Will This INFINITE LOOP BREAK MASTER DUEL? | Yu-Gi-Oh! Ruling Twitch Highlight
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
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Next week Dzeeff be like: Maxx C Wangu Departed Exodia.
oh no..... after Dzeef started posting these exodia decks a good bunch of my games are exodia.
I don't think that would work with your own Departed, right?
I do have to admit that when i saw the Exodia Leg I thought the EXACT SAME THING
Maxx C lets you draw every time your *opponent* summons a monster
@@machina5 I should’ve known that! Good call!
@@SkepticRyo you don't need to be upset about facing exodia lol
Had a guy play galaxy eyes and when he attacked with his negated photon dragon he activated it's effect still and it fizzed, but on res he activated it again and then a 3rd time before the game stopped him from doing it again and proceeded to damage calc. He tried to trap me there cause I negated his stuff but the game was like "nope". I'm actually surprised how much effort was put into this game to stop infinites and hostage situations.
Galaxy Eyes Photon Dragon gets about 3 windows to activate its effect, so what likely happened was the player just decided to attempt to activate it at each window. It's just due to its wording, but the card can't actually infinitely loop with its activation windows. It's just weird.
The same thing happens in Duel Links, after your third attempt it just won’t even give a prompt and just continue with the battle.
@@meepgofish2 the 3 chances they had to activate Galaxy eyes was probably before the damage step, at the start of damage step, and before damage calculation, after which since the effect doesn't directly change attack points wasn't usable during damage calculation
Don't use the F world please
It's not like this is their first time created accurate yugioh game
Not so much effort when Konami already did this since GBA era of GX Duel Academy, they knows
judges on duelingbook: no you can't do that, send pole position to the gy
judges on master duel: i am the master of chaos
Yes coder should test pole position on another video
@@AngelofDeath333 Pole Position isn't in Master Duel, for good reason
@@LGAmaterasu that’s absolutely saddening
Judges on dueling book get no pussy
For folks that are talking about burn loops, it's not an infinite loop because the loop ends when your opponent's LP reaches 0; The Departed/Wanghu loop stops at 10 because it's a loop that does not determine a winner if the loop continues; the reason it stops even with Maxx C activated is because the infinite loop can still continue infinitely even without Maxx C. The burn loops can't continue if the burn component is removed, so it continues until there's no more LP to burn, which causes a win state for one of the players anyway.
Technically Maxx C creates a win condition due to deck out, so you could argue Konami should add a parameter for this scenario
Same condition for the Flare metal dragon and Beelze loop, while technically infinite in condition life points will decrease to 0, Coder did to a lp gaining one that does stop because you can theorhetically gain lp to infinity
When you can draw more cards with a maxx c challenge, than a freaking infinite loop
And still lose cause you're playing against drytron
Back in like 2015ish when Snatch Steal was still Limited, I was on YGOPro playing Gimmick Puppets. I had a Gimmick Puppet of Strings, and my opponent summoned a Cyber Phoenix. Then, he activated Snatch Steal targeting my Puppet and chaos reigned.
My Puppet switched to his side of the field, thus falling under the effect of Phoenix which prevented friendly machine-types from being affected by spell cards. This returned the Puppet to my side, where it was again affected. The Puppet then began to rocket between the two fields at a blistering speed without any sign of stopping. I saved a screen capture but my opponent and I eventually had to close the software - we couldn’t even resign. Clearly, the devs hadn’t accounted for this situation in the slightest.
I want to see it
Maybe could do something similar with Crackdown, Jinzo, Amplifier and Chalice/Veiler etc.
@@Skasaha_ do it
@@YohananYGO lmao I ain't wasting gems on that shit.
I'm enjoying this hunt for loops "series" Master Duel seems to be coded in particularly robust ways when it comes to the Dueling gameplay, this one outs at 10 repititions and the last one destroyed one of the cards relevant for the loop
Ive been just following these it is interesting to see how each one is different
I dunno how to feel about this actually. A lot of cheesy decks have their win conditions based on infinite loops resolving in a gamestate that causes a loss for the opponent.
