Why the Michigan cheating discussion is wrong; plus a Notre Dame injury and a bad preseason poll
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- On this Kings of the North, the discussion about the latest Michigan news around the NCAA's look at Connor Stalions and alleged sign-stealing is on the minds of Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis. They believe the general debate around Michigan is all wrong and not focusing on the most important part of the story.
They dive into that, but first they have a few show announcements, a look at an unfortunate Notre Dame injury, some sophomore slumps at running back in the North, and Doug's visit to Penn State over the weekend.
Then it's a lot of Michigan and finally a look at the preseason coaches poll, which loves No. 1 Georgia much more than Doug and Bill think is appropriate.
Thanks for joining Kings of the North.
1. What you do well: Content is excellent. Unique niche. You add value and insight by taking a truly journalistic approach to your content and analysis. The world does not need another fanboy pod or YT channel. Don’t abandon what brought you to this opportunity.
2. What can be improved: Doug is a very high usage player - pass the ball to Bill more. And, Bill, when you get the pass, make the layups. I think that Bill is doing too much other work on the Ohio State podcast. I’m not an Ohio State fan but I am aware of the other podcast. Bill needs to do a much better job of prioritizing his availability and, in turn, how/when he applies his talents. His Ohio State analysis comes off as “fresher” and more comprehensive. I don’t think that this is a product of experience or familiarity - I honestly just think that Bill is exhausted by the time he fulfills his Ohio State obligations.
3. Speaking of which, I think you should separate from the Ohio State stuff. I get it - you are both journalists and graduated from B1G schools not named Ohio State (BTW, tell your audiences this - it will gain your credibility). You both get tagged by the “Buckeye Homer” moniker by your naysayers. You risk conflating actual journalism with the awful fanboy stuff that dominates too many pods. I don’t know where you found that Birm guy on your Ohio State show, but he’s an absolute clown. He’s obviously not a journalist. He’s obviously an Ohio State fanboy. His association does you a disservice. Just separate from the clown show.
4. I have to agree with the comments here on production value. It needs to be better. (I strongly disagree with the one reply suggesting that Pate games the YT algorithm and thus is somehow less authentic. I think the original commenter successfully made the point that the Pate show is less insightful, but it is extremely well-produced. He has 265k subscribers - that’s more than 100x more than you have. Why would you let low production quality get in the way of maximizing reach?) Your show looks like the equipment was specified by someone who was the president of their high school A/V Club. I can tell that you’ve spent some $ on equipment - but you haven’t spent it well. You’re not well specified in terms of equipment that is best suited for YT and repurposing on audio platforms. It's not hard to get this right, or at least make it better. Bring in a technical consultant for a few days. Self scout! Your production quality is just not up to snuff for a show with this much promise and content quality.
You keep complimenting an alleged producer - is this a real person? If you have an actual producer, well, then maybe you need a new/better producer.
5. I reliably listen to Split Zone Duo (mostly for Godfrey and Alex), Cover 3 (for Bud Elliott, the other guys are awful), College Football Enquirer (Wetzel), and Cover 2 (Athlon). I know that you’re primarily interested in CFB, but I think that you should check out “The Athletic Football Show” (Robert Mays). It’s the show that most reminds me of your potential. It is a pro football pod, but features unbiased, objective journalists with interesting insight and analysis.
I found y’all’s channel just after the season ended and have watched every episode since.
1.) I listen to/watch KOTN, Joel Klatt, Late Kick, and a bit of College Football with Sam.
2.) Joel Klatt and Late Kick has very high production value. College football with Sam produces a ton of content (Big Ten focused)
3.) Honestly, I like KOTN the best due to its emphasis on Northern teams. Even as a Michigan fan I like hearing about teams like Syracuse, Boston College, and Cincinnati. Getting to know more teams stories will make the fall more fun. Y’all are already working on what I would hope for with more content during the season and a pretty good production value so honestly just excited for the season!
