How to decontaminate a radioactive person - nuclear chemistry
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- Today, I wanted to give you an insight into a possible decontamination protocol for personal contamination.
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0:00 Contaminated shoe
2:54 contaminated hand
5:16 Additional infos
5:52 Bye :)
#radioactivity #nuclear #decontamination
RUclips: two unskippable 2 minute ads
Me who is 3 minutes from a lethal dose of radiation: :(
Skill issue
Skill issue
Skill issue
Ublock Orgin saves lifes
@@Nikola_M *lives
"Hope it's short lifed radionuclide so you can get your shoe back in three years"
I was afraid they would have to confiscate and incinerate your hand :(
Ouch ;(((((
(Pulls out a science machete)
Sharp scratch lado
typical german humor - no laughing matter D:
Never trust a skinny chef or a person who works in radiology with all their limbs intact.
@@IcespherePlaysGames also, don't trust me with a machete based amputation... my aims terrible
That's an expensive shoe to lose to radiation.
We all need a Marco in our labs 😂
I was waiting for a Polo NGL😔
*Marko
Do I work with radiation? No.
Is there the slightest chance I could end up irradiated? No.
Did I watch the full 6 minute video? Yes.
Am I now concerned the Government is going to incinerate my shoes? Possibly...
Don't talk like that, I'm sure if you tried hard enough you too can become irradiated. Don't be discouraged in persuing your life goals.
Once my sister was working in radiopharmacy and some idiot didn’t report or clean up a spill.
Turns out that she became so contaminated that she needed a shower, and all her clothes were locked away in a safe for three days. So they made her drive home in her underwear (no shoes or socks).
She was PARANOID that she was going to get pulled over and have to explain.
Oh shit :[ fortunately we have a pair of definetly oversized everything :D
Couldn't she just borrow a clean lab coat or something.
Also didn't anyone have a jacket or something they could let her borrow?
That must've sucked a lot.
yea, kinda bad work environment where noone could lend her anything - not to mention someone not reporting an accident, if that person was qualified for the job is questionable - hope she isn't paranoid now and hopefully found a better job environment? 🙂
Accidents happen, just goddamn clean them up and write the necessary report! - it could be you stepping into an radiated mess without knowing just because some a-hole not doing their duty! ;-)
Did they cut off her hair too?
i have never worked in a chemistry lab why am
i watching this. because it is very well made and clear i suppose
I visited Chernobyl in 2019 and quickly realized how contagious is radioactive dust. Simple road dirt sticks to everything and the hand you use to clean yourself easily attracts even more dust. It was an eye opening moment for me to realize that there is basically no way to solve such a situation. You can only hope that it won't happen to you.
did you try to decontaminate afterwards or what was the process?
@@welln0w blow air carefully over your hands, DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING, ESPECIALLY THE EYES, and hope that the radiation sensors on the two outpost work properly.
Everyone say "thank you marco"
You stood on the machine, took off the contaminated shoe and then stood on the machine again. Did you accidentally contaminate your sock?
Interesting thought, and depending if it's a sealed source in your shoe or not, it's going to be a yes if it's not sealed and no if it's sealed
Good idea. Apparently not otherwise the detector would also go off. That would have been Bad but in that case I'd at least have a sock to take off and try yet again^^
No. It's a drill. :)
@@glasslinger I know it was an example, but still. If that would be a real scenario and he would step on some substance, then doing those procedures as shown in this video could lead to contaminating other parts of his clothing.
It did look to me like it would make a lot of sense to put a paper towel on the detector.
5:52 A special thx goes to MARCO!!
I love how industrial and old school the monitoring equipment looks.
This is why you see people walking around with just one shoe on in many nuclear power plants
at 1st i read this as "How to contaminate a radioactive person"
MARCO!!!! xD
POLO!!!! xD
this video is gonna blow up some day.