On one hand, it's good that a casual player doesn't have to be subjected to this.
On the other hand, this isn't at all indicative how the game truly functions.
That and ranked play isn't even for a casual player anyways.
This also puts a cap on how much fun you're allowed to make for yourself. Sure some of those cheesy decks aren't fun, but that's still limiting potential creativity.
@@aliesterus1.023 While I understand that in tourney play setting up a loop that prevents your opponent from taking game actions is a win condition, as I understand it the reason that works is because the loop isn't active until the opponent completes the active loop which is an issue for a digital game. It would take more computing power for Master Duel recognize a lock caused by triggered mandatory effects than it does to execute a loop with fail safes to prevent the game from stalling out. I enjoy watching Coder try to produce loops that bork the code in Master Duel as a programmer, and disagree that ranked isn't for casuals. The entire design of Master Duel is to attract players less familiar with Yu-Gi-Oh, I would consider myself a casual in the YGO spectrum as someone who primarily plays MTG when it comes to card games, made the transition for my cardboard crack while DM was still airing. I understand that the modern metagame is largely about constructing a board of negates and/or sticky creatures, but to make a MTG analogy, the loops that stop you from playing the game entirely are like the "Dranith Magistrate" + "Possibility Storm" combo.
@@Fimbulvetr2012 It's not just to prevent the opponent from taking game actions, I meant something like an infinite burn, or something that came up in this very video, forcing someone to deck out with something like Maxx C.
I was actually talking about direct win conditions, not just forcing the opponent into a lock like Pole Position used to do.
@Aliesterus 1.0 fair, I am a bit out of my depth like I said, most of my exposure to infinite loops in ygo have been degenerate things like pole position prior to master duel. As far as something like an infinite burn loop, as a programmer the issue with executing them is memory overflow and such that cause client crashes. Both of mtg's online clients are susceptible to crashing via loops and complex stacks, they function better in paper where you can demonstrate the loop and shortcut from there. I would hope that in the cause of a burn loop the game has a way to recognize the win condition at least
Test this loop with Zombie World and a soul absorbing bone tower... it will still be an "infinite" loop, but since there is an actual change to the game state (milling the opponent) it should keep going until the opponent mills out.
Well Maxx “c” drawing is also a change in game state and that didn’t go infinite, so bone tower shouldn’t either
@@WhiteWolfRQ but i guess the difference is that none of the cards in this loop do anything to advance the game state, it was just maxx c (did nothing for the inf loop)
@@WhiteWolfRQ true, I made that comment pretty early in the video thinking it was over, only afterwards did I notice 70% was left, but I don't take back a comment just because it's inconvenient.
That aside, it adds a 3rd part to the loop that affects the opponent, rather than yourself. Not only that, but it's 2 cards per summon, which can quickly eat a deck alive. 2 bone towers + zombie world, and then setting that combo off is 40 cards milled in 10 goes.
It's not an insurmountable combo to set off, since Pendulum summoning is a thing. Also, it might be possible to extend the loop by adding one-off effects in the middle off it that does not interrupt it.
Finally, using Imperial Iron Wall would prevent the damn thing from being banished when destroyed by battle, making the combo easier to set off, since you could pendulum summon it and 2 bone towers, then normal summon the cat after then crash the guy...
If it doesn't work with Maxx c there's no reason to think it should work with bone tower because Maxx c can actually end the game in that loop but bone tower cannot.