1: Joel klatt
2: nothin u can do cuz he’s just the goat tbh
3: yall killin it keep it up
1. Better than your pod? Single Wing by Godfrey. He's an objective truth-teller. Ralph Russo is reliably excellent on AP Top 25 Pod (which is the height of irony because there is little more stupid than the actual AP Top 25 Poll). Wetzel is very good on the Yahoo pod. Robert Mays and Mitchell Schwartz are the best football analysts. I'll listen to Dane Bugler 100% of the time.
2. Why are they better? None of the people I really admire and appreciate have obvious school affiliations. Godfrey went to Ole Miss but he's always been super objective about Ole Miss (maybe even too hard on them). You guys are way too close to OSU. The OSU beat is known outside Ohio as a fawning embarrassment. The only school worse is UM. It's such a disappointment that the two flagship programs in the north have such a hard time finding unaffiliated, objective reporters.
3. I can't tell if you guys have $ and don't know how to spend it, or are dirt poor broke and trying to get by stealing WiFi at Starbucks. Both the audio and video quality can be spotty. Graphics are average. The show looks like a high school film class project. You guys should be hardwired to fiber for reliable, predictable video quality. Buy better microphones. The difference between average sound and awesome sound is less than a thousand bucks. Better lighting. Learn to reliably frame yourselves to common sizes. Production 101.
4. Overall, the content is much better than the production. I like the show and want to see how the 5x per week live episodes work but I admit that I'm dubious. If you struggle with production on canned and edited video that drop 2x per week, how are you going to pull off live content 5x per week?
Hello KOTN,
I really enjoy your KOTN podcast as a Big 10/Penn State Football fan since you emphasize the importance of Northern Football across the country. Provided below are my perspectives on KOTN:
1. I listen to Joel Klatt, Josh Pate, BTN Big 10 Football, Penn State Football podcasts (BWI, State of State, Locked on Nittany Lions, Next Up with Brennan, Lions 247), Locked on Big 10, and ESPN's Greg McElroy,
2. Like that, KOTN emphasizes the strength, depth, and championship teams in the Big 10, and
3. How do you improve? KOTN is calling more ADs, media personalities, and player interviews from all 18 Big 10 football teams like the Big 10 Football Media Days.
Hopefully, my KOTN podcast evaluation is helpful for you to review your programming.
Thank you,
Josh Bazon
Now that KoTN will be going almost daily, making it one of the biggest shows on RUclips, my Bill Landis autograph is gonna skyrocket in value!
If there is a Michigan fan out there that will refute this, by all means comment... Doug you should in no way feel sorry for scUM fans. The majority of them would replay the season exactly as is even with the hindsight we have now. Laughable that the term Michigan Man is still thought of in a positive light
Show is great overall. A critique is that Bill tends to just go along with everything, even when you can tell he wants to push back more. Perfect example is this Michigan stuff, Doug feels it’s not nearly as big of a deal. Bill visually wanted to push back multiple times, and even ends the show with “being too nice to Michigan” but doesn’t actually ever put his foot down and state his actual opinion. A lot of “yeah, I agree with that” and it feels fake at times. I don’t want fabricated conflict, but respectful conflict makes shows like these. If Bill just agrees with Doug on everything, then Doug should just do the show himself.
Jesus Doug, tell us you’ve never played football without saying it out loud. 49-26 Before Connor. 40-3 After Connor. During that 40-3 run they outperformed Vegas spreads by almost 9 points. It’s actually amazingly similar to the Astros. If you know what pitch is coming, you become a better hitter, and many Astros did. Just the same in football. Doesn’t matter what position I play, but let’s just take safety. If I know it’s a run, I never hit my backpedal. I just trigger downhill. I don’t even need to know what side the play goes to. He’ll look their second half adjustments. They held CJ Stroud #2 pick and 3 first round draft picks at WR (with the first OT in the draft) to 3 points. Maybe they went in to half after OSU scored 20 points and went up and down the field and said “hey we know the plays. Signals are the same”. They get 50+ hung on them after that and we find out that TCU changed their signals and UM didn’t scout them in person.
