex Soldiers never argue. It's just pseudo-Scots know-it-all Australians who read "A" book on tartans that makes them "THE EXPERT" on all things tartan. And the last thing, genuine Scots never argue about it either. They are occasionally curious, but that's about it.
I live in Nova Scotia and I wear the Black Watch tartan kilt a lot among other kilts I wear tartans from the Province of P.E.I. , New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, ( great kilts by the way) and one from Outlander, other kilts include Royal Stewart (red) and Royal Stewart dress (white), Scottish National, Scottish Heritage, Irish National, I wear one every day rain or shine or snow and no one has complained, I'm 6ft 6in and 266lbs and I wear it like it's every day normal clothes for the last 12 years. I have three sporrans
bob wilson that’s really cool Bob I think your tartan choices are excellent. I am a big fan of the Canadian tartans I have recently moved to Canada from Scotland it’s really interesting I have seen more kilted people here Than home.
@bob wilson - I do WW1 reenacting impressions and the two i do most are the Cape Breton highlanders (early war canadian) and the 51st Highland Division Blackwatch.
You're a big guy. Why would anyone want to say anything?
Wearing tartans which do not belong to you is a definite sign of disrespect regardless of how tall you are.
@@wandah9468 my thought exactly.! Lol
I’m a Marine. I love seeing the leathernecks tartan on civilians. It’s just showing love; it ain’t the dress blue coat or anything. Rah
A Clan held a Gathering in New York.
The Head of the Clan travelled from Scotland to attend.
Upon arriving at the Venue, he was challenged by an American "Tartan Policeman" for wearing an Incorrect Tartan.
Later when invited On Stage for his Speech, he began by referencing the "Tartan Policeman" and Publicly correcting him on why he was wearing a Correct Tartan for his Clan.
That's too bad Michael... People are sometimes too insensitive. I understand the idea of wearing brown and black leather together. I've seen very high priced attorneys wear tan shoes with black belts and leather with high priced suits. Is it my place to correct their fashions? No, it's their significant others job that they should wear certain colors together ... Just ask my wife. She will tell you (Me) that certain color go together. But genuine wearing items that aren't rightly correct are personal taste. I've also seen it in Civil War re-enactments where we call these people "Stitch Counters". If you wear something incorrect or "Farby" in these events, there will be those who want to correct your impression or in model railroading, I call them "Rivet Counters". They actually know exactly how many rivets on certain boxcars or other pieces of equipment and comment on them. I like how Rocky and Eric mention that we should be "Ambassadors to the culture", and not to worry too much about taboo items and "Don't be a Jerk". Let's just have fun with our culture.
My wife and I are Living Historians and are currently working on developing kits for 16th-century Scotland. Research regarding the kilt appears to be fairly limited for the time period. I read "Before the Kilt" by Gerald Kelly and discovered that there is very little documentation of the kilt prior to c.1585. However, I also found an offhand description of Mary, Queen of Scots having been introduced to Highland "dress" on her tour of the Highlands sometime before the Battle of Corrichie. Do you have any evidence of the kilt having been used before this time? Thank you...
My stepfather had a green square tartan and he was Irish French. I’m Mexican so I thought he was a want be Scottish, now I’m sorry I didn’t believe him. He passed away at age 92 on 1991 . Thank you for the great information ❤️🙏👍👍👍👍👍.
I am an American with Scottish roots and Italian roots. I choose to wear the Fraiser kilt, my mother's side of the family. Her grandparents are related to the Fraiser Clan.
My Grandma McDonell/Mcdonald from North Uist was very upset by my Mom's friend who showed up to a family event wearing her Campbell tartan. Certain Scots in Vancouver Canada still remember Glencoe.
Blood is thicker than tears and your Grandmother is remembering the history and the pain of old wounds that came from the bloody battle between Clan Mcdonalds / Mcdonells at Glencoe. The Glen is still known as "The Valley of Tears" to this day because of it.
As a Grant, I personally would never wear Campbell tartan out of respect. I'm actually friends with a few Campbells, and they've said they'd never wear Grant tartan for the same reason. A little too much history there. Besides that, I think we should wear what we want. I myself would only stick to my own Clan and perhaps the Scottish National/other universal tartans, just to be on the safe side.
The problem with "remembering Glencoe" is that the memory is not accurate. The commander of the small unit in Glencoe was, indeed, named Campbell, but it was not a Campbell unit. Also many oif the troops refused to kill the locals, allowing many to escape. If you must remember something, remember the massacre was entirely planned in London and Edinburgh and was solely an operation of the British army under the orders of King William III and masterminded by the Secretary of State over Scotland and Lord Advocate, John Dalrymple, Master of Stair. In no way whatsoever can it truthfully be called a "clan" event.
The government troops in Glencoe have been blamed for turning upon their hosts and committing 'murder under trust.' The troops had not been invited into Clan Donald homes in Glencoe at all, but were forcibly billeted upon them as punishment for failure to pay Cess (property) taxes. The threats made against Capt. Robert Campbell of Glenlyon, by his superiors in the orders delivered to him just a few hours before the killings were severe in the extreme. If he failed to order the killings, he would be accused of treason for which the punishment was death.
Little mention is made of the story of how after 13 September 1644, Montrose and loyalists defeated the Covenanters at Tippermuir. Promising safe passage, to the defeated, including the Campbells , In December 1644, the Royalists rampaged through the Campbells' country. During the clan warfare Inveraray was torched and all armed men were put to the sword; approximately 900 Campbells were killed.
