I remember back then the big regional metal club here in the Southeast tried that pay to play scam, and got boycotted by every band for 3 states around. Hard to keep the lights on in a 1500+ capacity venue, if there isn't anyone coming through the door. They folded.
@@Lengsel7 That's when you rent out space or see if someone is willing to let you play in a space they own. Underground scene begins right then and there.
It was going on in Nasvhille when I moved there in 93. The cannery was one of the few rock clubs, multiple acts a night and you had to "sell" you own tickets to get the gigs. Many was not flowing back then, and you ended up just giving them away to your friends, which in most cases, the same friends of the other eight bands on the bill. I had friends that asked me about nashvegas and wanting to move (same old story of big fish/big ego small town guys that thought they were going to rule Nashville). I told them to stay where they were unless they were fond of starving. I absolutely LOVED that scene back then, but it is dead as door nail. I cherish the memories and friendships that I made, but the system is STACKED against you. The club owners and industry people prey on these guys. It is corrupt to the bone.
@@badbrad I just watched your Jake Update. Hands down, by far my fav ozzy guitarist. I have lost all respect for Ozzy and that ties into your video. He screwed over his sidemen, that WROTE his albums. I wore out those badlands albums.
I have a similar story back when I was trying to be a rockstar. I got really lucky however, when I got to the L.A. area I auditioned and got involved with guys that were out there for a few years... they already had a base of people to sell tickets to, and they already had a catalog of promoters to choose from. We always ended up selling all our tickets and in the process made enough for expenses(renting a small trailer etc etc)... I often thought, without this advantage... a band just coming there trying to break into it. Financial suicide, or nearly impossible from what I saw.
If you own and operate a club, expenses are horrendous as they are with most any business. Also Owners invested in the clubs and are seeking the make the most money possible as with any business. (Note: they aren’t doing it for the love of music. That doesn’t pay the bills) Given the cost and objectives. owner can’t take a chance on an unknown band that doesn’t bring anyone in. So bands have to essentially “rent” the space and their spot on the docket to secure a gig. It’s not “fair” to struggling musicians as it increases the threshold. Life isn’t fair though, never has been. The music biz had never been fair either. Never has been. Slash was right. It ain’t a problem if your band is good enough.
I came on to the Hollywood scene in 1991 and was in the thick of it until 2012 paying to play the Whiskey, Roxy, Key Club and many others, we had a lot of great shows opening for huge international bands. My first experience with pay to play was with club prompter Mike Giengreco (spelling???). He booked the Roxy and Whiskey and was a total slimeball. Classic wannabe mobster. IMO, he helped destroy the Hollywood / Sunset scene. Prior to him bands like SHOCK, Reality, Poison, Motley Crue and tons more used to work hard to get people out to the shows and you ONLY got a spot on the bill if you could actually play your instrument, put on a show and bring in a crowd. After pay to play, any band with $1000 was on the stage. Bands just paid the money, the club got paid and there was ZERO people in the crowd. In just a short period of time, the scene was done. Time and time again I went to the Whisky and there was some garage band on stage who had paid $1000 to "Play the Whiskey" and the place was a ghost town. Bands that had no business being on stage and literally were using the place as a rehearsal space. Bands that had no gear, no skill and no crowd. I've seen bands with little tiny 10" practice amps on stage, all standing facing the drums mumbling to each other trying to tune their guitars for 10 minutes until someone finally threw a 30 gallon trash can at them on stage. That's what Mike Giengreco brought to the strip. For more than a decade the Sunset Strip was a ghost town of garbage bands paying to play and $10 beers.
I was thinking the same. But it's not wrong to be a 2nd or 3rd tier band where there is most competition. The 2nd and 3rd tier need to hustle to have some edge over the next just as good band. OR in some rarer cases they might be SO good that the simple tasted public isn't equipped to fully appreciate it. I feel sorry they want it so bad they kinda sell their integrity. That's the Hollywood thing. At the same time there are so many who don't have another option unless it's another crummy job. The industry uses people for the predicaments they're in.
@@SupaFUZZZZZZ All these musicians have this entitled attitude that there’s no success without them. I suppose Slash has to be credited with the distinctive lick on Sweet child o mine but he’s a non factor otherwise. Anyone can wear shades and a hat. G & R was Axil Rose and his shenanigans which summed up 99% of their entertainment value. And that’s all there is at the end of the day. Entertainment value. You’re going to find great players if walk into a bar or club in a place like Nashville and people will just keep walking. Then, everyone will loose their minds when someone like Olivia Rodrigo is coming to town and the whole crowd will sing every last word of every song because it means everything to them. There’s no way to understand why people are like that and it’s not just because she’s pretty. It’s some kinda magic maybe. Who knows.
This is one of the many reasons the music business is dead. The insatiable greed and scum baggery is just too much for the paying fans to stomach any longer. Hollywood and the music business are pure sleaze.
I loved that it used to be a grass roots type of way to market one’s band. One-on-one. You had to really convince people why they should come see your band over another popular band that may have been playing up the street. We always prided ourselves on our live show and we always built ramps, skrims, blinders (towers of bright white lights) and rented double the production other bands used. Yes, there were better bands technically than we but we always left the crowd talking for days afterwards. We even had an old Greyhound bus that our manager converted into a tour bus that we’d park outside the front of the venue. It was all about presentation.
@@ronwilliams1094 Coo, l great comment, I was thinking similar things, these guys were definitely building life skills, maybe unknowingly but just the same how to sell and present themselves still paying dividends to this very day.
So glad to see you talking about this... When I was playing in Hollywood and LA, (80's) all the musicians I knew back in Dallas and elsewhere around the country, couldn't believe it when I told them about playing at these legendary clubs, AND having to pre-purchase a hundred or so tickets to do so.... The venues made sure they at least broke even... Crazy stuff...
In Jersey we had a similar situation we would have to sell 20 tickets at 10 dollars then we would get a dollar a ticket for the next twenty after that we would get two dollars a ticket what we would do, we would stand outside the show and sell the tickets for eight bucks so people would buy them from us and then if we got any money, we would just buy as many tickets as we could with the money that we made because they determined the headliner by how many tickets you sold and that is how you got better gigs. I despised doing that when I was growing up I knew guys that were older than me 510 years older than me and then we go out to a place employee and then we get paid for it. Originals never paid as much as covers they would tell us that’s why you blend your originals in with your cover. She just play cover gags eventually they would start liking your song too about the 80s Times. It changed wasn’t the 60s and 70s anymore the scammers had learned how to scam the rock sene.
Ha, I remember those days trying to sell my friends tickets to studio one, obsessions, cricket club, that place in Jersey city where you could pay to get the video tape from Randy rocks, and many others. It was a great time at 16 years old.
