What an interesting match up! That Pontiac Firebird 400 HO is an absolute monster, but the Avanti R2 is a sleeper! Both very interesting and well built cars!
I couldn't see the time but in the first race the Pontiac Firebird destroyed in the second race the Avante jump the light by about 2 seconds it look like and the firebird still caught it from what I could see love the Firebirds especially the 68 hardtop
@@ufarkingicehole Studebaker ceased production of the Avanti during the 64 model year and moved production to Canada. 65 and 66 Studebakers used what were basically 283 Chevy V8's. All Studebaker production ceased at the end of the 66 model year. Then - former Studebaker dealers Newman and Altman secured the rights to produce Avantis. Since Studebaker engines were no longer being produced, they bought motors from Chevy - 327's at first, then 350's and later also used 305's and 400's. The Newman/Altman Avantis were labelled Avanti II's. Studebaker-built Avantis all used Studebaker engines, almost all 289's, with a handful of them bored out to 299 or 304. So, no, original Avanti's did not come with a 327, only Avanti II's.
@@tl5108 Ive had 2.....66 Rambler 220 sedan and a 74 Javelin/AMX with a 360. I like them. The weirdness is wonderful. A Pacer Wagon with a built 401 and a few modern upgrades ( overdrive transmission and efi ) and painted in a loud color would be cool.
true - with a stage 4 engine If I remember correctly - 171mph on the flats of Utah salty lake.... Ken miles about a year or so later Ken Miles took the 66 427 Sc Cobra with a reporter from 0-100 back to 0 in @13.3 seconds...
I had one as a kid in 1970 I bought a 1968 green 4 speed H.O. with black int and a black vinyl roof with front disk brakes from my High school Home room teacher. While under warranty I put 4:11s in it, a 360hp GTO Cam, then I modified the intake to fit a adapter and removed the carb installed a Holly 780 single pumper and anti pump up lifters with a modified 4 speed trans.I might be hard to believe but .I could pull on most competitive Automatics and if racing I would shift it at 7000 rpm..all the time .
This is from "Ponti-Archeology and explains the horse power difference. In '67 and '68 the used the throttle restrictor but in '69 it was on paper only. "The heart of the 1969 Firebird 400 option was the 330 hp Pontiac 400 engine. This was the same engine as the GTO, which was rated at 350 hp. The 20 hp difference was simply on paper, as Pontiac wanted to keep their vehicle horsepower rating at 1 hp / 10 lbs of vehicle weight. Therefore, a 3500 lb GTO was rated at 350 hp, and a 3300 lb Firebird was rated at 330 hp. Most of the engine parts between the Firebird 400 and the GTO's 400 used different part numbers in order to allow for a controlled assembly processes, but they were functionally identical. The one area that was different were the exhaust manifolds. The Firebird chassis allowed for a more tapered exhaust manifold design over the GTO, and the Firebird manifolds actually provided about 5 more hp."
100% dead on. My best friend has been into his Pontiac Firebirds befor je was even old enough to drive. He has several Pontiac firebirds from 1967 thru 1969 all 400 ram air 3 cars.also has a 1969 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 400 Ram Air 3 car 100% numbers matching car. Him and his wife have without question the nicest firebirds you will ever see. His 1967 Firebird is not original it has a 400 cid putting out over 600hp and a factory 4 speed.they have several other's and some of the other Firebirds are factory convertibles and 4 speed cars and some are Automatic Transmission.they enter them into car shows and have won several 1st place awards.
I’ve always thought it hilarious the way the bigger car manufacturers brag about technological “firsts” and such, when, now defunct, smaller car manufacturers were ahead of their time. The most recent example I can recall to mind is Lexus bragging about how the headlights turn with the steering of the front tires on the RX line as an if they were the first to invent it..Ole Preston Tucker had designed that into his Tucker Torpedo!
Yes. About 15 years ago GM came out with an "XUV" bragging it had the "first power-operated sliding roof over the cargo area". They had to add "power-operated" because Studebaker had the same sliding roof introduced in 1964 for all station wagons - just not a powered roof.
I'd guess, based on the performance numbers given to the Avanti, that as tested it probaby had the 3.31 rear end, not the 3.73. The car, despite not being wind tunnel tested, had better aerodynamics than most cars of that era, and with the right rear end and enough horsepower, it could hit 160mph, where most muscle cars top out around 120-130. But put the 3.73 in it, and your top speed will go down, probably to under 150, while 0-60 and quarter mile times will get better. I've got a 1963 Avanti, the engine needed rebuilding, so I rebuilt it as an R2 -- it's easily convertible back to R1 spec if some future owner ever wants to. I didn't bother changing the rear end though, so it's still got the 3.31. As I don't plan on drag racing it, I don't mind, and I like the way the 3.31 lets me cruise on the interstate with slightly lower rpms.
My dad was a Studebaker guy and owned different models, the last one he purchased was a new red 1963 Studebaker Avanti, equipped with a R1 automatic, the funny thing was when we were on vacation in 1963 it had a trailer hitch on it and sported a Allstate trailer which hauled all our Various camping gear to Canada. I remember being seven years old that year when he would pull into a gas station the people just flocked around the car. Good times with the family and the Stude, Oh yeah mom said he paid cash for the car, he was a machine builder at General Electric, and learn to be thrifty being from Europe, but not on this purchase 🤔😂
@The Truth about Africa hurts All the vacuum was to hold the top butterfly closed which also kept the secondary needles closed. The lower secondary butterflies were connected to the throttle cable and those are the butterflies that had the tab that you could bend to obtain full throttle. MOST JUST DISCONNECTED VACUUM LINE AND PLUGGED IT TO HAVE INSTANTANEOUS SECONDARIES ! Brush-up on your Carter/Rochester carburetors ! Oh yeah ALL LIVES MATTER !
It's a weird fact but Pontiac changed to using Oldsmobile 400ci V8 engines in the Firebirds a very few years after the video starring Firebird was first on the scene. I wonder why this happened, GM trying to save a few dollars maybe?
Pontiac offered the Olds 403 in 77-79 Trans Ams as part of their moving towards a corporate engine plus sales took off in 77. They also offer a 305 Chevy in Firebirds 77-81.
Love that 68 Firebird. The 400 Ram Air II was the top dog for the Firebird in 68. I also didn't know until recently that the Royal Bobcat package was available on the Firebird as well as the GTO. They also gave Catalina's the Bobcat treatment in the early 60's. Royal would pull the stock 400 and drop in the 390 horsepower 428 HO from the full size Pontiac's and give it their famous "Supertune". I don't really know much about those blown Studebaker's besides that they were pretty fast
My best friend and his wife have the 1967 thru 1969 Pontiac firebirds ram air 3 cars most of their cars are 100% matching numbers with the 400 4 speed and the 400 turbo then they have the 1969 Pontiac Firebird Ram Air 3 car 400 CID.100% original. The they have the 1967 firebird that is not original it's a convertible as are some of his other firebirds. But this one puts out over 600hp and is a factory 4 speed car.Their collection of Firebirds are the nicest Firebirds you will ever see.they are showroom condition.
I believe Stude also offered an R-4 option which entailed two four barrels and a hotter cam. As far as is known none came from the factory in Avantis. May have been a few installed in Hawk GTs and Larks; I would have to research the numbers.
