Narcissism vs Avoidant Attachment
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Regardless of the difference between Narcissism and someone who is Avoidantly attached, you don't deserve to be ghosted, disrespected, belittled, mocked, made fun of, yelled at, cursed at, or blamed for everything. I believe healthy relationships demand consistent intentional mutual respect, sacrifice and selflessness. If you believe you're willing to do those but your partner isn't, that relationship simply won't work. Is that sad? Of course, but it's also necessary for us to set healthy boundaries and advocate for our legitimate needs.
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I hate having an avoidant attachment personality type.
I would ask you to change this pattern of thinking. Instead of telling yourself "I hate this about myself", instead I would like you to have compassion for who you had to become as a child in order to protect yourself from pain or hurt or neglect. You are not bad for having avoidant attachment or for feeling like pulling away from intimacy. It's not a flaw, it's a protective coping mechanism, and I believe you deserve just much compassion as someone who is the opposite and over-relies on someone else for closeness and validation right? We all have things we need to work through, but when I look inside you and see your inner child, I don't hate them at all, and I would hope you don't as well, we would look at them and say "it makes sense why you're scared. I'm here, I'm not leaving, and I love you". That's the beginning of self love and self compassion and self forgiveness and ultimately healing =)
This response makes me admire and respect you so much more than I already did! Thank you for taking the time to so kindly respond to someone in pain. That's the kind of kindness that will change lives and ultimately the world ❤
@@louvretreekay12_ imagine that as you grew up and gained experience, rather than just changing, you were adding layers. So at the very core of your psychology is still you as a baby, driven by an instinctual need to survive. And as you grew you added layers around that, until you were a child. That child is also still inside of you, and the way they are thinking is affecting your mentality and your decisions today. The same would hold true for your inner teen, inner 20-something, etc.
When people talk about doing inner child work, they talk about thinking of that child as a separate person. Not in order to cut them out or distance yourself from them, but so that you can view them a bit more objectively, snd treat them the way you would another child, now, from your point of view as an adult. Rather than criticizing that child, a reasonable adult would be compassionate toward them, right? If you viewed the circumstances of your childhood with greater wisdom (especially after you’ve done some work to take an objective look at those circumstances), you wouldn’t think “this is a bad, defective child, and they’ll never do anything right.,” the way a lot of people think about themselves.
Children are highly adaptive, and they NEED the approval of their caretakers to literally live. If they sense emotional rejection or disconnect from their caretakers, they will adapt methods of either gaining approval, or protecting themselves from the terror of that rejection so they can keep living.
So if you were doing inner child work, you might sit down and think about yourself as a child, and when you developed certain traits, and what your reasoning was at the time for doing that. Like of you are avoidant now, maybe you were always criticized when you spoke up, or blown off when you tried to express affection, or your caretakers let you down a lot of the time when you entrusted them with something. So you learned that it was easiest and safest to keep quiet, to wait for others to express affection first and not to let yourself be reliant on them doing so, and to never expect anything from anyone else. But now, as an adult, you can say, “That little kid shouldn’t have been treated like that. The child that was me deserved better. It was not unreasonable for that kid to expect or want those things, and there are people out there who can offer them.” And then you do a lot of work to make that little kid inside of you really feel like that’s true, and that at the very least, there’s one person-the adult you-that won’t criticize or dismiss them, and can be relied on. And since the inner child is the foundation we build our adult mentality upon, when you nurture the inner child like that, you can start to reflect that repaired mentality in your adult mentality.
I get that. It’s painful to be avoidant and actually crave connection and even love. It feels like an endless game that’s rigged to lose. I know my avoidant tendencies can hurt people though and so I just come into each day prepared to f*ck up, own up, and apologize. It can get better. ❤️🩹
Dunk tank 🥴 lol I feel like the guy in the back of the dunk tank. I don’t think that counts as a game but it’s a carnival game lol
"Not the right people" is such a valuable addition. People who will bring warmth to your life will happily accept boundaries. They see boundaries for what they are, an invitation for someone to get closer.
And to draw someone like that, one has to be that... able to have and respect clear and healthy boundaries, willing to be vulnerable and accept responsibility.
I’ve learned that reasonable boundaries from someone is like them handing a paint-by-the-numbers to their heart.
And when they’re willing to accept mine, truly win/win scenarios can be found. That’s really heaven on earth.
The hardest to accept ❤
@@amyvowles9553❤
I really love how you put that
Thanks for not demonizing avoidant people, I’m not trying to hurt anyone, it’s literally just how I feel safe.
So would my boyfriend saying "I don't need to tell you how I feel", but expect me to say how I feel avoidant or something else?
Same
@@IWantToPetYourDoguhm no. Your boyfriend sounds manipulative.
I'm avoidant, what I do is say "hey babe I know you want to talk about this, but I really need a moment alone to sort my thoughts. Please give me some space and we can talk about it in 30 minutes"
I also have alexithymia so I often don't know what I feel/take longer to understand so I say "I don't know how I feel right now, please give me a few hours to reflect. I need that time to understand my own feelings. I am very overwhelmed right now please give me space."
