I just want to say that the dedication you show in doing these experiments to prove how the system works is mind-blowing. Excellent job as always man. The game is way too complicated in an annoying and unnecessary way in my opinion, and your efforts really do make a difference for us when it comes to understanding the game mechanics. Keep em coming!
I have been trying to create builds using shadow dmg this entire season and I cant thank you enough for figuring this out! You did a truly excellent job testing and presenting this discovery!
Just wanted to drop a comment to say that Blizzard says they'll fix this on the patch releasing on Oct 17th. "Terror: Now applies to your Shadow damage, rather than Darkness skills. The first bonus now applies to Chilled enemies, and its second bonus applies to Frozen enemies."
This is great news to know considering I'm using a blight core skill Necro with decay and blighted aspect. Terror def procs for me since I'm slowing and corpse tendrils stuns simultaneously. Clearing nightmares 40 levels above me at only level 70. Hopefully I can get a video of the build up soon. You're def my go to Necro guy! Thanks!
Playing a shadow Sever build and I'm almost always blood mist -> tendril -> decrepify -> spam sever, looks like this one didn't affect me so much luckily
I would love a breakdown of how useful the "Each time your shadowblight triggers it increases the next trigger by 50%" or whatever it is aspect. Seems good but the base damage on the proc just seems so bad it's not worth scaling.
Agreed. Putting on the blighted aspect on my amulet seems to be the smart choice if you're running a 1H weapon as opposed to a 2H. And I have the decay aspect on my 1H. Correct me if I'm wrong on this setup
I read that a lot but I've never seen any numbers to support that claim. How can something with 22% base damage that triggers only on every 10th hit be "the biggest contribution of shadow damage"?
@@flowqi212you can literally watch the shadow damage creep up every tick. I ran infinimist in preseason, I’d watch the shadow blight ticks go from 200k to 800k in 3 seconds. It’s just about necessary on any blight focused build. You can also have multiple sources of shadow damage adding to the ticks and increase attack speed, stacking and making those 10 ticks happen even faster.
@@Spasaymoostard interesting, I'd love to see a full breakdown off shadowblight at some point. I usually have the feeling only fat boss monsters would ever see a 2nd or 3rd tick. If your first tick is 200k the rest of your damage must be already so high that no mob would survive your first sever attack right? 😅
Was thinking about remaking a shadow necromancer after i finish building my blood surge. With the autocast of corpse tendril and explosion, i was thinking taking decompose instead of reap for the build to increase mono target damage. As previous skills are on autocast it will be just a maintain decompose and cast iron maiden every 10 seconds on big boss. So terror will work on corpse explo + bone storm + decompose on staggered boss
Interesting discovery. Never played a shadow build myself, but! I will use this info to vendor all the Terror amulets that I accumulated whilst trade is disabled, lol.
@@ms3862depends on the build. If you’re running a core skill you might run attack speed while healthy passive, you might run the distant damage increase multiplier, you could spend some extra points towards decrepify ranks/corpse explosion ranks/blood mist ranks depends on what gear you have currently.
@@ms3862 It depends on the build but you have several options. You can choose talents to make your minions stronger, reduce cd of blood mist or bone prison, etc.
The convoluted way things work together and don't, the weird mechanics, and the overabundance of weird stat modifiers are some of the many reasons I quit D4 Still watching Macs videos though. Hope you continue making content in other games, I really enjoy your style.
Great video. During the end of my 1-50 leveling, I remember going back and trying to max out corpse explosion. It seemed like that's when I started breaking down mobs much more quickly, so that must have been the damage stack from Terror starting to work more properly.
Fantastic vid, I was just venting about how they have aspects for, but no stand alone darkness ultimate. Now, I can say that for key passives as well 😅
I know I kind of started a convo about this on the last vid. Thanks for the detailed response. Interestingly I'm running a build with no crit, no Mendeln, no vulnerability that actually does rely on the legit darkness skills (blight, ce, and shadow version of bloodwave) so I think I'm getting reasonable value out of it. The problems you addressed are still relevant, though.
@@Ligh7Bulb highest I've gotten was tier 98. It was not easy, though, 90+ are very hard but doable. The minions in the build are only for utility and have no damage bonuses. The minions have high attack speed for generating cc, essence and corpses. All damage bonuses are for shadow and mostly shadow DOT .
Looks like I'm doing something similar but without minions so I'm running full sacrifice with same setup with howl from below. What's your rotation setup looking right now in fights and what are you using for your main single target damage? I feel like Blight is great for DOT once the paragon board is fully set up (I'm not there yet lol)
The same thing exists for druid. There is two non natural magic skills that can be made to trigger a random natural magic skill. So people keep recommending to put build into a naturalist build. However only one of them actually also *becomes* a natural magic skill and not just *triggers* one. Same implications apply, some rather important things (like faster cooldown reduction by doing kills) that do work with all natural magic skills, won't work with poison creeper but do work with trample. So in fact poison creeper is a false advise for a naturalist and people keep giving it because they dont look out for that small detail of the skll tag.
This is the good shit I follow for. Your methodology for this testing was spot-on. I'm usually a Blood Necro fella but i was toying with Blighted Aspect for global damage (underneath Overpower) for a summoner build and this saves some points.
Hey MacroBioBoi, I'm really really curious about your take about Black River on a pure mist / shadow dot necro, is it worth using or would I be better with a wand? And ofc, thanks for everything you do for us who love the class
In pure AOE black river it is fantastic. As soon as you need to attack a single target wand trumps it. Black river unfortunately makes it so the corpses used make the ticking dmg act as a single corpse unless this has changed since my vacation
Can you do Black River next? I always argue with my friends that this unique is not functioning very well as intended. It says "Corpse Explosion consumes up to 4 additional Corpses around the initial Corpse, dealing [X%] increased damage and with a [X%] larger radius per additional Corpse." My argument is, everytime your in a battle and using Corpse Explotion, may it be manually popping them or thru the Blood Mist aspect. I'm thinking that your exploding corpses faster than your skills could produce them, so getting the max (4 extra corpses around the primary corpse) bonus from this unique is kinda hard. Are we supposed to like hold on and wait first till we have 5 or more corpses first before we pop them? I think they should just change them into something like "Every 5th corpse that you explode deals [X%] increased damage and [+%] increased explosion radius."
