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Okay not being a a-hole but… do you have a primary source for the dark wolves. The word a couple of years ago was that the source magazine hosted fanon alongside canon frequently and the dark wolves could be the former.
@@SRTifiableyaknow that brings up a thought that I never had but it makes sense. Yeah track racing *would* have specific types of wheels wouldn't it? That's pretty neat!
I’m doing a death company only army. That means black with red accents and bone chest Aquila, but adding onto that is some darkened metal for weathering scraps (not into edge highlighting specifically so dry brushing to the rescue) as well as accents like weapon barrels. Also extra points for taking a dark red thickening it up to splatter across armor or weapons etc.
In the hh blackbooks there is a mention of possible "traitor space wolves" described as bearing the panoply of the iron hands. The iron hands here implies tanks since they are canonically one of the two heavily mechanized legions. This could easily be the origin of the dark wolves.
I would take that statement to mean they were rolled up into an Iron Hands warband and wore their armor and heraldry having abandoned the Rout. The Dark Wolves have an Armor company but I was under the impression no one knew when or how they got the tanks.
The Blood Wolves are yet another completely separate chapter of chaos space wolves lead by Svane Vulfbad. (Seriously the guy’s last name is “wolf bad” but with a Norwegian accent.) Their color scheme is Bronze, Red, and Cream. Definitely also worth looking up if you’re thinking about gluing pointy bits onto your space wolves.
Actually it's originally bronze red and white. People only recently been interpreted their white color into a creamy bone color. Also they have a verdigris effect
I wish GW would do something like this, the Primarchs (outside of Alpharius) have been so set as either loyalist or traitor since the Horus Heresy that it's a little weird non of them have any inclination to switch sides anymore despite them clearly being able to be influenced to do so. Having another primarch suddenly reappear having switched sides would be terrifying and awesome all at once.
Honestly, if the two of them would pull their heads out of their asses, the Emperor could probably purify Mortarion and turn him back to the Imperium in like a 20 minute conversation
@@christophersmith8848on that point, I think GW likes having 9 on each side so perhaps if they bring back The Khan, he could be turned to chaos as Morty was redeemed. It would make for a more compelling narrative, but we all know they won't. Death guard just got a range refresh in 8th. They would need to bring back like half the Primarchs before they make anyone switch sides.
@@christophersmith8848Mortarion truly hates the emperor. He views the imperium as incredibly misguided, and he despises his loyalist brothers. This is all without the influence of chaos. Mortarion cannot be redeemed.
I would love this theory to be true but I think the biggest hole in it is that the leader of Skyrar's Dark Wolves probably isn't Leman Russ but instead some bloke named Skyrar.
This could, if it ever happened, pair well with the surviving twin of Alpharius/Omegon being secretly a loyalist. Would keep the number of traitor and loyalists even.
@@KhenWolf In lore magnus isn't TTS magnus though so I doubt that. Beside given the modern state of the imperium I think everyone would be upset if Guilliman forgave magnus and his legion of chaos-worshiping warp sorcerers and dust golems.
If Russ became a Daemon Primarch, I'd take uncorrupted clone Fulgrim so it even the odds. Daemon Fulgrim can also stay to spice things up. Lore-wise it also make sense as Daemon Fulgrim is possessed by a daemon and his soul had to go somewhere else.
Now...I know GW would never allow this to happen because it'd piss of too many people...but....I LOVE THIS THEORY! I LOVE THIS THEORY! I LOVE THIS THEORY!
I ain’t too big of a fan of it but I would like it better if they also had a switcheroo with one of the chaos primarchs being cleansed and redeemed (If clonegrim is a real thing I wouldn’t count him considering there’s still fulgrim). If we see a chaos russ I think it would interesting to see what kind of damage control GW would do.
@@kenjethao7774 Total pipedream, but holy shit what if they took Russ and gave us a back a redeemed Magnus. The switcheroo between those two would be incredible.
OMG Arthur is getting sponsors now? thats really cool! Arthur will now be drowning in copious amounts of cash Also the idea of demon furry primarch makes me happy : 3
I feel like even if Leeman did fall to Chaos he'd just fight other Chaos factions endlessly, empowered by Khorn as a weapon to turn against the other gods whenever one of them steps on his territory.
I don't think Khorne would get Russ. The mages of Fenris are implied to have a connection to Tzneech, and the wolfen are eerily similar to the flash change of the thousand sons. Major kill did a video that touched on it.
