I enjoyed this little lengthened partial trial, and I think under some circumstances, they're a fine way to train for hypertrophy. They're viable, and occasionally fantastic. For other movements, I think they're mediocre and probably considerably worse than just using normal range of motion. As always, your results may vary. I'm not debunking the studies, and this wasn't really a case study as I didn't control variables all that closely. It's just my experience. I doubt the studies are using the exact same form, training plan or movements. Remember, the principles of proper hypertrophy training still apply. Without implementing those, lengthened partials aren't going to get you big. For more on THOSE, check out my books, they'll change the way you train for the better! Book 1: SWEAT (beginners/intermediates) www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat Book 2: Ring Training For Hypertrophy (ring enthusiasts) www.verityfit.com/product-page/ring-training-for-hypertrophy Book 3: Resurrecting Your Gains (intermediates/advanced lifters) www.verityfit.com/product-page/resurrecting-your-gains-finding-your-muscle-growth-formula Can check the site for full Tables Of Contents of each book. Appreciate the support!
Of course you wont feel anything in your squats. You're resting on your calves. Also, you're not supposed to go heavier. You're supposed to go lighter so you can hit the hypertrophy rep zone.
hey geoff great vid but you posting measurements at the end got me thinking, and trust me Im not hating or anything, but didnt you say in one of your arm videos it's basically impossible to get 19 inch arms naturally? You see to have an 18.5 inch arm (cold and flexed i assume) at a pretty lean bf% too so would you reconsider your opinion on that? or is it just that you have pretty goddamn good genetics (again, not dismissing the 8.5 years of HARD training done here but honestly just stating that even with max intensity training most average genetic dudes only get to 17-18 inch arms that too only if they train perfectly for a long time) would appreciate ur thoughts on this gang
@@kushagrarai3501 Not sure which video you're referring to but it must be an old one because currently I don't think it's impossible to get 19" arms naturally. I know people who have. Bodyfat percentage makes a big difference here. 19" shredded vs 19" bulked up are two very different things. I have above average arm genetics as I've stated, yep.
The caveat I would say would be don’t cheat your reps as you’re short changing the lengthened part to get more weight on the contracted part. Do controlled full rom and when you can’t pull the whole way anymore do partials until you can’t really pull much rom at all.
Hey Geoff, a little suggestion: next time start the video off briefly defining what these niche video concepts like lengthened partials mean and why people do them. This would only take a matter of seconds but would make the video more accessible to beginners therefore would grow the channel more.
@@ddg334 Agree, beginners should be doing full range of motion with good form from the off. They have plenty of time to be making gains using those core principles and can concern themselves with more advanced techniques once they have built a foundation.
In my experience lengthened partials are best done for isolation movements rather than compounds ofcourse with some exceptions being the T-bar row etc, doing lengthened partials for the dumbbell pullover has done absolute wonders for my lats
@@wotanjugend974 I'm not against doing full rom, it's just that keeping constant time under tension feels really good to me as there's almost no resistance at the top of the movement. But I do full rom for the last few reps to get as close to failure as possible
@@wotanjugend974 That's dumb. In fact, doing a pullover partial is basically doing a lat focused pullover. Doing full ROM is like doing a rest pause Superset between a lat exercise and a chest exercise. Stay within the range where the muscle has tension. You don't go past that point or it becomes a REST. Same goes for lock out on most exercises. You're taking off the tension and being a chump just cheating yourself, instead of keeping the tension throughout the exercise.
i think basement bodybuilding has a really good recommendation, to use lengthened partials as a way to add intensity to shortened-biased movements (leg extensions, leg curls, dumbbell lateral raises, most back exercises, some freeweight bicep stuff, calves) without worrying too much about tracking it. i do agree that using lengthened partials as a primary way of training feels weird and i don't like needing to stop midway through the range because i feel like im not pushing as hard that way. but i think it does open the door to some interesting conversations about resistance profiles that ive found valuable!
That can be a useful but I actually like it for the other way around partials on a lift that’s really lengthened biased like the preacher curl he loves so much. I think the lengthened position has become overrated however with people thinking it’s innately superior when in reality they’re just making gains because they’re under trained in it
@@KurokamiNajimi i see where you're coming from, but i personally disagree fervently. with a lengthened-biased move like a dumbbell pullover or preacher curl or dumbbell fly or RDL or cable lateral raise, it is impossible to cheat on them without wasting stimulus because the hardest/most stimulative part of the movement is the bottom. yeah you can cut out the top range that doesn't grow a ton of muscle anyway, but you're not exactly wasting a lot of energy by going through it since it's really easy! so for those, i prefer straight-ahead full ROM because the part i fail at is going to be the bottom anyway, and i think it's much easier to produce max force when you're not consciously thinking about where to stop like with a lengthened partial. also because lengthened-biased movements tend to be a lot more fatiguing/damaging, i find that once i go to failure i don't really need anything more. i also disagree with the lengthened position being seen as superior only because it's untrained. if that were true, then why do seated leg curls grow (slightly) more muscle on average than lying when we already train the hamstrings lengthened with RDLs? why is it that bottom-only quad/calf training grows more muscle than full ROM on average? why is it that a preacher curl tends to cause a bit more growth than an incline curl, even when both are trained with similar effort? im not trying to be combative, hell i love me a couple of short-biased movements like the ones i mentioned in my OP, im just curious where that idea comes from.
@@andrewbianchi1294 Because those cases are still ppl being introduced to higher lengthened stimulus than they’re use to (also hip hinges don’t train the short head of hams as good as leg curls/nordic). This video is arguably evidence of what I’m getting at. Tbh I thought he was gonna make gains from the experiment but since he didn’t it implies my philosophy of needing balanced stimulus is even more spot on than I thought Him being elite is a factor but hypothetically if you had someone who trained for 5+ good years doing 12 sets and suddenly you turn it to 15 I think they’d grow relatively fast despite being experienced bc overload seems to trigger it. There’s even a study supporting this (not that I care too much about exercise science). It’s the one house of hypertrophy talked about where the average experience level was 7 years including ppl who had been in shows and powerlifting. Study was about 2 RIR vs 0 they even recorded sets to ensure true failure. They increased their volume by 20% halfway through if I remember correctly and both groups made the same gains
Comment got deleted for some reason after editing so I removed your username I notice that fixes it sometimes Because those cases are still ppl being introduced to higher lengthened stimulus than they’re use to (also hip hinges don’t train the short head of hams as good as leg curls/nordic). This video is arguably evidence of what I’m getting at. Tbh I thought he was gonna make gains from the experiment but since he didn’t it implies my philosophy of needing balanced stimulus is even more spot on than I thought Him being elite is a factor but hypothetically if you had someone who trained for 5+ good years doing 12 sets and suddenly you turn it to 15 I think they’d grow relatively fast despite being experienced bc overload seems to trigger it. There’s even a study supporting this (not that I care too much about exercise science). It’s the one house of hypertrophy talked about where the average experience level was 7 years including ppl who had been in shows and powerlifting. Study was about 2 RIR vs 0 they even recorded sets to ensure true failure. They increased their volume by 20% halfway through if I remember correctly and both groups made the same gains
Reading the studies and doing partials myself its pretty evident it works only in muscles where best possible leverage for mechanical tension is during lengthened range, calves and biceps that work miracles with. But delts for example, people don't realise you can't even meaningfully stretch them for hypertrophy and won't even get the temporary adaptations that you can get from lengthening the sarcomere.
When experimenting with supramaximal eccentric, they work like stupidly good but this is the exact same conclusion ive arrived to. They are a good tool if the muscle and or movement allows you to naturally pull this off. If not, dont bother. Same for lenghtened partials
For pulling movements I feel lengthened partials are the most advantageous. Yesterday I performed 3 reps with 50kg full range of motion with weighted pull ups and for the past 1 month and a bit I’ve just been doing lengthened partials with a rep goal system. It is exercise depended on how advantages the partials will be though
I think basement bodybuilding mentioned that aswell. You really have to concentrate on the lengthen partial. Which could take away from your effort because instead of going up all the way you have to think about holding back or stopping at some point. I definitely get why legthen partial might be useful but it is probably hard to do them for every exercise but I definitely do them for back and maybe a few other exercises at the end of a set to go past failure.