@@BlueLightningSky Bone Tower could for the same reason Maxx C can, it can make effects live, Mandatory GY effects(like Lightsworn Wulf) could be triggered, and some of those may be able to pop Wanghu
Hey coder, could you do a rulings video on master duel? Like how you can monster gate under iblee, or how certain cards interact with one another that are different from tcg? Love the video, keep upt the great content!! :)
im not sure on what interactions u mean but you gotta remember this game heavily uses OCG and ocg cards actually haver different skills cuz of wordings sometimes so that could be a cause of some differences between MD and tcg card interactions
because tributing for monster gate is the cost, since you are activating a spell, iblee sees no issue with it and her effect is only while on field so thats what makes the special summon from monster gate under iblee work
@@doingmybest7802 I think the reason is that Monster Gate is not SURE to summon something.
@@doingmybest7802 this is not true, as to be able to activate any effect you need to be able to successfully resolve it before applying the cost, like how you need a lightsworn in grave to activate lumina even if you could discard a lightsworn for cost
@@Retr0Sk1ll oh huh, well my bad then, i figured that was the case, im sure i even knew this i just didnt think about that lol, appreciate it
that just goes to show how much effort and thinking went into the creation of this game.
I dont say this often but,
WELL DONE KONAMI
Master Duel really just enters duel chat on a judge call and immediately hits em with the "Have a nice day"
I wonder if the game code is programmed to read the cache and if the same effect (Departed's self-summon from GY in this case) appears 10 times, the game simply nullifies the 11th instance.
Also I wonder if infinite loops like Jinzo/Amplifier/Skill Drain/Royal Decree are programmed into the code to be explicitly recognised or does the game simply recognise that there is one and pops a pre-programmed choice.
Is it easier to read the cache or just keep a counter on mandatory effects? Seems like keeping a counter on basically everything wouldn't be too intensive.
Coder did the jinzo loop in another video
@@aidenwren0403 Yep, what I was referring to. I'm wondering how the game did it. How did it know there was an infinite loop and why did it pop Skill Drain.
I highly doubt it'll use cache. In fact it shouldn't use cache (imagine if data is cached, does it mean at some point in time, the data might not be in cache? then I'll trigger infinite loop). It should have detected the cyclic loop, by either actually still having the data on stack which maybe has a linked list or something, and according to the rulings in yugioh, they could have implemented such loop detection.
I would say it's highly likely to be a general logic to prevent loops, rather than specific code for each situation
@@t_kon Yeah if it used a general logic, then it can at least detect the infinite loop. But that still leaves the question of whether it knows what loop it is and how it choose where to step in.
In the case of Jinzo where the loop is in the game state and not a chain of activated effects, why does the game decide to pop Skill Drain?
I'm so proud of the ygo master duel devs
I honestly would have preferred the game to check if the gamestate changes in a way that could determine a winner before breaking the loop. If during the loop a win condition would be met, like a player drawing their deck with Maxx C, or someone getting burned for lethal because of a card effect, why not just play it out?
probably not gonna be fun for both player tbh,,,
There's a loop that Coder will show off later that the game doesn't detect to stop. After the 11th or 12th cycle, the game just breaks the match connection. Which implies to me a memory leak.* So it doesn't matter if it could examine the game state, since the game itself just can't handle SO many mandatory actions or long as hell chains.
*I'm only stating this because it's same issue Shadowverse faces when it deals with infinite loops. The game will eventually shit itself and force the opponent to lose connection. In the case of Master Duel, only the person causing the loop will lose connection, so that's good.
I think the game does burn just fine it just doesn't think that drawing cards could always end in an advancing gamestate. Maybe some shit with GY recycling makes them not wanna do that.
@@radishhat5736 That's not true, even if a player is being burned the loop stops after 10
The way it works in physical yugioh is that after the third loop if there was no net change in the game state then the card causing the loop is to be destroyed. Drawing cards is a net change so the infinite loop fallback system is not properly implemented in Master Duel.
Questions then:
1. Will this be adapted to the physical card game rulings?
2. Does Master Duel allow 10+ loops that can manually be stopped (like if I had Called by the Grave in hand)?
3. What about infinite loop burns like Red-Eyes Flare Metal Dragon vs Beelze of the Diabolic Dragons? It takes 16 iterations to inflict 8000 damage with Red-Eyes' effect. Does it stop at 5000 damage and give me 1 more move to activate an effect?
