MY BROTHER! I have searched all the New World for you! Don't worry, I also like Atlantis the Lost Empire, even had it on VHS. So if you need to, you can point at me and say; "At least I am not as bad as him!"
I've always thought the most plausible option was that sacrifices of either team were reserved for rare occasions, since it's kinda impossible to develop a class of professional ball players if one of your teammates (or even your entire team) is killed off every time you lose a game.
I think they practiced a lot and only had official games, to resolve matters of state, rather rarely. But someone was sacrificed everytime. Because it was so important!
a key piece of Mexica belief was that "sacrifice" didnt always mean "killing" and in most cases, blood-letting was enough of a sacrifice to a particular deity. sacrifices were done for so many different reasons, its an irritatingly long list. sacrificial offerings could be given also by burning objects of significance, as the smoke was said to carry the remains into the spirit world. and most importantly, when lives were taken, sacrifices of the pious in the faith of their god meant infinitely more than some random captive of another faith. furthermore, not all in the pantheon required sacrifice (but those that did couldnt get enough lol)
They killed people like it was nothing, they ate people too. You could buy human meat in the local markets. No wonder the Europeans were horrified and wanted to wipe them out
"Tulio, the hip, the hip!" Time Stamps: 1:25 - Sources of Evidence 2:29 - The Ballcourt 3:13 - The Rules 6:04 - The Players 7:14 - The Crowds 8:01 - Role in Society
I read once that the losers were sacrificed because it represents a history from the popol vu where some brothers has to win the same ball game so they can stay alive and continue they journey.
The game is actually called "Ulama" and it is still played to some extent in Mexico and Belize. ruclips.net/video/J-RW4JJZvDs/видео.html (example of Ulama being played)
When I visited Chichen Itza last year, I saw the stadium they used to play that game and frankly, I was astonished. I don't think you realize how difficult this game must have been until you see an actual stadium. First, the hoop is super high, even for me who is 1m85, so I could only imagine how it was for them considering they were probably much smaller than us today, right? Second, there is a slope that goes out of the wall a good one meter and so while it makes it easier to run up the wall, it also means you can't stand parallel to the hoop. Every shot had to be angled to some degree. Finally, the hoop is TINY while the stadium was huge! It's just meters and meters of wall with one tiny hoop on it! So yeah, definitely a hardcore game. Great vide on it Invicta!
This is Barris! - French History no. Much shorter. Humans are taller now than they were. On average. Obviously certain people groups buck the trend. But native Americans especially developing in jungles and mountains and highlands would lead towards being shorter on average.
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 actually they weren't all that short. Especially by the standards of the time. Most Mesoamerican populations were 5'6" on average (average height for men globally at the time was anywhere from 5'4" - 5'8"). In many accounts by Europeans the natives are described as being tall. In many drawings/paintings natives are portrayed to be even taller than Europeans at the time. Height has already been proven to be directly linked to overall protein consumption over your lifetime. This means height is flexible (at least from generation to generation). The reason natives are seen as short nowadays is because their populations have been dwindled to nothing, hundreds of years of enslavement, starvation, malnourishment, etc. meant their average height wouldn't be going up. If anything it would get lower in some instances. Not to mention prior to their enslavement they were conquered. That typically means the strongest and the tallest of your men (the warriors) die in large numbers. Not even just the men thanks to disease, which did most of the killing. Then you get a bottleneck effect where the remaining natives no longer represent the original population because they've lost a lot of genetic variation. Take that small population and malnourish them for centuries and boom you get a bunch of people that on average are shorter than people who have been eating proper diets. Not all that surprising. If you go to Mexico there are still some smaller isolated tribes that still retain their height. The yaqui were never fully conquered, they were merely assimilated over time. They are exceptionally tall. Most are over 6'. There's also a large population of direct descendants of Aztecs in Queretaro, and they're pretty tall.
I don’t know where I read it, but once I read that plains natives were some of the tallest people on earth, taller than the average European of the day, not sure if that’s true though but it is interesting!
@@Coelacantha yes it is true that plain/equestrian Indians at the time of European colonization were among the tallest men on the planet with an average height of around 5'11". That is no longer the case, obviously, with the tallest people being northern Europeans nowadays.
I remember being told while on vacation in Mexico that the reason for the hips and certain other body parts being used is because the ball was quite heavy and would damage hands and feet once it got moving.
Indeed, if u have the oportunity to touch and "play" with these ancient balls made of primary organic rubber you would see that even they bounce a lot, they are quite tough
This game looks like its impossible to play. I imagine that the reason why it didn’t get picked up by the conquistadors is because they just got frustrated trying to play it.
@@InvictaHistory Yes, The Road To El Dorado is REALLY good! but the myth of El Dorado is from muiscas a much smaller group that lived in Colombia not Mexico. I loved the movie as a child but it was confusing to me because they mixed different things. I really like your videos, hope to see more about these themes
Because they're too busy craming slavery and hitler down your throats, they rather have a world focused on division, then a world focused on actual history.
So as somebody with a big interest in Mesoamerican history, while I have to give Invicta a HUGE amount of props for the last video, which is easily among best video on Mesoamerican history on youtube, but I was pretty appalled by a lot of the comments I was saying from people who clearly did not watch the video. I want to take time to debunk and break down a lot of the misinfo I was seeing: I will first address people calling Mesoamerican groups "tribes". They were not: They were urban, state societies. The earliest Mesoamerican city dates back to 1400 BC, or almost 3000 years prior to contact with Europeans. Writing was developed by around 1000 BC, with writing systems becoming common by 500 BC, and you had urban cities popping up all over the place around that time as well. By the turn of the millennium, city-states and empires were the norm in the region. In fact, the Maya city of El Mirador had a population of around 100,000 people in 300 BC, being in the same class of cities like Alexandria, or Rhodes in the same period and rivaling Athens at it's height. In general, Mesoameerican cities during the classic (200 AD to 800 AD) and postclassic (200 AD to 1521 AD, though this is misleading due to reasons I won'tt get into here) had population sizes comparable to those from Europe's Iron Age age and Early Classical Antiquity, and even Contemporary 16th century europe: the average Mesoamerican city had around 15,000 inhabitants, and the largest hit 100,000 to 200,000, such as El Mirador, Teotihuacan, and Tenochtitlan. These cities were not just large villages, either: You had plazas, streets, marketplaces, temples, palaces, built with stone, plastered with lime stucco and finely painted with murals and frescos (though, lower social classes would have simpler homes, as was the case in Europe and Asia); quite often water management systems with aqueducts, drainage pipes or canals, reservoir systems etc: There were formal governments, and political and legal systems, and clear social stratification: You had royalty, nobility, merchants, artisans, poets and musicians, etc. Political marriaages, wars of successon, and the like were common. The most famous King of the Aztec city of Texcoco, Nezahualcoyotl, for instance, was a noted poet, philosopher, patron of the arts, and designed a vaariety of aquaduct and dike systems around the core of the Aztec empire, including Tenochtitlan's dual piped aqueduct which could close one pipe off while the other raan for cleaning, or the system that fed water into his royal gardens and palace that brought water from a mountain range all the way to a pair of hills near texcoco, where it crossed the huge gorge between them with a stone aquaduct, which circuited around the second hill, dropping water off via artificial waterfalls in the garden at key points. Another big piece of misinfo was that the Aztec Triple Alliance, or, the most powerful of the 3 ruling triple alliance cities, Tenochtitlan (and it's inhabitants, the Mexica) in particular, was so bad and evil and terrorized the rest of the region with sacrifice that they sided with the Spanish. This is a gross misunderstanding of the geopolitical factors at play. as well as Mesoamerican religious norms. To begin with, the vast maajority of sacrifices were captured enemy soldiers. Recent excavations of the primary site were the skulls of sacrificial victims were stored in Tenochtittlan from this paast year have shown that 75% of the skulls were males between the age of 20 and 35. At Teotihuacan, the number hits 90%. In general, the most impressive thing a soldier could do in combat is to caapture the enemy alive to sacrifice later, not to kill them in battle. So most (but admittedly not all) sacrifices were people who would have died in Eurasian conflicts anyways. On that note, EVERYBODY sacrificed people in the region. It is a universal constant in Mesoamerican religion, present in even the earliest Olmec cities. The exact practices and cultural context varied, but blood worsphip and sacrifice was universally practiced, though as I said, the sacrifice of enemy soldiers was very common. Sacrifice also happened at far smaller scales then most people realize: the majority of religious offerings were food, objects, animal sacrifices, or human blood from self-inflicted blood letting. Fatal sacrifice was important and socially systemic, to be sure, but the scales for most groups would have been in the range of tens, *maybe* low hundreds annually if there was a particularly successful series of military campaigns for a larger city. Now, Tenochtitlan WAS unique in that did mass scale sacrifices on a larger scale and frequency then any other Mesoamerican groups: But this too is likely limited to hundreds or low thousands