Does 240Hz Matter for Gaming ft. Gav from Slow Mo Guys
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2019
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Does a 240Hz monitor ACTUALLY make you more responsive when gaming? We asked Gav from The Slow Mo Guys to help us investigate this bold claim!
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Наука
Next Slow Mo Guys video : "Linus drops an $8,000 CPU at 150,000 fps"
I would watch
Roasted
Imagine seeing the pins bend as the CPU hits the floor.
@@Luuk3333 cpu's haven't used pins for 10+ years.
@@bleh64532 Ryzen. ;)
this video sold more 240Hz monitors than any ad
mine will be here tomorrow. next day shipping baby
@@AMGEnvy I want one but they are SO EXPENSIVE
@@TasFirinErkegi i got the alienware aw2518h it was $200 cheaper than my lg curved ultrawide monitor
@@AMGEnvy thanks I will check it
@@AMGEnvy I cant find a website that is selling it where did you buy it from
i love how serious gavin is, and how he instantly transitions to AH mode while playing a game
i have to imagine "im ready as penis" is not something he says at typical out of network shoots
The serious smolder as he said I got your back in a super subdued way was totally how a cameraman talks to a director. He's got 3 personas I swear.
"smart Gavin" we see on slowmoguys or when he explains something.
"moron Gavin" we see on ah talk about shit like headlight fluid.
And "serious Gavin" you and I don't really see when he does stuff like filming Sherlock Holmes movies.
This is a very rare instance of serious Gavin
"I'm ready as penis"
Nice to have Gav's AH side get shown to people who aren't familiar with it.
AH?
Inservio Achievement Hunter
AH?
@@GregOld31 usually means asshole
Its definitely a surprise for the people who have never seen achievement hunter content
If you had more RGBs in your rig, it would've increased your tracking.
No he needed a better gaming chair
true
Lol
Red = higher crit dmg
Lol
The human eye can only see 8GB of RAM
the human eye can only see4.6 ghz
The human eye can only see quad core
The human eye can only see 25mbps or less
The human eye can only see 30fps
@@gaijinbot8135 You mean 29.97fps?
I know this is an old video, but for me, higher Hz isnt about reaction time, but say youre doing a 180 turn, you can see clearly when theres an opponent in the middle of the turn, while on 60hz you can't even see him at all. this is the biggest advantage higher Hz can have. Your surroundings perception becomes clearer.
You can set up a test where this 180 turn is automated and you only press a button to stop when you feel you have the opponent on the crosshair. with each round the opponent being in a random distance on the radius degree
that’s actually a pretty good idea
@Yul Strokheet Al-Wauch no because 60FPS/60hz doesn’t show as many pixels per refresh (aka image clearness per refresh sequence)
So turning and moving at 60 across the board will not visually show the same as 120 FPS/ 120 HZ.
Visually you will always see more and see it sooner on 120 FPS/HZ
@Yul Strokheet Al-Wauch I’ve played both for years and he’s right it’s not about when you see it it’s about how clear it looks 60hz no matter what in a fast turn looks like you have motion blur on
@Yul Strokheet Al-Wauch you might want to calm down a little, it does make a difference. Small, but still significant.
Maybe don't call other people bs next time when you haven't even tried what they are saying?
you're only seeing something a frame faster... that's only 1/60 second (16ms) faster... i dont think your eyes can even see that...
"How did i miss that?" Welcome to CS
rng
he did miss the shot
whatch
in slow motion
i was f*cking laging
@Spray Made yeah
“Why is it so buggy?”
get 3kliksphilip to help think of the best way to test this. That man is a king in analyzing and processing
yes please
I totally agree!
he wouldnt like him using the auto
Yes
or 2kliksphilip... :D
You should've thrown a 144 Hz panel in there, because the interesting question is rather if the jump from 144 to 240 is noticeable..
from my experience it isnt i have a 144hz laptop and i got a 240hz monitor thinking it would be better but no you can barely notice the difference
Ya its funny.. 144hz to 240hz diff in video games isnt that large.. Bcuz 144hz is prime while 240hz just feels more extra
Or 60Hz===>144Hz
@@ve1es.-428 nah 60 vs 240 resembles the same as 60 vs 144.. but as michael said the interresting thing to se would be 144 vs 240 cuz allmost all gamers have 144 hz
@@jackklbk8098 I have a 60Hz...😭 But already ordered my 144!!!