So, who were the victims?
@@thomaspatton4401 It’s the Glen of Weeping.
@@chugwaterjack4458 That’s not true.They were taken in and hosted by the clan.I agree with everything else you said though.
I wish that you guys would show more of your outfits you wear. I an interested in seeing sock/shoes with casual kilts. I know what I probably will wear, but I need more examples.
I am a Holt, my mother who died was a Yates. In honor of her memory, would I be able to continue to wear the Yates tartan to to honor my Yates ancestry?
They discussed this in another video ("Tartan Outfits for Young Girls") and they said it's fine for people to wear their mother's tartan. So I'm guessing they'd say yes; but you can watch that video and see if you think (like I do) that they're saying either guys or girls can wear their Mom's tartan.
I don’t know what anyone else would say about it but if I were wearing a kilt in remembrance of my mother and someone told me I wasn’t allowed to, I would probably hit them in the mouth. And I’m not a violent person, but that’s all the way across my line.
@@TheKyleMark Same thought.
'AcTuAlLy MoThErS CaNt PaSs On TaRT--' swift kiss in the face. What a shite "rule."
Yes definitely! what a great way to honor her memory! I wear MacLean (for my Dad) as "Patton" is a "Sept" of MacLean, and "Smith" or "Gow hunting" (for my Mom,) both who I have also lost. Together, we do them honor.
As an other example; Sean Connery, (The Actor) was Knighted wearing his Mother's Clan tartan, (MacLean Hunting) who was a MacLean of Clan MacLean.
May I ask what the tartan designs in the background are? They look really nice, especially the primarily purple tartan with matching tie.
Dark blue, I thought. Looks good, research and wear.
Those are samples of the many Tartans that the team at USA Kilts can make into Proper Highland wear with your measurements and order.
Robert Hall x Marine is the designer of the Letherneck Tartan. He called it the Marine Corp Tartan, but had to change it as the Corp would not accept it. Now worn by Marines over the world. Good on ya Bob !!
If he has an honorable discharge he IS a Marine. No x about it.
What do you do if your ancestors tartan has been discontinued?. My ancestor was a minister and fought at Culloden. They managed to get on a ship to the colonies.
You guys have done my head in in with this talk about kilts. Wear what you wear.
indeed. There is no such thing as a "clan tartan". It is historically inaccurate. and it is 100% based on a fantasy book from the victorian era.
If you want to buy a kilt you just go to a shop and buy whatever pattern and colour you like. This is how it always has been done throughout history.
Its just a pattern..... nothing more to it.
Great channel! I found you when checking the pronunciation and meaning of Gleann Dubh that I was hiking yesterday. I was stopped by a Scottish lady on a cruise who wanted to know which tartan I was wearing on a formal night. I’m Irish/Scottish heritage and don’t have a clan tartan, so just chose a modern tartan I liked the look of. Thanks for all this.
Welcome aboard!
When in the man’s defense who went golfing in Scotland and had a kilt, highlander culture definitely migrated over to the Americas after the Jacobite rebellion and so now placed like Canada and the States participate in wearing kilts and highlander games I would say more so than the Scots still in Scotland. But then again the scots in Scotland are not really being taught their history and traditions anymore and have almost all but forgotten the highlander life style because of heavy English influence
@@ffotograffydd English is the germanic peoples that came over. British refers to anyone on the main island.
@@ffotograffydd considering I’m a mix of English and Scottish and have spent a decent amount of time studying Germanic history, try me lad
@@ffotograffydd now I’ll admit, my Irish history has a decent hole from the 12th-15th century and anything in regards to their Bronze Age, but migration era to Victorian era, and my English history is pretty on point
@@ffotograffydd also lad. I wasn’t blaming the English of anything they haven’t done. There was a fair bit of warfare done by both kingdoms throughout history. But now a days, especially in the lowlands, there does seem to be a strong bit of English culture and influence on the life style of many Scottish peoples, especially reflected at children as they’re being taught in schools. Last I checked, maybe 20,000 scots speak Scottish Gaelic. It’s just recently making a revive. So if you think that’s blame on the English, that’s just you for I made no such accusations.
@@ffotograffydd you thought I was joking? You get rude at me, I will not belly up lad.
I have ordered this kilt! And will be proud to wear it!
Also from a Scottish perspective a lot of the issues about Clan tartans seem to me to be a more diaspora issue than something that is that big a deal here in Scotland, generally keep things within good taste but also acknowledge tartan is a very old form of decoration and has been evolving over time.
If it looks good then wear it. Within reason.
Agreed. But also wear it both correctly and respectfully.
I've only ever had one guy question me on the tartan I wear, it was a royal stewart, I'm Australian, he was Scotch, I think he was probing me to see how much I knew and if I just found one and threw it on, or if it had meaning to me.
Casual guy, not mad or anything, I explained that it isn't my clan, but until I can find mine its what I have to work with.
(Also my girlfriend at the time sewed it for me, because she's fucking lovely.)
We ended up talking shit for a good 10 minutes in a random supermarket aisle, would have stopped off for a beer if I had more time.
I hope he's doing well, god speed homesick Scotch lad!
AND this goes on for an HOUR!