Or "I love you and we will talk later but right now I need space. Please respect my boundary"
@@hashtagmate He has ADHD.
@@sarafletch I take it you haven't been to therapy and don't know how hard it is to find an effective therapist. Don't just say "Go to therapy."
My husband has Avoidant Attachment and had an extremely difficult childhood. His ACE score is like 8 or something. He never really let anyone in and was extremely guarded. We were friends online for a couple of years and had no intention of dating before we met irl and could not deny the chemistry and started dating. He had extremely low self esteem. He moved to my town, had dinner with my family every night, and saw how different my family and my parents operated. It started a process of building him up, making him feel valued and special and a part of our family. What a marriage with loving parents can look like. Now, 14 years later, I know him very well. I know that he fears rejection and is insecure. I know what topics of conversation will trigger his defensiveness. I still talk to him about them, it a gentle and mindful way. We are at the point now where he doesn't need space from me anymore. He gets angry less, he gets defensive less, he's more patient, he's an amazing father. Sometimes we still run into his walls, and his walls stay up a lot with strangers he doesn't know. But with family, he's himself, and I love him very much, and how much he's grown.
All of that sounds completely ordinary. Who wouldn't feel better when being married and having nice parents in law?
@@MrCmon113 Do you know what an ace score is or how it correlates to longitudinal outcomes? If not, I’d refrain from giving your expert opinion. 🤗
🥺
I am happy for hear this from you. It seems I can have hope.
Love this, I want to love a guy like this
The difference is the first will Hurt you consciously and the other will Hurt you unconsciously.
🥲 dealt with the second. Hard!
No they are both conscious
Yeah. It’s better to realize you two just don’t bond like that and cut them off. Move on with your life, I’ve done it myself but you got to be self aware to really realize it and work on your self awareness. Which this world lacks
@@nodiggity8746Ones not consciously trying to hurt you by taking a step back. They’re unconsciously hurting someone by trying to protect themselves - which is what they’re consciously doing
@@MysticalDyl they are still conscious they are hurting you tho
Dealing with a narcissist is what made me avoidant lol. I was so scarred by it that I became suspicious of most people. Especially people who seemed to be laying it on very thick early in a relationship
i totally get that. now i always was a person who loves some freedom but i'm a total boomerang who will come back and happily show affection. but after that experience i'm slightly paranoid and feel unsafe if there isn't a metaphorical door open in every situation so i can leave if need be.
I became avoidant too. It's painful, but it was better than being belittled, dismissed, snapped at, and have feelings minimized by him. Now he broke up with me for the fourth time (surprise, surprise). I used to be so open and bubbly and enthusiastic about love. Now I think if I were to try again, I'll be overly cautious and afraid of the slightest red flag. I'll just be hyper-vigilant and never be able to relax 😔
@@fariesz6786 this is so me but I've taken time to heal and hope that in my next relationship I will be able to relax. I dated a guy who just seemed so over the top with compliments and he also showed signs of not respecting boundaries, so I ran. But I always question was I too hasty? I just assumed he had narcissistic traits due to my first bad experience.
Me too! For 11 years now. I’m so goddamn scared of going through that again. It was absolute hell.
@@BlinkinFirefly Being in on/off relationship in itself is a red flag. The forth break up is far away from a "second chance". He will try to be on again. Narcissists do no let you go that easily.
A good friend gave me this advice:
"It doesn't matter what their attachment style is or whether they are NPD, etc.
If they choose to use manipulation on you (and each will do it in different ways) to get their needs met rather than being open, present, and communicative, they're not capable of an adult relationship, and you don't need that."
Spot-on.
All women will manipulate. And all man will , conscious or not , try to dominate and control believing they have the right to if they pay enough gifts.
This is even true in gay relationships.
For me its simple. I am not loyal and don't demande loyalty. Exclusif relationships are selfish.
Romance is temporary.
If you want "love" , get a dog.
❤
This was good👏👏
Are we friends? Lol, cuz that's my advice to ppl
But the avoidant isn't manipulating you rather the situation to avoid more pain. But sure I guess those of us have been hurt and thats all dont care to invite more pain in, and that makes them bad people in your eyes.
I can love an avoidantly attatched person. Understand one. Be with one, without judgement... But a narcissist, that's another story. There's a big difference between a person with abandonment trauma who has issues letting you in completely vs someone who wants to control you.
There isn't if they have ocd.
I can't live with either, it's too painful :(
@@BlinkinFireflyI can, so long as they're doing what they can to heal. But a narcissist... yeaaah no.
Avoidants aren't worth the trouble.
I don't mix well with either, I get impatient when people start playing mind games. You're either with me, or not, there's no in-between
I’m hyper-avoidant to the point I don’t even like being touched or relationships at all. Gotta love all the terrible humans who ruined me and left me in utter terror to let anyone get close.
Thank you for clarifying how this is not narcissism but learned trauma responses.
