Stock? Mill? Square!
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2016
- Back to basics! Seems like there just aren't enough stock-squaring videos on the internet. Thought I'd make one.
Machineshop Physics: Vice deflection - Farfegnugen
• Machineshop Physics: V...
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This is my 4th watch, youtube recommends it every 3 to 6 months, and i'm weak.
Same. I've watched this atleast 10 times, and yet I still can't make squares
@@j.adamwegs2882 I don't even own a mill ;)
me too, I'm a wreck
Same, there is something about watching a man with a square that is so interesting.
@@alynoser Dammit, now I'm watching it a 5th time. Stoopid RUclips "someone commented on your commnent"
you are literally the only person that can make a 25min video about squaring and not be boring.
Datulab Tech Boring a square? How do you bore a square?
+XtreeM FaiL, take MDMA and play lots of loud psy-trance music?
what? is this 25min? TF is wrong with me?
I don't know that TOT is the only one who *could* do it, but as far as I can tell, he's the only one who *did*! ;^)
Next challenge: make a 30min video about boring and not be square...
I know the name of that shape, so as instructed, I am commenting down below.
16:06 is the timestamp you need if you want to verify that Tony actually asked for this.
"Sweeps whole table of mugs and stuff on the floor" - welcome to my surface plate!
Tony,you are one of the best explaining and skills-showing machinist i've ever seen)
"this block should suffice for what I need it to do" *puts a precision measured block under chair.*
TOT inspired the Princess and the Pea fable.
That was brilliant!
ToT's endings are always great, but this one was precisely so.
Spoilers my dude!
this is the best comment :D
I work in IT. In England. I don't have space for any home shop in my little house. I will never use the information you so eloquently provided.
I did however find it fascinating and extremely well presented. Love your Vids and keep up the good work!!
same boat
I said exactly the same, fast forward 15 years and I now have a modest shop. I started out using the coffee table in the living room of our flat. It can be done it just takes a really long time to get there.
With a little creative chip management and an understanding housemate, it can be done. My first lathe (a 7x12) lived next to my fridge in the kitchen at my previous place.
I have the same lack of space you have. So I have a Taig (Peatol in the UK) lathe and a Proxxon micromill. They would both fit in a closet. You just have to adapt the size of what you do to the room you have. You will have to work small, build clocks, build small models, and so on.
+Juan Rivero You can build big things, you just have to make them out of LOTS of small parts.
“Parallelism and squareness are like kissing cousins. Things can be simple and complicated at the same time” this made me laugh
As a machining student you have no idea how helpful these videos are. I learned to cut threads more from this channel than my teacher. Now I understand how to actually fix an error with a square block.
Are you now square with the world Tony? Nothing like a simple chair repair that leads to another educational video on machining basics.
And down the rabbit hole we go... these machining vids are quite interesting. Just don't keep that vice abom tight :) especially with whatever AvE tells you to put in there.
PNWMan ESPECIALLY what ave tells us to put in there
I swore he said Avon tight?
Hey Abom79. I just finished watching one of your excellent videos.
Simple chair repair.... define simple
16:08 that's a Square in italics
_Square_
There's a button for that on the DRO
“What’s the 3D equivalent of a right angle?” The phrasing you were looking for is, “With this cut, we need to make this corner, orthogonal.”
Dang it I thought I was smart with my answer of "vertex" but I guess that's just a corner.
"normal" also works.
Your channel is a goldmine for entry level machinists. Your banter keeps me completely entertained while you educate on the subject at hand, and drop task-related tips along the way... much appreciated.
There is a way to square up a block with 7 cuts. Use the dial indicator to square the head, table, and vise once. When the static jaw is know to be true use your method of cutting for the first 4 faces. The 5th face is purposely moved out of square between the jaws, then skim cut that face. Flip the block 180 to face #6 and rotate the block 90 degrees in Zed. Now side #6 is square in both directions. Turn the block 180 again and re-cut side #5. You now have a block that is as square as your vise will allow. As a Tool Maker for over 30 years, I've used this method a thousand times over with predicable results, but most importantly, it's fast and easy! Keep up the good work Tony.
thx!