I really Liked this very much since I try to learn all the time especially the Scottish culture. Now my question is about the display behind you both, what tartan is that ? I have the heritage of Scotland tartan that I like to wear in Scotland on my birthday, is it ok?
Thank you for a very educational video just stumbled upon your guys's videos today. Do you have a question for you how can you research your plans colors of tartans and your crest?
Hi there. Thanks for the interest! If you keep exploring, you'll find we discuss clan and tartan research pretty often. You can also look up names on our site: Just click the "Find your Tartan / Clan" button www.usakilts.com/galleries
Kilts are expensive! Very few men here in Scotland ‘own’ a kilt ...we hire (rent) them for the event. The tartans used by hire shops do not vary too much and tend to be the more universal tartans, but these include clan tartans (Stewart and McKenzie are popular) along with military tartans such as the Black Watch. The Scottish wearer won’t be too bothered about the representation etiquette. Until perhaps when they go to buy a kilt of their own, then they will choose a tartan which they feel represents their name or association. Great debate though :-)
As a citizen of all the countries mentioned in this video I can safely assure you that tartan is just gorgeous. The ancient tartans are less vibrant than the newer ones. That's all you need to know. Go buy yourself some tartan if you want it, and wear it how you like. Just enjoy it.
Also if someone from Norn Ireland makes a critical comment just say, "catch yourself on!" if they persist call them a "buck eejit" and leave.
Hi my question is...My heritage is from Scotland on both sides...My dads side doesnt have a Tartan..I have traced back to late 1600s and cant find one...My mothers side is descended from the Munros...Just looking for what Tartan would be appropriate?
My son wore a tie with our family tartan when he visited a town in Ireland. He was approached by an angry man that told him he should never wear that tartan there. He informed him that many of his ancestors were killed in a battle by our ancestors 300-400 years ago. You can't always know the history of everywhere you visit but sometimes you do have to be careful.
The only Tartan I would think the Irish might have a problem with is "Black Watch," but that is a universal tartan only some don't see it that way. What tartan was it did he wear?
@@thomaspatton4401 MacRae tartan.
@@marciastarr7393 It's true sometimes you have to be careful, especially with people like that who just can;t let an old grudge die. That is why you have to do your clan's research and find out who your clan's enemies are. Look up Clan MacRae on Wikipedia and usually it will be in the boxed area on the right side, below your clan crest nearer the bottom of the boxed area. Near where you see allies you should see enemies you may need to click on it to get the extended list though. Perhaps it would be better not to wear a tartan at all in Ireland seeing as how they don't really do tartanry there. After all it is Ireland and not Scotland. It's not really worth getting your ass handed to you over a neck tie, and over a grudge that has been held for 300-400 years, which should have been gotten over a very long time ago. He is a small minded Person though with very long memory. I'm only singling out the one you said approached your son, no one else. He is the only one that should be offended by this because he is the only one that is guilty for what he did! "Hate corrodes the vessel that contains it."
@@marciastarr7393 Suplemental; There is much beauty to see in Ireland, and Scotland for that matter, I hope to get there myself one day, but you have to mind the briars and brambles along the way.
Guys, I love your videos they are very educational, but! You keep refering to the UK or England in the same sentence as Tartan kilts. As a Nationalist and of Jacobean heritage I find it annoying. UK is a Four Nation, Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
I agree with what you said Drew.
I understand Drew. But you have to bear in mind. Yankees not good on geography.
Not all Americans are Fat. Nope some Americans are skinny, they are from Canada.
I ama Moffit by my grandmother, love the Tartan wondering since it was my Grandmother is it still considered in good taste.
My Father was a Bee and originated as McBee and McBeth, are those Tartans acceptable to wear.
I had bought a blackwash to wear to a saint patricks day party. Now questioning if I should? By this video they dont recommend it so just wear pants and use the kilt for another day? Thanks in advance
Nice videos guys and well presented, yay for Scotland🏴👌😎🇺🇸😍
So much can be said about the tartan, one thing important to remember is in the beginning of it in Scotland, they probably did mostly pick what color and/or patterns they liked so nothing wrong with that.
I do respect others wishes on their particular ones they create as I believe we all should and over the different time periods that may have changed some. There is certainly the matter of taste especially for more formal occasions, say like if it's an important evening event and we requested white tie or sheriffmuir jackets etc...
As for the family part, if this offends anyone born and raised in Scotland, sorry, however I may have been born in the United States yet when you go through my family history there is no doubting just how Scottish we are. As Scottish as it gets as the saying goes and yes the Mother's side counts too, in my personal case there's so many clans all over Scotland I have deep connections to. So I feel I can wear any of those if I like but some maybe more recently in our history I feel more connected to. Also as a tribute to a family member I remember who has died & I want to cherish their memories.
If someone has a love for a place, country or culture, it's not hurting anyone else to want to participate in that culture etc...
All of us have roots that go beyond where we were born and that's neat and great for us who share that enthusiasm!!
So whether its just casual hiking up a mountain, going out with friends or way formal to a wedding or event, let's be thankful we appreciate them, I just hope people in Scotland don't get bored and tired of our interest in them.
But even if they do, there are many who never will, because they know what all this means to us, just like the clothing of other places and people.
It's good to celebrate our uniqueness without thinking we are better or have to fight over it.
Thanks again guys for making this back then, wow, 4 years ago. Hope someone will still read this, lol.
