A Lesser Known Method of Shooting a Bow- The Indian Pinch Grip- Short Bow Archery
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- Опубликовано: 13 апр 2023
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Not too dissimilar to some of the many asiatic styles thumb draws. Cool!
came to say the same!
Many of those use a Thumb Ring, especially if your a new user of this methode
They are distantly related to Eurasian Steppe peoples so it definitely makes sense
Looks almost like tenouchi in Kyudo
@johnevergreen8019 no we aren't im tired of hearing that because none of that knowledge came from tribes. Just white guys (and yeah I'm mixed so my skin is white, but I'm the FIRST white person in my family) trying to determine our "origins" because they can't handle we've always been on this land.
@shamanllama bro calm down. Look at pictures of people who aren't 1/128th native American. They definitely derived from asians (a long long time ago, but still did). Native Americans also conquered their land from others along the way. They held slaves, they killed mothers and children, they raped and burned. Just like every other culture on this earth. Native American land was not stolen it was conquered. Just like the natives did to the other natives who own the land.... And the cycle continues around the world to this day
I know it as the Mongolian thumb grip. Excellent when mobile, ie horseback.
in other words only works on recurve composite with horse speed and leaning into the shot, at close range. otherwise you won't pierce anything with a draw strength you can handle on foot at hunting distance.
@@metasamsara not so. I can get full power out of my longbow with the draw technique. It take practice and strong hands.
@@metasamsara you can get insane draw strength with recurve composite rider's bow's
@@h.m.v. yes but the strength is in the composite. if you drew like that on a warbow of 220#, rip your thumb after a day of practice, you wouldnt shoot ever again. there's a reason mongolian warriors used metal or wood reinforced thumb protections. same reason you dont shoot a compound bow with your fingers if you value them. this draw technique was developed because you have a tighter angle on your drawn string on a short recurve bow, this method is poorly adapted to high strength long bows. can you shoot a low strength longbow like this? sure. is it practical? hell no.
@@metasamsara this method is used in Korean archery also, well known for the strength and capacity of their archery. Making such certain claims is fool hardy and I would avoid it if I were you.
I shot hunting weight (45#) compound bows without assistance for years. My fingers are none the worse for it.
I understood that part of the reason for the thumb ring was more for a smoother release, similar to the gloves of the Mediterranean draw. Our fingers tend to have a stickiness to them that can cause inconsistency in the draw and release. I am sure it helped protect, but it also helped with the smooth release.
Again, I would be hesitant to state so certainly about things that are difficult to prove otherwise.
He's doing it!!!! You have no idea how happy this just made me. :)
@@l.patrick2171 He put the arrow on the right side of the bow, Lars Anderson has several videos on it if you are interested in the benefits. Edit: As for the fletching placement, I've been doing it for years, and as far as I can see it has not messed with accuracy, but that may just be the fact that I'm used to it.
This was how I initially learned to draw a bow. I didn't learn that I was "doing it wrong" until I was introduced to European style competitive archery while at university. I grew up in between several tribe lands in the Southwest US. There's constant pressure to assimilate into rest of the US culture, so we're used to being told those old ways are primitive. It's a pleasant surprise to see someone in Scotland respectfully teaching about something close to my home.
Assimilation is important but don't lose your culture
I mean, there's no method. They each have their advantages. The European method is suitable for stationary archers using heavy bows. I think it might also be a bit more accurate.
You from the four corners?
@@Scrublord96 lol. Lmao, even.
Oh boy! 😂 Will you just stfu with the bullshit*t? Whatever it takes to get attention onlin, right? Yes, that's America, roving bands of eurocentric archery instructors out to oppress the Southwesterner children just shooting their bows "like Indians." You effing people never cease to amaze how low you'll go to weave a tale... nor how dumb people are to believe it.