Yeah, and you dont even need to square the vice.
Took me a minute to visualise this idea but damn, that is genius.
Hey TOT, this seems like a quick video challenge for you!
"The 5th face is purposely moved out of square between the jaws, then
skim cut that face. Flip the block 180 to face #6 and rotate the block
90 degrees in Zed. Now side #6 is square in both directions. Turn the
block 180 again and re-cut side #5. "
I don't quite understand this. Is there a video or more detailed description?
If anyone is interested, for the question at 13:51, the concept of being square in higher dimensions is called orthogonality.
Thankyou for finally telling me the meaning of the word "orthogonality". Its everywhere in my engineering curriculum, and I didn't know what it means.
I'm working with some 4 dimensional math. This is very accurate.
@@KalijahAnderson Thanks to you too, good sir.
Might I ask, are there any analytical techniques in mathematics for solving non-linear differential equations? I ask because all I see currently in my engineering curriculum has to do with linear differential equations and higher powers are neglected (Taylor series approximations). But these are only applicable for certain common cases (infinitesimal strain) and materials (Newtonian fluids). For more specialised machines, non-linearity is common, but our curriculum is not teaching us anything about dealing with those problems.
@@death_parade I have extremely bad news. They're often unsolvable. Look into Chaos theory for more information on non linear systems. That's what it's all about
@@gamemeister27 Thank you for your guidance sir! I'll be sure to check it out. *:)*
The " Men Without Hats" reference was freaking hilarious.
16:07 That shape is Jeff. I'd recognize him anywhere.
Not just interesting but humorous, engaging, witty, thoughtful, insightful, educational and very very entertaining. Thank you for your time and passion about what you bring to us for our iducation (thus called when educating idiots : ) )
Yes!
Right? I'll probably never use this information, but it's nice to know how.
uberLejoe i
nonsense, you can use this for drilling holes in a drill press if you don't for say a milling machine.
He really does produce some entertaining videos. What a super talented guy.
Perfect 10 out of 10 in the category "Making simple yet complicated tasks interesting and entertaining" that is a RUclips first Tony, nicely done.
YES
I am a welder/fitter...and i absolutely hate it, and yet, I find myself watching your videos when I'm home and loving what I do. You're a wizard.
"Welcome to my surface plate; the place in my shop where Dreams come to die." priceless!
"Physics don't care about the price of a tool", Stefan Gotteswinter, Sep 27, 2015 :-)
I'm dying! I have no real experience machining metal, but my god are your videos amazing! All the tricks and heavy on the humour! Just what I like!
Interesting. My father was a Boy Apprentice Fitter in the Royal flying Core before it became the RAF in WW1 and I remember him saying that in one of his exams he had to make a perfect squared one-inch Metal Cube.
Yes, and with a file too.......I served as an apprentice in the late 50's ....that is how we were tested....square one end and a hex the other.
"The place in my workshop, where dreams come do die..." hahahaha, so true :-)
I die inside a little bit every time I have to go through this process. My dreams . . . . what . . . . what were they? . . . its been so long
Oh, just saw the pipe in the beginning. Do you use it to point at things to make your arguments more valid? :D
Why else would I have it?! ;)
It goes well with his cartigan sweater!
A comment to an older video and comment.. I think the chair, pipe, and book was in reference/spoof to the Alistair Cook series Letters From America. Quite the staid and mannerly Englishman don't' you know.
Stefan Gotteswinter h
No, he has elbow patches for that.
I found this incredibly useful and entertaining. As a person just starting to learn about machining, these kinds of "basics" videos are really awesome! Thanks for taking the time to make it!
"welcome to my surface plate. a place in my shop where dreams come to die"
that there is just a definition of my whole workshop
Gotta be honest, I have renewed respect for the kid in our shop that spends all day doing this. I'm just a programmer, never spent much time in the shop, nor gave much thought as to what goes into super basic functions like this.
The amount of quality and time that is put into videos on youtube is too damn low. We need more people like you. I can literally watch any of your videos without getting bored for a single second. Keep it up man, great stuff as always.
