Shaking instead of deep WDT- first impressions with the MHW-3Bomber (Timemore Sculptor 078S)
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- Опубликовано: 2 фев 2024
- Please follow this technique but shake for 15-20 seconds. • Blind Shaker This is my first impression of using the grind shaker instead of WDT. #espresso #coffee #078S #timemore #wdt
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Thanks for doing this using the MHW 3Bomber version- i think a lot of people are considering it after Lance's video today. You should try to copy the technique used in the weber workshops videos. i.e. seems like they lift the bottom portion up, then tap it against the sides a few times (presumably to knock off some of the grounds clinging due to static), put it aside, then they do a "swirling" motion while still holding the funnel onto the portafilter to help even it out and minimize the need for puck raking.
Thanks for the tips!
@@UnderstandingCoffee Is it just me or does the MHW shaker seem shorter or narrower than the weber one? You seem to have a harder time pulling up the stopper without spilling the grounds... It's got me looking at other unbranded blind shakers on ali that look closer to the shape of the weber one. :\
This shaker has an external diameter of 68mm and internal diameter of 64mm. I think the Weber shaker is 70mm. Height is the same I think. I think it’s user error- it was tricky having to work around the tripod! It’s much easier when you’re not filming. Also I think with shaking for 20 seconds, you get ‘densification’ as LH suggests which probably makes it a bit harder for the grinds to drop. Shaking for just a few seconds like in the Weber video allows the grinds to fall more freely.
The grinds seem to stick to the surface unlike with the Weber but it is minimal. Thanks for the tips btw. I’ve pulled the best shot yet! The swirl helps a lot but I still needed minimal puck raking
Thanks for this video! I bought an unbranded version after seeing Lance’s video as well. I wonder if using a weighted distribution tool would be better to flatten the bed as opposed to raking it?
@@jons3808Do you mean the levelling tools that spin and flatten the puck? I think they have been debunked as causing less EY when compared to doing nothing!
hi - appreciate the quick follow up to LH's videos - I have a HG2 which with a slight 3d printed hack (I'll make a lid this week) will give me the "no seeing eye agitator" - invest in a spray bottle a quick mist of water gets rid of the static - the hg2 combs as you grind but you still need to wdt at the end (and like you I give it a tap/whack) prior to tamp
Cool! The HG2 looks awesome.
As you have mentioned, I find that I need to grind quite a bit finer. Even then, my shot time has decreased by about 5 to 7 seconds. I also notice more of what seems like channeling (I could be just imagining things). Shots taste fine though, I guess I need to play around with it more.
Yes, I had to go quite fine. About 2 notches on the 078S. Channeling hasn’t been a problem though. Taste has improved for sure.
lance mentioned in his video that the shot time is decreased but is ok becoz it taste good even the time reduced by 5secs (the same happen to me). but i din bother to grind it finer to achieve the shot time 😅 we shall experiment with that 🤣
Have you ever tried lifting the blunt shaker to release the coffee like Lance did? If so, did the coffee fall easily into the filter or make a mess?
I use a dosing ring and place the shaker on top. You don’t have to lift the shaker. I think if you use a coarser grind, it will fall easily. If you prefer finer grinds, it’s a bit more difficult to drop the grinds.
Can 58mm blind shaker still good for 53-54mm portafilter? (Even if it is not the best)
The MHW-3Bomber website states that the shaker can be used for 51-54 mm and 58 mm. I think if you use a 54mm dosing ring and place the shaker on top, it should work as the inner diameter is smaller. . Might not be the best fit but it should do the job.
Greeting from Thailand. I've seen version 2.0 of this tool has "hanging buckle". But I have no idea how to use it. Do you know?
No, sorry. I haven’t seen that version
@@UnderstandingCoffee It's the one that you are using in this video. 3bomber advertises as "New lifting rod for hanging buckle process."
@@failogyIt is indeed. I’m not sure but I think it means you can put a hangman’s knot around it and use that to lift and shake the lever.
I guess it’s for hang the internal thing on the border of the cup, so after you left the coffee fall, you can lift all the blind shaker using your free hand, assuming you have the other hand holding the portafilter
“Shaking instead of wdt”
*continues to wdt
It is instead of deep WDT. It is deep WDT that is potentially problematic. Puck raking only affects the superficial layers. Anyway, with the technique shown in the Weber video, the puck raking required is minimal. @GregTiu kindly directed me to the video. Check out the comments section if you’re interested.
Are you using a Pressensor? How do you find it?
This is essily the most exciting piece of coffee equipment but nobody makes videos about it. I would be extremely grateful if you made one!
I use the Pressensor app along with the Acaia Lunar to measure flow. This combined with the pressure gauge at the group head is adequate. I would like to use the Pressensor though!