Yeah, i noticed shadow dmg from blood mist doesn't make shadowblight stack but maybe they just need to fix blood mist so it becomes a darkness skill with that aspect and fix minion shadow dmg. You can get another stun with the "every 20 seconds stun 5+ enemies" aspect..........i just have hope that they add more skills and passives so you can have a shadow build that doesn't rely on dmg over time and a druid that doesn't rely on bear and wolf form.
@macrobioboi to your last comment in the vid - i would be super interested in whether there are any interactions between the barber proc being shadow damage (i think) and either skill or paragon choices we could make to supercharge those interactions. like, if the barber does shadow damage, does that interact with glyphs? anything special from the wither board? seems like there should be interactions there we can min/max, but i dont have the time to test it.
this Is very interesting, i used your base for my necro Sever build. with 9 sever and 11 corpse i did not kill Lilith yet.....i think lack of mobility and not consistent damage has me there, but i could use those skill points for move speed passive. Thanks
Necromancer is my least favorite class but i subscribed to you MacroBioBoi because what you do, you are the only one in the youtube community thay does it and explains it THAT good! Because of you i will someday find a Necromancer build that I will love !!
What else are you going to put the pts in that would increase your damage when you already have maxed everything else that adds damage? is corpse explosion damage just inconsequential now? I personally have maxed CE and I am geared to maximize the damage from it while benefitting from the nearly all of the same buffs that help shadowblight and bonestorm (shadow). How would I be better served?
Eh. I was curious and had collected a nearly full outfit of shadow/minion gear so I switched from solo bl lance to minion & Shadow blight now at lvl 85. With barber, not the minion wrathful heart. It's, it's not nearly as powerful as bl lance and even though my hit points are fairly high, I'm like complete toilet paper compared to my tanky bl lance build. Less dmg, less survivability, less movement speed, less attacking to do, and get one-shot by crossbows and ghosts on only 10 lvl higher nightmares.... like wtf? I'm gonna try the other wrathful, the minion Xtra DMG one that eats essence just to see if maybe it helps the build out instead of barber. But I already switched gear, gems, hearts, paragon, skills, everything. I'm following the latest macrobioboi build for it. I'll be on day three of testing tomorrow, but so far I love the minion and shadow play style and minions not dying immediately from aura bosses IS nice now, but it's still garbage bag level play compared to just about any solo/sacrifice Necro build. I'll fool with it a little more, but it's pretty clear to me I'll be going back to lance. This video just shines more light on my plight. Also, with my current setup, maybe it's the barbers fault, but everything that gets tendril'd in a heap, even bosses, dies very fast in a rush of numbers and explosions. Everything else, stragglers, ranged mobs, bosses on the fringe, they take forever to kill. It's like if the mobs aren't in the initial tendril heap, they miss the big damage output and end up staying alive another minute while my minions hit them pointlessly for no damage. Just pathetic
It's honestly debatable if I need terror or even max level CE on my infinimist since basically all damage comes from shadowblight procs anyway. Problem is...the skill tree is so shallow that there's really no where else to put the points. Decrepify scales so slowly the increase to DR is meaningless. I just put the points in terror regardless of the shadow build because why not
The aspect that stuns enemies every 10-15 for 3 seconds works pretty well with terror for me right now. I swear it feels like this stun aspect procks much quicker then it says.
I think there is a common misconception that any damage is "Skill" damage. It's not. Shadowblight is not a "Skill" it is a passive. So anything that reads "Darkness skills do x damage" would not affect Shadowblight. Skills are only actual items you can throw onto your action bar. The same reason why corpses from [Hewed flesh] do not fortify you if you have [Necrotic carapace]. Hewed flesh is not a skill and Necrotic carapace says corpses from skills and minions. Thinking about things in this way should help avoid a lot of confusion
It being logical, does not mean it should be that way. Hewed Flesh should absolutely trigger Necrotic Carapace. Shadowblight, one of the biggest sources of damage on Shadow builds, should probably benefit from both Terror and Gloom, the game two passives meant to increase Shadow Damage.
thats why i use blight, to apply slow at range in enemies pulled by tendrils. blight also helps to apply 15% extra dmg to bosses. by the way, the volatile skeleton that comes from the gloves benefits of bone spirit skill dmg?
The craziest bit of it to me is the last line. "These bonuses stack and apply to SHADOW DAMAGE DEALT BY YOUR MINIONS" The minions who aren't a Darkness skill... Wtf is with this passive?!
Hey Macro! I want to play necro after leveling my wiz and rogue to 100 since its my favourite class. What would you play for leveling, 50-100 and then for high nm push? Or is it just bone spear all the way? I ask you because I have seen that many of your recent builds are not on maxroll. Thanks in advance
People only use Shadowblight for the aspect that gets you 120% bonus dmg once it hits 10x though. Would have been interesting to see you address it in the video, test the mechanics of this, etc. On another note, the main build involving all of those skills (blighted corpse explosion + corpse tendrils + bone storm + decrepit aura) puts you in the middle of packs, so you constantly have both bonuses from terror (slow from Decrepify aura and stun from corpse tendrils, pulling everything on you for blighted corpse explosion and 'shadow' bone storm to hit). So, I'm curious to know what other 'shadow build' uses those skill and actually play in a way that doesn't trigger Terror. Keep up the good work fellow Qcer.
I'm actually in the minority of people who prioritize the dot damage of darkness skills on Infinimist. Most other people only prioritize the Shadowblight proc damage. It is not an accurate statement that people only care to trigger Blighted aspect, with the key passive. Shadowblight is upwards of 50% of your total damage output.
Another great video! I appreciate your in-depth insights into the convoluted mysteries of the Necromancer. I am always looking forward to your next video, especially Shadow, Blood, and Minion builds. Have you tried testing the Heart of the Great Feast since Patch 1.1.2? In the patch notes say they changed the damage from additive to multiplicative. Do you think the Great Feast buff will bring it to parity with The Barber, or close at least?
Do you know if the Barber heart damage is shadow? I’ve seen online where is speculated to be shadow damage. If so it should scale with our skills correct?