annually: Even Cortes, who had EVERY reason to exaggerate the barbarity of native cultures and is known tto have done so, since his letters were him explicitly appealing to the Crown to avoid execution for his actions, only states they sacrificed 3000 to 4000 people a year: It was likely even less then this, and, again, recall that most would have been enemy soldiers. In fact, for tthe Mexica, it NEEDED tto mostly be: Their entire state religious dogma was based around their war god, who had become the sun in the current incarnation of the world, needing the blood of their enemies to keep the world from ending, which was used to justify their military expansion: The idea that the Aztec raided enemy cities and enslaved and sacrificed women and childern or farmers is directly contradicting their impetus for their sacrifices to begin with: They captured enemy warriors, and their enemies captured and sacrificed Aztec warriors, too. Why did so many cities side with the Spanish, then, if not sacrifices? The answer is mostly geopolitical opportunism: Larger states, like the Aztecs, almost universally existed as networks of vassals and tributaries that still maintained their own internal governance, connected under a single or set of ruling cities that kept their power via either political connections, prestige/respect, and implied military retribution if their vassals didn't toe the line. If of military weakness was shown,or a loss of trust, or political instability, 1 or 2 cities rebuking the dominant one would cause others to follow suit, fracturing the entire thing. This varied of course, the Maya familial dynastic kingdoms and the Aztec empire had differences, for instance, but bottom line they both shared this "hands off" political web approach for the most part. So, prestige, influence, ancestry, and ability to project your military might were paramount to maintaining your own power. Even huge superpower like the Aztecs were vulnerable to their tributaries just ceasing to respect them if they showed weakness. untrustworthyness, and so on. This is basically what happened: Only a few cities, such as Cempoala and Tlaxcalaa, sided with the Spanish initially, and this had to do with grievances such as feeling overtaxed and being the victim of blockades and invasions, respectively. Other cities only joined in AFTER Tenochtitlan was hit by smallpox, it's king killed, and the region's geopolitics being thrown into chaos as a result. Furthermore, the final siege against Tenochtittlan had only 8-10 cities or so on the Spanish''s side: The immediate area around Tenochtitlan had 30 cities alone, the region as a whole with hundreds: There was not this universal push against Aztec oppression, and as Invicta's video even mentioned, the ruling Aztec triple alliance generally lett their conquered cities retain their rulers, laws, culture, etc, as long as they got paid annual tribute: In fact, they avoided killing civilians and destroying farmland or buildings, as they WANTED conquered cities to still have the population and infrastructure t produce the goods they would give in tribute: Was the Aztec a expansionist, militaristic empire? Yes. But so was Rome, China at multiple points, Persia, Greece under Alexander, etc. The Mesoamericans sacrificed people, yes: But the Greeks committed pedastry, and almost all of Europe and the Middle east was filled with religiously motivated persecutions, conflicts, and killings, etc. The Mesoamericans and Aztecs were not uniquely awful: They, like all other civilizations, had moments of both greatness and savagery. They just diid their bad stuff in a particular spectacular fashion.
Wow, this is an excellent and enlightening comment. Are you a researcher in the field? By the way, I also feel like there's a type of misleading view towards the Aztecs in the sense of their savagery, hence we don't often see the acts of the Catholic church the same way, and even the sacrifices in the Nordic religion are not considered as the result of some barbaric people. I would like to discuss more about this subject. Sorry if I made any mistakes in the text, I'm not an English speaker.
@@tyrson4331Mexica isn't entirely interchangeable with Aztec as terms: Basically, Nahua is the culture most cities in tthe Basin/Valley of Mexico and who formed the core cities of the empire belonged to. Mexica is the specific nahua subgroup that lived in Tenochtitlan-Tlatelolco, and then "Aztec" is more or less an invented term from the modern era that when translated literally from Nahuatl is basically synonymous with Nahuas, but is typically used to either refer to the mexica specifically, the ruling triple alliance, or the empire as a whole, including subordinate tributaries.
then that is something that you would rather remember, I am completely aware that in the history of humanity there are no angels or demons, but the "situation" that leads each one to act in one way or another, in Eurasia, most of us had left tribalism and sacrifices (yes, there were also here) and most religious persecutions were only harassed by political causes and a situation of constant war or diseases such as the Black Plague and the Bubonic Plague added to a population increasingly difficult to feed. Do not pretend to make us believe that opening the chest to people to get the heart out was acceptable when it was institutionalized and was the norm while the burn of witches was almost always by illiterate villagers or by political interest of a tyrant like Mary Tudor, remember this well when you try to sanctify the pre-Columbian empires (I do not speak of small tribes)
you look like a man who knows what you are talking about, it hurts you to tell him so misrepresented, you have not mentioned the Xōchiyaoyōtl or the fate of the peoples that helped the conquerors (a much better fate than the first tribes of the Caribbean), if you want to know with which I compare the conquest of the New World, I will tell you that for me it is most similar to the Gallic Wars with Julio Caesar, as well as the final and subsequent conquest.
Hi from Cancun, Mexico. At least four versions have made it to the present day: Flat-Field ball game is reverse dodgeball: two teams face each other (staying on their own side), trying to make the ball roll beyond the other team. Sloped-wall ball game: each team would climb on a wall and retain control of the ball until they had scored, the ball touched the hoop at all, time, or the team incurred a penalty (most likely being touching the ball with head or limbs). Vertical-wall ball game: Same rules as the last one, but much more likely to be the popular, commoner game. It also easily allows to play with a single hoop simply by taking turns. Purepecha ball game: played with a smaller and much denser rubber ball (often covered in rope) or simply a ball of wood, set on fire, and contact with the ball was made with sticks. The game is basically field hockey, without goals (other than the end zones) or goalies, and with the added thrill that the ball sputters and may explode. As per Chichen Itza, I believe the current theory is that the hoops were purely symbolic of the fact that the court is for playing ball game, and the actual game was some form of flat-field ball game. This partially due to the hoops being extremely high up, and the fact that there are elevated walkways along the sides of the field, which would significantly increase difficulty to the game if the game was supposed to be wall game. If you want better images and videos for your video, try using the search terms "pok ta pok", "juego de pelota", "juego de pelota purepecha" and "xcaret juego de pelota". Do remember that this is living history for us.
Just found this channel and I'm loving the mesoamerican history. It's something you don't hear about a whole lot even though it's very complex, interesting, and there's still a lot of impressive ruins all around Mexico (and central America, for the Mayans). Subscribed! Keep up the good work!
I think it's admirable that you dedicate time to explain your sources. It's something I feel is lacking in a lot of other history focused youtube channels. Keep up the great work!
Something I think you forgot to mention is that the game actually never disappeared. It is called "ulama" and was preserved in the state of Sinaloa, where it is still played. Actually, most of the information we know ablut the rules of the game come from studying the descendant game that is played in Sinaloa where three variants exist: hips, forearms and one played with some kind of hammer. That makes the game the oldest ball sport that has been continually played in the world. Some people have tried to make it more widespread and my university actually has a team. Last week I went there to learn how to play it.
This is a great video - I will show this to my 4th graders before my lesson of MesoAmerica! The ballgame really engages students in this culture. Thanks!
My main question about the sacrifices is their frequency. The fact that we have some evidence doesn't mean that it was common practice. Quite the contrary in fact. People tend to report exceptional events, non common facts. Ancient written sources can be very misleading. We shouldn't extrapolate too much. Obviously, the game was common. But the sacrifices of one team might have been reserved for very special occasions or only in specific places and times. For instance, it wouldn't be too surprising after a major match between two kingdoms, when diplomatic affairs are a stake. But on an ordinary encounter, it would have been a terrible waste of good and renowned men. Sacrificing defeated ennemies is relatively pleasant, but I doubt any people would have killed its own nobility lightly, even though taking risk is an important component of the aristocratic mindset. And, as many have already pointed out, it's difficult to achieve a professional level if one team is systematically executed.
I think you are thinking about this from a modern western perspective. They viewed life very differently, especially the Aztecs. Sacrificing strong blood on a very important event would have been seen as a huge boon.
@@dominicmanester8125 Anyway, everybody has some sort of survival instinct. And even though human sacrifices were practiced all over America, massive killings such as those committed by the Aztecs weren't that common. They happened during a relatively short period of time, in a restricted area. By the way. In the long run, mass murders of your own population are suicidal for a society. It simply can't last long or exposes you to be overwhelmed by more reasonable foes. It possible that some cities made a systematic rule to sacrifice the losing team. It's probable that most of them had milder rules and reserved sacrifices for special occasions.
Mass murder was more common than you seem to think since blood was very important for the Aztecs though they only killed their own on important events like the solstice. Slaves and enemy tribes are fair game for mass sacrifices where the steps of the temple would run with the blood of sacrifices.
