This whole thing is ridiculous. The estuary to the north has the Brownsville Shipping Canal cut through the middle of it! Is Citgo Petroleum also being held to this standard? How about the Ship Breaking Yard? What happens at these sites during a storm? I don’t see any giant retention ponds that catch the sludge and asbestos. What about the giant abandoned industrial site just a mile across South Bay to the west? I am sure that site is pristine with no run off, right? Right?? I am not arguing against all regulations, but they need to be applied fairly and right now only SpaceX is being threatened. Where are the lawsuits against the Brownsville Port Authority, Citgo, International Shipbreakers, Bluewing, Interlube, Trans Montaigne? Or what about in Florida? What about Blue Origin, Boeing and NASA itself? If they are really concerned about what the Space Industry is doing to the planet, where are the protests in front of the CHINESE embassies? Oh, and I guess we are also back to proving that when Starship does a splashdown in the middle of the Indian Ocean, it isn’t going to land on a whale or injure any sharks! EDIT: These groups also blocked SpaceX from giving 477 acres to expand the Laguna Atascosa National Wildlife Refuge just to the north of the shipping canal in exchange for some acres by their launch site. Laguna Atascosa is under extreme pressure because of nearby South Padre and needs added acreage to relieve that pressure. This just proves the activists really don’t care about expanding protected areas, just harassing SpaceX.
If an large asteroid was discovered to be on it's way to earth would we only start working to deflect it once all environmental studies and impact assessments had been completed and approved?
What about the environment on the asteroid ? Is there life , maybe not as we know it , but space life. Will we destroy that environment to save our own , who are we to make such a decision ?? I could go toe Texas and dig dirt for testing , can someone go to an asteroid to dig dirt ??
@@thesink5723 That sounds like extreme sarcasm or simply an overt absurdity. If an asteroid we're heading toward to collide with earth obviously any life on it would be destroyed by an impact on earth. And destroying an approaching asteroid is an a realistic option anyway. But deflection is as described below. Measures are already being taken to deflect an asteroid if it was perceived as threatening earth as with the DART probe the impacted on the asteroid Dimorphos in Sept. 2022. It was a successful test.
Human stupidity is in the human species itself, no matter what planet it's on and who is on that planet. One human is enough stupid to start the ticket.
Politics, bureaucracy, and government greed. The complaint isn't about releasing anything other than Brownsville municipal drinking water, only about releasing Brownsville municipal drinking water without applying for a permit (and paying the fees), obtaining a permit (and paying the fees), and renewing a permit (and paying the fees). Christmas is coming. Maybe the Governor can grant SpaceX the money to pay all the past and futures fees.
It seems to me that the complaint about four discharges is specifically about the four IFT launches burning methane during launch. The small percentage of partially combusted methane rains down on the surroundings, retained in the moistened exhaust. Characterizing rocket exhaust precipitation as an untreated water discharge. We are witnessing the weaponization of existing regulations.
At my company in Ok the water coming in was above the allowable TDS for our discharge (go figure) it cost 1 million dollars to get the "approved" system to clean it up. part of that million was because out EHS director was an idiot and didn't get a contract.
Environmentalists are extremely hypicrical when it comes to chemicals flushed down toilets everyday. Has anyone ever looked at hormone pills, the contraception pill in particular on how that affects wildlife?
the bi-product of combustion of the fuel used (methane) is water and CO2. There is no industrial waste. thus requiring a permit is a mis-application of regulation. The quenching system reduces noise and shock pressure pollution, and is used by all rocket launches of this scale. This sounds like disgruntled people who like paying more taxes and don't like local employment. (Compared to all other US space agencies or companies, spaceX is by far the cheapest per launch, so less taxes to pay for nasa bills.) Currently spaceX is the only one that doesn't use toxic materials for rocket fuel. If the local county hasn't given them a permit (which they shouldn't need), the activists should be harassing the permit people to process the application quicker. It's plain to us armchair youtube watchers that the objecters are not basing their objections on basic science. This is not a chemical factory. In fact if elon decides to manufacture methane from the CO2 in the air, they will be recycling the CO2 as well, which is more than can be said for the rest of the combustion happening in Texas. Comments about mercury are dubious, as mercury is not used in combustion or containers on site.🚀
It's a technicality based solely on a federal definition. If this was applied to all such violators, you would have to close all businesses & almost all homes.
I think it was Elon that said the mercury report was false, specifically, someone multiple a number twice. So the level of mercury is what is naturally found anywhere. But when multiplied twice it makes it 100 times over. Someone made a "mistake" when doing the math for that report.
There are 3,359 miles of shoreline miles and a coastline of 350 miles in gulf coast. This small part of the overall area in Texas and they should fight elsewhere . SpaceX is important to national security and space along with the survival of mankind.
@@johnd9031 When you comment with absolute statements like that you lose ALL credibility!! See I can do that too. Maybe you can see how silly such statements are?!
If Space X developed a method to control gravity therefore eliminating 95% of fuel usage it would still be shut down, it's all about how well the politicians get treated (on X) and how large the reward for cooperation.
All the competitors of SpaceX constantly whine about SpaceX and write complaints at the Kennedy Space Center and Cape Canaveral. They must delay Musk till they can catch up.