@@soffrenThat's fair, I can definitely see that being the case too, though it does feel odd comparing the Space Wolves' culture, tactics, and ideals with Tzeentch's followers. I can't say I'm opposed to the idea but it doesn't feel like the most likely outcome to me. I'll definitely have to check our Majorkill's video though, that sounds like a fun watch
But we already know what happened to the lost great company that accompanied Russ, they reappeared in the Armageddon campaign. As loyalists. Even if they were defectors from a fallen Russ they would have mentioned that
if Leman fell to chaos he should be Tzeench, first reason is it would be very funny having both demon Leman and Magnus together, and second reason is that Space Wolves do so much magic like no one else besides the post fall Thousand Sons, runic magic, shamentism everywhere, communion with spirits, and ontop they are also legion about change and mutation
I don't think Leman has fallen to chaos for two reasons Firstly, GW doesn't want to piss off the most "Special" members of the marine fans Secondly, if Leman were corrupted, we'd know, since he was one of the least subtle of his brothers
Hm, well I certainly enjoy the idea of loyalist legions turning to Chaos once divided into smaller chapters and whilst I can see the inspiration for Russ turning to Chaos - I don't really think it makes sense for his character. Yes, Russ has always been the kind of Primarch to act first and ask questions later however, Russ is by far one of the most dedicated Primarchs to his father and despite the "Mindless bloodthirsty Viking" stereotype Russ has been placed in, people often forget that Russ is very wise. Take the Night of The Wolf for example, Russ could've absolutely killed Angron and brought the World Eaters as a whole to justice before the Emperor but instead Russ chose to attempt to teach Angron a valuable lesson about leadership. It didn't work, of course but the fact still stands. I don't think Russ would ever turn to Chaos based on all that and furthermore I don't think he'd allow any of his chapters to fall to Chaos freely. While you could make the argument that if Horus fell to Chaos, anyone could fall to Chaos however, Horus was corrupted by Chaos undivided which doesn't seem to be a factor in the modern day setting. I mean, Chaos is very much it's own enemy with all four of the Chaos gods wanting to get a leg up on the others. For Russ to turn to Chaos would mean Chaos agreeing to team up again which will not happen again because Chaos is completely sustainable as it is currently. Now, could that all change? Possible, depending on if Vashtor or Be'lakor reach their goals in becoming Chaos gods or if something insane happened like the Tyranid Hive Mind ascending to become a Chaos god however, none of those seem very likely currently.
Nah, Leman's been working with the last loyalist fragment of Magnus, Kaldor Driego, and some loyal dudes he found to free Isha from Nurgle. And in the end a Necron is going to beat them to the punch with the gods stealing.
The thing about the whole “Leman and the 13th great company emerge from the warp” thing is that the 13th have been kind of back for like, a while, since the Eye of Terror campaign. Only Leman isn’t.
Yep, totally agree with this and your assessment of GW and GW players. As soon as Primarchs started arriving back on the scene I thought the cool plot twists would be daemon Russ and maybe loyal Fulgrim. By which I mean, they find Fulgrim’s soul in the warp and put him into one of the clones. They could even do daemon Fulgrim vs loyal Fulgrim. However, the Russ thing is more likely to happen and that ain’t gonna happen!
Well made, interesting idea but sweet jesus as a wolf player this would give me depression not vindictive I'd say just depression. Points though because so few successors I assumed you'd do wolf brothers or wolf spear.... bark bark woof
I love how Warhammer can rarely go into interesting directions that would shake up the narrative or dare I say actually advance it. Like some primarchs returning with altered loyalties over 10k years of not being in the spotlight or actual peace among the factions to kick the ass of chaos. Because a lot of very loud members of the community will throw an epic tantrum, and burn minis they spent money on and perhaps spent hours painting,
I agree with your first point, but not the second. Peace between factions means no narrative battles between those factions. Every faction hating the other factions to varying degrees is the canon excuse for why literally any army can fight literally any army.
Speaking of dark/corrupted wolves, there was a lore bit in thousand sons entry for the dornian heresy(perhaps first of the alternate heresies to date) where they chased off some space wolves(khorne-aligned) into a warp rift, and upon peering into it,the librarian in charge was both shocked and felt justified that they chased them into it(being supposedly worse fate than one in store for them). Warp rift - lead into original(canon) war40k universe! A neat tie-in and possible explanation for the dark wolves. Back to canon universe, iirc it was either 4th or 5th edition chaos codex that had huron blackheart seize a space wolves vessel intact, going so far as to even recruit wolves aboard it into service to chaos("wolf of fenris" was the name), should still be among huron's prized possessions in his fleet. While corrupted Russ sounds interesting, it's unlikely (in canon-universe, at least).
What I think would be more interesting would be if Leman only partially fell due to him wanting to fix his mistakes. Hes making a deal with chaos to wanting to put his brother out of his misery and trying to find the noble sards of Magnus. That is entirely motivated out of a sense of guilt and him recognizing his own immaturity during the great crusade and Heresy. Of him wanting to fix his own mistakes. It would make for a certainly compelling and tragic fall. You could even have the noble sard of Magnus and him making up in the end. (About how they both handled things very immaturely). Hugging it out right before the planet they are on gets blown up in the end. I probably need to workshop the idea of some more, but what do you guys think?