It is a ruling in the physical game. Any infinite loop with and this is the key part, "no net change" will destroy the cause of the loop. This is primarily done due to timing so that your opponent doesn't waste time with a frivolous loop while they have a higher life total causing them to win when the round timer is over at your local OTS/regional/etc.
The way it is implemented in Master Duel is incorrect however. These things have been done many times in the past to counter Maxx C in OCG by special summing through their opponents entire deck because the loop is causing a net change while Maxx C is active. Now when Maxx C is no longer drawing cards and for three activations of no net change then you would destroy whatever card is causing the loop.
@@FoMScratch yup, the game should not break the loop if its involve a net changes in cards or hp.
@@Bestname_Ever On the one hand I do agree in certain scenarios were there is an a net change it should play out if it results in a win, however I disagreed with this being the case for every net gain loops because if that’s how it work then an infinite Loop that increases your life points or your attack points would be legal. I would have the same problems as ones with no change at all
@@FoMScratch I don’t think it’s accurate to say The game is doing it incorrectly because that implies the game uses tournament rules in the first place, And seeing as you aren’t being timed for doing a match only time for taking your turns (which resets) It isn’t using tournament rules
But I think I am all right with the solution to inflate the loops in the game sense programming every single instance where an infinite loop can result in a game win would be countless and impossible as new ones get discovered that can work with new cards. Although I would like to see MaxC infinite draw and Red eyes burn be the exception
@@FoMScratch I understand the infinite loop with no net change since it's the obvious ruling. My concern is what happened in the video where Maxx "C" was activated but it was still limited to 10 iterations. This causes concerns like with Red-Eyes Flare vs Beelze or stuff like with Maxx "C" because then some infinite loops that would have caused wins might get stopped by the game system.
The "no net change" does not really solve the issue if the changes are increasing life points or ATK/DEF. Even with Maxx "C" involved, chances that some card in a loop would have an effect of recycling itself back into the deck to prevent decking out could still then create a problematic infinite loop. Even if there's no such card yet, there's no guarantee there would be no such effect printed in the future. The good thing about this is that the 10 iteration rule will certainly stop any infinite loop even as future card effects come up.
My concern with it is if this ruling gets adapted into the physical game which would completely change the strategy of many FTK decks, burn decks, and heal decks. That's why I'm asking what are the chances.
I'm absolutely loving this series of videos!!
In Duel Links if you managed to set up an infinite loop that worked off a optional trigger effect, the prompt would not show up after the 49th successful iteration. I'm interested to see what happens if you set up an infinite loop like this in Master Duel. An easy one is a Maji-Gire Panda loop. (Maji-Gire also gives you an easy way to keep track of the amount of times you have looped.)
1. Get Maji-Gire Panda, Ancient Crimson Ape, and Green Baboon Defender of the Forest on board.
2. Have a second Green Baboon in your graveyard.
3. Your opponent puts Slifer the Sky Dragon on their board.
4. Your opponent activates Wonder Balloons and puts 2+ counters on it.
5. Raigeki break Green Baboon, the other one will trigger, you pay 1k, it summons, gets popped by Slifer, Ancient Ape gives you 1k, Green Baboon triggers.
After 49 times, Duel Links will not give you the option to activate Green Baboon.
Another infinite loop using ignition effects that I would be interested to see:
1. Activate Acid Downpour and Imperial Iron Wall.
2. Get Maji-Gire Panda and Wanghu on your board.
3. Put Chain Dog in your graveyard (foolish burial or some way to discard it, you can't control anything but 2 beasts.)
4. Activate Chain Dog, he gets popped, Panda gains attack, repeat.
I was expecting it to declare Wang-hu the problem card and pop it. Interesting.
My face when Master Duel is actually well programmed.
I got Manticore looped for like ten minutes once, probably didn't trigger infinite prevention because it isn't mandatory, so the opponent just kept going until they were about to time out.