Mar sin Leat 🏴👏🦄😊
In my opinion and experience people will be very bold when they can "hide behind" the anonymity that public media provides. But if they are forced to say it to your face they will have noticeably less to say and if called out they will deny it all. This in my book is called "cowardice," Pure and simple "If you can't say a thing to a person's face then you shouldn't say it behind their back either. In essence, Thumper's Rule; "If you don't have nothin' nice to say, Then don't say nothin' at all!"
good morning gentlemen, my question is about State Tartans, looking for a Missouri Kilt, but can't find it anywhere... can this be done?
You mentioned Scots wearing kilts to a wedding. Many years ago my Scottish female colleague got married to an English man at Gretna Green, (I was born in England) 85% of the guests were Scottish! The only 2 people who wore the kilt were the groom and me! As a result of this event I found that I had more Scottish ancestry, and am a member of the clan Colquhoun. Many years later my wife bought me a kilt in the modern Colquhoun tartan. When ever I have worn my kilt out in public I have only had compliments, except in Scotland where no one bothers. Yous is a very informative and sensible attitude to “Highland” dress.
I have played the organ for weddings for hundreds of times in my life and i have only seen a kilt-wearer once.
Americans who claim to be super scottish (but rarely in reality are) and walk in kilts all day and watch braveheart all day are living in a fantasy makey-upey world. They are cos players/larpers basically
Love your video! It is really relevant to my experience this weekend: I thought about you guys last Saturday. I attended an international Rugby match involving Scotland (rugby 6 nations) in my kilt. All the Scots wearing kilts were mixing their kilt outwear in may different (non normative) fashions. e.g. Night sporrans with informal day wear, brown leather with black leather... and no one cared. No kilt police there and were were thousands in kilts. I wore mine in the way I thought most convenient considering the etiquette, but yes I also did things that would may not be standard (I wore ghillies, and flashes). BTW I am not Scottish born, and the only ones asking why I was wearing a kilt were non Scots, all Scots were absolutely fine with it! No one cares! The "under the kilt" question came up also, but the problem is that the person asking was an asshole and was pissed drunk, so no elegant way of dismissing him could be found, this person ended up like a three year old on the floor looking up under the kilt (LOL).
Scots really don't care what you are wearing. They are proud that you took the effort to wear a kilt in the first place, and have their national dress being worn by foreigners (as long as you do it proudly and with a minimum respect to what it represents).
The game was in Paris, France, in general of course you get looks, but most of them were just a quick glance, majority of which were indifferent, and a few gave a smile. One (while crossing the road), did the "nice skirt" shout from a car. LOL. The day after it was dull because I was not in my kilt, and was not getting the attention.
now you know what it is like to be a woman
scotland and france have a long lasting friendship
Are the Sgian Dhu that you sell good quality knife steel? I love knives and only buy functional weapons. Just curious, but, definitely interested in your staghorn blades. Thanks for your help and time.
Just say “thank you for your input”, and walk away.🏴
In High School, I had a skirt and the Tartan was labelled "Hunting Fraser". Are there other Fraser Tartans that are for different occasions?
Bartsmom Most tartans have colour, weight or set variations on the standard pattern that make up a particular tartan. So if your school skirt was labelled Hunting Fraser it's simply a variation of standard Fraser tartan. I think Hunting Fraser is a particularly well blended mix of subtle colours so it must have been a smart look.
Different wool mills often produce the same tartan in slightly different tones to their competitors, to make it even more confusing!
You can wear the variations for any occasions, and they offer an interesting alternative, especially if you consider the standard ('often called modern') tartans rather bright in colour. The hunting tartans, as the title suggests, are usually are less bright in colour while 'muted' or 'weathered' tartans are even less bright and are very popular these days. I attended a wedding this summer and most people wore muted and 'ancient ' tartans. And very nice they looked.
At the other end of the scale 'dress tartans' often have white weaved into the patterns thus making them even brighter than modern, and are typically worn at dress occasions, such as weddings or balls, but there are no strict rules.
I have been doing research on family history. I have 2 different Scottish ancestors, different last names which tartan would be ok to wear or both of them ok. Also how do I find out which ones are the correct patterns and colors.
Listen, if you’re wearing it with respect and knowing what it is, most people worth talking to are going to be okay with you wearing any clan tartan you like. As for the official answer, it would probably be the closest ancestor on your paternal side.
But again, unless you’re wearing it backwards around your hips with a wifebeater and have no idea what the tartan is, anyone who tries to police you on it is probably a stuffy weirdo who you are under no obligation to listen to.
If you have the names in question, go to the scottishtartanregistry.com and enter the name (one at a time) in the search window and click the magnifying glass to the right. You should get a list of tartans pertaining to the name. you can click on the text or the tartan and get a report on that tartan. choose the ones listed as Clan / Family in the reports. You can download these reports to a file or flash-drive for your research records as well. The Scottish Tartan Registry is "The Official Site" and is authorized by the Lord Lyon of Scotland. I do research on all of the Scottish Clans and for "Official Scottish Tartans" the Scottish Tartan Registry is the "Go-To site for "Official Tartan Reports." Also you might want to visit electricscotsman.com for clan information as well. GOOD LUCK!
And is it sacrilege to wear a kilt without sporran (while waiting for an ordered one to arrive)?