The Aztecs developed the macuahuitl, which become their primary weapon. It was designed to disable their enemies rather than kill them so that they could be sacrificed later.
Loved El Dorado!! Remember seeing it in theaters actually, thanks for another dose of high quality content, I love learning about ancient societies and you do a great job at presenting information in an easily palatable way. Thank you!
Ah I lost again bummer... Maybe next time! Well I'm going home to eat the Acient Meso-armerican equivalent of Doritos sweet chilly heat. have fun at the sacrifice guys!
Thanks for making this video! Meso American history is seldom treated in this kind of channels. This game is incredibly interesting. I wish people here in Colombia played it.
Aztecs inhabited Mexico. Mayans were in central Mexico and inhabited all of Central America. Not sure about Panama though because Panama had their own native flair
I visited chichen itza a few years back and saw a reenactment of the game by some natives. So much energy and movement required with fire pots everywhere, pretty badass
If the losing or the winning team died after the game then how where there professional players. To become a good player at any game you must lose at least one game at some point in your career. I think it was symbolic.
Because it did not happen, the people who were sacrificed were not real players, they were war captives who would take part in a fake game, sort of like a play. Actual professional players would not be sacrificed.
Of course not all players were killed, not even all cities made human sacrifices, there were ceremonial ball courts and recreative ones. It is speculated that big cities like Chichen Itza had tournaments once a year that ended near the winter solstice. Teams and spectators from cities and villages from all over yucatan arrived to play and pay tribute (that´s why the ball court in Chichen was so big). It was a ceremony that lasted weeks. The player or team that came out victorious were worshipped as demigods and lived luxurious lives until their sacrifice (maybe at the end of the tournament the next year). Remember it was a privilege to be offered to the gods, so all teenagers would practice a lot to be professional ball players like their heroes... much like professional football players today.... minus the being killed part
Dear invicta, I'm glad you're taking such interest in mesoamerican culture, not sure if you've checked out "popol vuh" wich is the ancient mayan creation myth. It narrates the story of a couple of brothers, ball game players, sons of another ball game player all of them get invited by the gods due to their ball game skills. Don't want to spoil it, so I will stop there. Lets just say that it gets violent and tricky. Hope you enjoy
It great to hear that channels like you are talking about the history of my people. I am Maya and I want to learn more about my people, and find out more that are not being told in history classes. Keep up the good work.
At Chichen Itza Ball Court there's an exception, because it is the only place where some kind of baseball bat and equipment were used. You can go to the ball court yourself and see the pictures on stone of the guys playing with equipment, ask to a Guide. P.d. I went to Chichen Itza two times this year
The sheer extent of the sacrifices as well as the willingness to sacrifice themselves and loved ones as common practice in the Aztec world continues to perplex me.
Paititi was the name of the city in Qechuan. The Incans are the civilization in which the legend of El Dorado, as the spanish called it, originated from. The Spanish lerned about it, supposedly located in the Amazon forest and launched expoditions to find it. Never did. City of gold yet to be found. It most likely doesn’t exist and the Inca made it up to trick the gold hungry spanish. P.S. Do more American Native history!!!!!
Karen G. Cibola isn't that from the 7 cities of gold myth In northern Mexico, I don't think thats the same myth as Eldorado. Eldorado came from South America.
Absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much for these Aztec documentaries. Really, you could discuss any aspects of Aztec culture and you would make it fascinating. Please could we just have more. Thank you
I've excavated in a Mayan ballcourt in Belize! The walls were low, so no hoops, and pretty small - I don't think you could fit two 5-men teams in it. It was situated right between a courtyard (where we later found a burial) and a palace.
Wow thats cool to hear! There seem to have been a ton of different versions of the game. I'd be very interested to find out how such small ball courts were used.
@@InvictaHistory I can try and find out from my professor if they have any ideas. The city we were excavating at was really small, so the gam probably didn't have the same pomp as bigger cities.
chavamara shoulda included that in your first comment, you paint two different ideas, guess they don't properly teach you how to explain what you know in college, just dig and do there bidding.
Thanks for these incredible videos on mesoamerican history, as a mexican, i can tell you we don't get taught all these things in school, i really appreciate it
I would love to hear more about mesoamerican entertainment and economics. Another big game that was played was Patolli, but aside from that and the ball game, what else did mesoamericans do for entertainment? Music? Plays/Dramas? Festivals and Cooked treats? Also, I know the aztecs and other mesoamerican empires (like the Egyptians) were not only great architects, but great water engineers in making great canals and irrigation networks, along with aqueduct-esque structures to control the flow of water between low to high points and over great distances. But how were these constructed and maintained, who did the labour, where did the resources come from, who paid and how did they pay for it, who organized and planned it, etc...?
Speaking for the Aztec, we have some examples of childern toys, such as dolls and wheeled toys in the shapes of animals, sort of like modern toy cars. And as the videos mentioned, gambling was a big thing. In general, though, much of the recreation would have been communal religious festivals, in which there would be dancing, singing,, and in some there would be more exotic stuff, such as children chasing each other around the city and trying to ambush each other as a game. As far as construction, i'm a little unclear on the logistics of that, but as part of tribute subordinate cities would often be required to assist with public construction projects, so that would be a part of it. I'd also guess that in addition to state/public construction projects, that nobles could fund and commission some privately, but i'm not sure on that (was a thing with some other mesoamerican groups_ We know that Texcoco's most famous king, Netzahualcoyotl, personally designed some aquaductt and dike systems around the core of the Aztec empire. I'm sure the iinfo about how construction was funded and how labor is supplied is out there, though, it seems like something the Florentine Codex would talk about.
Thank you for a very well done video! I was curious about this Aztec ball game, and you answered all my questions clearly, and with pictures of the real arenas.
Excelent work. There is also the Purepechan ballgame which is a sort of sand hockey in which sometimes the ball was set on fire. And there is the tarascan ball game in modern times which is weirdly similar to badminton and handball and voleyball. Both games are found in the same region. Michoacan. Part of the Tarascan empire of the post classic period but they could be much older. Congratulations brother!
Very much enjoying your videos on Mesoamerican life. Please consider putting together a video that discusses common life in the great cities, or even in the countryside, subjects such as: what was the difference in diet between commoners and nobles? Your work is appreciated!
I wonder if pre Columbian indigenous Americans were aware of the existence of tribes throughout the continents Like did the Inuits know of Comanches, Apaches and Navajo, did they know of the Aztecs, Mayans or Olmecs, did they know of the Incas or mapuches and did they know of Polynesians and Caribbean tribes?
There were definitely trade networks all up and down North and South America. Mexican obsidian has been found all over and confirmed with chemical analysis. Similarly, the Aztecs had legends of coming out of the north, and tribes in Utah have been found to have related languages to the Aztecs, so they probably had a vague knowledge of each other.
Likely not exact names. Since many people groups didn’t have diplomats to send to rival courts. It would be more of a vague understanding. Most common people in any society wouldn’t have much knowledge outside their own lives. But some might know a bit about the rest of the continent.
I don't know if it's true but I've read that the Aztecs probably did have some knowledge about the plains Indians and also that before arriving on the continent the Aztecs knew that strange men were in the Caribbean. Again I don't know if it's true but I've read it.
Depends on how close the tribe in question was to the other tribe in question. While the "old world" people were added by beasts of burden and technology, they also had less terrestrial obstacles dividing them from each other. They probably didn't know specifics, but they were probably aware of the other great empires spotted across North and South America. However if the Aztecs ever did actually meet the Natives of Chile, Incas, it would have more than likely would have sparcted a primitive WW3.
Thank for makes those videos about Mesoamerican culture, is good to see the history that is in part of my origin as latinamerican and mexican and is true that is not very know about the history of the prehipanic cultures with the excepcion of the aztecas and maya empire, keep with the good work Invicta
It's really depressing that we're not even 100% sure about how even something as common as the most popular sport on the continent was played. These societies kept written records, they had litterature and art that we don't even know about. But the Spainish and other European powers destroyed everything they had and as a result all we have are fragments, it's sad really.
Hey invicta, i was waching one of your total rome 2 online games on this channel from like a year ago literally just now and in it u said you were considering doing something on knockoff attempts and roman legions from other warlords. You said you didnt have enough knowledge on the topic back then but maybe you can do something on it now? Love your videos, and keep it up man
Glad to hear I'm not the only person that enjoyed the late hand-animated movies like Road to El Dorado. I liked Treasure Planet and others as well. I miss hand animation.
So the hoops were essentially like the target in Futurama's Blernsball (weird future version of softball) where if a batter successfully hits the ball into the hole placed in a billboard it triggers an automatic win for their team.
