Saying Yes and No to Your D&D Players
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
- Do you have a hard time knowing when to say yes or no to your players? Find more DM advice at www.masterthedungeon.com/
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00:00 Saying Yes and No
00:30 Saying Yes
02:08 Saying No
#DungeonsAndDragons #DnD #Animatic 
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If they keep trying to climb that wall i think it doesn't hurt to turn to the other players and say "you just spent five minutes watching this person try to scale a sheer smooth wall with no handholds without gaining an inch. What are you up to?"
That’s good. I’ll remember that
Answer comes back: "What are you talking about watching were also trying it"
There is a reason why Matthew Mercer's "You can certainly try" phrase has become so popular. It's a wonderful way to encourage and threaten his party, depending on the context.
'Now you can say 'no' with math' in that delighted voice and that face got me. This was very helpful, thank you.
"Actions have consequences" is my second and perhaps most stringently enforced personal DM rule (the first being "Have Fun" and the third "The DM gets the final word.") If I have to break, bend, or ignore every other rule in every book ever put out under the D&D banner to enforce that one rule I not only can but will. Not for my own sadistic amusement mind you. Well, not ONLY for my own sadistic amusement. But to encourage my players to really think through what they are doing and help weed out the "I can do what I want" problem players.
Sure. You want to be the shifty, backstabbing rogue who steals from the party, purposely screws up delicate RP encounters and generally acts like a belligerent tool to everyone because "that's what your character/alignment would do?" Go right ahead. You're the player. You have free will. Be my guest. What you better not do is look all shocked and shaken when the rest of the characters find out or get sick of $#!+, beat you until you crap your own spine, and leave you in the path of that oncoming gnoll horde in your boxers and a butter knife.
As far as player requests go, my baseline standpoint I learned from an old Star Wars RPG book. If a player wants a ship that performs like the Millennium Falcon, give them a ship that performs like the Millennium Falcon...
...and has the same fussy reliability, insane maintenance schedule, and exorbitant upkeep cost as the Falcon.
I do not consider myself a cruel or malicious DM. But I do hold to the maxim that you should always be careful what you wish for. Because you might just get it. ;)
"beat you until you crap your own spine, and leave you in the path of that oncoming gnoll horde in your boxers and a butter knife"
Ohhh, sounds like there's a story there...
I had a player who kept trying to convince and NPC to climb up a cliff face to get higher ground. I kept explaining that it was a sheer cliff face covered in ice. Besides the ledge was at too steep of an incline, it was not a location anyone could easily stand on. Otherwise the Bandits would not have built their camp right under it. He kept insisting, while I had the NPC give him increasingly my sass, because that NPC did not want to break his neck, and this foreigner kept insisting that he should.
Finally I broke down the math for him. I explained the penalties for climbing the cliff face, and the penalties for maintaing balance on the icy ledge, and what would happen to the NPC if he failed. He seemed to get it. Then he made it clear he had not, whene he told me I was being inefficient with one of the enemies who could teleport, saying that they could have and should have teleported up to the Ledge and blasted them from a distance... The same ledge that would have killed a fairly athletic NPC, while this was a physically malformed witch... It was at that moment I finally realized I was talking to a high Int, low Wis individual.
This is by far the best advice on how to say “yes” or “no” thanks
"Rolling checks to say yes" has a caveat though. Never do that when you either need the party to succeed for narrative reasons or when a negative result would severely derail the session. In short, *if you can't afford your players to fail on a roll, don't let them roll*.
There's this type of awkward situation where you would've needed a roll to succeed for narrative reasons but they rolled a 1 anyway. Now you have to be like "yeah, you know... that works anyway" which will make them question the relevancy of every roll from now on. Rolling less often makes for a better game in these cases.
I rule it that outside of combat there's no auto success or auto fail. Makes it so that if I say they can't do something, they really can't.
Degrees of success is a really nice concept here.
For example, when the players inspect the wall for a naritively important door (which they have reason to believe is there), you may have them roll for investigation. If they roll a 1, the characters carefully take their time to find the door, but it's well hidden. It takes them about an hour to find.
Interesting questions then become: Were the players under time pressure? Would anything have changed by taking so long? Perhaps they made some noise the goblins inside could hear, and they've been preparing for the incursion: Can you make a group roll for stealth please, as you inspect the wall?
@@AdmiralStormy there is no auto fail at all except on attack rolls
It's just on a one without expertise the best result you can get is a 12 I suppose a barbarian could get a 14 on an Athletics
Thanks for the great advice master the dungeon as a dm for 5 years the difficult part of it is saying yes or no without offending the player since players can get a bit sensitive whenever there harm comes to their beloved characters even we have a 1 to 1 private talk.
