Personal opinion, it is better to lengthen the men's penalty loop than to shorten anything. The difference in the style of athlete between the most skiing-biased and the most shooting-biased is far greater in the women's competitions, because they ski the same penalty loop but shorter laps, so the penalty for a miss is far greater. There is much more variety in the competition in the women's races, and we frequently have a more competitive and more varied World Cup for the women than we do for the men. I know you can't stop somebody as good as Bø or Fourcade from being dominant, but I think making the penalty for missing greater in the men's races would significantly improve the Mass Start and pursuits.
Very interesting opinion here. I want to go back and look at some historical results and see what the field would look like if instead of 150m (about 23s) there was 175m or about 25s per penalty.
The Pursuit is my favorite event, but I believe anything that can be done to reduce the number of people being lapped and to keep the field more together would be beneficial. Maybe instead of people starting X seconds behind the winner based on their time from a prior race, their start time behind should be X/2. Wasn't their an adjustment at the World Team Challenge like this?
They could also implement a maximum start time gap of say, 10 seconds. It would keep the race tighter and more interesting at the start and could compact the field!
I would say that pursuits and mass starts should be worth less points than sprints and individuals. Also, get rid of spare rounds in the single mixed relay, they take too long to load in comparison to a 1.5 km loop. Also, get rid of spare rounds in the mixed relay, make it different than just a men's relay and woman's relay stuck together.
I think of some of the nations that don't have the depth. or maybe they have some youngsters racing leg 3 and 4. Getting lapped doesn't help with morale or development.
The traditional 4-person relays are WAY too long in my opinion. A race of 80 minutes will always produce massive time gaps between stronger and weaker nations, which makes it less interesting to follow. My favorite races to follow are the head-to-heads that last 30-40 minutes (pursuit, MS, single mixed relay)
This a bit, I enjoy the ebb and flow of the longer races. What I hate is how only a few countries can win the relays. Surely three participants would be more sporting and therefore entertaining?
@@belbrighton6479 They should do random mixed relays comprised of athletes mixed up regardless of nations. 20 teams of 4 athletes, and each team only gets one athlete ranked in the top 20, one athlete ranked 21-40 etc. 😂
Once the Formula 1had this thing when the race was finished the teams, that were laped, wre shown in the results : Time + 1. I think that would be more fair instead of a shorter panelty loop
Off topic: Maybe you're lucky, Brian. Our NRK commentary experts predict that it's so close race that the victory of the WC overall will desided in Canmore 😃🤩
😁 maybe a little off tobic,but on NRK homepage is an article about that the Norwegian women team have only5athletes at the start line, even if they are so strong in the IBU Cup. The official comments are that no woman is good enough for the WC. Because both Røiseland and Eckhoff were very slow starters. OK, Tiril had some wins or podiums but how often was she low ranged, to me , it felt that way. Maybe not Erdal but Johansen or Kirkeeide give them more chances
ad pursuit points, we would lose those winning last laps from the leading athletes, which are always fun for the spectators and I believe the athletes enjoy them as well. 🙂
That is one thing I considered that ultimately got edited out of the video. I agree that the victory lap with high-fives and waves does make for a fun experience.