Compared to my other Videos this already blew up ;D
@@SimonsNuclearchemistry never mention radiation on the internet - you're propably on some watchlists by the paranoia states now xD
@@BlackRedDead1943 making Videos about radiation for the University is part of my Job ;D
They should hire you to make the safety videos
I will work for them in some months^^ we don't need that many safety Videos as stuff like that never happened before and it was also exciting for my Prof to think about it. Atm its more important to explain our experiments to our student and thats the stuff I am working on (next weeks Video for example^^)
I set of the alarm bells going IN to Brookhaven labs, they took me aside , a detector much like your lab partner, I found out a bone growth (just above my occipital protrusion) is 6x background.. I have no idea how. Its been 30yrs, thinking of going back so I can get an idea of the half-life..
I don't think my head would safely fit in a spectrometer.
But yeah, been there done that.
Great Video!
Good video. I'm not sure about Germany but my country has laws surrounding preserving evidence after workplace accidents, so if you think you might have gotten more than your statutory dose limit, that shoe isn't waste, its evidence.
The state collection point took my shoe!
We making it out the vault with this one! Im coming dad! Project purity awaits
I could never do your job. Impressive
Love your accent / voice. Dieses Video is Prima!
Would you want to place paper towel on the machine where you had stepped to remeasure? Or is it not likely to have decent amount of contamination since you've already been walking around?
The contaminated guy now has 7 fingers on each hand and 5 ears.
Very interesting, but we hopefully have never to decontaminate in a real world scenario and only in our practice sessions. Because I'm a voluntary firefighter in Germany and on our part of the Autobahn there are often enough chemical or radioactive transports (radioactive mostly for medical applications) if an accident were to happen with such an transport and we don't notice early enough the special danger (for example the warning signs flew away from the vehicle because of the impact) we would have to decontaminate us and our gear on the Autobahn. Without spilling contaminated water all over the road. And our shoes are most likely little bit more expensive than yours. Just because they should be able to withstand couple of hundreds °C and so on.
Klingt nicht so geil ;D bestimmt waren auch paar Radioaktivtransporte für und von unserem Labor dabei^^
@@SimonsNuclearchemistry Das meiste sind wirklich sehr kurzlebige Isotope für die Medizin. Um damit die Aktivität gewisser Organe sichtbar zu machen. Also man gibt Patient radioaktives Präparat zum Schlucken und dann beobachtet man wo der Körper nach wie viel Minuten anfängt zu strahlen. Aktivere Organe werden mehr Stoffwechseln also wandert das Zeug eher in diese Körperregionen. Damit man während der Untersuchung halbwegs was messen kann muss da schon eine gewisse Aktivität da sein. Aber damit das dann nicht über Monaten mit der selben Aktivität weiter strahlt kurze Halbwertszeit. Hat den Vorteil man braucht auch weniger von dem Stoff für selbe Aktivität. Soweit ich weiß sollten die meisten dieser Transporte hier mit der Uniklinik Jena zusammenhängen.
Klasse gemacht! 😄 An welcher Uni bist Du? EDIT: Hätte ich mal eine Minute bis zum Ende des Videos gewartet... 😁 Grüße aus dem Ruhrpott!
Uni Köln :D
Wasn't the hand-foot monitor itself now contaminated at the bottom?
it would blink if that was the case :)
1:50 if the contamination was on the outside couldn't getting right back on make the issue worse? would there be a mat or something that could be placed down in an actual incodent?
I love that a bar of soap was used in this scenario, and not liquid soap xD
@1:47 what if it was on the sole of the shoe? Does the monitor continue to beep? Otherwise you would now have it on your socks. Wouldn't it make more sense to have emergency marco hold the detector to your foot?
That's exactly what I was thinking
Marco ist ganz geil, beste Mann auf alle zeiten 😅
Thanks for this, my daughter just came back from McDonalds.
When you stepped back in to check the if the foot is not contaminated anymore (after taking the shoe down) isn't there any risk in contaminating your foot/sock, since the radioactive shoe already touched the apparatus surface before? Wouldn't it be necessary to install some kind of plastic barrier protection that would be changed in case of contamination in order to mitigate this risk ?
great thought! The monitor would show even without stepping on it, if radioactivity is nearby. But of course there might be the risk, that is not enough to trigger it... in that case ... you'd take of your sock^^. BUT tbh none of us really has experience with that kind of stuff as it never happened in the last like 5 years at least. It was more like a fun video because our students at the university always ask that question before entering the nuclear lab :D
sehr cool, hab einen Mirion Argon PAB in meinem labor, doch wäre es mir wahrscheinlich lieber, wenn wir einen analogen detktor hätten, weil der computer immer kaputt ist
what if i dont have a marko near me?