Studebaker R engines were considered as performance engines. R1- 289 w/4bbl R2- 289 w/Paxton and 4bbl R3- 304 w/Paxton R4- 304 w/duel 4bbls. These were options from factory or can be put in from dealer. There was also a R5 that was a 304 with duel Paxtons that Andy Granatelli was trying out.
Almost right . . . but it was actually the R4 that had the 304 engine and dual 4 bbl carbs (rated 280 hp). The R3 also had the 304 engine, one carb, and a high output Paxton SC. The R3 was under-rated at 335 hp (some dynoed 400+ hp), and was the Holy Grail factory performance engine. It is true that Andy G. built Duo Cento, his ultimate Bonneville car, which ran 196 mph in slippery conditions. Duo Cento had fuel injection (borrowed from a Helicopter, I think), two superchargers and countless other modifications. It was a one-off Granatelli Bonneville race car that was a Studebaker Avanti in name only. It was called the R5 by some folks, but that wasn't an official Studebaker designation.
@@michaelseibert634 yes you are right. Don't know how I switched them around. Ron Hall was the 1st one to hit 200mph with his avanti R2 back in 93 I think. I've been around studebakers most of my life, alot of people dont know about the R3 or R4 let alone a R5. Most these days people just want to LS swap everything and not know what the potential these older cars have.
A paper that Studebaker submitted to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) described the R-5 factory engine (I don't recall how they labeled it) at 638 hp. There are some references floating around that say 575 hp, but 638 hp appears to be the correct figure per Studebaker.
Forgot to mention when I commented the other day that I really appreciate the quality videos of this class of racing! Great job and hope to see more. Maybe some F.A.S.T. Class stuff too? Thanks!
I am a proud owner of a 68 Firebird. Now I know I'm going to get some hell for this. But I've got a 383 stroker Chevy motor in it. It's more of a street rod. Definitely not rolling an original ride. All around disc brakes it's suited and booted. Have owned it for 15 to 17 years. Absolutely love it!!! Would never get rid of it. Although I did promise it to my godson. But he won't be getting unless to happens to me. Hopefully that doesn't happen for quite some time. I almost wanted to cry when I seen the rear end come out from under that car.😢 Interesting interesting video. Really enjoyed it from New Mexico to stay blessed.👍🇺🇸✌
I'm a GM/Chevy man but I freely admit that if the Studebaker factories were still alive and kicking out beautiful vehicles, well I'd definitely be be a Studebaker man. Everything from their engines with all kinds of forged steel goodies, to 18 bolts securely clamping those lovely cylinder heads to the thick cylinder walled blocks, nice big beefy main bearing journals, strong diffs and beautiful styling, wow those bodies are something! I just picked up a completely original, never been crashed or repainted one owner, black '64 Studebaker Commander sedan, she's got the little straight 6 cylinder engine and a 3 speed manual transmission, probably the cheapest Studebaker made at the time but I don't care, she's a good runner and that's all that matters to me. Only changes I plan are a set of 14 x 7 Cragar SS wheels with modern radial tires and an audio system upgrade. I bet that old girl will outlive me!
They probably built one of the best V8s ever. Perhaps they should have partnered with AMC... together they probably could have come up with some great options.
@@CarsAndZebras There was a merger in the works between Studebaker Packard Corporation and AMC, but when AMC's head George Mason passed away George Romney took over and canceled the plan.
Those forged steel cranks, cams and goodies were exceptionally durable. My father and I restored 34 of the old Stud's in our days (50's - late 80's) working together. He was an original 'shade tree' mechanic, self taught with not one hour of classroom. Figured it out from reading articles and of course the old Chilton Motor Manuals. He loved to make them better than factory and was always working a few more hp if he could somehow find it. His best and fastest for the 1/4 mile was a 4dr 1964 Challenger. 289cu.in. R-1 engine. Ran the mid 13's.
63 Avanti also had 4 caliper disc brakes, dual points, and the 3 speed hydrostatic was bulletproof. My father showed me how my mother's car could launch like no other, holding the shift close to under the high redline the 289 HO had compared to Ford or Big block Chevy. Without the supercharger it could 9.5 . In the 80s with near 200k miles could beat most street bikes. A must do is swap the stock one master cylinder break cylinder and split the lines like any modern car. Best ride ever, thanks to my mother I learned so much. It took the super bird 1970 to exceed and take the title of fastest production car.
At the time Studebaker owned Paxton (and STP, and others). They didn't have a big block and their V8 wouldn't go beyond about 305 cubes (5.0L), so they had to supercharge just to try to hang on at all. Love the Pure Stock races at Mid-Michigan Dragway! A gathering place for Studebakers of various kinds. They're entertaining to watch race, the whole car comes straight up on its chassis instead of squatting in the rear and raising the nose. And they can be fast! I saw a Yenko Camaro 427 barely beat a Lark. Barely.
Apparently this year there was a Studebaker R4 (obviously not original to the car, but built to R4 specs with correct parts and then installed), but I'm waiting for the official documentation before that video comes out.
True. Supercharging is probably the cheapest way to get a meaningful increase in horsepower. In buying Paxton, they also got Andy Granatelli who was president of Paxton Products at the time. Granatelli headed up all the performance improvements. The R-3 engine was 335 hp (bored out to 304.5 and many other changes and more boost) and a car with that broke the 29 records at Bonneville that Studebaker touted in their advertising. One was the flying mile where the R-3 did 168.15 mph.
andrew domenitz winds out quarter on a large track would be passed friend had a 67 gto tri.power 5 13 gears quarter could blow leave eveeone highway and track we would pass or lap more to speed than running a quarter mile or tjose hondas and the one eigth mile
I believe that was the record it set. However, they were going for 200, and it did it, but only in one direction and the wind changed. They were going to come back the next year and set a record going over 200 but sadly there was no next year. A few years ago someone recreated that car and did set a record of over 200 MPH.
The throttle stop was to keep the horsepower to weight ratio the same as the GTO and others that GM made. It was a 10 to 1 weight to power ratio if I remember correctly. All you did was to bend the secondary opening arm to achieve WOT. Simple. It had to be 3.73's or lower to get the "close ratio" transmission, unless you ordered it otherwise. The close ratio was terrible, as first gear was a 2.20 ratio instead of a 2.52 ratio of the "wide ratio" unit. The only advantage of the close ratio was the 3-4 shift. 1.27 third gear instead of 1.46 third gear. The Ram Air had a slightly larger camshaft "H", instead of the "S" camshaft. It had cast iron headers too.
A good friend of mine has 2 of the 9 r3 of 64 and I have a 61 hawk. The r3 Avanti also has no choke and no vacuum advance. There was also some r4 engines you could buy but they were Never put into the cars from the factory
'59 lark VIII, 3 on the tree with overdrive, red 2 door and '60 lark VI, automatic, blue 4 door were the cars I was driving when I got my license. my mom got each one for around $200 and I drove them into the ground. we took the 2 door off road many times with success. we had a 59 rambler American that was pretty cool push button tranny on the dash. a 64 rambler ambassador wagon, front end problems motor was too heavy. they were the stars of any neighborhood used car lots.
@@sometimesieatcake4156 Not a fair comparison. Pontiac is horsepower. It makes black marks. Ex-wife is a horse. She has stretch marks. But I'm glad you like thic!