The danger people pose isn’t worth it. 😞 💔
It's good that you see where you hurt too much and have found what you need to do about it. Nobody is required to be with someone else on an intimate basis by any rules I know of. What you went through was clearly terrible and damaging. Sometimes, all that can be done is coping, accepting, and moving forward from there. I hope this isn't too much from a total stranger. I just want to offer you a brief moment of support and validation. If I erred in this, I can only ask your forgiveness.
@@lysanamcmillan7972 thank you for reaching out I really appreciate your kind words! I’m seeing a therapist and am taking meds to help, but there’s only so much that can be done. It’s nice to hear normalizing of being single because a lot of people just don’t understand and believe everybody needs someone. I have friends and family who are both accepting and supportive of my ptsd while also not always being the most understanding at times.. it’s been a decade now and it’s tiring for everyone. My family would love to see me doing better and it’s frustrating for them to see me so guarded.. but I am working on it!
Thank you again for checking on me!
lol
Perhaps your avoidance is a bit extreme because even if you let people who may hurt you "in", what's the worst that can happen? You are all too aware how terrible humans have "ruined" you, but think about how a good human can heal you. This may or may not help...
@@chrisantoniou4366well you could end up dead lol. Those dv and ipv rates are wild
"Won't that push people away?"
"Not the right people."
Thank you for that.
Not to mention that an avoidant attachment style also often forms as a RESULT of narcissistic abuse. Growing up with a narcissistic father and then forming close relationships with primarily narcissistic people just reinforced my avoidance, and the most recent relationship I had of almost a decade with someone who was a covert narcissist genuinely turned me to alcoholism and complete and total avoidance of forming any new relationships or even maintaining ones I already had. I have no energy for socializing anymore and have nothing left in me to give. I’d often rather be alone because even if it’s painful and I feel empty, at least it’s not as painful as completely losing myself in narcissistic relationships and suffering constant abuse. At least that’s what I’ve been telling myself.
Of course ultimately it’s my own responsibility to heal and take accountability for my actions and behavior. I’m working on it every day and slowly getting better, but it’s sooo hard. Trying to form new relationships and maintain closeness with people makes me feel like my life is in legitimate danger, so interactions that most people wouldn’t even think twice about are literally beyond exhausting to me. Nothing is easy or simple. I have to constantly reassure myself that I’m safe and no one can hurt me unless I let them, unless I give them power over me. It’s impossibly difficult to retrain myself, but I know the alternative is a life of emptiness, loneliness, and unintentionally hurting the people around me who I love the most. Constantly battling instinct is hard but I know that ultimately it’s worth it.
No it doesn't, it forms from emotional neglect or coddling as a toddler, which can be done by non-narcissists as well.
@@toastyknuckles892 that's why they used the word "often." It absolutely did for me. The richest part is spending years trying to heal from it and become that best friend/partner/sister possible, only for half the internet to go out of its way to tell me what an awful and narcissistic person I myself am by virtue of being traumatized in this way.
@@Abba-dabba-dooI totally understand. I’ve seen so many videos and posts and such demonizing people with avoidant attachment styles as if we simply don’t care, as if we’re selfish or even sadistic, and it both infuriates and hurts me. I honestly feel like people who are that quick to label and judge have plenty of issues themselves, though - they just lack the introspection and honesty to admit it to themselves.
You’re putting in the work. You’re facing the ugliest, most wounded parts of yourself and trying to be better, and to heal. That’s more than most people can say. You’re rising above, and you should be proud. Seriously. It takes courage and strength to break the cycle. It gives me hope to hear about people like you, with struggles similar to mine, who are fighting to overcome them. So thanks 💕 Don’t ever let them make you believe that you’re less-than, or that you’re someone who you’re not. You know who you are and what you’ve been through, and that’s what matters.
@Ash-zn1rx
Just try to get better, and that means getting therapy and working on yourself. Don't get into romantic relationships if you are not well.
I feel you. This is my story. It's like you stole my words. I'm on the track of healing but I'm still so scared of letting people in. It's like I'm losing myself. It's like the "free me" dies.
“The goal is facing fear of abandonment” That line was so heavy. I’m definitely an aloof avoidant and I need the realize the right people will understand and stay by me. It’s not my fault that my guardians and people from my past emotionally messed me up, but it’s my responsibility to not let the damage affect those I love. Thank you for posting.
This. Right here. I'm not avoidant but... As an abuse survivor who drove people away for a while due to anger and needed time to cool the fires, I get it.
And there are people like me out there who get it and will be able to be partners and provide a healing nest for an avoidantly attached person.
You're worth it, ok? Never doubt that.
It’s not your fault but it’s your responsibility to fix this as an adult. Others shouldn’t have to cater to toxic traits because you refuse to do the work. Either that or don’t date so you don’t inflict harm onto others.
"The right people will stay by me."