I think they are just a good option for areas that you can't grow or plateau'd. My side delts ballooned up doing Behind the body cable laterals, but with the the pulley really high up. Everyone at the gym be mirin' and ask me about my shoulders and arms.
@@gasoline1707 Agreed. When I started doing lengthened partials for one-arm rows, I sometimes did the first few reps with full ROM without meaning to. It wasn't really a big deal and I've gotten used to it over time. Now, if I decide what ROM I'm going to be using, I can just do the work in that ROM without concentrating on it much.
I think lengthened partial hype is just more proof of concept that the long muscle length matters, whether you're doing all full ROM, lengthened partials, or forced reps past failure. It's the counterpoint to prior studies showing that short muscle length training is inferior to full ROM. It's the other piece of the puzzle showing that tension in the lengthened position matters (not exactly the same as stretched). What I find interesting is the newer study that compared preacher curls to incline curls and found preacher curls to be better. There seems to be something with the strength curve that matters and not just the lengthened position. Incline curls are hardest at mid range and preacher at long length. That's just one study, but I think it adds some more insight that choosing exercises with a lot of tension in the lengthened position is maybe the most important thing, and not just the lengthened position overall. Makes sense, because a lot of tried and true movements have that kind of strength curve: RDLs, DB pullovers, DB pec flyes, squats for the quads, bench press for the pecs, etc.
@@jiaan100but for example when you do row the hardest part is at the top but when you have a landmine attachment you haver circular resistance profile making it harder at bottom and easier at the top
I agree with your assessment that the best application of the concept is with back and shoulder training, mostly because we didn't fully understand the importance of loading in the stretched position. Having to spam high volumes for relatively slow growth was never ideal. Adding better exercises (not necessarily lengthened partials) is probably the most pertinent outcome with all of this data, which means recommending things like preacher curls vs. concentration curls (rather than saying all curls are equal). It also gives good insight as to why certain movements like squats, deadlifts and bench provided great results, where as OHP and bent over rows tend to be more mixed. As with most things lifting, its evolutionary and refining vs. truly revolutionary.
Even Jeff nipples says the evidence isn't nearly strong enough to eliminate the contraction completely. Only guy I've heard of that genuinely thinks all lengthend partials are better is Milo.
Milo left school but school hasnt left Milo... he cant let go of his academic tone, often a symptom in those with multiple degrees, they feel the need to talk in written style as if they're about to lend a paper in. Like relax bro you're not getting graded on YT
@@ScottJohnson-cf8fk Milo Wolf is a moron. He says you should rest 60-90 seconds inbetween compound exercises, because ITS WHAT THE STUDIES SHOW!!!!! How can you trust this guy? Has he never worked out ever in his life?
cheated reps + lengthened partials for me feel amazing. i feel like people shy away from "injurious" training, like lifting heavy for example. but i feel like with proper load management it makes you way more resilient--in fact i believe this is validated by research saying tendons are trained most effectively at 8rm or below
Would have been crazy TO see any results in either direction after just a month. Personally, I absolutely love them, but that entails keeping everything else the same (volume and intensity) and doing 2/3rds of full ROM...cutting out the easy top 1/3 rest part of the motion. Best examples being DB chest flys (something I never really loved before) and smith squats. They also point out exercises that are kind of trash anyways - like leg extensions. There are still a few exercises that they aren't great for, but, in aggregate, for me, they are the better way to go...especially at my age (20+ years of lifting) I will say, though, that I think they are for advanced/later intermediate lifters and that beginners/early intermediate lifters should be focused solely on full ROM and form perfection.
Wow! Geoffrey you look enhanced You’re the proof that the natural limit is likely a myth and if not,than extremely hard to Im inspired to train for years and years when i watch your videos
Holding back on giving more effort can still be better for hypertrophy. If you can get slightly less gains but way more recovery, you can train for longer without rest days or deloads. I've personally tried lengthened partial emphasis and weighted stretch emphasis. I like it. It didn't add any growth but it did lower recovery demands. I also use assisted reps and just don't even grind on concentrics but I go to failure multiple times on the eccentric. Way more acute pain going to failure like this and the pump is actually painful but DOMS is much less and you actually feel it being less fatiguing.
100%. This is probably the most overlooked aspect of training in my opinion. At this time, the most well-supported model of muscle growth is that more volume = more gains. Lot of people think about volume in a single set instead of their overall monthly volume. If you go to failure on 8 chest sets on Monday, you're not going to be ready for your next chest workout on Thursday. Maybe you want to hit 16 sets per week, but you start skipping days and/or taking deloads every fourth week. On average you end up with 46 sets in a month. But if you go to RIR 1-2 on every set, you'll be well recovered and go longer between deloads. And you'll average 52 sets per month. I've made the most gains I've ever seen since doing more volume at RIR 2 instead of low volume to failure. I may do one set to failure the whole week. Haven't missed a gym session in 7 weeks of this and still have plenty of motivation to keep going.
These partial squats are very similar to how I warm up for my squat sets :D I just bounce up-down ~20° above and under horizontal with the weight. It lights up knees and legs quite fast.
This is like all techniques that are worth it. You can do cluster sets, you can do bfr, you can do supramaximal eccentric. They all work, they all have use cases like improved recovery with no cost to hypertrohpy (bfr) improved power at no cost to hypertrohpy (cluster sets and or speed work) etc etc etc. They are that, just tools. Go and play with them, see how practical to your specific situation and access to equipment are and have fun. Training is very personal.
The first time I learned about lengthened partials was from John Meadows; you're talking about not knowing where to stop the weight and what it seems to me would be that you're just to be starting the motion, you're not trying to reach a certain point or complete the repetition, but this method, seemingly via John Meadows, is typically done After training the full range of motion, which you spevified only training partials, regardless, you're to just to keep pulling on the muscle giving your tendons a lot of overload. At also can be done by changing the leverages like how doing pullovers with heavy steel clubs gives you a really good stretch in the lats while also giving them a contraction at the bottom in regards to assisting the stability of the arm, although your grip will be the first thing to fail. I get a darn good pump doing different movements with clubbells yeat the pump is real with the pull overs. It's like the OG bodybuilders using bent-arm pull overs utilizing the abdominal vacuum to grow their ribs. It's cool upper body protocol being why it's a "Classic."
Milo Wolf's content reflect on the long-term effects of the lengthened partials, according to the studies performed on multiple objects. GVS here reflects only on HOW IT FEELS to train this way. Not what are the effects. If that was the case, such advanced lifter as GVS would have to do it for at least a year.
@@tomztomasz506 Not really, most of the studies I have seen Milo quote were 8 weeks long. Not only that, but I have taken the trouble to read some of the research papers he has quoted, and in a few instances his conclusions are actually different to the findings of the paper.
The results were, as to be expected. I doubt they would have been any different even if you did 3 months of it. Thanks for sharing your experience GVS. Confirmed I generally have no desire to do these unless it just makes a movement feel like it focuses on the target muscle better and NMM lines up with that feeling. Generally, no lockout on pressing lights my chest up.
Might need to try the squats with the opposite partial ROM. So partial ROM from the top instead of the bottom. Natural Gallant Bodybuilding has been using that technique for years. Always shows his squats in his videos and he has big legs. Tension on the legs is better from the top partial ROM.
You give such a fresh look on training to me! I think I made amazing gains thanks to a lot of things and one was learning from you! I think partials are more useful only once you go to failure on full ROM first
Great points. Milo coached me with a program that was close to 50% lengthened partials for close to 7 months and I saw fantastic results, especially in my back. I would say, jugging proximity to failure was more challenging the first 2-3 weeks, but then it became pretty easy to judge.