Great video. All of your videos are great. Those Studebakers truly were ahead of their time. But actually, it was Tucker who was the first to come with disc brakes. And of course the corrupt government at the behest of the big auto makers shut Tucker down before he could begin mass production. Tucker offered many firsts, including pop out safety glass and I believe safety belts too, among other things.
I don’t really know much about Tucker, so I’ll have to look into that! And 2 new videos coming out this week (Monday and Wednesday), so keep your eyes peeled!
@@CarsAndZebras I don't know if it's true or not, but I saw or heard somewhere that the movie about Tucker had lots of inaccuracies. I saw the movie years ago of course, and enjoyed it for what it was, but some of it did seem rather silly for depicting a real man and his cars. Would love to see someone do the research & create a video, providing they can find enough accurate information to to do. If someone has already done that, I have yet to see or hear about it.
I don't think so. Tucker wanted to put disk brakes on his cars but it didn't work out. The first American production car to offer disk brakes was the Crosley Hotshot, but Studebaker not only made them standard on the Avanti but made them available across the line. You could get the cheapest possible Lark with a six and straight 3 speed with disk brakes.
Just google the Studebaker Driver's Club. We are a large, active club with a great magazine, and the International meet is coming up in just a few weeks. This year it's being held at the home of Studebaker, South Bend, Indiana.
I agree with the author, a 60 year old Avanti is still hardly out dated by looks today. Not trying to take away anything away from the Corvette, but man, what a beautiful car from the day.
Always thought the 68 FB would have looked really cool with hideaway headlights. The hot wheels light my firebird had them and made that car look SO mean
Andy Granatelli did a great job pulling 289 hp out of a dated Studebaker (dates back to 1951) 289CI engine (note the 5k red line) with a supercharger (small valves and poor breathing required the supercharger - no small block Ford tunnel-port head in the budget ). But putting it against a newer 400ci Firebird, it was out classed at a drag strip. However, but it did VERY well considering the deficit in both cubes and HP. But for style, the Avanti winds hands down. It's like comparing a work of art with a GM car
I owned a '68 Ram Air Firebird with an auto. Once you corrected the auto linkage and goofy blocking plate this car ran with the fastest of the day. The only musclecar I ever owned with an auto and it was much stronger that the big block Chevelles and Corvette I owned, all manuals. The only car I ever rode in with a harder 1-2 upshift was a 428 Cobra Jet Mach I. Fun times.
Avanti's were made as road cars, known for handling and braking on par with the best from Europe of the time, and faster to boot. The only American car that handled better was the Vette.
Love Avantis, but they were not technically advanced, other than they did offer disc brakes (front only) at a time when few, if any, other American manufacturers did. However, the frame and suspension were essentially the same as what Studebaker had developed way back in 1951, and still used kingpins up front long after everyone else had gone to ball joints. The motor, likewise, was basically the same motor first offered in 1951. It was tough, but extremely heavy for its size, and only had three exhaust ports (like early Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Packard V8s) long after everyone else had gone to separate exhaust ports for each cylinder. The Lark models still had removable rear fenders (quarters) right to the end. Studebaker was pretty much broke by the end of the 1956 model year; everything after that was developed on a shoestring budget. It is impressive that the company achieved as much as it did with so few resources.
Yes. They didn't have the funds to do much engineering so had to "work out of the existing parts bin". I know. I have one. But they had a number of novel things that were either new or seldom seen. While the early ones had the inside rear view mirror on a stalk up from the dashboard, they changed to cementing it to the windshield and were the first to do so. The built-in roll bar was nice. Rear seats were actually a little higher than the front seats for better rear passenger visibility. Largest piece of rear window glass (auto designers call this a "back light") in the world until the Plymouth Barracuda came out shortly after. First switches located above the windshield. Unusual gas tank placement, for safety, behind the rear seat. The usual gas tank location was instead for the spare tire under a round panel on the trunk floor. Inside trunk release (and the access door in the package shelf isn't really for getting stuff out of the trunk. It is the backup plan if the trunk release cable breaks so you can reach the latch inside with a long screwdriver. Otherwise, you would have to cut a hole in the Fiberglas somewhere.) Probably more gauges than had ever been on an American car, or most any car. But mechanically it was a sketchy affair. They added and/or beefed up torsion bars, but Avantis still handle pretty bad. Over 60% of the weight is on the front wheels. (The Studebaker 289 weighs 650 lbs. versus a Ford 289 at 460 lbs. Huge difference.) King pin steering is not very sophisticated, and it just has regular leaf springs at the rear. Some Avanti owners describe the ride and handling equivalent to a "lumber wagon". But considering the budget and the ludicrously short design time (40 days) and thought to be impossible time they got it to market (maybe 18 months) it really is a heck of a car.
Ball joints are just cheaper to make. The studebaker suspension is rock solid and was used in the Avanti right up to 1984. The Avanti frame dates to 1953. Who would have believed that a 1953 frame could become the Avanti in 1963. I think something was done right.
There actually was a 2 barrel for the 400 Pontiac in 67-68 for GTO and Firebird. They’re really uncommon and you had to special order them. They basically were for guys who wanted the GTO or big engine and little better gas mileage. Or to get for your wife.
I've heard of the 2bbl on a couple GTOs in 68, but never on a Firebird. The GTO only came with the 400, but the Firebird had other engine options if you wanted economy. You could get a 2bbl 326 in 67 or a 2bbl 350 in 68 in a Firebird.
keith stoehr You may be right, I’m not 100% sure either. But pretty sure. I know you could get those other engine options for the Firebird, but I was speaking only about 400 motors. GTO definitely had a 2bbl option in 67 and 68, and I’m pretty sure you could make the same order on your Firebird. Especially since they were the same motors. I could be wrong because I haven’t bothered to confirm it with in depth research, but I’m pretty sure. I think it’s a silly option.
They had to be testing an R1... My 59 4dr Lark with two barrel and 259 V8 has turned mid 15s.. usually consistent low 16s. My Lark has 3 speed manual with overdrive, an TT rear end. My dad and I have had Studes for decades. An R2 Avanti should post way better ET than the published time in your magazine articles
Pontiac never sent cars, to be tested by journalists, without giving them a dyno tune, with tuned carbs, distributors, and optional gearing. Jim Wangers was very serious about Pontiacs performance image. Car and Driver tested a '65 Pontiac 2+2 ( Catalina size, for those unfamiliar) with a 421, that turned a sub 4 second 0 - 60 time.
I've owned Studebakers since 1953 when I bought my first one a 1948 Champion Starlite coupe. every one I've owned was a good car, never bought a new one , but all were 4 years old or older.... wish I could have afforded a new avanti in 1963, one of my Avantis I bought was in the fall of 1967, was hit in the front end and I put a new front end on in spring of 1968, the other two was bought later.
HO option Pontiac's came with 4piston calipers which my 68 FB 350H0 320hp had. Pont calipers used much larger pistons than the 4 pot Vett and yes they were problematic if fluid wasn't bled&change👍
Was listening to someone drive the Avanti and it just sounds cool with the supercharger and all. If only the company they subcontracted the body moulding to had gotten the right size moulds .. they were in a hurry and ended up too small .. had a hard time putting together the cars .. couldn't meet demand.
That Dodge Dart that lost the rear differential, I was there. I know the owner, was put together wrong. Rare Dodge, I am a Pontiac fan, but don't get satisfaction from someone else's misery.