Sorry Coder. I tried to infinite loop my sub but RUclips stopped me after 10.
Would be a cool series, Loop Busters
Konami: "Coder will you knock it off, stop trying to break our game-"
More mastermythbusters please I'm loving this series lol
i don't know if you really want this infinite loop of subbing because after the tenth time the subbing doesn't resolve which ends where you started as unsubed.
also i wonder if you could do a turring machine. i think the pieces are there to do it if if you would never be able to do it in ranked but you just need cards responding to this loop but also at some point change what they are doing to make a non determined infinite loop. i don't think someting like that could be detected by any program that isn't specifically searching for that.
Thinking "the pieces are there" for a Turing machine and not naming a single card is a little funny, lol. Have you seen them in Magic? They are very complicated. What are you using for tape in a game with finite field size?
@@jkid1134 something like atk modifier and things triggering if atk gets high low enough. venom swamp blows up any monster with 0 atk automatically. the biggest problem would probably be that we want to take people hostage and the mtg touring machine needs you to end turn. your not allowed to cast spells so it would matter if you always take any action you can but you could still time out. we need something that is soly trigger based. we have outstanding dog maron so there is a way to infinite discard with mandatory triggers and i wonder if you would use an auto clicker to frame perfectly activate effects if that would not take up time. this is something that would need exxesive research but yugioh has some wild card effects that in this perfectly crafted scenario could actually be resolved.
yo coder, I rarely commented on your video, but I have to tell you that this kind of content is really good. Keep making it, good job mate!
Once to "punished" a Rhongo I tried to activate 70+ times a Danger that was Called by. Every activation stopped the timer and reset it from the start of the second, making possible to do 2 activations per second.
Basically I stalled the timer for 25+ minutes on my first turn going second.
This means that if the action is manually performed, despite being constantly the same, it can actually go on more than the 11 "auto-loopped"
I've noticed this too with negated effects (pendulum that was negated by abyss dragon).
I have a replay somewhere of my opponent activating it for 20 min straight. I just turned off chaining and watched the screen until they did something new to negate it as well.
Honestly thought I'd run out of time.
It's so interesting seeing how these interactions work in this game. I think it's kind of good though that Master Duel has a way to stop these loops. I was ready for that Necrovalley interaction though. Gravekeepers are my favorite Archetype. :P
Sharing rn
Konami took the time to program a cap on infinite loops but cant prevent your opponent from knowing if you have a hand trap like max c
turning off auto play?
literally toggle autoplay its in the options menu
You cannot know 100% if the opponent has a Maxx C. It can be a dimension shifter, artifact lancea, etc. You can hide your responses simply by holding right click (to toggle NO chain). This has been in auto sims for the last 18 years. The problem isn't hiding responses. The problem is bluffing that you have a response when you don't. IRL, there are pauses when we think.
It probably detects when a certain board state is repeated x number of times, like the draw condition in chess
The stalemate detection needs a bit of refining, but good to see it's implementation.
The fact it even HAS stalemate detection is wild to me
@@AstralPhnx Lots of games have something in place to stop stalemates. There was a change to Pokemon in the 4th Gen because two Wobuffets holding Leftovers would cause and infinite loop.
Gotta Hand it to Konami for making this right.
GJ
I don't know if Konami did it on purpose, but Sangan litteraly FLOATS after the dice roll.
Just like how it lets us draw a monster after being sent to the gy.
i'm happy that they had the forethought to handle something like this, but not sure if i'm a fan of their way of going about it. it should only end a loop if there is no change in the gamestate. because there are some pretty cool loops that actually facilitate some sort of win condition like the stardust loop in super rejuv exodia, or this with maxx c active. also, it should be able to detect a loop much sooner than 10 reps.