Dear Brad: This is only the 2nd video I am watching and it caught my interest; I saw the "regrets" video before. I see the band *SHOCK* you mentioning and have video inserts, unfortunatley not so good quality, so I can't tell if its the Country Club in Reseda or The Whisky. I saw a band called *"SHOCK and The Night and Day Horns"* at the time in Hollywood. You guys put on a great show and were different to all the other bands I saw and I saw a LOT. I even had a shirt you guys throw in the audience, it was a white shirt with the SHOCK logo and Night and day horns below. I do remember people asking me who on earth that is, because nobody in Europe knew of you guys when I wore that shirt! :-) Talked to you guys at the club, you may remember this as I am from Germany. I believe you were one of the opening bands at a TUFF concert in the Country club, right? Or was it a show in the Gazzaris or the Roxy, sorry for not being sure, I knew I saw Belgium there, probably that. Could not find your name I try to research on the net or the band you had in display behind you when I tried to find your drummer, sorry? Need to look at my old BAMS or Screamer or L.A. Rock Reviews; have tons of demos from back in the day, I am pretty sure I do not have a SHOCK demo as you had not one as a member of your band, probably yourself, told me when I was at that gig in Hollywood fall 1988, either September or October 1988. You're right, a band like TUFF (long before they got signed!) or TAZ could sell out the country club on two nights at that time and the three opening bands needed to sell tickets (for the headliner). Remember Ana Black and Tryx too, of course. I really like your videos and I will watch more; I do very good remember these pay to play thing, remember I have lots of flyers with 2 tickets attached to the flyer already, which was weird for me to experience. Sorry for my long post - Kind regards from Germany.
Man very cool! I joined Shock around 89-90 so it’s likely you saw them with the bands original guitarist Robbie. By the time I joined we were headlining the Roxy. I remember those shirts. The Country club ended up being in trouble for underage drinking king so they closed that for a while. So many memories of those times. Eventually Shock had to change the name due to a cease and desist from another band. We changed the name and members to become Boy Elroy. The footage in the video was from The Roxy.
Pay to play was a practice in many of the NYC and Long Island clubs from back in the day that some of the venues still go on today. I refuse to ever do that.
Sounds like you guys were total players to get these girls to your shows! Nice hustle! Unfortunate, but I imagine you had some "fun" on the side. 🤘😂 Love it!
Philly didn’t really have a pay-to-play scheme back in the day. The few main clubs, The Empire, The Galaxy, etc., where bands like Cinderella, Britny Fox, Tangiers, and Heaven’s Edge came out of just wouldn’t book you again if you didn’t pack the room. Even then you would probably just get relegated to an opening slot, since there were always 2 or 3 bands each night. The best flyer scenario was if there was a national show at The Spectrum prior to your gig where you could walk the concourse and hand flyers directly to people and talk. Like you said, putting them on random car would’ve been a waste.
Man, as soon as you heard 'tickets' I picture you and your friend Pete looking at each other and simultaneously mouthing 'F*** that S***' before you got up and walked out. Thanks for telling it like it is, your videos are like a glimpse of the school of hard knocks that some of us really need.
Back in the middle late 90s I played in Europe in a band called Killer Bee. We were a kick ass hard rock band. We did really well in Switzerland, Austria and Germany. in around 1996 Bon Jovi was coming to play Stockholm. We really wanted to get on the gig but if we wanted to even be the opening act, we'd have to pay Bon Jovi $10,000 U.S! Hell no!! We knew that we'd get shit sound, crap monitors and nobody cares or remembers the opening act. We once opened for Frampton and the monitor guy tried to screw us totally. He just kept messing with our on stage sound but we're mostly form Toronto Canada. We've had it tougher. Because we were known in Zurich, we had the crowd singing along with us by the second song! Piss on pay to play!
And to just think Brad, I used to look down at my home town boys for being locked into a day job and being in a weekend party and wedding band and sayin to my self- "what a bunch of loosers. They will never make it as a pro and dont have the balls like I have to move to LA and make it". Boy, was I ever wrong! lol. I made the move and got stuck in the 'pay to play' crapola... While I burnt out from all the BS and corruption and no longer play, 30 yrs later these hommies are still gigging and raking in big bucks on weekends etc.
I begged my band to go to LA in 84. I told them we should live in the van if we have to.we had some good originals too. Everyone had some excuse why we didnt need to go.I was the first to quit, got into real estate, im secure now, the other guys are mowing lawns and stuff. I sure dont have any regrets after watching these segments!
That Brad was another BRILLIANT vid my brother!! Oh my God ..I heard all the horror stories from our rival band here in Eugene, Oregon, who took the trip down to LA in 88’ to “Expand Their Horizons”..besides the seediness of the whole music business down there, they to found out about the pay to play BS!! They had high hopes of glandular success, but in the long run they ended up coming home as starving musicians, they had to pawn off some band equipment just for food and fuel to make it back to Oregon..we didn’t laugh or rip into them, we padded them on the back and welcomed them all home. We were still rivals trying to upstage them on our scene..but we never had the pay to play up here.. it was pretty much $400-600 dollar gigs..and we all had day jobs..in the mills around here!! Thanks again my friend I loved this one!! Shoot they are all pretty much top tier!! ♠️🎸♠️
A band i knew went to LA had to live off subway sandwiches. They would squirt shampoo on top of their head, jump the fence at a hotel and jump in the pool for a quick bath
my old thrash band used to play a lot around back then especially the Troubadour back in the late 80s 90s, we would book upstairs during the week, guy upstairs would book us with Gina, they would let you play a weekday at first, they asked and counted the people who went in and who they came to see, they also gave free tickets to hand out that said two drink minimum all ages but they didnt enforce it, once you brought in a good amount of people then you would qualify to book with proper bands on the weekends. The Troub was never a pay to play back then, i believe thats why it was easier for some bands to do pay to play at the clubs and think they were rock stars instantly. We did some pay to plays but only super reasonable ones where we would divide the amount and sell the tickets reasonably priced. Some "promoters" got super greedy with trying to charge a whole lot to do pay to play which was a NO NO! Best place to flyer were big concerts on all the cars it helped. Talking about sales pitch experience our singer was from out of town and did telemarketing we got some killer shows because of him and even booked through Goldenvoice because of him and others.
A guitarist I played with back then in Philly had been out there and saw how hopeless that scene was in L.A. He told me that an A&R rep he met at one of the clubs told him you might as well go home and play in your local market, and if you're the hottest thing in your metro area, they would fly out to check you out and sign you if you were good enough.
Comedy clubs want you to bring a certain amount of people to a show for you to get stage time as a new person. Record companies would hire record promoters to plug records. The bottom line is that these are businesses and they expect you to sell seats and records. This is the business of show and it is not a religious retreat.
@badbrad I played the strip right around that same time and a few years earlier. I was the guitarist in a band called Redline. I was friends with the guys from Racer X. We usually opened for them. We also headlined and played with Warrant, Lita Ford and a ton of other great bands. Home base was in Lancaster, CA, which was quite a drive. We had a lot of local support. We'd rent 2 greyhounds and turn them into party busses. Each bus was stocked with a keg or 2. people could ride safely to the gig, drink, see all the bands, and safely get home. Our busses were always sold out and we'd usually end up asking for more tickets to sell on nights we didnt headline. Usually, the headlinee didnt have to sell tickets, but all the opening acts had to. It was that way at the Reseda Country Club and Troubadour. I dont recall my band ever needing to sell tickets at the Roxy or Whiskey, but we usually headlined those 2 places.
@@badbrad Along with handing out flyers, do you remember Warrant's sex hotline? LOL Man, those guys really knew how to take marketing up a notch! They created a phone number where people/girls could call to talk with them. The caller paid by the minute and Warrant raked in some extra money.
I came up through the punk and hardcore scene. Bands all worked together and networked and helped each other. I loved those days. No pay to play, and it was all about the music.
LOL, did the same thing in 1988. Got there in April of that year. A little late in the game when LA metal was dying. Never got into a band but worked for an "office supply" phone sales gig that turned out to be be a total scam. It was on Beverly Blvd. While the rock star dream didn't work out I cherish the fact I got to experience LA in the 80s.
