For single handed sailors a momentary switch isn’t very helpful. Instead to control and protect my two bilge pumps, I use a Blue Sea 1522. It has a restricted off circuit breaker with manual override switch and two LED’s for each pump. One LED indicates power available at the float switch, the second LED indicates the pump is running by float switch activation or from the manual override switch. Great video, thanks for taking the time to put it together.
I continue to enjoy your series immensely, especially your teaching style. Suggest that maybe you could add a simple schematic drawing of the circuit, just to familiarize us to the symbols we would encounter along the way. Great job. I am looking forward to the next one!
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I teach a lot of classes on very complicated topics (HVAC design, airflow, thermodynamics, building science, energy efficiency, energy codes, etc.) Not only did I learn about the topic at hand but what a total noob feels like when they are trying to learn something new and clearly the instructor is years and years ahead of them. You did a great job and I will be altering my training approach accordingly.
Another Master Class! Thanks! I can now see how and why the switchboard (behind them, at least) are SO packed with all kinds of wires and such additional (and necessary) elements. You give the appropriate name to each part, with the facts of use, to back each part up. Usually, when watching other channels do some electrical work, or refits, or upgrades, etc, they fail to explain these steps. It generally just goes along the lines of "we connected the wires to the panel" and the perceived "wire mayhem" that ensues is maddening! Thanks again, professor!! 😅
Caught back up! Another phenomenal explanation keeping things clear and concise. My poor overworked brain thanks you! This series couldn't come at a more perfect time as I'm designing and getting ready to install a complete solar system on my boat within the next two months. I'm actually understanding everything you are teaching so far, Thank you!
Awesome Clark. I understood how this circuit worked but didn't think about a light. Now I can stop worrying and always checking to make sure it's working. Thanks for the peace of mind. And the physics that you throw in is always interesting.
That was awesome Clark. Thank you everyone has a little bilge pump so this was very helpful. I appreciate the pictorial so we could see the hot and ground connections through the entire circuit. Well done,
Thanks for your quick reply! I am watching all of your previous videos each one of which is amazingly informative and well presented. We lost about £4k of equipment from a storm and a lightning side hit in our marina in Spain last year. Am now reviewing all of our lightning protection wiring and rewatching your lightning awareness video. Thanks for this. Happy continued cruising.
I'm really enjoying this series! I have a very basic understanding and can get by with small repairs and installs but you have broadened my horizons! I appreciate that you're breaking it down to it's simplest form as well. Thanks for taking the time and effort to make these videos.
Great job Clark! It still amazes me how many boats barely even have ONE working bilge pump and many times its rigged up simply to a manual switch...that works sometimes..lol.
Draw a Y. Place V in top of Y. Place R in bottom left. Place I in bottom right. Then draw a V as an extension to upper right arm of Y. Place a P (power) within the drawn V. This gives P over VxI. Much easier to draw than describe. Try it I think you'll like it. PS: excellent tutorials.
Just found your channel and its great! I see a ton of videos that are going to help me tremendously once spring arrives and I can get to repairs on my new fixer upper.
Welcome back,always enjoy your channel.In regard to Bilge pump install i am not fond of the controls, as i feel the wire size at the control,i.e. from battery to control and control to float switch is too small, especially with a long run, so i use a solenoid, that way there is no voltage drop.
Clarke, love your technical series! Can't wait until you get to multi-source charging systems, trouble shooting and wire tracing. But I understand, foundations before towers.
CLARK... GREAT INFO AND GREAT PRESENTATION... I have a more advanced bilge wiring issue to run past you.... specifically: I am in the process of replacing my Rule Automatic pump model ( 27SA) . It has three wires... a Black ground wire......a Brown automatic wire.( which is always live with 12 volts) and a Brown and White manual wire which only has voltage when the manual test switch is thrown. . The Brown automatic wire sends a short pulse every 2.5 min down to the pump to sense for water. If water is detected it stays on until the water level is reduced...... So before installing it I used a multi meter to test that I have voltage at the brown wire .For some reason the automatic function does not work even though I have voltage.... I tested the pump on a 12 volt car battery charger and it works fine... so the pump is ok. So im wondering what is stopping the auto function from working..... my only guess so far is maybe the wire is not providing enough amperage due to corrosion.... Any suggestions would be appreciated. Ps... I also did a work around where I ran a hot wire from another part of the boat to the pump and it worked fine... so the pump is good but I cant figure out why the existing hot wire could have voltage but will not activate the atutomatic part of the pump... hope u can help Please drop me a line at captainlar7@gmail.com ..... thanks Larry Boyd... I can give you my phone number if you drop me an e mail...
I'm sorry. I don't use that type of pump and I can't answer individual questions here. More of an upper level Patreon thing. I think you should contact the pump manufacturer.