Hey. Could you research and discuss any professional or amateur sports organizations that have official tartans? It'd be interesting to see which ones exist.
Internet used to have information. Disney world had a shop at Epcot,, with limited info.
Also most good retail or wholesale suppliers used to have books with samples of kilts and descriptions of / name of heritage. I loved the tartan books, as I called them when I was young. They must be on line somewhere, now I want to look.
I know this is an older video, but like Erik said, his kilt pin is representative of his Scandinavian heritage. When I ordered my kilt, I ordered a mix of Irish, Scottish, and Norwegian accessories to represent those parts of my heritage.
I'm an eight generation Texan with roots to the MacTavish clan. I have given up finding the Texas Bluebonnet tartan... a GOREGEOUS tartan. I understand it's restricted and would willing pay to get my hands on some yardage for a kilt.
Meanwhile I am pleating my first kilt in Modern MacTavish, Kinguisse. I'd love some tips on pleating to the set, Kinguisse.... I go big or go home. Will you accept this challenge?
Perhaps you could get permission from the registry holder to have a weaver weave yardage for you. When I was still weaving, I did weave tartans of my own design. They are not difficult to weave, but threading the loom is tedious and difficult to keep the sett in order.
I love Tartans almost as much as I love manly men in Tartans. Both of you are good looking men in Tartans and you look good in them.No slouches are you two. Stopped at 45+ minutes of your show. Respectfully, Tom in Minneapolis, MN 9/4/19 PS I did enjoy your back and forth ideas and opinions on Tartan wear.
My Kilt police moment: a dude in full kilt mode said "what kind of Scottish hat is that?" I said "I have 4 blood lineages of Scottish in me, I'll wear whatever hat I want. " the man nodded his head and moved on. This was at a Highland Games two years ago. It was sunny and hot. Not into the kilt police.
Yeah Really, My ancestry is Mcilvaine, Mcculloch, Rodgers, Wemyss, + other Scottish and some possibly Welsh, I'll wear whatever tartan I like, I'm sure there is probably a link somewhere 🤪
@Traditional Arts International
OK, I wasn't replying to your comment. My reply was for Jason Dunlap, basically agreeing with it really doesn't matter what tartan you wear. And I agree use some fashion sense. Only mentioned Welsh because that's possibly part of my line on my Great grandmother's side.
Well played!
I own three kilt, and love this gear. I have been a convenor for two Clans. Like many of the southern and eastern families, our origins are Flemish. We need an overhaul of our "Kilt Shop" history.
I can't understand why you showed a photo of Prince Charles wearing the Gordon highlanders military uniform but discussing the black watch tartan.
I wear utility kilts to work and I do wear what was sold to me as a "Tactical Sporran" It's a large military pack and I always use it.
Here's a recent development in tartan registration - pipe bands. I've noticed a number of upper grade pipe bands using unique pipe bands over the past few years. Examples that come to mind are Simon Fraser University's Grade 1 band, Macmillan's G2 band and I believe the 78th Fraser's of Toronto recently registered a new darker version of Fraser for their use. Also possibly Scottish Power and Sprit of Scotland PB. It kind of makes sense, since the bigger bands would be ordering 40+/- kilts a a time, so you might as well have "your own".
I have placed a order for my beginning of wearing a kilt. Douglas is everything and I like the modern Douglas kilt. I was in the US Amy and I am a 32degree Mason. If I were to purchase accessories for the a Army and Mason. Will it be OK to wear the Douglas with them?
Sure! Mixing 2 different clan accessories is frowned upon in Scotland (they generally pick ONE clan and claim it as "their clan"), but mixing a tartan that represents a group like Masons, Army, etc and wearing clan accessories would be fine.
I am looking at buying a great kilt but unsure what pattern to buy. my clan, MACMILLAN has MANY tartans. How do I decide which to buy and for what purpose?
Contact the Registry in Scotland for their guidance www.tartansauthority.com/tartan/tartan-register/
This may sound like a strange question, but what if one has several tartans he/she relate to? Can you mix tartans together, or should a particular tartan design take precedence? For example, if one's lineage of both mother and father have a tartan, and (in the USA) if one lives in a state that has a 'state tartan'......would you just choose which one had the most relevance to the occasion of wear? Would it be in poor taste to have clothing designed that used several tartan designs? Like a woman wearing a jumper of one plaid, and maybe had a pocket or collar of a different plaid? AHHH.....editing this because I got to the end of your video and I think you've answered my questions. LOL.
I wore a kilt as a young piper, later wore 3 different band kilts (the last one bespoke) and still later the kilt of my highland regiment. I'm well read in history and still I wouldn't have the gall to tell someone else how to wear the kilt. I would help someone who had the pleats in front out of ignorance. I have seen all manner of faux pas. To me the worst offences are mixing surplus military or full dress items with casual civilian wear. I would shudder to see a horsehair sporran on a utility kilt with a swordbelt and sandals (no hose), tweed waistcoat, and baseball cap. But if the person is happy, I'd leave them to it.
Every so often there is a rise in counter culture that when viewed in hindsight really isn't as terrible as it seemed at the time, and tradition still survives. Maybe I'm a bit of a purist and see utility kilt as perfectly fine, sans sporran, with work boots and a tee shirt being entirely separate from a formal kilt with day or evening attire, and not wanting to mix these elements. But hippy, punk, goth, metal, steampunk, and emo subcultures have all borrowed and adapted elements of other cultures with no real harm. Kilts, and Scottish culture are not sacrosanct.