Studebaker never advertised horsepower ratings for the Avanti engines. There was a lot of speculation, and the numbers speculated were generally underrated. The R3 engine was offered in production for '64 only, the 289 overbored 0.093 for 304.5 cubes and built up at Granatelli's shop. Granatelli wouldn't ship one until it had posted 415 horses on the dyno. About 20 of those engines were built, but only nine made it into Avantis and one in a '64 Commander (successor model to the Lark Regal). There was also a normally aspirated R4 engine, the 304.5 with dual four-barrels and 12.5:1 compression and electronic ignition, generally estimated to be fractionally less powerful than the R2. I believe that two Avantis were so equipped' The R5 (experimental, one built) was dual-supercharged with the type Bendix fuel injection system used on some Indy cars, built for the Avanti Due Cento (Two Hundred). The Due Cento didn't make the target 200 mph at Bonneville because the salt was in poor condition at the time of the attempt, but the plan had been to reach 200 and then pop a drag parachute to startle the press, slow the car and give Studebaker's marketing department the most dramatic footage of all time for their commercials.
Side-bar, Studebaker Avanti was the first American manufacturer to offer _power_ front disc brakes of the type that would become the industry standard a few years later, but Crosley provided caliper-type disc brakes (non-power) on all wheels in their final years, and in the early fifties the Chrysler Imperial came with a unique clutch-type self-energizing brake system. From '63 through the end in '66, Studebaker used a dual-circuit system on all cars equipped with drum brakes, but their disc brake system used a single circuit to all four wheels. Among US car companies in 1963, only Studebaker, Rambler, and Cadillac used dual circuits.
Are you claiming Ford built three speed transmissions for GM ? Or , are you mistaking the Borg-Warner applications and fits used by various manufacturers?
i only know what avanti looks like because for some reason one sat in a shop window of a closed down warehouse right off route 2 in downtown Weirton for about 20 years….the building was demolished so now I always wonder what happened to that little white Avanti!!!
Almost forget in Peterson’s top 50 stock,#2or3 was a Buick Gran National 1986, I think the org. Cobra was the fasted but it wasn’t rated as a off the showroom floor or something!?
These are undoubtedly cool, but man, they look like the lead designer started at the rear, but had a pay cut and lost enthusiasm for his job 2/3 of the way to finishing.
As you said, interesting match up. However, if I had a nice old Studebaker Avanti, I would NOT be taking it to the drag strip to thrash it. These are very low production cars and should be treated like the cultural artifacts that they are. Certainly, take it out and drive it, and even open it up on the highway now and then, but don't beat the crap out of it at the drag strip.
I have three 1963 R-2 Avantis with 4-speed and would NEVER take them to the dragstrip, they are too rare to tear them up, they have already been proven on the Salt Flats in 1962 before they were put on the market and broke 29 speed records .
In 1990 or 89 I bought Peterson’s hot rod mag. They had a List of the 50 fastest quarter mile times Of stock off the showroom floor American Muscle ! Remember this was from 1990 down.#1 to my surprise was a 1968 Firebird 400; fasted mopar 440-2-4bbl,in the top ten were3-455 GM also 1 426 Hemi .GM had the most in the top ten! Ford had 1, I think it was the 428 cobra!
67 and 68 Firebird is in my opinion one of the best looking cars ever made. Those and 70 to 73 Camaros are my personal favorites. I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for an RA and Z28 today.
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What an interesting match up! That Pontiac Firebird 400 HO is an absolute monster, but the Avanti R2 is a sleeper! Both very interesting and well built cars!
I know someone with two 63' Avantis. One black one white, both are garage kept and never driven.
I thought they also came with a 327....
I couldn't see the time but in the first race the Pontiac Firebird destroyed in the second race the Avante jump the light by about 2 seconds it look like and the firebird still caught it from what I could see love the Firebirds especially the 68 hardtop
@@ufarkingicehole Studebaker ceased production of the Avanti during the 64 model year and moved production to Canada. 65 and 66 Studebakers used what were basically 283 Chevy V8's. All Studebaker production ceased at the end of the 66 model year. Then - former Studebaker dealers Newman and Altman secured the rights to produce Avantis. Since Studebaker engines were no longer being produced, they bought motors from Chevy - 327's at first, then 350's and later also used 305's and 400's. The Newman/Altman Avantis were labelled Avanti II's. Studebaker-built Avantis all used Studebaker engines, almost all 289's, with a handful of them bored out to 299 or 304. So, no, original Avanti's did not come with a 327, only Avanti II's.
@Cars And Zebras A friend near me has the first of nine R3 Avantis and could be available if you want to feature this fast car in a future video.
Studebaker, Packard, Hudson owners are some of the hardest of the hardcore. These cars are mad underrated, and when built right they flat kill.
Very true!
Don't forget AMC (which I believe hudson merged with another company to become
@@tl5108 Hudson merged with Nash to become AMC.
@@tl5108 Ive had 2.....66 Rambler 220 sedan and a 74 Javelin/AMX with a 360. I like them. The weirdness is wonderful. A Pacer Wagon with a built 401 and a few modern upgrades ( overdrive transmission and efi ) and painted in a loud color would be cool.
@@hoost3056 were they running torquefliteflite transmissions?
P.S. 8/2023: My former father in law used to work at Studebaker and build Avanti's. He loved that car. Thanks
Fun fact on the Avanti R3 : It was actually the fastest production car in the world for a time (topspeed of course)
true - with a stage 4 engine If I remember correctly - 171mph on the flats of Utah salty lake....
Ken miles about a year or so later Ken Miles took the 66 427 Sc Cobra with a reporter from 0-100 back to 0 in @13.3 seconds...
And, what, about 2 built?
@@buzzwaldron6195 Almost 5,000
As a child of 10 or 11, I went to the car show in NYC where they debuted the Avanti.
That would have been interesting!
I pressured my dad to look into buying one but he was into Cadillacs
Still a bunch around South Bend!
@@andrewdomenitzdmd I just don't like the way they look sorry I would have bought the Cadillac 2
Why 10 or 11 Brothers and Sisters ???? Was ONE a MIDGET ???? In that Case 10.5 Brothers and Sisters.
Awesome video. Back in the early 80's, I had a "57" Studebaker Silver Hawk. That thing could really haul. Super fun. Super cool. Super hawk.
I had one as a kid in 1970 I bought a 1968 green 4 speed H.O. with black int and a black vinyl roof with front disk brakes from my High school Home room teacher. While under warranty I put 4:11s in it, a 360hp GTO Cam, then I modified the intake to fit a adapter and removed the carb installed a Holly 780 single pumper and anti pump up lifters with a modified 4 speed trans.I might be hard to believe but .I could pull on most competitive Automatics and if racing I would shift it at 7000 rpm..all the time .
This is from "Ponti-Archeology and explains the horse power difference. In '67 and '68 the used the throttle restrictor but in '69 it was on paper only.
"The heart of the 1969 Firebird 400 option was the 330 hp Pontiac
400 engine. This was the same engine as the GTO, which was
rated at 350 hp. The 20 hp difference was simply on paper, as
Pontiac wanted to keep their vehicle horsepower rating at 1 hp /
10 lbs of vehicle weight. Therefore, a 3500 lb GTO was rated at
350 hp, and a 3300 lb Firebird was rated at 330 hp. Most of the
engine parts between the Firebird 400 and the GTO's 400 used
different part numbers in order to allow for a controlled assembly
processes, but they were functionally identical. The one area that
was different were the exhaust manifolds. The Firebird chassis
allowed for a more tapered exhaust manifold design over the
GTO, and the Firebird manifolds actually provided about 5 more
hp."