Gavino Free, arguably the only "camera guy" more famous than a lot of actors 😂
I'm sure Linus is great. But I only know of him because of this video and another video he did with Gavin Free
Gavin O'Free lol
MARK NUUUUT
For the first one he said “it took me so long to start tracking him” 137ms response time is absolutely insane
60Hz to 240Hz is a pretty large jump. I'm more interested in seeing the difference between 144Hz and 240Hz
Hell, I guarantee that the results for 240 Hz would be identical to those at 120... 100... or even 90 Hz. Even I, as a non competitive gamer, notice when a game is locked to 60, but I don't notice when a game continuously hits above 90.
"You don't need more than 60Hz if you are not pro gamer. It will be smooth, but >60Hz will not raise your skill" © Cooller, Quake series god
@John Monk Honestly I think literally anything STABLE above 60 Hz is fine. We're forgetting that if you have a consistent frame rate of even 50 Hz you're not going to notice. It's FPS drops that are noticeable. When I change settings on a game around, I GENERALLY tune the game to run @ 75 Hz, and NEVER drop below 60. Some 60Hz monitors can even be boosted to run at 70 Hz, and that'd be fine for me as well.
@@reeepingk What do you mean you won't notice anything other than FPS drops? This video alone proved the benefit is noticeable. I'm also interested in the 144Hz vs 240Hz comparison, as I'm not sure the point at which our eyes could no longer keep up. But there's no question that > 60Hz refresh rates are noticeable and do improve one's ability to hit the target.
It’s probably a negligible difference, which is why they did 60 vs 240.
4:34 "These are expensive..."
Just checked. 2TB of storage will run you $17,900.
That's kinda pricey. They should use that on the iPhone to make them even more expensive.
Well, yeah but think about it this way. If you end up with a high-end ssd which has like a 3gig/s writespeed (And would still cost you around $600 for the 2TB model) , the 20 second sample would take a little more than 2 minutes just to copy and the same time to rewatch the same footage if its not in the ram atm. Pricey as hell, but its worth it.
Well, if you have the money for a phantom camera, then an extra $17,900 doesn't make that much of a difference. This is all super specialized professional equipment, Phantom probably only sells a few thousand of each camera model world wide and they are the only company that I know of who even make these kinds of high speed cameras.
Also, if 466 GB doesn't even equal 20 seconds of video, that means $18k gets you about 70-80 seconds worth of storage.
18 Mac Pro stands
Being a fan of both achievement hunter and LTT, This is the crossover Event I never new i needed, but always wanted
"It matters more if youre already good" is about what I expected
Get a Pro / Ex Pro CSGO player. Do 60/144/240 FPS test. Test reaction time and accuracy
@shroud get shrood on it
Znypr We need a current AND an ex, not one or the other. Could test not only reaction time and accuracy but how playing as much as pros do might affect it.
@@ricedaddy88 no u need one test subject. its easier and makes it way more controlled, but linus is assssss.
I bet an S curve forms, since eventually Hz will reach parity with natural eyesight.
@@Neonagi true from 60-144 is way different than 144-240. I would still buy a 300 FPS monitor though cause your eyes can spot the difference.
Comparing 144Hz to 240Hz seems pretty important (to know if it's worth the extra money for 240Hz).
And yeah if you could get someone like Shroud for the tests that could help too.
To get the best test results they should not be using professional players. If you want the most valid results it's definitly best going with amateur players
Not saying it wouldn't be cool to see how pro's do it though.
@@OytalFlyFrag a pro would showcase the fastest reaction times on both refresh rates. so no it would be better
This needs more comments to help it get attention, more testers and more refresh rates need to be done.
240 is probably overkill but if you really wanna know just buy two monitors and return the one which you like the least
People are probably better with a 240hz monitor because they are more dedicated to gaming since it's expensive
Super dumb take! Dont think too hard youll break your brain thinkin stupid thoughts.
@@AdrianDWolfe ?
@@talonius5724 You're assumption that people play better cause they paid more money is dumb. You're completely ignoring the huge difference 60hz and 240hz creates.
@@AdrianDWolfe thats not their assumption at all, and they are barely even making an assumption, its more like a hypothesis. It is likely that the people who tend to be better and therefore spend more time playing tend to spend more on gaming equipment.
If the player is good the refresh rate would have significantly less weight. If the player was bad the refresh rate becomes a bigger factor. For adults who want an even playing field with childern online.
Live the Slo mo guys.. wish they were still making videos like they use too.
It was great seeing y'all collaborate.
Good show
Wow, an LTT video has a conclusion other than "It depends."
Well that's because usually "it depends."