Excel video, as usual. You might emphasize that in any circuit running a motor, that machine can get physically jammed by debris or an adjacent part failing. Pay special attention to fusing on motor circuits!
Great class.....love it. Maybe add GPH.....head pressure.....check valve...hose diameter and flow rates with bends and length......enjoy the heck out of channel.
I was wondering if you were going to explain that electrons actually flow from negative to positive, and you did. I like the trick with lighting the LED from the other end. Keep the good stuff coming.
I've seen others put a timer delay relay in the bilge circuit so if the float switch bounces up when a wave comes or water in the bilge splashes the float switch it doesn't turn on the pump for a few seconds. The circuit has to be active for 10 seconds before the relay kicks in and actives the pump. This can also be used to delay the "off" of the circuit to get the bilge more water free than a float switch could make it.
Great video! Really helpful for a rookie! To that end, if possible could you mention the wire sizes in future videos. It would make it easier to know what the needs/differences are in each circuit.
I actually do that a lot for people. We have a tier on Patreon called "Dream Believers". The perk of that level is phone contact (tends to follow into email and video conference) with us... Loads of people have used that as consulting and designing electrical systems. I like to do it and I always seem to find ways to make a better system for less money then planned. Makes the contribution worth it
Good example and the most serviced circuit on a boat. Breaker panel manufacturers don't protect their led microwires, the led is considered current limiting and in housing. I would just keep the same size wire as protected circuit till at indicator led in a safe box. Can also install a breaker open and power on in addition to the closed circuit.
I like what you did, and it's also nice to start out with a simple circuit with 12 volt lights, series / parallel and talk about voltage drop and current. You may be planning on that in the future as they can get complicated real fast with resistors and math as I'm sure you know. I also think it's a great idea to start out with simple schematic drawing of the circuit, which would help to familiarize viewers with the symbols they will see in real life. I'm trying to say its good to see actual components, but seeing the circuit in a schematic or wiring diagram makes following the components in a circuit that much easier... It give us a road map so we don't get lost, just like driving a car through a city or sailing a boat with charts. Cheers....
Probably it helps, but i recently found out, that our quite deep bilge sump always emptied the bilge pump tube, making the pump fall dry and producing enormous currents. Now we try to fit a valve to inhibit emptying that tube. Your opinion?
Well a one way valve would do it but I'm concerned the bilge pump wouldn't restart unless you allowed it to drain slowly. If you use a valve don't use one with a spring, too much back pressure. There are bronze ones that have to be mounted in a certain orientation that should work well.
Another great video - thank you! What do you think about the strategy of having the float switch also wired directly to the battery (via a fuse) so it'll work if the panel switch is accidentally left off, or there's a defect in the switch? Mine's wired like you described (without the handy momentary option), but I've heard the other theory mentioned.
I feel you need a switch to turn it off. For example if you leak some diesel and the costies are around. Last thing you want is a telltale sheen as your boat pumps. But yes I go right to battery so the only way to turn it off is the one switch. ie Temptress can be dark but still have pumps.
Doing good Work to make marinas a safer place for all :-) I see so many fuses at the appliance side with an unprotected wire running all the length of the boat.
Since you've dropped that bomb of electron flow direction on their heads, go for broke and hit 'em with Hole Theory!😁 Great video on a simple but highly necessary item.
As I said to pontoon Rob: Or holes flow from pos to negative (used in semiconductors). But the only true theory is it's all magic smoke. This can be proven because the circuit doesn't work anymore after the smoke leaks out.
Excellent video, thank you! Finding your videos very helpful. Question: Where you’ve placed the circuit breaker in this video, could an inline fuse holder be used safely there instead? Any advantage/disadvantages to either? Thanks again!
Okay, call me silly safety guy but I'm still wiring the indicator light with heavy enough wire to match the rest of the circuit & breaker or I'm putting a fuse in it (where it's easily accessible near the panel / switch / light). Besides, good excuse to toss up another comment for you. Safe travels in Indy and have a blast you two!
@@EmilyAndClark Saving the dodgy stuff for lake boat racing where a few ounces here and there adds up to pounds which adds up to 0.10ths. Can always swim to shore in my vest, can't say that offshore and when my home is at stake. :)
A few some copies, two main well known brands Atwood and others. If your bilge gets gummy they have a high tendency to stick on or off. More expensive and very reliable are hall sensor types, some have been fail on purchase one I am using atm. There are floatless automatics that use timed run load sensing are fine unless you have boat without solar or dock power as they will kill a battery just on checks.
I've been having good luck with these. I've use one in the dinghy for three years now. Cheap! www.ebay.com/itm/403652370974?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=1dx98jwuteu&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=3Zp5jgUhScS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Hi Clark, This is a great series and much appreciated! I have a question about the position of the fuse. It is positioned on the positive side of the circuit however you said that current runs from the negative side of the battery through the circuit to the positive side of the battery. If this is the current flow then why is the fuse not on the negative side to protect the flow?