Gazzarri’s was a pay to play club back then. The Waters Club in San Pedro was a good club to play back in 1989. Your videos bring back lots of memories.
great stuff Bad Brad, growing up and playing gigs all through the late 70s and 80s all these things you discussed applied in NYC as well. I remember a lot of us, including myself, would wear a black army surplus field jacket, you and your friends could buy a case of PBR long necks and each duuude could carry 6 bottles in the pockets. We would yell the secret code word when we saw the cops were around, Then I became one 🤣. Good times
My buddy had a band SMC Cartage on the strip back in day. They had like 5 tickets left to sell otherwise they wouldn’t have gotten the gig. The guy’s mom bought the last 5 tickets and sent some family members to the show.
When the Pay to Play hits a market it pretty much kills the local live music scene. You ended up with kid bands doing covers with the only audience being the bands parents and the singers girlfriend. All of the music fans stop going to the venue and the venue dies. I saw this in West Chester PA, Columbia MD and Jacksonville FL. Back in the 70's and 80's we always got the door and had our own PA and made decent money playing stuff kinda like The Cramps. Selling out 200-400 capacity bars and small venues. Never did pay to play when it started hitting the NJ metal venues.
We paid The Roxy $1,000 to play. They gave us 100 tickets, had to sell them for $10 apiece to make our money back. We gave them all away for nothing, lost our ass, but played the Roxy opening for Jailhouse/Rough Cutt to a packed house.
Very interesting to hear how the scene in Nashville compared to LA. Unfortunately pay to play is still alive and well I believe. I formed my first band in California around 2010 and that was how it was for the majority of shows. 15 year old me didn’t know any better
I hate the whole pay-to-play scam... Many times, random "business" men would rent a large venue and lure new bands to play to get exposure, fans, etc and would say you need to sell X number of tickets to play a short set.... You would sell quite a few tickets (and hand over the ticket money to the promoter) and after the set, the guy would give your band a small fraction of what you earned them and then you felt cheated. Many bands that we knew (after getting cheated the first time) just kept most of the money or would sell only one ticket (and yes, we still got to play our set to a large crowd).
What you do is have about a dozen friends, all wearing trench coats with deep inside pockets , come in and sit at the bar and every time the bar tender was at the other end of the bar and not looking, the friends grab bottles from behind the bar and stick them in the pockets. Each friend can keep one bottle as a commission for their work and the rest goes to the band.
That’s funny you mention that social security statement. It showed the years when partying changed to full time jobs .its amazing how cheap you could live on and still be happy jamming and partying ,and working , I’m lying about the working part..
I "paid to play" the Whisky A Go Go last year. Didn't regret it at all. I wanted to be on that stage ever since I bought my 1st Johnny Rivers Whisky album.
LISTEN Bad Brad - FOR REAL: My cousin's best friend worked for the Maglieri family for years and gave me the scoop about Pay to Play....Basically, Mario Maglieri who was an owner of the Whisky a gogo (the partner of Elmer Valentine & Lou Adler) helped hatch up the idea with a promoter named Mike Giangreco (along with Bill Gazarri) and Mario did not care ONE BIT about music or the scene - he was a former cop from chicago (corrupt to boot) that was brought in by lou adler to clean up the stealing that was going on at the whisky back in the 60's (by the staff) and he eventually became partners and then sole owner of the whisky... He only cared about money (he actually had camera's installed in the Rainbow Bar & Grill and directly to his room in his house- where he was in his last year of life, trying to have a miracle recovery from being bedridden with cancer, so he could make sure his staff wasn't stealing from him while he wasn't there - he just couldn't let go, even at the end) and knew that bands would be so desperate to play a shitty run venue like the whisky (whisky stayed legendary because of the Doors residency, but it actually was run by a nasty woman named Tisa) that they would "pay to play" and this ended up being capitalism at it's worse...It was continued by his grandson Mikey who used the pay to play model on all the hardcore and metal bands that came thru the whisky later...Unfortunately, now, Mario Maglieri is gone, and so is his son Mikael, but pay to pay lives on with his grandson Mikey.
Down here at weekend warrior level, I have this friend who isn't that good but is highly motivated. He has done the "pay to play" several times, and used it to get into clubs. His thing is unabashed self promotion. The result is claims and pictures of himself playing many of the major clubs in Toronto. Three of us backed him up once in 2011, when his band quit a week before the show. It was different in that we all got paid for playing originals on a Monday night opener at the legendary Horseshoe Tavern. So now I have video of me on the same stage as many, many top artists through the decades. I looked at it like, I got paid $100/hr incl. 2 beers from the bar for 40 minutes = $60 + 2 beer and bonus of playing originals live. It's enough for me. Cheers!
Save your good stuff for an awesome book Brad. Color photos, names, places, etc. Original song lyric sheets, pictures of the down and dirty back parking lots of the scene. You aren't a hater so it would be awesome. Maybe like a memoir vignette centered on each photo of each dive bar club. Just thinking out loud. You probably have considered this. Do it before Otis does.
Norfolk and Va Beach are pay to play, sort of. You buy all of the tickets from the venue, and sell them for whatever you want, or can. Edit: I experienced this in 2005-2010
For very brief periods of time, musicians are treated ok. Mostly treated like crap by greedy people over time. I'm too old for this shit. I play once in a while for fun. One thing they never teach in guitar lessons is how to get booked. Teaching is pretty fun (last job before disability) and I may pick it up on a limited basis. What do you tell students when they get stars in their eyes? All I know is bass players can usually find work. There is always that one guy who can get gigs. These are very interesting stories.
Thank God back in those days there were very few places that did pay to play in NY and SF. At the very least if you didn’t get paid anything youd at least get a few drink tickets.
Interesting, I just recently discovered this channel and enjoy the content. I was never a professional musician but was just looking at my pension statement ( Canadian version) and noticed some lost years in the eighties as well. I guess wasted youth is a thing for a lot of people. Cone to the think of it not a bad band name, wasted youth.
I don’t do the pay to play . Last show we opened for Leftover Crack . Touring punk rock band . The promoter gave us 20 tickets to sell . We got to keep the money . That’s how we was paid . I gave deals and gave a few away . We made 160 bucks , not a lot but got to play the bigger club in town . Plus open for a larger band . We played 2nd right before them . I’ll do that but never pay upfront for the tickets.
As an Original band we made a vow to never do the pay to play and we never did we would say no thank you. we ended up tour for ten yrs with easy rider rodeo great times. we never went big but we warmed up 30/40 great groups that were or ended up famous wish it was us but we had a great time Drowning pool even wore one of our 4WARNED t shirts in an interview felt very cool
I decided when I came to Nashville, no more bands. I had had it with the BS and besides I didn't have time for it. My fellow band mates who moved here with me were in a band call Seance and they were really good. They played at Cantrell's and the Exit Inn and I believe the Cannery. I would go see them but I never once wanted it back. Remember when Nashville banned putting up flyers on phone pole?