100% dead on. My best friend has been into his Pontiac Firebirds befor je was even old enough to drive. He has several Pontiac firebirds from 1967 thru 1969 all 400 ram air 3 cars.also has a 1969 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 400 Ram Air 3 car 100% numbers matching car. Him and his wife have without question the nicest firebirds you will ever see. His 1967 Firebird is not original it has a 400 cid putting out over 600hp and a factory 4 speed.they have several other's and some of the other Firebirds are factory convertibles and 4 speed cars and some are Automatic Transmission.they enter them into car shows and have won several 1st place awards.
What beautiful machines they were....and these days will never come again.
I’ve always thought it hilarious the way the bigger car manufacturers brag about technological “firsts” and such, when, now defunct, smaller car manufacturers were ahead of their time. The most recent example I can recall to mind is Lexus bragging about how the headlights turn with the steering of the front tires on the RX line as an if they were the first to invent it..Ole Preston Tucker had designed that into his Tucker Torpedo!
Yes. About 15 years ago GM came out with an "XUV" bragging it had the "first power-operated sliding roof over the cargo area". They had to add "power-operated" because Studebaker had the same sliding roof introduced in 1964 for all station wagons - just not a powered roof.
Always had a major love for the Avanti, beautiful cars in every aspect. If I had the bucks, that would be the first one on my list.
I'd guess, based on the performance numbers given to the Avanti, that as tested it probaby had the 3.31 rear end, not the 3.73. The car, despite not being wind tunnel tested, had better aerodynamics than most cars of that era, and with the right rear end and enough horsepower, it could hit 160mph, where most muscle cars top out around 120-130. But put the 3.73 in it, and your top speed will go down, probably to under 150, while 0-60 and quarter mile times will get better.
I've got a 1963 Avanti, the engine needed rebuilding, so I rebuilt it as an R2 -- it's easily convertible back to R1 spec if some future owner ever wants to. I didn't bother changing the rear end though, so it's still got the 3.31. As I don't plan on drag racing it, I don't mind, and I like the way the 3.31 lets me cruise on the interstate with slightly lower rpms.
My dad was a Studebaker guy and owned different models, the last one he purchased was a new red 1963 Studebaker Avanti, equipped with a R1 automatic, the funny thing was when we were on vacation in 1963 it had a trailer hitch on it and sported a Allstate trailer which hauled all our Various camping gear to Canada. I remember being seven years old that year when he would pull into a gas station the people just flocked around the car. Good times with the family and the Stude, Oh yeah mom said he paid cash for the car, he was a machine builder at General Electric, and learn to be thrifty being from Europe, but not on this purchase 🤔😂
Paying cash borders on thrifty. Those are great memories to own.
Yeah, all you had to do on that 4bbl bird was to bend the tab on the carb and you had 100 % sencodaries from 75 %. It was quite a difference.
@The Truth about Africa hurts All the vacuum was to hold the top butterfly closed which also kept the secondary needles closed. The lower secondary butterflies were connected to the throttle cable and those are the butterflies that had the tab that you could bend to obtain full throttle. MOST JUST DISCONNECTED VACUUM LINE AND PLUGGED IT TO HAVE INSTANTANEOUS SECONDARIES ! Brush-up on your Carter/Rochester carburetors ! Oh yeah ALL LIVES MATTER !
@@benkrom2737 . Your dead on Brother.
Studebaker 289, not a Ford! So far ahead of it's time, few appreciated it enough. RIP, Studebaker.
A friend of mine, who is a Studebaker fiend, has a 1963 R2 Avanti with a 4 speed transmission. He let me drive it!!!! Cool car.
A 400 ci Pontiac of that era has been an underrated motor and easily tuned and modified with awesome potential.
That’s very true, stay tuned because I have footage of some Ram Air cars as well.... crazy quick.
Just be sure to have forged connecting rods. That seems to be the weak link.
It's a weird fact but Pontiac changed to using Oldsmobile 400ci V8 engines in the Firebirds a very few years after the video starring Firebird was first on the scene. I wonder why this happened, GM trying to save a few dollars maybe?
Pontiac offered the Olds 403 in 77-79 Trans Ams as part of their moving towards a corporate engine plus sales took off in 77. They also offer a 305 Chevy in Firebirds 77-81.
Love that 68 Firebird. The 400 Ram Air II was the top dog for the Firebird in 68. I also didn't know until recently that the Royal Bobcat package was available on the Firebird as well as the GTO. They also gave Catalina's the Bobcat treatment in the early 60's. Royal would pull the stock 400 and drop in the 390 horsepower 428 HO from the full size Pontiac's and give it their famous "Supertune". I don't really know much about those blown Studebaker's besides that they were pretty fast
My best friend and his wife have the 1967 thru 1969 Pontiac firebirds ram air 3 cars most of their cars are 100% matching numbers with the 400 4 speed and the 400 turbo then they have the 1969 Pontiac Firebird Ram Air 3 car 400 CID.100% original. The they have the 1967 firebird that is not original it's a convertible as are some of his other firebirds. But this one puts out over 600hp and is a factory 4 speed car.Their collection of Firebirds are the nicest Firebirds you will ever see.they are showroom condition.
Our shop teacher had an R3. I didn't realize how rare it is
Thanks for sharing so much cool information about the ole fantastic cars! Well documenting!!
No problem, thanks for watching! Plenty to come in the future!
I believe Stude also offered an R-4 option which entailed two four barrels and a hotter cam. As far as is known none came from the factory in Avantis. May have been a few installed in Hawk GTs and Larks; I would have to research the numbers.
I’d be curious to see a match up of a R3 vs R4. Not sure who would win.
yes, and Andy Granitelli built one with dual quads and dual blowers - clocked 196 MPH at Bonneville....
@@merlemorrison482 Yes, I have read about that. Impressive to say the least!!
@@merlemorrison482 Great last name Sir!
@@ronaldmorrison6013 thank you - and also to yours.... :)
Studebaker R engines were considered as performance engines.
R1- 289 w/4bbl
R2- 289 w/Paxton and 4bbl
R3- 304 w/Paxton
R4- 304 w/duel 4bbls.
These were options from factory or can be put in from dealer.
There was also a R5 that was a 304 with duel Paxtons that Andy Granatelli was trying out.
Almost right . . . but it was actually the R4 that had the 304 engine and dual 4 bbl carbs (rated 280 hp). The R3 also had the 304 engine, one carb, and a high output Paxton SC. The R3 was under-rated at 335 hp (some dynoed 400+ hp), and was the Holy Grail factory performance engine. It is true that Andy G. built Duo Cento, his ultimate Bonneville car, which ran 196 mph in slippery conditions. Duo Cento had fuel injection (borrowed from a Helicopter, I think), two superchargers and countless other modifications. It was a one-off Granatelli Bonneville race car that was a Studebaker Avanti in name only. It was called the R5 by some folks, but that wasn't an official Studebaker designation.