And people ask why we use grinding vices on our milling machines all the time ;)
Stefan Gotteswinter, what were you doing to Barbie in Tony's chip pile?
My lawyer recommended me not to answer this question.
Because Kurt 8" anglock jaw rises .004-.007" on clamping?
Parallelogram! I love your videos Tony. You have expanded my interest and knowledge into machining and practical mechanic skills. I'm a journeyman millwright and always learn new stuff from you!
Thank you for the master class on how to use a surface plate and dial indicator. Your ability to teach is unparalleled. 😀
LMAO!!!! A surface plate "where dreams come to die" ain't that the truth. It's sure ruined my day more than a few times checking tooling I shouldn't have bought and instead upgraded to better. It's also impressed me a few times tho.
no, I don't think you understand. I just clicked on a video by This Old Tony!! Who cares what it's about.
Paul Martin is I agree long as the video is Skookm as Frig it's good in my book
MobiusHorizons i
Thanks TOT!, I'm a long time subscriber and have learned so much from your videos.
I got into manual milling in 2017 and would watch your videos to learn, and then kept coming back for the dad jokes.
I've been taking CNC machining classes at a local college and the professor has this as a required video. It's great to see others recognize your talent.
Thanks Tony. I gotta tell you I really enjoy your teaching style. Your sense of humor makes all the difference.
Gag one degree right angle plate LOL
We had a bunch of them at work. we had to make them non gag 0 degree plates. The best part, brand fucking new.
Luiz that would be pure evil in the shop hahaha
I don't know how I found your video but it's the most fun I've ever had watching a square. lmao. I wish I'm your friend making fun stuff in your shop. Thanks for making the video.
Thanks David!
The amount of production effort and output value from this video is staggering... and I watched the whole thing. Keep it up!
You are such a wonderful teacher. Love the subtle humor. What a priviledge would be to know you. Thanks for the video Tony.
Why isn't there a Pulitzer Prize for machinist humor?
KarlBunker Carnegie. Should I say "why"? I hate explaining jokes yet have empathy for those whose path hasn't lead them to understanding. 😄
It's steel. Carnegie got rich(er) making steel and thereafter, the Carnegie endowments.
@@WillBravoNotEvil whats a Carnegie? is it a type of milling tool?
Orthogonal is probably the best term to describe "right angles" in multiple dimensions. By definition, orthogonality can represent any number of vectors, planes, or spaces that are perpendicular to one another.
Also the zero vector is orthogonal to all vectors, maybe even itself? But yet it has no length and so no direction. So there is that :P Two vectors being orthogonal means their dot product is zero. Or stated in another way, when one is projected on another, there isn't any length there, so they are "unrelated".
Basics videos may be tough to do, but as a complete novice I appreciate it. I've heard you use the term trammed, and gather it's correct meaning, but had no idea how to go about it. We all have to learn somehow and you have a way of presenting information so that is engaging and sticks in the mind. So thank you for taking the extra effort to do a basics video. I'll keep poking around your channel to see if there are other basics videos.
I always learn something in these videos. With your great sense of humour I always enjoy the process too. Please keep them coming, thanks.
Those damn shims, always working their way under the part.
This video was 25 minutes long? Sure didn't feel like it.
superdau time flies when you're watching a good video
Especially so when watching it at 1.25 speed.
@@ExtantFrodo2 seems a bit longer at when I viewed it at 3/4 speed... Not sure why tho.
Thanks Tony! I'm new to machining and just bought a mini-lathe. That's an awesome mini-mill you're working with! Looks like this hobby will be affordable after all. :-)
Phenomenally educational video with a little bit of humor sprinkled in there. Awesome! Thank you for that.
Absolutely fascinating. I feel the urge to buy a milling machine now, just so I can square the crap out of stuff! Thanks very much.
the chair! the chair! man, I'm still laughing...
Excellent video. Superb humour. That is what draws me to your content.
thanks for a verry informative, detailed and entertaining video.
I much prefer learning something like this in depth with trouble shooting included than just being told a number of steps that "should" make a square part in a perfect world.