I know you like to argue and that’s your job here. But your position asks to suspend all belief and empirical evidence. As far as it wasn’t as top down as the Astros?!?!? The president and AD stonewalled the entire process….BET! And the head coach, along with his 2 genius play callers, just randomly hung out on the sideline with a 55K “recruiting assistant”, while he whispered what exactly to them while staring at the opponents sideline? He didn’t even watch the game….just the sideline. BTW has Connor Stallions ever been credited, yet alone mentioned, in a UM recruiting win? I’ll save you the time. The answer is no. Doug the contrarian falls woefully short on this one. Your legacy is as tarnished as theirs in taking this position
Couple of dudes from Pennsylvania that made a name for themselves covering Ohio State and now are carrying the flag for Northern College football. If there is a more unique show, I don't know about it.
Up the production value and you will reach coast to coast across the entire B1G footprint. Doug is the northern version of Paul Finebaum. Better actually. Doug and Bill are the reason this show is good. I like the goofy Doug vs. Pragmatic Bill
If I want Buckeye specific, scarlet colored glasses to make myself feel better, I listen to THE Pod. National coverage, Joel Klatt show. Every once in a while, I will watch Meance to Sports, for the same reason I can't look away from a car wreck. 😂
When I want to be casual and chill and just be an Ohio State fan, I'm going to Juck on Bucks, eveytime. It's my number 1 show for Buckeye fandom. Juck has a a very raw and relatable personality, like you're talking to your bro, drinking beer and watching football together.
KOTN has a good niche, they need to better exploit that niche and bring in more national fans.
Yours is the only college football show I watch (mostly listen to, honestly), so no basis for comparison. Well, also THE Podcast, but I’d argue that’s Buckeye football content, so not quite the same thing I guess.
Here’s what you do wrong: You need to let Bill contribute more. I know this was more of a Doug rants episode, but I kept wanting to hear Bill’s perspectives on some of these things.
Here’s one OSU fan’s theory that ties the Michigan cheating scandal to the southern bias in polls: Everyone already assumes Michigan cheated and that it provided them a competitive advantage and has written them off as a serious champion. In that world, Georgia is the most recent national champion who didn’t have to cheat.
Yes Doug, it clearly happened, lol. Everybody knows, including them..some of us (OSU fans) are obsessed with it and some of us are over it..I honestly dont want to hear about it again until its over. Yes, they clearly cheated and will/should be punished but ready to move on. Going to my first OSU game this year. Im hyped for the season. #GoBucks!!
I found this channel after watching a brief clip about the Michigan cheating scandal. I found the content compelling and stuck around.
I really, really, really like Split Zone Duo (SZD) - but mostly for Steven Godfrey. The other two hosts are average and Godfrey carries that show. I also like the College Football Enquirer with Dan Wetzel, Pat Forde, and Ross Dellenger. I sometimes also listen to the ESPN pod but only for Pete Thamel.
I think that someone like Josh Pate has really good production quality, but the content is super casual and not very insightful. It's style over substance but the quality of the production is excellent. I think that your content is unbelievable, but I do wish that you'd invest in better production value. If your show looked and felt like studio quality (like Pate's does), then you'd be coast-to-coast famous. Even Pate's live hits are very well produced.
You may not like this feedback but the days of sportswriters taking pride in looking like bums are over. In the old days, no one knew what a writer looked like, well, because they were writing! But, you guys should put a little more effort into personal brand and appearance. Again, Pate never looks like a bum. Sometimes, you both seem to pridefully wallow in looking like you rolled out of bed.
Your content is awesome. Look the part and you'll be golden.