@@michaelseibert634 yes you are right. Don't know how I switched them around. Ron Hall was the 1st one to hit 200mph with his avanti R2 back in 93 I think. I've been around studebakers most of my life, alot of people dont know about the R3 or R4 let alone a R5. Most these days people just want to LS swap everything and not know what the potential these older cars have.
A paper that Studebaker submitted to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) described the R-5 factory engine (I don't recall how they labeled it) at 638 hp. There are some references floating around that say 575 hp, but 638 hp appears to be the correct figure per Studebaker.
Forgot to mention when I commented the other day that I really appreciate the quality videos of this class of racing! Great job and hope to see more. Maybe some F.A.S.T. Class stuff too? Thanks!
I appreciate that! I actually went out to the midwest FAST drags a couple months ago but it got rained out.
Me too they are awesome better than going to the Dragstrip well not really but way more indep lot of information on these cars love cars and zebras😀
I am a proud owner of a 68 Firebird. Now I know I'm going to get some hell for this. But I've got a 383 stroker Chevy motor in it. It's more of a street rod. Definitely not rolling an original ride. All around disc brakes it's suited and booted. Have owned it for 15 to 17 years. Absolutely love it!!! Would never get rid of it. Although I did promise it to my godson. But he won't be getting unless to happens to me. Hopefully that doesn't happen for quite some time. I almost wanted to cry when I seen the rear end come out from under that car.😢 Interesting interesting video. Really enjoyed it from New Mexico to stay blessed.👍🇺🇸✌
Did you drop in the chevy engine, or it was there when you bought it?
Dude, so sacrilegious it's unmentionable. Please change the motor now and pray to the poncho gods for forgiveness.
I'm a GM/Chevy man but I freely admit that if the Studebaker factories were still alive and kicking out beautiful vehicles, well I'd definitely be be a Studebaker man. Everything from their engines with all kinds of forged steel goodies, to 18 bolts securely clamping those lovely cylinder heads to the thick cylinder walled blocks, nice big beefy main bearing journals, strong diffs and beautiful styling, wow those bodies are something! I just picked up a completely original, never been crashed or repainted one owner, black '64 Studebaker Commander sedan, she's got the little straight 6 cylinder engine and a 3 speed manual transmission, probably the cheapest Studebaker made at the time but I don't care, she's a good runner and that's all that matters to me. Only changes I plan are a set of 14 x 7 Cragar SS wheels with modern radial tires and an audio system upgrade. I bet that old girl will outlive me!
They probably built one of the best V8s ever. Perhaps they should have partnered with AMC... together they probably could have come up with some great options.
@@CarsAndZebras There was a merger in the works between Studebaker Packard Corporation and AMC, but when AMC's head George Mason passed away George Romney took over and canceled the plan.
Those forged steel cranks, cams and goodies were exceptionally durable. My father and I restored 34 of the old Stud's in our days (50's - late 80's) working together. He was an original 'shade tree' mechanic, self taught with not one hour of classroom. Figured it out from reading articles and of course the old Chilton Motor Manuals. He loved to make them better than factory and was always working a few more hp if he could somehow find it. His best and fastest for the 1/4 mile was a 4dr 1964 Challenger. 289cu.in. R-1 engine. Ran the mid 13's.
63 Avanti also had 4 caliper disc brakes, dual points, and the 3 speed hydrostatic was bulletproof. My father showed me how my mother's car could launch like no other, holding the shift close to under the high redline the 289 HO had compared to Ford or Big block Chevy. Without the supercharger it could 9.5 . In the 80s with near 200k miles could beat most street bikes. A must do is swap the stock one master cylinder break cylinder and split the lines like any modern car. Best ride ever, thanks to my mother I learned so much. It took the super bird 1970 to exceed and take the title of fastest production car.
Maybe its just me, but does anybody else think that the Avanti looks like an Italian car?
As a kid I thought it WAS an Italian car. It wasn’t until years later I discovered it was a Stude.
It is Italian styling same as the 53 coupe
@@kickahaw Raymond Lowey is credited with both of them, he was French.
@@JeffDeWitt Boom you are Right i know i saw Italian styling in old Studebaker literature he was an American citizen by then lol oh well
Maybe it's because it had an Italian Designer ?
At the time Studebaker owned Paxton (and STP, and others). They didn't have a big block and their V8 wouldn't go beyond about 305 cubes (5.0L), so they had to supercharge just to try to hang on at all. Love the Pure Stock races at Mid-Michigan Dragway! A gathering place for Studebakers of various kinds. They're entertaining to watch race, the whole car comes straight up on its chassis instead of squatting in the rear and raising the nose. And they can be fast! I saw a Yenko Camaro 427 barely beat a Lark. Barely.
Apparently this year there was a Studebaker R4 (obviously not original to the car, but built to R4 specs with correct parts and then installed), but I'm waiting for the official documentation before that video comes out.
True. Supercharging is probably the cheapest way to get a meaningful increase in horsepower. In buying Paxton, they also got Andy Granatelli who was president of Paxton Products at the time. Granatelli headed up all the performance improvements. The R-3 engine was 335 hp (bored out to 304.5 and many other changes and more boost) and a car with that broke the 29 records at Bonneville that Studebaker touted in their advertising. One was the flying mile where the R-3 did 168.15 mph.
Just bought a frame off restoration R2 with 5000 miles with 4 speed AND add on A/C for $25K....what a deal....
Love those Avanti’s
Had a 68 Firebird 400 in 1976 4sp 4.10 gears side pipes and mags.
andrew domenitz winds out quarter on a large track would be passed friend had a 67 gto tri.power 5 13 gears quarter could blow leave eveeone highway and track we would pass or lap more to speed than running a quarter mile or tjose hondas and the one eigth mile
@@miguelcastaneda7236 Great
I wish you could test the Andy Granatelli beast - 304 CI with dual blowers!
IIRC, it did 196 MPH at Bonneville.....
I believe that was the record it set. However, they were going for 200, and it did it, but only in one direction and the wind changed. They were going to come back the next year and set a record going over 200 but sadly there was no next year. A few years ago someone recreated that car and did set a record of over 200 MPH.
The throttle stop was to keep the horsepower to weight ratio the same as the GTO and others that GM made. It was a 10 to 1 weight to power ratio if I remember correctly. All you did was to bend the secondary opening arm to achieve WOT. Simple. It had to be 3.73's or lower to get the "close ratio" transmission, unless you ordered it otherwise. The close ratio was terrible, as first gear was a 2.20 ratio instead of a 2.52 ratio of the "wide ratio" unit. The only advantage of the close ratio was the 3-4 shift. 1.27 third gear instead of 1.46 third gear. The Ram Air had a slightly larger camshaft "H", instead of the "S" camshaft. It had cast iron headers too.
The Avanti. Not a pony, A. STALLION!
For 1963 The Study was a great car!
TY. Really appreciated this. Didn't know how powerful they were and it was stock.
Avanti R2 is my all time favorite
Super Charged! Paxton!
A good friend of mine has 2 of the 9 r3 of 64 and I have a 61 hawk. The r3 Avanti also has no choke and no vacuum advance. There was also some r4 engines you could buy but they were
Never put into the cars from the factory
👍
'59 lark VIII, 3 on the tree with overdrive, red 2 door and '60 lark VI, automatic, blue 4 door were the cars I was driving when I got my license. my mom got each one for around $200 and I drove them into the ground. we took the 2 door off road many times with success. we had a 59 rambler American that was pretty cool push button tranny on the dash. a 64 rambler ambassador wagon, front end problems motor was too heavy. they were the stars of any neighborhood used car lots.