I just noticed (after watching this vid) my bonestorm did not have the darkness tag despite having the aspect equipped. I had to unequip the item and re-equip it for the tag to attach to bonestorm. Do you know if this is a tooltip bug or is the darkness tag not applying unless I re-equip the item every time?
My guide always relied on DOT damage from skills so Terror is valuable on that build. But you should never take +skills to Terror on amulet and instead get +skills to Gloom which I already recommend.
I use Iron golem with the Vulnerable stun and Decrepify to basically have that stun up most of the time. I refuse to use Corpse Tendrils. Small mobs in groups are stunned 75% of their lives between the natural 10s CD on the golem and the curse cd reduction.
Do you know if Blood Mist triggering the Aspect of Explosive Mist to trigger Blighted Corpse Explosion would count as a Darkness skill for Terror? Or would you expect that Terror ignores these? Thanks for your great work!
Regarding lidless wall. Can I buff it's damage with bone stats but then change the damage with this aspect. Will I still do the added bone damage even though it's converted to shadow??
So if I have on the aspect that makes bonestorm a darkness skill and do shadow damage then get a roll on my chest armor + shadow damage would that add damage to the bones storm?
What do you think about using a well rolled pair of Fists of Fate? IMO they work REALLY well with a barber build, as it gives you time for multiple hits, and the more you hit with those gloves, the more likely you are end up dealing way more damage. In addition the lucky hit effects help proc Terror (and the DoT Heart) effects.
@MacroBioBoi Due to a lack of good rolls, or because of the effect itself not being good? I mean, howl from below have lucky hit on them which is nice, and sometimes you can carry corpses forward, but they don't have as useful lucky hits and don't give any damage boost to shadowblight
@@kolai1987 I have a long winded answer but I'd rather have an aspect that always increases my skills damage, than one that sometimes does better than a normal aspect, and some times does
The main reason I watched this video was that I thought you were saying that Shadowblight isn't shadow. I realize it's a passive instead of a skill which was the point of your statement. Not a big surprise. The Terror is supposed to give a 9 percent buff at 3 points to at least one or the other situation. That's fine. If they aren't stacking for 18% you're at least getting 9% almost all the time. It's on par with other damage buffs for dot. I've taken theory crafting to a completely different level by organizing percentage tiers. For example magic nodes that are too far to be boosted by glyphs will have a similar contribution to corresponding affixes from rings and one hand weapons. There's a long list. Anyway, the one thing I'm not sure on is the paranormal blight rune from the actual "blight" skill. I've seen shadow necromancer builds put a point in "blight" and then choose "paranormal blight" even if they don't have this skill set to a button. They are saying that the 15% boost to "blight" pools will multiply into "Blighted Corpse Explosion" shadow pools. Unless Blizzard has acknowledged this I am inclined to believe the 3 points into the "Blight" branch are wasted. It's not the same skill nor is "Blight" skill being used in combat. Have you looked into this?
Yes, Kalan's edict is a laughable passive. You get 21% minion attack speed from any ol' affix and up to 84% from a certain aspect. The 30% would be bad even if it didn't have a ridiculous condition.
Any idea why my shadowblight key passive bonus shows 0% ? I'm using bonestorm and shadow mages, but my bonus never goes above 0%. I've tried to keep my skill tree open during battles to monitor it, but it never changes. What exactly procs the bonus?
hey man, have a question. after finding what you found for the key passive. which would be better damage wise for a summoner build with all minions including golem. Darkness based or blood based?
take into account that most builds use barber, so is barber dmg, shadow dmg? if it is, is it darkness skill dmg? i dont think terror apply to barber at all
@@MacroBioBoi I can only fit one in my build. I want to see which one gives more dps: the 5 stacks of shadowblight or 6 seconds of increased dmg. I'll probably make 2 rings and try to see a difference
@@x3r9g6That is not enough context for me to give you advice. What build, what skill point distribution etc. Do you do any damage other than Shadowblight that's relevant etc.
This is random question and thought, but terror does increase minion damage if they deal shadow. When ring of Mendeln procs with shadow mages is that damage increase applied for your ring proc? Does that even make sense?
Confusing. I got a 85 darkness necro and all I got from this is terror isn't good for bosses? Shadow blight is not a darkness skill but darkness skill apply shadow blight... yaaaa
can someone tell me if the Wither node on the paragon board just deals extra damage on a corpse explosion tic, or does it deal a separate instance of damage altogether?
So terror is still good for PvP. I don't use blood-soaked aspect meaning the only thing it would not work on is shadowblight which isn't the bulk of my damage anyways.
Nice catch , its word play that I never thought of, my logical mind reads darkness and since shadow is dark I asumed they were pretty much the same thing but they are not lol
Great video! I have been watching y our shadow necro builds with interest, and I have a question. Doesn't the barber hurt your ability to reduce the cooldown of your abilities by taking away lots of your little hits and rolling them up? Wouldn't it be better to use the DoT gem, or even the flat 100%x damage gem (for DoT/SB builds)? Edit: I switched off barber and it does help reset the cooldown of mist much better. The damage is still really good, even if you don't get those D2 style corpse explosion chains from barber detonating. My problem going into tier 70-90 dungeons is that if I get caught outside of mist its almost a guaranteed one shot from all those deadly ranged monsters like corpsebows.
@MacroBioBoi So even when you deal no damage with a hit it will proc decrepify cooldown reduction? Wasn't sure if that still worked with abhorrents unusual lucky hit mechanics.
@@MacroBioBoi Yes, but if you would have hit an enemy 10 times with their own abhorrent decripfy proc chances and instead that is bundled up and delivered as one "hit", it absolutely would effect how much you reduce cooldowns. The only question is whether the hits during the Barber window count or not. We've seen issues with this type of thing before (with shielding bone storm), which is why I was asking. My anecdotal observation that wasn't very rigorous was that my cooldown seemed to reset fully more often and versus fewer targets than what I experienced using the barber
Youre vastly underestimating how often targets are stunned from Decrepify. On my inifinimist summoner, targets are stunned near constantly as I have high lucky hit, and staggering bosses because of that takes probably 10s if that.