Disagree with this. I don't give a shit that Josh Pate invested more money in his production to make himself look like a news anchor or that he games the RUclips algorithm with his titles and thumbnails. I watch/listen to sports podcasts to hear talk about ball, not for the quality of their camera or outfits. I would even say that Pate's style is off-putting
I've been listening to KOTN regularly for about the last 3 months. I found y'all from listening to Kings of Columbus
1. For college football, I listen to KOTN, Kings of Columbus, The Podcast Daily, Until Saturday, the Andy Staples Show a bit, and for the NFL I like State of the Nation (Now the Just Win Podcast) which is a Raider-focused podcast made by Athletic writers, and The Athletic Football Show
2. My favorite podcast of all time was 4to6 with A&B. I think the best part of the show was you could feel the friendship between Ari and Bill, and I liked the assgrabbery, which felt both natural and also had a place in the show. I think Kings of Columbus most closely replicates this feeling, but I have yet to listen to something that tickled the itch in the same way. When Andy Staples and Ari were together, for example, I often felt like Ari was made to be the punching bag too often. Finding that natural feel between the hosts is really hard, though this podcast does a better job at that than most. In terms of RUclips stuff, I think the production value could be a little higher, but I don't expect that from a podcast just starting out that's still finding its legs.
3. The thing I like the most about KOTN is that it feels like a national podcast that actually covers nationally. Though there is of course still a focus on the big names (OSU, PSU, Oregon, Mich, etc.) I still think you pay a good amount of homage to those other schools that get effectively no coverage. The SEC bias in media is irritating to me for reasons highlighted towards the end of this podcast, namely that name recognition alone makes fans perceive a bottom-feeder SEC team better than the 4th or 5th team in the B1G, despite bowl game and regular season games proving the opposite is true!
I listen to a few shows, but not as consistently as I once did. My preferred team is in the MAC, and otherwise I generally prefer B1G football - so I listen to quite a bit of Klatt.
2) as for you guys so far - this is my preferred show for CFB news. It centers on what I care about like no other show. But - I think Klatt is a hair better at analysis, and that Finebaum is better at trolling - and for the purpose of this, I mean that as a compliment to him. Because of his background and access, I don’t necessarily think you can quite out-analyze Klatt. I do think you can match what Finebaum does, in a classier way. I don’t particularly care for Paul, and don’t listen often - but his specialty seems to be acting erudite over a layer of crazy. Kinda the CFB Springer Show. You guys don’t need to do that - but Doug has such a uniquely northern voice and speaking cadence that he can speak down to the south in a way that will just grate on them. Roll with that.
3) what you guys do well is report and come to smart conclusions on the reporting. Lean into that. Klatt can come to smart conclusions on the analysis - you guys should come to smart conclusions on the reporting. Others can’t really match you there. Fan podcasts and hot take artists don’t have the weight of good reporting behind them. You guys do.
Edit - I almost entirely listen via podcast and not YT, so I can't speak to video production. After reading comments here on video production, I'm not sure if this is trying to mainly be a podcast or a video show. In terms of podcasts, production is fine.
One addendum. The late Bob Newhart once made the joke “… I don’t mean to denigrate those who listen to Country Music. And for those of you who like country music, “denigrate” means “to put down.””
That kind of put down style has to be the heart of telling the south to cram it.
TSHOE FOR THE SEASON IS A HUGE WIN
Stallions advantage doesn't matter. Results doesn't matter. The fact Michigan did it is what matters.
Don't talk so much TTUN ;)
In all seriousness you guys are great. I would agree the production value is where you can improve most, think doing the shows in person together would be great. Also, think Bill could call out Doug or disagree more, not saying First Take level, but when Doug says crazy things like Colorado can beat Bama, he really should be put in timeout for the rest of the show!
I think also when you get into the season and you can do weekly projections/rankings where there is one specific day you do that and then another one where you pick the games, the show will really gain steam.
Love the travel you guys do for the show, love you bringing on coaches, ADs, and other media personalities, love the projections you guys do and all the work you put in. Thanks!