The issue stems simply from the nomenclature describing the water usage at Space X. The actual process is nearly identical to rainwater, which depending on atmospheric conditions could contain more harmful contaminants (effectively nil) with a far greater volume of water. By definition the water could be named wastewater because it was involved in a process for heat dispersion and sound dampening. So the reality is a rainstorm could be considered a process of cooling atmospheric temperatures and sound suppression. The rainwater has gone through a process of evaporation and then precipitation so the rainwater has gone through a similar process. This one of the areas environmental and code legislation can often subordinate something called common sense. I worked with a company in So. California that reclaimed and refined precious metals. A prime example of legislation vs. common sense would be the following. If I was in the assay lab and poured the most popular soft drink into a beaker and an EPA auditor was on the premises and saw me dumping or rinsing the beaker after drinking most of the soda. He would likely want a sample of it for testing. Particularly if the soda was from an aluminum can, the results would have been in violation of the EPA and wastewater guidelines and the company would have been fined. The PPM of carbonic acid, phosphoric acid and lead, and potentially another trace metal would have exceeded the amount considered safe for disposal into the sewer system. If the EPA auditor saw me dumping the soda from the retail labeled can, there would have been no violation because common sense would tell him it is no big deal. The nomenclature of the unknown substance in the beaker whereas the nomenclature of the labeled can of soda would be soda and thus okay to dump the remains of the contents of the can, but not okay to dump the remains of the same contents in the beaker. That may not be the best parallel for what is happening at Space X, but very, very close to the same type of thing. I have had to deal with CAL-OSHA, OSHA, AQMD, EPA, local and state building code inspectors, DOT and the list goes on. From my experience, the real issue is more to do with fear of the potential exposure to the public and how it would be perceived. So, if you make this appear to be a complex problem and invest a lot of time investigating the problem, the public is generally satisfied, if you don't the perception is the agency doesn't care is not doing it's due diligence. Of course I could be wrong, but the solution is cheap and simple. EPA needs to sample the water before, during and after the flooding, possibly even sampling the air in the immediate vicinity as well. It actually takes on water flush sampling with engine ignitions and that's it. In fact, installation of fairly inexpensive sampling devices could could monitor on a periodic basis to record any potential changes in the water, air and soil quality. I have done the tests over 45 years ago on a directly coupled plasma spectrometer and each test took about 3-4 hours maximum. I am sure the tech is much faster today than it was back then. Back then the spectrometer was connected to a brand new, very expensive 386 computer.
Awh, the 386... Those were the days... and days, and days... lol. I still have one and use it as a word processor on Windows 3.12. And yup, it's stable !!!! lol. (dos 6 I think!)
Pentagon won’t care. Most of their work is on Falcon 9 and Falcon heavy. As far as point to point cargo transport goes, the pentagon has wanted that forever and can wait a little longer for Blue Origin to do it.
@@max-q7129 He said cancel everything. Cancel all government contracts. Falcon 9 is profitable just flying Starlink. At least profitable enough, SpaceX could keep going while the government feels the pain.
Triple Like on this comment. Also, English ghouls in Parliament attacking Elon also constitute a national security threat to the USA for the same reason.
Elon is way more than "conservative", he's radical. But that's politics, it has nothing to do with space flight. If that's behind any of this, it needs to stop now.
YUP! It is political for sure! If they still thought Elon was liberal, he would have zero issues. But Elon is to intelligent to be liberal and they don't like it.
@@arrowman4 he's not a conservative, he's a classic liberal. Just the left has gone so far left, that even moderates are considered conservative by far leftist
These groups and tribes can "accuse" all they want. I really don't see them as a risk to SpaceX's operations in Boca Chica, but really, more of a nuisance. The fact is, nothing short of wiping the entire operation off the map is going to make them happy. Let's not forget about the powerful forces that want SpaceX to succeed. Heck, the vast majority of the people of Brownsville, and other nearby residents, desperately want SpaceX there. Of course, our state does as well.
Actually I believe they are just angeling for a big financial payoff. Just like the earlier one where Spacex provided a bunch of money for turtles and birds. Apparently not everyone got their share of the money so they are back for more.
Can you name a problem that doesn't currently exist ?? You can't build to protect something no one even sees !! If that were true , no gas cars would have been ever produced , no tampons that contain , I think mercury? , Chernobyl would never have happened , so many other things. How long did it take to find out about asbestos??
These environmental regulation extreamist need to be regulated. I have no problems with protecting environments but not in confused ways like whats happening now. If he pulls the plug on this place and quits i would not blame him. We can't compete with global adversaries like this. Mabe we should just take last place.
They should shut it all down in Texas, and move everything to Florida, then move all their corporate headquarters to Florida as well. We would love to have them here.
No we want him here in Texas! Far too much infrastructure already built here, to just abandon it. They will overcome this - and they deserve for it to be overcome. This whole thing is much ado about nothing.
@@PaulSter I have a better proposal. Let's move SpaceX to China, nobody will complain about environmental requirements. The real win-win situation. Americans don't need space industry. And anyway most of the US companies are doing it, starting from democratoc and environmental sensible Apple ending at Tesla. But seriously, if this is so important gov agencies should help to solve this problem. But I see more and more Americans became more and more stupid. I have the conspiracy theory that BR is keeping its hand on water treatment production which is served to biggest cities population. Probably mercury effect.
And how easy do you think it is to pick up a multi-billion dollar project and move it to another country without even considering the extenuating circumstances??
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 That's the point. The regulatory bodies need to keep it easier for him to stay, or he will leave. The difficulty of moving is objective and finite. The bureaucrats can make it arbitrarily difficult for him to stay. He's reminding them that there are limits.
@@digitalnomad9985 It might actually be a plus if Elon were to move Space X to place like Mexico. Maybe that would cut down on some of his more obnoxious behavior in this country though probably not cuz he still has Twitter and Tesla here. I don't see why Tesla puts up with him anyway given his power trips to leverage more of a financial return from the company. That has really exposed the hypocrisy of his statements when he says that it's not about the money for him. 🙄
If Texas environmental officials are really concerned about the environment, they should be outraged at all of the fracking facilities across the state! Perhaps they should test Austin drinking water for mercury & other “industrial waste” contaminates! I would guess the mercury levels in Austin drinking water are more than 11parts per million that their complaint against Starbase lists!