You should do a video about mesoamerican boxing also, it was big at the time. They often used glove made of seasnail spiked shell, metal or stone knuckles dusters. Because of this, they often worn helmet similar to modern padded boxing masks in shape, or ancient Greek helmets. Those helmet are sadly used to support ancient astronaut theories...
I played a modern version of this game with quiche maya kids at the first mayan school in guatemala to have a computer. I forget the name but it was way up in the mountains and we had to drive through a cloud to get there. The game began with a ceremony. the teams were about 8 to 10 players. points were scored by getting the ball into the opponent's "end zone" and they didnt have the little hoops to win the game so it was somewhat like soccer. you dont use your hands or feet because the number 10 is sacred, so the methods of striking are ; striking the ball with the forearm when its up in the air or has just bounced off the ground. striking the ball with distal part of the femur, just above the knee. this is done when the ball is in the air, has just bounced or when the ball is on the ground. this slick maneuver is done by running towards the ball full speed then lowering your body like you're going to kneel and skin your knee on the ground, which you probably will, and essentially kicking the ball but with your knee, shin and foot all tucked behind you, your foot plantarflexed so your toes dont scrape the ground. finally you can strike the ball with the hip. either when it is in the air, while standing or by another slick maneuver where you run towards the ball, plant one hand on the ground next to it, swing your hips under you, in a crab walk position, using the weight of your hips as a wrecking ball against the ball. I think if the ball bounces off your chest its find but its not really a "move" per se. and you did not use your head to hit the ball. remember the original balls were solid rubber and weighed like 4 pounds so you did not want that to come crashing into your head or cracking your sternum. Thats about the full extent of my knowledge about how the game is played. As for how our game went, we took an early lead, as the field was kinda small because there wasnt a whole lot of room on top of this particular mountain, and we were 8 teenaged americans against 8 little mayan kids none of which was over 12, most were less than 5 feet tall. Then we took a penalty cause one of our guys kicked the ball so we lost a point. I had to run down the gravel road down the mountain a few times to get the ball when the kids scored. The kids were so agile at pulling off those "slick maneuvers" getting down on the ground and back up and they were so fucking scrappy. like little girls and boys giving no fucks about taking a knee or an elbow while struggling for the ball and because they were smaller they usually got control of it first, easily outmaneuvering the big clumsy americans. After about 10 minutes the thin mountain air started getting to us and my muscles were exhausted from lack of oxygen. they started to really demolish us and they eventually had one guy from there bench post up in our "end zone" so we wouldnt have to run down to get the ball every time they scored. Anyway they won, by a lot. And we all were cut up and bruised but very thankful for the experience. The Maya are so kind and welcoming and generous. Also tough as nails, as hundreds of years of resisting spanish control has shown. The mesoamerican ball game is like a lost treasure, that we can recreate from historical sources.its a lot of fun and a killer workout. just try shooting on a soccer goal, but by getting down and slamming your hip into the ball. we need mesoamerican ball game youth leagues! Thank you for the video! TL;DR the ball game is fun as fuck you should try it!
Great video! There's so much about Mesoamerica that may people don't know, by the way, impossible to say that the winners were sacrificed, NOT everyone were sacrificed, not even with the aztecs. To kill a professiona player would have been a total waist. Love el Dorado and Chel especially :P
you would love to see the Xcaret representations. Xcaret is tematic park where at the last day they make a representation of this game. Just type "juego de pelota azteca" and you will find a lot of interesting videos.
Chichen Itza had many ball courts besides the main large one most people see when they visit. It's thought that that ball court in particular was purely ceremonial. It's really more like a temple to the ball game with intricate carvings of mythical ball game scenes on all the walls which are completely vertical with impossibly high and narrow hoops.
There's no way the winners were sacrificed. You'd have to have an entire team of people who were just pumped to get their heads lopped off to have a game where its not just a competition to see who can lose fastest.
Most sacrifices were from prisoners who lost. Sometimes during the big games (literal versions of the olympics) cities would compete / during religious events the winners would compete to be sacrificed. Most don't know this part of the story but the winners are thought to have lived a year or so before being sacrificed at the next events start. During this year they were treated as demigods and were thought to be sacrificed so they could play for their gods... Just stating this so everyone knows the current academic theory.
@@theghosthero6173 , in mesoamerican culture, there was no heaven or nirvana as such. death was regarded as an award for people, who worked all their lives, and could finally go to rest. and being sacrificed was also tought of as a honor to their gods and to people.
I would love to follow this subject as it’s fascinating to learn about social concepts. Considering how old these civilisations are this game could have been played for thousands of years. One of few in-depth videos on the subject and something I didn’t learn at school!
![[Q&A Podcast] Misunderstood Moments in History - Rise of the Aztecs](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/g4mFK5AFP7s/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Q&A Podcast] Misunderstood Moments in History - Rise of the Aztecs](/img/tr.png)
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Honestly I really appreciate you just saying that you don’t know or could be mistaken instead of the absolutism most other youtubers use.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes!
El darado was such an underrated film, I had it on vhs as a kid and watched it all the time.
Imperialx Warlord chel was THICC
MY BROTHER!
I have searched all the New World for you!
Don't worry, I also like Atlantis the Lost Empire, even had it on VHS. So if you need to, you can point at me and say;
"At least I am not as bad as him!"
I remember it, too. I should rewatch it one of these years...
I still love it! Laugh my ass off whenever I watch it!
Dorado not darado
I've always thought the most plausible option was that sacrifices of either team were reserved for rare occasions, since it's kinda impossible to develop a class of professional ball players if one of your teammates (or even your entire team) is killed off every time you lose a game.
either that or they had a regular season of sorts and only sacrificed during very special games like a championship or something
Yeah, there wouldn't be any men left in the village!
I think they practiced a lot and only had official games, to resolve matters of state, rather rarely. But someone was sacrificed everytime. Because it was so important!
a key piece of Mexica belief was that "sacrifice" didnt always mean "killing" and in most cases, blood-letting was enough of a sacrifice to a particular deity. sacrifices were done for so many different reasons, its an irritatingly long list. sacrificial offerings could be given also by burning objects of significance, as the smoke was said to carry the remains into the spirit world. and most importantly, when lives were taken, sacrifices of the pious in the faith of their god meant infinitely more than some random captive of another faith. furthermore, not all in the pantheon required sacrifice (but those that did couldnt get enough lol)
They killed people like it was nothing, they ate people too. You could buy human meat in the local markets. No wonder the Europeans were horrified and wanted to wipe them out
"Tulio, the hip, the hip!"
Time Stamps:
1:25 - Sources of Evidence
2:29 - The Ballcourt
3:13 - The Rules
6:04 - The Players
7:14 - The Crowds
8:01 - Role in Society
Invicta love your videos, and your passion for history. Keep up the good work.
I read once that the losers were sacrificed because it represents a history from the popol vu where some brothers has to win the same ball game so they can stay alive and continue they journey.
Invicta, this was amazing. I'd love to see more historical fiction reviews. There are many shows and movie's, but either way, love your videos!
When will the history of the Roman legions videos be continued
The game is actually called "Ulama" and it is still played to some extent in Mexico and Belize.
ruclips.net/video/J-RW4JJZvDs/видео.html (example of Ulama being played)
When I visited Chichen Itza last year, I saw the stadium they used to play that game and frankly, I was astonished. I don't think you realize how difficult this game must have been until you see an actual stadium.
First, the hoop is super high, even for me who is 1m85, so I could only imagine how it was for them considering they were probably much smaller than us today, right? Second, there is a slope that goes out of the wall a good one meter and so while it makes it easier to run up the wall, it also means you can't stand parallel to the hoop. Every shot had to be angled to some degree. Finally, the hoop is TINY while the stadium was huge! It's just meters and meters of wall with one tiny hoop on it!
So yeah, definitely a hardcore game. Great vide on it Invicta!
This is Barris! - French History no. Much shorter. Humans are taller now than they were. On average. Obviously certain people groups buck the trend. But native Americans especially developing in jungles and mountains and highlands would lead towards being shorter on average.
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 actually they weren't all that short. Especially by the standards of the time. Most Mesoamerican populations were 5'6" on average (average height for men globally at the time was anywhere from 5'4" - 5'8"). In many accounts by Europeans the natives are described as being tall. In many drawings/paintings natives are portrayed to be even taller than Europeans at the time. Height has already been proven to be directly linked to overall protein consumption over your lifetime. This means height is flexible (at least from generation to generation). The reason natives are seen as short nowadays is because their populations have been dwindled to nothing, hundreds of years of enslavement, starvation, malnourishment, etc. meant their average height wouldn't be going up. If anything it would get lower in some instances. Not to mention prior to their enslavement they were conquered. That typically means the strongest and the tallest of your men (the warriors) die in large numbers. Not even just the men thanks to disease, which did most of the killing. Then you get a bottleneck effect where the remaining natives no longer represent the original population because they've lost a lot of genetic variation. Take that small population and malnourish them for centuries and boom you get a bunch of people that on average are shorter than people who have been eating proper diets. Not all that surprising. If you go to Mexico there are still some smaller isolated tribes that still retain their height. The yaqui were never fully conquered, they were merely assimilated over time. They are exceptionally tall. Most are over 6'. There's also a large population of direct descendants of Aztecs in Queretaro, and they're pretty tall.