even though i dont think this idea would work (the righteous fury of the post-heresy loyalists would get them killed sooner than theyd fall to corruption) i find the idea at least a little intersting. the idea of a darkened imperium, thinking it may have a chance to come back from doom with the revival of two primarchs, hearing the rising psychic howling of the wolves would be a much better end-times scenario than big space bug, or even necron awakening. the idea of the imperial executioner becoming the Imperiums executioner would be a lovely bow on the whole thing... especially if the emperors warp-ghost is the one who's telling him to do it... as a gamble to let the emperors body die so he could be born again. it would also make the inevitable defeat and possible death of this weird heresy that much more tragic. itll never happen, but itd be a nice excercise in the alternate lore that older fluff touched on occasionally
The 13th company was once found in the warp all turned wulfen but all still fighting chaos and in a vaguely organized manner (as organized as a pack of wolves might be) and this is after thousands of years in the warp. Lemab Russ and as a result space wolves as a whole are loyal to a fault. They would rather die than turn to chaos. Which is why i reject any notion of Russ going traitor. That being said there have been few rare cases of space wolves going to chaos but they are usually on an individual basis and not on a large scale. So im trying not to be vindictive or anything i still like the idea and i would think its pretty cool to see some kitbashed chaos space wolves. I just dpnt think it would make sense lore-wise to see a whole army of that
Space Wolves can be corrupted. It has happened a few times but it’s incredibly rare for them too. The Blood Wolves are an example of this. They fell because they felt the Emperor wasn’t giving them enough credit for what they were doing but a certain blood god did. So they fell to Khorn. Do I think this could happen to Leman? Most likely not. He’s one of the most loyal primarchs and felt like he was chaos’s pawn during the entire Horus Heresy. So I think he would have a special hate for chaos. I mean sure with the amount of distain he has right now for chaos he may be feeding Khorn right now. Though I don’t think Leman would fall to Khorn.
I like this theory. Especially with chaos "warping" the perception of the hunt to be against those who knew of the Wolves, especially against the Wolves themselves who would know their Primarch best and give Bjorn a significant character spotlight to make him known for more than Dreadnought depression in the modern setting. .. Maybe even have he and Guilliman have an argument about how to best deal with the new traitor Primarch and have Guilliman pass along a cheesy, "you're so much like your father." Narrative paths open from there, but GW is afraid of narrative risks. Speaking of, I know it might not seem like a big deal for the Dreadnought roster to be wiped in 10th edition for competitive rules, but they are the competitive rules. If people wanted to play with narrative rules, then they'd be better off playing Horus Heresy, where Dreadnought rules reflect the narrative in that the point cost of 2 basic melee arm contemptors can get you 3 Casta Ferrums with twin blast weapons. Not trying to be a jerk, just feels like the rug being pulled after selling the kits in plastic before removing them from 10th to counter the "older is better" theme of humanity, so I understand why people are upset.
glad I found this channel a few days ago. I like the idea that there were probably lots of loyalist survivors from the traitor legions, and rather than purging them (as many undoubtedly did and would still want to do), they gave them new names, new identities, and passed them off as loyalist successors to legions they definitely were not from. This "Creative" filing probably is also how the carmine blades got misfiled as ultramarines.
Mr. Bones, for someone who hates Space Wolves so much you surely bring up so many videos regarding them. And I couldn´t be happier, please keep them coming.
I kinda hope Russ comes back old, with one eye, welding the spear big E gave him and as a psycher (not ruin priest) having spent time in the well of eternity. Go full on Odin and have him apologise to Magnus in their next clash.
I love your theory if the fulgrim clone escapes and redeems the emperors children or Morty turns on Chaos or the Iron Warriors and Perty switch sides or the Alpha legion come out full loyalist ...
You know, everyone seems to forget that the 13th Great Company aren't the only "Lost Great Company" they're just known as The Lost Great Company. Skylrar's lot are most likely just an old Great Company that got lost, probably in the Heresy
Oh man the LION WOLF dynamic would be so flipped on its head if this happened! Imagine on top of this we delay Daemon Fulgrim and instead we get Clone Fulgrim to give him more characterisation before that climactic face off.
I honestly would love this. I really think it would be interesting if one returning loyalist Primarch went traitor and one returning traitor Primarch redeems himself and becomes loyalist again.
I'm a die hard loyalist space wolf! And I love this! But only if Leman Russ eventually turns away from chaos. Maybe the grief of killing Logan Grimnar turns him back or somehow Lion El'Johnson reforms him idk. As long as Russ doesn't stay dark I love it.
Right now Im buying random spacewolves models from the latest batches,,,, but Im decorating them with skulls and paint them in dark, blackblue colors with red,,, trickiest part now is to find pieces of the chaos star to decorate my chaotic wolf freaks with :)
Demon evil Russ would be great. But GW would never do that, sadly, because that's actually a cool shake up and Space Wolf players would poop on the carpet
I think it'd make more sense for the black wolves to be part of russ' host that entered the eye of terror But left or lost Russ (maybe he was teleported away or died) and are now directionless, but can't return to the legion because of the shame or splintered from the main force due to warp exposure
If skyrars dark wolves ever become an actual part of anything important ever, they first need a color scheme makeover. Also id imagine the space wolves were still grey when Russ dove into the Eye. So I find it unlikely that hed come back out sporting a variation on the modern chapter colors
The one main way I can see it would be if GW acknowledged the chaos god that they refused to acknowledge. I can see leman Russ falling to malal, with his super hatred of chaos. It would also be a good reason why they haven't made an appearance in the other black crusades.
Personally I'd LOVE to see Russ the Executioner come back as a chaos tainted Primarch. The Space Wolves are one of my favorite factions, but seeing them deal with an evil, bloodthirsty Leman Russ would be amazing.
It's an interesting idea, in a Dornian heresy kind of way, but I don't see Russ ever turning Traitor or being corrupted, if only because he would never fall to Chaos like Magnus did. He's always gotta be on that "I'm better than you nerd" side of the argument.