We need the national quotas in World Championships and the World Cup. It's sad that it prevents us from seeing the actual best biathletes (ie. the depths in the Norwegian men's team), but one nation dominating too much is never healthy for a sport. It's a problem in men's cross-country skiing and the last few season it's starting to show in men's biathlon too. The Badminton World Federation (BWF) had huge problems for many years with China dominating the sport and in the 2012 Olympics that one nation won all five gold medals. The BWF understood it had to reduce the quotas, and following that decision the sport has experienced growth in important countries like India and Japan, but also a resurgence in Korea, Indonesia, and Thailand. Many of these countries producing World, Olympics and Asian Games champions of their own. Traditional men and women's relays are outdated. These competitions go on for too long (1 hour+) and too few nations are able to compete for the podium. I think shorter and more mixed relays are the way to get more nations involved. If any change is to be made to the traditional relays I think they would need to reduce it to only three biathletes instead of four. To use an example from the WCs (2022) There were only 16 participating countries in the women's relay. 9 of these were within 5 minutes of the winner Italy's finish, only 4 within 2 minutes. There were 26 participating countries in the mixed relay. 18 of these were within 5 minutes of the winner at the finish line, while a total of 7 of these were less than 2 minutes behind Norway. In the single mixed relay, the numbers are even clearer. 27 started, 21 were within 5 minutes, 8 within 2 minutes. Regarding the sprint and following pursuit-problem, even the otherwise conservative cross-country sport abolished the corresponding combination of sprint and pursuit after the three Winter Games in the 1990s. Looking at it statistically, since the pursuits were introduced, the person who leads after the sprint is on the podium more than 60 % of the time, regardless of gender. There can't be a medal or full 90pts awarded after both competitions, especially considering starting ahead is already an advantage in itself. It is easier to ski in a field and to climb the ranks which should be rewarded, but starting in front shows that even if you miss 2 or 3 targets you still get a relatively high finish and a lot of points. The starting times (the ones following the leader) need to halved, or reduced in some way to account for limited space on the shooting range, so more people are fighting for the top positions.
I actually agree with your thought on the relay. the last few years has been a race between 4-5 nations and nobody else can break though. I think it would be cool to do more Single Mixed Relays (SMR) and even do Men's SMRs and Women's SMRs. And even better yet, allow A teams and B teams like XC does.
Please NO! Biathlon/Cross Country are National Sports in Norway and Sweden, and relatively lesser degrees of importance in other nations. Implementing a quota so that 'n' athletes from two or three nations can qualify would NOT help elevate the sport in smaller nations. Countries like China, Japan, Korea (and others) would not continue to field teams, which would lessen the sport's appeal globally. That said, relay is different. I would love to see "B" teams from the larger nations like Norway, and it would be awesome to see Norge B win the Men's relay!
Evolving rules is always a battle between the traditionalists and progressives in any sport. Look at flouro, or remember the 'cyclone start' for pursuits? 1. Like the idea of inviting the top athletes from IBU Cup. Perhaps include the "IBU points" as a threshold. Also, don't the top ?20? athletes already have their room&board comp'd by the IBU for World Cups and World Champs? 2. DRS - just quit pulling lapped athletes on team pursuit. Require them to stop/move to the side (which happens anyway) but let them race. It does become problematic though. A couple of the teams last week didn't even make it to the third athlete. Their 4th athlete might be 20 minutes down on the leader by the time they finish, and nobody wants to be standing around in damp gear for that long, especially if it's -10C and windy. 3. Pursuit changes - nah. Leave it alone:) 4. Other changes - 1 minute in the distance races is an onerous penalty. Perhaps go to a '3 spare rounds' rule before invoking the minute?
I think the reason they pull for lapping is because they don't want a lapped team to interfere with the leaders going for the win (especially when there is $$ on the line). So it's easiest to just write into the rules your are pulled when you are lapped. and there are even fines and penalties that can be issued if you don't pull off when you are lapped.
Don't pull teams for getting lapped. Let them finish. Given all the time, Iogistics, and expense just to get to the race, and being allowed to start but not finish doesn't seem fair even if they get in the way or if you have to wait a long time for them to finish.
Postovani Brajane, uvodjenje dodatnog metka u trkama potere i mas starta bi po meni bilo interesantno. U slucaju promasaja takmicar ima pravo na dodatni metak. Time bi se favorizovali precizniji a sporiji takmicari.
The Pursuit points change could be an interesting addition. Not sure about letting more athletes in from the IBU cup do we really want to see a top 10 full of all Norwegians.
Personal opinion, it is better to lengthen the men's penalty loop than to shorten anything. The difference in the style of athlete between the most skiing-biased and the most shooting-biased is far greater in the women's competitions, because they ski the same penalty loop but shorter laps, so the penalty for a miss is far greater.
There is much more variety in the competition in the women's races, and we frequently have a more competitive and more varied World Cup for the women than we do for the men. I know you can't stop somebody as good as Bø or Fourcade from being dominant, but I think making the penalty for missing greater in the men's races would significantly improve the Mass Start and pursuits.