Permit! It’s all about MONEY. What the hell did they think was going to happen when you are launching rockets? Sound like a bunch of Karen’s complaining about SpaceX. What do they do in Cape Canaveral about discharge?
Space X using tap water basically, most gets turned into steam (gets distilled), rocket exhaust is mostly steam, and no processing of water anywhere - sounds like a regulation being wrongly applied - regulation might be applicable for mine tailing ponds - but not for boiling pue water.
I tried to find the actual source of the report you were using to build your podcast on. But I only found a single-sourced "CNBC" report referencing the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ). And they had nothing about any of this. I'm tired of politics...
If SpaceX built a launch site on the end of a pier over the Ocean, the environmentalists would claim the water deluge would harm the Ocean. Regardless, SpaceX moving towards a flame trench diverter on the 2nd tower greatly reduces the amount of water used
This is what happens when BIG BROTHER disagrees with who you support for President. Don't worry they are only looking out for our best interests, so vote RIGHT (For who we chose ) or else.
Hey Elon, how about agreeing to shut down if the state and feds agree to declare the 30 mile radius as toxic and allow no one to build, travel, swim, beech, vacation, camp, or otherwise enter the area for any reason. If you’re making it so bad, ensure no one ever goes into it again. They, they sure can’t tax you on it as developed can they?
They can't move out of the US. Way too many industrial secrets. This is why SpaceX can't hire just anyone off the street no matter what they know or how skilled they are. The government has rules SpaceX must follow.
Envirmental groups present no evidence of pollution. The descriptions say could have mercury? "Could", is not a fact, but an opinion? Other "opinions", are equally, an opinion. Where is the evidence?
SpaceX originally planned Boca Chica for the Falcon. It is a better location for equatorial launches. In 2018, SpaceX announced a change in plans to use it exclusively for Starship.
Give them what they want. Shut the place down. Give all workers the rest of the year off. In their spare time, the unemployed may deal intensively with the conservationists.
Let's get the truth out there, the complaint was made by CNBC, not any regulator , CNBC complained to a regulation TCEQ, and they found no violation on water quality, so just some more politicing bull
Protecting the environment is important and it’s easy to overlook stuff and become a super polluted area. However, it sounds like. People doing whatever they can to stop launches it’ll be ironic the same thing that did the California rail in stop our advancement and into space.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 The cost of moving is finite. The regulators can make the cost of staying arbitrarily high. It is healthy to remind everybody that there are limits. Water follows the path of least resistance. So does money.
What town are you talking about? Not Brownsville because that is a city of 200,000 and doing fine with or without Space X. And Boca Chica was also doing just dandy until Space X came in and bought up all of the property.
I think they should check the water in the general area then compare it with the water being discharged by delegue system. I sure they will find the water being discharged by the delegue system to be many times cleaner than the water in the local area. This information comes from a person that lived in Boca Chica. BTW The location of Starbase was Kopernik Shores. Boca Chica was about .6 tenths of a mile further down Hwy. 4.
Fine, make life difficult for SpaceX which is one of the most responsible companies in the world and you will see them move their company and employment to any other nations that will gladly welcome them. Why would we want the most important manufacturing company in the world here.
As a scientist/consultant ( Ph.D. and PE) who has worked in the water and water treatment area, I keep wondering how the water chemistry from that tap water in the deluge system would be changed by the exhaust of the rocket engines. Evaporation would increase the salinity a bit but we are starting with fresh water so this would be small. The CO2 from the exhaust would drop the pH by about 0.5 pH units, which is trivial. Any excess methane or CO would be insoluble and do nothing. Back half a century ago when they were testing the engines on the Saturn they used water spray in the flame pits with no issue with the water chemistry and that was when they used kerosene for fuel which can contaminate water, but now we have methane that can't contaminate water. I was dealing with water issues at the test site and the engines weren't a problem. I got around the regulators by going to zero discharge which would be trivial if they had a discharge pond. I would just take the water from the holding pond and clean it up enough for reuse back into the cooling system. No discharge no permission required. I would clean up all their wastewater if necessary. Cleaning up 1 million gallons per day of reasonably clean starting water is trivial using near-off-the-shelf components.
It is in the National Interest to have Starbase. and give it the permits, since we are in another Space Race with China, Russia, and several other countries,
Apparently, a report (TCEQ?) mentioned mercury levels as a typo - I believe it was .113 and not 113, or perhaps .113 when the actual value was .013 ( dont have details) , but just a typo and well within safe range. CNBC went with the incorrect number, and SpaceX has been trying to straighten it out ever since.
I frequently dealt with the EPA and environmental groups- and they are NOT your friends. They are risk adverse and anti-business. They have no interest in using judgement and are typical government workers... and could not get employment in real business. Environmental groups are even worse... frequently left-wing ideologues. Inclusivity, environmental and civil rights groups are unfortunately fronts for Marxist ideologues. Guaranteed that the Marxist will continue to pressure SpaceX to heel. People that support space exploration must push back.
You lose all credibility when you use terms like Marxist!! The US is a capitalist based society and raising the Marxist term suggests extreme conservative partisan sensibilities or simply being wholly misinformed!!
It's just silly, if I had Musks resources I would instantly start building a backup site somewhere more friendly. How's Mexico in these regards? I mean, there seems to be a lot of unused land just across the border from Starbase?
@@NeedsLessWedge Once they finally figured out that there is nothing they can do, now, put one or 100 in a basement parking garage at an apartment complex or condo.