It's more likely that a wire that gets loose will find something attached to the negative terminal to touch than the positive terminal. For example the engine block. A circuit is safe if it's broken anywhere. No current flows. Forget the water pipe analogy you are likely using. When broken, wires don't spray electrons all over.
Single POLE. Or Double POLE Fuses are there to protect the wiring, not the device - it's worthwhile thinking in terms of that if you're doing any wiring. (momentary ON switches are designated (ON). Off is shown OFF. Always on shown as ON) The are two types of ON & (ON) switches, ON-OFF-(ON), & OFF-ON-(ON) with the latter used in things like dual function run/kill switches and key switches. There is a sensational chart showing you the amperage over a distance chart. The longer the RETURN distance*, the thicker the wiring needs to be to carry that current (amperage). Otherwise the wire can still overheat and cause a fire. *the RETURN distance is the entire length of the wire from the battery, through the switch, and back the battery..... not so hard to imagine when your wiring a fibreglass hull but often overlooked when you are using a chassis in a car or a metal hull as your earth/return/negative.
Wow, great videos ! We are just new to 12v and I can't seem to make seem to sense of the logic of protecting a wire with a fuse very near to the energy source... when in fact the energy is running through the circuit from the opposite direction (the black) so the fuse is at the end of the run of wire. You showed us how fast the wire burned in the last video. Are you telling us that if you had put a fuse into that circuit (the one that you burned the wire), that the fuse would have really burned out before that wire burned (even though it was down river)?
Yep. As far as up/down river goes, forget it. Change to this. If a wire breaks free is it more likely to find a positive thing to make mischief with or a negative thing? If you didn't think, negative thing, consider your ENGINE room and think again.
If electrons actually flow from the negative terminal to the positive terminal , does that mean the safest place for the circuit breaker is beside the negative terminal and not the positive? Your videos are awesome and you are an excellent teacher.
Nope put it on the positive side. There are a lot more negatively charged big things around like your engine. If a stray positively charged wire touches something like your engine the fuse will protect you
If like you said the electricity travels from negative to positive, why do you put the fuse by the positive terminal? Wouldn't that just protect the short wire from fuse to positive terminal? I apologise if I misunderstood something. Thanks for putting these videos out.
Clark another great video, very educational. I had a situation the other day on a boat where the pump started working in reverse. No wires were changed and to my knowledge nothing (maintenance) was done to the boat. I discovered it by accident. The pump was running due to the float switch being triggered, but no water was being pumped out of the bilge. I thought the impeller was broken so I opened the cover flipped the switch and saw that the impeller was turning in the wrong direction. I flipped the pump wired and it worked correctly then. What could have made the reversal?
Great video series I know the bare basics about electricity so this series has ben extremely helpful. I have what may be a dumb question but how do I go about tracing the wiring back to the electrical panel? For example if I wanted to replace the wiring to my bilge pump.
Pulling wire in a boat sucks. It's a lot of wiggling and pulling to see what moves. There are usually 100 wire ties you need to remove and replace. Having a helper helps a lot. When you find what you are looking for use an old wire to pull the new wires I find sewing the wires together to be much better than taping them.
It's always different. The easiest would be to trace it electrically. Disconnect both ends of the candidate wire. Attach another wire to one end and at the other end of both wires use your meter or a battery and light to see if both ends are truly the same wire. If so great. If not try another of the same color Or if possible just use your meter to verify there is battery power then switch it off or remove the panel end. If it goes dark it's your wire
Good question Sylvio, As long as you don't have a complete circuit there is no current flow so theoretically it wouldn't matter. But since most installations use a "negative ground" for the engine, and therefore the ocean and bilge, there are a lot of stray access to negative. So it's best to protect from the positive side in case of a wire coming loose and finding something charged negative.
Nice to hear someone broach the pos-neg flow issue. Hope you didn't open a can of worms. Any tig welder would understand your thinking. Electrode pos vs. neg. Heat in the work or in the tungsten....balance is in there on the AC welding but similar Theory. Personally, while it's easier to understand neg to pos flow, isn't it more correct to say a circuit is just instantaneously charged?
Or holes flow from pos to negative (used in semiconductors). But the only true theory is it's all magic smoke. This can be proved because the circuit doesn't work anymore after the smoke leaks out.
Would wiring the LED in series between the pump and the battery achieve the same thing, as in it would be powered when and only when the pump is operating?
No. The current would have to pass through both so only the current that the led could pass would be available to the pump. That wouldn't be enough to pump water.
What are your thoughts on similar bilge pumps, but that are automatic with an internal float switch? Seems like they would take up less space and less likely to have a stray wire hold the float switch down.