I think they picked 10 reps because there's some things you can only do after enough effects have gone off, like you can bust this at 5 reps with Nibiru because there's been 5+ SS and you can just dump Nib on chain to the revival or kill to pop Wanghu
I wonder if the game is programmed to look at the actions being done, like in the log, and if it picks up the same pattern being done more than 10 times with no player input, it just negates that effect or something. So no matter how long the string is, if it’s the same pattern, Master Duel will pick up on it.
Doesn't detect the Red-Eyes burn loop, though.
@@MansMan42069 Probably because it sees the LP in each instance being a different amount.
Someone did this with Samsara Lotus and it kept summoning under Maxx C until a deck-out happened.
so magical stone excavation your departed while you have maxx c in hand, summon wanghu, draw for exodia?
I wonder if this also applies to red/blue loop for six samurai. It requires player action, but if they don't allow you to perform the same action more than 10 times in a row, does that prevent you from using the loop?
It requires player action. It can be done more than 10 times. However the timer will go down so it doesn't really matter. You'd have to go FAST
Nope, my friend dueled a six sam player on ranked and his opponent did the "loop" at least 20 times but he barely was able to win due the time limit
@6210classick # I think the difference is player interaction. Maybe if they put zone placement on it wouldn't stop after 10? I'm v curious but it wouldn't be infinite anyway. As you would run out of time.
Goddamn, well done Konami. Putting an infinite loop check in there to make sure you don't get stuck in an infinite loop is quite clever.
The reason for the last test is negation of effect in gy in the ocg of negated will not be able to activate again. This i believe is the upperdeck ruling as well.
Ah you guys dont know the shudderwok incident from heartstone? Hahahahaha
It's a good thing that cards of safe return is never coming back.
Loops that can be done manually like Six Samurai with the Gate and Shogun keep generating infinite counters can still be used normally because it's the player who has to manually perform the actions and is up to them to stop.
or they eventually run out of time
Like a yugioh themed Mythbusters. "Deckbusters"
Props to the master duel coders good work.
Glad i saw this, i was gonna try to build the all out attack mj2 deck but if its gonna jus stop the loop after 10, its too risky to bother building.
I can understand Master Duel preventing infinite loops that don't experience a change in game state. But what about loops that do result in changes in game states, kind of like Flare Metal burn loops?
I'll definitely try to point out this one when I do that survey the game keeps asking me to take if it's possible. As that clearly is effecting the outcome of a game with drawing cards.
Welp, I obeyed the sub for the infinite loop, and clicked the subscribe button 10 times.
Yu-Gi-Oh ruling in TCG, any player cannot play a card if it causes a infinite loop it is not allowed. There is a pole position combo where your opponent cannot activate a card because it causes a infinite loop
the first one is as simple as, "how many times you want to summon this monster?". wonder if this should be the response to loops by the ai, instead of simply "fizzling" the problem card.
King Tiger Wang Hu+Dna Surgery+Soul Absorbing Bone Tower+Destiny Hero Departed+Maxx C
Gaia has an animation and Dante does not... that is sad AF
Neither do the God Cards (except Phoenix Ra) or the Sacred Beasts.
What would be better with this loop?
Red eyes burn or Exodia?
Duel Links does the same thing, but instead of Wanghu it was having a face-up Remove Brainwashing while the Departed's owner has a full board. The Departed would be summoned, Remove Brainwashing would attempt to return it to its owner, but since there are no open zones on the owner's field, it's sent to GY instead. The loop only happens 10 times before it gives up.
BUT
does the Departed loop STILL cap to 10 times if it advances the game state? DNA Surgery and Cyber Summon Blaster would burn the opponent for 300 each time Departed hits the field, so it should be able to be used until you win the game. The difference being that Cyber Summon Blaster actually starts a chain unlike Maxx C draws
Shit, Master Duel was made well? hot damn
There is an exception for manually triggered infinite loops like what can be done with rainbow life to farm infinite lp
Okay let’s see what other infinite loops this game can do
And this turns into an ftk some how
In theory you time out a treeborn frog sp loop if you negate it 10 times with a beefed up a Light and Darkness Dragon.