@@NeedsLessWedge Watch what happens to your car insurance premiums, rather, watch what continues to happen. That Tesla semi that went up in flames did enough environmental damage to equal what may be done by 1,000,000 ICE vehicles over their entire lifetime. So there's that.
Use existing launch sites as a precedent then establish a team of stakeholders including from the other sites to determine what all of them can live with in improving their environmental footprint. This is a reasonable approach. Legal contests should only be considered if there is a serious departure from procedures at other sites or lab tests demonstrate a pollutant issue
@@adenwellsmith6908 I haven't studied the subject to answer the source of the mercury, but to accuse the environmentalists of planting it with zero evidence is irresponsible, conspiracy theory talk.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 The evidence is that neither the vehicle nor the support equipment use mercury. It is a likelihood that it is germaine to mention. Chemical reactions do not transmute elements. "Once the impossible has been eliminated, what remains, however unlikely, must be true." Since it is certain the mercury did not come from the process, part of any investigation would be asking who has a motive. "Shut up" is not a counterargument.
L A W F A R E ... ongoing "concerns"...any lab tests from actual discharges??? or vague "concerns" only?...is it time for crippling lawsuits against aggressors?
@Klausjp.ontheroadagain along the entire republican party in Texas. You know, in the 1870 to 1900 we'd have called cas lovers in the d.emocratic party and after saying that
Thank you for showing how to highlight a media report that dares to raise negative findings against SpaceX. CNBC is doing what any credible space reporter should be doing - reporting news not just advertorials.
Feds play by different rules...and to add to that, DoD plays by different as well. And completely different structure type with the flame trench and it's drainage and capture systems
Become a member and join the crew for exclusive offers and more! >>> ruclips.net/channel/UCX3HDBasMU2qS3svgtuzD2gjoin
This whole thing is ridiculous. The estuary to the north has the Brownsville Shipping Canal cut through the middle of it! Is Citgo Petroleum also being held to this standard? How about the Ship Breaking Yard? What happens at these sites during a storm? I don’t see any giant retention ponds that catch the sludge and asbestos. What about the giant abandoned industrial site just a mile across South Bay to the west? I am sure that site is pristine with no run off, right? Right?? I am not arguing against all regulations, but they need to be applied fairly and right now only SpaceX is being threatened. Where are the lawsuits against the Brownsville Port Authority, Citgo, International Shipbreakers, Bluewing, Interlube, Trans Montaigne? Or what about in Florida? What about Blue Origin, Boeing and NASA itself? If they are really concerned about what the Space Industry is doing to the planet, where are the protests in front of the CHINESE embassies?
Oh, and I guess we are also back to proving that when Starship does a splashdown in the middle of the Indian Ocean, it isn’t going to land on a whale or injure any sharks!
EDIT: These groups also blocked SpaceX from giving 477 acres to expand the Laguna Atascosa National Wildlife Refuge just to the north of the shipping canal in exchange for some acres by their launch site. Laguna Atascosa is under extreme pressure because of nearby South Padre and needs added acreage to relieve that pressure. This just proves the activists really don’t care about expanding protected areas, just harassing SpaceX.
If an large asteroid was discovered to be on it's way to earth would we only start working to deflect it once all environmental studies and impact assessments had been completed and approved?
@@stephenskinner3851 without government, who would water the grass in the rain
Even if space x launched from the middle of the ocean,they would still find something else to complain about.
Invest in umbrellas. 🤡
What about the environment on the asteroid ? Is there life , maybe not as we know it , but space life. Will we destroy that environment to save our own , who are we to make such a decision ?? I could go toe Texas and dig dirt for testing , can someone go to an asteroid to dig dirt ??
@@thesink5723 That sounds like extreme sarcasm or simply an overt absurdity. If an asteroid we're heading toward to collide with earth obviously any life on it would be destroyed by an impact on earth. And destroying an approaching asteroid is an a realistic option anyway. But deflection is as described below.
Measures are already being taken to deflect an asteroid if it was perceived as threatening earth as with the DART probe the impacted on the asteroid Dimorphos in Sept. 2022. It was a successful test.
It never fails. Everytime someone attempts something heroic and uplifting, some silly bureaucrat finds a way to disrupt it!
Who raised the environmental issues? Competitors to Space X?
Local groups who never complain a out trash on the beach.
i wonder the same. first to mind iz bow wing. dirty deeds done dirt cheap. they dont like the attention around their ⭐liner and the dragons. 🪄 🚀🐉
@@k-omega-beta9305 in theory. Never underestimate well meaning and biased fools.
Benzo!
Possibly the Chinese or even the Russians would be happy to sponsor any opposition to Musk and Spacex. Putin paid for Brexit. Best investment he made!
They are trying to go to Mars to escape human stupidity...
It’s not so much that people are stupid but that we are immature .
Regrettably the Earth bound stupidity would soon follow to Mars.
Human stupidity is in the human species itself, no matter what planet it's on and who is on that planet.
One human is enough stupid to start the ticket.
No! They're trying to bring human stupidity to Mars on a fool's errand.
Politics, bureaucracy, and government greed.
The complaint isn't about releasing anything other than Brownsville municipal drinking water, only about releasing Brownsville municipal drinking water without applying for a permit (and paying the fees), obtaining a permit (and paying the fees), and renewing a permit (and paying the fees).
Christmas is coming.
Maybe the Governor can grant SpaceX the money to pay all the past and futures fees.
And paying the fees, and paying the fees, and paying the fees, and paying the fee
It seems to me that the complaint about four discharges is specifically about the four IFT launches burning methane during launch.
The small percentage of partially combusted methane rains down on the surroundings, retained in the moistened exhaust.