Clark, back when you did the episode on your Lund Dinghy, you mentioned that you had built your aluminum dinghies at one time. Do you have any plans or photos of how you were building them. Thank you for your time and your videos
Actually I build of plywood and fiberglass and I would recommend it. I used a stich and tape method. Emily built her dinghy with a similar method (stich and glue). I'll send a link to her build videos. No I designed my own but started from plans I bought. We have no plans to publish my plans.
Emily Builds a Sailboat: ruclips.net/p/PLsT7_jPsZM5qrTdxolBxRZAsUfuacyiE1 Different kind of boat but similar construction. The bigger skiff actually has fewer parts.
Well sir I understand all the wiring but it's the switch that I would like to see you wire to the prongs so I have an idea of how to hook up the switch I get the wiring system a toggle switch it has six prongs in the back
A log meter might be interesting to include to track the time or just instances of the pump running in a given period of time. But you might drive yourself crazy given all the variables.
Finally a thorough explanation!
You are welcome
You should look at my other videos. Especially the capable cruiser or electric master class playlists
For someone who’s trying to get prepared before buying a boat in a few years, these videos are perfect. Thank you so much!
Glad these are helping. We have another like this coming next weekend.
Guys keep them coming. I don't know what I don't know 😁
Nice! When 'simple' is explained simply; 'complicated' becomes easier to understand.
Thanks Herbert. Well said. I appreciate it.
For single handed sailors a momentary switch isn’t very helpful. Instead to control and protect my two bilge pumps, I use a Blue Sea 1522. It has a restricted off circuit breaker with manual override switch and two LED’s for each pump. One LED indicates power available at the float switch, the second LED indicates the pump is running by float switch activation or from the manual override switch. Great video, thanks for taking the time to put it together.
Loving this series. Sometimes it's hard to see what's being connected where, but your explanations are really great. Thank you!
You're welcome Daniel
Thanks for this video. For whatever reason my boat didn’t have a direct wire to the negative battery post. I now have a working bilge👍🏼
Glad it helped. You might want to watch a few other of my videos
I continue to enjoy your series immensely, especially your teaching style. Suggest that maybe you could add a simple schematic drawing of the circuit, just to familiarize us to the symbols we would encounter along the way. Great job. I am looking forward to the next one!
Thanks Marky. Good idea
Thanks. Needed a refresher before diving into my bilge.
Your welcome. Hope the project comes out well.
I love how you reply to everyone ! Great video, well spoken.
Thank you
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I teach a lot of classes on very complicated topics (HVAC design, airflow, thermodynamics, building science, energy efficiency, energy codes, etc.) Not only did I learn about the topic at hand but what a total noob feels like when they are trying to learn something new and clearly the instructor is years and years ahead of them. You did a great job and I will be altering my training approach accordingly.
That's so nice of you to say. Thanks
Again, great video and great lab.
Clear & concise. Thanks!
Thanks Karl
Another Master Class! Thanks! I can now see how and why the switchboard (behind them, at least) are SO packed with all kinds of wires and such additional (and necessary) elements. You give the appropriate name to each part, with the facts of use, to back each part up. Usually, when watching other channels do some electrical work, or refits, or upgrades, etc, they fail to explain these steps. It generally just goes along the lines of "we connected the wires to the panel" and the perceived "wire mayhem" that ensues is maddening! Thanks again, professor!! 😅
You're very welcome
Great practical stuff. Thank you
You're going through a nicely thought out sequence of lessons. I'm looking forward to those to come. Good work, and thanks very much!
You're very welcome Steve. Thanks for watching.
Great explanation love your series
Thanks
Thanks Clark. I can't help but think about how much time you spent setting this up for us. Very much appreciated. Great presentation!
Honestly I just kinda decide what to say and wing it. I simply can't read a script, I get all tongue tied.
Thank you Dan
Caught back up! Another phenomenal explanation keeping things clear and concise. My poor overworked brain thanks you! This series couldn't come at a more perfect time as I'm designing and getting ready to install a complete solar system on my boat within the next two months. I'm actually understanding everything you are teaching so far, Thank you!
I hope I stay ahead of your needs.
I'm actually installing a solar charging system in an RV this week myself.
Glad it's helping
Good explanation, particularly like the led add on....,thanks
Awesome Clark. I understood how this circuit worked but didn't think about a light. Now I can stop worrying and always checking to make sure it's working. Thanks for the peace of mind. And the physics that you throw in is always interesting.
Happy to hear that Luke
Great Video. I am learning so much! Thank you
Glad you are enjoying the channel.
Please consider sharing links with friends
That was awesome Clark. Thank you everyone has a little bilge pump so this was very helpful. I appreciate the pictorial so we could see the hot and ground connections through the entire circuit. Well done,
Thanks Craig
Fantastically clear, concise and instructive. Thank you!!