I don’t know where I read it, but once I read that plains natives were some of the tallest people on earth, taller than the average European of the day, not sure if that’s true though but it is interesting!
@@Coelacantha yes it is true that plain/equestrian Indians at the time of European colonization were among the tallest men on the planet with an average height of around 5'11". That is no longer the case, obviously, with the tallest people being northern Europeans nowadays.
@Blackknight1212 yeah I knew I read it somewhere!😆
I remember being told while on vacation in Mexico that the reason for the hips and certain other body parts being used is because the ball was quite heavy and would damage hands and feet once it got moving.
I thought the same - I mean, solid rubber, it would be like kicking a heavy duty tyre
so it was less the rules and more of you gonna brake your wrist if you try.
Modern recreations revealed people getting bruises on their hips. So I second this.
Indeed, if u have the oportunity to touch and "play" with these ancient balls made of primary organic rubber you would see that even they bounce a lot, they are quite tough
This game looks like its impossible to play. I imagine that the reason why it didn’t get picked up by the conquistadors is because they just got frustrated trying to play it.
It looks super tough! Here you can see a bit of a modern recreation: ruclips.net/video/u2GueDXPOYU/видео.html
@@InvictaHistory ruclips.net/video/oYJxng6i4NQ/видео.html
This looks like the other version of the game
Imperialx Warlord well I bet the Aztecs would have looked at our sports and thought they were difficult too 😂
David miorgan That might also explain it, but I think my reason is better 😂
Probably because there was sacrifice involved the game needed to be hard so nobody could claim cheating
I’m so happy that you mentioned “The Road to El Dorado”, that movie is a total masterpiece.
Love this one and Atlantis!
@@InvictaHistory Yes, The Road To El Dorado is REALLY good! but the myth of El Dorado is from muiscas a much smaller group that lived in Colombia not Mexico. I loved the movie as a child but it was confusing to me because they mixed different things. I really like your videos, hope to see more about these themes
It's pretty racist.
@@Humanities107 uh oh blah blah, dumbass, you must be really fun at the parties.
@@Humanities107 also how is it racist?
I'm in the eleventh grade and of all the history classes I've had, only a week was spent learning about mesoamerican history, it's sad.
Because they're too busy craming slavery and hitler down your throats, they rather have a world focused on division, then a world focused on actual history.
Probably because it's history of the U.S. and not Mexico. In Spanish, you learn about Mesoamerican stuff.
THEGR3ATDVAKIIN 135 I've taken many World History classes as well as U.S. History.
@@Young-bx2pf yah me too I've tooken human geography and wrld geo only Spanish class covers this
From Romans to Aztecs, this channel never stops getting better! Could you do something about the incas in the future? :)
So as somebody with a big interest in Mesoamerican history, while I have to give Invicta a HUGE amount of props for the last video, which is easily among best video on Mesoamerican history on youtube, but I was pretty appalled by a lot of the comments I was saying from people who clearly did not watch the video. I want to take time to debunk and break down a lot of the misinfo I was seeing: I will first address people calling Mesoamerican groups "tribes". They were not: They were urban, state societies.
The earliest Mesoamerican city dates back to 1400 BC, or almost 3000 years prior to contact with Europeans. Writing was developed by around 1000 BC, with writing systems becoming common by 500 BC, and you had urban cities popping up all over the place around that time as well. By the turn of the millennium, city-states and empires were the norm in the region. In fact, the Maya city of El Mirador had a population of around 100,000 people in 300 BC, being in the same class of cities like Alexandria, or Rhodes in the same period and rivaling Athens at it's height. In general, Mesoameerican cities during the classic (200 AD to 800 AD) and postclassic (200 AD to 1521 AD, though this is misleading due to reasons I won'tt get into here) had population sizes comparable to those from Europe's Iron Age age and Early Classical Antiquity, and even Contemporary 16th century europe: the average Mesoamerican city had around 15,000 inhabitants, and the largest hit 100,000 to 200,000, such as El Mirador, Teotihuacan, and Tenochtitlan.
These cities were not just large villages, either: You had plazas, streets, marketplaces, temples, palaces, built with stone, plastered with lime stucco and finely painted with murals and frescos (though, lower social classes would have simpler homes, as was the case in Europe and Asia); quite often water management systems with aqueducts, drainage pipes or canals, reservoir systems etc: There were formal governments, and political and legal systems, and clear social stratification: You had royalty, nobility, merchants, artisans, poets and musicians, etc. Political marriaages, wars of successon, and the like were common. The most famous King of the Aztec city of Texcoco, Nezahualcoyotl, for instance, was a noted poet, philosopher, patron of the arts, and designed a vaariety of aquaduct and dike systems around the core of the Aztec empire, including Tenochtitlan's dual piped aqueduct which could close one pipe off while the other raan for cleaning, or the system that fed water into his royal gardens and palace that brought water from a mountain range all the way to a pair of hills near texcoco, where it crossed the huge gorge between them with a stone aquaduct, which circuited around the second hill, dropping water off via artificial waterfalls in the garden at key points.
Another big piece of misinfo was that the Aztec Triple Alliance, or, the most powerful of the 3 ruling triple alliance cities, Tenochtitlan (and it's inhabitants, the Mexica) in particular, was so bad and evil and terrorized the rest of the region with sacrifice that they sided with the Spanish. This is a gross misunderstanding of the geopolitical factors at play. as well as Mesoamerican religious norms. To begin with, the vast maajority of sacrifices were captured enemy soldiers. Recent excavations of the primary site were the skulls of sacrificial victims were stored in Tenochtittlan from this paast year have shown that 75% of the skulls were males between the age of 20 and 35. At Teotihuacan, the number hits 90%. In general, the most impressive thing a soldier could do in combat is to caapture the enemy alive to sacrifice later, not to kill them in battle. So most (but admittedly not all) sacrifices were people who would have died in Eurasian conflicts anyways. On that note, EVERYBODY sacrificed people in the region. It is a universal constant in Mesoamerican religion, present in even the earliest Olmec cities.
The exact practices and cultural context varied, but blood worsphip and sacrifice was universally practiced, though as I said, the sacrifice of enemy soldiers was very common. Sacrifice also happened at far smaller scales then most people realize: the majority of religious offerings were food, objects, animal sacrifices, or human blood from self-inflicted blood letting. Fatal sacrifice was important and socially systemic, to be sure, but the scales for most groups would have been in the range of tens, *maybe* low hundreds annually if there was a particularly successful series of military campaigns for a larger city. Now, Tenochtitlan WAS unique in that did mass scale sacrifices on a larger scale and frequency then any other Mesoamerican groups: But this too is likely limited to hundreds or low thousands annually: Even Cortes, who had EVERY reason to exaggerate the barbarity of native cultures and is known tto have done so, since his letters were him explicitly appealing to the Crown to avoid execution for his actions, only states they sacrificed 3000 to 4000 people a year: It was likely even less then this, and, again, recall that most would have been enemy soldiers. In fact, for tthe Mexica, it NEEDED tto mostly be: Their entire state religious dogma was based around their war god, who had become the sun in the current incarnation of the world, needing the blood of their enemies to keep the world from ending, which was used to justify their military expansion: The idea that the Aztec raided enemy cities and enslaved and sacrificed women and childern or farmers is directly contradicting their impetus for their sacrifices to begin with: They captured enemy warriors, and their enemies captured and sacrificed Aztec warriors, too.
Why did so many cities side with the Spanish, then, if not sacrifices? The answer is mostly geopolitical opportunism: Larger states, like the Aztecs, almost universally existed as networks of vassals and tributaries that still maintained their own internal governance, connected under a single or set of ruling cities that kept their power via either political connections, prestige/respect, and implied military retribution if their vassals didn't toe the line. If of military weakness was shown,or a loss of trust, or political instability, 1 or 2 cities rebuking the dominant one would cause others to follow suit, fracturing the entire thing. This varied of course, the Maya familial dynastic kingdoms and the Aztec empire had differences, for instance, but bottom line they both shared this "hands off" political web approach for the most part. So, prestige, influence, ancestry, and ability to project your military might were paramount to maintaining your own power. Even huge superpower like the Aztecs were vulnerable to their tributaries just ceasing to respect them if they showed weakness. untrustworthyness, and so on.