Nice video. I use also mhw-3bomber cup with success. However, as Lance said, the ideia is not to grind finer to met 30s shot. The idea is to have more extraction, even with a shorter shot time. If you grind finer for a longer shot, you will improve the chance to have more channels, or extract even more, giving you bitterness.
Try the shot without changing the grind size from a full WDT method.
To avoid the coffee mountain, try to rotate the portafilter, as explained in Lance's last espresso uncut post.
Regards,
Thanks! I’ll change my technique for future testing. I think Lance went for a constant pressure of 9 bar. My preference is a constant flow of 2-2.5 ml/s which means a variable pressure. I found that grinding finer gave tastier espresso but we all should be guided by taste which is highly individual.
Gotta tap it around like a bell
Thanks for the tip. I’ve watched the Weber videos so for future testing I’ll use this technique
I came to comment that as well. I have the Weber one and you use the bell in a circle coming up.
The lack of a magnetic connection is a real buzz skill lol.
The lack of a magnetic base is helpful with the 078S. Some users have found that the magnetic base of the Weber shaker interacts with the magnet on grinder which means it’s quite finicky to use.
Now I'm not sure if I should buy this one. It seems like magnets at the bottom is really needed to make the workflow easier.
It seems to fit well. It’s fairly cheap so worth a gamble.
@@UnderstandingCoffee I can't remember your username on EAF but wanted to send you another tumbler link from AliExpress
@@erikngomezyou could post a link here.
@@UnderstandingCoffee tried and RUclips deleted the comment.
@@erikngomez You could post what it’s called and the name of the website you found it on.
Purpose of shaking is to mix uneven distributed ground from grinder, but this shaker is smaller and not as smooth as weber so wdt is still needed to reduce channeling.
To me, slowfeeding +wdt is still best method. Slowfeed should reduce uneven distribution already.
This shaker make worse workflow imo.
Thanks for your comment. It’s not much smaller. External diameter is 68 mm. I’m still experimenting but haven’t had to do deep WDT. A bit of puck raking to level out the coffee is enough. For me, slow feeding doesn’t work as it introduces a variable I can’t precisely control. But there’s more than one way to get a decent extraction!
The point of shaking is not to use wdt afterwards tho
I think it is deep WDT that is potentially problematic. Puck raking only affects the upper layer. I’ll be testing with and without puck raking too.
In LH's video, think he mentioned Doug himself also prefers to use the blind shaker + minimal wdt on upper layer
Agreed, the title is incorrect "Shaking instead of WDT"
When comparing 2 techniques you should use them separately one after each other. Using them both and only making 1 coffee is just logically wrong for a comparrison video.
@@pooinapool changed that to deep WDT. Most don’t consider puck raking to be WDT but you could call it superficial WDT.
Isn't his intention to avoid using WDT?
Superficial WDT is required simply to level the puck. Have you seen the more recent video by Lance on how he makes espresso? In that video, he uses the WDT tool after shaking.
@@UnderstandingCoffee
So what would be the specifics of the blind shaker? Is it really necessary?
@@Mfuaothe shaker provides the densification which allows for better extraction. The WDT tool should not go deep, just 1-2 mm. It’s simply to make the puck surface level.
@@UnderstandingCoffee Thanks for the answers, can I ask you one more thing that has nothing to do with this video itself?
so I bought the breville smart grinder grinder and an oster perfect brew espresso machine (compact version with 51mm filter, I adjusted the burr to 3 and set it to grind 05 and still my espresso comes out in 12 seconds. I don't know if it's the pressurized filter or the fault of coffee with old roasts that my coffee always comes out very fast and acidic and the machine always indicates the minimum pressure, could the pressurized filter be the problem? or is it something else?
No problem. I am not familiar with the oster. If the roast is old, you will not get a good extraction and it will run fast. Try using coffee that has been roasted less than six weeks prior. Also I just realised you are using a pressurised portafilter. WDT or shaking really doesn’t really matter in that case as the resistance is generated by the small opening at the portafilter rather than the puck.
I say it's just a fancy dosing funnel, and by the looks of it, added mess for no significant gains.
It’s the shaking which is apparently what makes the difference. So in theory you could use any wide container. Shaking the narrow grind cup simply causes more clumping.
@@UnderstandingCoffeewhat makes you think it causes clumping? Did you test it?
@@Matthew-ir1ed Yes I tried shaking with the grind cup before I got this shaker. This is why I was so sceptical about shaking being more effective. I am still on the fence. Without more testing, I can’t say for sure
I tried shaking with the catch cup (i am using a niche zero cup, but ground with a 078s), and it really makes a mess. The grounds get stuck to each other and I get no flow at all, it doesn't work.
@@guiwood my experience has been completely opposite to yours. Shaking makes a much more uniform aggregate. (I use the niche zero dosing cup, but I am also grinding with the niche zero)
You don’t need to grind finer. Let it rip faster!