None of my increases to shadow damage and shadow dot from gear and paragon nodes show on the description for blighted corpse explosion in the skill tree. Is this normal?
Can u please help me, the aspect that says "BoneStorm generate 5% health", my question is of I put Barrier Generation on my build tru afixes does that increase the health I generate during bonestorm? I play on console an can't look at how much Barrier I have. I've seen others on computer be able to hover over the Barrier an Health an it tells them how much of each they have. Can u please test this for me so I can see if I'm building dead stats. Thanks.
@MacroBioBoi what about the new wither node? Is it worth it when I got 650 willpower.... I run a medlen shadow build an I wanna get this. I'm at the end game lvl 91 with 6 glyphs an I can reach it with my finally points, I'm just worried it won't help as much.
Do you know how the Bone Prison Mendeln interaction works with the minions? I know it's based off of your damage but I'm not sure how you increase that damage.
Good work, but for me it was very clear that it isnt a Darkness or even a Skill at all. It works just like a Dmg proc on a legendary item, its just Dmg.
Terror being worth considerably less than face value doesn't mean they are worthless, you just need to figure out if there is another 3 points that would be worth more to you.
Is shadowblight localized? Can it trigger at a range is what I'm getting at. Figure deaths reach might be a good substitute. Only dmg modifier I don't have points in that would help for shadow.
@MrToomuchfunk I have yet to have it drop. But I'm not sure I'd want to use it now anyway. 816 focus with decent stats with near perfect rolls last night. Also not sure what legendary affix I'd be willing to part with.
Where it makes sense, they will be. It still works for your darkness skill's damage so it's not useless. It's just not as valuable as previously thought by many people.
Great video with good calculations but doesnt the description for terror say it applies and stacks to shadow damage of your minions? So a lot of the explanations help me with making builds myself and how to calculate but I saw you only testing your damage and not that of your minions
@@MacroBioBoi First let me thank you for responding to my question. This is one of the first in depth Diablo 4 calculations which I have seen that explain in a calm and clear manner how the damage calculations are done and how you create a situation where you do proc all amplifiers to optimalize your damage. The thing I dont understand is why you take terror as an example. Isnt this only linked to shadow damage done by your minions? around 5:00 you talk about this for a first time. At the testing 8:10 you talk about terror that it doesnt do additional damage but you dont use any minions to do the damage? So how could it potentially proc anything like shadowblight or give you extra damage if you dont meet the requirements for it? This has me confused a bit. Am i misunderstanding the explanation or am I misunderstanding the passive? Sorry for the long post and keep up the good work : )
@@iTzJonko it doesn't only apply to minion damage. It ALSO applies to minion damage. What it doesn't apply to for the necromancer is sources of shadow damage that are NOT Darkness Skills. Hence why it doesn't apply to Shadowblight, the Shadow Necro's most important source of Shadow Damage.
I’m on level 47 necromancies with Iron Maiden, blight, blighted corpse explosion, corpse tendrils, iron golem, and reap. I’m on the more difficult level of game play the game will allow. The game is wayyyy to easy with this build. I could probably just close my eyes and push buttons.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I just want to say that the dedication you show in doing these experiments to prove how the system works is mind-blowing. Excellent job as always man. The game is way too complicated in an annoying and unnecessary way in my opinion, and your efforts really do make a difference for us when it comes to understanding the game mechanics. Keep em coming!
Me: clicks on video with INTENSE curiosity
I love my shadow Necromancer and really appreciate the work you put in so we can understand more about how everything works. Thank you
I have been trying to create builds using shadow dmg this entire season and I cant thank you enough for figuring this out! You did a truly excellent job testing and presenting this discovery!
Just wanted to drop a comment to say that Blizzard says they'll fix this on the patch releasing on Oct 17th. "Terror: Now applies to your Shadow damage, rather than Darkness skills.
The first bonus now applies to Chilled enemies, and its second bonus applies to Frozen enemies."
This must be why I seem to feel more power out of the attack speed buff more than Shadowblight.
This is great news to know considering I'm using a blight core skill Necro with decay and blighted aspect. Terror def procs for me since I'm slowing and corpse tendrils stuns simultaneously. Clearing nightmares 40 levels above me at only level 70. Hopefully I can get a video of the build up soon. You're def my go to Necro guy! Thanks!
Playing a shadow Sever build and I'm almost always blood mist -> tendril -> decrepify -> spam sever, looks like this one didn't affect me so much luckily
NICE, I'm using blight also, it's crazy when you use shadow DMG over time buffs and Paragon
Good to know! The build I'm using is working with this effect well, but i see where most builds its a wasted stat.
I would love a breakdown of how useful the "Each time your shadowblight triggers it increases the next trigger by 50%" or whatever it is aspect. Seems good but the base damage on the proc just seems so bad it's not worth scaling.
Shadowblights damage is huge and Decay Aspect is a massive increase to your damage output.
Agreed. Putting on the blighted aspect on my amulet seems to be the smart choice if you're running a 1H weapon as opposed to a 2H. And I have the decay aspect on my 1H. Correct me if I'm wrong on this setup
I read that a lot but I've never seen any numbers to support that claim. How can something with 22% base damage that triggers only on every 10th hit be "the biggest contribution of shadow damage"?
@@flowqi212you can literally watch the shadow damage creep up every tick. I ran infinimist in preseason, I’d watch the shadow blight ticks go from 200k to 800k in 3 seconds. It’s just about necessary on any blight focused build.
You can also have multiple sources of shadow damage adding to the ticks and increase attack speed, stacking and making those 10 ticks happen even faster.
@@Spasaymoostard interesting, I'd love to see a full breakdown off shadowblight at some point. I usually have the feeling only fat boss monsters would ever see a 2nd or 3rd tick. If your first tick is 200k the rest of your damage must be already so high that no mob would survive your first sever attack right? 😅
Huge thank you for all the time spent and clearly showing the "why".
Was thinking about remaking a shadow necromancer after i finish building my blood surge. With the autocast of corpse tendril and explosion, i was thinking taking decompose instead of reap for the build to increase mono target damage. As previous skills are on autocast it will be just a maintain decompose and cast iron maiden every 10 seconds on big boss. So terror will work on corpse explo + bone storm + decompose on staggered boss
Interesting discovery. Never played a shadow build myself, but!