For this technique there are some ring for thumb or you can even use leather
That will provide your thumb relax
I have tried both rings and leather and can say that rings offer more repeatability and less wear on your bowstring (provided you have a smooth surface on the ring face)
One of the issues with the indian pinch grip is the friction of the forefinger will slow the release noticeably in some cases. This is where the asiatic release is preferable as the forefinger over the thumb is a slightly better release. Yes asiatic release also has a two finger release for and index on thumb and its speeds are comparable to indian pinch - however this techniques was only used on very heavy asiatic bows 80+ lbs as a transition to developing strength for traditional release. Khatra is the same in all cases. Given the low poundage of traditional American bows this would first seem an odd release however the alignment of the hand and fingers can make acquiring follow up shots easier and this is where indian pinch excelles.
Indian pinch is clearly meant for accuracy, the biomechanics behind it function very similarly to a modern trigger release, and the fact that to shoot you simply need to relax a finger means you wont be jerking the bow off target on release.
Its like the difference between pull and squeeze while shooting guns.
damn how the fuck do y'all know so much about gd archery
@OfDaSouth When you have a hobby, you tend to immerse yourself in information about said hobby. I'm sure you know a great many things that we do not, Edd Boy!
My whole body is undonitioned.
This was how I taught myself to shoot initially. Ultimately I learned various other ways and ended up settling on my old style for the majority of the time anyway. Didn’t even know it was an officially recognized style until now! Thanks for the info!
If you don't want those thick callouses, try getting a horn archery ring. Basically allows for the string to rest on the horn and not your thumb so it's be more comfortable.
Yes, good point bro. Horn, & if not, hard plastic or smooth metal.
I had a thick leather one 3/4” which was complete protection. Someone threw it out w/ all my stuff & I got another from the same company, but now it was half as thick, noticeably harder on my thumb, & I got a callus, so I started holding the string with the inner side of my thumb while it was pointing down instead of across.
It is much lighter on my thumb, and gave me a better release.
But this would all be a non-issue if I had used an appropriate ring (make & size).
As someone who was very much raised in an olympic archery mentality where there are very specific ways that a shot is made, it is so wonderful seeing the depth and breadth of human creativity and ingenuity.
Taken up a horsebow and a yew longbow now, loving the different styles
Damn, that looks awesome! I need to see more footage of you shooting bows!
In California we mostly know it as the Ishi draw because that’s how it got famous and when he started target shooting he was said to have used a leather tab to keep his thumb from getting worn down by the constant shooting and your right elbow should stay tucked against your body as if pinching some arrows there as to keep them from rattling during the hunt
Californians would call it that. Study the history. Ishi was not the first to loose arrows on the same side of the release hand.Ishi held bow horizontal palm up and arrow on top, which is very difficult to do. Near impossible to be accurate.
I love how when I started shooting everyone had a different name or description for my form but it’s what came naturally. I remember the first time I picked a bow up and shot, nothing felt more natural.
This is how I learned, it just feels natural and comfortable. I never knew! Thanks mate.
You need to turn your arrow around, the three feathers are there specifically so you can turn the arrow the way that one is always pointing away from the bow. When shooting like you do, the arrow would always knock out of the alignment when passing the bow.
Wait until someone tells this guy that Asiatic archery traditions set up the fletching like a modern compound bow (i.e. the cock points up not out)
yeah that's because they use thumb ring technique which turns the arrow sideways, so the fletching actually corrects it@@Petruhafication
@@Nakamura65 if I'm understanding what you're trying to say correctly (sorry English is my second language) when using most thumb draw techniques, we perform what's called khatra (or yugaeri in Kyudo) to get the bow out of the way, so it's the bow moving, not actually the arrow going sideways like it would w/ a 3 finger draw (this is called the archer's paradox). The position of the fletchings makes no difference whatsoever when it comes to thumb release/most Asiatic archery because the back of the arrow doesn't make contact with the bow when khatra is performed properly. Fletching position might play a role in traditions that don't perform khatra like the Gao Ying method, but I don't shoot the Gao Ying method so I couldn't say from experience
I was like "but how does the fletching not hurt his thumb!?" and then you answered at the end haha
Sweet little bow! Glad to see someone using this draw
I’m familiar with this style and it is not easy to master... Nice to see you demonstrating it!
Very cool! I love how there's so many techniques to do the same thing!
Very cool vid, I subscribed again!
LOL, back in the early 80s I was in Boy Scouts, we had an old guy as our den leader and he taught us this exact method. This took me back.