Doug - i love you buddy. That being said, you lost me at the 47 minute mark when you compared Harbaugh’s antics to an artist trying to achieve greatness. Let’s call it like it is - he cheated, brazenly and unethically.
Doug- I would like to understand the perspective on the difference between the Astros cheating scandal and what UM has allegedly done. You agree in your words that the astros as “dirty cheaters” bc they were using technology to illegally eliminate a variable in a game. In their instance pitch type. So batters would still be required to identify location and hit the pitch. Similarly, if UM used advanced scouting, which is illegal, to steal sign in advance of games to eliminate not just one variable (pass or run) but also location, particularly on run plays (left/right), why would they be held to different standards?
Great discussion overall I just was hoping to understand the distinction in your mind.
Doug I love ya brother, been listening to you since Buckeye Talk. I gotta say though your perspective on the Michigan scandal is kind of weird in my opinion… I’m not sure how you didn’t realize we were beyond the fact that he did it…The man cheated for sure. The reason the consequences matter so much is because of the message it sends to other teams and players. We talk about not cheating the players but what about the former players on teams Michigan played and potentially were cheated out of a win or worse. There needs to be consequences, I’m just not sure how this is debatable.
Hey Doug and Bill! I appreciate your podcast. I’m a Michigan fan who found your podcast when you were covering the playoff and national championship. I think you do a nice job already and think it’s great to get constructive feedback.
For a podcast with a broader perspective covering a lot of teams, I think Cover 3 podcast is the standard. While not perfect, Budd Elliot and Tom Fornelli do a really good job of covering everyone and being objective which is extremely difficult.
I think they leverage a lot of connections to insiders of other teams on the show. Bud frequently talks about talking to insiders he’s trusts to get the pulse of teams he doesn’t cover closely. He also mentions 3x speeding through tons of team podcasts a day.
It took me a while when I first started listening to pick up what team they primarily root for. I think your podcast is still pretty focused and well connected with Ohio State. I think bringing in people outside the Ohio state circle could help. Work on finding reporters or insiders of other teams you trust to lean on them when something like an injury to an Olinemen happens. Last thing, and it’s not something I think you’re bad at now, but don’t be afraid to say “I don’t know” sometimes. There are too many teams in the north to know everything about everyone. Making stuff up just to have something to say will push people away. Good luck and keep up the good work! I love the idea and direction of the podcast!
WHY did Moore and Stalions share 52 text messages when Stalions was a "lone wolf" that no one knew, who was a low level staffer in the recruiting department??
Who is better and why?
1. I listen to The Podcast, Huddle, kotc, Klatt and RJ Young. You are best bar none.
2. Nothing to improve.
3. It is hard for me to grab critical info piecemeal. So for kotc perhaps a view of the roster (a la ESPN) that we can focus on for this season.
Screw Michigan. Lets stop talking about them.
37:39 you don't watch many of Michigan's shows. If you did, you would understand why they are surprised. The "BLUE WALL" is a real thing. Maybe i see a different perception, since i live 20 minutes outside Ann Arbor, but this has gotten next to zero coverage around here.
It must be like living in North Korea Lol
@@StewBedazzle Trust me, I have seen more of Ohio States fall camp already, then what will ever be shown of Michigan's entire camp. I don't think they even let the media attend, only thing covered is press conferences. They control the narrative 100%
Your analogy is like explaining how someone who robbed a rich person and admitted they did that after they got caught but did it really matter? Gimmie a break! Rules are rules and if rules are broken then enforce the rules. What kind of sportsmanship are we displaying for the future. Please show some respect for good ol competition and sportsmanship instead of rewarding slick and shifty moves to get ahead. Also- you can do better here. We don’t need your naïveté.