Well a true avoidant has not much empathy, cant self-reflect in front of you, cant really receive any critics, hardy will say sorry, will be controlling, because that's how they feel safe, will make his/her decisions, and later they just tell you about it, instead informing you, will stone wall you, silence treatment, will act like nothing happened, will avoid intimacy and any deep talks, etc.
So..this right person.. should be fine with all these and more I guess? Really?
Aaand another self-centered thinking of an avoidant. 20th partner in my life, few months in, well, he/she again wasnt the "right" person..
Damn.. the pain.. you cant even imagine..
Avoidants can also be rooted in an upbringing of emotional neglect, too, I believe. Not just the type that's obvious but when parents don't teach how to experience, express, or process emotions whatsoever and don't offer comfort or curiosity when you're hurting emotionally. This is the case for my dismissive-avoidant partner.
True, can also be from being in a relationship with a narc. It's the only way to survive the emotional abuse.
Spot on.
This is the same for my partner too!
I think that hit the nail on the head for me. And then trying to explain that to people. Nothing bad per se happened, it was a lot of lacking.
@@sheba389 how did you recognize it in yourself? My partner didn't realize that so many issues were due to this until being with me (his second adult long-term relationship).
I have the avoidant attachment style. When I was a child I never felt safe with anyone, never could show vulnerablility without being critisized. I can't open up about anything, not even my achievements, showing any part of me feels wrong. I stay away from people because I know I'd be frustrating to deal with, but it still hurts seeing people here call avoidants "selfish" or "heartless". I just want to be left alone
Amen!!
I feel you. We can overcome this, with the right people! 💪
We avoidants are also INFJ personality types who just don’t want the vampires around, and there are lots of them.
@@susanjones8489 Im INFJ and avoidant too. i was neglected and verbally abused as a child. Never felt safe or learn how to express feelings or even feel validated. I guess this why i develop avoidant personality and i love me time the most. social interactions exhausts me. I often ghost people not to punish them but because i love my me time alone, its where i feel safe and happy.
It is good that these types of people are recognized, not to judge, but to distance ourselves and avoid the trauma they can cause us.
It's also important to note that this narcissistic need for power, admiration, and control comes from a sense of _lacking_ both. These are people with self-esteem so deep in the pits that they needed to forge an entirely new identity to dissociate from it. The problem with this is, this fake sense of self requires regular upkeep from external sources to feel real, and the true self is still a raw nerve mired in toxic shame, so any negative feedback registers as a death threat to their nervous system - something the false self is designed to stave off at all costs.
Good explanation
Damn, this is too relatable
(I also noticed that there are no people in the comments that admit to any narcissistic traits, but a lot of them say that they’re avoidant. Almost like being a narcissist was an accusation not a mental problem)
-Absolutely. Its a terrible ordeal that of the narcissist
That is extremely well put. Narcissists can be terrible people, but that behavior is learned, rarely ever genetic. What’s really sad is that narcissists can be so stubborn that it’s impossible to help most to become better people.
There is no true self.
All self is a construction for other people. All self is looking at oneself as the organism appears to others.
“NOT THE RIGHT PEOPLE”!!!! BOOM!!! Truth bomb! Uh yeah, so I’ll be saving this one and watching it on repeat!!! Pushing away the toxic and holding out for what I deserve……..indeed……thank you so very much for the knowledge and the reminders to want more for ourselves!!! Appreciate you! 🙏
Appreciate you as well!!
It makes sense bc that’s what we would give, right? To someone who shows us why we can and feel comfortable having respect for them, we have no problem giving it and wouldn’t think twice to adjust our boundaries bc it’s also what we would want. We still love that person anyway so it’s no question at all to be flexible in a considerate way so why can’t it be received as well? If course it can, and those people do exist thankfully. This is great info thank you! Quite good to digest!
The toxic ones come out when you are already invested.
Here's another fun trick from a narcissist; accusing you of being avoidant, on purpose, to punish them, because they've proven they can't be trusted with your feelings. And you setting those boundaries disallows them more access to you, because they feel entitled to you either way.
It's also a form of gaslighting; "I never did anything that bad. You need a therapist for withdrawing yourself emotionally from me."
Yes and no. It depends on the situation. If feelings and boundaries have been clearly stated - you’re right. However sometimes stonewalling is used by narcissists as an abusive tactic. When they shut down any chance of a conversation knowing it will hurt someone. Personally, I don’t have a great sense of social cues and due to my own traumas it brings me a lot of anxiety if someone suddenly cuts contact with me with no explanation after we had a conversation where everything seemed ok. I need clear communication because otherwise my brain starts telling me a lot of negative things and it can put me into a spiral.
Intent matters. But people cannot see intent, they only see results and actions
This seems kind of weird to me. Setting boundaries is important. However, if you don't communicate that and still stay in the relationship while being distant, it is just punishment.
@@lalaa555yes I agree. I think sometimes people assume their partner/relationships should automatically know their boundaries. People in large don’t like having difficult conversations and the more recent habit of “cutting and forgetting” doesn’t help. Also, like stated in this video - the goal isn’t to diagnose. It’s to know what you personally can and cannot live with. Plenty of people who aren’t narcissistic also do stonewalling because they don’t know how to effectively communicate, but it’s still damaging to their relationships if they don’t ever communicate why they came to that point.