Glad you liked it.
You might like our other videos as well and please consider sharing links with friends
Thanks for your quick reply! I am watching all of your previous videos each one of which is amazingly informative and well presented. We lost about £4k of equipment from a storm and a lightning side hit in our marina in Spain last year. Am now reviewing all of our lightning protection wiring and rewatching your lightning awareness video. Thanks for this. Happy continued cruising.
Sorry to hear that
I'm really enjoying this series! I have a very basic understanding and can get by with small repairs and installs but you have broadened my horizons! I appreciate that you're breaking it down to it's simplest form as well. Thanks for taking the time and effort to make these videos.
You're very welcome, John. Two new ones in this series coming out next.
Thank you! I enjoyed your video.
You're very welcome
Excellent Clark, you are a Master Instructor
Thank you Michael
IT’s always fun to watch & learn, thank you
You're very welcome Dennis
Thank you so much for the clarification. Super.
Glad it helped you
Nice and clearly explained. Thank you.
Thank you. VERY good video.
Many thanks for posting, just about to install a new pump 🙏⛵️
Great job Clark! It still amazes me how many boats barely even have ONE working bilge pump and many times its rigged up simply to a manual switch...that works sometimes..lol.
Can't have that!
It’s late where I am Clark but since I’ve had a couple of boats sink I thought I’d better watch this! Lol
Yes it's an important little device.
Excellent video
Thanks
Excellent presentation- very well explained !
Thank you Matti
Draw a Y. Place V in top of Y. Place R in bottom left. Place I in bottom right. Then draw a V as an extension to upper right arm of Y. Place a P (power) within the drawn V. This gives P over VxI. Much easier to draw than describe. Try it I think you'll like it. PS: excellent tutorials.
Just found your channel and its great! I see a ton of videos that are going to help me tremendously once spring arrives and I can get to repairs on my new fixer upper.
Glad to hear that Jason
Clearly explained. Well done.
Thank you
Great video!! Perfectly explained, simple and great visuals!!
Even I understood it! 😂👍🏻
Thank you
Thanks Clark! This was very interesting! Off to retire my bilge pumps - because after watching this, they aren’t right!
You're very welcome Thomas
Clark, no need to worry about the fuse or the wire on the LED circuit. An LED draws typically between 10-20 mA, that wire will be perfectly fine! :)
Awesome great work threw really like the led I don’t have that thanks👍👍
Thanks
Thanks mate, great stuff
Your welcome Adam
Very engaging!
Thanks Clark, very interesting and useful. 🙂
Great explanation---thanks!
Welcome back,always enjoy your channel.In regard to Bilge pump install i am not fond of the controls, as i feel the wire size at the control,i.e. from battery to control and control to float switch is too small, especially with a long run, so i use a solenoid, that way there is no voltage drop.
Clarke, love your technical series! Can't wait until you get to multi-source charging systems, trouble shooting and wire tracing. But I understand, foundations before towers.
Yep.
And we have to talk about meters first at the very least.
Great video!
Thanks
Great video.
Thanks
CLARK... GREAT INFO AND GREAT PRESENTATION... I have a more advanced bilge wiring issue to run past you.... specifically:
I am in the process of replacing my Rule Automatic pump model ( 27SA) . It has three wires... a Black ground wire......a Brown automatic wire.( which is always live with 12 volts) and a Brown and White manual wire which only has voltage when the manual test switch is thrown. . The Brown automatic wire sends a short pulse every 2.5 min down to the pump to sense for water. If water is detected it stays on until the water level is reduced...... So before installing it I used a multi meter to test that I have voltage at the brown wire
.For some reason the automatic function does not work even though I have voltage.... I tested the pump on a 12 volt car battery charger and it works fine... so the pump is ok. So im wondering what is stopping the auto function from working..... my only guess so far is maybe the wire is not providing enough amperage due to corrosion.... Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Ps... I also did a work around where I ran a hot wire from another part of the boat to the pump and it worked fine... so the pump is good but I cant figure out why the existing hot wire could have voltage but will not activate the atutomatic part of the pump... hope u can help
Please drop me a line at captainlar7@gmail.com ..... thanks Larry Boyd... I can give you my phone number if you drop me an e mail...
I'm sorry. I don't use that type of pump and I can't answer individual questions here. More of an upper level Patreon thing.
I think you should contact the pump manufacturer.
Excel video, as usual. You might emphasize that in any circuit running a motor, that machine can get physically jammed by debris or an adjacent part failing. Pay special attention to fusing on motor circuits!
Yes. Glad you mentioned it
Great class.....love it. Maybe add GPH.....head pressure.....check valve...hose diameter and flow rates with bends and length......enjoy the heck out of channel.