Ikr😂😂
You guys are great, cover 3 is my go too. Those guys play off each other really well and they talk about everyone. I know Texas State is a wagon this year because of them
46:00 Doug giving JH way too much credit here
How much does cheating impact games and players would be a GREAT show. 1) You could bring on a recruiting expert like Dane Brugler. I have asked this question to cowboys media. Nobody will answer or ask others. The cowboys drafted Mazi Smith (1st Rnd)and Schoonmaker (3rd Rnd) last year. Neither has done well. Mazi has a been a VERY big bust. For a guy that is stronger than 99% of NFL players, its awfully suspicious. His get off and reaction time is horrible. His playing tape looks great if you know what play is coming, its much easier. Run? Pass? To which side?
2) There is a way to test this somewhat using the new video game. What if you ran the same team vs itself 20 times (computer vs computer). What would the difference be? Then run the same vs the other but you pick the plays but he computer runs them. Have your buddy (who knows FB) know which play you are running and adjust his defense or offense pre snap. Run that many games and see the difference.
I enjoy the style of this show more than any of the other buckeye RUclips shows. I especially enjoy the questions that Doug comes up with and I find Bill and Doug bring up points that other shows don’t (for instance, Doug breaking down the data of the increase in games along with the clock rule changes that essentially amounts to the same amount of football).
The only show that has a little edge, I would say, is Buckeye Scoop. Kirk and Nevada have resources that nobody else has.
I would say just keep what you’re doing, Doug! Keep up the great work!
Lots of York Pennsylvania talk in this episode. Jahiem White and Beau Pribula same class. Wish PSU would have recruited White, didn't test well but was clearly an amazing back.
Damn Doug, you got bars bro!
I think Tshoe will be a great addition. I also enjoy when you do interviews Doug. You there are interviews. More interviews please.
Michigan is done.
-3 year post season ban negotiated down to two
-Vacation of all wins from 2021, 2022, and 7 games of 2023
-10 year show cause for Harbaugh
-show cause for sherrone
-show cause for Minter
-10 million dollar fine
-15 scholy reductions for 3 years
-all 3 big ten titles vacated
-5 years probation
- not sure what the CFP will do, but should a team keep a title when they wouldn't have made the playoffs with 7 less wins?
1. I appreciate you guys and will support any content you put out any place, any where.
2. Do your best to stay away from single person long form videos/podcasts. It’s incredibly difficult for one person to talk for 1 hour straight and it be listenable content. The only exception is if the content factual based and not opinion based.
You got a decent start on the song- but we expect more from you…you can do it!😂
I’m gonna love the Friday shows 🤩
I will start this response to the question about football podcasts by saying yall are in my regular listen and probably my favorite considering kings of Columbus as part of your resume. I listen to Cover 3, late kick, Joel Klatt, and some others depending on the topic; but if I would consider any other show my favorite it would be Pate State with Josh, he’s funny and very much so runs the show like he’s having a conversation with the audience members as if we are on the same team and with the give away he does he has made it feel very much like we are playing for the same team. I feel like he can get repetitive sometimes but I will still listen and I don’t think I would say that about many people. Not sure what suggestions I would give to improve the show because I love the variety and approach, except I’d love to hear you talk about border schools more. I’m the guy from Louisville and we don’t get a lot of media attention and I feel like we fit into the premise of the show. Last episode bill made the comment about us being dragged down my Uk and first of all it makes me hate them more but I get it! I’m not even sure everyone in Louisville would agree with me bc I also have Ohio roots. But more discussion/ respect to border schools I think would also simplify the USC, UCLA question too
Re: running back year two. You completely ignore their opponents. I suspect that the sophomore running back’s opponents have figured out they are dangerous and covers them better.