Space wolves main here since 2ed. I've always felt the Vlka Fenrika are, unbeknownst to them, servants of Khorne, almost as if the big E put some Khorne substance in the mix willingly. It's not hard to think of this when you paint/play wulfen and blood claws and wolves... And then there's the whole Axe of Morkai shebang. Of course they also are bred from dogs so they will of course be obedient to their foster parents which in this case is the imperium. I think Leman Russ going over to chaos would be freaking amazing but impossible GWwise. Or at least somewhat tainted by chaos and the wulfen curse... But like just barely holding on because of the Dionysian Spear, and like the second he loses it he loses his sh8
As improbable as it is, that was a fun theory. Even the G-Man was so disgusted by what the Imperium became, it wouldn't be too outlandish to think that maybe, just maybe. Another loyalist primarch would say "fuck that, let it burn" to just, hard reset and start over.
my assumption with SKyrar's Dark Wolves is that they're either the wolf brothers, or, more likely, a great company that turned shortly after The Heresy, probably when Robute started yelling about his way being the only way
How fucked up would it be if one of the traitor Primarchs turned loyalist (something crazy like Perturabo) which has to be balanced out by Russ or one of the still missing Primarchs going bad? Unlikely, yes...but it would still be pretty wild.
I like the different take on the Dark Wolves. The Wulfen are also claimed to be remnants of that lost company, so I like the idea that it might be Russ and his crew instead
Hey it could happen but not totatlly like making a clone of lemon russ mixed with a demon of khorne it would work like how you said it and we could have like a civil war between the renegade loyal space wolf and the traitor space wolf and the other loyal and traitor space marines it could be like the fallen
Leman Russ could come back not as traitor but as renegade, even if touched by Chaos they could embody the whole idea of Chaos fighting Chaos and sometimes helping the human population because they are cattle and not prey. Chaos but not as nuts.
space wolves. interesting. Chaos space wolves... didnt know, doable, but that paint scheme... ugh... chaos priarch theory ... yes. im down. i like it. do eet!!
It was lost and forgotten as it was meant to be. But Arthur had to poke it. To what end? Your right; it could never happen, But lots of things will not happen. Space wolves/dogs are very loyal that why you ask there Primark to be your executioner. Do ya see Arthur do ya get it now? Its real simple. This one was to simple. The Sherwood guy want all the money and have wanted it for a long time. I love 'da schtick reminds me of a minor talent on WLW
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Okay not being a a-hole but… do you have a primary source for the dark wolves. The word a couple of years ago was that the source magazine hosted fanon alongside canon frequently and the dark wolves could be the former.
like it
but
they
need
more lore
our boy got them sponsors now 🥲
You've convinced me to make powder blue, black, and neon red my next color scheme.
Sounds like my car + autocross wheels 🤣 Because track day ridiculousness.
And that sounds awesome!
@@SRTifiableyaknow that brings up a thought that I never had but it makes sense.
Yeah track racing *would* have specific types of wheels wouldn't it? That's pretty neat!
I’m doing a death company only army. That means black with red accents and bone chest Aquila, but adding onto that is some darkened metal for weathering scraps (not into edge highlighting specifically so dry brushing to the rescue) as well as accents like weapon barrels. Also extra points for taking a dark red thickening it up to splatter across armor or weapons etc.
In the hh blackbooks there is a mention of possible "traitor space wolves" described as bearing the panoply of the iron hands. The iron hands here implies tanks since they are canonically one of the two heavily mechanized legions. This could easily be the origin of the dark wolves.
I would take that statement to mean they were rolled up into an Iron Hands warband and wore their armor and heraldry having abandoned the Rout. The Dark Wolves have an Armor company but I was under the impression no one knew when or how they got the tanks.
The Blood Wolves are yet another completely separate chapter of chaos space wolves lead by Svane Vulfbad. (Seriously the guy’s last name is “wolf bad” but with a Norwegian accent.) Their color scheme is Bronze, Red, and Cream. Definitely also worth looking up if you’re thinking about gluing pointy bits onto your space wolves.
Actually it's originally bronze red and white. People only recently been interpreted their white color into a creamy bone color. Also they have a verdigris effect
And there are other Space Wolves working with the Red Corsairs.
Isn't swan bad wolf dead
@@queekheadtaker7327 he is yeah but his warband is still active
I wish GW would do something like this, the Primarchs (outside of Alpharius) have been so set as either loyalist or traitor since the Horus Heresy that it's a little weird non of them have any inclination to switch sides anymore despite them clearly being able to be influenced to do so.
Having another primarch suddenly reappear having switched sides would be terrifying and awesome all at once.
Honestly, if the two of them would pull their heads out of their asses, the Emperor could probably purify Mortarion and turn him back to the Imperium in like a 20 minute conversation
@@christophersmith8848on that point, I think GW likes having 9 on each side so perhaps if they bring back The Khan, he could be turned to chaos as Morty was redeemed.
It would make for a more compelling narrative, but we all know they won't. Death guard just got a range refresh in 8th.
They would need to bring back like half the Primarchs before they make anyone switch sides.
What makes Fulgrim so interesting in my opinion is practically that fact. There IS Fulgrim that wants to switch sides, without the influence
@@christophersmith8848Mortarion truly hates the emperor. He views the imperium as incredibly misguided, and he despises his loyalist brothers. This is all without the influence of chaos. Mortarion cannot be redeemed.