Marco? ...
*other room*
Polo?
Guten Abend, schöne Feiertage 😊
How are you able to tell that you were contaminated in the first place? Great video
Mostly guess and check. Better Safe than sorry. If there might be the possiblity of a contamination, you better check^^
Good thing getting rid of splurge stains isn’t as hard… most of the time.
This seems so intense for such low levels of radioactivity! I know it is a good thing and environmental authorities are strict but I feel like you can easily come across sources with >300 cpm as someone in the general public
Sure, but you don't work with radioactive material all day
It's like an xray, it's safe to have a couple, but the doctors still stand behind a wall because it's dangerous to always be exposed to xrays
How did you trigger your sensors? For the hand one, not the shoe.
Marco Held a radioactive sample to the detector ;D thats why you never saw the whole device
At 1:45 you step on the same spot where you stood with the radioactive liquid on your shoe.
Wouldnt thst mean that A your socks are now contaminated and B the metal mesh is still contaminated from the first time you stepped on it, so it akways beeps?
And what if its a worst case scenario like if you spilled the 2mS/h cs137 liguid on your hand?
Maybe... apparently not and it doesn't have to be. Some radionuklides Stick to Rubber more than to Metall. Most of them don't behave like gum but if they were to do so, I'd have one last Chance by taking of my sock :D BUT the detector also Show if significant activities are nearby even if you don't step on it. To the lamp for the shoes would stay Red before I stepped on the detector
Well well well... Lots of Hand washing and praying that it comes off (you can't Do much more). Also about my Hand washing: I didn't Do it perfectly textbook like. You are supposed to scrub only away from you.
Sometimes bits that you tracked in on your shoes do end up falling in to the grid that protects the mylar or mica window that covers the gas proportional detector. It is a disassembly process to take the screen off and decontaminate that. If it is a loose bit of material that is just resting upon the surface of the window (a super-thin film) then a gentle puff of compressed air (in a filtered glove-box) can remove that.
In the worst case (something liquid that drips down on to the detector film) it means the replacement of the mylar or mica window.
I have had to replace mylar windows on gas proportional detectors. It takes about a half-hour to disassemble, remove the old film and to put down a new film window, getting the edges to seal properly and to ensure that you do not have a "light leak" (light inside of the detector makes it give a reading). The window is super-thin and very fragile. The gas inside of the detector is known as "P-10" (90% argon, 10% methane) and is maintained at a very slight positive pressure of a few millibars with a very tiny (deliberate) leak to allow the gas to flush through the detector.
The foot monitor didn't need to be cleaned between removing the shoe and standing on it with socks?
Apparently it was clean. Otherwise it would have blinked :D
Next episode: what to do when you drink radioactive water. Marcoooo!
✍️✍️✍️
During university I had to leave a shoe behind while moving between areas in one facility.
The health physics folks asked me repeatedly if I had stepped outside of the roped or taped off areas. I had not; It was just some nuclear 'flea' that must of flaked off of overhead piping (a decommissioned commercial BWR nuclear reactor).
Talking with some of the 'old hands' who did experience (external) contamination and the process of decontaminating gets progressively more aggressive. One went home with his arms stained brown from potassium permanganate (one of the decon steps).
oh yeah in nuclear reactors, they need to take things WAY more serious than we need to. We don't have that strict of rules. It was meant to be a fun video that our students requested and thats our "would realistically look something like this" answer to it. :D
Reminds me of a Funranium story about glass shattering in a glovebox, with the shards injuring its user. They wrapped the gloves in plastic to contain the contamination and got medical treatment in the parking lot.
The gloves were cut off, glass was removed, stitches were delayed to let the wounds clean themselves (no mention of saline), and many samples were taken to estimate uptake/contamination/decontamination.
Anyway, the part I'm reminded of is that at one point they took a biopsy and completely decontaminated a wound in the process.