I will use this info to vendor all the Terror amulets that I accumulated whilst trade is disabled, lol.
I was wondering why I would see builds not taking terror. Thank you for the explanation.
What do they take instead
@@ms3862depends on the build. If you’re running a core skill you might run attack speed while healthy passive, you might run the distant damage increase multiplier, you could spend some extra points towards decrepify ranks/corpse explosion ranks/blood mist ranks depends on what gear you have currently.
@@ms3862 It depends on the build but you have several options. You can choose talents to make your minions stronger, reduce cd of blood mist or bone prison, etc.
The convoluted way things work together and don't, the weird mechanics, and the overabundance of weird stat modifiers are some of the many reasons I quit D4
Still watching Macs videos though. Hope you continue making content in other games, I really enjoy your style.
Great video. During the end of my 1-50 leveling, I remember going back and trying to max out corpse explosion. It seemed like that's when I started breaking down mobs much more quickly, so that must have been the damage stack from Terror starting to work more properly.
Fantastic vid, I was just venting about how they have aspects for, but no stand alone darkness ultimate. Now, I can say that for key passives as well 😅
I know I kind of started a convo about this on the last vid. Thanks for the detailed response. Interestingly I'm running a build with no crit, no Mendeln, no vulnerability that actually does rely on the legit darkness skills (blight, ce, and shadow version of bloodwave) so I think I'm getting reasonable value out of it. The problems you addressed are still relevant, though.
How high are you able to push NM without mendeln? Are you using minions + golem?
@@Ligh7Bulb highest I've gotten was tier 98. It was not easy, though, 90+ are very hard but doable. The minions in the build are only for utility and have no damage bonuses. The minions have high attack speed for generating cc, essence and corpses. All damage bonuses are for shadow and mostly shadow DOT .
@@Johnnybsknees hmmmmmm hardcore perchance?
Looks like I'm doing something similar but without minions so I'm running full sacrifice with same setup with howl from below.
What's your rotation setup looking right now in fights and what are you using for your main single target damage? I feel like Blight is great for DOT once the paragon board is fully set up (I'm not there yet lol)
@@Ligh7Bulb hell no lol I die way too much. I also like chilling and not paying too much attention while I farm xp.
Interesting! Very curious interaction in that! Thanks for the finding Master
The same thing exists for druid. There is two non natural magic skills that can be made to trigger a random natural magic skill. So people keep recommending to put build into a naturalist build. However only one of them actually also *becomes* a natural magic skill and not just *triggers* one. Same implications apply, some rather important things (like faster cooldown reduction by doing kills) that do work with all natural magic skills, won't work with poison creeper but do work with trample. So in fact poison creeper is a false advise for a naturalist and people keep giving it because they dont look out for that small detail of the skll tag.
This is the good shit I follow for. Your methodology for this testing was spot-on.
I'm usually a Blood Necro fella but i was toying with Blighted Aspect for global damage (underneath Overpower) for a summoner build and this saves some points.
Hey MacroBioBoi, I'm really really curious about your take about Black River on a pure mist / shadow dot necro, is it worth using or would I be better with a wand? And ofc, thanks for everything you do for us who love the class
i'm curious about this too.
In pure AOE black river it is fantastic. As soon as you need to attack a single target wand trumps it. Black river unfortunately makes it so the corpses used make the ticking dmg act as a single corpse unless this has changed since my vacation
It is not worth using.
Can you do Black River next? I always argue with my friends that this unique is not functioning very well as intended.
It says
"Corpse Explosion consumes up to 4 additional Corpses around the initial Corpse, dealing [X%] increased damage and with a [X%] larger radius per additional Corpse."
My argument is, everytime your in a battle and using Corpse Explotion, may it be manually popping them or thru the Blood Mist aspect.
I'm thinking that your exploding corpses faster than your skills could produce them, so getting the max (4 extra corpses around the primary corpse) bonus from this unique is kinda hard.
Are we supposed to like hold on and wait first till we have 5 or more corpses first before we pop them?
I think they should just change them into something like
"Every 5th corpse that you explode deals [X%] increased damage and [+%] increased explosion radius."
Why is there so much weird shit going on in the code for this game. Hardly anything seems to work as it should.
Yeah, i noticed shadow dmg from blood mist doesn't make shadowblight stack but maybe they just need to fix blood mist so it becomes a darkness skill with that aspect and fix minion shadow dmg. You can get another stun with the "every 20 seconds stun 5+ enemies" aspect..........i just have hope that they add more skills and passives so you can have a shadow build that doesn't rely on dmg over time and a druid that doesn't rely on bear and wolf form.
Awesome find mate!
I was one of the commenters in the last video and man I’m so glad with this response. I’ll be getting rid of terror on my sever necro
Unless you have a better spot to put them, Sever is kind of the best case scenario for Terror.
I noticed decompose was not mentioned. It slows 50% and combined with corpse explosion with darkness damage. I use that combo. Has anyone tried that.
@macrobioboi to your last comment in the vid - i would be super interested in whether there are any interactions between the barber proc being shadow damage (i think) and either skill or paragon choices we could make to supercharge those interactions. like, if the barber does shadow damage, does that interact with glyphs? anything special from the wither board? seems like there should be interactions there we can min/max, but i dont have the time to test it.
Another great and informative video. Thanks for this one. I've got +3 ranks to terror on my amulet so I've got to get one with gloom now 👍
this Is very interesting, i used your base for my necro Sever build.
with 9 sever and 11 corpse i did not kill Lilith yet.....i think lack of mobility and not consistent damage has me there,
but i could use those skill points for move speed passive. Thanks
Great work. Love you to do some similar vids for rogues.
Necromancer is my least favorite class but i subscribed to you MacroBioBoi because what you do, you are the only one in the youtube community thay does it and explains it THAT good! Because of you i will someday find a Necromancer build that I will love !!
What else are you going to put the pts in that would increase your damage when you already have maxed everything else that adds damage? is corpse explosion damage just inconsequential now? I personally have maxed CE and I am geared to maximize the damage from it while benefitting from the nearly all of the same buffs that help shadowblight and bonestorm (shadow). How would I be better served?