Are they probably effective? Yeah. Are they always practical? No. Are they as enjoyable? Often not. Do they carryover to strength? No. That’s my answer
I've found partials to be more beneficial for some muscle groups vs. others. The Delts, for sure they are good.. both laterals, and heavy rear delt partials. The Lats as well get such a deep loaded stretch in that lengthened position with certain movements.. I was using single arm pulldowns supported on an incline bench and absolutely Torched my Lats. Hamstrings, I like partials too but at the end of a normal set I think they really get it done.
There’s something about lengthened partials naturally and biologically you know is not acceptable, let me put it another way, it’s “half assing” the rep, and we intrinsically know we should be performing the full range, now partial for a compound movement like bench press, actually makes more sense, cuz the chest is most engaged in that lower partial zone, and then shoulders and tris assist the rest of the way, so it’s really not about it being partial but about it targeting the chest specifically in that range
I find doing lengthened movements with a deep stretch and pause are excellent warm-up tools. My muscles are pretty fired up and ready to go. However, the working sets remain full range movements with decent technique, and much heavier loads.
10:40 You are very secure with yourself! I’d never be caught dead looking like this in a gym even if the brains of bodybuilding lore said it was the most effective and would give me 1% more gains.
in my personal journey, lengthened partials have had a very specific application: injury rehab. lengthened partials with low weight completely saved my fucked up shoulders when nothing else could
The studies on lengthened partials show slight increases in muscle mass vs full ROM if both were taken to failure. The most important aspect is still taking the exercise to failure or just barely short of failure. In all my anecdotal experience the only place lengthened partials have ever resulted in gains are when they were used to push beyond a strict form failure.
I just started watching (not sure if you're going to mention it or not) but I saw Milo and Mike's video about replacing the bent over row with... Drum roll... A chest supported t bar row lol. And it only needed "replaced" because Mike was demonstrating it with a dead stop on the floor! Claiming tension is lost at the bottom of the movement but that only happens if you actually dead stop. I have no doubt they put that in there and in the thumbnail to create controversy. I honestly expected them to replace it with some cable variation. They really (Milo the Clickbait Merchant in particular) think there's no place for shortened focused movements.
Imo the optimal use case for these is on specific movements that already emphasise the stretch, and then autoregulating from there. So doing 2-3 normal sets letting fatigue build up, then continuing "past failure" just pushing as hard as you can. Takes the guesswork out of where to stop. You can pick a second reference to know when to terminate the set (not being able to retract your shoulders on rows for example)
My solution would be to combine lengthened and mid/shortened partials. Not within the session but going through phases of emphasizing each resistance profile, 45% lengthened 45% mid 10% shortened (because shortened being the top innately means it’s the least amount of muscle). I agree that for some movements it gets awkward
Definitely worth it. I training exclusively resistance bands for muscle building in one of the biggest notions that you hear is that bands don't work because you can't get as much tension at the bottom as you can at the top of the band workout. But when I do a Lengthened partials I'm able to put that extra amount of resistance that I needed first to smash up the bottom portion of the movement to failure, and then after that I can pull back the resistance slightly to work the muscle through its full range of motion. So yes Lengthened partials definitely work. Since I've been doing them I put another half inch on my arms. And have grown more muscle with my clients as well.
Basement bodybuilding has made that first point really well too but you put it in a really good way. That lengthened partials actually harm intensity because you can't focus on finishing the rep. But how you put it that you have to decelerate the weight was good. I think overall exercise selection of lengthened biased lifts is just a better choice than doing lengthened partials.
I've used them on overhead extensions bc I've found them easier on the elbows. doing them as post failure training on rows and doing super heavy lateral raises seems useful too. On most lifts for most people I don't think they are recomendable.
Studies showing more muscle gains are generally on shortened or mid biased lifts anyway, I don't think there's any evidence a lengthened biased lift benefits from cutting out the concentric especially in people who know how to strain.
I did a similar experiment where I did almost exclusively the lengthened partial thing for about a month. I ended up going back to a typical full ROM training for mostly all exercises except for my bench presses. I’ve been using a cambered bar and doing deep reps in the bottom and coming out about only half way to the top. That’s the only thing that I really stuck with based on exclusively on my perception of what feels right. I could say that a half rep preacher curl also feels pretty good, but nothing else in my opinion feels inherently better or more stimulative using an exclusively lengthened partial ROM.
Lengthened partials is literally what “bros” would call past failure training, but they made it worse and gave it a fancy name😂. Glad you and faz put highest priority on effort, the rest is so insignificant
I’ve tried lengthened partials and also constant tension but always got better results by doing full of range of motion with slightly pausing for half a second at the start of each rep. Worked better than not pausing at all.
From my viewpoint, long length partials show that it is worth to focus on stretch more rather than contraction. Before very often at the end of a set I skipped the stretched part in pull-ups or rows just to pull the chest to the bar, and I see that many people have this tendency.
More recent Wolf discussion has spokene to using exercises that place the majority of the weight curve at the lengthened position, such as the rear delt fly, nordic curls over leg curls, Bayesian (?) And preacher curls, etc. Like everything though, people seem to take things to an extreme of a spectrum before fully explaining (Wolf and RP) or fully understanding (Boogs). It is another tool, but like all tools, work best when used properly. Incorporate when they are the best answer, similar to dropsets, myoreps, etc.
For the last last year and a half, I implement the kind of extreme full ROM that RP/Mike Israetel advocate for. I started to implement larger ranges of motion and truly focusing on the deep stretch. I’ve seen the best gains since my newbie gains after 9 years lifting. l found that getting the deep stretch has been the most productive thing I’ve ever done with hypertrophy training. However, i’ve sprinkled in lengthened partials, and i’ve found that it’s really only an effective technique for specific exercises that have max tension in the deep stretch. for me that’s been curl variations, tri extensions, DB flies. Other than those, I definitely agree with you, many compound movements it just feels better to push 80% through the ROM and not lock out vs doing 30-50% in the bottom range. Overall the biggest takeaway for me, has been just really focus on getting strong with crazy ROM
Sometimes the lengthened partials just occur naturally from going hard for example on curls it's very typical to lose range of motion during a set of curls. Or if you were to go really heavy on calf raises so the highest you can go is not the highest you could go without weights it's a lengthened partial. And who knows maybe in a few years they'll say full range of motion is better overall.
I agree that some exercises target the muscle really well when doing llp and others don't seem to make a difference. I tried doing skull crushers with llps and even going to failure I felt nothing in my tricpes. I switched to push downs and felt it a lot more
something ive been playing with is 1.5 reps. i only do it with calisthenics tho. really excellent with dips. itll look like: sink into the bottom of the dip, come up half way, sink into the bottom again, and go all the way up. works great with pressing. pulling exercises are significantly more awkward but not bad. 5 reps of 1.5 reps is SLIGHTLY harder 10 regular reps (for pressing)
Geoffrey, i thing it's important not only to do lengthened partials, but also match resistance curve in a way that makes stretched part more lengthened! PS: didnt watched video yet fully, maybe you addressed it
I do my regular full ROM sets, going to failure on at least one of those sets. Only THEN do I do a last set of LPs. My only problem with LPs is that muscle burn builds up pretty quick so I can only do about 5.