The faster shots are tasty but lack a bit of body. Also I like a flat white occasionally- the faster extraction doesn’t shine through as much as a longer extraction. It’s individual preference though! I’ve found that shaking for 15 seconds or longer allows more densification- so grinding finer isn’t required.
I don't know why these gizmos are designed to seat on the basket 'internally', i.e., such that they leave a groove in the grounds around the circumference of the basket because of the sleeve that inserts into the basket. This is a problem that has been 'solved' by funnel makers for a long time. The groove in the bed requires additional treatment, e.g, WDT or "raking" as you term it. To me, it just looks like an additional step that causes static & mess *and* because of that adds to the variability of the whole process. To be honest, I have better things to do with my money than dump it into the next nifty thing that is supposed to get me ambrosia but doesn't. Sorry; I do value the content; very informative.
Using a dosing ring with the shaker as LH suggests mitigates the need to puck rake to a large extent. I’m still testing it but so far the results have been pretty positive and consistent.
Lance's shots ran faster, 22 sec, so maybe you shouldn't grind finer than with just WDT for fear of over extracting? You could also use a brush to brush out the grounds stuck on the inside of the shaker with the portafilter attached.
Thanks for the suggestions. Not a fan of turbo shots to be honest. I much prefer the longer extractions as it gives a better body.
@@UnderstandingCoffee I don't think that it was a turbo shot, it was just that the shaker made for a more uniform grind through "desification" which sped up the shot. But if you are happy with a finer grind, go for it! Thanks for the video.
@@jakevan1969 I’m not entirely sure about that as in his previous video, the extraction time for all techniques including the shaker was about 40 seconds. You can find this in the spreadsheet that he has linked to in the description.
@@UnderstandingCoffeeOkay. Good to know. Thanks. Today I made a pour over and shook the grounds in a little Tupperware container. I was thinking that it doesn't have to be a blind shaker to get your shake on.
@@jakevan1969you are right. It just needs to be a wide container. I guess it’s a bit trickier to transfer the grinds to a portafilter for espresso.
Not convinced to be honest by the efficacy. The clumps I get after shaking in the catch cup and dumping make it impossible to get a clean shot without WDT for me. I have no clue how this method can be “more consistent” than regular WDT as Lance claims it is.
It’s too early for me to be sure too. I had the same issue with shaking in the catch cup. This is why I wasn’t convinced either. Perhaps the narrow catch cup causes more clumping?
I've been shaking recently. I haven't noticed anything, to be honest. It's not the smoothest workflow either. I'll give it some time but i'm not impressed thus far.
Try shaking for 15 seconds. I will publish a video soon about my workflow. I don’t release the grinds from a height. It just makes it messy
@@UnderstandingCoffee Will do.
Lance certainly is a market mover. SMH
He certainly is! All kudos to him for discovering this potential game changer.
Bahasa Indo nya ... RIbet 🤣🤣🤣
OR... you could just grind into a small jar, shake with lid on, pour into portafilter and tamp. Total cost: nothing. These stupid gadgets are just out of control...
Of course you can. It just makes it easier to transfer to the portafilter without making a mess and potentially uneven distribution
@@UnderstandingCoffee Looked pretty messy to me... 😂
@@UnderstandingCoffee Anyway, just use a funnel and problem solved
@@jontptit was the first time I used it so it’s not going to be the tidiest. I now use a dosing ring as LH suggested but don’t release the grounds from a height. Works well
@@UnderstandingCoffee Right. They need to make a variety of these, based upon grind size and roast level. I doubt it's a good idea to use the same shaker for dark and light roasts, or coarse and fine grinds - the distribution must be completely different 😂🤣
Very likely bitter and overextracted
How did you reach this conclusion? It’s difficult to extract light-medium roasts in the first place! Do not use visual cues to determine if the extraction is complete. It is not a reliable method. Extraction time is not reliable either.
just my 2 cent: I think all that "modern stuff" is stupid - scientifically and practically. 1. why shall we the oxygen sensitive coffee powder to more oxygen by a) extending the preparation time an b) exposing it to more oxygen? bside the more complicated procedure all the metrics are very;-)
I think an even extraction certainly helps with flavours which is what we are trying to achieve. The prep time is not that long. Certainly, not long enough for the oxidation process to be relevant I think. Do you have any data regarding the oxidation of coffee?
Dear God stop making, making coffee more difficult than it actually is.
It’s about making coffee consistent and easy!
@@UnderstandingCoffee I do that every day without these ridiculous overpriced and over engineered gadgets, it's coffee not a science experiment 😂
Just only 5 time. No need too much
Shaking time is a variable in itself! The duration of shaking has an impact on extraction. Try it out. 5 times is ok for turbo shot.