Important stuff but this was more of an electrical lesson.
Thanks
Thank you
You're welcome
Nice job Clark. Say hi to Emily.
Thanks Frank,
Just did.
I was wondering if you were going to explain that electrons actually flow from negative to positive, and you did. I like the trick with lighting the LED from the other end. Keep the good stuff coming.
Now I want to play D&D! Great advice.
Strange you should say that. We are at GenCon now. Are you here?
@@EmilyAndClark Haha. Sorry. I know it was vague. It was the paper you used. Instantly went to old school D&D in my head. Have fun at GenCon!!!
very helpful
Thanks Brian. Hope you like the rest of the series
I've seen others put a timer delay relay in the bilge circuit so if the float switch bounces up when a wave comes or water in the bilge splashes the float switch it doesn't turn on the pump for a few seconds. The circuit has to be active for 10 seconds before the relay kicks in and actives the pump. This can also be used to delay the "off" of the circuit to get the bilge more water free than a float switch could make it.
Sure in engineering it would be called forced histerises (sp?). Useful for small fast boats but eventually the simple approach works.
Great video! Really helpful for a rookie! To that end, if possible could you mention the wire sizes in future videos. It would make it easier to know what the needs/differences are in each circuit.
The first two videos in this series talk about that. It comes down to ohms law or using tables. It's all about resistance.
BOAT ELECTRICAL: ruclips.net/p/PLsT7_jPsZM5ogT6or244F49-Gy7pYFV7V
good stuff! thanks
Your welcome
Great Clark :-)
Wow what a great series you have going. You wouldn't happen to have any interest in designing a complete electrical system?
I actually do that a lot for people. We have a tier on Patreon called "Dream Believers". The perk of that level is phone contact (tends to follow into email and video conference) with us... Loads of people have used that as consulting and designing electrical systems. I like to do it and I always seem to find ways to make a better system for less money then planned. Makes the contribution worth it
Good example and the most serviced circuit on a boat. Breaker panel manufacturers don't protect their led microwires, the led is considered current limiting and in housing. I would just keep the same size wire as protected circuit till at indicator led in a safe box. Can also install a breaker open and power on in addition to the closed circuit.
I like what you did, and it's also nice to start out with a simple circuit with 12 volt lights, series / parallel and talk about voltage drop and current. You may be planning on that in the future as they can get complicated real fast with resistors and math as I'm sure you know. I also think it's a great idea to start out with simple schematic drawing of the circuit, which would help to familiarize viewers with the symbols they will see in real life. I'm trying to say its good to see actual components, but seeing the circuit in a schematic or wiring diagram makes following the components in a circuit that much easier... It give us a road map so we don't get lost, just like driving a car through a city or sailing a boat with charts. Cheers....
Good ideas Terry
Nice vid Clark!
Thank you John
That would be a single POLE single throw switch. Excellent explanation of a simple DC circuit.
cool video, would love to see more of that!
They will be here as I make them
BOAT ELECTRICAL: ruclips.net/p/PLsT7_jPsZM5ogT6or244F49-Gy7pYFV7V
Probably it helps, but i recently found out, that our quite deep bilge sump always emptied the bilge pump tube, making the pump fall dry and producing enormous currents. Now we try to fit a valve to inhibit emptying that tube. Your opinion?
Well a one way valve would do it but I'm concerned the bilge pump wouldn't restart unless you allowed it to drain slowly.
If you use a valve don't use one with a spring, too much back pressure. There are bronze ones that have to be mounted in a certain orientation that should work well.
Another great video - thank you! What do you think about the strategy of having the float switch also wired directly to the battery (via a fuse) so it'll work if the panel switch is accidentally left off, or there's a defect in the switch? Mine's wired like you described (without the handy momentary option), but I've heard the other theory mentioned.
I feel you need a switch to turn it off. For example if you leak some diesel and the costies are around. Last thing you want is a telltale sheen as your boat pumps.
But yes I go right to battery so the only way to turn it off is the one switch. ie Temptress can be dark but still have pumps.
Doing good Work to make marinas a safer place for all :-) I see so many fuses at the appliance side with an unprotected wire running all the length of the boat.
Yes many just don't understand why we use fuses. I blame the VHF radio companies who put an online in their short feed wire.
Oooh! Hex Map! Hex map = Gamer!
Yes Emily has this going on just now.
www.kickstarter.com/projects/smallfurrygames/bahhumbuggame
YT recommended this video to me today. How did they know we are working on the bilge pump tomorrow? Spooky :)
Clarke....great video and I thank you. Can you explain how I turn off house power when leaving yacht but keep bilge auto mode on. Thanks !