Yeah, its Still going on out there. Seems there are different levels for bands and different levels for clubs. Seems bands start out with the lower level bars or clubs that have limited clientele they want you to sell tickets or you get the “how many people can you bring” when talking with the club owner or manager. I have realized that these places don’t have many regulars and they will let any shitty band in the place if you can bring some people with no worries of running off any regulars because they don’t have any. Next step up is the established bars,clubs or wing joints anyone you can bring is a plus but not a deal breaker however if you can pack the place its usually = more $ they have a established clientele and just want good music at a reasonable volume and not run those people off. 3rd stage is you are playing rock clubs or large bars by now hopefully you have developed a following and people will show up when you play, you get paid on how good the band is and your draw. THEN there is the Bad Brad Stage you get to go out and rock the 🌍 world
I knew a phenomenal guitarist in Houston who went out to MIT (GIT). The guy could play Sagovia, Chet Atkins, Paul Gilbert and the Theory he knew 🤯. He came back after 7 months and said it was all BS. Talent was not enough. Got a good song? Better keep it to yourself because people were willing to get on their knees for just a taste so if you think they wouldn't Rob you of Money, song, food. Im sure there are correct steps to cutting in line but is it really worth it or is it better to work and record at home. Fun has many faces
LOL..One of the clubs gave us tix. And they labeled your band on it. And when those tix came through the door. The band would get 1 buck a ticket. So, I asked for hundreds of tix. And we literally put them on car windows in the parking lot of this venue. And the rest we threw in the streets. Hell, WE SOLD OUT THAT NIGHT .And made Hundreds of bucks. i remember the club owner ,sending his workers to the streets to find out where these people are getting these tix. LOL. Good thing we sold out. There wasn't any evidence left.
My opinion for clubs would be to book bands at least 3 weeks out. Give a pocket size flyer or pamphlet give to bands. To hand out. Band just plays for free to start. Reduce Flyers waste. And Bands go to tourist areas and hand out. Then have a battle of 3 to 4 bands every week. And a open jam every week. All wins! My opinion
Knowing what I know now, if I were a club owner I’d have a perpetual ‘battle-of-the-bands’ every weekend. You don’t have to pay the bands… each band will bring as many people/customers with them as possible… you could charge a cover charge and take a percentage of that as a cash prize for the “winners”… rinse and repeat every month.
Even payola had a bad named after it: The Payola$ were formed in Vancouver, Canada 🇨🇦. Paul Hyde and Bob Rock 🎸 were the constant members. Payola and other events happen in just about every nation. In my travels throughout Asia 🌏, I come across singers and bands which ought to be on radio 📻 there and, for the great ones, ought to be playing in Western nations. Example. The Philippines 🇵🇭 is a hotbed 🔥 for singers. David Foster is selective on who performs with him. Morissette Amon was the big pick last year, 2023. So many other singers are also great but do not get as much PR as her! Too many left 😪 out!
I was there to much 🎉 fun.... It was hard for me Never made it but did open for Queensryche with Exception it was a lot of fun i played guitar and bass...62 and still playing hard rock.we headlined at gazzari's for a while and then we had to start paying to play and that kind of messed everything up
Led Zeppelin kinda started this, didn't they? They took on the cost of renting the venue and buying the advertising, but also took 80% of the profit over the promoter. This had never been done before, but Zeppelin knew they could sell out and so didn't mind the cost of producing their own concert..
For $10,000 to Kathode Ray Productions, your song will play on Lightning 100 radio all summer long. It does work, your video will go on tv and the song will be remembered, especially if it's a disgusting ear worm, whether if it's good or not.
@@badbrad For a time, when big..er name bands came to NYC to play large venues, Term 5, Hammerstein whathaveyou, there would be a night before or after show at a more local venue in Brooklyn where thered be an after party usually a nearby rooftop loft or basement shared with the opening band. I was spoiled to hell and only realized it towards the end of my run there.
Bernie Taupin, Robert Hunter, Jimmy Webb....It may not be as glamorous but sit at home and write great lyrics and songs. You'll make plenty of money if that is good enough for you. There are thousands of players but only a few great writers.
now you've got "Live Nation" stealing from you
Indeed.
@@badbrad scandal is makin the news here
The many faces of ‘payola’ never really ended.
Seemingly so.
I remember back then the big regional metal club here in the Southeast tried that pay to play scam, and got boycotted by every band for 3 states around. Hard to keep the lights on in a 1500+ capacity venue, if there isn't anyone coming through the door. They folded.
Wow!!!😮
And then the scene died, right? No other clubs took the risk, right? All those boycotting bands folded shortly after also, right?
@@deductivereasoning4257 Exactly....Now you've got no place to play, and people have no place to see local music.
@@Lengsel7 That's when you rent out space or see if someone is willing to let you play in a space they own. Underground scene begins right then and there.
It was going on in Nasvhille when I moved there in 93. The cannery was one of the few rock clubs, multiple acts a night and you had to "sell" you own tickets to get the gigs. Many was not flowing back then, and you ended up just giving them away to your friends, which in most cases, the same friends of the other eight bands on the bill. I had friends that asked me about nashvegas and wanting to move (same old story of big fish/big ego small town guys that thought they were going to rule Nashville). I told them to stay where they were unless they were fond of starving. I absolutely LOVED that scene back then, but it is dead as door nail. I cherish the memories and friendships that I made, but the system is STACKED against you. The club owners and industry people prey on these guys. It is corrupt to the bone.
Man you know it!!
@@badbrad I just watched your Jake Update. Hands down, by far my fav ozzy guitarist. I have lost all respect for Ozzy and that ties into your video. He screwed over his sidemen, that WROTE his albums. I wore out those badlands albums.
👍
Just like the Masquerade in Atlanta. Biggest bunch of scum bunnies on the planet.
I have a similar story back when I was trying to be a rockstar. I got really lucky however, when I got to the L.A. area I auditioned and got involved with guys that were out there for a few years... they already had a base of people to sell tickets to, and they already had a catalog of promoters to choose from. We always ended up selling all our tickets and in the process made enough for expenses(renting a small trailer etc etc)... I often thought, without this advantage... a band just coming there trying to break into it. Financial suicide, or nearly impossible from what I saw.
If you own and operate a club, expenses are horrendous as they are with most any business. Also Owners invested in the clubs and are seeking the make the most money possible as with any business. (Note: they aren’t doing it for the love of music. That doesn’t pay the bills) Given the cost and objectives. owner can’t take a chance on an unknown band that doesn’t bring anyone in. So bands have to essentially “rent” the space and their spot on the docket to secure a gig. It’s not “fair” to struggling musicians as it increases the threshold. Life isn’t fair though, never has been. The music biz had never been fair either. Never has been. Slash was right. It ain’t a problem if your band is good enough.
I came on to the Hollywood scene in 1991 and was in the thick of it until 2012 paying to play the Whiskey, Roxy, Key Club and many others, we had a lot of great shows opening for huge international bands. My first experience with pay to play was with club prompter Mike Giengreco (spelling???). He booked the Roxy and Whiskey and was a total slimeball. Classic wannabe mobster. IMO, he helped destroy the Hollywood / Sunset scene. Prior to him bands like SHOCK, Reality, Poison, Motley Crue and tons more used to work hard to get people out to the shows and you ONLY got a spot on the bill if you could actually play your instrument, put on a show and bring in a crowd. After pay to play, any band with $1000 was on the stage. Bands just paid the money, the club got paid and there was ZERO people in the crowd. In just a short period of time, the scene was done. Time and time again I went to the Whisky and there was some garage band on stage who had paid $1000 to "Play the Whiskey" and the place was a ghost town. Bands that had no business being on stage and literally were using the place as a rehearsal space. Bands that had no gear, no skill and no crowd. I've seen bands with little tiny 10" practice amps on stage, all standing facing the drums mumbling to each other trying to tune their guitars for 10 minutes until someone finally threw a 30 gallon trash can at them on stage. That's what Mike Giengreco brought to the strip. For more than a decade the Sunset Strip was a ghost town of garbage bands paying to play and $10 beers.