I'm a 1st 69th Irish Regiment (NYANG) alumni. Do they have a tarten?
I've been and admirer of the CANADIAN BLACK WATCH. My Grandfather served in WW2. I feel a bit strange wanting to wear it. My ancestors were Anglo Saxons and maybe Scottish. I can understand the argument that your name should identify your right to the heritage. THANKS FOR ANY ANSWER.
Kilts aren't worn day to day here, they are much more formal or day wear, generally.
Not that there is anything wrong with it in my opinion, but that's just the typical way things are done here
It's also funny how traditions changes because in the 18th century it was the height of fashion to be a peacock and wear several often contrasting Tartans.
And for Americans coming here to Scotland don't worry about it, the only thing we sometimes get a little bit irritated with is Americans calling themselves Scottish due to ancestry which isn't the view here at all. I hate to say that or bring down the enthusiasm of Scottish descended Americans but we don't view it the same way you do over there.
Americans I have met are usually very sincere and enthusiastic but just bare in mind even at a basic level our ways of speaking and acting can be quite different, but we tend to enjoy the enthusiasm and honesty of Americans :)
Thank you for your comment. I found the bit towards the end something I should consider more. I am a Scottish decendant on both my mothers and father’s side, and I find learning about Scottish traditions and history interesting, (just as I find other parts of my heritage interesting). My mom recently traced her Scottish lines back as far as 500 B.C.) And my father’s can be traced to the 1400’s A.D. I guess that I think it’s fun to know about my ancestors, and I’m enjoying learning more about Scotland!
The thing about us Americans, is that we often over share! This becomes more true if we are excited!!And more so if we are just a bit nervous!!!🤪. Fortunately, we are (hopefully) a mostly friendly and kind nation, at least in smaller groups (especially while in another country).
Anyway, that is my, possibly confusing, explanation for why you have experienced those from the U.S. as you have. Plus, a lot of Americans have this weird syndrome where, “they just really want everyone to like them!” There are people who “need!” you to think they’re cool. So, they are the ones wearing their kilt as they are departing the plane, and telling customs agents who their clan is, etc.
Yeah, IDK, because when it’s written down like this it’s obvious, but in reality people do it all the time! And not just in kilts in Scotland!🙃 Yep, I know I’m guilty of it in many ways. I tell people about my genealogy sometimes......
Maybe all of us Americans are just self-centered assholes?
-----SORRY-----
A lot of us, especially the ones who retained the surname. Consider ourselves Scottish, and American. As American ethnicity and identity, at best, is completely obscure. Also many of us come from those who where forced to leave. So we tend to take it more serious than needed. Our Scottish identity, for many here, begins at Culloden moor.
First of all, We LOVE Scotland, We LOVE the people. (The English, not so much.) We are very enthusiastic & prideful about our Scottish Heritage but that's the thing. In our exuberance we tend to overstep at times. We don't mean to insult or cause hard feelings. We support with great pride our heritage in Scotland or Ireland etc. Most of us know we can claim to have Scottish heritage & ancestry. Unfortunately we cannot claim to "be Scottish." This is where we over step the line. We are American or Scottish-American at best. Wording is everything in this instance. We just want so much to be part of it all that we lose ourselves in it and the line gets crossed. We would like to think, (Hope) that you think of us as "long lost Cousins," and in some sense I would think we are, to some extent or another connected through our common heritage and ancestry. Personally, I think it brings us closer. After all, is that such a bad thing?
I have not yet been to that lovely country, but from what I have seen in pictures it has moved way up on my bucket list. I have enjoyed the company and conversations of every visiting Scot that I have ever met from that wonderful country and hope to one day meet more of my Scottish Cousins. I have "Scottish heritage" through Ancestry on both sides of my family (Double Jeopardy :) so to speak. I am a Sept listed member of Clan MacLean of Duart on my Dad's side and Clan Smith on my Mother's side. Through my research I have found to my very great delight that both are Highland Clans and Both are affiliated with Clan Chattan Confederation who along with a healthy list of other Honored Clans fought at the Great Battle of Colloden Moore in 1746. So yes I am very proud to be descended from such an Honorable people and have ancestral roots in such a Great country! I envy you. You live in one of the most beautiful countries in the world, (if not the most.)
Can you explain why the difference in "Formal", "Semi Formal" and everyday use sporrans? I'm going on a cruise around the UK later this summer and am planning on wearing my kilt on the ship for both dinner events and off ship.
Formal sporrans generally have fur on the facing and a fancy cantle of some kind, semi formal are usually leather with a silver cantle and a little simpler. Tuxedo vs suit kinda thing.
They have a video
Usually black oval shaped Sporrans are for "evening wear" after 6:PM and "D" shaped Sporrans (flat side up) are for "day wear" morning till 6:PM Leather straps, belts and shoes should match as much as possible. (Brown for day wear and black for evening wear.) A good tweed Jacket and weskit (Waist coat or vest) White dress shirt with color neck tie and hose (maching minor color in kilt) for casual day wear. And for the evening "ultra formal", a Bonnie Prince Charlie Jacket and weskit with plaid fly (matching your kilt) on Left shoulder finished with a clan brooch. (Ladies wear theirs on the right shoulder.) white wing-tip collar dress shirt and black bow tie, argyle hose and black Gillie-broogues (Shoes). For evening wear not as formal replace the B.P.C. with a Black Argyle jacket and weskit and a white dress shirt and black neck tie. the rest should be fine. GOOD LUCK!