Linus won't tell you what you want to hear, he will say what you need to hear.
Which more often than not, just like the real world, whatever choice you make, how it results, well it depends.
@@ChristopherCraven That Depends.
@@mikem9536 idk. It depends.
@@louis.bodota I think that depends.
@@louis.bodota In his defense,It Depends.
When I upgraded to 144hz, (team fortress 2 mostly)I didn't get better, I could just see why I died more clearly.
If I got a 144 hz monitor I could only really tell a difference on tf2. Overwatch and r6s give me about 80 FPS while tf2 is like 200fps+. My monitor is 75Hz so it would be useless to upgrade my moniter
I really only noticed the game looking better. High fps doesnt just make you a better player. I guess in some very rare instances you may some a slight advantage with higher fps but as i said its rare.
Usually, or games, you have to turn on 144hz for your screen size in the setting. I remember having to do it in tf2. also, you have to make sure the pc itself is running either from settings or for me Nvidia display settings
that is literally how to get better though :P
@wys you can overclock your 75 hz monitor to 90 hz to take more advantage of your fps in tf2
What about isolating something on screen that removes the need to aim and just press the trigger button? Usually for things to appear it takes a few frames but that would hone in on “reaction time”
would love to see this study with a larger sample size and more consideration for test/restest bias
Echoing others' suggestions:
1) Get a professional gamer to try it with you guys
2) Try 144 Hz as well (or 120 or 165)
I mean, Gavin plays games for a living, but unfortunately, he is most certainly not s professional
I'm insterested as well in 120 vs 240, will there be a difference?
You came here to give Linus tips on making tech videos?
yea. why the fck even test *240 vs 60,* when *240 vs 144/120* is the only thing that matters
this
It's like Mythbusters, but for gaming nerds... I love it.
Needs more explosions though, and it'll be perfect
Jamie, wants a big boom.😀
they are hardware nerds, they cant game
@CITYOFHEROES CITYOFHEORES There is also Savage Builds and his RUclips channel Adam Savage's Tested. Mythbusters junior is garbage
love the boom headshot reference at 13:31!!!
One of those things you can’t see but you can feel it
Do a part 2 for sure. This was super interesting to watch and I’d love to see how pros act compared to everyone else.
Agreed
Yo, all FPS players ...thumb this comment up please :)
Bring shroud for next ep
I need a part two and grab shroud and dizzy
bring XANTARES
I want to see Linus dropping something at Dan @ 72000 fps.
I think you're confusing at with on. lol
how do you drop something at someone?
@@NonsensicalSpudz wind? Lmao
@@NonsensicalSpudz nonsesically so.
How about 100,000$ pc...
1:11
why did i expect a sponsor 😂
And I can't believe when I thinking about something you allready has the answer for it.
Thanks as always.
Linus Media Group, the only company where an employee can slap the CEO and not get fired. LOL
-1
Hell, he GOT PAID to do it!
Stoney Mahoney lol true
But...but... Roosterteeth.... Where you bully your boss, your boss bullies you, and destruction of company property is a win as long as you record it
If this is revisited, do runs with 60Hz, 120Hz, and 240Hz, and crank the framerate on the Phantom up to 1200 - 2400.
Deffo invite an eSports team.
Also see if the benefits are noticeable in some non FPS games.
And add a 30FPS run too, so we can compare to console peasants.
@@themagiceye6723 that's just mean
@@themagiceye6723 Console with E sports Vs PC but console players... 🤔
144 too,and bring the pro player who play awp
An eSports team would be interesting.
For non FPS games, I play a pretty competitive racing game (trackmania) which, if I play on 60hz actually gives me a headache. on 144hz it feels more fluid and easier on the eyes because there are a lot of objects constantly in motion at high speeds. I'm not sure if the difference would be big in RPG games, but probably in games with iFrames there would be a difference.
Great video. I was hoping you would do a different kind of test as well though. Some quick turns , as thats where i think the higher frequency will really shine, because youre traversing a big angle in a short time.
Ok, I liked that you added Q3A sounds in there! Awesome experiment btw
My old bosses never let us slapped them. Now I can confirm, Linus is truly a good boss.
A bad boss demands, a good boss leads.
He immediately said sorry, true Canadian
My boss used to demand it and that she could call me daddy. Never work for your girlfriend... It gets WEIRD.
When we got a camera with some higher FPS I asked my assistant to slap me while we filmed it. KA-POW! She hit me shockingly hard! She looked and acted like she hit a dog with her car. She said she didn't want to have to do it a second time so she figured she should do it right the first time. He's right... you're ears ring afterward.