Very interesting opinion here. I want to go back and look at some historical results and see what the field would look like if instead of 150m (about 23s) there was 175m or about 25s per penalty.
The Pursuit is my favorite event, but I believe anything that can be done to reduce the number of people being lapped and to keep the field more together would be beneficial. Maybe instead of people starting X seconds behind the winner based on their time from a prior race, their start time behind should be X/2. Wasn't their an adjustment at the World Team Challenge like this?
They could also implement a maximum start time gap of say, 10 seconds. It would keep the race tighter and more interesting at the start and could compact the field!
I think a few years back they did someting like this where they started a Pursuit after an individual. They did 1/2 time back.
@@philippehamel57 short time gaps could cause not enough spots on shooting range, esp on shooting 1
I would say that pursuits and mass starts should be worth less points than sprints and individuals. Also, get rid of spare rounds in the single mixed relay, they take too long to load in comparison to a 1.5 km loop. Also, get rid of spare rounds in the mixed relay, make it different than just a men's relay and woman's relay stuck together.
I like all your ideas except for your second. I DO agree that teams being lapped need more opportunities to continue to ski.
I think of some of the nations that don't have the depth. or maybe they have some youngsters racing leg 3 and 4. Getting lapped doesn't help with morale or development.
The traditional 4-person relays are WAY too long in my opinion. A race of 80 minutes will always produce massive time gaps between stronger and weaker nations, which makes it less interesting to follow. My favorite races to follow are the head-to-heads that last 30-40 minutes (pursuit, MS, single mixed relay)
This a bit, I enjoy the ebb and flow of the longer races. What I hate is how only a few countries can win the relays. Surely three participants would be more sporting and therefore entertaining?
@@belbrighton6479 They should do random mixed relays comprised of athletes mixed up regardless of nations. 20 teams of 4 athletes, and each team only gets one athlete ranked in the top 20, one athlete ranked 21-40 etc. 😂
NRK (Norwegian) shows the IBU Championship, and before WC championship, in the gap some races on TV, I think that's. great
Once the Formula 1had this thing when the race was finished the teams, that were laped, wre shown in the results : Time + 1. I think that would be more fair instead of a shorter panelty loop
Technically, if you are lapped you are "frozen in time" and placed on the results in the place you were in when you get lapped. This is for NC points.
Off topic: Maybe you're lucky, Brian. Our NRK commentary experts predict that it's so close race that the victory of the WC overall will desided in Canmore 😃🤩
😁 maybe a little off tobic,but on NRK homepage is an article about that the Norwegian women team have only5athletes at the start line, even if they are so strong in the IBU Cup. The official comments are that no woman is good enough for the WC. Because both Røiseland and Eckhoff were very slow starters. OK, Tiril had some wins or podiums but how often was she low ranged, to me , it felt that way. Maybe not Erdal but Johansen or Kirkeeide give them more chances
ad pursuit points, we would lose those winning last laps from the leading athletes, which are always fun for the spectators and I believe the athletes enjoy them as well. 🙂
That is one thing I considered that ultimately got edited out of the video. I agree that the victory lap with high-fives and waves does make for a fun experience.
We need the national quotas in World Championships and the World Cup. It's sad that it prevents us from seeing the actual best biathletes (ie. the depths in the Norwegian men's team), but one nation dominating too much is never healthy for a sport. It's a problem in men's cross-country skiing and the last few season it's starting to show in men's biathlon too.
The Badminton World Federation (BWF) had huge problems for many years with China dominating the sport and in the 2012 Olympics that one nation won all five gold medals. The BWF understood it had to reduce the quotas, and following that decision the sport has experienced growth in important countries like India and Japan, but also a resurgence in Korea, Indonesia, and Thailand. Many of these countries producing World, Olympics and Asian Games champions of their own.
Traditional men and women's relays are outdated. These competitions go on for too long (1 hour+) and too few nations are able to compete for the podium. I think shorter and more mixed relays are the way to get more nations involved. If any change is to be made to the traditional relays I think they would need to reduce it to only three biathletes instead of four.