I'm running a game for the first time in over half a year because life has been really hectic for all my players due to COVID. I really appreciate being able to just play one of your videos and brush up on these skills that I haven't used in a while. It helps me feel more prepared, and I'm grateful for that. Thank you for the wonderful animation and advice :)
We're so happy they've been helpful!
Wow, soothing music, good looking supporting artwork, a soft voice with clear explanations. Where are all the followers at? RUclips algorithm, do your thing!
Imma subscribe now
Primed for Role Playing rather than Roll Playing
eeeyyyy
You can also use "You can try"
I personally like "Is that what you think?"
You never say no. Even to stupid things. You just say "Are you sure?",. and watch the chaos unfold.
This is some of the best DM advice I've heard
Thank you for vieo - this one is going to become very helpful as I prep for my next D&D session!
Love when the mundane things I do go awry!
This is exactly the video I needed. Well done and well made wow
Love the vids! Always helpful to see a very newby friendly guide to some small details that can very easily enhance your tabletop experience. Keep it up!
(Also, I don't mean to impose, but I'd love to see a video about institutions, guilds or something of the genre! Making an organization FEEL present in people's lives seems like something you can always improve upon, and I'd love to know how to truly insert these larger ""entities"" in my worlds)
That's a great suggestion, we'll see what we can do!
There is also a time to say, "I haven't planned anything for that. Give my a moment"
I’ve been a DM for about 3 year and the goal that I’ve found works best for my group is to always allow player action to be meaningful. A success does something cool or important, and a failure is a chance for a joke, character interactions, or simply a success from a different perspective. My players love to have agency and I find saying, you can try, to everything is usually the best.
It can lead to some really interesting results. Like your players overthrowing the government... in the first game you dm'ed.
one of the ways I indicate that a chosen path is probably a no is by being open about the numbers. If they want to climb that wall of smooth glass, they need to hit a 30 on an acrobatics roll. The number should never be completely absurd (a 30 acrobatics is achievable by a mid-level rogue with expertise) but should be at the very edge of possibility. Most players will hear that number and start rethinking their course of action.
The DM had a railroaded christmas encounter that used Iceboxes that were portals to a frozen area. After that session the wizard, during our downtime, stayed and investigated the area since the iceboxes were all interconnected.
The DM allowed it and we basically had fast travel. Just hatd to convince the person grabbing cold alse to let a band of adventurers through an icebox into their tavern.
Love the video! Personally, I think you shouldn't let the players roll for anything you would say no to. If you let them roll, you encourage them to do it. Just my opinion.
This channel needs more sub's, hope you get verified soon!!
"Do you have anything in your backpack that can help you climb the wall?"
I figured it out: you have the exact voice of those animated Ted-Ed videos.
I like this a lot because I'm really bad at describing things to players, so showing the world instead of saying yes or no is really great practice
3:15 dungeoners pack, hammer, pitons and rope
I like Mercer's "you can certainly try" when one of his players wants to try something clearly crazy but that isn't an outright no. It's a clear signal that they can try, but guys this is so dumb! Sometimes they come up with a better idea, often they try anyway, and sometimes it works!
My spine shivers any time a DM utters the words "you can certainly try"...
Your channel is awesome. I have a DMing playlist and your videos are the biggest percentage of any individual channel
A long time ago, I was running a module and the players left the map, following a side-corridor that led nowhere important. I let them explore for a little while before they came upon a small cave pond. "There are several small red fish in there," I told them. "They look sorta like herrings."
Gave them a literal red herring to let them know this area was not part of their current goals, and this became a running feature of campaigns in my group. When the party takes off after something irrelevant to our current goals, the DM runs with it for a bit, then has the party find more of the little red fish, either literally in a pond, stream, or fishbowl; or sometimes a carving, statuette, drawing, or other such indication.
That way the party can return to their old course of action if they like, or pursue the new one. Or even complete the old course of action and come back to this later. Which they do is up to them.
I wish I could play in your game!!!! I have NEVER been disappointed with one of your videos.
Most of the time when I restate what they wanted to do the exact way they said it they get nervous like they just asked a genie for a wish and have to consider the wording.
Good introductory stuff. I'd have preferred you over how to be a great DM when I was getting started but you weren't around.
Welcome to the (scene?) I guess? And good luck.
I like how one of your players is playing Sokka.