Doug, it doesn't matter who is better and why they're better. As for where you can improve, my only suggestion--somewhat selfishly--is that you add a website with a contact form or create (and promote) an email address so I can send you feedback without without having to muck around in YT comments or Twitter. I have many, many thoughts on your Connor Stalions stance from this episode. It's the first time I've heard your Ohio State brain take over. But mostly I am completely floored that you thought there was anyone, anywhere still wondering if Stalions has actually done what he's alleged to have done. We all learned back in October, definitively, what the scheme was and how it worked. No one has questioned that since the bye week. As for the legacy discussion, that is a discussion that can be had, and perhaps ultimately is the more important question. But it's very silly to suggest the penalties discussion is the wrong discussion. The additional penalties (on top of the ones already levied in 2023) are things happening now, or soon, or at least next. And the penalties and investigation results will likely shape some of the legacy. So the discussion that everyone else is having is absolutely THE(™) discussion to have right now. As for why the latest NCAA leak via ESPN should change anyone's opinion, as you and Bill suggested, I truly don't understand. We learned no new information that speaks to the effectiveness of the cheating. Whatever decision anyone had made before the other day, nothing has impacted that. Michigan still won all its important games last year without Stalions (and all its unimportant games by 4, 5, or 6 touchdowns). Perhaps that's not enough evidence for your Buckeye following (or co-host, apparently) to accept that it means the cheating (if it was, in fact, a rule violation and not a loophole) was minimally helpful, if at all. But from what I have heard outside of Michigan and Ohio, it has more than satisfied the masses, including NCAA president Charlie Baker who said Michigan won the title "fair and square" noting that teams had plenty of time to make adjustments after the (possibly legal) scheme was made public. OSU and MSU may never accept it, but if anything, that's just a bonus. Go Blue!
Menace 2 sports. They won’t get scared to say the shit that needs to be said. I also think birm is unmatched on the recruiting side of it all. I don’t watch shows like klatt or late kick because they just say bare minimum shit in my opinion. I love you guys because during the offseason you have fun discussions and I feel like you guys don’t click bait unnecessarily. That’s just my opinion from a small town on ohio tho. ❤️
I only listen to this and The Podcast. Enjoy KoC more because it's osu focused. Like the idea of KOTN traveling to other games. I enjoy Birm, so more birm would be great
You at the recuirting event?
Seemed like a Chris Collinsworth impression
Dont want to be associated with the cheaters up north!
Love the song so far.
I'm really happy that you both broke away from the silliness of Austin and Birm. I don't mind Austin but Birm is so overrated. Birm is one of those guys who is on a new channel every 2 years because he burns bridges. I spent the past few years barely tolerating Birm just to get to Landis. It's the same thing with the old Buckeye Talk. I'd put up with Stephen Means (who is inarguably the laziest, least qualified person to ever work on the OSU beat) to listen to Doug. So you've finally landed in a place where you belong. I really like Wetzel's podcast (even if I liked it better with Thamel than with Dellenger who always seems like he's drunk on the show) and I like SZD. I echo the other comment about production quality and personal appearance. If you looked a little better than I have no doubt that this would be bigger than Finebaum and probably on ESPN.
i like Buckeye Huddle because they cover everything and very funny. they put out something to listen to almost everyday.
Doug your new set up is rocking..but we need some scarlet and grey behind you🙏
Isn't this the guy from the London Bridge video?
South can cram needs bill doing a be bop
OJ was innocent, right?
You guys have to walk a delicate line to not lose your northern friends in Michigan. 😂good luck in that.
We went through the Brady Hoke and Rich Rodriguez era. I think we’ll be ok discussing and defending our natty
40 minute discussion and not once did these OSU homers mention how Michigan won every game after Stallions was gone. That's why I stopped listening to this pod long ago besides this episode.
Everyone knows Stallions stuff happened. Reality is OSU and MSU, shockingly, are far and away most bloodthirsty.
It was unnecessary. Did you watch OSU this year? Alabama? Washington?
If Michigan wins were mainly because of Stalions, wouldn't they have fallen off for the last 8 games without him? Instead they played the toughest part of the schedule and seemed to play better winning against rivals and the playoffs.
This is a joke show.