Definitely hit up some pros for part 2. That sounds interesting as hell.
imagine if they had shroud with them
I’d watch that
Yes the results would be more consistent because the pros know how to get in the zone and not feel the pressure
@@Dyils you say that like shroud doesn't perform infront of thousands of people when he streams
@@Dyils you said he would be to hype. thats what my comment was about.
Fun test, and thanks for an excellent channel. What I want to point out though, is that the different monitors should be tested with a day (or maybe a few hours would be enough) in between, so you can rule out time differences due to practice. /Andreas
Always interesting, thanks.
Petition for the test subject to be Shroud
Remember your vote counts
|
Yep
It'd be interesting seeing him having to use 60Hz lol
@@speedy83 he uses 240? Right
@@rishikeshdas8884 he does
Rishikesh Das naah i wanna see get-right or niko and a deagle
Please do 144hz vs 240 hz, see if it's worth it to spend that extra cash when you are upgrading from 60 hz anyways!
If you're only playing competitive games, 1080 p will be plenty and therefore you should go 240hz. If you want a higher resolution you just can't go to 240hz. It's honestly that simple right now. Next time I upgrade my 1440/144 monitor it's gonna be to 1440/240.
@@fVNzO It isn't that simple in reality, because you are now assuming that 240 Hz brings practical benefits over 144 Hz, which has never been demonstrated.
@@C3lloman I think they think 1080p 240hz and 1080p 144hz monitors are the same cost. Honestly I don't know if there is, but that's what I got from their comment.
240hz for sure for competitive edge, since u will be using 1080p anyway. Been using 240hz for a year, I switched to 144hz once and it feels like going from 144 to 60. It is very noticeable.
I’d like to see the degree of improvement at 90hz, 120, 144, 240hz and please try not to distract your subjects so much.
"Medic or whatever"
*every cs:go player triggered*
Timelapse
Excellent Video, thanks !
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your awareness of the distinction between accuracy and precision
What is the distinction?
@@AdrianGK47 To put it simply, precision is being consistent, where as accuracy is being on-target.
So...... consistency and accuracy then? We already have words that mean the two different things after all.
@@TheN00bPolice We don't really use consistency in that context in science, as we use consistent to often talk about the relationship between results or results and theory
It's funny how a couple of words make you feel superior to the laymen.. Fuck right off, i'm neither precise nor accurate so I have no clue
Gav looks more professional whenever he's a guest.
And oddly enough he curses more frequently.
Good old gavin.
Yeah, seeing him here instead of on AH really makes it obvious that Achievement Hunter is NOT a family friendly channel
"Gav looks more professional as a guest"
Gav: Flips off camera within 10 seconds of videos start.
He always carries a different, more rigid feel and it low-key stresses me out
Another interesting measurement would be how long it takes for the player to simply react to the target coming into view. This is an important aspect of of being a good player in any shooter. It would probably have to be tested in a different way, since if the player already knows where the target will appear it wouldn't produce interesting results IMO. Rather, have the target appear at a random location, and test it in a game like Fortnite or PUBG where the scope of the players vision covers a larger area. Then have the player fire the weapon or click the mouse or whatever as soon as the player comes into view. I'd imagine that the higher refresh rate would make it easier to detect movement than the lower refresh rate. So, ultimately, test for reaction speed in response to movement.
17:08 Just realized how this also shows casual gamers mindset when playing, having to think about many variables but being able to focus only on few, while more consistent players do that subconsiously. It's like the mind of a gamer keeps some sort of data of past engagements when having to calculate speed, distance, and it all comes down to reaction and hand-eye coordination, and in high level plays, not even that but mostly strategy. That's why when taking a break from a game and coming back to it you suck, but over short time you are back on track and doing stuff you don't even think about.
*Everybody:* I wonder if 240hz is worth it over 144hz
*LTT:* 60hz vs 240hz
Exactly! That's what I really want to see!
I already know from personal experience with my Razer phone that 90hz is much better than 60. 120hz however doesn't feel as big of an improvement from 90hz though for me.
^-- this so much this
@@RandomFandomOfficial ofc, 60 to 90 is actually more than 90 to 120 % wise, like 144h is more than double 60 but its "only" 84hz extra while 240hz is not even double but its 96hz more
The real point is that it's easier to measure a significant effect with the larger difference in frame rates and 60 Hz is a reasonable, non-trivial case to use for the lower end.