I really like this video. I'd never thought about it that way but on some level everything I do as a DM is somewhere between saying yes and saying no. I try to be open to letting my players do powerful things because I want them to have fun but I also have to take responsibility for a cohesive narrative so its all about gently steering them towards the things I was hoping to say yes to in the first place like the NPC and encounters I spent time planning for in advance. Although, I'm a very improvisational DM so some people may feel the need to say no more than I do.
My players expect that I as a DM already have a story planned out, so they do most things in the most expected way (find a clue or hear gossip and go that way). How can I get my players to choose more their own path? I like it when the party surprises me and I get challenged.
Consider trying to open the world a bit more. Let players hunt for their own clues, by going where they think the clues might be. If that stumps them and they need the direction, well, you know what they say about horses and water.
I love the drawings. They are great!
Here's a hint I learned as a player to enjoy:
"Giving it a look, the wall might appear climbable with a 15, but with the guards that you hear lurking at the top, it could easily become a 20 or 25" this approach was great for my strategists, as it gave them an expert insight into a situation.
I had a party that (mostly at the behest of one problem player) decided that they were going to "adopt" an NPC who, after their first encounter, did not like them, had no interest in the party's missions, and was philosophically unaligned (she was a teacher at a mage school, they were basically hired muscle and borderline criminals). I tried to make it clear that they could try, the odds were stacked against them, but it was their game to run amok in so long as they were ok with the consequences of their actions. Additionally, behind the scenes, I didn't want to give them access to what would essentially be a powerful 6th-level DMPC at level 3. She was never going to actually join the party, but could have been an excellent ally.
However, the problem player who proposed this in the first place (and who's outrageous in-character behavior was the reason the NPC had a negative opinion of the party already) was _extremely_ insistent, dragging the other PCs along and forcing the issue at every opportunity, even trying to involve the NPC in unrelated quest objectives. He approached me ooc, asking why it was so hard to persuade her (and I told him the same things I had given them in-game), and accused me of making it impossible to spite them (read: spite _him)._
Eventually the developed a hairbrained scheme to _frame her as an accomplice for crimes they were committing_ in order to gaslight and blackmail her into traveling with them. Only one of the players seemed to pick up on my bemused exasperation that this was likely to backfire horribly in twenty different ways and spoke up against it, only to be disregarded.
The campaign fell apart because of that problem player developing further issues with me and deleting the Discord server we were hosting it on, and we're not friends anymore, but honestly... as a DM you need to be able to say no, and as a player you need to occasionally be able to take no for an answer.
Your problem was not a Yes or Not problem your problem was the PROBLEMATIC PLAYER problem.
I'd totally be that player btw, what with my narcissism and ego, that's why I became a DM.
With bardic inspiration expertise as a level 20 barbarian with guidance assuming Max rolls you could get over a 50
UH! Just say a plain and simple YES, for goodness' sake!
"you can try X" is the best thing to say
One of Matt Mercer's many catchphrases is "you can certainly try!"
I was told to go with the rule of "Yes and" which I picked up from some friends who took drama / theatre. Basically it's an improvisational tip where, whenever someone takes the story in a new or unexpected direction, instead of being scared of the change as a DM it's your duty not to shut them down and allow them to have their creative freedom and initiative. Don't prevent your players from doing unexpected things, instead allow it to happen but introduce twists on what they said which maybe prevent them from getting exactly what they wanted, or at least from getting too far from the story.
For example; In my last session my players got super fixated with a passing NPC that I literally only had a name for. Instead of trying to move the party on with the story, I allowed them to indulge themselves, and ended up incorporating that NPC into the main story as a way of bridging both the party's and my own interests.
The result was (what I think was) a fun adventure that neither me nor my players fully anticipated, but all of us contributed to.
This is amazing advice!
My players once skinned a doppleganger who did literallynothing to them. When they said "now we want to dump him into a vat of sault," it was time to say no 😅
Are you really sure you want to try that?
"Yes!"
OK.. roll D% to see how badly it fails.
This. THIS is what’s needed.
A side note, if something is going to have consequences, make sure that the consequences are balanced for the challenge that the players obsess over. Something like imposing didadvantage on all attack rolls and slight of hand checks to your monk because they broke their hands trying for a long... *long* time to punch their way through solid rock can really hammer home the consequences and isn't an injury that you have to allow a single healing spell or potion fix.
Plus these kinds of consequences can be amazing fun and group lore later down the line as long as they are done in good fun and everyone feels the fairness to them... we now have lines like "I insight check the Bush!" Or "Beware the Duck Suckler" as callbacks to wonderful learning experiences...
Also, "do you lick this too?" is one a player has a problem saying no to... I think we need an intervention for them...