"we'd better make sure Laverne and Shirley are square with each other. if not, that could result in some zany misadventures."
"or a picture of huey lewis. anything you are confidant is square." the lines just keep coming.
Or perhaps it is just hip to be square!
love all the detail in your vids.
Full of square information as always, your videos are great with a little comedy. Thanks Tony!
Excellent video! You went into great detail for a simple process that frequently doesn’t get done correctly.
At 13:50: your question, "what is the 3d equivalent to a right angle?" The word you are looking for is orthogonal (perpendicular to a plane).
also, the shorthand for orthogonal is the word "normal" as in we need this side to be normal to the other two sides.
I would also mention that normal is pretty much specifically for 3d where as orthogonal is for any number of dimensions.
Orthonormal vertex?
@@forthector7188 Not exactly, i think. Let V be a vector space over a field (of either complex or real numbers) that forms a Hilbert space together with some norm induced by a scalar product ( [x,y] ; x,y € V). We then call a set X in V of vectors orthogonal if for all vectors in X the following holds: [x_i, x_j] = 0 whereas i =/ j and i,j € I (with I being the Index set of len(X)). If for all vectors of X, Sqrt( [x_i,x_i] ) = 1 holds, we call the set a set of orthonormal vectors. If said set linearly independet, then it is the orthonormal basis of a vectorspace (U) in V with dimension(U)
You could say 3 "mutually orthogonal" planes or edges/lines.
I would start with the largest side because cutting it will apply the most force against your fixture that you'll see in the entire operation. Getting the hardest cut out of the way first makes sense to me for three reasons;
1. Applying force to a part will *always* cause it to deflect by at least a tiny amount. Getting the highest force cut done first, before you have more than one datum, means every other feature can be kept just that much more square in the proceeding operations.
2. If the other sides are unfinished, then you don't need to worry about marring their faces by clamping down extra hard in the fixture.
3. *IF* something goes wrong and your part gets yanked out, this is the most likely time for it to happen, so you waste the least time with starting over if you demo the job on the first operation.
The size of the required dimensional adjustment has absolutely nothing to do with the forces or deflection.
You obviously have no experience in milling, and the assumptions that you are making are comically incorrect.
I recently found your channel and i have become addicted... seeing the opening to this one has really brought it to light.
Your videos are always so fun AND informative! This one, of course, is no exception! Bonus points for the Huey Lewis reference! ('Cause it IS, after all, hip to be square!)
I find the measurement part fascinating, watching this I start to realise I've missed a lot of measurement technique going straight to heavy dude measurement tools like CMM. Respect to people getting accurate results with older tools.
How are you using a CMM if you don't know these simple techniques with indicators🤣
This Old Tony... you're the Toniest! :)
I just started a CNC Machining Program and squaring up stock is one of the first practical things we're doing. I'm so excited to finally get my hands on some machine tools!
I love watching your videos, as entertaining as they are informative.
That Huey Lewis reference was gold
I laughed a few times watching this. The end was the funniest.
Thanks for the time and effort you put into these videos.
Fascinating. And sounds frustrating. I love how what you needed it for was the easy chair lol! Awesome video
"nuclear fusion... not yet anyway". I like where it is going :)
omg you're hilarious and your film making skills are awesome
Love your lavern and shirley references! great humor but a total layman terms for a novice like me to understand why you check not only you machine but the pieces to be worked on!! great video Tony!!
Thanks for sharing such a comprehensive video, I has been thinking about it for a long time
You just rendered and uploaded a video about making a sort of square block into a more square block. Take your like, sir.
That shape is a thrombosis.
lol :)
Wait, i dont think thats right
LOL. I seriously looked it up to check before realizing your joking. I saw your post and was like "Wait...isnt that a parallelogram?" and then had to facepalm.
Dammit another Tony Troll got me.
It's a roomba, and it sucks.
I played one of those in my high school band!
Good video. I’ve learned a lot from your channel and recently this year I’ve learned a lot in apprenticeship. I use slips of cardboard to hold rough sawn blocks in the vise. It has good holding power and protects the jaws.
One thing I would have added is sizing the block, because usually you can get that done when you square it up.