“Succulent secondaries!” You kill me man. 😁
Nothing plants you back in the seat like a Pontiac V8.
@@sometimesieatcake4156
Not a fair comparison.
Pontiac is horsepower.
It makes black marks.
Ex-wife is a horse.
She has stretch marks.
But I'm glad you like thic!
@@johntempest267 - THICC is in right now. Heat in the winter... shade in the summer
J.J - Joke’s over. Get some new material and up your game.
Mine was lame… Yet, you copied the same joke? What does that say about you? I’ll tell you: you have no sense of humor and you have no originality.
You used the exact same joke. We call that copying. Try to keep up, genius. And also try to stop projecting your mommy issues on everyone else.
I used to work at Avanti motors.. They are really bad ass cars
Love that Studebaker!
Great video. All of your videos are great. Those Studebakers truly were ahead of their time. But actually, it was Tucker who was the first to come with disc brakes. And of course the corrupt government at the behest of the big auto makers shut Tucker down before he could begin mass production. Tucker offered many firsts, including pop out safety glass and I believe safety belts too, among other things.
I don’t really know much about Tucker, so I’ll have to look into that! And 2 new videos coming out this week (Monday and Wednesday), so keep your eyes peeled!
@@CarsAndZebras I don't know if it's true or not, but I saw or heard somewhere that the movie about Tucker had lots of inaccuracies. I saw the movie years ago of course, and enjoyed it for what it was, but some of it did seem rather silly for depicting a real man and his cars. Would love to see someone do the research & create a video, providing they can find enough accurate information to to do. If someone has already done that, I have yet to see or hear about it.
I don't think so. Tucker wanted to put disk brakes on his cars but it didn't work out. The first American production car to offer disk brakes was the Crosley Hotshot, but Studebaker not only made them standard on the Avanti but made them available across the line. You could get the cheapest possible Lark with a six and straight 3 speed with disk brakes.
Good luck finding a stude brother! I suggest finding a studebaker club, they know all the owners, you might hook up with a great car from one of them!
Just google the Studebaker Driver's Club. We are a large, active club with a great magazine, and the International meet is coming up in just a few weeks. This year it's being held at the home of Studebaker, South Bend, Indiana.
I agree with the author, a 60 year old Avanti is still hardly out dated by looks today. Not trying to take away anything away from the Corvette, but man, what a beautiful car from the day.
Always thought the 68 FB would have looked really cool with hideaway headlights. The hot wheels light my firebird had them and made that car look SO mean
The ignorance of the Avanti among "car guys" is sad... pathetic actually.
I'm a Studebaker Nut since 1953 and also a Pontiac Guy from 1954 too.
low nickle steel blocks caused cylinder warping with the r2 very early mileage wise . my dad still owns his 63 r2
They’re cast iron
Interesting races. First one taken by Pontiac, second by Studebaker? Left lane seems faster? ;-) Thumb up.
for its day the avanti was the fastest US production sports car and do not mean quarter mile
Actually fastest production car in the world.
Andy Granatelli did a great job pulling 289 hp out of a dated Studebaker (dates back to 1951) 289CI engine (note the 5k red line) with a supercharger (small valves and poor breathing required the supercharger - no small block Ford tunnel-port head in the budget ). But putting it against a newer 400ci Firebird, it was out classed at a drag strip. However, but it did VERY well considering the deficit in both cubes and HP. But for style, the Avanti winds hands down. It's like comparing a work of art with a GM car
I owned a '68 Ram Air Firebird with an auto. Once you corrected the auto linkage and goofy blocking plate this car ran with the fastest of the day. The only musclecar I ever owned with an auto and it was much stronger that the big block Chevelles and Corvette I owned, all manuals. The only car I ever rode in with a harder 1-2 upshift was a 428 Cobra Jet Mach I. Fun times.
Avanti's were made as road cars, known for handling and braking on par with the best from Europe of the time, and faster to boot. The only American car that handled better was the Vette.
Always liked the '68 Firebird!
Love Avantis, but they were not technically advanced, other than they did offer disc brakes (front only) at a time when few, if any, other American manufacturers did. However, the frame and suspension were essentially the same as what Studebaker had developed way back in 1951, and still used kingpins up front long after everyone else had gone to ball joints. The motor, likewise, was basically the same motor first offered in 1951. It was tough, but extremely heavy for its size, and only had three exhaust ports (like early Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Packard V8s) long after everyone else had gone to separate exhaust ports for each cylinder. The Lark models still had removable rear fenders (quarters) right to the end. Studebaker was pretty much broke by the end of the 1956 model year; everything after that was developed on a shoestring budget. It is impressive that the company achieved as much as it did with so few resources.
Yes. They didn't have the funds to do much engineering so had to "work out of the existing parts bin". I know. I have one. But they had a number of novel things that were either new or seldom seen. While the early ones had the inside rear view mirror on a stalk up from the dashboard, they changed to cementing it to the windshield and were the first to do so. The built-in roll bar was nice. Rear seats were actually a little higher than the front seats for better rear passenger visibility. Largest piece of rear window glass (auto designers call this a "back light") in the world until the Plymouth Barracuda came out shortly after. First switches located above the windshield. Unusual gas tank placement, for safety, behind the rear seat. The usual gas tank location was instead for the spare tire under a round panel on the trunk floor. Inside trunk release (and the access door in the package shelf isn't really for getting stuff out of the trunk. It is the backup plan if the trunk release cable breaks so you can reach the latch inside with a long screwdriver. Otherwise, you would have to cut a hole in the Fiberglas somewhere.) Probably more gauges than had ever been on an American car, or most any car. But mechanically it was a sketchy affair. They added and/or beefed up torsion bars, but Avantis still handle pretty bad. Over 60% of the weight is on the front wheels. (The Studebaker 289 weighs 650 lbs. versus a Ford 289 at 460 lbs. Huge difference.) King pin steering is not very sophisticated, and it just has regular leaf springs at the rear. Some Avanti owners describe the ride and handling equivalent to a "lumber wagon". But considering the budget and the ludicrously short design time (40 days) and thought to be impossible time they got it to market (maybe 18 months) it really is a heck of a car.
Ball joints are just cheaper to make. The studebaker suspension is rock solid and was used in the Avanti right up to 1984. The Avanti frame dates to 1953. Who would have believed that a 1953 frame could become the Avanti in 1963. I think something was done right.
Thumb up for a good race. The Avanti was surprising, but I'll still take the Firebird 400. ;-)
I'll take the Avanti. "Studebaker, anything else is just too common."
There actually was a 2 barrel for the 400 Pontiac in 67-68 for GTO and Firebird. They’re really uncommon and you had to special order them. They basically were for guys who wanted the GTO or big engine and little better gas mileage. Or to get for your wife.
I've heard of the 2bbl on a couple GTOs in 68, but never on a Firebird. The GTO only came with the 400, but the Firebird had other engine options if you wanted economy. You could get a 2bbl 326 in 67 or a 2bbl 350 in 68 in a Firebird.
keith stoehr You may be right, I’m not 100% sure either. But pretty sure. I know you could get those other engine options for the Firebird, but I was speaking only about 400 motors. GTO definitely had a 2bbl option in 67 and 68, and I’m pretty sure you could make the same order on your Firebird. Especially since they were the same motors. I could be wrong because I haven’t bothered to confirm it with in depth research, but I’m pretty sure. I think it’s a silly option.