I'm terrified after watching HBO's CHERNOBYL... scary stuff.
This is not how I would have expected the cleanup to go. Especially the second one. My inclination for how it would go if I thought my hand touched something it shouldn't be would first be to remove it. So remove gloves, if any. Then wash hands. Then check for further contamination. So that whatever is there is removed ASAP.
1:45 your lab partner helpfully laid out paper towels on the floor so you could set your foot down without re-contaminating it, but didn't put any paper towels on the spot where the foot goes on the radiation monitor. the shoe touched that surface too, so wouldn't that be a re-contamination risk?
Good question! If it actually were in larger quantities, where one should be concerned, the lamp from the detector would light up even before measuring. Ofc very tiny amounds could fly under the Radar. If that were to be the case, I'd had to take of my sock, and we'd have to continue without the hand-feet Monitor.
why no shoe bootie/shrinkwrap machine?
Not common in german nuclear Labs. And ours is among the smallest
These Der8auer videos are getting crazy
Wouldn’t stepping on the detector contaminate it?
Could be but if that was the case, the detector would blink to show you
MARCO!!
is there a solution that could absorb surface contamination?
Yes. There are special cremes, we call them "decon-soap". They have an addition of chelat ligands, that form very stable complexes with certain metall-ions and it that case, radioactive metall-ions.
thats typically used for skin. Mostly surfaces like workbench you would try the following: 3 times Water -> 3*ethanol -> 3*dilute acid. But mostly just water is enough and if it works with water, one would keep decontaminating with water. Very rarely the radionuclide doesn't come of with ethanol /isoprop. Keeping it simple is most often enough
You could have easily contaminated your sock by stepping on the monitor where your shoe was.
The detector blinks if its contaminated
Heh, honestly when I clicked on the video i kinda expected more apocalyptic scenario, like return to the shelter after nuclear fallout, get rid of all the clothes, shave head, wash thoroughly and stuff yourself with iodine kind of stuff 😂
The quicker picker upper
The video doesnt state why/if the smoke from incineration does not contaminate the air.
final repository of radioactive waste isn't the focus when some contaminates themselfe and isn't in general for a nuclear lab BUT I can answer your question here :D so when we deal with radioactive waste, we are allowed to keep certain radionuclides like S-35 and P-32 until they decayed. For something like Tc and Cs-137 we have to pay around 2000 Euro per canister. The stuff will be burned in a specialized vessel (not by us) and we have to also pay a certain price for the volume of radioactive ash that will have to be stored "forever". The air is ofc filtered and since we don't work with Tritium or C-14 anything else that is radioactive won't make it into the gas phase or if, can be filtered.
@@SimonsNuclearchemistry got it. And you also talked about washing the shoes under the tap. I'm hoping that water doesn't just go down the drain?
@@rlhugh I think I mentioned that but yes. Our water never goes directly into public drain. We have huge tanks where it goes into in case something like that happens :D Cleaning one of these is very close to slave work xD
Does that machine read in Grays ?
Nope in CPS
@@SimonsNuclearchemistry so yous guys only deal with alpha and beta radiation ? Hey thats still a lot more RAD than surfactants 🥺🥺🥺💀💀🤣🤣🤣
@@seansingh4421 mainly just beta. I think offically we are classified as beta laboratory. But that machine doesn't convert to energy. It just detects if there is radioactivity or not. If its Cs-137, S-35 or whatever it doesn't really care and most of the time, when we step on it, we also don't care... unless it detects something (which it never does) then you got some analysis to do ;D
Okay, so if you have a large amount of contaminate on the sole of your shoe, and then step up on the scanner, you've now got that contaminate all over the the sensor. Then you step up on the sensor in your sock, thus contaminating the sock. Seems like there is a gap in your procedure.
I never started with a large amount of contamination. If the detector is contaminted, it would have blinked. Since it didn't I could just step on it again
...Polo
You reiterated yourself on the first one you were talking about with your left foot putting it back where the shoe was originally on the ground before you got back on the scale to test yourself…
The detector blinks when its contaminated :D
You stepped with the shoes on the machine then placed your bare foot on the same place that the contaminted shoe was, I dont understand how this is correct
If contamination stayed on the detector, the detector would have blinked
you can get you shoe aftern 3 years xD
Marco!!!