Fun story on archery,
When I was in boy scouts, I did the ARCHERY merit badge class. I was not the best nor the worst, but at I think 13-14 I had one of the longest draws in the class, I never did any measurements, but on a 15lbs draw recurve bow the limbs laid flat. Like perfectly flat. I not thinking that that was safe or normal, asked the instructor, the first one shocked, got the senior instructor, who said it was fine. He never changed the bow throughout the week. But it made the small carbon arrows fly almost flat they had some drop, but it was negligible... every time I shot the two people on either side of me would flinch thinking that this time the bow would explode. And I was reminded that a bow, can be quite loud, and I occasionally had to walk behind the target because the arrow would hit the target but not be there when I would go to retrieve it. Promptly figured out that I over penetrated the target, and the instructor #2 simply said that I was just missing, but the other two instructors came over and saw the arrow was in fact through the target and in the dirt
I never got much into bows but I really do appreciate nice bows, that bow although primitive is an amazing piece of craftsmanship
I’m a descendant from the Aztecs and we use the same technique
Sat on the crapper I would just like some partly funny clips for a few minutes and now I find my self learning how to fire a bow like a lost tribe.. this will be very useful next time I nip to Tesco thanks
I feel like this is a very intuitive grip
Simeon Jimmy getting straight primordial
while this is sooooo geeky, it's so refreshing to see an original channel. Not sure I need to know these things about Bows, but it's a bit cool dude
Thats GENIUS
thats just how i always naturally held notched arrows and everyone always called me weird for it, i had no idea it was a real grip lmfao
great to see Billynomates still LARPing in the woods on his own 👏
looks like how that crazy archer Lars Andersen shoots. That guy is sick. If i was to learn archery, i would only do it like him.
I live in Western Canada on the ancestral lands of the Plains Cree people who used this style of archery with their self bows. A sought after wood for these bows would have been Osage Orange but a large variety of woods were said to be used. The Plains Cree were nomadic and followed the movements of the Bison, making use of seasonal camps when necessary. The children of their societies were adept by an early age at using their bows to contribute wild game for meals and using them in contest to practice their skills. On the Prairies the bow would have been crucial to success when hunting or making war
Interesting technique
That’s really interesting basically what I’ve been doing out of necessity bc I made a very shutty slingshot that works like a bow
Great stuff thank you
First time I picked up a bow, knowing nothing about them, this is the exact grip I tried.
I can see how it would take a bit of time to get one's thumb used to this. Seems like solid mechanical grip, with the finger over thumb locking it in place.
Fascinating.
Interesting that many techniques are still in use.
I was taught how to shoot on the right side when i was a kid. I didn't even know most people shoot from the left until i moved to the states.
Difficult grip with a heavy weight bow. See Lars Anderson vids. I believe he uses this grip as well...
And I thought that was just the way. I have been bullied for it! Seriously. I always thought other people just didn't know how to shoot so they always have silly contraptions! Something just clicked into understanding! Thank you!!!
I remember when I was younger, I was shooting a bow and arrow and I shot the arrow, but the little wing thing got caught on my thumb. It ripped the wing off and it was a carbon fiber bow, so the glue stick to the carbon fiber peeled it up, and it went straight into my thumb, and my thumb was bleeding all over
This is basically archery hookgrip lmao
Oh cool i did something similar by instinct when i was a kid making my own bows
Ive shot bows that wy most of my life , it just works for me .
Building up the thickness in some way could probably help
I've seen a few with tools that help hold the string instead of using the thumb and is released by relaxing the same finger
That is the way I learned to shoot a bow over 60 years ago.
May I ask who from and what region? Thanks!
Queue all of the bow experts in the comments giving their advice without request haha, this looks good and I am keen to give it a try.
Horn thumb rings help, and it is very fast.
Thats exactly how i always shot my bow.
I think this thumb grip is fairly common (if not ubiquitous) with traditions that shoot from the finger side of the bow, often with special thumb rings helping to save the thumb. Do you know if these were used in the tradition you're studying here?
Sweet little bow! What kind of wood is it made from?
I’ve always tried this method but never had much luck even with ample practice.
Reminds me of the grip used in Kyudo too!