Infinite Loop should declare immediate draw
Now you can start a myth buster series lmao
Six Samurais also have an infinite loop with their two level 3s, Gateway and any other Token card
So no loops? *breaks phone
This is interesting because the catbat/lotus loop still works perfectly fine, though this is because of the effect damage stipulation I guess?
Since it didn't treat Maxx "C" as changing the situation, does that mean you can't tech 2 copies of Manticore of Darkness as an anti-Maxx "C" measure?
This sucks for certain interactions like Red eyes flare metal and beelze king of dark dragons or something. Flare metal burns for 500 beelze gains 500, flare burns, etc
I believe that still works as it's a finite loop, as the burn/damage effect advances the game state, and eventually, a win state will be achieved declaring a winner.
@@Necrophadez I don't know because it is a loop that happens and they may stop at 10 loops, so it will be only 5000 damage. I mean coder could try it out
@LMNTRIX I think since it is only finite, it won't stop at 10 since the game state is advancing and a win condition can be eventually met it doesn't count as infinite, thus bypassing the 10 loop iteration limit.
Slifer/ wangu+ departed +someway to burn lol
Basically we traded Bo3 for a game that busts loops. Almost a fair trade. But kudos to Konami for having at least taken the loops into consideration while programming MD.
Fun fact this also works with samsara lotus
So why doesn’t tiger get destroyed unlike the jinzo one where skill drain gets destroyed? It says in the policy docs that if a loop occurs after one cycle the loop is stopped with whatever is the problem card going to grave. The only reason I can think this is different is because tiger and the d-hero activate.
Edit: But even then the policy docs also state that infinity loops are primarily caused by mandatory triggers, which both of these are.
Told ya Master Duel is too smart for ya.
... the loop fizzles
This is already better programmed than Arena
I can’t be the only one who notices that he ends every word at the end of his sentences with a VERY noticeable and pronounced “uhh” syllable? It’s driving me fucking insane.
is it me or do i keep hearing infinite loopa
What did you expect? You must have no faith in Konami.
Ah, good old Wanghu
its coded to technilcy cap at 16 (chain link limit for the game)
Departed only activating once under Necrovalley is correct, right? It's a trigger effect that checks the current phase, and those are always Once Per Turn. Departed loops if it leaves the GY because that once per turn resets, but since under Necrovalley it's staying in the GY, it's the same copy and can only trigger once.
Actually I thought people know the thing about departed already because somehow of all people, TheDuelLogs already talked about this
Now we need a card that burns for specialsummons
Gizmek uka
wait does this mean my red-eyes burn loop doesn't work? red-eyes burn loop summon red-eyes metal flare dragon, summon beelze of the diabolic dragons, give beelze to opponent via shien's spy/ creature swap, inflicts damage to opponents lifepoints by any means, beezle effect activates due to lose of lifepoints triggering red-eyes effect to inflict damage due to monster effect thus re-triggering beelze effect loop until lifepoint reach 0, if this only loops 10 times that only 5000 damage plus whatever damage was inflicted to start the loop
It works, I've seen replays of people using it
It should work, only infinite loops must be stopped
I'm guessing if you're infinite looping just to infinite loop it doesn't work. What you just described isn't an infinite loop as eventually a winner will be declared.
@@stallschula5431 I guess the game counts losing life as advancing the game state but not drawing cards.
@@MansMan42069 Which is weird because in actual events drawing cards would count as either you draw Exodia or deck out and a winner is declared.
It might have something to do with Maxx C drawing cards instead of a card inside the loop and so the game isn't seeing the loop as causing infinite draws. Could probably be tested further with something like disc commander who personally draws cards instead of maxx c
10:26 - Apparently Departed suffers from 3 stooges syndrome.
I think if i remember right an infinite loop is not legal unless it advances the game state like dealing damage other wise the problem card is destroyed and considered neagted like the jinzo infinte loop
So, what you are telling me is that the loop fizzles, right?