This is cool, wish i could do nuclear chemistry stuff lmfao
Go to the University of cologne :D every chemistry Student can do nuclear there^^
@@SimonsNuclearchemistry Oh neat, ill consider that, thank you!!
So he re stood on the scale thing where it was contaminated with his foot in his sock, seems like a slip up in procedure
If it was contaminated, the thing would have blinked
@@SimonsNuclearchemistry no it wouldn’t as this is a training scenario, but in real life if the bottom of his show was contaminated, when he stepped on the tester the contamination would transfer to to foot pad, which he then re stood on after taking his shoe off, should the tester not be de contaminated in between positive results? By re stepping onto the surface he contaminated wouldn’t he just re contaminate himself.
@@SimonsNuclearchemistry am I right or wrong about spreading the contamination from the shoe to the standing surface then re contaminated the sock when re standing where the contaminated shoe was?
@@vhwft i would blink if the detector would be contaminated. Since I faked it by having a sealed source in my shoe or my palm ofc it didn't stay there :D
*checks dosimeter* "shit.... MMMMMMAAAAARRRRRCCCCOOOOO!!!!!!"
*Broooo, this will become a meme in 3 years*
Redo the video, but with Professor Farnsworth ranting about radiation exposure.
Türkçe altyazı da koysaydın keşke
So, what happens if Marco is not around? Can we rent him or send him an email?
You are only allowed to work in the lab, when Marco is in screaming distance
POLO!
You contaminated a full bar of soap
Oh now.... anyway ;D
The procedure shown does seem to need some optimization. In my opinion you should definitely put on gloves before removing the contaminated shoe. It could be an improvement to have some piece of easy to clean furniture to sit on while removing the shoe.
For a training video you might want to emphasize that it is required to ensure the detector does not show a relevant reading after it has been in contact with a contaminated item, otherwise you should not step onto it before cleaning.
The single use towels dispenser is empty and there’s a towel that seems to be meant for multiple uses. Indeed, your colleague provided single use paper towels. A block of soap is usually not considered a hygienic solution and in this special case it’s another item that might get contaminated and spread contamination. Finally, the sink looks way too small and the tap should allow to wash the arms as well without spilling water to the floor.
This was never meant to be a Training Video. I totally agree with you in most points. But some are not possible for us to improve on. A case even similar to this, never occured to anyone of us in lab and we struggle a lot with our lab space, so replacing the sink is not an Option for us. The towel is there as we use this sink for just regular Hand washing before going out of the lab.
This video was more a sketch to our students constantly asking "but what if" ;D
Both the title of the video and the text at the bottom claiming it’s a staged exercise for educational purposes may lead to the impression that it is a training video. I was thinking that it’s a serious video.
In my opinion single use paper towels as well as liquid soap from a dispenser should be used even under regular conditions in a lab. Why don’t you utilize the already present dispenser units for both? It looks like a measure to minimize cost at the expense of safety (concerning any kind of contamination).
Overall I hope some of this feedback might be helpful. Stay healthy y’all!
You took off your shoe and stepped on the same contaminated area on the machine...
At this point I refer to the whole comment section
HULK LIKE VIDEO! HULK NO SMASH.
dont you boyz wear hand protection
Thats why the contents of this video will prolly never apply to a real life scenario^^ but ppl make mistakes especially after a long day in the lab :)
och
Probably get fired for not wearing full PPE
Nah. Shit happens🤷♂️ its ok. Ofc not optimal but eh...
zamzam water
That some stout dog poo you stepped in.
You sound so much like DOCM77 😭
There goes your chances of having an offspring
What if Marco is having a poo?
You will have to be transported away in a lead case and stay in the radioactive storage forever
The classic "if it can detect contamination, it cant be contaminated"...
You put paper on the ground so you dont stand on contamination left by the shoe. The shoe that was on the detector you just stood on without a second thought...
If this is how your procedure is actually written, you have my permission to grab a red marker and write a correction straight into the procedure book.