Certainly seems like it would be more interesting if perhaps a chaos primarch could be redeemed or a loyalist primarch tempted to turn.
I would love this theory to be true but I think the biggest hole in it is that the leader of Skyrar's Dark Wolves probably isn't Leman Russ but instead some bloke named Skyrar.
Could be his new daemon name
@@CyrodiilComeI don't think that's the case as none of the other deamon primarchs have gone through a name change.
@@sirmemealot1839 well they do. They have names that can be used to bind them to the warp. Like Kaldor used on Morty
Maybe Skyrar's warband is the vanguard of Leman's ruinous host
This could, if it ever happened, pair well with the surviving twin of Alpharius/Omegon being secretly a loyalist. Would keep the number of traitor and loyalists even.
Or Magnus deciding to join the imperium again.
Or the clone fulgrim joining imperium (if he breaks out of trazyn’s museum).
@@KhenWolf In lore magnus isn't TTS magnus though so I doubt that. Beside given the modern state of the imperium I think everyone would be upset if Guilliman forgave magnus and his legion of chaos-worshiping warp sorcerers and dust golems.
I am alpharius and I am a loyalist. Dw about the dorn situation
If Russ became a Daemon Primarch, I'd take uncorrupted clone Fulgrim so it even the odds. Daemon Fulgrim can also stay to spice things up. Lore-wise it also make sense as Daemon Fulgrim is possessed by a daemon and his soul had to go somewhere else.
I can understand the theory but damn I'll be mad if he goes full chaos
Now...I know GW would never allow this to happen because it'd piss of too many people...but....I LOVE THIS THEORY! I LOVE THIS THEORY! I LOVE THIS THEORY!
I hope they just do it because this is such a cool fucking theory
I ain’t too big of a fan of it but I would like it better if they also had a switcheroo with one of the chaos primarchs being cleansed and redeemed (If clonegrim is a real thing I wouldn’t count him considering there’s still fulgrim). If we see a chaos russ I think it would interesting to see what kind of damage control GW would do.
@@kenjethao7774 Total pipedream, but holy shit what if they took Russ and gave us a back a redeemed Magnus. The switcheroo between those two would be incredible.
@@kenjethao7774 Fulgrim or Magnus getting redemption would be so nice
for the blood angel one please cover the flesh tearers.
surprisingly enough, they aren't traitors™
OMG Arthur is getting sponsors now? thats really cool! Arthur will now be drowning in copious amounts of cash
Also the idea of demon furry primarch makes me happy : 3
I feel like even if Leeman did fall to Chaos he'd just fight other Chaos factions endlessly, empowered by Khorn as a weapon to turn against the other gods whenever one of them steps on his territory.
I don't think Khorne would get Russ. The mages of Fenris are implied to have a connection to Tzneech, and the wolfen are eerily similar to the flash change of the thousand sons.
Major kill did a video that touched on it.
@@soffrenThat's fair, I can definitely see that being the case too, though it does feel odd comparing the Space Wolves' culture, tactics, and ideals with Tzeentch's followers. I can't say I'm opposed to the idea but it doesn't feel like the most likely outcome to me. I'll definitely have to check our Majorkill's video though, that sounds like a fun watch
But we already know what happened to the lost great company that accompanied Russ, they reappeared in the Armageddon campaign. As loyalists. Even if they were defectors from a fallen Russ they would have mentioned that
Silly Arthur,
Everyone knows Leman has been turned into a pug by Tzeentch; as it should be.
if Leman fell to chaos he should be Tzeench, first reason is it would be very funny having both demon Leman and Magnus together, and second reason is that Space Wolves do so much magic like no one else besides the post fall Thousand Sons, runic magic, shamentism everywhere, communion with spirits, and ontop they are also legion about change and mutation
I don't think Leman has fallen to chaos for two reasons
Firstly, GW doesn't want to piss off the most "Special" members of the marine fans
Secondly, if Leman were corrupted, we'd know, since he was one of the least subtle of his brothers
Oh no the wolf wolves of the wolfy lord are going to wolf us and feed us to their war wolves
(I love the schizophrenic theories love em)
If your 40k theory isn't full schitzo, I don't want it!
"Stabbed him with a poop knife" has been added to my vocabulary...
The Poop Knive isn't just some 2014 Reddit meme. It's also in 40k lore.
Hm, well I certainly enjoy the idea of loyalist legions turning to Chaos once divided into smaller chapters and whilst I can see the inspiration for Russ turning to Chaos - I don't really think it makes sense for his character. Yes, Russ has always been the kind of Primarch to act first and ask questions later however, Russ is by far one of the most dedicated Primarchs to his father and despite the "Mindless bloodthirsty Viking" stereotype Russ has been placed in, people often forget that Russ is very wise. Take the Night of The Wolf for example, Russ could've absolutely killed Angron and brought the World Eaters as a whole to justice before the Emperor but instead Russ chose to attempt to teach Angron a valuable lesson about leadership. It didn't work, of course but the fact still stands. I don't think Russ would ever turn to Chaos based on all that and furthermore I don't think he'd allow any of his chapters to fall to Chaos freely. While you could make the argument that if Horus fell to Chaos, anyone could fall to Chaos however, Horus was corrupted by Chaos undivided which doesn't seem to be a factor in the modern day setting. I mean, Chaos is very much it's own enemy with all four of the Chaos gods wanting to get a leg up on the others. For Russ to turn to Chaos would mean Chaos agreeing to team up again which will not happen again because Chaos is completely sustainable as it is currently. Now, could that all change? Possible, depending on if Vashtor or Be'lakor reach their goals in becoming Chaos gods or if something insane happened like the Tyranid Hive Mind ascending to become a Chaos god however, none of those seem very likely currently.