You prove that Drag Racing is not only for cigarette smoking cool guys with greasy hair lol!
Love your style!
LIKE/SUB
Thanks for watching!
Nice job. Loved it. Thanks
They had to be testing an R1... My 59 4dr Lark with two barrel and 259 V8 has turned mid 15s.. usually consistent low 16s. My Lark has 3 speed manual with overdrive, an TT rear end. My dad and I have had Studes for decades. An R2 Avanti should post way better ET than the published time in your magazine articles
Better check again . The Avanti clicked 170 plus at bonniville .
4 speed with Overdrive Super Hawk Dana twin traction 160 mph
68 Firebird 400....my dream car.
I wonder how the Avanti does on a road course? Seems like that's what it was meant for
I’m not sure, but I’d bet compared to the cars of the day it’d do very well!
I believe that the Avanti was meant to be the best all-round road car of the time. Comparing it to contemporary cars is: too late!
Only 2 passes ...the Stude nailed the tree on that second run.
Pontiac never sent cars, to be tested by journalists, without giving them a dyno tune, with tuned carbs, distributors, and optional gearing. Jim Wangers was very serious about Pontiacs performance image. Car and Driver tested a '65 Pontiac 2+2 ( Catalina size, for those unfamiliar) with a 421, that turned a sub 4 second 0 - 60 time.
I get the impression you kinda like those Studebakers!!!
I've owned Studebakers since 1953 when I bought my first one a 1948 Champion Starlite coupe. every one I've owned was a good car, never bought a new one , but all were 4 years old or older.... wish I could have afforded a new avanti in 1963, one of my Avantis I bought was in the fall of 1967, was hit in the front end and I put a new front end on in spring of 1968, the other two was bought later.
AFAIK, the Pontiac throttle restrictor was there to keep the car from exceeding the 1 hp per 10 pound weight GM restriction limit rule at the time.
Avanti..didnt the later ones have 327"s, or did owners put them in
all Avanti II had chevy engines.
HO option Pontiac's came with 4piston calipers which my 68 FB 350H0 320hp had. Pont calipers used much larger pistons than the 4 pot Vett and yes they were problematic if fluid wasn't bled&change👍
Was listening to someone drive the Avanti and it just sounds cool with the supercharger and all.
If only the company they subcontracted the body moulding to had gotten the right size moulds .. they were in a hurry and ended up too small .. had a hard time putting together the cars .. couldn't meet demand.
That Dodge Dart that lost the rear differential, I was there. I know the owner, was put together wrong. Rare Dodge, I am a Pontiac fan, but don't get satisfaction from someone else's misery.
Love your videos!
14:55 I can recall a 1963 Avanti R3 advertised for sale for $15K in the San Francisco Chronicle for months.
would have loved to see all those other cars race!!
Studebaker never advertised horsepower ratings for the Avanti engines.
There was a lot of speculation, and the numbers speculated were generally underrated.
The R3 engine was offered in production for '64 only, the 289 overbored 0.093 for 304.5 cubes and built up at Granatelli's shop. Granatelli wouldn't ship one until it had posted 415 horses on the dyno. About 20 of those engines were built, but only nine made it into Avantis and one in a '64 Commander (successor model to the Lark Regal).
There was also a normally aspirated R4 engine, the 304.5 with dual four-barrels and 12.5:1 compression and electronic ignition, generally estimated to be fractionally less powerful than the R2. I believe that two Avantis were so equipped'
The R5 (experimental, one built) was dual-supercharged with the type Bendix fuel injection system used on some Indy cars, built for the Avanti Due Cento (Two Hundred).
The Due Cento didn't make the target 200 mph at Bonneville because the salt was in poor condition at the time of the attempt, but the plan had been to reach 200 and then pop a drag parachute to startle the press, slow the car and give Studebaker's marketing department the most dramatic footage of all time for their commercials.
Side-bar, Studebaker Avanti was the first American manufacturer to offer _power_ front disc brakes of the type that would become the industry standard a few years later, but Crosley provided caliper-type disc brakes (non-power) on all wheels in their final years, and in the early fifties the Chrysler Imperial came with a unique clutch-type self-energizing brake system.
From '63 through the end in '66, Studebaker used a dual-circuit system on all cars equipped with drum brakes, but their disc brake system used a single circuit to all four wheels.
Among US car companies in 1963, only Studebaker, Rambler, and Cadillac used dual circuits.
So...adjusting for inflation I’m getting f’ed today.
Simply put.... yes.
Great race!
I love these videos
Pontiac always built some gorgeous vehicles.
Are you claiming Ford built three speed transmissions for GM ? Or , are you mistaking the Borg-Warner applications and fits used by various manufacturers?
i only know what avanti looks like because for some reason one sat in a shop window of a closed down warehouse right off route 2 in downtown Weirton for about 20 years….the building was demolished so now I always wonder what happened to that little white Avanti!!!
The Avanti cars were built on convertible frames, because they were stronger than the frames built for sedans and hardtops.
Almost forget in Peterson’s top 50 stock,#2or3 was a Buick Gran National 1986, I think the org. Cobra was the fasted but it wasn’t rated as a off the showroom floor or something!?
@4:00 😱
One of my favorite clips 🤣
That was sad to see that happen to that 50+ year old car, & you know warranty has looooooong since expired!
I have to admit, I knew next to nothing about the Avanti before seeing this video.
They gotta bring back Pontiac and Plymouth!
If you think an R3 Avanti was cool... there was also an R4 Avanti heheheheheheh
These are undoubtedly cool, but man, they look like the lead designer started at the rear, but had a pay cut and lost enthusiasm for his job 2/3 of the way to finishing.
Avanti ,Was the First PonyCar in production .
You're 400ci has 335bhp and 430lbs of torque, pretty impressive for the day!
As you said, interesting match up. However, if I had a nice old Studebaker Avanti, I would NOT be taking it to the drag strip to thrash it. These are very low production cars and should be treated like the cultural artifacts that they are. Certainly, take it out and drive it, and even open it up on the highway now and then, but don't beat the crap out of it at the drag strip.
I have three 1963 R-2 Avantis with 4-speed and would NEVER take them to the dragstrip, they are too rare to tear them up, they have already been proven on the Salt Flats in 1962 before they were put on the market and broke 29 speed records .
A Studebaker Avanti is a musclecar now...LOL
In 1990 or 89 I bought Peterson’s hot rod mag. They had a List of the 50 fastest quarter mile times
Of stock off the showroom floor American Muscle ! Remember this was from 1990 down.#1 to my surprise was a 1968 Firebird 400; fasted mopar 440-2-4bbl,in the top ten were3-455 GM also 1 426 Hemi .GM had the most in the top ten! Ford had 1, I think it was the 428 cobra!
67 and 68 Firebird is in my opinion one of the best looking cars ever made. Those and 70 to 73 Camaros are my personal favorites. I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for an RA and Z28 today.
DAMN those are cool
Studebaker would have been much quicker if it did not have the BW auto in it. good match up however. Both cars running good.