Eh. I was curious and had collected a nearly full outfit of shadow/minion gear so I switched from solo bl lance to minion & Shadow blight now at lvl 85. With barber, not the minion wrathful heart. It's, it's not nearly as powerful as bl lance and even though my hit points are fairly high, I'm like complete toilet paper compared to my tanky bl lance build. Less dmg, less survivability, less movement speed, less attacking to do, and get one-shot by crossbows and ghosts on only 10 lvl higher nightmares.... like wtf? I'm gonna try the other wrathful, the minion Xtra DMG one that eats essence just to see if maybe it helps the build out instead of barber. But I already switched gear, gems, hearts, paragon, skills, everything. I'm following the latest macrobioboi build for it. I'll be on day three of testing tomorrow, but so far I love the minion and shadow play style and minions not dying immediately from aura bosses IS nice now, but it's still garbage bag level play compared to just about any solo/sacrifice Necro build. I'll fool with it a little more, but it's pretty clear to me I'll be going back to lance. This video just shines more light on my plight. Also, with my current setup, maybe it's the barbers fault, but everything that gets tendril'd in a heap, even bosses, dies very fast in a rush of numbers and explosions. Everything else, stragglers, ranged mobs, bosses on the fringe, they take forever to kill. It's like if the mobs aren't in the initial tendril heap, they miss the big damage output and end up staying alive another minute while my minions hit them pointlessly for no damage. Just pathetic
Nicely detailed with examples and just outright correct. Thank you!
It's honestly debatable if I need terror or even max level CE on my infinimist since basically all damage comes from shadowblight procs anyway. Problem is...the skill tree is so shallow that there's really no where else to put the points. Decrepify scales so slowly the increase to DR is meaningless. I just put the points in terror regardless of the shadow build because why not
The aspect that stuns enemies every 10-15 for 3 seconds works pretty well with terror for me right now. I swear it feels like this stun aspect procks much quicker then it says.
I think there is a common misconception that any damage is "Skill" damage. It's not. Shadowblight is not a "Skill" it is a passive. So anything that reads "Darkness skills do x damage" would not affect Shadowblight. Skills are only actual items you can throw onto your action bar. The same reason why corpses from [Hewed flesh] do not fortify you if you have [Necrotic carapace]. Hewed flesh is not a skill and Necrotic carapace says corpses from skills and minions. Thinking about things in this way should help avoid a lot of confusion
Correct skills and passives are different and act different
It being logical, does not mean it should be that way. Hewed Flesh should absolutely trigger Necrotic Carapace. Shadowblight, one of the biggest sources of damage on Shadow builds, should probably benefit from both Terror and Gloom, the game two passives meant to increase Shadow Damage.
thats why i use blight, to apply slow at range in enemies pulled by tendrils. blight also helps to apply 15% extra dmg to bosses. by the way, the volatile skeleton that comes from the gloves benefits of bone spirit skill dmg?
No
Thanks for all the time you spend to help us understand how the Necro really works!
I love your work, this is exact test that QA should do in blizz seems they did not. or they did but thye ignored their reports
I was always curious about this, but opted for Gloom. I find that many people unfortunately go with Terror
The craziest bit of it to me is the last line. "These bonuses stack and apply to SHADOW DAMAGE DEALT BY YOUR MINIONS" The minions who aren't a Darkness skill... Wtf is with this passive?!
Hey Macro! I want to play necro after leveling my wiz and rogue to 100 since its my favourite class. What would you play for leveling, 50-100 and then for high nm push? Or is it just bone spear all the way? I ask you because I have seen that many of your recent builds are not on maxroll. Thanks in advance
Nice typo
@@shadowfurydono im not english speaker so mistakes can be made due to my phone translator lol
Absolutely Sever
@@MacroBioBoi sever for everything? leveling to 50, then from 50-100 and for high nm push?
People only use Shadowblight for the aspect that gets you 120% bonus dmg once it hits 10x though. Would have been interesting to see you address it in the video, test the mechanics of this, etc.
On another note, the main build involving all of those skills (blighted corpse explosion + corpse tendrils + bone storm + decrepit aura) puts you in the middle of packs, so you constantly have both bonuses from terror (slow from Decrepify aura and stun from corpse tendrils, pulling everything on you for blighted corpse explosion and 'shadow' bone storm to hit).
So, I'm curious to know what other 'shadow build' uses those skill and actually play in a way that doesn't trigger Terror.
Keep up the good work fellow Qcer.
I'm actually in the minority of people who prioritize the dot damage of darkness skills on Infinimist. Most other people only prioritize the Shadowblight proc damage. It is not an accurate statement that people only care to trigger Blighted aspect, with the key passive. Shadowblight is upwards of 50% of your total damage output.
I got 12 pts in corpse explosion, how could shadowblight account for 50% of my dmg? what am I missing?
Another great video! I appreciate your in-depth insights into the convoluted mysteries of the Necromancer. I am always looking forward to your next video, especially Shadow, Blood, and Minion builds.
Have you tried testing the Heart of the Great Feast since Patch 1.1.2? In the patch notes say they changed the damage from additive to multiplicative. Do you think the Great Feast buff will bring it to parity with The Barber, or close at least?
Depends on the build. I think most should continue to use the Barber.
Do you know if the Barber heart damage is shadow? I’ve seen online where is speculated to be shadow damage. If so it should scale with our skills correct?
I just noticed (after watching this vid) my bonestorm did not have the darkness tag despite having the aspect equipped. I had to unequip the item and re-equip it for the tag to attach to bonestorm. Do you know if this is a tooltip bug or is the darkness tag not applying unless I re-equip the item every time?
Sounds like it's supposed to be used with blight which slows on hit?
Did you test the shadow mages with stun? Would really like to know the numbers for minions.
What’s your opinion on black river weapon compared to using a weapon with a aspect like decay or shadowblight
Black River is very weak
How does this effect Infinimist? Is the maxroll guide updated based on these changes if any?
My guide always relied on DOT damage from skills so Terror is valuable on that build. But you should never take +skills to Terror on amulet and instead get +skills to Gloom which I already recommend.