This is basically what happened: Only a few cities, such as Cempoala and Tlaxcalaa, sided with the Spanish initially, and this had to do with grievances such as feeling overtaxed and being the victim of blockades and invasions, respectively. Other cities only joined in AFTER Tenochtitlan was hit by smallpox, it's king killed, and the region's geopolitics being thrown into chaos as a result. Furthermore, the final siege against Tenochtittlan had only 8-10 cities or so on the Spanish''s side: The immediate area around Tenochtitlan had 30 cities alone, the region as a whole with hundreds: There was not this universal push against Aztec oppression, and as Invicta's video even mentioned, the ruling Aztec triple alliance generally lett their conquered cities retain their rulers, laws, culture, etc, as long as they got paid annual tribute: In fact, they avoided killing civilians and destroying farmland or buildings, as they WANTED conquered cities to still have the population and infrastructure t produce the goods they would give in tribute:
Was the Aztec a expansionist, militaristic empire? Yes. But so was Rome, China at multiple points, Persia, Greece under Alexander, etc. The Mesoamericans sacrificed people, yes: But the Greeks committed pedastry, and almost all of Europe and the Middle east was filled with religiously motivated persecutions, conflicts, and killings, etc. The Mesoamericans and Aztecs were not uniquely awful: They, like all other civilizations, had moments of both greatness and savagery. They just diid their bad stuff in a particular spectacular fashion.
Wow, this is an excellent and enlightening comment. Are you a researcher in the field? By the way, I also feel like there's a type of misleading view towards the Aztecs in the sense of their savagery, hence we don't often see the acts of the Catholic church the same way, and even the sacrifices in the Nordic religion are not considered as the result of some barbaric people.
I would like to discuss more about this subject. Sorry if I made any mistakes in the text, I'm not an English speaker.
You mentioned the name Mexica once, you should’ve done that every time instead of Aztecs
@@tyrson4331Mexica isn't entirely interchangeable with Aztec as terms: Basically, Nahua is the culture most cities in tthe Basin/Valley of Mexico and who formed the core cities of the empire belonged to. Mexica is the specific nahua subgroup that lived in Tenochtitlan-Tlatelolco, and then "Aztec" is more or less an invented term from the modern era that when translated literally from Nahuatl is basically synonymous with Nahuas, but is typically used to either refer to the mexica specifically, the ruling triple alliance, or the empire as a whole, including subordinate tributaries.
then that is something that you would rather remember, I am completely aware that in the history of humanity there are no angels or demons, but the "situation" that leads each one to act in one way or another, in Eurasia, most of us had left tribalism and sacrifices (yes, there were also here) and most religious persecutions were only harassed by political causes and a situation of constant war or diseases such as the Black Plague and the Bubonic Plague added to a population increasingly difficult to feed. Do not pretend to make us believe that opening the chest to people to get the heart out was acceptable when it was institutionalized and was the norm while the burn of witches was almost always by illiterate villagers or by political interest of a tyrant like Mary Tudor, remember this well when you try to sanctify the pre-Columbian empires (I do not speak of small tribes)
you look like a man who knows what you are talking about, it hurts you to tell him so misrepresented, you have not mentioned the Xōchiyaoyōtl or the fate of the peoples that helped the conquerors (a much better fate than the first tribes of the Caribbean), if you want to know with which I compare the conquest of the New World, I will tell you that for me it is most similar to the Gallic Wars with Julio Caesar, as well as the final and subsequent conquest.
Hi from Cancun, Mexico.
At least four versions have made it to the present day:
Flat-Field ball game is reverse dodgeball: two teams face each other (staying on their own side), trying to make the ball roll beyond the other team.
Sloped-wall ball game: each team would climb on a wall and retain control of the ball until they had scored, the ball touched the hoop at all, time, or the team incurred a penalty (most likely being touching the ball with head or limbs).
Vertical-wall ball game: Same rules as the last one, but much more likely to be the popular, commoner game. It also easily allows to play with a single hoop simply by taking turns.
Purepecha ball game: played with a smaller and much denser rubber ball (often covered in rope) or simply a ball of wood, set on fire, and contact with the ball was made with sticks. The game is basically field hockey, without goals (other than the end zones) or goalies, and with the added thrill that the ball sputters and may explode.
As per Chichen Itza, I believe the current theory is that the hoops were purely symbolic of the fact that the court is for playing ball game, and the actual game was some form of flat-field ball game. This partially due to the hoops being extremely high up, and the fact that there are elevated walkways along the sides of the field, which would significantly increase difficulty to the game if the game was supposed to be wall game.
If you want better images and videos for your video, try using the search terms "pok ta pok", "juego de pelota", "juego de pelota purepecha" and "xcaret juego de pelota". Do remember that this is living history for us.
0:58 Oh, I see why it's one of your favorites.
The road to el Dorado is one of my favorite movies of all time. Really underrated movie from DreamWorks
Agreed! I'm always amazed when people say they haven't seen this one or Atlantis.
It should be called Cheldorado amirite?
Road to El Dorado was absolutely Amazing
You mean "is absolutely amazing".
Just found this channel and I'm loving the mesoamerican history. It's something you don't hear about a whole lot even though it's very complex, interesting, and there's still a lot of impressive ruins all around Mexico (and central America, for the Mayans). Subscribed! Keep up the good work!
I think it's admirable that you dedicate time to explain your sources. It's something I feel is lacking in a lot of other history focused youtube channels. Keep up the great work!
Something I think you forgot to mention is that the game actually never disappeared. It is called "ulama" and was preserved in the state of Sinaloa, where it is still played. Actually, most of the information we know ablut the rules of the game come from studying the descendant game that is played in Sinaloa where three variants exist: hips, forearms and one played with some kind of hammer. That makes the game the oldest ball sport that has been continually played in the world. Some people have tried to make it more widespread and my university actually has a team. Last week I went there to learn how to play it.
This is a great video - I will show this to my 4th graders before my lesson of MesoAmerica! The ballgame really engages students in this culture. Thanks!
Hats off to Invicta. Such a quality channel. I'm in the Yucutan right now and saw one of these courts yesterday. Great info!
My main question about the sacrifices is their frequency. The fact that we have some evidence doesn't mean that it was common practice. Quite the contrary in fact. People tend to report exceptional events, non common facts. Ancient written sources can be very misleading. We shouldn't extrapolate too much. Obviously, the game was common. But the sacrifices of one team might have been reserved for very special occasions or only in specific places and times. For instance, it wouldn't be too surprising after a major match between two kingdoms, when diplomatic affairs are a stake. But on an ordinary encounter, it would have been a terrible waste of good and renowned men. Sacrificing defeated ennemies is relatively pleasant, but I doubt any people would have killed its own nobility lightly, even though taking risk is an important component of the aristocratic mindset.
And, as many have already pointed out, it's difficult to achieve a professional level if one team is systematically executed.
I think you are thinking about this from a modern western perspective. They viewed life very differently, especially the Aztecs. Sacrificing strong blood on a very important event would have been seen as a huge boon.
@@dominicmanester8125 Anyway, everybody has some sort of survival instinct. And even though human sacrifices were practiced all over America, massive killings such as those committed by the Aztecs weren't that common. They happened during a relatively short period of time, in a restricted area.
By the way. In the long run, mass murders of your own population are suicidal for a society. It simply can't last long or exposes you to be overwhelmed by more reasonable foes.
It possible that some cities made a systematic rule to sacrifice the losing team. It's probable that most of them had milder rules and reserved sacrifices for special occasions.
Mass murder was more common than you seem to think since blood was very important for the Aztecs though they only killed their own on important events like the solstice. Slaves and enemy tribes are fair game for mass sacrifices where the steps of the temple would run with the blood of sacrifices.
I've been to Chichen Itza, and the flloor at the top of the pyramid is still stained THICK with blood hundreds of years later
The Aztecs developed the macuahuitl, which become their primary weapon. It was designed to disable their enemies rather than kill them so that they could be sacrificed later.
Loved El Dorado!! Remember seeing it in theaters actually, thanks for another dose of high quality content, I love learning about ancient societies and you do a great job at presenting information in an easily palatable way. Thank you!
Ah I lost again bummer... Maybe next time! Well I'm going home to eat the Acient Meso-armerican equivalent of Doritos sweet chilly heat. have fun at the sacrifice guys!
Thanks for making this video! Meso American history is seldom treated in this kind of channels. This game is incredibly interesting. I wish people here in Colombia played it.
Loving these mesoamerican videos!
Happy to see the Copan court included in the video! Thank you for the great videos and hope you cover the rest of the Aztecs in Central America
Wtf? Aztecs they were not of Central America.
Aztecs inhabited Mexico. Mayans were in central Mexico and inhabited all of Central America. Not sure about Panama though because Panama had their own native flair
YES, MORE PRE-COLUMBIAN HISTORY!