That's something like my husband I an recently separated from. He will redo the scenario to fit
him to look like he did nothing wrong.
@@nessieness1890
I need communication also. If another man pulls that sh-t on me again, I'm done with his sorry ass.
Grateful for this cuz I see so much hate and negativity toward avoidantly attached people (mainly from insecure attached types) and that’s just unfair. Calling them manipulative and narcissistic. Like no. Maybe the reason they avoid you so hard is because you’re judging them like this and they’re unsafe.
The video itself said avoidant behaviors are still often toxic/manipulative
@@Kirbyinthevoid uh yeah. All attachment types can be manipulative and toxic. All (except secure) attachment types have toxic behaviors. That’s why these theories exist. They’re about toxic and unhealthy relationships. Doesn’t mean the people in them are monsters.
FINALLY someone who gets it! Avoidants aren't trying to punish, we're just deeply afraid and that doesn't make it right, however, the INTENT is completely different.
THIS!!! I have PTSD from childhood abuse and neglect and now I have a super avoidant attachment style (I’m going to therapy and working on myself lol) and every time I see someone post a “if you do this, you’re a narcissist” short I feel so gaslighted, avoidant attachment styles and BPD have a TON of overlap but don’t deserve the same ire and disdain as an ego driven narcissist. People make mental health seem so black and white and it’s just… not. 😅
This! All of this! And I hate feeling villainized for what Narcs do when I’m just avoidant.
"it's just the same behavior"
when you'd rather be delusional than improve and stop hurting others
@@TheBiggestMoronYouKnow I think you missed the going to therapy and working on myself part… or I’m misunderstanding you, but also, narcissistic personality disorder is very treatment resistant and attachment styles aren’t as much, someone with an avoidant attachment style often can work on it, unlearn those habits and improve, whereas the narcissist often can’t. Avoidant attachment styles know what they’re doing is maladaptive and feel a lot of guilt and have a desire to improve, the narcissist won’t even entertain the idea they could ever be in the wrong, so don’t even care to try. There’s overlap but they’re NOT the same. 🌈
@@TheBiggestMoronYouKnowNarcs do not have empathy. The behavior is vastly different.
@@TheBiggestMoronYouKnow i guess you don't ever have to worry about changing your username
I once was an avoidant, but once I started study psychology and realised that and how it was affected me as well as the reason I was doing I started working hard on changing my pattern behaviour.
Today finally I can say I have been in a 6 years healthy and loving relationship and an able to be vunerable and love deeply as never before, it took me 35years but I am happy with my journey. Its such a blessing. Also a tip for those of you who are avoidant it helps if you choose to have a relationship with someone with a secure atttachement style.
I was so scared to fall in love because deep down I was afraid I would loose that person and suffer, the same way I lost my dad when I was 14. But when I realised that the same "protection mechanism" was preventing me from actually living life fully I made the decision to let go of my "armour" it didn't happen overnight...
Aw I’m so happy for you! It’s so nice to see success stories where people get through that darkness and get that happy ending.
I’m currently going through that darkness and it’s definitely a stressful and difficult process.
If you don’t mind me asking, do you have any tips on how you were able to develop a more secured attachment style?
It's funny that what's considered a key insight, a jewel of wisdom in Buddhism is considered pathological in modern psychology.
I am also an avoidant with a love for psychology. Lol I'm more aware but still not willing to be vulnerable yet.
@@sheba389okay im dating an avoidant attachment personality type person! Could you give me any tips on how to make him feel secure? He s just gone for long time after any period of close attachment!
I am working on my anxious avoidant self. I have been called narcissistic and selfish. Yet I know within I am just trying to protect myself while feel responsibility for everything that happens. It can be very damaging to everyone and I see that. Awareness, compassion and understanding is needed because I need the help of my partner not the tearing down that I usually receive. This calls it out in such a beautiful way and the ending I will have to rewatch a couple time while making me very emotional
I'm right there with you, @MHK88m
Im there too. I left a toxic relationship, and got into an even worse one. The moment I tried to talk about my feelings, to the point i cried infront of them.. they just shut me down harder and made me feel like the bad guy. All my walls that I tried to break down came right back up 10x stronger. Its really hard to trust again when you try and its thrown back in your face.@@DaniLong
❤❤❤
You are a narcissist
Can you advice me more.. My boyfriend is that. Unknowingly I had been bad with him all this while, I wish I could treat him better.. Any advice is welcome
Avoidant attached here. I learned how to communicate when I feel when my autonomy is being in danger when we get too close. I used to never communicate this and just ghost them without knowing why I did that. I just wanted to be on my own and never rely on someone. We have friends and we're not that antisocial, but when we get TOO close emotionally is like "nope, I'm not gonna do that, I feel uncomfortable" but we never want to hurt others, many times we even don't bother if they get a new partner. We feel vulnerable with feelings and we avoid talking about that kind of stuff, so we don't get attached emotionally to anyone. We can help you with your problems, we can support you, but we can't show vulnerability because that will cause us to feel unsafe and we get defensive and even in denial.