I use Iron golem with the Vulnerable stun and Decrepify to basically have that stun up most of the time. I refuse to use Corpse Tendrils. Small mobs in groups are stunned 75% of their lives between the natural 10s CD on the golem and the curse cd reduction.
Do you know if Blood Mist triggering the Aspect of Explosive Mist to trigger Blighted Corpse Explosion would count as a Darkness skill for Terror? Or would you expect that Terror ignores these? Thanks for your great work!
Terror works for that
Regarding lidless wall. Can I buff it's damage with bone stats but then change the damage with this aspect. Will I still do the added bone damage even though it's converted to shadow??
The skill is still a Bone Skill, so if it's Bone Skill Damage, then yes.
Christ, what a bombshell, now I feel a bit lost about my Sever Necro. Was only trying it until I can do a Mandeln Ring summoner one but still...
So if I have on the aspect that makes bonestorm a darkness skill and do shadow damage then get a roll on my chest armor + shadow damage would that add damage to the bones storm?
Yes
What do you think about using a well rolled pair of Fists of Fate? IMO they work REALLY well with a barber build, as it gives you time for multiple hits, and the more you hit with those gloves, the more likely you are end up dealing way more damage. In addition the lucky hit effects help proc Terror (and the DoT Heart) effects.
I have a 300% pair of fists and it seems to break barber. Tried using them on lillith and the barber just wouldn't proc.
I'll be honest. I think Fists of Fate are just unusable at this point.
@@GrimsBar definitely not my experience.
@MacroBioBoi Due to a lack of good rolls, or because of the effect itself not being good? I mean, howl from below have lucky hit on them which is nice, and sometimes you can carry corpses forward, but they don't have as useful lucky hits and don't give any damage boost to shadowblight
@@kolai1987 I have a long winded answer but I'd rather have an aspect that always increases my skills damage, than one that sometimes does better than a normal aspect, and some times does
The main reason I watched this video was that I thought you were saying that Shadowblight isn't shadow. I realize it's a passive instead of a skill which was the point of your statement. Not a big surprise. The Terror is supposed to give a 9 percent buff at 3 points to at least one or the other situation. That's fine. If they aren't stacking for 18% you're at least getting 9% almost all the time. It's on par with other damage buffs for dot. I've taken theory crafting to a completely different level by organizing percentage tiers. For example magic nodes that are too far to be boosted by glyphs will have a similar contribution to corresponding affixes from rings and one hand weapons. There's a long list. Anyway, the one thing I'm not sure on is the paranormal blight rune from the actual "blight" skill. I've seen shadow necromancer builds put a point in "blight" and then choose "paranormal blight" even if they don't have this skill set to a button. They are saying that the 15% boost to "blight" pools will multiply into "Blighted Corpse Explosion" shadow pools. Unless Blizzard has acknowledged this I am inclined to believe the 3 points into the "Blight" branch are wasted. It's not the same skill nor is "Blight" skill being used in combat. Have you looked into this?
Paranormal Blight does not boost Blighted Corpse Explosion.
So you're saying that Charlie Murphy may have been darkness but he wasn't shadow
Underrated comment right here
Could you refresh full minion necro summoner build ?
Is it possible it is just "minion" dmg? Other tool tips state you and your minions, this one only states minions.
Cool Beans, so how do we make it better on our shadow builds then?
I kind of think that when in bloodmist corpses don't apply properly to your fortify
Is crowd control good for infinimist?
Is Shadowblight a better passive then kalan's edict for minion builds
Yes, Kalan's edict is a laughable passive. You get 21% minion attack speed from any ol' affix and up to 84% from a certain aspect. The 30% would be bad even if it didn't have a ridiculous condition.
@@anitaremenarova6662 thank u
Short answer: yes
Should I ditch terror and use the points somewhere else then?
I KNEW something was screwed. Good job
Any idea why my shadowblight key passive bonus shows 0% ? I'm using bonestorm and shadow mages, but my bonus never goes above 0%. I've tried to keep my skill tree open during battles to monitor it, but it never changes. What exactly procs the bonus?
The number on the passive is a multiplier you get from the stat "damage over time" on your gear. This shouldn't change mid fight.
Any way of making Bloodless scream fit into an endgame build? I love the effects it does :(
Does chill from blight work on shadow blight
Mac dropping those knowledge nuggets all day er' day
I appreciate you
I always took terror as a conditional cc damage mulitiplier. I knew i onlynuwed it for dungeons and only applicable most elites and lower.
hey man, have a question. after finding what you found for the key passive. which would be better damage wise for a summoner build with all minions including golem. Darkness based or blood based?
Darkness based by far.
@@MacroBioBoi ok thanks..
take into account that most builds use barber, so is barber dmg, shadow dmg? if it is, is it darkness skill dmg? i dont think terror apply to barber at all
can you test the damage difference between the blighted aspect and aspect of decay?
In what context?
@@MacroBioBoi I can only fit one in my build. I want to see which one gives more dps: the 5 stacks of shadowblight or 6 seconds of increased dmg. I'll probably make 2 rings and try to see a difference
@@x3r9g6That is not enough context for me to give you advice. What build, what skill point distribution etc. Do you do any damage other than Shadowblight that's relevant etc.
When you make bone storm a darkness skill is it still affected by bone modifiers?
Yep, it doesn't lose it's bone skill tag
I have been trying to find an explanation on this and now i have my answer 🙏 God bless you! Thank you so much!
Good vid mate i use it but i use the blight coreskill and only howl of below
And crit dmg. Since shadowblight isnt a dot it can crit whooop
This is random question and thought, but terror does increase minion damage if they deal shadow. When ring of Mendeln procs with shadow mages is that damage increase applied for your ring proc? Does that even make sense?
The minions don't actually do the damage. The necromancer does. It is assumed to be physical damage.
Mendeln straight up says "explodes for X Physical damage."
I thought the minions do the damage but the ring is scaled from the necros stats.
@@jaygarduh2010 They are the delivery mechanism for the hit, but since it scales only from your stats, it's your hit.
Confusing. I got a 85 darkness necro and all I got from this is terror isn't good for bosses?
Shadow blight is not a darkness skill but darkness skill apply shadow blight... yaaaa
can someone tell me if the Wither node on the paragon board just deals extra damage on a corpse explosion tic, or does it deal a separate instance of damage altogether?