I have run into situations where the has to be a hard absolutely not no never. situations that make myself or other members of the party feel uncomfortable or unsafe. I think all the DMS should have safety systems and consent forms before any games are ever played
The best way to say 'no' is to ask them in *that voice* "Are you sure you want to try that?"
These are all great tips, but also important is, during "session zero" simply state, "Sometimes you will ask to do something, and I will say no. You will just need to be okay with that." Anyone not okay with that leaves the table.
I don't know, i said subtle no to climbing the wall, but if i asked for a roll and it is a 20 i would just say "well you try to climb the wall and suddenly a fissure ate the wall and you could just jump over". But if it is a 1 i would say "okay, absorb damage because a piece of slate is going to fall over you"
This is such good advice.
if i were to be a DM
no one would play with me because when i say “go for it”, that means i like to watch them fail for 30 seconds to 30 minutes
Only seen a handful of your content, and I would already love you as a Player or GM. 😶👍
Oh hey never been this early
Who does your art for the videos??
Algorithmic punch
What is that melody I hear? Its glorious. 😁
A great lesson from Improv Acting is the concept of “yes and..” instead of ever saying “no”. Similarly to Improv, saying “no” in D&D puts the brakes, monetarily or longer, on the players’ creative thinking. “Can I climb that slick, wet wall?” “Yes, and with a nat 20 you might not slip off and fall. Getting a climbing kit and pitons, or waiting until the rain dries up, will lower that DC. Do you still want to try it, or get better prepared and come back?”
Great video
Over the years I've kinda defaulted to just allowing anything cause I have a player that will threaten to meta-game and ruin the narrative every time i told them a bold *no*.
As you can guess this has lead to countless ruined games
Sounds like you need to ditch that player, honestly
Sounds like a greater enraged owlbear needs to charge out of the bushes every time that player does that
sometimes it is good to back up the player's action a little so they don't run directly into a trap, of course they can still blindly walk
"I climb the wall into the fortress"
'You notice when approaching the wall of the active fortress that the wall is composed of vertical blades and loose rusted barbed wire and spans a height of 50 feet'
"I continue to climb the wall"
'now inches away you see no clear way to get a hold on the wall without cutting up your hands'
"I wrap hands in cloth and climb wall"
'the cloth protects your hands from the wire, but the wire itself begins straining as you stand on it, making tremendous noise as it grinds across the blades'
"I climb the wall"
'you hear guards shuffling behind the wall as the wire begins to tear out of its supports and snap'
from here they either back down or continue, then you can either let them get to the top and face guards while being half tangled in barbed wire, or you can break the wire causing them to fall and take some minor damage, reattempting the climb requires a roll to find a climbing spot or could be denied as there are none left
This literally happened to me just yesterday. Myself and one other player were in a game where we have mechs to pilot for combat, think like power armor from Fallout. So I'm in this basic mech that is basically just a frame but with powered up arms for combat, while fighting off against someone in near military grade armoring, explosives and auto firing weapons, and my other party member... just standing beside me. This fight was *just* supposed to be a training fight to get the character used to fighting with the mech so the opponent didn't really take that many offensive measures and just let me try to wail on them while they dodged every so often to make it harder. My teammate just took a blunt object and said they wanted to attack. It was made very clear that the DM was hinting at "the military grade armor looks too durable for a mere monkey wrench to deal any noticeable damage" and whatnot, but that player just kept saying "but can I try anyway?". Ugh. DM allowed it, they rolled to hit and did hit, but DM ruled it didn't do any damage because it was too tough. That player got very upset at this. Was the DM in the wrong or was the player being annoying with not taking the word of the DM?
A little bit of both. It seems that the player had one thing on their mind and didn't want to deviate. This is the perfect time for a DM to just say no, that won't work.
@@masterthedungeon6094 What felt worse is that *I*, the player, was telling him no in character since I was in the mech, yeah? But our DM still let them do it anyway since I wasn't in charge.
One thing this doesn't cover that i think is worth mentioning is if a player crosses a preset boundary or makes another player uncomfortable. In a case like this, the show definitely should not go on, and that scene needs to be stopped, skipped, or retconned, and that player needs to be talked to or even removed from the game if it is dire. Being in the game is never more important than being safe, and it's a shared experience, after all!
As a DM, I like to be that sadistic trickster god that lets them do what they want at their own discretion. If they ask "Can I jump down this obviously massive cliff?", I tell them to jump and find out. I like to let my players discover the consequences of their own actions in a relaistic real-world fashion - without the direct advice of an all-knowing god.