Wow did not know that.
I saw an interview with Slash and they asked him about pay to play. He laughed and said if your band was good enough, it wasnt an issue.
I was thinking the same. But it's not wrong to be a 2nd or 3rd tier band where there is most competition. The 2nd and 3rd tier need to hustle to have some edge over the next just as good band. OR in some rarer cases they might be SO good that the simple tasted public isn't equipped to fully appreciate it.
I feel sorry they want it so bad they kinda sell their integrity. That's the Hollywood thing.
At the same time there are so many who don't have another option unless it's another crummy job. The industry uses people for the predicaments they're in.
🤣🤣🤣. We would have never heard of slash if not for AR. Guitar players like Slash are a dime a dozen.
@@timsmusic7349 this is true. Any session guy could do his stuff. AR was not replacable.
He's funny. It was somebodys problem at one point because he was a nobody once and kinda still is. Has been.
@@SupaFUZZZZZZ All these musicians have this entitled attitude that there’s no success without them. I suppose Slash has to be credited with the distinctive lick on Sweet child o mine but he’s a non factor otherwise. Anyone can wear shades and a hat. G & R was Axil Rose and his shenanigans which summed up 99% of their entertainment value. And that’s all there is at the end of the day. Entertainment value. You’re going to find great players if walk into a bar or club in a place like Nashville and people will just keep walking. Then, everyone will loose their minds when someone like Olivia Rodrigo is coming to town and the whole crowd will sing every last word of every song because it means everything to them. There’s no way to understand why people are like that and it’s not just because she’s pretty. It’s some kinda magic maybe. Who knows.
Another great video Brad! So cool to listen to your perspective
Thanks Jimmy.
This is one of the many reasons the music business is dead. The insatiable greed and scum baggery is just too
much for the paying fans to stomach any longer. Hollywood and the music business are pure sleaze.
It would be simple to turn things around…but they won’t do it.
I loved that it used to be a grass roots type of way to market one’s band. One-on-one. You had to really convince people why they should come see your band over another popular band that may have been playing up the street. We always prided ourselves on our live show and we always built ramps, skrims, blinders (towers of bright white lights) and rented double the production other bands used. Yes, there were better bands technically than we but we always left the crowd talking for days afterwards. We even had an old Greyhound bus that our manager converted into a tour bus that we’d park outside the front of the venue. It was all about presentation.
Yeah that stuff really added alot.
@@ronwilliams1094 Coo, l great comment, I was thinking similar things, these guys were definitely building life skills, maybe unknowingly but just the same how to sell and present themselves still paying dividends to this very day.
So glad to see you talking about this... When I was playing in Hollywood and LA, (80's) all the musicians I knew back in Dallas and elsewhere around the country, couldn't believe it when I told them about playing at these legendary clubs, AND having to pre-purchase a hundred or so tickets to do so.... The venues made sure they at least broke even... Crazy stuff...
It is indeed.
In Jersey we had a similar situation we would have to sell 20 tickets at 10 dollars then we would get a dollar a ticket for the next twenty after that we would get two dollars a ticket what we would do, we would stand outside the show and sell the tickets for eight bucks so people would buy them from us and then if we got any money, we would just buy as many tickets as we could with the money that we made because they determined the headliner by how many tickets you sold and that is how you got better gigs. I despised doing that when I was growing up I knew guys that were older than me 510 years older than me and then we go out to a place employee and then we get paid for it. Originals never paid as much as covers they would tell us that’s why you blend your originals in with your cover. She just play cover gags eventually they would start liking your song too about the 80s Times. It changed wasn’t the 60s and 70s anymore the scammers had learned how to scam the rock sene.
Ha, I remember those days trying to sell my friends tickets to studio one, obsessions, cricket club, that place in Jersey city where you could pay to get the video tape from Randy rocks, and many others. It was a great time at 16 years old.
Dear Brad: This is only the 2nd video I am watching and it caught my interest; I saw the "regrets" video before. I see the band *SHOCK* you mentioning and have video inserts, unfortunatley not so good quality, so I can't tell if its the Country Club in Reseda or The Whisky. I saw a band called *"SHOCK and The Night and Day Horns"* at the time in Hollywood. You guys put on a great show and were different to all the other bands I saw and I saw a LOT. I even had a shirt you guys throw in the audience, it was a white shirt with the SHOCK logo and Night and day horns below. I do remember people asking me who on earth that is, because nobody in Europe knew of you guys when I wore that shirt! :-) Talked to you guys at the club, you may remember this as I am from Germany. I believe you were one of the opening bands at a TUFF concert in the Country club, right? Or was it a show in the Gazzaris or the Roxy, sorry for not being sure, I knew I saw Belgium there, probably that. Could not find your name I try to research on the net or the band you had in display behind you when I tried to find your drummer, sorry? Need to look at my old BAMS or Screamer or L.A. Rock Reviews; have tons of demos from back in the day, I am pretty sure I do not have a SHOCK demo as you had not one as a member of your band, probably yourself, told me when I was at that gig in Hollywood fall 1988, either September or October 1988. You're right, a band like TUFF (long before they got signed!) or TAZ could sell out the country club on two nights at that time and the three opening bands needed to sell tickets (for the headliner). Remember Ana Black and Tryx too, of course. I really like your videos and I will watch more; I do very good remember these pay to play thing, remember I have lots of flyers with 2 tickets attached to the flyer already, which was weird for me to experience. Sorry for my long post - Kind regards from Germany.
Man very cool! I joined Shock around 89-90 so it’s likely you saw them with the bands original guitarist Robbie. By the time I joined we were headlining the Roxy. I remember those shirts. The Country club ended up being in trouble for underage drinking king so they closed that for a while. So many memories of those times. Eventually Shock had to change the name due to a cease and desist from another band. We changed the name and members to become Boy Elroy. The footage in the video was from The Roxy.
Pay to play was a practice in many of the NYC and Long Island clubs from back in the day that some of the venues still go on today. I refuse to ever do that.
You’re right, it’s a sham!
Sounds like you guys were total players to get these girls to your shows! Nice hustle! Unfortunate, but I imagine you had some "fun" on the side. 🤘😂 Love it!
The whole music business is pay to play. The Strip was just the farm league version but it's the same business model. It takes money to make money.
Perhaps so.
Philly didn’t really have a pay-to-play scheme back in the day. The few main clubs, The Empire, The Galaxy, etc., where bands like Cinderella, Britny Fox, Tangiers, and Heaven’s Edge came out of just wouldn’t book you again if you didn’t pack the room. Even then you would probably just get relegated to an opening slot, since there were always 2 or 3 bands each night. The best flyer scenario was if there was a national show at The Spectrum prior to your gig where you could walk the concourse and hand flyers directly to people and talk. Like you said, putting them on random car would’ve been a waste.
That’s really interesting to hear. Seems that genre of music had several thriving scenes.
You forgot the Cellblock, I guess that was one of the last Metal clubs.