Characterizing rocket exhaust precipitation as an untreated water discharge. We are witnessing the weaponization of existing regulations.
SpaceX uses Brownsville drinking water in their launch system. Is Brownsville TX drinking water that bad?
The water company after spilling hundreds of gallons of water while fixing a busted water line: do we need to cal someone about this toxic waste dump?
At my company in Ok the water coming in was above the allowable TDS for our discharge (go figure) it cost 1 million dollars to get the "approved" system to clean it up. part of that million was because out EHS director was an idiot and didn't get a contract.
Notice how these complaints just came up after the last NASA update on the failed Starliner?
Wow!! And so do you think that weak correlation is relevant?!?!
@@michaeldeierhoi4096- hmm,
ya know, timing is everything...
ask the wives! LOL.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 Politics and $$$
What evidence do they have that StarBase is doing any harm? It is political.
Ohh yes, the data shows! Which data? They don’t know
It is BS and we all know it!
I think it is time for Elon to find out, "who is John Galt"....
Environmentalists are extremely hypicrical when it comes to chemicals flushed down toilets everyday. Has anyone ever looked at hormone pills, the contraception pill in particular on how that affects wildlife?
did you loose some?
This looks to me as retaliation from the actual government for Elon's support to Trump's campaign
the bi-product of combustion of the fuel used (methane) is water and CO2. There is no industrial waste. thus requiring a permit is a mis-application of regulation.
The quenching system reduces noise and shock pressure pollution, and is used by all rocket launches of this scale.
This sounds like disgruntled people who like paying more taxes and don't like local employment.
(Compared to all other US space agencies or companies, spaceX is by far the cheapest per launch, so less taxes to pay for nasa bills.)
Currently spaceX is the only one that doesn't use toxic materials for rocket fuel. If the local county hasn't given them a permit (which they shouldn't need), the activists should be harassing the permit people to process the application quicker.
It's plain to us armchair youtube watchers that the objecters are not basing their objections on basic science. This is not a chemical factory. In fact if elon decides to manufacture methane from the CO2 in the air, they will be recycling the CO2 as well, which is more than can be said for the rest of the combustion happening in Texas. Comments about mercury are dubious, as mercury is not used in combustion or containers on site.🚀
Correct. Mercury they say? Where's that going to be used in a space launch? Tough to explain.
My bet is that its been planted.
Well said Sir/Madame.
It's a technicality based solely on a federal definition. If this was applied to all such violators, you would have to close all businesses & almost all homes.
@@ErikLongLeaf So where's the mercury going to have come from?
I think it was Elon that said the mercury report was false, specifically, someone multiple a number twice. So the level of mercury is what is naturally found anywhere. But when multiplied twice it makes it 100 times over. Someone made a "mistake" when doing the math for that report.
There are 3,359 miles of shoreline miles and a coastline of 350 miles in gulf coast. This small part of the overall area in Texas and they should fight elsewhere . SpaceX is important to national security and space along with the survival of mankind.
SpaceX should move 2 miles south into Mexico and do away with all this BS.
Oh sure as if that were an easy to accomplish option financially and otherwise!? 🙄
I was thinking the same but, I believe they would not be permitted to fly US gov Sats or people on it.
Over regulation is driving all business out of the country
@@johnd9031 When you comment with absolute statements like that you lose ALL credibility!! See I can do that too. Maybe you can see how silly such statements are?!
This is a stall tactic to slow down Space-X, so its competitors can catch up!
going like this, steam locomotives would never have operated in history.
If Space X developed a method to control gravity therefore eliminating 95% of fuel usage it would still be shut down, it's all about how well the politicians get treated (on X) and how large the reward for cooperation.
How much environmental destruction do Hurricanes cause when they come ashore? Do hurricanes obtain authorisation?
@@k-omega-beta9305
The last one destroyed ur mind.
All the competitors of SpaceX constantly whine about SpaceX and write complaints at the Kennedy Space Center and Cape Canaveral. They must delay Musk till they can catch up.
Sounds like a shake-down.
Mexico would love to have SpaceX. Just imagine the NASA pukes seeing that big rocket go up with the Mexican flag on the side.
The issue stems simply from the nomenclature describing the water usage at Space X. The actual process is nearly identical to rainwater, which depending on atmospheric conditions could contain more harmful contaminants (effectively nil) with a far greater volume of water. By definition the water could be named wastewater because it was involved in a process for heat dispersion and sound dampening. So the reality is a rainstorm could be considered a process of cooling atmospheric temperatures and sound suppression. The rainwater has gone through a process of evaporation and then precipitation so the rainwater has gone through a similar process.
This one of the areas environmental and code legislation can often subordinate something called common sense. I worked with a company in So. California that reclaimed and refined precious metals. A prime example of legislation vs. common sense would be the following. If I was in the assay lab and poured the most popular soft drink into a beaker and an EPA auditor was on the premises and saw me dumping or rinsing the beaker after drinking most of the soda. He would likely want a sample of it for testing. Particularly if the soda was from an aluminum can, the results would have been in violation of the EPA and wastewater guidelines and the company would have been fined. The PPM of carbonic acid, phosphoric acid and lead, and potentially another trace metal would have exceeded the amount considered safe for disposal into the sewer system. If the EPA auditor saw me dumping the soda from the retail labeled can, there would have been no violation because common sense would tell him it is no big deal. The nomenclature of the unknown substance in the beaker whereas the nomenclature of the labeled can of soda would be soda and thus okay to dump the remains of the contents of the can, but not okay to dump the remains of the same contents in the beaker.