Nah, Leman's been working with the last loyalist fragment of Magnus, Kaldor Driego, and some loyal dudes he found to free Isha from Nurgle. And in the end a Necron is going to beat them to the punch with the gods stealing.
And it's gonna be Tryzan because having an Eldar god would make his museum all the more bad ass.
The thing about the whole “Leman and the 13th great company emerge from the warp” thing is that the 13th have been kind of back for like, a while, since the Eye of Terror campaign. Only Leman isn’t.
Yep, totally agree with this and your assessment of GW and GW players. As soon as Primarchs started arriving back on the scene I thought the cool plot twists would be daemon Russ and maybe loyal Fulgrim. By which I mean, they find Fulgrim’s soul in the warp and put him into one of the clones. They could even do daemon Fulgrim vs loyal Fulgrim. However, the Russ thing is more likely to happen and that ain’t gonna happen!
Well made, interesting idea but sweet jesus as a wolf player this would give me depression not vindictive I'd say just depression. Points though because so few successors I assumed you'd do wolf brothers or wolf spear.... bark bark woof
dun worry they'll never do it, it's too neat and subversive.
Or Jubilation and ecstasy in the freedom of Chaos
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I love how Warhammer can rarely go into interesting directions that would shake up the narrative or dare I say actually advance it. Like some primarchs returning with altered loyalties over 10k years of not being in the spotlight or actual peace among the factions to kick the ass of chaos.
Because a lot of very loud members of the community will throw an epic tantrum, and burn minis they spent money on and perhaps spent hours painting,
I agree with your first point, but not the second. Peace between factions means no narrative battles between those factions. Every faction hating the other factions to varying degrees is the canon excuse for why literally any army can fight literally any army.
@@Dap1ssmonk Yes and narratively it's slowly becoming dumber and dumber at least to me.
@@wythe2445 if it’s between narrative or gameplay, I’ll take the game.
Speaking of dark/corrupted wolves, there was a lore bit in thousand sons entry for the dornian heresy(perhaps first of the alternate heresies to date) where they chased off some space wolves(khorne-aligned) into a warp rift, and upon peering into it,the librarian in charge was both shocked and felt justified that they chased them into it(being supposedly worse fate than one in store for them). Warp rift - lead into original(canon) war40k universe! A neat tie-in and possible explanation for the dark wolves.
Back to canon universe, iirc it was either 4th or 5th edition chaos codex that had huron blackheart seize a space wolves vessel intact, going so far as to even recruit wolves aboard it into service to chaos("wolf of fenris" was the name), should still be among huron's prized possessions in his fleet.
While corrupted Russ sounds interesting, it's unlikely (in canon-universe, at least).
What I think would be more interesting would be if Leman only partially fell due to him wanting to fix his mistakes.
Hes making a deal with chaos to wanting to put his brother out of his misery and trying to find the noble sards of Magnus.
That is entirely motivated out of a sense of guilt and him recognizing his own immaturity during the great crusade and Heresy. Of him wanting to fix his own mistakes.
It would make for a certainly compelling and tragic fall.
You could even have the noble sard of Magnus and him making up in the end. (About how they both handled things very immaturely). Hugging it out right before the planet they are on gets blown up in the end.
I probably need to workshop the idea of some more, but what do you guys think?
even though i dont think this idea would work (the righteous fury of the post-heresy loyalists would get them killed sooner than theyd fall to corruption) i find the idea at least a little intersting.
the idea of a darkened imperium, thinking it may have a chance to come back from doom with the revival of two primarchs, hearing the rising psychic howling of the wolves would be a much better end-times scenario than big space bug, or even necron awakening.
the idea of the imperial executioner becoming the Imperiums executioner would be a lovely bow on the whole thing... especially if the emperors warp-ghost is the one who's telling him to do it... as a gamble to let the emperors body die so he could be born again. it would also make the inevitable defeat and possible death of this weird heresy that much more tragic.
itll never happen, but itd be a nice excercise in the alternate lore that older fluff touched on occasionally
The 13th company was once found in the warp all turned wulfen but all still fighting chaos and in a vaguely organized manner (as organized as a pack of wolves might be) and this is after thousands of years in the warp. Lemab Russ and as a result space wolves as a whole are loyal to a fault. They would rather die than turn to chaos. Which is why i reject any notion of Russ going traitor. That being said there have been few rare cases of space wolves going to chaos but they are usually on an individual basis and not on a large scale. So im trying not to be vindictive or anything i still like the idea and i would think its pretty cool to see some kitbashed chaos space wolves. I just dpnt think it would make sense lore-wise to see a whole army of that
Wasn't there a single Space Wolf that went to Khorne once? Pretty sure he got killed by Ragnar Blackmane.
All legions got cut into half during Horus Heresy, equally divided to loyalist and chaos.