Do you have any info on the McClary tartan
If you're a MacDonald, for example, but don't know from which particular branch you are descended, is it okay to wear any of the branches' tartans given you have the name?
Glenn Moran I’d say so. If you don’t know the particulars, nobody else is going to. Know what you’re wearing, wear it well, and you can wear pretty much whatever you like.
I would say yes but you might want to explore and research it further for your own information. Doing your geneology might shed a good amount if light on it as well. if you can get it back far enough. GOOD LUCK!
I think all of that stuff is very much fading, though most Irishmen wouldnt recognise most Scottish tartans anyway. Possibly Black Watch though that is often mistaken for being straightforwardly Campbell as well.
Great video though. Thanks a million.
I have a formal (expensive) kilt I had made in the Scott tartan purely for special occasions, but I also have a couple of other cheaper kilts I bought to wear casually. These are just ones I liked the pattern & colour of, and no-one has ever called me out on them, and have only ever got compliments about. I've also worn them when I play drums in my punk band and the audience response has always been positive. People generally just don't care as long as you look good.
It may not be restricted but it has never been used except by the Sixth Duke of Argyll; he added a white line to the Campbell tartan to set himself apart as the Chief. I am also of the understanding that the Black Watch tartan is worn by some Campbells as evening wear or for more formal occasions. The Black Watch tartan is Ancient Campbell with darker shades of blue and green; the sett is the same. Just discovered your channel. I like your style, thanks for helping educate people.
I'm very fortunate that there are 3 family clans in my family. Buchanan, Borthwick and Watson. I have a choice of all three and their respective variants such as Hunting, Traditional, Modern etc. I will not wear a tartan from a clan other than my own.
I work in a tech company with a large number of Indians. I've really enjoyed learning about their cultures and traditions (Sikh, Hindu, Muslim, etc.). Although I'm of Scottish heritage, I tend to wear my 'pub kilt' (Black Watch that my late wife got me) on St. Patty's Day just for fun. This past March my boss' boss (both Indian, execs) saw me and told my boss it was inappropriate. My boss thought it was ridiculous, and told him it's no different than me wearing my Kurta at our annual company Diwali festivals. 😊
My favorite response I have heard to "what do you wear under your kilt?" Is "an elastic band".
“The future!”
Nothing is worn.Everything is in perfect working order
Pretty decent video. As a Scotsman I'm strongly of the view that if you like a tartan whether clan or otherwise then you should wear it. I've always encouraged folk to read about the history of the tartan though just so that they understand the association's with it, Campbell comes to mind
basically there is no such thing as "clan tartan". This whole idea is completely fabricated and makey-uppy stuff. and based on a victorian era fantasy book and not on reality in any way shape or form.
If you want to buy a kilt or loose fabric you just go to a shop and buy whatever pattern and colour you fancy. That is exactly how people did it throughout history. Its JUST a piece of fabric and JUST a pattern.
The fast majority of Scottish population throughout history never even wore kilts anyway but wore breeks or hoses or pantaloons and more or less followed continental fashion.
@@Herr_Flick_of_ze_Gestapo I more or less true, clan tartans were for the most part ceremonial and were romanticised during the 17th and 18th centuries.
I disagree with your last statement, it was actually very common for Scots to wear the kilt in some form, the modern kilt was not worn though until the 17 hundreds or something. Prior to that many wore tartan trousers or more commonly wore breacan-an-feileadh (esp in the Highlands) although the tartans were usually based on the locally available colour dyes as apposed to clan aligned.
Black Watch is one of three tartans very popular in the States - in flannel, often for nighties and ladies' pyjamas. Some shirts, also, but mostly women's wear.
Here in NZ a number of years ago, the Napier (city) pipe band outfitted themselves in the Napier tartan, before checking their validity to do so (OOPS!) - clan Napier called them out on it & it ended up in court, although all parties did come to a harmonious agreement. While individuals may get away with wearing another clans tartan, organisations need to get permission.
On another point - if anyone chooses to critique one's apparel, a classic answer is "You have me confused with someone who dives a damn" - especially if you know you have done it right.
Gotta say, the firefighter tartan kilt looks amazing. As a firefighter in New England, I’ll probably pick one up
If you have Scottish parentage, grandparentage etc... Do you wear your mothers line or your fathers line? Can you wear the tartan of your mother's mother's mother?
when it is acceptable to wear a Great kilt? How much fabric makes a Great Kilt?
The only challenge I have to the Black watch argument is it’s the Grant Hunting tartan I am a Grant and wear it as an alternative to the Red as I prefer green
What is the difference between the "top stitched 8 yard and the Permier 8 yard kilt.
I’m a welsh Jenkins who’s been in America for several generations. However I feel a much greater connection to my Irish roots than my Welsh roots. My first (and currently only, although I want a Jenkins tartan) is the Irish National. I was wearing it out with my pastor and mens group when a McDougall challenged me. Apparently the McDougalls really don’t care for the Irish so I explained it was the Irish National and when he said we’d have to fight I asked what part of Scotland his clan was from and he said Southern Highlands I believe. So I mentioned the Dal Riata from way back when and we ended up having a good laugh and conversation. I think I inspired him to pull out his kilt again haha. Otherwise I get a lot of compliments on my kilt in South Louisiana.