Kudos to you for exploring the forgotten hemisphere.
Aztec, were already in advance of their time...They already had protection in sports!
Mayan, idiot.
steve rangon
the game was played by both, as was all mesoamerica
They kinda had to cause I don't think anyone would finish the game
Lots of cultures in the world were advanced or could reach that point, but human necessity and greed... so war and of course conquer...
I visited chichen itza a few years back and saw a reenactment of the game by some natives. So much energy and movement required with fire pots everywhere, pretty badass
Oh thats quite awesome 👍
Imagine if those empires would be independent today. I wonder how much of a tourist traps they would be
If the losing or the winning team died after the game then how where there professional players.
To become a good player at any game you must lose at least one game at some point in your career.
I think it was symbolic.
Because it did not happen, the people who were sacrificed were not real players, they were war captives who would take part in a fake game, sort of like a play. Actual professional players would not be sacrificed.
Of course not all players were killed, not even all cities made human sacrifices, there were ceremonial ball courts and recreative ones. It is speculated that big cities like Chichen Itza had tournaments once a year that ended near the winter solstice. Teams and spectators from cities and villages from all over yucatan arrived to play and pay tribute (that´s why the ball court in Chichen was so big). It was a ceremony that lasted weeks. The player or team that came out victorious were worshipped as demigods and lived luxurious lives until their sacrifice (maybe at the end of the tournament the next year). Remember it was a privilege to be offered to the gods, so all teenagers would practice a lot to be professional ball players like their heroes... much like professional football players today.... minus the being killed part
Nicki Martz thank you man
you need yo understand that they plaid for fun too
They have it wrong, players where slaves and the WINNING team was sacrificed, why would you give a loser to the gods?
Thank you for focusing on Mesoamerican history! There’s a massive gap of representation between european and Mesoamerican ancient history
Dear invicta, I'm glad you're taking such interest in mesoamerican culture, not sure if you've checked out "popol vuh" wich is the ancient mayan creation myth. It narrates the story of a couple of brothers, ball game players, sons of another ball game player all of them get invited by the gods due to their ball game skills. Don't want to spoil it, so I will stop there. Lets just say that it gets violent and tricky. Hope you enjoy
That sounds fun
Quite, I was suprised there was no mention of the importance of this game to their creation myth.
It great to hear that channels like you are talking about the history of my people. I am Maya and I want to learn more about my people, and find out more that are not being told in history classes. Keep up the good work.
At Chichen Itza Ball Court there's an exception, because it is the only place where some kind of baseball bat and equipment were used.
You can go to the ball court yourself and see the pictures on stone of the guys playing with equipment, ask to a Guide.
P.d. I went to Chichen Itza two times this year
i am so glad you are making videos about mesoamerican culture and history.
The sheer extent of the sacrifices as well as the willingness to sacrifice themselves and loved ones as common practice in the Aztec world continues to perplex me.
Paititi was the name of the city in Qechuan. The Incans are the civilization in which the legend of El Dorado, as the spanish called it, originated from. The Spanish lerned about it, supposedly located in the Amazon forest and launched expoditions to find it. Never did.
City of gold yet to be found. It most likely doesn’t exist and the Inca made it up to trick the gold hungry spanish.
P.S. Do more American Native history!!!!!
and Cibola? Are they the same thing or what?
Karen G.
Cibola isn't that from the 7 cities of gold myth In northern Mexico,
I don't think thats the same myth as Eldorado. Eldorado came from South America.
Love your channel, can you do a video with the Olmecs? Thanks
Absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much for these Aztec documentaries. Really, you could discuss any aspects of Aztec culture and you would make it fascinating. Please could we just have more. Thank you
Oh baby I love this channel
I've excavated in a Mayan ballcourt in Belize! The walls were low, so no hoops, and pretty small - I don't think you could fit two 5-men teams in it. It was situated right between a courtyard (where we later found a burial) and a palace.
Wow thats cool to hear! There seem to have been a ton of different versions of the game. I'd be very interested to find out how such small ball courts were used.
@@InvictaHistory I can try and find out from my professor if they have any ideas. The city we were excavating at was really small, so the gam probably didn't have the same pomp as bigger cities.
chavamara shoulda included that in your first comment, you paint two different ideas, guess they don't properly teach you how to explain what you know in college, just dig and do there bidding.
Thanks for these incredible videos on mesoamerican history, as a mexican, i can tell you we don't get taught all these things in school, i really appreciate it
I love watching this sport! Good thing it hasn't died in southern Mexico.
Invicta, l love you man. Thanks for all your work.
I would love to hear more about mesoamerican entertainment and economics.
Another big game that was played was Patolli, but aside from that and the ball game, what else did mesoamericans do for entertainment?
Music? Plays/Dramas? Festivals and Cooked treats?
Also, I know the aztecs and other mesoamerican empires (like the Egyptians) were not only great architects, but great water engineers in making great canals and irrigation networks, along with aqueduct-esque structures to control the flow of water between low to high points and over great distances.
But how were these constructed and maintained, who did the labour, where did the resources come from, who paid and how did they pay for it, who organized and planned it, etc...?
dogmirian The Egyptian are mesoamerican?
@@htoodoh5770 No XD, the mesoamericans and the egyptians were well known for their hydroengineering XP
Speaking for the Aztec, we have some examples of childern toys, such as dolls and wheeled toys in the shapes of animals, sort of like modern toy cars. And as the videos mentioned, gambling was a big thing. In general, though, much of the recreation would have been communal religious festivals, in which there would be dancing, singing,, and in some there would be more exotic stuff, such as children chasing each other around the city and trying to ambush each other as a game.
As far as construction, i'm a little unclear on the logistics of that, but as part of tribute subordinate cities would often be required to assist with public construction projects, so that would be a part of it. I'd also guess that in addition to state/public construction projects, that nobles could fund and commission some privately, but i'm not sure on that (was a thing with some other mesoamerican groups_ We know that Texcoco's most famous king, Netzahualcoyotl, personally designed some aquaductt and dike systems around the core of the Aztec empire. I'm sure the iinfo about how construction was funded and how labor is supplied is out there, though, it seems like something the Florentine Codex would talk about.
Thank you for continuing your Mesoamerica series
Thank you for a very well done video! I was curious about this Aztec ball game, and you answered all my questions clearly, and with pictures of the real arenas.
Really enjoying these. Will we be getting similar videos on the Inca, some time in the future?
Inkas are weaks as hell
@@boxmx1246 go back on reddit
Excelent work. There is also the Purepechan ballgame which is a sort of sand hockey in which sometimes the ball was set on fire. And there is the tarascan ball game in modern times which is weirdly similar to badminton and handball and voleyball. Both games are found in the same region. Michoacan. Part of the Tarascan empire of the post classic period but they could be much older. Congratulations brother!
The importance of blood and the body reminds me of mana in Polynesian and Austronesian lore.
I love the hypothesis on the game vs. stadium type. I could see it.
Amazing and interesting as always. A topic suggestion I have is the Aztec game of Patolli, since almost no videos exist on it.
Very much enjoying your videos on Mesoamerican life. Please consider putting together a video that discusses common life in the great cities, or even in the countryside, subjects such as: what was the difference in diet between commoners and nobles? Your work is appreciated!
I been to one ball park in Chichen Itza Mexico. It was very cool
Excellent video as always. The art in your videos rocks, talented and skilled artists. Well done
I wonder if pre Columbian indigenous Americans were aware of the existence of tribes throughout the continents
Like did the Inuits know of Comanches, Apaches and Navajo, did they know of the Aztecs, Mayans or Olmecs, did they know of the Incas or mapuches and did they know of Polynesians and Caribbean tribes?
There were definitely trade networks all up and down North and South America. Mexican obsidian has been found all over and confirmed with chemical analysis. Similarly, the Aztecs had legends of coming out of the north, and tribes in Utah have been found to have related languages to the Aztecs, so they probably had a vague knowledge of each other.
Likely not exact names. Since many people groups didn’t have diplomats to send to rival courts. It would be more of a vague understanding. Most common people in any society wouldn’t have much knowledge outside their own lives. But some might know a bit about the rest of the continent.
I don't know if it's true but I've read that the Aztecs probably did have some knowledge about the plains Indians and also that before arriving on the continent the Aztecs knew that strange men were in the Caribbean. Again I don't know if it's true but I've read it.
Depends on how close the tribe in question was to the other tribe in question.
While the "old world" people were added by beasts of burden and technology, they also had less terrestrial obstacles dividing them from each other.
They probably didn't know specifics, but they were probably aware of the other great empires spotted across North and South America. However if the Aztecs ever did actually meet the Natives of Chile, Incas, it would have more than likely would have sparcted a primitive WW3.