Space Wolves can be corrupted. It has happened a few times but it’s incredibly rare for them too. The Blood Wolves are an example of this. They fell because they felt the Emperor wasn’t giving them enough credit for what they were doing but a certain blood god did. So they fell to Khorn. Do I think this could happen to Leman? Most likely not. He’s one of the most loyal primarchs and felt like he was chaos’s pawn during the entire Horus Heresy. So I think he would have a special hate for chaos. I mean sure with the amount of distain he has right now for chaos he may be feeding Khorn right now. Though I don’t think Leman would fall to Khorn.
@@alannatherson7721 yea thats who i was thinking of but i couldnt remember his name
@@jirojhasuo2ndgrandcompany745 no that didnt happen how your thinking of it
I like this theory. Especially with chaos "warping" the perception of the hunt to be against those who knew of the Wolves, especially against the Wolves themselves who would know their Primarch best and give Bjorn a significant character spotlight to make him known for more than Dreadnought depression in the modern setting.
.. Maybe even have he and Guilliman have an argument about how to best deal with the new traitor Primarch and have Guilliman pass along a cheesy, "you're so much like your father." Narrative paths open from there, but GW is afraid of narrative risks.
Speaking of, I know it might not seem like a big deal for the Dreadnought roster to be wiped in 10th edition for competitive rules, but they are the competitive rules. If people wanted to play with narrative rules, then they'd be better off playing Horus Heresy, where Dreadnought rules reflect the narrative in that the point cost of 2 basic melee arm contemptors can get you 3 Casta Ferrums with twin blast weapons. Not trying to be a jerk, just feels like the rug being pulled after selling the kits in plastic before removing them from 10th to counter the "older is better" theme of humanity, so I understand why people are upset.
I thought they were what became of the Wolf Brothers, the only successor chapter of the Space Wolves before the Ultima Founding
glad I found this channel a few days ago. I like the idea that there were probably lots of loyalist survivors from the traitor legions, and rather than purging them (as many undoubtedly did and would still want to do), they gave them new names, new identities, and passed them off as loyalist successors to legions they definitely were not from. This "Creative" filing probably is also how the carmine blades got misfiled as ultramarines.
Mr. Bones, for someone who hates Space Wolves so much you surely bring up so many videos regarding them. And I couldn´t be happier, please keep them coming.
That theory about Russ is simply amazing. Really wish GW would take this approach.
Man i always love your videos, everytime i see a new one it makes my day
Im still on that "Russ goes full werewolf and turns into a Demon of Order" train
Gratz on the sponsorship!
Show pictures of old era dark angels side by the fallen. Corporate wants you to tell the difference.
I kinda hope Russ comes back old, with one eye, welding the spear big E gave him and as a psycher (not ruin priest) having spent time in the well of eternity. Go full on Odin and have him apologise to Magnus in their next clash.
I love your theory if the fulgrim clone escapes and redeems the emperors children or Morty turns on Chaos or the Iron Warriors and Perty switch sides or the Alpha legion come out full loyalist ...
You know, everyone seems to forget that the 13th Great Company aren't the only "Lost Great Company" they're just known as The Lost Great Company. Skylrar's lot are most likely just an old Great Company that got lost, probably in the Heresy
Oh man the LION WOLF dynamic would be so flipped on its head if this happened!
Imagine on top of this we delay Daemon Fulgrim and instead we get Clone Fulgrim to give him more characterisation before that climactic face off.
I would love to see the Crimson Fists when you do the 7th legion! They were the original 40k poster boys!
For the last decade or so since I first learned of the Dark Wolves I've always assumed they were black, red, and silver.
My boy is moving up in the world got a sponsor and everything
My brother has kitbashed these guys. I Kitbashed the Pox vectors and we do cool chaos vs chaos battles. It is glorious
I like this idea. In return they should get either loyalist Fulgrim or maybe a redeemed Magnus.
Space Wolves have strong resistance to chaos corruption
I honestly would love this. I really think it would be interesting if one returning loyalist Primarch went traitor and one returning traitor Primarch redeems himself and becomes loyalist again.
This idea sounds like Werewolves, But Up To Eleven - I love it. Sounds like chaos werewolves would be terrifying!
glad you covered these crazy wolfies
Next big event, Burning of Prospero 2: electric Boogaloo. Fallen Leman Rus v. Redeemed Magnus
Powder blue feels more like an attempt at printing a silver/steel color to me, now that's a bit more palatable
I'm a die hard loyalist space wolf! And I love this! But only if Leman Russ eventually turns away from chaos. Maybe the grief of killing Logan Grimnar turns him back or somehow Lion El'Johnson reforms him idk. As long as Russ doesn't stay dark I love it.
Right now Im buying random spacewolves models from the latest batches,,,, but Im decorating them with skulls and paint them in dark, blackblue colors with red,,, trickiest part now is to find pieces of the chaos star to decorate my chaotic wolf freaks with :)
Demon evil Russ would be great. But GW would never do that, sadly, because that's actually a cool shake up and Space Wolf players would poop on the carpet
I think it'd make more sense for the black wolves to be part of russ' host that entered the eye of terror
But left or lost Russ (maybe he was teleported away or died) and are now directionless, but can't return to the legion because of the shame or splintered from the main force due to warp exposure
After this video only thing, i can think of, is how hilarious would be if alpharius and leman swich sides when they return
You mr bones have given the best 40k fanfic idea
Intriguing….