Just continue using 144hz, forget about it, and be happy
Amazing!
Do a part 2 with 120hz VS 240hz
And do a part 3 with Gsync/Freesync on VS off
Yes, seconded since 144 and 240 is much closer so how bout 120 and 240
Yessss
And a mouse sensitivity, dpi, etc. and a pro gamer?
Yeah cause I got a 144hz monitor so I'm wondering if it's worth it to pull the trigger and get a 240hz monitor.
Yes! I'm way more interested to see the differience between 120/144 and 240hz! Than I am to see 60 vs 240!
Love how he is now in the process of creating the lab to test things like this
Geoff in the background at 10:54 had me dying 🤣
Honestly I feel like if you had a pro do this you would have more consistent results.
Shroud is a native Canadian, and a tech nerd some days. You should try and reach out to him for a part 2
F Shroud
agree, Shroud would be a good choice to have come in an assist.
it should increase their view i think?
That’d be an interesting collab.
I think he is the most consistent across all games and would serve as a great median between refresh rates
you only got one person fitting to do the job for your 2nd part video:
SHROUD.
I mean, they clearly know that lol, it's in the video.
agree
More like guardian
@@gregorgardos688 that's an odd way of spelling S1mple
jw has the quickest reaction time tho
The higher refresh is smoother tracking, but i feel its more accurate to think of it as your reticle making smaller jumps as you pan the mouth.
Another way to say. While the physical movement of the mouse is analogous, the actual display of that motion is digital. This means your reticle isnt moving, its clicking into position, while the target is Simultaneously clicking into position.
The player ends of predicting the pixels where both The target and reticle will line up. The problem is The mouse cursor/reticle jump at varying amounts of pixles based on a guess of how far the mouse needs to move to shoot the intended pixle.
Play ability to predict the pixel needed to be targeted and ability to move the gun reticle to point at that pixel at certain point of time has a margin of error, deriving from guesses, ultimately effecting how close the placement of your shots are to yhe target.
The reaction time isn't just initial reaction time of when the target is visible, but a continuous reaction throughout the tracking process. The higher refresh rate you have, The more up-to date information your have to predict, the less extreme guesses your making, the less your margin of error will effect your accuracy.
While conjecture, my supporting argument is if the player was tracking the target with their finger, the pixels they touch on the monitor would have a very tight Shot pattern dead on the target every time. Because the hand motion is analogous and you can make those micro adjustments real time, something you cant do waiting for information to refresh itself.
Conclusion, the faster you get information, the sooner and more accurate are your responses.
You could also study practice effect. Have some of your participants ONLY play 240 for several months leading up to the test, and the other group ONLY play 60. Then swap the practice groups and repeat the test a few months later.
Shrouds tracking is insane, he uses 240hz so it would be interesting testing him on lower hz
morgan godfrey he would kill himself if he plays on 60hz
4:33 Just to give a number figure. That 'little' flash drive is around $18,000 while the camera alone is nearly $100,000
Ok
Ok
Ok
Ok
and that's usd.
if you do a part 2, should test common tight awp angles where people usually jump across to test reaction speed as well as tracking
"Correlation does not mean causation"
Exactly. The most probably reason for the better results from the higher frame rate set is probably down to the users being heavier gamers and more willing to spend money on their setup.
You should definitely try to get Shroud to see if it makes a difference to a pro. That way aim is not as much of a concern.
dude great idea man
Shroud would literally testify in court for 240Hz, he's an ex CS pro and those guys swear by their high refresh rates
this
why not a better one?¿
@@RS_Redbaron I agree, may as well have done 30fps vs 240.. There has to be an asymptote in the relationship of refresh rate to performance. This test shows that 60HZ is noticeably worse than 240, but does not attempt to see if 240 is overkill. If there is marked improvement from 120hz to 240hz, this could suggest we still have farther to go beyond 240, but if they are very similar it would suggest that we have already gone too far with 240hz.
If money is no object, and all obstacles can be overcome with sheer cash flow of course you want the 4k 240hz monstrosity of a rig. It's not just the monitor that will cost more. If you want to run a modern game at 4k 240hz you better have some serious hardware. A 2k setup with 120hz is roughly 1/4 the number of pixels per second being rendered compared to 4k 240hz.. I would be very interested to see if doing 4x more work is really getting you anything when compairing 2k 120hz vs 4k 240hz
Get some pro players in and do this again. Would be very interesting.
They would immediately feel the input lag and aim worse with 60 hz ^^
@@thequattro4219 Very much this. I'm shit, and I can still feel an appreciable difference between 144 and 60hz, let alone 240 and 60.