This Old Tony, I think you may be my favorite comedian. Not only do your videos show the craftsmanship of your engineering but also your craftsmanship of the language and experience of all who dabble in engineering.
Talk about squaring your material will you? If I put my root beer in a square cup, will it be just beer?I always thought a tram was just another name for a bus. Next thing you'll be redesigning the flux capacitor. Why does that vise smell funky?
howder1951 "Rootbeer in a square cup!" 😂 Well played, Sir!
Parallelogram
Maybe even a rhombus
Nawww, this is clearly a trick question - but it's not fooling me! That shape was definitely an isosceles trapeze, sawed in half vertically, with one side welded back on upside-down. It's a good weld, but I can still just barely make out the seam...
The 3D version of a parallelogram is a parallelepiped
Pythagoras Theroy
techincally it would be a parallelepiped, cause it's 3d
(literally the only reason i know of it's existence is because i took extra math in high school)
Tony, watching ALL your videos again. The first time got me through 2020 and lockdown. I am indebted to you. From a listener across the pond (an "import" listener, I guess).
You are never boring, Tony. Thank You.
Watched until end of video, fell off chair laughing at use of perfectly square block
Dear This Old Tony, I'm a big fan of your channel. could you please make a video of the process of making a 'Turner's Cube'. One of those, cube within a cube,within a cube things that an aprentice would make on a lathe when our country ( England) had aprentices. It would be interesting to see how you aproach the challenge. I've been struggling with making one for weeks now and just ended up with lots of scrap.
Kindest regards. George Bear.
I run to my wife like a kid on Christmas to share my recap of each of your videos. I have even had her sit and watch a few with me (voluntarily, no ropes, no GHB) and she laughs at your cleverness as much as I do. Thanks for being a great teacher. I just have to keep her away from my lathe and mill now.
I never thought of using path integral equations to resolve the number of sides to a block, but Schrodinger, Einstein, Noether and I all agree, you somehow got the answer right! I would however like to see the proof of this in generalized form. Hopefully, it will take less time than Fermat's last theorem. Sincerely, G. Feynman
Hahaha did you notice that the equation that flashed up showed a gradient instead of the needed Laplacian? :p
'cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance then they ain't no friends of mine! I love men without hats
16:10 a parallelogram
Doc Anderson or hard on the brakes if it's going the other direction.
Best videos on youtube. Thanks for the education and the entertainment.
You make the world a better place. Thank you, sir!
Now that you mentioned fusion in the hope shop, I guess you need to build a fusor.
subbed after watching the first 15 seconds, just sayin
touche'. ;) thanks Jacobus!
I managed to resist till the end of the video, but it was painfully obvious from the onset. But the use for the block.... I should be dead from how hard I wanted to laugh...
I come to your channel for calming and laugh and i get a lot of it. Thank you
Another wonderful video of the basics made unboring.
Love the choice of intro/exit music.
Welcome to my surface plate, where dreams come to die.! LOL
Were any Stefans hurt in the recording of this video?
Thank you for choosing this planet to stop at. I for one am so glad you did.
amazing teacher, here i thought we were just goofing off and BAM !!! I learned something. The man is a genius and funny as heck !!!
If only shop teachers in HS was this talented in teaching.
1:23 knowing how sloppy I am, I would cut and recut trying to compensate for my previous errors. In the end, that 3-inch cube would measure about 184 picometers across, which is roughly the diameter of an aluminium atom...
6:58 And i guess this is why you want to start with the largest face side, more room for adjustments?
Did you measure the chair to see if it came out level?
Bob Korves gonna need a larger surface plate
Should have just rotated the chair. Eventually all four legs would be touching and the wobble would be gone. I believe Numberphile showed the proof. Or maybe it was Mathologer... Who knows...
Must measure the floor first, then the chair. :)
Doesn't matter if it's level as long as the cats tail isn't caught.
I wish I watched this yesterday before struggling with this! Thanks for the great video.
....and here we are in 2023 and I am watching this video for about the 27th time. It NEVER gets old. Ever. I hope you and your brood are well, Old Tony. We miss you.