@ZaqueHunzahua I was today years old when I found out there was a badass Aztec like pyramid in fuckin Illinois holy shit
Hey someone should bring it back to live, it's an awesome sport.
it‘a played in parts of mexico but as a show because it’s to dangerous for unprofessionals.
Glad asf you loved el dorado, I have the tracks memorized. Such movie gold so buried many people dont know about it 😭
Ah, el dorado, my favorite animated movie. Great video man.
Thank for makes those videos about Mesoamerican culture, is good to see the history that is in part of my origin as latinamerican and mexican and is true that is not very know about the history of the prehipanic cultures with the excepcion of the aztecas and maya empire, keep with the good work Invicta
This was such a great video. Have you considered making similar videos on other historical sports?
I have thought of doing videos on various games in the past which may end up including various other sports
Please cover more meso-american topics! That would be amazing👍👍😄
I too was fascinated by this sport when I saw El Dorado. Like how were they able play this game? Nice video dude.
I was told by the tour guide in Chichenitza that the players occasionaly used hand clubs to play this game. Have you seen any evidence on that?
I gave a lesson about the meso-Americans with this movie. And It was one of the most interesting lessons I gave so far.
Very good documentary on this game.
It's really depressing that we're not even 100% sure about how even something as common as the most popular sport on the continent was played. These societies kept written records, they had litterature and art that we don't even know about. But the Spainish and other European powers destroyed everything they had and as a result all we have are fragments, it's sad really.
I'm loving this Aztec videos!
Very well done!!
I would suggest a focus on the School system/ the structure and the word: Calmecac
i know that getting sacrificed was a big honour back than. it meant that your life brought the community better times, and rain for the food ect.
I was told as a child in Mexico that the winners were sacrificed and that it was a great honor and guaranteed a pleasant passage to the afterlife
Hey invicta, i was waching one of your total rome 2 online games on this channel from like a year ago literally just now and in it u said you were considering doing something on knockoff attempts and roman legions from other warlords. You said you didnt have enough knowledge on the topic back then but maybe you can do something on it now? Love your videos, and keep it up man
I've been keeping that idea of "imitation legions" in my back pocket. I think I've got enough information on it to do an episode eventually.
Extremely interesting, I'm glad there was an absence of crazy theories and unverified nonsense which so often plague "historical" videos.
You got the pronunciations right good job loved this video
Glad to hear I'm not the only person that enjoyed the late hand-animated movies like Road to El Dorado. I liked Treasure Planet and others as well. I miss hand animation.
So the hoops were essentially like the target in Futurama's Blernsball (weird future version of softball) where if a batter successfully hits the ball into the hole placed in a billboard it triggers an automatic win for their team.
You should do a video about mesoamerican boxing also, it was big at the time. They often used glove made of seasnail spiked shell, metal or stone knuckles dusters. Because of this, they often worn helmet similar to modern padded boxing masks in shape, or ancient Greek helmets. Those helmet are sadly used to support ancient astronaut theories...
When i was living in New Jersey when i was younger i had the road to el dorado on vhs and i remember watching the movie on the TV
I was JUST watching The Road to El Dorado yesterday and then this showed up. OOOOOOHHHHH MAN
I actually had this on VHS and destroyed it by watching it too many times and then I got a DVD of it and the same happened
I played a modern version of this game with quiche maya kids at the first mayan school in guatemala to have a computer. I forget the name but it was way up in the mountains and we had to drive through a cloud to get there. The game began with a ceremony. the teams were about 8 to 10 players. points were scored by getting the ball into the opponent's "end zone" and they didnt have the little hoops to win the game so it was somewhat like soccer.
you dont use your hands or feet because the number 10 is sacred, so the methods of striking are ; striking the ball with the forearm when its up in the air or has just bounced off the ground. striking the ball with distal part of the femur, just above the knee. this is done when the ball is in the air, has just bounced or when the ball is on the ground. this slick maneuver is done by running towards the ball full speed then lowering your body like you're going to kneel and skin your knee on the ground, which you probably will, and essentially kicking the ball but with your knee, shin and foot all tucked behind you, your foot plantarflexed so your toes dont scrape the ground.
finally you can strike the ball with the hip. either when it is in the air, while standing or by another slick maneuver where you run towards the ball, plant one hand on the ground next to it, swing your hips under you, in a crab walk position, using the weight of your hips as a wrecking ball against the ball.
I think if the ball bounces off your chest its find but its not really a "move" per se. and you did not use your head to hit the ball. remember the original balls were solid rubber and weighed like 4 pounds so you did not want that to come crashing into your head or cracking your sternum.
Thats about the full extent of my knowledge about how the game is played. As for how our game went, we took an early lead, as the field was kinda small because there wasnt a whole lot of room on top of this particular mountain, and we were 8 teenaged americans against 8 little mayan kids none of which was over 12, most were less than 5 feet tall. Then we took a penalty cause one of our guys kicked the ball so we lost a point. I had to run down the gravel road down the mountain a few times to get the ball when the kids scored. The kids were so agile at pulling off those "slick maneuvers" getting down on the ground and back up and they were so fucking scrappy. like little girls and boys giving no fucks about taking a knee or an elbow while struggling for the ball and because they were smaller they usually got control of it first, easily outmaneuvering the big clumsy americans. After about 10 minutes the thin mountain air started getting to us and my muscles were exhausted from lack of oxygen. they started to really demolish us and they eventually had one guy from there bench post up in our "end zone" so we wouldnt have to run down to get the ball every time they scored.
Anyway they won, by a lot. And we all were cut up and bruised but very thankful for the experience. The Maya are so kind and welcoming and generous. Also tough as nails, as hundreds of years of resisting spanish control has shown. The mesoamerican ball game is like a lost treasure, that we can recreate from historical sources.its a lot of fun and a killer workout. just try shooting on a soccer goal, but by getting down and slamming your hip into the ball. we need mesoamerican ball game youth leagues! Thank you for the video! TL;DR the ball game is fun as fuck you should try it!
Your logo is so dope. I havent even watched the video but I subbed
Hey dude sad you left tw. But I am happy for ur success as a history channel. Keep up the great content
Great video! There's so much about Mesoamerica that may people don't know, by the way, impossible to say that the winners were sacrificed, NOT everyone were sacrificed, not even with the aztecs. To kill a professiona player would have been a total waist.
Love el Dorado and Chel especially :P
you would love to see the Xcaret representations. Xcaret is tematic park where at the last day they make a representation of this game. Just type "juego de pelota azteca" and you will find a lot of interesting videos.
Very good work!
I saw the ruins of one of those "pitches" and then i spent an hour looking this up. I'd love to try the game but i don't wanna loose and die
Chichen Itza had many ball courts besides the main large one most people see when they visit. It's thought that that ball court in particular was purely ceremonial. It's really more like a temple to the ball game with intricate carvings of mythical ball game scenes on all the walls which are completely vertical with impossibly high and narrow hoops.
They play this during their show at Xcaret here in the Riviera Maya. Also they play another game that's similar to hockey, but with the ball on fire.
Excellent video, keep up
the whole getting sacrificed thing makes it a lot more interesting to watch
There will be no sacrifices! Not now, not ever!
Great video! Always wondered about these ball games myself
Are you saying "eye" or "alley" at 2:52?
"I", cause it's shaped like the letter "I"
@@sean668 ohhhhh,now eye see :))
The city of chichen Itza was a Mayan civilization. Just to make sure y’all know since he mentioned Aztec a lot.
Excellent documentary! One question though: didn't this game also exist further north as well, or at least similar games?
There's no way the winners were sacrificed. You'd have to have an entire team of people who were just pumped to get their heads lopped off to have a game where its not just a competition to see who can lose fastest.
War captives were sacrificed, they would play a mock game where they would simply act and lose. Sort of like a play.
@Caramel Johnson Good point. There are plenty of professional athletes who don't make it to big competitions. Wasn't thinking clearly.
Being sacrificed = reaching heaven/Valhalla/nirvana/etc... That is why people had not that much issues with it
Most sacrifices were from prisoners who lost. Sometimes during the big games (literal versions of the olympics) cities would compete / during religious events the winners would compete to be sacrificed. Most don't know this part of the story but the winners are thought to have lived a year or so before being sacrificed at the next events start. During this year they were treated as demigods and were thought to be sacrificed so they could play for their gods... Just stating this so everyone knows the current academic theory.
@@theghosthero6173 , in mesoamerican culture, there was no heaven or nirvana as such. death was regarded as an award for people, who worked all their lives, and could finally go to rest. and being sacrificed was also tought of as a honor to their gods and to people.
I would love to follow this subject as it’s fascinating to learn about social concepts. Considering how old these civilisations are this game could have been played for thousands of years. One of few in-depth videos on the subject and something I didn’t learn at school!
Honestly, this Mesoamerican series is so good!
Love the meso history leason ...please make more ... Please