They would be frustrated with 60Hz. they publicly get mad when FPS drops below 180Hz...
@@henrym5908 because if your used to 240 then 180 looks like dogshit
@@henrym5908 The refresh rate drops below 180? Or does the fps drop below 180? Think before you write.
i never thought these two together would be so entertaining
Input times has a role to frame rates and response times. The more frames the responsive your inputs are. I am unsure if people notice the crosshairs moving to target are straighter and more accurate the higher the refresh.
CSGO Players are probably just mad that they used the autosniper
I was thinking an awp would be better
@lucky strike Ed is actually a decent cs player
@@Neiva71 No they dont. autonoob will stop the player if you hit it and once the enemy is slowed you are free to kill it. Try to oneshot someone with the autonub, using it like if it was a scout, is silly.
only silver noobs were mad
I'm feeling attacked rn
LAN party time, two teams, one on 60hz the other on 240hz then switch over 4 or 8 rounds.
Excellent idea!
And make it something simple like quake instagib
but don't tell them
@@ubaft3135 Ohhhh you can tell. I can tell 60 from 120. On my pc TV anyways.
200 iq
Dammit you guys play off each other so well! Love this collaboration!
Man I just finished my stats class and all I can think about watching this is how a positive linear correlation exists and can be found using a simple regression calculator on Statcrunch and can probably be done with a significance factor of 0.05
Glad you were allowed to use a program like statcrunch, we had to program that in C++ from scratch :s
A video with a professional would be perfect to see how they benefit from a high refreshrate.
Shroud would fit
Great video!
I think it is better to let non professionals do it, it's obvious it is highly beneficial for pros so I'm glad they let non pros do it.
but gav is a "professional"
@@___Robin___ You dont have to be pro but if you're trash, then 240Hz wont magically make you better
With a cs:go professional team? Maybe?
@@___Robin___ I agree, pros are used to high refresh rates, automatically meaning reduced performance at lower ones, particularly 60Hz, this is something gamers have been talking about for a while.However, such would demonstrate the benefit of higher refresh rates over time. Refresh rate is one factor that could technically go very far since our eyes see continuously (or at least as fast as electrical signals through the body). Resolution, however there is definitely a limit for, apart from going to larger screens further away, such as maybe gaming on a billboard.
I think everyone already knows there's a difference between 60 and 240Hz. The question is whether there is any difference between 120Hz and 240Hz.
Or between 120Hz and 144Hz xD
Yeah, 60Hz and 240Hz are way different
If you're going to upgrade to a higher refresh rate, 144hz would be the gold standard in terms of cost efficiency. So I think most people, or maybe its just me, would be more interested in the leap between 144 and 240 and whether that's technically better - then decide if you want to pay 2 to 4 times more for it.
Was about to comment the same thing. Anything higher than 60 is obvious. They need a test at 120.
I well yeah. 24hz :P
Do you guys configure your DPI and in-game sensitivity settings before each round or do you guys just go with what's already being used?
Make the screen flash from white to green, and the subject must click as he sees green, the change to green is randomly timed
I can't get over how much Linus's nose jiggled back and forth when he got slapped.
:D
Same.
@@802Garage I swear you are everywhere. If yt had a top fan, I feel like you would have one on every channel lol.
@@Dabagel100 😂😂😂 In the automotive, gaming, and some commentary spaces at least. I like to socialize. XD
The source of his great business sense.
Did nvidia not factor in the possibility that if you're really good at games you invest money in your pc to make them look better?
InCrIpTiOn They knew that’s exactly the case, they just wanted to make money from those who don’t do their research
@@Beanvee whats wrong with that
they already talk about this in the video. You clearly didnt watch it
Exactly, correlation != causation.
yeah, thats part of it. but mostly its not because it looks better.. it sounds dumb, but shooter FEEL better at higher rates.
What is this pulseway ad with Linus in it before a Linus video?!?!
But framerate isn't just "reaction time" as measured in such a straightforward way. It is really temporal resolution, and accounts for a wide range of important factors in gaming, especially depending on the game.
GET SHROUD TO DO 60Hz vs 144Hz vs 240Hz PLEASE
Canadian bois testing Hz
yeah 144Hz too 1080p.1440p. and 4K too would be very interesting
Ivobardolf holy fuck are you 10? I bet you got banned from his stream
upvote!!!!!!!!!!!