@@nh1776dont worry bro just libtard brainrot. Pointing with the finger on others syndrome. Do gooder a stool pigeon. Got his lunch money taked and head dunked into the school toilet to often
I experienced a never discussed massive downside of lengthened partials. Greater likelihood of injury. After considering this I have concluded the focus on lengthened partials specifically negates the contraction. Contractions are very important for strengthening fascia & tendons joining them to muscle and then bones. Any injury I have had, the rehab has included powerful contractions for that very reason. This style of lifting totally negates this
In my opinion lengthened partials are a good intensity technique after you reach failure in a set in safe exercises, like a chest supported row, squeezing those mini reps at the bottom
I came to the same conclusion regarding the idea that lengthened partials are better for reps. I would routinely hit better and better numbers on about 12-20 or even 30 rep sets, but any sets of 10 or below were about the same as full ROM for most exercises except maybe some pressing exercises.
my experience so far in using lenghtened partials (tracking progress for around 9 months using them now, i'm intermediate) is that they work super well in isolation movements that allow for comfortable partials after you can't complete the full ROM anymore, they also feel amazing on certain movements such as rear delt cable flyes and hamstring curls. working well here means that i've had better size gains and strength gains prior to using partials. not saying this is 100% confirmed causation, but it does seem like it doing ONLY partials on EVERY lift would be an absolutely dogshit way to train in terms of enjoyment, practicality, and therefore probably results too however, i do think that this topic is once again lacking nuance in the online space as fitness discourse often tends to do. feels like people only want to be dogmatic on either side of the argument, i think this is best represented through Milo Wolf's content (especially him critiquing others' training, it's so jarring), and the people hating on him and critiquing the guy's very personality solely because he loves his lenghtened partials although i don't fully agree with your way of implementing the partials, this kind of video is a breath of fresh air to the argument, anecdotes from an experienced lifter who actually commits to testing things out is way better than having to read a bunch of scientific papers that 99% of us won't be able to comprehend fully anyway
I'd advise you to collaborate with Wolf or nippard. I saw you might need some technique tips on lengthened partials. The dumbbell press and squat need some adjustments, the most.
Agree it’s good in some isolation movements as a drop set of length partials, usually do them on cable exercises. The reason why I didn’t like Nippards Pure Body is because this was overdone and didn’t get anything from it, in fact it set be back in terms of strength and growth.
I think you kind of missed the point. Lengthened partials might me good if they make you keep constant tension on the muscle. I mean, I don't know exactly, but I had nearly no results for months and as soon as I tried keeping the tension on the muscle, which usually means less ROM I started getting great gains. It's the thing I learned from Jason Gallant (Natural Gallant Bodybuilding). I tried literally everything else and the other thing that worked was training hard 3-4 days a week with full range of motion, BUT my joints kept saying "nope" and I was always fatigued, so I had to try something else. I'm 22 years old and have a hard physical job, so I had to find something that gives me results and doesn't tax my joints as much. Obiously everyone is different, but it worked for me so I will keep training like that. Ps. I tried HIT, I tried very high volume, I tried lower volume, I tried RPE 10 I tried RPE 7, I tried bulking, cutting, mangaining, I tried cardio I tried supplements I tried more carbs, less carbs, more fat, less fat, more protein, even more protein, hot showers, cold showers, different rest times etc. I keep watching Your videos Geoffrey, I watch dr. Mike Israetel, I watch Natural Hypertrophy, I watch Alex Leonidas and I came to a conclussion that all of you are right, but what works for you is what works for you because you listen to your body and know exactly what to do. We can buy hundred of programs, hundred of supplements, but at the end we have to listen to our bodies.
I've been really loving lp on my last sets beyond failure, specially on chest supported rows, Ham curls, Legg ext and any sort of fly or machine press. I started doing the lp's only the last 1-2 weeks of the program because I'm way more fatiqued
I like warming up with the just above the floor to knee level partial RDLs. Feels like I can keep tension on the hamstrings well, which for me...need more time to warm up than my glutes.
Fully agree here, i havent bothered to dive deeply into the studies but i would be curious as to what excercises the not lengthened partial group even did to get to a point where someone would dare recommend solely lengthened partials over full range of motion. Would the full rom group not have also enter a strecthed state and then if just tge stretch is so much better than anyone should see immediate gains after implementing this for 30 days. I also can't imagine how un pratical your muscles would be having never gotten into a contraction position lol. I'm in no shape or form contesting they dont have value and merit but boy was i triggered when i started hearing recommendations to only consider partial length training
With the squats you want to cut off the rom just a bit above the bottom, unless you want to train that full squat resting position specifically. Did this in physical therapy recently.
feels like you're holding back throughout most of the set? maybe you could do full rom until you can't get past the sticking point, THEN do lengthened partials until failure or whatever RIR you want. astute observers will see that this is how bros have done them for, idk, forever? ;)
I always liked RPs take on it. Do full rom without cheating (because cheating short changes the lengthened rom in order to get more load on the contracted rom. And then emphasize the eccentric (control) and lengthened stretch part. A lot of people rush and cheat the lengthened part in an effort to use more weight. That’s the opposite of what you want to do. Focus on the lengthened part but still do full rom. And if you can’t do full rom do a few more partial reps at the end until the rom gets so bad you’re done.
The only exercises where I implement them consciously and throughout the full set are most presses and some knee flexions although those are more so just lockout skips rather than actual partials. I think mostly choosing movements with at least some tension at long muscle lengths and actually achieving a stretch for those movements is really important though.
I think it really depends on the movement and how much rom you want to develope on a certain movement. On pullovers and T-bar rows, they are fantastic; for anything else they are not my preference, since I prefer full rom.
My biggest muscles relative to my other muscles in the body are my triceps. I've never trained them directly, lol. Explain this with "lengthened portiols" hype in mind :) applies to my glutes, to my quads.. I'm ready to hear perspectives
I feel like lengthened partials are more suited for things like bicep curls or leg extensions, or machine movements. For compounds like squats they seem very impractical and weird to do. I'm sticking to full ROM
I enjoyed this little lengthened partial trial, and I think under some circumstances, they're a fine way to train for hypertrophy. They're viable, and occasionally fantastic. For other movements, I think they're mediocre and probably considerably worse than just using normal range of motion. As always, your results may vary. I'm not debunking the studies, and this wasn't really a case study as I didn't control variables all that closely. It's just my experience. I doubt the studies are using the exact same form, training plan or movements.
Remember, the principles of proper hypertrophy training still apply. Without implementing those, lengthened partials aren't going to get you big. For more on THOSE, check out my books, they'll change the way you train for the better!
Book 1: SWEAT (beginners/intermediates)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat
Book 2: Ring Training For Hypertrophy (ring enthusiasts)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/ring-training-for-hypertrophy
Book 3: Resurrecting Your Gains (intermediates/advanced lifters)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/resurrecting-your-gains-finding-your-muscle-growth-formula
Can check the site for full Tables Of Contents of each book. Appreciate the support!
Do you think it is better to include a lengthened partial on every second rep or once you get to failure?
@@murraymcgregor7829 probably beyond failure, I don't think alternating full and partial range of motion rep by rep has much value in most cases.
Of course you wont feel anything in your squats. You're resting on your calves.
Also, you're not supposed to go heavier. You're supposed to go lighter so you can hit the hypertrophy rep zone.
hey geoff great vid but you posting measurements at the end got me thinking, and trust me Im not hating or anything, but didnt you say in one of your arm videos it's basically impossible to get 19 inch arms naturally? You see to have an 18.5 inch arm (cold and flexed i assume) at a pretty lean bf% too so would you reconsider your opinion on that? or is it just that you have pretty goddamn good genetics (again, not dismissing the 8.5 years of HARD training done here but honestly just stating that even with max intensity training most average genetic dudes only get to 17-18 inch arms that too only if they train perfectly for a long time) would appreciate ur thoughts on this gang
@@kushagrarai3501 Not sure which video you're referring to but it must be an old one because currently I don't think it's impossible to get 19" arms naturally. I know people who have. Bodyfat percentage makes a big difference here. 19" shredded vs 19" bulked up are two very different things. I have above average arm genetics as I've stated, yep.
Partials after u cant pull full range anymore
was about to write exactly that
Milo calls these lengthened supersets I believe and I concur that they are a more practical application of the concept.
Pretty sure thats how gvs trains anyway
The caveat I would say would be don’t cheat your reps as you’re short changing the lengthened part to get more weight on the contracted part. Do controlled full rom and when you can’t pull the whole way anymore do partials until you can’t really pull much rom at all.
@@einispro3740 yep, for several years now
Now you gotta 🐴🐔 weights for 1 month and compare that experience to this pencil neck training
Gotta have a wash-out period in between :)
Horseco*k ???