That may not be the best parallel for what is happening at Space X, but very, very close to the same type of thing. I have had to deal with CAL-OSHA, OSHA, AQMD, EPA, local and state building code inspectors, DOT and the list goes on. From my experience, the real issue is more to do with fear of the potential exposure to the public and how it would be perceived. So, if you make this appear to be a complex problem and invest a lot of time investigating the problem, the public is generally satisfied, if you don't the perception is the agency doesn't care is not doing it's due diligence. Of course I could be wrong, but the solution is cheap and simple. EPA needs to sample the water before, during and after the flooding, possibly even sampling the air in the immediate vicinity as well. It actually takes on water flush sampling with engine ignitions and that's it. In fact, installation of fairly inexpensive sampling devices could could monitor on a periodic basis to record any potential changes in the water, air and soil quality. I have done the tests over 45 years ago on a directly coupled plasma spectrometer and each test took about 3-4 hours maximum. I am sure the tech is much faster today than it was back then. Back then the spectrometer was connected to a brand new, very expensive 386 computer.
Awh, the 386... Those were the days... and days, and days... lol. I still have one and use it as a word processor on Windows 3.12.
And yup, it's stable !!!! lol.
(dos 6 I think!)
DO IT!!! CANCEL EVERYTHING! See how the pentagon reacts.
Pentagon won’t care. Most of their work is on Falcon 9 and Falcon heavy. As far as point to point cargo transport goes, the pentagon has wanted that forever and can wait a little longer for Blue Origin to do it.
@@max-q7129 He said cancel everything. Cancel all government contracts. Falcon 9 is profitable just flying Starlink.
At least profitable enough, SpaceX could keep going while the government feels the pain.
@@max-q7129if he stops he will stop EVERYTHING! It wont take 2 weeks.
Triple Like on this comment. Also, English ghouls in Parliament attacking Elon also constitute a national security threat to the USA for the same reason.
@@max-q7129 Artemis
This all about Elon being a conservative. Far left and activists and media are all in on these complaints .
Elon is way more than "conservative", he's radical. But that's politics, it has nothing to do with space flight. If that's behind any of this, it needs to stop now.
100% correct and easy to predict
YUP! It is political for sure!
If they still thought Elon was liberal, he would have zero issues.
But Elon is to intelligent to be liberal and they don't like it.
@@arrowman4 he's not a conservative, he's a classic liberal. Just the left has gone so far left, that even moderates are considered conservative by far leftist
And their discharge water is cleaner than the rainfall!!
Thats false.
@@Patch1xohow do you figure?
@@Patch1xo It's completely true the water is drinking water.
@@Patch1xocite, with bibliography.
@@GrigoriZhukov "bibliography"? Lol - back to the dictionary for you.
These groups and tribes can "accuse" all they want. I really don't see them as a risk to SpaceX's operations in Boca Chica, but really, more of a nuisance. The fact is, nothing short of wiping the entire operation off the map is going to make them happy. Let's not forget about the powerful forces that want SpaceX to succeed. Heck, the vast majority of the people of Brownsville, and other nearby residents, desperately want SpaceX there. Of course, our state does as well.
Let's also not forget about the powerful forces that want SpaceX to FAIL.
Actually I believe they are just angeling for a big financial payoff. Just like the earlier one where Spacex provided a bunch of money for turtles and birds. Apparently not everyone got their share of the money so they are back for more.
Screw these environmentalists. SE HOW THE ECONOMY LIKES SPACEX SHUTTING DOWN!
Can you name a problem that doesn't currently exist ?? You can't build to protect something no one even sees !! If that were true , no gas cars would have been ever produced , no tampons that contain , I think mercury? , Chernobyl would never have happened , so many other things. How long did it take to find out about asbestos??
@@k-omega-beta9305 - yup !
LMAO.
These environmental regulation extreamist need to be regulated. I have no problems with protecting environments but not in confused ways like whats happening now. If he pulls the plug on this place and quits i would not blame him. We can't compete with global adversaries like this. Mabe we should just take last place.
They should shut it all down in Texas, and move everything to Florida, then move all their corporate headquarters to Florida as well. We would love to have them here.
No we want him here in Texas! Far too much infrastructure already built here, to just abandon it. They will overcome this - and they deserve for it to be overcome. This whole thing is much ado about nothing.
@@PaulSter I have a better proposal. Let's move SpaceX to China, nobody will complain about environmental requirements. The real win-win situation. Americans don't need space industry. And anyway most of the US companies are doing it, starting from democratoc and environmental sensible Apple ending at Tesla. But seriously, if this is so important gov agencies should help to solve this problem. But I see more and more Americans became more and more stupid. I have the conspiracy theory that BR is keeping its hand on water treatment production which is served to biggest cities population. Probably mercury effect.
@@PaulSterthe facilities would be great place for the cartels to use as a hub
SpaceX is already under a wide-spread attack at Canaveral. The attacks started up rather abruptly. Looks like a BO based problem.
@@NeedsLessWedge ha - no thank you very much!
I’m sure Mexico would love SpaceX if the US doesn’t.
And how easy do you think it is to pick up a multi-billion dollar project and move it to another country without even considering the extenuating circumstances??
@@michaeldeierhoi4096
Like Tesla you mean?
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 That's the point. The regulatory bodies need to keep it easier for him to stay, or he will leave. The difficulty of moving is objective and finite. The bureaucrats can make it arbitrarily difficult for him to stay. He's reminding them that there are limits.
@@digitalnomad9985 It might actually be a plus if Elon were to move Space X to place like Mexico. Maybe that would cut down on some of his more obnoxious behavior in this country though probably not cuz he still has Twitter and Tesla here.