If skyrars dark wolves ever become an actual part of anything important ever, they first need a color scheme makeover.
Also id imagine the space wolves were still grey when Russ dove into the Eye. So I find it unlikely that hed come back out sporting a variation on the modern chapter colors
The one main way I can see it would be if GW acknowledged the chaos god that they refused to acknowledge. I can see leman Russ falling to malal, with his super hatred of chaos. It would also be a good reason why they haven't made an appearance in the other black crusades.
“The chaos K-hole” is a great concept
me when the chapters say the sponsorship is half the video vs me when I actually check and it's not
I want off Mr. Bone's wild ride
Narratively, a Dark Russ would be amazing.
bro hit us with the good ol' bait 'n' switch
Personally I'd LOVE to see Russ the Executioner come back as a chaos tainted Primarch. The Space Wolves are one of my favorite factions, but seeing them deal with an evil, bloodthirsty Leman Russ would be amazing.
You were highkey cooking with this one can't lie
I've never wanted to piss off my friend that plays wolves more than I do now that I've listened to this.
An extra daemon primarch obviously needs an extra loyalist to balance out. Clonegrim, I'm hearing???
You know, so far i don't think a single one of these has actually been a Second Founding Successor to the og Legion
Juicy take - i love it
It's an interesting idea, in a Dornian heresy kind of way, but I don't see Russ ever turning Traitor or being corrupted, if only because he would never fall to Chaos like Magnus did. He's always gotta be on that "I'm better than you nerd" side of the argument.
There’s a Skyler White joke to be made somewhere here.
Happy? sounds like HERESY to me!
For Thematic Symmetry, Russ falling to Chaos would mean a traitor Primarch would have to end up redeemed somehow
Space wolves main here since 2ed.
I've always felt the Vlka Fenrika are, unbeknownst to them, servants of Khorne, almost as if the big E put some Khorne substance in the mix willingly. It's not hard to think of this when you paint/play wulfen and blood claws and wolves... And then there's the whole Axe of Morkai shebang.
Of course they also are bred from dogs so they will of course be obedient to their foster parents which in this case is the imperium.
I think Leman Russ going over to chaos would be freaking amazing but impossible GWwise. Or at least somewhat tainted by chaos and the wulfen curse... But like just barely holding on because of the Dionysian Spear, and like the second he loses it he loses his sh8
As improbable as it is, that was a fun theory. Even the G-Man was so disgusted by what the Imperium became, it wouldn't be too outlandish to think that maybe, just maybe. Another loyalist primarch would say "fuck that, let it burn" to just, hard reset and start over.
Their colourscheme kinda works for me actually
it makes me think of leatherdaddies in black jackets and boots with tight jeans
we should get a video on malice the secret chaos god
He talked about Malice here: ruclips.net/video/IepomMPg4Wc/видео.htmlsi=FxOytsIbSXWgRlXI
The real MVPs are the Angry Marines Chapter
my assumption with SKyrar's Dark Wolves is that they're either the wolf brothers, or, more likely, a great company that turned shortly after The Heresy, probably when Robute started yelling about his way being the only way
Russ has the Wulfen curse
Vulcan lives!
Gotta love the real ass voice cracks 10:02
It's cool theory, but in addition to other problems it has GW likely wouldn't want to make it to close to Dornian Heresy Russ
How fucked up would it be if one of the traitor Primarchs turned loyalist (something crazy like Perturabo) which has to be balanced out by Russ or one of the still missing Primarchs going bad? Unlikely, yes...but it would still be pretty wild.
I hope none of the traitor primarchs turn loyal, neutral maybe, but I can’t see any of them embracing the imperium how it is now.
Traitors get leman, and loyalists get clonegrim, just gotta put both out at the *EXACT SAME TIME* to reduce the "nEw BaD" rage to survivable levels.
I like the different take on the Dark Wolves. The Wulfen are also claimed to be remnants of that lost company, so I like the idea that it might be Russ and his crew instead
Every time you say "Skyrar" quickly it sounds like "Skyrim".
Hey it could happen but not totatlly like making a clone of lemon russ mixed with a demon of khorne it would work like how you said it and we could have like a civil war between the renegade loyal space wolf and the traitor space wolf and the other loyal and traitor space marines it could be like the fallen
Video starts at 2:12.
That was a theory that I had
Leman Russ could come back not as traitor but as renegade, even if touched by Chaos they could embody the whole idea of Chaos fighting Chaos and sometimes helping the human population because they are cattle and not prey.
Chaos but not as nuts.
corrupted Leman Russ would be an immensely good idea especially if combined with a "reedemed" Fulgrim clone
You got a sponsor! Awesome Sir!
space wolves. interesting.
Chaos space wolves... didnt know, doable, but that paint scheme... ugh...
chaos priarch theory ... yes. im down. i like it. do eet!!
It was lost and forgotten as it was meant to be. But Arthur had to poke it. To what end? Your right; it could never happen, But lots of things will not happen. Space wolves/dogs are very loyal that why you ask there Primark to be your executioner. Do ya see Arthur do ya get it now? Its real simple. This one was to simple. The Sherwood guy want all the money and have wanted it for a long time. I love 'da schtick reminds me of a minor talent on WLW