@@GVS OOOHHH SHOTS FIRED
The next GVS arch is the Hoisting Month
Horse chicken weights? Wtf
Hey Geoff, a little suggestion: next time start the video off briefly defining what these niche video concepts like lengthened partials mean and why people do them. This would only take a matter of seconds but would make the video more accessible to beginners therefore would grow the channel more.
Alternatively they could just look it up
Ah fair, oversight there on my part.
I think it should be inaccessible to beginners lol. It would only add to the confusion
@@ddg334 Agree, beginners should be doing full range of motion with good form from the off. They have plenty of time to be making gains using those core principles and can concern themselves with more advanced techniques once they have built a foundation.
Yeah I have no idea what a lengthened partial is
Now that we know NH has been kidnapped by Blaho has he sent you over a list of demands? 😂
I don't...negotiate with terrorists.
@@GVShes actually a cia special operative🤓🤓
but fr, does anyone know why NH has been silent for so long :(
@@Wolfuskaktus I don't know, my guess is he just became a father
@@Wolfuskaktus playing elden ring dlc
In my experience lengthened partials are best done for isolation movements rather than compounds ofcourse with some exceptions being the T-bar row etc, doing lengthened partials for the dumbbell pullover has done absolute wonders for my lats
Why not just do full rom on pullovers so you get basically a rest pause effect and even more total time in lengthened tension
I like them for pulls and then at the end of sets for other movements.
@@wotanjugend974 I'm not against doing full rom, it's just that keeping constant time under tension feels really good to me as there's almost no resistance at the top of the movement. But I do full rom for the last few reps to get as close to failure as possible
@@wotanjugend974 That's dumb. In fact, doing a pullover partial is basically doing a lat focused pullover. Doing full ROM is like doing a rest pause Superset between a lat exercise and a chest exercise. Stay within the range where the muscle has tension. You don't go past that point or it becomes a REST. Same goes for lock out on most exercises. You're taking off the tension and being a chump just cheating yourself, instead of keeping the tension throughout the exercise.
i think basement bodybuilding has a really good recommendation, to use lengthened partials as a way to add intensity to shortened-biased movements (leg extensions, leg curls, dumbbell lateral raises, most back exercises, some freeweight bicep stuff, calves) without worrying too much about tracking it. i do agree that using lengthened partials as a primary way of training feels weird and i don't like needing to stop midway through the range because i feel like im not pushing as hard that way. but i think it does open the door to some interesting conversations about resistance profiles that ive found valuable!
That can be a useful but I actually like it for the other way around partials on a lift that’s really lengthened biased like the preacher curl he loves so much. I think the lengthened position has become overrated however with people thinking it’s innately superior when in reality they’re just making gains because they’re under trained in it
@@KurokamiNajimi i see where you're coming from, but i personally disagree fervently.
with a lengthened-biased move like a dumbbell pullover or preacher curl or dumbbell fly or RDL or cable lateral raise, it is impossible to cheat on them without wasting stimulus because the hardest/most stimulative part of the movement is the bottom. yeah you can cut out the top range that doesn't grow a ton of muscle anyway, but you're not exactly wasting a lot of energy by going through it since it's really easy! so for those, i prefer straight-ahead full ROM because the part i fail at is going to be the bottom anyway, and i think it's much easier to produce max force when you're not consciously thinking about where to stop like with a lengthened partial. also because lengthened-biased movements tend to be a lot more fatiguing/damaging, i find that once i go to failure i don't really need anything more.
i also disagree with the lengthened position being seen as superior only because it's untrained. if that were true, then why do seated leg curls grow (slightly) more muscle on average than lying when we already train the hamstrings lengthened with RDLs? why is it that bottom-only quad/calf training grows more muscle than full ROM on average? why is it that a preacher curl tends to cause a bit more growth than an incline curl, even when both are trained with similar effort?
im not trying to be combative, hell i love me a couple of short-biased movements like the ones i mentioned in my OP, im just curious where that idea comes from.
@@andrewbianchi1294 Because those cases are still ppl being introduced to higher lengthened stimulus than they’re use to (also hip hinges don’t train the short head of hams as good as leg curls/nordic). This video is arguably evidence of what I’m getting at. Tbh I thought he was gonna make gains from the experiment but since he didn’t it implies my philosophy of needing balanced stimulus is even more spot on than I thought
Him being elite is a factor but hypothetically if you had someone who trained for 5+ good years doing 12 sets and suddenly you turn it to 15 I think they’d grow relatively fast despite being experienced bc overload seems to trigger it. There’s even a study supporting this (not that I care too much about exercise science). It’s the one house of hypertrophy talked about where the average experience level was 7 years including ppl who had been in shows and powerlifting. Study was about 2 RIR vs 0 they even recorded sets to ensure true failure. They increased their volume by 20% halfway through if I remember correctly and both groups made the same gains
Comment got deleted for some reason after editing so I removed your username I notice that fixes it sometimes
Because those cases are still ppl being introduced to higher lengthened stimulus than they’re use to (also hip hinges don’t train the short head of hams as good as leg curls/nordic). This video is arguably evidence of what I’m getting at. Tbh I thought he was gonna make gains from the experiment but since he didn’t it implies my philosophy of needing balanced stimulus is even more spot on than I thought
Him being elite is a factor but hypothetically if you had someone who trained for 5+ good years doing 12 sets and suddenly you turn it to 15 I think they’d grow relatively fast despite being experienced bc overload seems to trigger it. There’s even a study supporting this (not that I care too much about exercise science). It’s the one house of hypertrophy talked about where the average experience level was 7 years including ppl who had been in shows and powerlifting. Study was about 2 RIR vs 0 they even recorded sets to ensure true failure. They increased their volume by 20% halfway through if I remember correctly and both groups made the same gains
Partials after muscle failure 💯
Better than Drop Sets?
Definitely @@Schicksalz
Right after or should I rest between?
@@spacepillow right after, its like you continue doing some reps with the rom you can
@@jsantos2460 Ok sweet. I think I've basically been doing them already then lol
10:40 straight out of the middle ages torture book
That's the fun stuff
that's the only way
Reading the studies and doing partials myself its pretty evident it works only in muscles where best possible leverage for mechanical tension is during lengthened range, calves and biceps that work miracles with. But delts for example, people don't realise you can't even meaningfully stretch them for hypertrophy and won't even get the temporary adaptations that you can get from lengthening the sarcomere.
When experimenting with supramaximal eccentric, they work like stupidly good but this is the exact same conclusion ive arrived to. They are a good tool if the muscle and or movement allows you to naturally pull this off. If not, dont bother. Same for lenghtened partials
For pulling movements I feel lengthened partials are the most advantageous. Yesterday I performed 3 reps with 50kg full range of motion with weighted pull ups and for the past 1 month and a bit I’ve just been doing lengthened partials with a rep goal system. It is exercise depended on how advantages the partials will be though
I think basement bodybuilding mentioned that aswell. You really have to concentrate on the lengthen partial. Which could take away from your effort because instead of going up all the way you have to think about holding back or stopping at some point. I definitely get why legthen partial might be useful but it is probably hard to do them for every exercise but I definitely do them for back and maybe a few other exercises at the end of a set to go past failure.
Yeah this is why I only see lengthened partials being useful at the end of a set to squeeze out a few more reps when you can't hit full ROM anymore.
I don't think that's a big deal. You're basically learning a new movement and will get used to it after a while.
I think they are just a good option for areas that you can't grow or plateau'd. My side delts ballooned up doing Behind the body cable laterals, but with the the pulley really high up. Everyone at the gym be mirin' and ask me about my shoulders and arms.
@@gasoline1707 Agreed. When I started doing lengthened partials for one-arm rows, I sometimes did the first few reps with full ROM without meaning to. It wasn't really a big deal and I've gotten used to it over time. Now, if I decide what ROM I'm going to be using, I can just do the work in that ROM without concentrating on it much.
Back with another banger from Mr.GVS
-IYKYK
I think lengthened partial hype is just more proof of concept that the long muscle length matters, whether you're doing all full ROM, lengthened partials, or forced reps past failure.