(Opligies for the bad grammer)I never knew how lenent I was as a dm till I left my toxic group of players who would threatan and manipulate me and never throwing me a bone never letting the villains talk EVER and getting that extra round of attacks and would get angry when bad things happen mind you bad things that could have been avoided if they had just listened to the villain they would even say things like "if you kill this character i like I will do this very bad thing" they would get mad when villains lie even tho they lie far more and lose it when rng kills a player i still remember it like yesterday when they where given a gotcha pond system with 100 items I told them in world that there are items that give you nine lives or give them another attack action but at the same time there are items that can insta kill you if you get them or use them wrong they agree to this one player gets a 1 a freaking one and gets the back seed witch spawns a being made of malice blood and metal that hunts that character down till that player is dead, that enemy will ignore everything in favor for killing them the player in question dabs to it and I roll high and murder them the mind you before that creature did anything the other players said they would just watch and do nothing when the creature murders them they fuse themselves with there remains and becomes a homebrew race of mines called a newborn witch is a being with no memory who can pull weapons from there exposed skin and fly between dimensions(teleportation and flight in dnd) and the other players lost it and one even said"your not aloud to murder someone in the first 5 sessions" the session ended with evreyone chewing me out and the one player that died cheering me up and stopping me from crying saying they love the new character and abilities.in My recent group one player did a stupid plan witch would of undoubtedly kill then if they failed spoiler alert they failed mind you I had warned them success was not likely evreyone in the group was watching said it wasn't gonna work but awesome if it did, (i might talk about that story later but its to long to post rn) the plan didn't work and the player died leaving the rest of the group some good character development, i remember almost crying and apologizing since there character died and that ill do better as a dm.the dead player responded "with what are you talking about this was one of the funnest sessions I've had.i was doing something I obviously would have died if I failed im not gonna be mad if I failed", one of the players who didn't do anything that session complemented me and the dead player on how good we where with keeping it funny while keeping suspense and I responded "with so your not gonna yell at me?" And the players hearing this got them angry and started shit talking my past group and saying how those group of scumbags didn't deserve me, needless to say im in a much happier place.
To be fair the best moments happen after saying no and they do it anyway... Ask need to your self what is the harm? Like I had a player want to talk their way into marrying into a royal household to get a small kingdom to evetully gain controll over the larger kingdom... The issue is Slimes do not work that way... But the players really wanted to try... and I set an insanly high bar setting the scene 3 times! Each higher and higher untill me and the slime had a Crit off! And they won! they got in... And that was a key point in the campaign they could have done other it other ways but no they did it the hard way... I did justify in the story and each roll had a cutscene explaining it... Still it was pretty epic... Still I do know how to say no but I normally do it for rule judging and I jyet done it for story but then again I have limited expernce GMing or playing outside of solo ghames so yeah.
YOOOO THERE'S A WEBSITE
About railroading:
I do want to, at some point, literally railroad my players. Not in the D&D definition of railroading, but I want them to have to hijack a train semi-realistically, or just have to deal with a realistic train. Being a railfan and actually knowing train operations and procedures, I might be able to screw with my players a bit.
Player: Can I jump that gap? pointing at a ravine that is like 50 ft wide
DM: Well with a run up of 50ft you can jump your strength score. What do you think?
Player: My strength is 15 ... but if I REALLY try?
DM: I'd allow you to roll a strength check. If you roll higher than 15 you can take your roll for the distance you jump. But I don't think...
*Player already rolling.... Nat 1
DM You stumble while running up to the ravine and fall flat onto your nose. Take 1d4 ---rolling--- 2 damage. You feel lucky that fate prevented you from trying that jump as it surelywould have been fatal to fail and fall into that ravine.
Player: Can I try again?
...
...
...
DM: Yeah, try again please.
are you telling us to allow our players to make a nuke?
Can I add that I feel even if a player does something that you warn them against doing and they want to roll anyway. If they manage a nat 20, you as DM try to describe how even if what they did was not the best plan somehow you through sheer luck either climb out of the pit or hit the enemies weak spot or in the very very overused example the bard used vicious mockery to tell the king of his crimes against his people. *Rolls nat 20*.... The king takes 1d4 psychic damage but is also bemused by your your honesty and cutzpah and makes you his court jesters. You may now have discourse with the king with +5 to charisma checks when interacting with the king. I mean I know you shouldn't necessarily reward attempts like that but in some cases a nat 20 should be like a "these aren't the droids your looking for" situation. But like i said if they fail with a 19 or less on a dumb decision. Yeah maybe they get a month in the dungeon and each PC loses a skill point or XP. That way a little believability stays in the game but even the non brightest PC ideas has a chance of somehow working out.
"You can certainly try"