Just wire their circuit breaker right to the battery side of your shit off switch so they don't go off
Since you've dropped that bomb of electron flow direction on their heads, go for broke and hit 'em with Hole Theory!😁
Great video on a simple but highly necessary item.
As I said to pontoon Rob:
Or holes flow from pos to negative (used in semiconductors).
But the only true theory is it's all magic smoke. This can be proven because the circuit doesn't work anymore after the smoke leaks out.
Excellent video, thank you! Finding your videos very helpful. Question: Where you’ve placed the circuit breaker in this video, could an inline fuse holder be used safely there instead? Any advantage/disadvantages to either? Thanks again!
Sure. Both are over current protection.
Circuit breaker is also a handy switch.
Okay, call me silly safety guy but I'm still wiring the indicator light with heavy enough wire to match the rest of the circuit & breaker or I'm putting a fuse in it (where it's easily accessible near the panel / switch / light). Besides, good excuse to toss up another comment for you. Safe travels in Indy and have a blast you two!
And you are correct to do so.
Both cases
@@EmilyAndClark Saving the dodgy stuff for lake boat racing where a few ounces here and there adds up to pounds which adds up to 0.10ths. Can always swim to shore in my vest, can't say that offshore and when my home is at stake. :)
Yep "either burn or drown"
That's why you disconnect negative first.
My bilge is not very big. Is there any bilgepumps on the market with an internal floatswitch. If yes - do you recommend a pump like that?
A few some copies, two main well known brands Atwood and others. If your bilge gets gummy they have a high tendency to stick on or off. More expensive and very reliable are hall sensor types, some have been fail on purchase one I am using atm. There are floatless automatics that use timed run load sensing are fine unless you have boat without solar or dock power as they will kill a battery just on checks.
I've been having good luck with these. I've use one in the dinghy for three years now. Cheap!
www.ebay.com/itm/403652370974?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=1dx98jwuteu&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=3Zp5jgUhScS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Hi Clark, This is a great series and much appreciated! I have a question about the position of the fuse. It is positioned on the positive side of the circuit however you said that current runs from the negative side of the battery through the circuit to the positive side of the battery. If this is the current flow then why is the fuse not on the negative side to protect the flow?
It's more likely that a wire that gets loose will find something attached to the negative terminal to touch than the positive terminal.
For example the engine block. A circuit is safe if it's broken anywhere. No current flows.
Forget the water pipe analogy you are likely using. When broken, wires don't spray electrons all over.
I love this set up. I've been looking all over for the circuit switch. Can you share the link. I only found momentary off momentary
Look through the recent comments. I searched for someone and found one in minutes. They are out there.
On-off-(on)
Single POLE. Or Double POLE
Fuses are there to protect the wiring, not the device - it's worthwhile thinking in terms of that if you're doing any wiring.
(momentary ON switches are designated (ON). Off is shown OFF. Always on shown as ON)
The are two types of ON & (ON) switches, ON-OFF-(ON), & OFF-ON-(ON) with the latter used in things like dual function run/kill switches and key switches.
There is a sensational chart showing you the amperage over a distance chart. The longer the RETURN distance*, the thicker the wiring needs to be to carry that current (amperage). Otherwise the wire can still overheat and cause a fire.
*the RETURN distance is the entire length of the wire from the battery, through the switch, and back the battery..... not so hard to imagine when your wiring a fibreglass hull but often overlooked when you are using a chassis in a car or a metal hull as your earth/return/negative.
Check out Water Witch float switch. No moving parts. Im done with that style float switch.
I've used similar switches before. Didn't work for long.
How long have you used this for?
Wow, great videos ! We are just new to 12v and I can't seem to make seem to sense of the logic of protecting a wire with a fuse very near to the energy source... when in fact the energy is running through the circuit from the opposite direction (the black) so the fuse is at the end of the run of wire. You showed us how fast the wire burned in the last video. Are you telling us that if you had put a fuse into that circuit (the one that you burned the wire), that the fuse would have really burned out before that wire burned (even though it was down river)?
Yep.
As far as up/down river goes, forget it.
Change to this. If a wire breaks free is it more likely to find a positive thing to make mischief with or a negative thing?
If you didn't think, negative thing, consider your ENGINE room and think again.
If electrons actually flow from the negative terminal to the positive terminal , does that mean the safest place for the circuit breaker is beside the negative terminal and not the positive? Your videos are awesome and you are an excellent teacher.
Nope put it on the positive side. There are a lot more negatively charged big things around like your engine. If a stray positively charged wire touches something like your engine the fuse will protect you
@@EmilyAndClark Wow, thank you for your quick reply. I’m on to the next video in the playlist :)
Lots of good stuff in our backlog of videos. Enjoy.
If like you said the electricity travels from negative to positive, why do you put the fuse by the positive terminal? Wouldn't that just protect the short wire from fuse to positive terminal? I apologise if I misunderstood something. Thanks for putting these videos out.