It looks almost natural to have your arrow on the right side of the bow if you’re right handed archer. Because nocking an arrow with your right hand on the left side just feels so awkward. But to put it on the right side feels like it makes more sense. Until of course you actually try it and it doesn’t stay on the arrow rest
this was always the right way to shoot. it was changed on purpose to hide the knowledge of real archers.
The way your shooting that is how i was taught yo shoot
A strip of leather for the thumb would work wonders.
weird, I've always used this method and didn't realize I was doing it different
First thing I thought of was splinters
Mongols and Central asians also release the string the same way. Using the thumb. But they used a thumb ring.
Most any grip can be mastered, in time, with practice.
this is how we learned in the Boy Scouts
I've used this method for decades and never knew what it was called. I was a really decent shot with a bow once upon a time to back in the day. Would still be if I could still pull the bow back but thanks to a bad accident I can't do that anymore.
Hey, that's what I do! I didn't know I was being different.
Honestly it's kinda how I naturally held a bow as a kid. Didn't know it was a specific type!
Didn't realize I was shooting in a weird way
This is how I've always shot bows, I've always had a lot more accuracy this way.
I've always thought that's how you normally shoot a bow I was taught by my grandpa to put the arrow on top of my thumb and let it rest while using that technique on the string hand
This is why history went the way it went. Pinch grip on their 20lb draw.
I was never good at bow but my first 5 shots with a rifle where all bullseye. looked like one hole in the target.
the outside shot was used around the world, and not by some, but by all combat archers. its quicker to nock and shoot, as well as aim
That's why Asian archers use a thumb ring
Very similar to Oriental thumb draws. They often have a leather or stone ring on their thumb to help with the thumb draw. I did not know that Indigenous Americans also shot this way...
So when setting up on the right instead of left, does the odd fletching still stay out or is it turned in now?
This is how I was taught
The native amaerican also used the same arrow launcher (not a bow ) as prehistoric
Affective on horseback like thumbdraw
Never seen this in native American archery. This is more known to asiatic archery and they use a thumb ring to prevent damage to the thumb. The native style pinch grip is done with an arrow that has a slightly bulbous nock. Simply pinched between thumb and knuckle, and drawn to the chest.
no one but the cowboys saw red archery, now days, only 1 in 3000 native men now how to make a bow, let alone how to shoot like the ancestors
@@joshbarbone189 false. I'm from Oklahoma, I've been making bows for 15+ years, and native American archery traditions are still very much alive. Not prominent, but alive. There are numerous books on the subject. Check out the Traditional Bowyer's Bible series, or Cherokee Bows and Arrows by Al Herrin. My statement on nocks being slightly bulbed for the type of pinched draw I'm describing is also backed by archeological data. This draw was common for short horse bow type setups.
Ive instinctually shot like this without knowing
I find it hilarious that a European is an "expert" on how my people shot our bows.
Bowman up the 17/18 century rested the arrow right hand side. I believe the resting the arrow on the left when archery became a woman's sport some around the 17/18 century.
Index fingers were used to aim down like with a rifle.
This is the same method that Central Asian equestrian peoples used, but with a thumb ring on which the tendon was placed.
You just demonstrated the Asian Draw.
We generally used bows at rather close range, so you really don't need a heavy draw weight to mimic traditional technique.
This is the only way I have ever shot a bow.
our people used a leather or bark guard for an unconditioned thumb. turn your arrow around too.
Everyone who had bows also used that technique.
Could you design the fletching to pass alongnthe thumb easier? It seems the cordage is what gets you?
Reminds me of the manchu grip
You need a wooden ring for yout thumb. That will help you not get hurt. That's a popular style of shooting in Asia, you can order your thumb rings from China, Mongolia, etc... there are metal thumb rings too...
Hey guys I’m just a regular person but I’m interested in this bow hobby (or whatever it’s called) how do I get into it?
Toda mi vida agarre la flecha de esa manera y nunca mire un vídeo, lo llevo en el ADN 🧬
This position looks easy as a left handed. Don’t know if that matters much
I just naturally use it this way, fingers gotta be strong though
What material did u use for the string of that bow?
Get a thumb ring. That will protect your thumb.