When I learned to express those thoughts and tell others that it's my way of protecting myself, I let others to understand me and to feel safer actually because they can help me by letting me have my space and time or not forcing me to be emotional.
*A shout-out to my avoidant attachment mates:* express your boundaries and express why you do avoid the relationship. It won't make you vulnerable, but it will clarify stuff. If they don't actually understand, screw them! You are already stuggling with that avoidant attachment. You'll find someone who will understand. And also, you have to work on it too, you can find safety in expressing things (not in a vulnerable/emotional way because you are not obligated to be emotional) but try to find your "love language"
Also, if the goal is to REMAIN in a relationship for a long time it is important to remember that people change, even when they don’t mean to or want to. I USED to be an outgoing extrovert, a people pleaser. But I recently discovered, and had confirmed passed my ability to refute, that my two closest friends were in fact narcissists that did not and could not understand that I put the needs of my family over their personal desires. These friendships were cornerstones for me, that spanned generations. My oldest friends, the type you consider family. Sure, I’d seen warning signs moments of selfishness my whole life, but I argued that they were inconsequential, that when it was truly important, life or death, they would respect need over want. Then tragedy struck my family and they were not there. Instead they were resentful, why wasn’t I there for them per usual, why wasn’t I backing down over what we needed? Point is, I find myself now behaving like an introverted avoidant. I don’t WANT to make new friends. I find myself overly bitter, like bitter has become my resting state. And I am married ,so my spouse has to deal with being married to someone who is nearly polar opposite in personality to who I used to be. It helps that one friend my spouse has never trusted and the other was also their best friend. My spouse gets to both say “told you so” and “I relate, I am just as betrayed.” I don’t WANT to be this way and I am trying to get out of this mind frame. But it is hard, and I am so grateful my spouse is patient, and willing to deal with a loved one who has become asocial. I really AM trying. I am thinking of starting a D&D group, or maybe a gourmand group, some kind of small regular gathering I can feel in control of rather than taken for a ride, and going along with someone else’s program for fun. I need escape contingencies these days. I don’t want my old friendships back, but I do want to be the person I was before. But the person I am right now is a hermit who looks at prospective friends as potential time wasted. I can never have back the connection of old friends, and new friends feel like so much work. Old me says I need to have friends. New me doesn’t think it’s worth it. And my poor spouse is along for the ride.
Hmm. I don't know how this went down for you. But I changed a lot from the beginning of my current relationship to now. And I've always attributed that to my current partner.
I had to deal with a lot of very traumatic things on my own and he was the one person that showed me, maybe I didn't have to deal with absolutely everything by myself. That I deserved care and love and even to be a little selfish sometimes.
And that allowed my brain to ease off of constantly being in survival mode. Which, in turn, led me to figuring some things out about my self.
I'm different than I was and sometimes I do feel negatively about that. Like I pulled a switcheroo.
I'm trying too. Anything mental health related takes so long. And is so hard. But we both deserve to be happy. I hope you get to that place. I'm proud of you. ❤
I wonder if you’d be able to show us examples of unhealthy relationships from well-known TV or Movies?
the thing is, TV shows and movies aren't the best examples of _any_ kinds of relationships
Kody and Robyn towards the other sister wives on the show Sister Wives.
@@otaku-chan4888this is true but in my experience too many people model their relationships and (silent) hopes after what they see on the screen anyway (men more than women esp. in my experience anyway)... It would be very interesting to have this topic dived into by this creator 🤔
@@elora2993 in this vein, I think it'd be cool if we got a breakdown on how some of the "good" relationships shown on TV and in movies are actually _not_ healthy!
@@otaku-chan4888 absolutely! Would love to see that.
Having an abusive, narcissistic parent is probably why I'm avoidant with cPTSD. It's not easy, especially when you're having to try figure out a lot without support and trying to learn where to properly set boundaries and trusting people with that, and everytime someone breaks that...... It's just exhausting. And its so hard to get help because people don't understand why you're afraid of them and don't trust them or why it's so exhausting to be constantly out your comfort zone.
*hugs* I'm right there with you, friend. I've been really struggling lately with the idea of going little to no-contact with my narcissistic mom... It has been A LOT to deal with her the last couple of months in particular. But, having gone through life not knowing what she truly is has definitely messed me up big time. Hang in there!
Golly man, I’m so w/ya on this…
I never had emotional closeness or safety with my parents, and I hid in my room from my mom's outbursts (she dubbed me the recluse and never asked how I was doing/feeling). All I knew was pain and loneliness, so letting my husband in is incredibly difficult. It's like a dance. I feel ugly because my feelings are not pretty sometimes (tired, overworked with caring for our four kids and home), which makes me shut down. I went invisible for so many years when I was struggling that it feels nearly impossible to lean into my partner when I feel awful (especially if that means I'm frustrated or disappointed in him). But I'm learning. Some of it is sleep deprivation, which can kick anyone in the ass HARD. I'm trying to learn how to give grace to myself and those around me, while not slipping into the people pleaser that doesn't ask for help with the hard stuff. I wish I didn't overthink everything. Another coping mechanism.