You guys should maybe take another approach to emergency practices then what was likely 6 dudes having a brainstorming meeting in a semi dark, painfully quiet meeting room once 30 years ago then everyone afterward having confidence that it was thought through correctly.
Go watch the "how germs spread" video from mythbusters and you will see the only way to come to a real understanding of how contamination works.
I enjoyed watching your walk through. Stay safe and get safer. Always.
We thought about this before Hand and in that case realistically it doesn't make enough of difference if my sock would then be contaminated or if I put on another paper on the detector (would ofc be nice though but none of us ever had to Deal with a real contamination in the last 10 years some of us were in this lab). I could still take of the sock and try yet again BUT the detector shows if there is significant radioactivities nearby even if you don't step on it. So even if, the there was to be some activity in the detector, it wouldn't be very high and if there was, I'd have to take of my sock as well. Radionuclides don't behave like germs or glue. The radionuclides we work with would either be massaged into the ground by my few steps towards the room or would stay in the Rubber of the shoe. We don't work with P-32 usually or with Iodine.
@@SimonsNuclearchemistry
Understood, obviously i dont know exactly the sort of contamination is possible your case, im just the type to believe the only caution for something you cant see like radioactivity and electricity is to be over cautious and expect us to not know what we dont know.
I would argue if its anything that can be dissolved or suspended in micron granules (i know things like uranium can be at least suspended in liquid), then it should be treated like a germ, but again i dont know if its something like that or more like metal shavings..
It just made me chuckle in that moment is all.
@@Vatsyayana87 I would kill to have Uranium metall shavings available :D We have these big Thorium rods, and don't have machines to turn them into usable sized chunks or shavings. Its done maybe once a year and its just "brute force and screaming" to get them smaller. Maybe I get to film it next time^^
Immer lustig wie man die deutschen Kollegen direkt am Dialekt erkennt obwohl es eigneltich ziemlich gutes Angelsächsisch ist.
Dat Video gibts auch auf Deutsch :D Guck den deutschen Kanal und leide nicht unter meinem gebrochenem Englisch xD
Sorry but you stepped barefoot on the machine where your contaminated shoe was in contact....cross-contamination guaranteed...
I never walked barefoot anywhere
Oh sorry frenchglich here 😂: in socks / without shoe at 1:45.
Omg yeeeesss imagine stepping on some gum and discovering reactor no 7
In Ukraine exploded
CRINGE 😬
You stepping on the detector after removing the shoe makes me cringe as anything dripping from shoe to detector is now on your sock... why not hand-detect the foot after? Although if there's enough to get on the detector maybe you've got bigger problems.
The detector blinks if its contaminated and it completely depends on the form of the radionuclides. Not all radionuclides behave like some horror glue. Take Uranium for example: Uranylnitrate and Uraniumtetrafluoride behave completely different.
My fellow germans, why the hell you measure that much instead just clean it properly as first measurement to be sure, and THEN measure it, to make sure there eighter was no need for the cleaning or it being successful!
Edit:
i mean srsly, if you're working with radioactive substances and you messed up something, it doesn't take a walk trough the lab (contaminating even more) to a measurement stand (btw. funny you stepped onto it with socks after you had been standing there with contaminated shoes - i hope you cleaned that stand off-camera inbetween shoots! ;-) and creating even more hassle, to know exactly where you have contaminated and what you need to do to clean it up - if any, manual masurements on site of the accident to determent if more cleaning is necessary is the better route IMHO
I'm an engineer who has worked in a radioisotope laboratory for over 10 years and I have never once been contaminated because I don't trust chemists and I treat the whole building like it's coated in fecal matter. I don't touch anything without gloves, i don't touch my face, i don't bring things into the lab and set them down, I ask the lab owners extensive questions on history and current operations before touching anything. I've seen enough sketchy stuff to have a healthy fear of you guys and the invisible turds you leave smeared all over the place.
Where did you get that hand and foot? Is that home built or just older than Jesus? I've never seen anything like that. They sure don't make those anymore.
Prolly older than jesus😂 same with many things in our nuclear lab. We even have a functioning Lithium drifted Germanium detector^^