Wasn't there some anime loop that made a monster have theoretically infinite atk?
There is no reason for the loop to break with Maxx C. You are drawing cards therefore the game state is changing and even more so, you will either deck out or draw Exodia. Interactions like this should be in the game. Or at the very least there is no reason for it to happen 10 times and then stop. Either it should happen once, none or until an end is forced because of the changing game state.
It's like the devs said let's just check for how long has it been since forced triggers have repeated and set an arbitrary number at 10 and called it a day. They should check for changes in game state which is very simple to do. Then they should check if those changes would lead to someone winning. It's nice that they care about infinite loops but it doesn't seem like they care enough to give more than a lazy implementation.
Would that mean that one combo with Red Eyes Flare Metal Dragon and Beelze would stop at one point ?
No because the game state is changing. The opponent is losing LP everytime the loop occurs
@@austinnowak5414 Thanks for the clarification man
@@austinnowak5414 I dunno bud, with maxx c the game state is changing but the loop still stop
@@jps_user20 yeah I wrote the comment before I got to that part in the video. Most likely the Flare Metal Beelz loop will only burn for 5000 each time
@@austinnowak5414 but someone in the comment section say that it work with metal flare, dunno how that work
Can we get the Gellenduo Beelze Flare Metal FTK for that Loop? You know "Take Damage and Beelze activates to get a boost, that triggers Flare Metal damaging for 500, triggering the negated Gellenduo which would get destroyed if you take Damage but since Gellen is negated it isn't destroyed but Flare triggers again because of it etc
this is just easier if you skip gellenduo entirely and just give your opponent beelze through a card like geonator transverser or something
its been done. search it. it works.
now you just have to get a Psyframe lord omega in the grave under necro and see if you can keep activating it to see if you can just do it over and over for the 400 seconds just to annoy the opponent or if it makes you stop trying at 10 since its optional
It's been tested already. The game allows you to activate it infinite times however the timer still goes down for that small window where the player has to click on the graveyard and click omega to activate. So it is almost a hostage loop but since the timer will go down eventually, it's not. In YGO Omega, they just put a 10 times per turn cap on psy-frame lord omega, so you can only activate it max 10 times.
Didn't this play get officially ruled by either Konami or UpperDeck that Wanghu and Departed go through the loop one single time, unless a mechanic through which a game ending result will occur (deckout, for instance, or burn)? I could be wrong, but im fairly certain.
What if you perform this exact same loop, but one of you has Chain Energy on field? It'd take 16 iterations to burn all your LP
Chain energy only ping if you play it from hand
What about an optional effect that trigger when a monster is summoned or destroy, will it still work only 10 times?!
Iv learned about these from Duel Logs
What would've happened with Departed in Grave, Necrovalley on field and chaining MST after Departed being negated. Would it activate again then? 🤔
Next question because coder does iblee lock. Can departed resolve under iblee lock because iblee prevents special summons of no links while she's on field
This is awfully similar to how loops are handled in ygopro and omega. There used to be hostage loops even in Duel Links years ago. In Omega, since you gain time per each move, there is a max cap on the time you can gain per turn. There's also a hard limit on certain cards that are not once per turn like Psy-framelord Omega and Necrovalley which can only activate 10 times. I don't agree with how Master Duel handles the Morphing Jar loop because similar to the Destiny Hero Departed, the loop should just end after x iterations. The All-Out Attacks is sent to GY in ygopro/omega after 10 iterations as well. However, in MD, it just disconnects the player which is wrong. For a multi-million dollar company, I'd think they can handle loops and chain links > 16 when fan-made sims can. Also with cases where infinite loops have multiple primary cause cards, the most recently activated should be sent to GY.
Uhh that’s weird I thought loops that don’t change the game state are destroyed due to game mechanics is there something unique with this loop that doesn’t cause this to happen without maxx c being activated ?
You can draw yourself like 10 cards every time