I don't see why Tesla puts up with him anyway given his power trips to leverage more of a financial return from the company. That has really exposed the hypocrisy of his statements when he says that it's not about the money for him. 🙄
It's drinking water, tap water, watering their lawn water. It's not contaminated "waste-water". Don't be silly.
If Texas environmental officials are really concerned about the environment, they should be outraged at all of the fracking facilities across the state! Perhaps they should test Austin drinking water for mercury & other “industrial waste” contaminates! I would guess the mercury levels in Austin drinking water are more than 11parts per million that their complaint against Starbase lists!
Permit! It’s all about MONEY. What the hell did they think was going to happen when you are launching rockets? Sound like a bunch of Karen’s complaining about SpaceX. What do they do in Cape Canaveral about discharge?
Go spacex starship and booster go for flights 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Go SpaceX !!!!
👉🤣😂😭🤣🤣😁😁
What would happen to the economy of the area if SpaceX moved off shore into a private island or old oil platform in international waters
Space X using tap water basically, most gets turned into steam (gets distilled), rocket exhaust is mostly steam, and no processing of water anywhere - sounds like a regulation being wrongly applied - regulation might be applicable for mine tailing ponds - but not for boiling pue water.
I tried to find the actual source of the report you were using to build your podcast on. But I only found a single-sourced "CNBC" report referencing the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ). And they had nothing about any of this. I'm tired of politics...
The water was PURE. Perfect drinking water.
@@Wirmish It took 5 days for anybody else to simply check the sourcing to prove that CNBC are absolute LIARS!!! I did it within 5 minutes and knew...
sounds like the same method used to shut down the Canadian oil industry expandsion.
If SpaceX built a launch site on the end of a pier over the Ocean, the environmentalists would claim the water deluge would harm the Ocean. Regardless, SpaceX moving towards a flame trench diverter on the 2nd tower greatly reduces the amount of water used
Political and competitive interference !!!!
Maybe SpaceX need to just move to Tonga
Again a lawsuit against those who complain is crucial !!!
The CNBC hit piece is a libelous lie.
IF i were Spacex, I'd seriously look at moving operations tp northern Mexico
Sounds like the environmentalists want to be held responsible for delaying the future of humanity. Not a label I would want to have to carry around.
This is what happens when BIG BROTHER disagrees with who you support for President. Don't worry they are only looking out for our best interests, so vote RIGHT (For who we chose ) or else.
You are really reaching with that statement. Let us know if you grab the moon with that reach!?
Hey Elon, how about agreeing to shut down if the state and feds agree to declare the 30 mile radius as toxic and allow no one to build, travel, swim, beech, vacation, camp, or otherwise enter the area for any reason. If you’re making it so bad, ensure no one ever goes into it again. They, they sure can’t tax you on it as developed can they?
Problem is "potential" contamination. Where is "actual" evidence?
worrying about the first flight now is silly, that won't happen again,
Shutting down the SpaceX site as handing the Chinese the space race on a silver platter.
Keep it up and SpaceX will move a few miles south across the border.
That is about as likely as the earth getting hit by a 10 km wide asteroid!! 😅😂
They can't move out of the US. Way too many industrial secrets. This is why SpaceX can't hire just anyone off the street no matter what they know or how skilled they are. The government has rules SpaceX must follow.
Envirmental groups present no evidence of pollution. The descriptions say could have mercury? "Could", is not a fact, but an opinion? Other "opinions", are equally, an opinion. Where is the evidence?
SpaceX originally planned Boca Chica for the Falcon. It is a better location for equatorial launches. In 2018, SpaceX announced a change in plans to use it exclusively for Starship.
Give them what they want. Shut the place down. Give all workers the rest of the year off. In their spare time, the unemployed may deal intensively with the conservationists.
Great coverage! Sad to see, like crabs in a bucket 🦀 slowing down progress.
I'm a great environmentalist. But if they had there way we would be in the stone age. With no people even alive. I bet they drive to there meetings
I suspect this has more to do with Musk's political leanings than the environment.
Doesn’t SpaceX get its water from municipal water sources
Imagine if the government paperwork doesn't allow astronauts to come back to Earth on Starship for this reason.
Let's get the truth out there, the complaint was made by CNBC, not any regulator , CNBC complained to a regulation TCEQ, and they found no violation on water quality, so just some more politicing bull
Protecting the environment is important and it’s easy to overlook stuff and become a super polluted area. However, it sounds like. People doing whatever they can to stop launches it’ll be ironic the same thing that did the California rail in stop our advancement and into space.
Next, he will move the site 2 miles south.
Keep dreaming.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 The cost of moving is finite. The regulators can make the cost of staying arbitrarily high. It is healthy to remind everybody that there are limits. Water follows the path of least resistance. So does money.
The town would dry up without SpaceX
What town are you talking about? Not Brownsville because that is a city of 200,000 and doing fine with or without Space X. And Boca Chica was also doing just dandy until Space X came in and bought up all of the property.
I think they should check the water in the general area then compare it with the water being discharged by delegue system. I sure they will find the water being discharged by the delegue system to be many times cleaner than the water in the local area. This information comes from a person that lived in Boca Chica. BTW The location of Starbase was Kopernik Shores. Boca Chica was about .6 tenths of a mile further down Hwy. 4.
two words... witch hunt 😄
Space X competitors are constantly filing lawsuits to use lawfare for financial benefit.
Environmental regulations are for little people.
Fine, make life difficult for SpaceX which is one of the most responsible companies in the world and you will see them move their company and employment to any other nations that will gladly welcome them. Why would we want the most important manufacturing company in the world here.
Wow what a click bate title..
Unless it's true!?!? 😅😂
If the people don’t like it, let them move to somewhere else .