To use an example from the WCs (2022)
There were only 16 participating countries in the women's relay. 9 of these were within 5 minutes of the winner Italy's finish, only 4 within 2 minutes.
There were 26 participating countries in the mixed relay. 18 of these were within 5 minutes of the winner at the finish line, while a total of 7 of these were less than 2 minutes behind Norway.
In the single mixed relay, the numbers are even clearer. 27 started, 21 were within 5 minutes, 8 within 2 minutes.
Regarding the sprint and following pursuit-problem, even the otherwise conservative cross-country sport abolished the corresponding combination of sprint and pursuit after the three Winter Games in the 1990s. Looking at it statistically, since the pursuits were introduced, the person who leads after the sprint is on the podium more than 60 % of the time, regardless of gender. There can't be a medal or full 90pts awarded after both competitions, especially considering starting ahead is already an advantage in itself.
It is easier to ski in a field and to climb the ranks which should be rewarded, but starting in front shows that even if you miss 2 or 3 targets you still get a relatively high finish and a lot of points. The starting times (the ones following the leader) need to halved, or reduced in some way to account for limited space on the shooting range, so more people are fighting for the top positions.
I actually agree with your thought on the relay. the last few years has been a race between 4-5 nations and nobody else can break though. I think it would be cool to do more Single Mixed Relays (SMR) and even do Men's SMRs and Women's SMRs. And even better yet, allow A teams and B teams like XC does.
Please NO! Biathlon/Cross Country are National Sports in Norway and Sweden, and relatively lesser degrees of importance in other nations. Implementing a quota so that 'n' athletes from two or three nations can qualify would NOT help elevate the sport in smaller nations. Countries like China, Japan, Korea (and others) would not continue to field teams, which would lessen the sport's appeal globally.
That said, relay is different. I would love to see "B" teams from the larger nations like Norway, and it would be awesome to see Norge B win the Men's relay!
Evolving rules is always a battle between the traditionalists and progressives in any sport. Look at flouro, or remember the 'cyclone start' for pursuits?
1. Like the idea of inviting the top athletes from IBU Cup. Perhaps include the "IBU points" as a threshold. Also, don't the top ?20? athletes already have their room&board comp'd by the IBU for World Cups and World Champs?
2. DRS - just quit pulling lapped athletes on team pursuit. Require them to stop/move to the side (which happens anyway) but let them race. It does become problematic though. A couple of the teams last week didn't even make it to the third athlete. Their 4th athlete might be 20 minutes down on the leader by the time they finish, and nobody wants to be standing around in damp gear for that long, especially if it's -10C and windy.
3. Pursuit changes - nah. Leave it alone:)
4. Other changes - 1 minute in the distance races is an onerous penalty. Perhaps go to a '3 spare rounds' rule before invoking the minute?
I think the reason they pull for lapping is because they don't want a lapped team to interfere with the leaders going for the win (especially when there is $$ on the line). So it's easiest to just write into the rules your are pulled when you are lapped. and there are even fines and penalties that can be issued if you don't pull off when you are lapped.
Don't pull teams for getting lapped. Let them finish. Given all the time, Iogistics, and expense just to get to the race, and being allowed to start but not finish doesn't seem fair even if they get in the way or if you have to wait a long time for them to finish.
Postovani Brajane, uvodjenje dodatnog metka u trkama potere i mas starta bi po meni bilo interesantno. U slucaju promasaja takmicar ima pravo na dodatni metak. Time bi se favorizovali precizniji a sporiji takmicari.
I do like this idea. I also though of a "Golden Bullet" idea where an athlete can use 1 extra bullet at anytime 😅
The Pursuit points change could be an interesting addition. Not sure about letting more athletes in from the IBU cup do we really want to see a top 10 full of all Norwegians.
I see your point 😅
almost all women athletes and Aleksander Fjeld Andersen had a chance at the WC and I think Urdal, too.
And they all raced well. But only Endre got to race at WCH
do you think people really like to see more Norwegian dominant races😁? That's fine by me🤩
If a Norwgian on the IBU cup has the talent to compete for the World Championship then I think they should be entitled to do so.