Man, as soon as you heard 'tickets' I picture you and your friend Pete looking at each other and simultaneously mouthing 'F*** that S***' before you got up and walked out. Thanks for telling it like it is, your videos are like a glimpse of the school of hard knocks that some of us really need.
That’s exactly what happened…..
Back in the middle late 90s I played in Europe in a band called Killer Bee. We were a kick ass hard rock band. We did really well in Switzerland, Austria and Germany. in around 1996 Bon Jovi was coming to play Stockholm. We really wanted to get on the gig but if we wanted to even be the opening act, we'd have to pay Bon Jovi $10,000 U.S! Hell no!! We knew that we'd get shit sound, crap monitors and nobody cares or remembers the opening act. We once opened for Frampton and the monitor guy tried to screw us totally. He just kept messing with our on stage sound but we're mostly form Toronto Canada. We've had it tougher. Because we were known in Zurich, we had the crowd singing along with us by the second song! Piss on pay to play!
And to just think Brad, I used to look down at my home town boys for being locked into a day job and being in a weekend party and wedding band and sayin to my self- "what a bunch of loosers. They will never make it as a pro and dont have the balls like I have to move to LA and make it". Boy, was I ever wrong! lol. I made the move and got stuck in the 'pay to play' crapola... While I burnt out from all the BS and corruption and no longer play, 30 yrs later these hommies are still gigging and raking in big bucks on weekends etc.
I guess I was lucky to get out and get plugged into that scene in Nashville.
👍
I begged my band to go to LA in 84. I told them we should live in the van if we have to.we had some good originals too. Everyone had some excuse why we didnt need to go.I was the first to quit, got into real estate, im secure now, the other guys are mowing lawns and stuff. I sure dont have any regrets after watching these segments!
That Brad was another BRILLIANT vid my brother!! Oh my God ..I heard all the horror stories from our rival band here in Eugene, Oregon, who took the trip down to LA in 88’ to “Expand Their Horizons”..besides the seediness of the whole music business down there, they to found out about the pay to play BS!! They had high hopes of glandular success, but in the long run they ended up coming home as starving musicians, they had to pawn off some band equipment just for food and fuel to make it back to Oregon..we didn’t laugh or rip into them, we padded them on the back and welcomed them all home. We were still rivals trying to upstage them on our scene..but we never had the pay to play up here.. it was pretty much $400-600 dollar gigs..and we all had day jobs..in the mills around here!! Thanks again my friend I loved this one!! Shoot they are all pretty much top tier!! ♠️🎸♠️
Very much appreciated and interesting to hear this story.
Thanks for that story
A band i knew went to LA had to live off subway sandwiches. They would squirt shampoo on top of their head, jump the fence at a hotel and jump in the pool for a quick bath
this is no different from pay to model, trust me if you have IT they will pay you no matter what not the other way around !
my old thrash band used to play a lot around back then especially the Troubadour back in the late 80s 90s, we would book upstairs during the week, guy upstairs would book us with Gina, they would let you play a weekday at first, they asked and counted the people who went in and who they came to see, they also gave free tickets to hand out that said two drink minimum all ages but they didnt enforce it, once you brought in a good amount of people then you would qualify to book with proper bands on the weekends. The Troub was never a pay to play back then, i believe thats why it was easier for some bands to do pay to play at the clubs and think they were rock stars instantly. We did some pay to plays but only super reasonable ones where we would divide the amount and sell the tickets reasonably priced. Some "promoters" got super greedy with trying to charge a whole lot to do pay to play which was a NO NO! Best place to flyer were big concerts on all the cars it helped. Talking about sales pitch experience our singer was from out of town and did telemarketing we got some killer shows because of him and even booked through Goldenvoice because of him and others.
Great story. It helps to be good at sales!
SHOCK was the best band in Hollywood! Used to go to their shows and after parties at their warehouse. Ton's of girls. Great times!
Thanks bro
A guitarist I played with back then in Philly had been out there and saw how hopeless that scene was in L.A. He told me that an A&R rep he met at one of the clubs told him you might as well go home and play in your local market, and if you're the hottest thing in your metro area, they would fly out to check you out and sign you if you were good enough.
Some truth there.
Comedy clubs want you to bring a certain amount of people to a show for you to get stage time as a new person. Record companies would hire record promoters to plug records. The bottom line is that these are businesses and they expect you to sell seats and records. This is the business of show and it is not a religious retreat.
@badbrad
I played the strip right around that same time and a few years earlier. I was the guitarist in a band called Redline. I was friends with the guys from Racer X. We usually opened for them. We also headlined and played with Warrant, Lita Ford and a ton of other great bands. Home base was in Lancaster, CA, which was quite a drive. We had a lot of local support. We'd rent 2 greyhounds and turn them into party busses. Each bus was stocked with a keg or 2. people could ride safely to the gig, drink, see all the bands, and safely get home. Our busses were always sold out and we'd usually end up asking for more tickets to sell on nights we didnt headline.
Usually, the headlinee didnt have to sell tickets, but all the opening acts had to. It was that way at the Reseda Country Club and Troubadour. I dont recall my band ever needing to sell tickets at the Roxy or Whiskey, but we usually headlined those 2 places.
Incredible story!!!
@@badbrad
Along with handing out flyers, do you remember Warrant's sex hotline? LOL
Man, those guys really knew how to take marketing up a notch! They created a phone number where people/girls could call to talk with them. The caller paid by the minute and Warrant raked in some extra money.
We didn't get paid by the minute.....but we had a band hotline and it could be alot of fun answering that thing.
I came up through the punk and hardcore scene. Bands all worked together and networked and helped each other. I loved those days. No pay to play, and it was all about the music.
I hear you. Still nobody made any $. It's expensive to play music even in a punk band.
LOL, did the same thing in 1988. Got there in April of that year. A little late in the game when LA metal was dying. Never got into a band but worked for an "office supply" phone sales gig that turned out to be be a total scam. It was on Beverly Blvd. While the rock star dream didn't work out I cherish the fact I got to experience LA in the 80s.
Oh wow. Wow yes the phone sales thing, seems alot of us experienced that line of work
Gazzari's on sunset was always doing this you would lose money selling tickets to your own show Scandalous
It was tough.
Gazzari was a crook.....
Gazzarri’s was a pay to play club back then. The Waters Club in San Pedro was a good club to play back in 1989. Your videos bring back lots of memories.
I enjoyed playing the waters club super cool venue. Use to have a vhs video from our gig there can’t find it now .
The Waters Club was a great club. I feel it never got the respect it deserved because it was out in San Pedro. Great memories.
great stuff Bad Brad, growing up and playing gigs all through the late 70s and 80s all these things you discussed applied in NYC as well. I remember a lot of us, including myself, would wear a black army surplus field jacket, you and your friends could buy a case of PBR long necks and each duuude could carry 6 bottles in the pockets. We would yell the secret code word when we saw the cops were around, Then I became one 🤣. Good times
Good times indeed!
I could listen to your stories especially about the sunset strip all day !
Thank you!!!
My buddy had a band SMC Cartage on the strip back in day. They had like 5 tickets left to sell otherwise they wouldn’t have gotten the gig. The guy’s mom bought the last 5 tickets and sent some family members to the show.
That’s the way it was!
When the Pay to Play hits a market it pretty much kills the local live music scene. You ended up with kid bands doing covers with the only audience being the bands parents and the singers girlfriend. All of the music fans stop going to the venue and the venue dies. I saw this in West Chester PA, Columbia MD and Jacksonville FL. Back in the 70's and 80's we always got the door and had our own PA and made decent money playing stuff kinda like The Cramps. Selling out 200-400 capacity bars and small venues. Never did pay to play when it started hitting the NJ metal venues.