Seems to me that Musk is getting gov on his back
As a scientist/consultant ( Ph.D. and PE) who has worked in the water and water treatment area, I keep wondering how the water chemistry from that tap water in the deluge system would be changed by the exhaust of the rocket engines. Evaporation would increase the salinity a bit but we are starting with fresh water so this would be small. The CO2 from the exhaust would drop the pH by about 0.5 pH units, which is trivial. Any excess methane or CO would be insoluble and do nothing.
Back half a century ago when they were testing the engines on the Saturn they used water spray in the flame pits with no issue with the water chemistry and that was when they used kerosene for fuel which can contaminate water, but now we have methane that can't contaminate water. I was dealing with water issues at the test site and the engines weren't a problem.
I got around the regulators by going to zero discharge which would be trivial if they had a discharge pond. I would just take the water from the holding pond and clean it up enough for reuse back into the cooling system. No discharge no permission required. I would clean up all their wastewater if necessary. Cleaning up 1 million gallons per day of reasonably clean starting water is trivial using near-off-the-shelf components.
The level is .113 and not 113. There is no violation as the mercury levels reported on that page were a typo
It is in the National Interest to have Starbase. and give it the permits, since we are in another Space Race with China, Russia, and
several other countries,
Mercury. how bizarre. I'd be testing where the water came from and the tanker or whatever the water was transported in. strange. 🚀
Apparently, a report (TCEQ?) mentioned mercury levels as a typo - I believe it was .113 and not 113, or perhaps .113 when the actual value was .013 ( dont have details) , but just a typo and well within safe range. CNBC went with the incorrect number, and SpaceX has been trying to straighten it out ever since.
@@jackeppington6488 thank you. yes i heard about that decimal typo. Always fun trying to fight the system. much less afford it.
I frequently dealt with the EPA and environmental groups- and they are NOT your friends. They are risk adverse and anti-business. They have no interest in using judgement and are typical government workers... and could not get employment in real business. Environmental groups are even worse... frequently left-wing ideologues. Inclusivity, environmental and civil rights groups are unfortunately fronts for Marxist ideologues. Guaranteed that the Marxist will continue to pressure SpaceX to heel. People that support space exploration must push back.
You lose all credibility when you use terms like Marxist!! The US is a capitalist based society and raising the Marxist term suggests extreme conservative partisan sensibilities or simply being wholly misinformed!!
On the Mars this waste water would be priced in pure gold
This is all about SpaceX getting another FAA FISHING LICENSE!!!
It's just silly, if I had Musks resources I would instantly start building a backup site somewhere more friendly. How's Mexico in these regards? I mean, there seems to be a lot of unused land just across the border from Starbase?
Ever watch firefighters put out an EV fire? 🔥
@@DCGreenZone I've seen them sit back and watch the EV burn and try and protect everything around it.
@@NeedsLessWedge Once they finally figured out that there is nothing they can do, now, put one or 100 in a basement parking garage at an apartment complex or condo.
@@DCGreenZonea nice insurance write-off for upside down investment property owners.
@@NeedsLessWedge Watch what happens to your car insurance premiums, rather, watch what continues to happen. That Tesla semi that went up in flames did enough environmental damage to equal what may be done by 1,000,000 ICE vehicles over their entire lifetime. So there's that.
I have an old azz truck and the state only requires liability. So I'm glad I don't have to worry too much.
Use existing launch sites as a precedent then establish a team of stakeholders including from the other sites to determine what all of them can live with in improving their environmental footprint. This is a reasonable approach. Legal contests should only be considered if there is a serious departure from procedures at other sites or lab tests demonstrate a pollutant issue
Governmental BS
Where's the mercury coming from? My bet is environmentalists planted it.
You would lose that bet!! 😂😅
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 Where's it coming from then?
@@adenwellsmith6908 I haven't studied the subject to answer the source of the mercury, but to accuse the environmentalists of planting it with zero evidence is irresponsible, conspiracy theory talk.
@@adenwellsmith6908 from Uranus
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 The evidence is that neither the vehicle nor the support equipment use mercury. It is a likelihood that it is germaine to mention. Chemical reactions do not transmute elements. "Once the impossible has been eliminated, what remains, however unlikely, must be true." Since it is certain the mercury did not come from the process, part of any investigation would be asking who has a motive. "Shut up" is not a counterargument.
How long before SpaceX moves out of the US?
Space x should pack up and move to florida
L A W F A R E ... ongoing "concerns"...any lab tests from actual discharges??? or vague "concerns" only?...is it time for crippling lawsuits against aggressors?
Great job covering this.
Mr Abbott kick the people causing trouble out of Texas!!!!
Yeah and his brand of republican need to be yeeted off plaent.
he is the problem
@Klausjp.ontheroadagain along the entire republican party in Texas. You know, in the 1870 to 1900 we'd have called cas lovers in the d.emocratic party and after saying that
@@GrigoriZhukov Is that English? I have no idea what you're trying to say.
If there is an opening for a launch on Tower 1, what would it take to allow for a Tower 2 launch?
😮elon move to veniswalia
Thank you for showing how to highlight a media report that dares to raise negative findings against SpaceX. CNBC is doing what any credible space reporter should be doing - reporting news not just advertorials.
When they launched before the deluge system, if it happened to rain the next day, would that be an unauthorized discharge?
“All environmental concerns”, these are never ending. Much like every vote should count no matter whether one has voted a 1,000 times.
Doesn’t the cape have the same problem? What do they do there about the water 💦?
Feds play by different rules...and to add to that, DoD plays by different as well.
And completely different structure type with the flame trench and it's drainage and capture systems
Thank you!
Elon move operations to Mexico!
GO ELON GO 🚀🚀🚀
Patiently waiting in Manchester UK