It's the counterpoint to prior studies showing that short muscle length training is inferior to full ROM. It's the other piece of the puzzle showing that tension in the lengthened position matters (not exactly the same as stretched).
What I find interesting is the newer study that compared preacher curls to incline curls and found preacher curls to be better. There seems to be something with the strength curve that matters and not just the lengthened position. Incline curls are hardest at mid range and preacher at long length.
That's just one study, but I think it adds some more insight that choosing exercises with a lot of tension in the lengthened position is maybe the most important thing, and not just the lengthened position overall. Makes sense, because a lot of tried and true movements have that kind of strength curve: RDLs, DB pullovers, DB pec flyes, squats for the quads, bench press for the pecs, etc.
What's the difference between lengthened position and stretched position?
Also I had always heard that loading the lengthened position was the important part, not just being in a lengthened position at some point
@@jiaan100look at the video of basement bodybuilding about resistance profiles and you will understand
@@jiaan100but for example when you do row the hardest part is at the top but when you have a landmine attachment you haver circular resistance profile making it harder at bottom and easier at the top
@@Eniovrolix ok?
I agree with your assessment that the best application of the concept is with back and shoulder training, mostly because we didn't fully understand the importance of loading in the stretched position. Having to spam high volumes for relatively slow growth was never ideal. Adding better exercises (not necessarily lengthened partials) is probably the most pertinent outcome with all of this data, which means recommending things like preacher curls vs. concentration curls (rather than saying all curls are equal). It also gives good insight as to why certain movements like squats, deadlifts and bench provided great results, where as OHP and bent over rows tend to be more mixed. As with most things lifting, its evolutionary and refining vs. truly revolutionary.
Even Jeff nipples says the evidence isn't nearly strong enough to eliminate the contraction completely. Only guy I've heard of that genuinely thinks all lengthend partials are better is Milo.
Wolf has tied his entire brand to lengthened partials and wearing a white doctor coat. It's kind of annoying actually
Jeff nipples gives out nice information, you can't deny that 😜
@@ScottJohnson-cf8fk a man's gotta have a brand, it's clearly working
Milo left school but school hasnt left Milo... he cant let go of his academic tone, often a symptom in those with multiple degrees, they feel the need to talk in written style as if they're about to lend a paper in. Like relax bro you're not getting graded on YT
@@ScottJohnson-cf8fk Milo Wolf is a moron. He says you should rest 60-90 seconds inbetween compound exercises, because ITS WHAT THE STUDIES SHOW!!!!! How can you trust this guy? Has he never worked out ever in his life?
The starsky and hutch "do it" was beautiful
cheated reps + lengthened partials for me feel amazing.
i feel like people shy away from "injurious" training, like lifting heavy for example. but i feel like with proper load management it makes you way more resilient--in fact i believe this is validated by research saying tendons are trained most effectively at 8rm or below
Would have been crazy TO see any results in either direction after just a month.
Personally, I absolutely love them, but that entails keeping everything else the same (volume and intensity) and doing 2/3rds of full ROM...cutting out the easy top 1/3 rest part of the motion. Best examples being DB chest flys (something I never really loved before) and smith squats.
They also point out exercises that are kind of trash anyways - like leg extensions.
There are still a few exercises that they aren't great for, but, in aggregate, for me, they are the better way to go...especially at my age (20+ years of lifting)
I will say, though, that I think they are for advanced/later intermediate lifters and that beginners/early intermediate lifters should be focused solely on full ROM and form perfection.
Wow! Geoffrey you look enhanced
You’re the proof that the natural limit is likely a myth and if not,than extremely hard to
Im inspired to train for years and years when i watch your videos
You're just used to seeing natties with dog shit genetics, like Eric Helms.
Holding back on giving more effort can still be better for hypertrophy. If you can get slightly less gains but way more recovery, you can train for longer without rest days or deloads.
I've personally tried lengthened partial emphasis and weighted stretch emphasis. I like it. It didn't add any growth but it did lower recovery demands.
I also use assisted reps and just don't even grind on concentrics but I go to failure multiple times on the eccentric. Way more acute pain going to failure like this and the pump is actually painful but DOMS is much less and you actually feel it being less fatiguing.
100%. This is probably the most overlooked aspect of training in my opinion. At this time, the most well-supported model of muscle growth is that more volume = more gains. Lot of people think about volume in a single set instead of their overall monthly volume. If you go to failure on 8 chest sets on Monday, you're not going to be ready for your next chest workout on Thursday. Maybe you want to hit 16 sets per week, but you start skipping days and/or taking deloads every fourth week. On average you end up with 46 sets in a month. But if you go to RIR 1-2 on every set, you'll be well recovered and go longer between deloads. And you'll average 52 sets per month.
I've made the most gains I've ever seen since doing more volume at RIR 2 instead of low volume to failure. I may do one set to failure the whole week. Haven't missed a gym session in 7 weeks of this and still have plenty of motivation to keep going.
These partial squats are very similar to how I warm up for my squat sets :D I just bounce up-down ~20° above and under horizontal with the weight. It lights up knees and legs quite fast.
It’s mostly engaging your ass, you’re half assing your squat
I like the Dr. Mike approach where he does a full rep followed by a partial for leg press and rdl it lets you reset but also lets you get the partials
That sounds pretty reasonable!
Thanks for that great experiment and your expertise!😊
This is like all techniques that are worth it. You can do cluster sets, you can do bfr, you can do supramaximal eccentric. They all work, they all have use cases like improved recovery with no cost to hypertrohpy (bfr) improved power at no cost to hypertrohpy (cluster sets and or speed work) etc etc etc. They are that, just tools. Go and play with them, see how practical to your specific situation and access to equipment are and have fun. Training is very personal.
The first time I learned about lengthened partials was from John Meadows; you're talking about not knowing where to stop the weight and what it seems to me would be that you're just to be starting the motion, you're not trying to reach a certain point or complete the repetition, but this method, seemingly via John Meadows, is typically done After training the full range of motion, which you spevified only training partials, regardless, you're to just to keep pulling on the muscle giving your tendons a lot of overload.
At also can be done by changing the leverages like how doing pullovers with heavy steel clubs gives you a really good stretch in the lats while also giving them a contraction at the bottom in regards to assisting the stability of the arm, although your grip will be the first thing to fail. I get a darn good pump doing different movements with clubbells yeat the pump is real with the pull overs. It's like the OG bodybuilders using bent-arm pull overs utilizing the abdominal vacuum to grow their ribs. It's cool upper body protocol being why it's a "Classic."
This single video is more helpful than every video on lengthened partials by Milo Wolf combined
Milo Wolf's content reflect on the long-term effects of the lengthened partials, according to the studies performed on multiple objects. GVS here reflects only on HOW IT FEELS to train this way. Not what are the effects. If that was the case, such advanced lifter as GVS would have to do it for at least a year.
@@tomztomasz506 Not really, most of the studies I have seen Milo quote were 8 weeks long. Not only that, but I have taken the trouble to read some of the research papers he has quoted, and in a few instances his conclusions are actually different to the findings of the paper.
The results were, as to be expected. I doubt they would have been any different even if you did 3 months of it.
Thanks for sharing your experience GVS. Confirmed I generally have no desire to do these unless it just makes a movement feel like it focuses on the target muscle better and NMM lines up with that feeling. Generally, no lockout on pressing lights my chest up.
Might need to try the squats with the opposite partial ROM. So partial ROM from the top instead of the bottom. Natural Gallant Bodybuilding has been using that technique for years. Always shows his squats in his videos and he has big legs. Tension on the legs is better from the top partial ROM.
You give such a fresh look on training to me! I think I made amazing gains thanks to a lot of things and one was learning from you!
I think partials are more useful only once you go to failure on full ROM first
The type of content we’ve been looking for!
Great points. Milo coached me with a program that was close to 50% lengthened partials for close to 7 months and I saw fantastic results, especially in my back. I would say, jugging proximity to failure was more challenging the first 2-3 weeks, but then it became pretty easy to judge.