I hear ya! Promoters loved it because it put fast cash in their pocket.
We would also send out 1,200 postcards a month with our show schedule. Early direct mail marketing with a 9 pin dot matrix printer printing labels
We paid The Roxy $1,000 to play. They gave us 100 tickets, had to sell them for $10 apiece to make our money back. We gave them all away for nothing, lost our ass, but played the Roxy opening for Jailhouse/Rough Cutt to a packed house.
Many paid the same price for similar results.
Well at least you can say you played on the same night with Jake E. Lee 🤷♂️ I guess?
Enjoying your content waiting at Heart Doctor office.
@@bradhardisty1652 Godspeed to you, sir.
Brad....hoping you are ok. Best to you!
After a year on the strip we got paid to play ( very little) but better than paying. Tools plus in chatsworth, appropriate name!
Lol Yes!
Very interesting to hear how the scene in Nashville compared to LA. Unfortunately pay to play is still alive and well I believe. I formed my first band in California around 2010 and that was how it was for the majority of shows. 15 year old me didn’t know any better
sometimes we gotta learn the hard way bro 😬 i will check out your tunes 👍
I hate the whole pay-to-play scam... Many times, random "business" men would rent a large venue and lure new bands to play to get exposure, fans, etc and would say you need to sell X number of tickets to play a short set.... You would sell quite a few tickets (and hand over the ticket money to the promoter) and after the set, the guy would give your band a small fraction of what you earned them and then you felt cheated. Many bands that we knew (after getting cheated the first time) just kept most of the money or would sell only one ticket (and yes, we still got to play our set to a large crowd).
Wow so interesting to hear.
Great video bro 👍
I appreciate it!
Everthing in life is pay to play. Bills, mortgage, car payments, food, medical, etc.
Very true!
Tell me about it😂 I own my house but every 10 yrs I find I've paid 50k just to live here
What you do is have about a dozen friends, all wearing trench coats with deep inside pockets , come in and sit at the bar and every time the bar tender was at the other end of the bar and not looking, the friends grab bottles from behind the bar and stick them in the pockets. Each friend can keep one bottle as a commission for their work and the rest goes to the band.
We would try to build a pyramid as a band but the top would always get knocked off
That’s why we had wet t-shirt contests !
😂
Happened to me in Austin during SXSW about 5 years ago, at a venue we'd played at multiple times before. Never bothered trying to play it again.
Wow
I use to take the flyers down from other bands and put ours up !!!
We all did that.
That’s funny you mention that social security statement. It showed the years when partying changed to full time jobs .its amazing how cheap you could live on and still be happy jamming and partying ,and working , I’m lying about the working part..
I hear ya.
I "paid to play" the Whisky A Go Go last year. Didn't regret it at all. I wanted to be on that stage ever since I bought my 1st Johnny Rivers Whisky album.
Cool.
What's the going rate in 2024?
I am doing a 30 min set on January 11 2025 as Katdaddy55. The current "ticket buy" rate is 30 tickets @ $25 ($750) @todd-1
@@todd-1 30 tickets @ $25 ($750) for a 30 minute set
LISTEN Bad Brad - FOR REAL: My cousin's best friend worked for the Maglieri family for years and gave me the scoop about Pay to Play....Basically, Mario Maglieri who was an owner of the Whisky a gogo (the partner of Elmer Valentine & Lou Adler) helped hatch up the idea with a promoter named Mike Giangreco (along with Bill Gazarri) and Mario did not care ONE BIT about music or the scene - he was a former cop from chicago (corrupt to boot) that was brought in by lou adler to clean up the stealing that was going on at the whisky back in the 60's (by the staff) and he eventually became partners and then sole owner of the whisky... He only cared about money (he actually had camera's installed in the Rainbow Bar & Grill and directly to his room in his house- where he was in his last year of life, trying to have a miracle recovery from being bedridden with cancer, so he could make sure his staff wasn't stealing from him while he wasn't there - he just couldn't let go, even at the end) and knew that bands would be so desperate to play a shitty run venue like the whisky (whisky stayed legendary because of the Doors residency, but it actually was run by a nasty woman named Tisa) that they would "pay to play" and this ended up being capitalism at it's worse...It was continued by his grandson Mikey who used the pay to play model on all the hardcore and metal bands that came thru the whisky later...Unfortunately, now, Mario Maglieri is gone, and so is his son Mikael, but pay to pay lives on with his grandson Mikey.
Oh man
Here in the midwest your two choices as an original band are Pay to Play, or play the dive corner bar in front of 11 people. Take your choice.
Man that’s tough.
Pay to play was big in the Bay Area, 80's, 90's. Don't know about now.
Seems it was in a lot of major cities
Down here at weekend warrior level, I have this friend who isn't that good but is highly motivated. He has done the "pay to play" several times, and used it to get into clubs. His thing is unabashed self promotion. The result is claims and pictures of himself playing many of the major clubs in Toronto. Three of us backed him up once in 2011, when his band quit a week before the show. It was different in that we all got paid for playing originals on a Monday night opener at the legendary Horseshoe Tavern. So now I have video of me on the same stage as many, many top artists through the decades. I looked at it like, I got paid $100/hr incl. 2 beers from the bar for 40 minutes = $60 + 2 beer and bonus of playing originals live. It's enough for me. Cheers!
Cheers!
A major cancer that helped kill the scene
indeed.
Thanks for explaining how this works. Great video.
Thank you for tuning in.
I'm much younger and from a completely different part of the world but still everything you say seems very familiar. Guess that stuff is omnipresent.
Save your good stuff for an awesome book Brad. Color photos, names, places, etc. Original song lyric sheets, pictures of the down and dirty back parking lots of the scene. You aren't a hater so it would be awesome. Maybe like a memoir vignette centered on each photo of each dive bar club. Just thinking out loud. You probably have considered this. Do it before Otis does.
That is a great idea!
Norfolk and Va Beach are pay to play, sort of. You buy all of the tickets from the venue, and sell them for whatever you want, or can.
Edit: I experienced this in 2005-2010
Wow
For very brief periods of time, musicians are treated ok. Mostly treated like crap by greedy people over time. I'm too old for this shit. I play once in a while for fun. One thing they never teach in guitar lessons is how to get booked. Teaching is pretty fun (last job before disability) and I may pick it up on a limited basis. What do you tell students when they get stars in their eyes? All I know is bass players can usually find work. There is always that one guy who can get gigs. These are very interesting stories.
Thank God back in those days there were very few places that did pay to play in NY and SF. At the very least if you didn’t get paid anything youd at least get a few drink tickets.
That’s def a better deal.
Interesting, I just recently discovered this channel and enjoy the content. I was never a professional musician but was just looking at my pension statement ( Canadian version) and noticed some lost years in the eighties as well. I guess wasted youth is a thing for a lot of people. Cone to the think of it not a bad band name, wasted youth.
Great name for a band or an album.
I don’t do the pay to play . Last show we opened for Leftover Crack . Touring punk rock band . The promoter gave us 20 tickets to sell . We got to keep the money . That’s how we was paid . I gave deals and gave a few away . We made 160 bucks , not a lot but got to play the bigger club in town . Plus open for a larger band . We played 2nd right before them . I’ll do that but never pay upfront for the tickets.