In a previous show you were talking about the 2 fabrics that make your kids out of wool and then a Polly blend how flammable is the Polly blend I don't want to burn my stones if I'm sitting around the campfire
What do you wear instead of Blackwatch if you are Scott's Irish and the Scottish side is Campbell?
What you like.
I like your videos and find them informative. Bought my first kilt for an event and found your videos helpful and informative. Just to be a video cop for a minute you could drop the background music a few levels as i found it distracting when trying to follow the conversation. Keep up the good work.
If you watch any of our new videos, you'll notice the background music is completely gone. 😁
Is the Campbell of Argyle tartan restricted?
I lived in Scotland a number of years and can safely say that nobody in Scotland really cares what tartan you wear and whether you are of Scottish or celtic or any other heritage. Only in other countries are people obsessed with worrying and being concerned about clans and shite like that - "just wear whatever tartan you like" is what any Scottish person will tell you.
"Hang the code, and hang the rules! They're more like guidelines anyway!"
I purchased a high quality Clan Lamont kilt that I wear quite a bit. I have no family association with Clan Lamont but while I wear it I try and be the best representative of the clan that I can.
might be nice to see what the US AirForce and the US Army tartan looks like, do the subdivision active, reserve, and national guard thier own tartan or is it just the branches and the specialty groups?
Extremely interesting content! But please, the violin music in the background throughout the entíre video is an assault to the senses and causes nausea. Please have silence from music in the main content part of the video.
Like the analogy of the utilikilt and sporan. Like suspenders with a belt.
I wear kilts frequently in my daily life and it's pretty common for people to ask me how to know what tartan they're "allowed" to wear or "should" wear. My standard reply is that it's not a matter of law and ultimately you can wear whatever you wish; however, the usual understanding is that a tartan represents a group of people (family, military unit, geographic/political region, etc) and that by wearing their tartan you are proclaiming your membership in or support for that group. With that in mind, the polite and respectful thing to do is to know something about the group and be able to explain why you are showing support for them. A tartan is a bit like a flag in that respect. If you've never been to Alaska but you've seen the TV shows and you think Alaska is awesome, by all means display the Alaska state flag and tell people why. On the other hand, if you know absolutely nothing about the flag and what it represents except "that blue with the stars on it is cool," we Alaskans can't put you in jail but we will definitely consider you ill-mannered and disrespectful. Every year at National Police Week in Washington DC there are dozens or hundreds of people wearing US Law Enforcement tartan who are not and never have been law enforcement officers but I've never heard of any LEO objecting to the show of support.
I feel like Americans are more concerned about 'can I wear this one' more than most other people. I have Welsh and Scottish family and there's a tartan for every family name in my family tree.
Most people don't care what tartan you wear, they're just happy to see someone wearing one, particularly in Scotland wear most of the preservation of the kilt happens. outside of Scotland, your more likely to get people that go: oh wow, a kilt, that's not something you see every day.
You can go into charity or 2nd hand shops and pick up a kilt and no one will ask you why you've chosen that one. most people that wear kilts have a few. they'll have a family one (usually for big events) and then a bunch of others just because they like them and most probably don't even know what half of them represent.
I'd also like to say that there's are literally hundreds of tartans: Scottish, Welsh, Irish, military groups, etc, and many that don't have anything associated with them. The likely hood of you meeting someone that knows the tartan your wearing is pretty unlikely unless it's one of the super common family names and they know a lot about tartans.
If you like, it wear it. As long as you haven't worn a specific tartan to specifically anger specific people, we don't care and are happy you like it.
The McBride tartan is registered as a restricted pattern in Scotland. I would like to wear it. As a matter of courtesy, how would I track down the owner to seek permission?
Mike McBride since your last name is Mcbride must meet your a member of the Mcbride clan so you have every right to wear the tartan because it’s your family’s tartan nobody can’t say anything about it
I have an old black watch Kilt that Ive worn a few times as a bagpiper. Someone lent it to me and it never found its way back. My father doesn't like when I wear it, and offered to buy me Murphy tartan kilt to replace it. Something about the history of the tartan but he didn't really give me a good explanation so i kept wearing it. You guys didn't really give a good explanation either, but just the fact that it has a negative connotation in some peoples mind is enough more me to not wear it again. Its a shame because it really is a beautiful tartan to me. I like the green and the dark blue. I like how dark the tartan is. Is there anything similar to it that would be Irish friendly? lol
I was in the United States Navy specifically NMCB3 (SEABEES) I wonder how one go and get a USN SEABEE tartan designed. Have it registered and restricted to SEABEES
There is a Seabee tartan already registered: www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails?ref=4877
I recently asked the Barbour Company, the famous waxed coat folks, permission to have a Kilt made from one of their restricted Tartans, and was granted permission. I'm an American of Scottish descent, and was impressed by the Company's magnanimous response to my request.
I have several of the Company's shirts, a waxed coat, and the quality is great. They have a number of restricted Tartans I like, and have yet to choose a Tartan.
This is one example of asking and it being granted, I'm sure it helps being a Barbour myself.
Good South Shields folk, I'd expect nothing less!
What would you suggest for a retired American firefighter of Irish descent?
Firefighters Memorial Tartan!