Yes I'd say for back and delts they're probably the most viable.
Are they probably effective? Yeah.
Are they always practical? No.
Are they as enjoyable? Often not.
Do they carryover to strength? No.
That’s my answer
Yupp, I think they're best used when you can no longer do full ROM.
I've found partials to be more beneficial for some muscle groups vs. others. The Delts, for sure they are good.. both laterals, and heavy rear delt partials. The Lats as well get such a deep loaded stretch in that lengthened position with certain movements.. I was using single arm pulldowns supported on an incline bench and absolutely Torched my Lats. Hamstrings, I like partials too but at the end of a normal set I think they really get it done.
We really need a video on farmers walks.
There’s something about lengthened partials naturally and biologically you know is not acceptable, let me put it another way, it’s “half assing” the rep, and we intrinsically know we should be performing the full range, now partial for a compound movement like bench press, actually makes more sense, cuz the chest is most engaged in that lower partial zone, and then shoulders and tris assist the rest of the way, so it’s really not about it being partial but about it targeting the chest specifically in that range
Loved the results! Will switch to lenghten partials on everything right away!
Reverse Nordic curls are lenthened partials and you can maintain tension in the quads if you never bring your body up to vertical, until you're done
I find doing lengthened movements with a deep stretch and pause are excellent warm-up tools. My muscles are pretty fired up and ready to go. However, the working sets remain full range movements with decent technique, and much heavier loads.
10:40 You are very secure with yourself! I’d never be caught dead looking like this in a gym even if the brains of bodybuilding lore said it was the most effective and would give me 1% more gains.
Technically, I was working when filming that ahaha
Always great content. Thanks for sharing your journey 👍💪💯 No pressure, but the world is watching 😅
in my personal journey, lengthened partials have had a very specific application: injury rehab. lengthened partials with low weight completely saved my fucked up shoulders when nothing else could
Very useful video
Thanks for experimenting on yourself for the greater good.
The studies on lengthened partials show slight increases in muscle mass vs full ROM if both were taken to failure. The most important aspect is still taking the exercise to failure or just barely short of failure. In all my anecdotal experience the only place lengthened partials have ever resulted in gains are when they were used to push beyond a strict form failure.
I just started watching (not sure if you're going to mention it or not) but I saw Milo and Mike's video about replacing the bent over row with... Drum roll... A chest supported t bar row lol. And it only needed "replaced" because Mike was demonstrating it with a dead stop on the floor! Claiming tension is lost at the bottom of the movement but that only happens if you actually dead stop.
I have no doubt they put that in there and in the thumbnail to create controversy. I honestly expected them to replace it with some cable variation.
They really (Milo the Clickbait Merchant in particular) think there's no place for shortened focused movements.
Imo the optimal use case for these is on specific movements that already emphasise the stretch, and then autoregulating from there. So doing 2-3 normal sets letting fatigue build up, then continuing "past failure" just pushing as hard as you can. Takes the guesswork out of where to stop. You can pick a second reference to know when to terminate the set (not being able to retract your shoulders on rows for example)
Geoff's triceps @ 4:00!!!
I know you, Dr Milo Wolf, are watching this with a smile on your face.
This Study found that its optimal to put yourself in a medival contraption for hypertrophy
My solution would be to combine lengthened and mid/shortened partials. Not within the session but going through phases of emphasizing each resistance profile, 45% lengthened 45% mid 10% shortened (because shortened being the top innately means it’s the least amount of muscle). I agree that for some movements it gets awkward
Definitely worth it. I training exclusively resistance bands for muscle building in one of the biggest notions that you hear is that bands don't work because you can't get as much tension at the bottom as you can at the top of the band workout. But when I do a Lengthened partials I'm able to put that extra amount of resistance that I needed first to smash up the bottom portion of the movement to failure, and then after that I can pull back the resistance slightly to work the muscle through its full range of motion. So yes Lengthened partials definitely work. Since I've been doing them I put another half inch on my arms. And have grown more muscle with my clients as well.
you can also just reverse the band on whatever you're doing and its biased to the lengthened position.
@@bigbobabc123Reverse band still emphasizes the contracted position
Do those overhead tricep extension like gvs does with those bands it really unique feeling
Lift weights dude
Basement bodybuilding has made that first point really well too but you put it in a really good way. That lengthened partials actually harm intensity because you can't focus on finishing the rep. But how you put it that you have to decelerate the weight was good.
I think overall exercise selection of lengthened biased lifts is just a better choice than doing lengthened partials.
I've used them on overhead extensions bc I've found them easier on the elbows. doing them as post failure training on rows and doing super heavy lateral raises seems useful too. On most lifts for most people I don't think they are recomendable.
Studies showing more muscle gains are generally on shortened or mid biased lifts anyway, I don't think there's any evidence a lengthened biased lift benefits from cutting out the concentric especially in people who know how to strain.
I did a similar experiment where I did almost exclusively the lengthened partial thing for about a month. I ended up going back to a typical full ROM training for mostly all exercises except for my bench presses. I’ve been using a cambered bar and doing deep reps in the bottom and coming out about only half way to the top. That’s the only thing that I really stuck with based on exclusively on my perception of what feels right. I could say that a half rep preacher curl also feels pretty good, but nothing else in my opinion feels inherently better or more stimulative using an exclusively lengthened partial ROM.
Lengthened partials is literally what “bros” would call past failure training, but they made it worse and gave it a fancy name😂. Glad you and faz put highest priority on effort, the rest is so insignificant
So you're too strong for the machines while contracting and doing slow eccentrics with a pause. You're the strongest dude in the universe. Amazing 👍
17:06 sums it up. Everything else is an optional tool, basically.
A lengthened partial of bench press is essentially just focusing on the chest range of motion of the bench lol
I have done this for calves last month and my wife actually complemented them for the first time :D
I’ve tried lengthened partials and also constant tension but always got better results by doing full of range of motion with slightly pausing for half a second at the start of each rep. Worked better than not pausing at all.
Deadlift wrong, do partials in the strong range of the movement. (Upper range) I do them on smith machine 2nd or 3rd hook up. Try it!
This stuff is really interesting for exercises where it’s hardest at the contracted point!
From my viewpoint, long length partials show that it is worth to focus on stretch more rather than contraction. Before very often at the end of a set I skipped the stretched part in pull-ups or rows just to pull the chest to the bar, and I see that many people have this tendency.
More recent Wolf discussion has spokene to using exercises that place the majority of the weight curve at the lengthened position, such as the rear delt fly, nordic curls over leg curls, Bayesian (?) And preacher curls, etc. Like everything though, people seem to take things to an extreme of a spectrum before fully explaining (Wolf and RP) or fully understanding (Boogs).
It is another tool, but like all tools, work best when used properly. Incorporate when they are the best answer, similar to dropsets, myoreps, etc.
Lengthened partials are like trying to do assisted reps after failure without an assistant lol
For the last last year and a half, I implement the kind of extreme full ROM that RP/Mike Israetel advocate for. I started to implement larger ranges of motion and truly focusing on the deep stretch. I’ve seen the best gains since my newbie gains after 9 years lifting. l found that getting the deep stretch has been the most productive thing I’ve ever done with hypertrophy training. However, i’ve sprinkled in lengthened partials, and i’ve found that it’s really only an effective technique for specific exercises that have max tension in the deep stretch. for me that’s been curl variations, tri extensions, DB flies. Other than those, I definitely agree with you, many compound movements it just feels better to push 80% through the ROM and not lock out vs doing 30-50% in the bottom range. Overall the biggest takeaway for me, has been just really focus on getting strong with crazy ROM
Sometimes the lengthened partials just occur naturally from going hard for example on curls it's very typical to lose range of motion during a set of curls. Or if you were to go really heavy on calf raises so the highest you can go is not the highest you could go without weights it's a lengthened partial. And who knows maybe in a few years they'll say full range of motion is better overall.