That’s solid.
As an Original band we made a vow to never do the pay to play and we never did we would say no thank you. we ended up tour for ten yrs with easy rider rodeo great times. we never went big but we warmed up 30/40 great groups that were or ended up famous wish it was us but we had a great time Drowning pool even wore one of our 4WARNED t shirts in an interview felt very cool
That is awesome!
I decided when I came to Nashville, no more bands. I had had it with the BS and besides I didn't have time for it. My fellow band mates who moved here with me were in a band call Seance and they were really good. They played at Cantrell's and the Exit Inn and I believe the Cannery. I would go see them but I never once wanted it back. Remember when Nashville banned putting up flyers on phone pole?
That was way before my time in Nashville....
Yeah, its Still going on out there. Seems there are different levels for bands and different levels for clubs. Seems bands start out with the lower level bars or clubs that have limited clientele they want you to sell tickets or you get the “how many people can you bring” when talking with the club owner or manager. I have realized that these places don’t have many regulars and they will let any shitty band in the place if you can bring some people with no worries of running off any regulars because they don’t have any. Next step up is the established bars,clubs or wing joints anyone you can bring is a plus but not a deal breaker however if you can pack the place its usually = more $ they have a established clientele and just want good music at a reasonable volume and not run those people off. 3rd stage is you are playing rock clubs or large bars by now hopefully you have developed a following and people will show up when you play, you get paid on how good the band is and your draw. THEN there is the Bad Brad Stage you get to go out and rock the 🌍 world
Still would like to play the whisky one more time....
@@badbrad
😎 A HS friend of mine played it earlier this year
Thanks Brad! 😊
Thank you bro!!!
I knew a phenomenal guitarist in Houston who went out to MIT (GIT). The guy could play Sagovia, Chet Atkins, Paul Gilbert and the Theory he knew 🤯. He came back after 7 months and said it was all BS. Talent was not enough. Got a good song? Better keep it to yourself because people were willing to get on their knees for just a taste so if you think they wouldn't Rob you of Money, song, food. Im sure there are correct steps to cutting in line but is it really worth it or is it better to work and record at home. Fun has many faces
Very true.
I got to play Warp Tour and it cost me nothing. Never pay to play. NEVER!!
NEVER NEVER NEVER!!
ok
It has existed in Massachusetts and Rhode Island since the 90s
wow
Even worse was when a band sucked so bad that they had to throw cash to the audience- play to pay.
Yeah that’s not good
LOL..One of the clubs gave us tix.
And they labeled your band on it.
And when those tix came through the door.
The band would get 1 buck a ticket.
So, I asked for hundreds of tix.
And we literally put them on car windows in the parking lot of this venue.
And the rest we threw in the streets.
Hell, WE SOLD OUT THAT NIGHT
.And made Hundreds of bucks.
i remember the club owner ,sending his workers to the streets to find out where these people are getting these tix.
LOL.
Good thing we sold out.
There wasn't any evidence left.
My opinion for clubs would be to book bands at least 3 weeks out. Give a pocket size flyer or pamphlet give to bands. To hand out. Band just plays for free to start. Reduce Flyers waste. And Bands go to tourist areas and hand out. Then have a battle of 3 to 4 bands every week. And a open jam every week. All wins! My opinion
Generally you would have a month to promote a show.
Knowing what I know now, if I were a club owner I’d have a perpetual ‘battle-of-the-bands’ every weekend. You don’t have to pay the bands… each band will bring as many people/customers with them as possible… you could charge a cover charge and take a percentage of that as a cash prize for the “winners”… rinse and repeat every month.
@ronwilliams1094 Nobody would play very quick lol battle of the band gigs are a scam everytime.
Putting it to the test.
Seattle had that years ago, not sure about nowdays
Wow
Pay to play was bullshit .
Happy that some of the greedy demons who did that to artists are now gone
Brad--so the music on Sunset Strip was original music? Thank you. Your vids are fascinating. I hope you are planning a book, for real!
This is the book! Thanks for tuning in.
@@badbrad Thank YOU!
Even payola had a bad named after it: The Payola$ were formed in Vancouver, Canada 🇨🇦. Paul Hyde and Bob Rock 🎸 were the constant members.
Payola and other events happen in just about every nation. In my travels throughout Asia 🌏, I come across singers and bands which ought to be on radio 📻 there and, for the great ones, ought to be playing in Western nations.
Example. The Philippines 🇵🇭 is a hotbed 🔥 for singers. David Foster is selective on who performs with him. Morissette Amon was the big pick last year, 2023. So many other singers are also great but do not get as much PR as her! Too many left 😪 out!
Yeah I am aware the Philippines has amazing singers.
So, What is "pay to play" exactly, then?
uh....I think I explained it.
I was there to much 🎉 fun....
It was hard for me
Never made it but did open for Queensryche with Exception it was a lot of fun i played guitar and bass...62 and still playing hard rock.we headlined at gazzari's for a while and then we had to start paying to play and that kind of messed everything up
It was good times indeed.
I heard he recorded this way so he wouldn’t wake up people sleeping in the next room.
You heard right.
Led Zeppelin kinda started this, didn't they? They took on the cost of renting the venue and buying the advertising, but also took 80% of the profit over the promoter. This had never been done before, but Zeppelin knew they could sell out and so didn't mind the cost of producing their own concert..
They had a position of power which a band starting out does not have.
We're you in Shock with Jamie as the singer?
Yes.
Brad, dude, get your makeup kit, wig, hot pink spandex, and foil wrapped cucumber and i'll meet you in LA. We can do this ... we'll be rock legends.
You got it!
For $10,000 to Kathode Ray Productions, your song will play on Lightning 100 radio all summer long. It does work, your video will go on tv and the song will be remembered, especially if it's a disgusting ear worm, whether if it's good or not.
Was the same shit here in Orlando
Oh man did not know that.
Peace be to you,
I renounced my desire for greatness.
Then I became great in Him.
Elijah with Metatron
Damnit man your so on point, so on point.....
Thank you
@@badbrad For a time, when big..er name bands came to NYC to play large venues, Term 5, Hammerstein whathaveyou, there would be a night before or after show at a more local venue in Brooklyn where thered be an after party usually a nearby rooftop loft or basement shared with the opening band. I was spoiled to hell and only realized it towards the end of my run there.
Hi guys!
BJ!
Hello!
Bernie Taupin, Robert Hunter, Jimmy Webb....It may not be as glamorous but sit at home and write great lyrics and songs. You'll make plenty of money if that is good enough for you. There are thousands of players but only a few great writers.
Man it’s even harder to make it as a writer. Nobody wants to let you in. You think that’s easy. Been there tried that.
Covid kinda ended it in the stl area. We started making money during and after the coof.
Yuck What a Bunch of Horrible Bands Came from that Scene ,No wonder Grunge Took Over
Yuck what a horrible comment. No wonder nobody likes trolls.
Oh my misspent youth !
Lol
lol. Nashville finally caught up right?
Good stories…
Thank you.
Very real
Thank you!
that same shit went on in San Francisco also...did it once...never again..pathetic
Thanks man i asked this question
Appreciate your input! 🙏
Books are making a come back! Internet sucks
Isn't pay-to-play schemes part of what defines machine politics on a local level.
Perhaps
☝️ great talk Brad 👍
Thank you!!!🙏