I wish I didn’t overthink everything too.
Yep high five to the other over thinkers and over feelers
You're not alone in how you're feeling. Your comment resonates with me so much, because my mom did some of the same things. She didn't understand how to process her own emotions which in turn led me not knowing how to process mine. So now as an adult, I'm unlearning what I saw as a child and learning how to communicate my emotions with grace. Not lashing out, not blaming everything on others and I know that I've done a lot of work. I'm a work in progress just as you are and don't give up on yourself. You've got this. Sending you love and peace. Take care. ❤❤❤❤
I just turned 30, and I never related to a comment so much as I have this one...thank you🥺
It gives me hope, that maybe I have to learn to unpack some more of my past, so I don't bring as much of it into the future, or a future with hopefully my own family in it at least!
Thanks for sharing a piece of your journey ❤
“Not the right people.” 🤯 Mic drop moment right there! 👌🏻👏🏻
As an avoidant, I appreciate this video and comparison. I would rather isolate myself from the world and remain as independent as possible than risk the vulnerability of depending on others for anything. We are all treated differently in this world with different experiences and perspectives, and as such we come to our own conclusions as to what behaviors are most beneficial to us.
In my case, I realized at an early age that people weren't for me. Humans are like chimps and gorillas. Very cruel and selfish primates driven by a social hierarchy and motivated by craving for social approval and status. This never clicked with me and I never behaved according to these motivations. Always did my own thing and adopted interests and hobbies that I enjoyed regardless of whether or not it was popular. And I was abused and neglected as a kid which is likely a factor in my development. Self sufficiency is survival.
Well said. Precisely what I was thinking. Too much pain and suffering. I'm better alone and on my own. Though this lesson has come after pain.
Not all ppl are like that tho
Yeah people have the rights to not reciprocate feelings. They don't owe you anything. Move on, find someone who is suitable for you
Couldn’t agree more.
I relate very much.. explains why i can never feel safe or be vulnerable to anyone..
I love it how you say these personalities are not "wrong" or "not ok", you just say we decide who and what we accept in our relationships. Many people just dismiss everything as toxic and unhealthy and blame both you and the person you're dealing with because "eww that's not perfectly healthy so you're both evil and wrong"
Your point of view made me feel good for once in this mess of toxic positivity people try to impose.
nobody is demonizing anything :) I suggest you stop being sensitive because this is a public forum. Theres a difference in telling the truth about someones evil behaviour vs demonising. Its better to not play victim, but I guess it cant be helped. Play stupid games win stupid prizes right? Hit dogs holler :)
@@urdadsonic1036 - Oh, found the kind of people the commenter was talking about!
Thank you so much for the video.
I sadly hurt people before I found out about attachment theory (and why I am so avoidant, cold, distant) and started my journey to become the person I needed as a child.
I got labeled a narcissist back then and while I understand the pain I caused, I didn't like being wrongly "diagnosed" by people who have their own package of insecurities to carry.
I am still on my journey and from my current perspective:
I wished I knew earlier. I remember when I read 'attachment theory' by gibson and it gave me hope that change is possible.
Being avoidant does not mean you are cold. Let's use a physical example. If you walked outside, and got massively burned every time you did, you would begin to avoid that hurt, and try to protect yourself from it. That has NOTHING to do with the kind of person you are. Are you cold to the outdoors and everything in it? No, you just want to avoid getting burned, and you do that the only way you know how. You have to learn that not everything will burn you, and protect yourself against what does and not every single thing. It sounds easy, but it's not, especially when it's people who burn you. It's really hard to tell which ones are safe because the ones who aren't hide it so well. To use the physical again, let's say you have a sun allergy, and learn how to protect yourself from that specifically and be ok around everything else. It's a thought.
@SchienenGrief - Same here! So nice to have someone who knows what he's talking about reinforce that the *intent* is different, even if it might look the same from an outsider's point of view.
U still suck
Your accountability is cool. Happy to hear your on your journey. I am too, we got this
Avoidance and narcissism don't look the same. Avoidance and abuse can look the same. Even when people get it they still don't get it.