I agree that some exercises target the muscle really well when doing llp and others don't seem to make a difference. I tried doing skull crushers with llps and even going to failure I felt nothing in my tricpes. I switched to push downs and felt it a lot more
Lengthened partials are superb if you are already good at the isometric hold at the top
Great video GVS💪🏽✌️
something ive been playing with is 1.5 reps. i only do it with calisthenics tho. really excellent with dips. itll look like: sink into the bottom of the dip, come up half way, sink into the bottom again, and go all the way up. works great with pressing. pulling exercises are significantly more awkward but not bad. 5 reps of 1.5 reps is SLIGHTLY harder 10 regular reps (for pressing)
Geoffrey, i thing it's important not only to do lengthened partials, but also match resistance curve in a way that makes stretched part more lengthened!
PS: didnt watched video yet fully, maybe you addressed it
I do my regular full ROM sets, going to failure on at least one of those sets. Only THEN do I do a last set of LPs. My only problem with LPs is that muscle burn builds up pretty quick so I can only do about 5.
GVS been on a good streak of videos
Always has been 🔫
not liking right wing jokes is good in my books can't say the same for the comment guy.
@@spiritual_fitnesswhat are you saying?
@@nh1776dont worry bro just libtard brainrot. Pointing with the finger on others syndrome. Do gooder a stool pigeon. Got his lunch money taked and head dunked into the school toilet to often
@@nh1776 if you're asking that, then you definitely don't know so it's better that way 😂
GVS sir, great video as always 👑👑👑
Cringe
I experienced a never discussed massive downside of lengthened partials. Greater likelihood of injury. After considering this I have concluded the focus on lengthened partials specifically negates the contraction. Contractions are very important for strengthening fascia & tendons joining them to muscle and then bones. Any injury I have had, the rehab has included powerful contractions for that very reason. This style of lifting totally negates this
In my opinion lengthened partials are a good intensity technique after you reach failure in a set in safe exercises, like a chest supported row, squeezing those mini reps at the bottom
19:25 kg to lbs
18 July 99,6 kg about 219,6 lbs
Yep been floating around 218-220lb for the past few months.
I came to the same conclusion regarding the idea that lengthened partials are better for reps. I would routinely hit better and better numbers on about 12-20 or even 30 rep sets, but any sets of 10 or below were about the same as full ROM for most exercises except maybe some pressing exercises.
my experience so far in using lenghtened partials (tracking progress for around 9 months using them now, i'm intermediate) is that they work super well in isolation movements that allow for comfortable partials after you can't complete the full ROM anymore, they also feel amazing on certain movements such as rear delt cable flyes and hamstring curls. working well here means that i've had better size gains and strength gains prior to using partials. not saying this is 100% confirmed causation, but it does seem like it
doing ONLY partials on EVERY lift would be an absolutely dogshit way to train in terms of enjoyment, practicality, and therefore probably results too
however, i do think that this topic is once again lacking nuance in the online space as fitness discourse often tends to do. feels like people only want to be dogmatic on either side of the argument, i think this is best represented through Milo Wolf's content (especially him critiquing others' training, it's so jarring), and the people hating on him and critiquing the guy's very personality solely because he loves his lenghtened partials
although i don't fully agree with your way of implementing the partials, this kind of video is a breath of fresh air to the argument, anecdotes from an experienced lifter who actually commits to testing things out is way better than having to read a bunch of scientific papers that 99% of us won't be able to comprehend fully anyway
I'd advise you to collaborate with Wolf or nippard. I saw you might need some technique tips on lengthened partials. The dumbbell press and squat need some adjustments, the most.
Agree it’s good in some isolation movements as a drop set of length partials, usually do them on cable exercises. The reason why I didn’t like Nippards Pure Body is because this was overdone and didn’t get anything from it, in fact it set be back in terms of strength and growth.
Hey GVS science'd, everyone point, and laugh!!! What a square.
“And the results were nothinggggg”
That ends the debate right there
Definitely not, just my experience.
@@GVS lol case studies are valid
Your arms are getting to the point where I consider them to be too big. Congrats.
I think you kind of missed the point. Lengthened partials might me good if they make you keep constant tension on the muscle. I mean, I don't know exactly, but I had nearly no results for months and as soon as I tried keeping the tension on the muscle, which usually means less ROM I started getting great gains. It's the thing I learned from Jason Gallant (Natural Gallant Bodybuilding). I tried literally everything else and the other thing that worked was training hard 3-4 days a week with full range of motion, BUT my joints kept saying "nope" and I was always fatigued, so I had to try something else. I'm 22 years old and have a hard physical job, so I had to find something that gives me results and doesn't tax my joints as much. Obiously everyone is different, but it worked for me so I will keep training like that.
Ps. I tried HIT, I tried very high volume, I tried lower volume, I tried RPE 10 I tried RPE 7, I tried bulking, cutting, mangaining, I tried cardio I tried supplements I tried more carbs, less carbs, more fat, less fat, more protein, even more protein, hot showers, cold showers, different rest times etc. I keep watching Your videos Geoffrey, I watch dr. Mike Israetel, I watch Natural Hypertrophy, I watch Alex Leonidas and I came to a conclussion that all of you are right, but what works for you is what works for you because you listen to your body and know exactly what to do. We can buy hundred of programs, hundred of supplements, but at the end we have to listen to our bodies.
10:28 Shots fired against Dr.Mike
I chuck a few on the end of the set after hitting full range failure. seems to be working really well. full rom always the focus.
Lengthened overloaded movements like the RDL are essentially already lengthened partials.
I've been really loving lp on my last sets beyond failure, specially on chest supported rows, Ham curls, Legg ext and any sort of fly or machine press. I started doing the lp's only the last 1-2 weeks of the program because I'm way more fatiqued
Legendary insight
I like warming up with the just above the floor to knee level partial RDLs. Feels like I can keep tension on the hamstrings well, which for me...need more time to warm up than my glutes.
Fully agree here, i havent bothered to dive deeply into the studies but i would be curious as to what excercises the not lengthened partial group even did to get to a point where someone would dare recommend solely lengthened partials over full range of motion. Would the full rom group not have also enter a strecthed state and then if just tge stretch is so much better than anyone should see immediate gains after implementing this for 30 days. I also can't imagine how un pratical your muscles would be having never gotten into a contraction position lol. I'm in no shape or form contesting they dont have value and merit but boy was i triggered when i started hearing recommendations to only consider partial length training
With the squats you want to cut off the rom just a bit above the bottom, unless you want to train that full squat resting position specifically. Did this in physical therapy recently.
feels like you're holding back throughout most of the set? maybe you could do full rom until you can't get past the sticking point, THEN do lengthened partials until failure or whatever RIR you want. astute observers will see that this is how bros have done them for, idk, forever? ;)
Next month it’ll be “resting in a headstand position puts more blood into your heart which speeds up recovery”
I always liked RPs take on it. Do full rom without cheating (because cheating short changes the lengthened rom in order to get more load on the contracted rom. And then emphasize the eccentric (control) and lengthened stretch part. A lot of people rush and cheat the lengthened part in an effort to use more weight. That’s the opposite of what you want to do. Focus on the lengthened part but still do full rom. And if you can’t do full rom do a few more partial reps at the end until the rom gets so bad you’re done.
The only exercises where I implement them consciously and throughout the full set are most presses and some knee flexions although those are more so just lockout skips rather than actual partials. I think mostly choosing movements with at least some tension at long muscle lengths and actually achieving a stretch for those movements is really important though.
I think it really depends on the movement and how much rom you want to develope on a certain movement. On pullovers and T-bar rows, they are fantastic; for anything else they are not my preference, since I prefer full rom.
My biggest muscles relative to my other muscles in the body are my triceps. I've never trained them directly, lol. Explain this with "lengthened portiols" hype in mind :) applies to my glutes, to my quads.. I'm ready to hear perspectives
I feel like lengthened partials are more suited for things like bicep curls or leg extensions, or machine movements. For compounds like squats they seem very impractical and weird to do. I'm sticking to full ROM