Get shroud!!!! Plssssss
The real question is whether there is any advantage between 120Hz and 240Hz, because 60Hz is clearly inferior if you ask anyone who's used high refresh rate monitors.
Luide Mulumba this is a great idea 100-144hz is pretty common.
Yeah, and throw ULMB mode in there too.
Great, now im stuck again between 144hz 1440p or 1080 240hz... :P
Randy Hulsebos exactly, me too
@@s1gnex just wait for the Legion Y27gq monitor from Lenovo
Hi Gav, good to see you here 👍🏻.
You guys added the scout sniper effect instead of the auto sniper sound effect.
No. 1 Yes. Obviously get a pro. Someone as good as you can get to lower the human error factor as much as possible.
No. 2 More tries, all blind so it doesn't influence the person subcontiously to try harder in either situation.
No. 3 quite a few test shots in the beginning to lower the factor of person learning the pathbof enemy. It's not supposed to be a factor - just the reaction time.
No. 4 the initial crosshair location should be away from the path of the target, so he has to move furthernto reach the target. This would increase the time it takes and therefore result in more accurate results.
No. 5 Linus, don't touch the high rate camera, or you'll eventually trip it and drop it.
No. 6 don't test mouse dpi's in the same test. Introducing a second changeable variable makes test results automatically inaccurate to count. You want to test mouse dpi's, do that separately.
No. 7 Include 144Hz
@@XxANTOFFxX Was shocked that it was 60 vs 240 but no 144. My guess is that 60 to 144 makes more of a difference than 144 to 240. Actually u could find out 240 is nonsense over 144 by these tests.
No.1 Human error is not a factor. From a Human Factors perspective what you're talking about is performance consistency. This is a mechanical response to visual stimuli. Get more participants of wider skill to balance for higher skilled individuals.
No.2 Yes, but no. All trails blind and more of them, yes! Skilled players will know the visual difference between 60 and 240. Higher skilled players will have to meta-cognitively compensate for the known effect of 60hzt.
No. 4 This is a three measure test. Why not randomize the crosshair location within 120 squared degrees of the center of the path of the target. Then let the Pp choose the starting location. This would normalize response times and help balance for timed task stress.
No.5 Yes
I would also specifically add a round of: aim and follow with no shooting. See if you can learn anything from tracking without firing. May be insightful, may not be.
A pro wouldn't work. Pros all have 240 hz screens. They are used to that, their performance is thus always going to be biased towards 240hz. Now obviously 240hz is better but using a pro would make it look worse than it is
Gav: Hi I'm Gav
Linus: Speaking of Gav, SQUARESPACE
I have an idea, increase your data set, by a lot. I recommend trying this test again using more players (inexperienced to very experienced). I also recommend you test it with movement, strafing only. Also, experiment with different Poll rates, and different mice.
13:37 FPS_doug at LEET time though... Impressive editing indeed.
FYI: The Phantom CineMag drives cost roughly 11k for 1 TB and 18K for 2TB
And here I thought my 1TB T5 was outrageously expensive at $169.
fuuuuuuuuuck
I was just about to google what he thought was "expensive" before i scrolled down and saw this. his demeanor said 2-3k... I'm shocked, He needed to add at least 10 expletives to really express his point on how expensive he really meant!
@@snafuraider1696 When you deal in your base model camera being 100k, the 11k card doesn't seem quite as bad.
For that price...it better out live my grandkids
For next run, use eye tracker to add more variable
@@bcp6524 they talk about play style and being zoned-out as a variable point, so I think eye tracker will help to see that.
@@bcp6524 No it would not be. An eye tracker can actually measure the time to react, which they currently just assumed was the time to move. That's not correct since,, as Gavin pointed out, people start moving their cursors at different times based in their ability or experience and the amount of pressure they are under.
@@JosephParlindungan unless you have a high speed as an eye tracker to see when eye starts moving, the normal ones are highly inaccurate and pretty much useless in the specific experiment which is built around that
Eye tracker is a good idea, although I am unsure how frequent data-points they make. Would also be good to have far more tests, the number they had feels very low and as such makes the test extremely sensitive to external factors (which they mentioned, such as mental state).
They definitely should allow players to use DPI's they are used to, as well as each others dpi's to compare. Or at least more than one, such as one for high-dpi, one for medium, and one for low dpi (obviously within a range that is reasonable to see a pro gamer use).