It has a chance to increase any source of Damage over Time you have applied to the target, for shadow damage effects.
@@MacroBioBoi thanks for the clarification!
Cocaine Bear 2: Cocaine Test Bear. This summer, this bear has finally had enough.
So terror is still good for PvP. I don't use blood-soaked aspect meaning the only thing it would not work on is shadowblight which isn't the bulk of my damage anyways.
Nice catch , its word play that I never thought of, my logical mind reads darkness and since shadow is dark I asumed they were pretty much the same thing but they are not lol
Great video! I have been watching y our shadow necro builds with interest, and I have a question. Doesn't the barber hurt your ability to reduce the cooldown of your abilities by taking away lots of your little hits and rolling them up? Wouldn't it be better to use the DoT gem, or even the flat 100%x damage gem (for DoT/SB builds)? Edit: I switched off barber and it does help reset the cooldown of mist much better. The damage is still really good, even if you don't get those D2 style corpse explosion chains from barber detonating. My problem going into tier 70-90 dungeons is that if I get caught outside of mist its almost a guaranteed one shot from all those deadly ranged monsters like corpsebows.
Barber does not negatively impact your ability to lucky hit, except for the affix Chance to Restore Resource.
@MacroBioBoi So even when you deal no damage with a hit it will proc decrepify cooldown reduction? Wasn't sure if that still worked with abhorrents unusual lucky hit mechanics.
@@kolai1987 you're not NOT dealing damage. It's just applying to the monster differently than it normally would.
@@MacroBioBoi Yes, but if you would have hit an enemy 10 times with their own abhorrent decripfy proc chances and instead that is bundled up and delivered as one "hit", it absolutely would effect how much you reduce cooldowns. The only question is whether the hits during the Barber window count or not. We've seen issues with this type of thing before (with shielding bone storm), which is why I was asking.
My anecdotal observation that wasn't very rigorous was that my cooldown seemed to reset fully more often and versus fewer targets than what I experienced using the barber
Youre vastly underestimating how often targets are stunned from Decrepify. On my inifinimist summoner, targets are stunned near constantly as I have high lucky hit, and staggering bosses because of that takes probably 10s if that.
None of my increases to shadow damage and shadow dot from gear and paragon nodes show on the description for blighted corpse explosion in the skill tree. Is this normal?
The tooltip does not properly show it's damaged most don't
@@MacroBioBoi many thanks for the reply. I was about to get heated
Can u please help me, the aspect that says "BoneStorm generate 5% health", my question is of I put Barrier Generation on my build tru afixes does that increase the health I generate during bonestorm? I play on console an can't look at how much Barrier I have. I've seen others on computer be able to hover over the Barrier an Health an it tells them how much of each they have. Can u please test this for me so I can see if I'm building dead stats. Thanks.
Yes the barrier generation is more effective but that stat is not very powerful.
@MacroBioBoi what about the new wither node? Is it worth it when I got 650 willpower.... I run a medlen shadow build an I wanna get this. I'm at the end game lvl 91 with 6 glyphs an I can reach it with my finally points, I'm just worried it won't help as much.
Do you know how the Bone Prison Mendeln interaction works with the minions? I know it's based off of your damage but I'm not sure how you increase that damage.
Mendeln have a 10% proc dmg by minions on lucky hit. There's a bug with bone prison that you have 100% lucky chance with mobs trapped inside.
Moving my Terror points elsewhere - thank you for your hard word and sound advice.
Good work, but for me it was very clear that it isnt a Darkness or even a Skill at all. It works just like a Dmg proc on a legendary item, its just Dmg.
Well where are you going to throw the points anyway…?
Terror being worth considerably less than face value doesn't mean they are worthless, you just need to figure out if there is another 3 points that would be worth more to you.
Is shadowblight localized? Can it trigger at a range is what I'm getting at. Figure deaths reach might be a good substitute. Only dmg modifier I don't have points in that would help for shadow.
I moved my points to Death's Reach because I use a Lidless Wall shield.
@MrToomuchfunk I have yet to have it drop. But I'm not sure I'd want to use it now anyway. 816 focus with decent stats with near perfect rolls last night. Also not sure what legendary affix I'd be willing to part with.
Should Maxroll guides be updated? Pretty sure they use Terror in all darkness builds
Where it makes sense, they will be. It still works for your darkness skill's damage so it's not useless. It's just not as valuable as previously thought by many people.
@@MacroBioBoi thanks. I just switched terror for amplify damage -
Good so far :)
Great video with good calculations but doesnt the description for terror say it applies and stacks to shadow damage of your minions? So a lot of the explanations help me with making builds myself and how to calculate but I saw you only testing your damage and not that of your minions
Why is that relevant to a test of specifically Shadowblight's damage?
@@MacroBioBoi First let me thank you for responding to my question. This is one of the first in depth Diablo 4 calculations which I have seen that explain in a calm and clear manner how the damage calculations are done and how you create a situation where you do proc all amplifiers to optimalize your damage.
The thing I dont understand is why you take terror as an example.
Isnt this only linked to shadow damage done by your minions?
around 5:00 you talk about this for a first time.
At the testing 8:10 you talk about terror that it doesnt do additional damage but you dont use any minions to do the damage?
So how could it potentially proc anything like shadowblight or give you extra damage if you dont meet the requirements for it?
This has me confused a bit. Am i misunderstanding the explanation or am I misunderstanding the passive?
Sorry for the long post and keep up the good work : )
@@iTzJonko it doesn't only apply to minion damage. It ALSO applies to minion damage. What it doesn't apply to for the necromancer is sources of shadow damage that are NOT Darkness Skills. Hence why it doesn't apply to Shadowblight, the Shadow Necro's most important source of Shadow Damage.
I’m on level 47 necromancies with Iron Maiden, blight, blighted corpse explosion, corpse tendrils, iron golem, and reap. I’m on the more difficult level of game play the game will allow. The game is wayyyy to easy with this build. I could probably just close my eyes and push buttons.
Ah yes, macroboi here again to shatter my confidence and dreams
Love the video. Love the spooky music 👻🎵 to go along with it. 🎉
Very nerdy in an amazing way my sub is yours well done