Read through the recent comments. I've answered it here.
Clark another great video, very educational. I had a situation the other day on a boat where the pump started working in reverse. No wires were changed and to my knowledge nothing (maintenance) was done to the boat. I discovered it by accident. The pump was running due to the float switch being triggered, but no water was being pumped out of the bilge. I thought the impeller was broken so I opened the cover flipped the switch and saw that the impeller was turning in the wrong direction. I flipped the pump wired and it worked correctly then. What could have made the reversal?
No idea.
Really that can't happen.
Do you have evil spirits aboard?
+ adds electrons to the battery
- takes electrons from the battery
Clearly illustrated.
Great video series I know the bare basics about electricity so this series has ben extremely helpful. I have what may be a dumb question but how do I go about tracing the wiring back to the electrical panel? For example if I wanted to replace the wiring to my bilge pump.
Pulling wire in a boat sucks. It's a lot of wiggling and pulling to see what moves. There are usually 100 wire ties you need to remove and replace. Having a helper helps a lot.
When you find what you are looking for use an old wire to pull the new wires
I find sewing the wires together to be much better than taping them.
@@EmilyAndClark My bilge pump wiring "disappears" under the sole how would I determine where it "reappears" in the electrical panel
Would I just disconnect it from the breaker and pull it from there?
if so How would I find the negative side?
It's always different. The easiest would be to trace it electrically. Disconnect both ends of the candidate wire. Attach another wire to one end and at the other end of both wires use your meter or a battery and light to see if both ends are truly the same wire. If so great. If not try another of the same color
Or if possible just use your meter to verify there is battery power then switch it off or remove the panel end. If it goes dark it's your wire
One question if you found it interesting. Why to put the fuse on the positive side of the batt if the current is flowing from the negative side?
Good question Sylvio,
As long as you don't have a complete circuit there is no current flow so theoretically it wouldn't matter. But since most installations use a "negative ground" for the engine, and therefore the ocean and bilge, there are a lot of stray access to negative. So it's best to protect from the positive side in case of a wire coming loose and finding something charged negative.
Nice to hear someone broach the pos-neg flow issue. Hope you didn't open a can of worms. Any tig welder would understand your thinking. Electrode pos vs. neg. Heat in the work or in the tungsten....balance is in there on the AC welding but similar Theory. Personally, while it's easier to understand neg to pos flow, isn't it more correct to say a circuit is just instantaneously charged?
Or holes flow from pos to negative (used in semiconductors).
But the only true theory is it's all magic smoke. This can be proved because the circuit doesn't work anymore after the smoke leaks out.
Great job. BTW- single POLE, not single-pull.
Would wiring the LED in series between the pump and the battery achieve the same thing, as in it would be powered when and only when the pump is operating?
No. The current would have to pass through both so only the current that the led could pass would be available to the pump.
That wouldn't be enough to pump water.
If the float is activated and you hit the momentary switch will it backfeed and blow the circuit or fuze?😊
Nope. Those two circuits just share the current.
Good question though
What are your thoughts on similar bilge pumps, but that are automatic with an internal float switch? Seems like they would take up less space and less likely to have a stray wire hold the float switch down.
Like this one?
ruclips.net/video/mP_dQClOic4/видео.html
Love it.
Clark, back when you did the episode on your Lund Dinghy, you mentioned that you had built your aluminum dinghies at one time. Do you have any plans or photos of how you were building them. Thank you for your time and your videos
Actually I build of plywood and fiberglass and I would recommend it. I used a stich and tape method.
Emily built her dinghy with a similar method (stich and glue). I'll send a link to her build videos.
No I designed my own but started from plans I bought. We have no plans to publish my plans.
Emily Builds a Sailboat: ruclips.net/p/PLsT7_jPsZM5qrTdxolBxRZAsUfuacyiE1
Different kind of boat but similar construction. The bigger skiff actually has fewer parts.
Great video Clark, I needed to draw my own schematic to see how the LED was wired, and how it works. Do you have wiring schematics for Temptress?
Only in my head.
But I will have an episode talking about a full yachts wiring schematic.
I do things a bit differently.
Well sir I understand all the wiring but it's the switch that I would like to see you wire to the prongs so I have an idea of how to hook up the switch I get the wiring system a toggle switch it has six prongs in the back
You really have to check the individual switch or look at its data sheet.
The easiest way is to probe it with your multimeter set for continuity.
A log meter might be interesting to include to track the time or just instances of the pump running in a given period of time. But you might drive yourself crazy given all the variables.
There are many the basic is an event counter. The most elaborate while simple messages you with count duration, voltage etc
Sure. Just a simple engine hour counter wired in parallel to the lead does the trick well for unattended boats.