I think using CS for this test is a bit bad, mostly because it takes so long to reset. Might be better to script something on your own, or make some mod (so the models, textures, guns, recoils, etc. are kept familiar) that instantly resets stuff like positions and angles. The release of the target should be entirely random too (uniformly distributed, within a reasonable range), and could interface with the led (or directly with camera) so no human is required to touch cables (I can't imagine it being entirely impossible to notice for the player, even without realizing).
Using a pre-scoped sniper scope feels a bit bad. Not only because usually you dont use a sniper, but also because when you do its only rarely that you are already scoped. Semi-auto probably changes a lot compared to full auto (assuming random recoil so ppl cant use recoil-patterns... and with recoil patterns too, would be interesting data). Also, the change in focus to only center of screen is bound to affect stuff a lot I suspect. Which actually also makes me think another factor that needs to be varied, which is the size of the target on screen (or how far away it is I suppose)
Man, the number of tests increase a lot by each factor, so the number of tests is going to be really high! Iirc each factor should be multiplied? then are already at each test having to come in: 3 dpi's * 3 refreshrates * 2 bullet modes (single/auto) * 2 recoils (pattern vs not) * 3 distances = 108 permutations. Say we repeat each test 100 times (cause we arent too patient), that is 10 800 tests per person. And we havent even considered adding non-blind tests like this video did. And what factors are assumed blind? I think at least refresh rate & distance, while bullet-mode and recoil pattern is known. Dpi would be known and with the test laid out such that you only change dpi twice?
@@feha92 You definitely thought way too much. I know it's supposed to be scientific, but recoil pattern, scope, ..., what? They did fine, just use DPI levels, eye tracking, a pro player & 2 or 3 of the most popular guns in their default modes.
train reaction got me,i can't stop laughing :D
The target is "stuttering" at 60fps, but the camera too, I think that's where the accuracy is lost. Where you can really gain advantage with high refresh rate is in simracing, it become easier to feel your braking points as the car travels less distance between frames.
"Thank you so much again by the way for like being here, this is-"
"Oh I love this sh*t"
LOL GAVIN
invite shroud, i want to see his reaction with 60hz, and 240hz.
This
Yeah they have all this complicated tech but the real error comes in with the players
Hit up the Canadian shroud
Shroud is nowhere close to being the fastest... Plenty of faster people around. I say invite them all and figure out the quickest from say 500 tries :P
Shroud would pull a crowd
I legit saw an ad with you in it :)
I was thinking that your Canadian neighbor Shroud would be great and then I see of clip of him at the end :D
12 secs 4k 1000hz 450+ gigabytes...
Ohhh thats where a petabyte of storage could become in handy
I mean the camera itself costs $100k+ but the 2TB storage is around $18k thats insane...
I don't get it first but now... haha Handy in Germany means mobile phone
I think it shoots at 1000 fps to get the full detail and than converts it to slow motion 60fps. So it's still a 4k 60 FPS file
well, that was in 1000 frames a sec.
not the usal cinematic refresh a normal LTT video is shot in. but yeah, it's still a lot of data
Contact Shroud, 3kliksphilip and TheWarOwl for part 2!
How about battle(non)sense?
@@jonbrandjes9024 YES BATTLE NONSENSE
Thing is if they would have to use the same dpi (to eliminate other factors) and that is very enoying. You can see the same with edzel
@@notdave5081 or they could run the whole test multiple times varyong dpi and sens after each full run of the whole test
@@notdave5081 maybe throw some mouse acceleration in there and really mess things up
When it’s 1 o’clock in the morning and you’re laughing at train noises on Linus tech tips
For me, 240hz gaming is about being able to accurately assess my surroundings while moving really fast - At 60hz things look smooth but any sort of motion aside from slow mouse movements results in massive perceived blur and essentially decreases what I am capable of seeing. However, at 240hz, there is little to no blur when moving around quickly, which increases the connected feeling with the game. Also, rendering so many frames makes it so that minor graphical errors such as aliasing or texture shimmering aren't as noticeable.
maybe with eye tracking device and also with 144 Hz, Im wondered about differences between 144 and 240, 60 is slow obviously
It is important for the eyetracker to be able to track with the same or higher frequency as the monitor.
Human eye cant see more than 60 GB of watercooled PSUs
dont forget the rgb
I will download 70GB of watercooled psus and prove you wrong
Only true gamers see at 120 watts per frame
The human I can't see more than 24 per second frames.
@@Verticas the human eye cant see more than 120 rgb graphic card gbs per second of custom fan water cooler hz
Ahhhh! I am so satisfied that he started with explaning basic logical cause and effect !!!!!!
Ed: "I'm sure I'm fine."
LOL