Have you listened to osu
You guys need to talk to some actual Michigan fans to hear how they feel instead of projecting
Also as a lifelong Michigan fan. Did they cheat? Yes, unequivocally. Did the coaching staff know and to what extent? Gray area where they knew Stallions could de-code play calls and stuff but not sure how much they knew of methods used to obtain. Did it matter/help? Depends, it may have helped in the 2021 and 2022 seasons and then helped with recruiting or transfer portal. For 2023… no. They were caught early in the season, didn’t have their coaches for their most important games and went through an insane schedule at the end of the year including #10 Penn state, #2 Ohio State, #16 Iowa, #4 SEC Champ Alabama, and #2 undefeated Washington. That national championship and team 144 will always be legitimate to me (and to the NCAA President Charlie Baker)
Stallions = LEGEND
Anyone see Thamel on ESPN today say he doesn't think there will be any vacated wins and "maybe" a bowl ban? If the most hilariously pro-OSU ESPN reporter is saying that, maybe people should listen. After all, I've heard over and over again these last months from Buckeye fans that Thamel has the best info and is always right. Or at least that's what they say when what he says jives with the Buckeye narrative.
Bro Ohio state is like bitter ex wife towards Michigan my goodness 😂
Bill Landis baselessly claiming that all ex-michigan coaches since 2021 have been frauds. Mike macdonald was a coordinator for two years before he was hired in seattle and aidan hutchinson is a top edge player in the league. Stop wishcasting
Bill need to retract his statement praising Hairball for cheating !
Doug, you seem to be clueless about this topic. Been obvious he did it and all the coaches knew about it, because it's clear all the players knew. Players admitted they knew all the plays on national media.
So duh ???
The fact that in your discussion you failed to bring up three critical points made me unsubscribe to your pod:
1. You did not even mention that Michigan won the title and all of its toughest games after the scandal broke, which would almost assuredly prove it was a minor benefit, if at all.
2. You fail to mention that sign stealing and knowing what the other team is going to run is NOT illegal. Everyone does that. Does everyone have in-person scouting? Probably not. So the question is how is that method of inperson scouting different than taking signs off the all-22.
3. There has been zero evidence the coaches knew he was getting his info (arguably) against the rules.
Proves you as unserious commentators and failing at taking off the scarlet and grey glasses in discussing this topic. So if you want to know how you improve the show, maybe start there.
Maybe listen until the end? I think that they acknowledge your general thinking. And, also, good riddance to the UM apologists and UM homers with blind spots the size of the Big House. If you want smart conversation, subscribe. If you want pablum, keep sucking off Balas and Webb.
Time to take your blinders off.
There is video of Stallions watching the OSU sidelines for signals.
As soon as the play is changed, he immediately tells the D-coordinator the call and the entire bench knows if it’s a run or pass.
In the 22 game at OSU, Ohio State is on about the Michigan 9 yard line.
There are two receiver on one side and one on the other.
The play is signaled in and as soon as the ball is snapped, the two safeties and a LB runs to the exact place the call is being run to.
Even if everything you said is accurate, that is not illegal. Again for the bucknuts in the back, stealing signs is NOT illegal. Ohio State has a guy too.
@daviddownie3431
Funny how the Buckeyes fans only bring up Stalions being at the '21 and '22 games when there are literally pictures of him at the '19 game as well.
But that is conveniently left out because it doesn't fit the narrative that Michigan's success was all due to Stalions, even if the '23 game obviously proved that wrong.
And OSU knew what plays Michigan was going to run in 2022. Buckeyes knew we were going to run over and over and over again, and even though they knew, they couldn’t stop us. I know I know, snow makes football hard.
Because it’s second offense
I watch Buckeye Scoop because they have more insider info and your programs are way too long.
Fan of crazy conspiracy theorists eh?
Sorry gentlemen you have zero clue about Notre Dame offensive line dynamics. It's hilarious