As a true avoidant, I want to thank you so much for this video! People like us get misunderstood so often but damn, we're not bad, we have no intention to harm/control/devalue anyone, we just wanna feel safe and, unfortunately, the only way to reach it is distance🥺
Yes you are. Not as bad as a nacicist but you do harm people. Fun fact, avoidant people tend to say "It's others fault" because they can't tolerate emotional resonsabilities and problems, they get extemely anxious about it, and they tend too to say "you're overreacting" and everything related to anulate resonsabilities and own problems, they follow that pattern most times until they partner notice it and have gone through therapyand suffering (guess who is the one who they choose as partners: emotional people who tend to blame themselfs and assume others resonsabilities, they doesn't choose avoidants as them, it's rare) I passed through that, years with one of them, THEY DO HARM PEOPLE and not a little, a lot, and they do bad things, they're selfish, they're extemely delicate (they blame you for that but try to talk a little bit too rude and see how they hide their tail between their legs and start running away or start being agressive but never assertive) they do care about appeareances, money, status, they tend to focus on your weakness, they don't give compliments until you start feeling the "lack" (can be very very long times) etc. Stop saying that, you may fool new people, or new partners, even your own parents or relatives, but not psychologists or enough inteligent long time partners.
Yesss to this.
I'm struggling with him going unavailable for long after having a meaningful time with me everytime.. I was being bad n mean to him.. Now i know what's bothering him.. I want to be his home.. Safe home but how can i? When he goes like this for like a week?
I'm very thankful that sumbody out there actually knows the difference between a pile of shit and sumbody who's done being hurt
I am done being hurt.
It’s not rocket science those people are just clingy and entitled
Somebody*
@@katjay3125 boohoo 🤣😂
"but won't that push people away?"
"Not the right people"
Wow❤️
Thank you for putting this into words. I do have avoidant personality disorder. I have panic attacks when I try to talk to new people. I am terrified when they start liking me, and I don't WANT to ghost them when we start talking, but it becomes the only way I feel safe when I look at my phone. I'm happier in the moment when I don't see texts from new people, even though later when they give up I feel so much regret. It is maladaptive, and I know why I am like this and I am working on it, but it's so hard to stop self-sabotaging
same. a lot of internal issues i can kind of reason my way out of but this one thing makes me feel crazy... over time my innate shyness developed to the point i think it might almost be a disorder. i can recognize certain thought patterns where i justify cutting people off so i can feel better in the short term even though it's not what i really want. but i keep doing it anyway bc i don't know how to be normal anymore. starting to think i need therapy lol
You are deserving of kindness, friendship and love.
I relate so much to the avoidant one. I've been conscious about it. Something's wrong with how I function with people that I know.
I'm in my thirties and never had even a little kiss, never dated and never really enjoyed my teenage years. I grew up with a chaotic, controling smuthering mother and a mentally absent, emotionally unavailable, abusive father. So I Iearned on my own about life through school and t.v. I don't know really what is a family, a loving one. It's always been chaos. I'm terrified of intimicy and become very protectrice of my space and individuality whenever someone wants to even be friends with me. I'm loner and my me time is precious.
Sorry about your ordeals.. I hope you find someone one day, who will make you feel at home
It happens the same situation with me, Overprotective mother, abstent father, terrrified over intimacy, having no friends and im only child
I believe this will stop one day
Btw youre not alone hope we can get better
@@NataliaMoon29 you are a sweetheart. People see me like I'm crazy. I feel less alone thanks to you. It's an every day work on myself. We will be strong & resilient 💪 happy New years btw 💜
If you are not okay with your self imposed isolation then it might be worth it to look into avoidant personality disorder too, you may find it fits you better than the dismissive (aka avoidant) attachment style does.
Wonderful analysis! Packs quite a punch in just under two minutes
Thank you, Jimmy because there is an ethical element here where an avoidant person is knee-jerking out of their own trauma and not unethically manipulating events to get attention and cause problems
The avoidant literally just wants to protect him/herself. The avoidant just wants to avoid getting hurt and/or abandoned again. This is the point. PS the ""Not the right people" line is just pure gold! When you start changing for the better you will loose some people that either lacked boundaries, empathy or just were not willing to relate to you in a healthy way but you will also meet people who are more than willing to have a healthy and balanced relationship with you!
I feel like in a lot of cases, people are using the word “narcissistic” instead of simply “abusive.” Not all, but a lot. Also: NPD, as a personality disorder, is often just as traumagenic as the avoidant. Doesn’t excuse anything obviously, but lets not assume that all narcs are born that way.
yes,often narcissistics have one, or two, narcissistic parents, and/or other trauma. my older sister has this situation. i will have nothing to do with her because she is an extreme narc, but yeah, i can still see where it comes from. (of course, myself and other siblings also have a narc parent, and arguably worse abuse and trauma, and don't have narcissistic traits, in fact overly empathetic if anything).
@@trishna_6815am always a little wary of anyone who claims to have been raised in a narc family and has zero narcissism tendencies and full of empathy. ‘It’s all the other’.
Isn’t that just what a narcissist would proclaim?
All humans are flawed, complex and all humans are capable of presenting a degree of narcissism, its a protective mechanism… especially if being scape-goated in a toxic family system. NPD however, needs a clinical diagnosis and is incredibly damaging to others.
Yes. It's the whole thing of therapy speak infecting every day grammar and being used comepletely wrong and villainizing mental health. Abuse, avoidant attachment, npd, bpd, apd, and ocpd all seem vaguely similar with a skim of surface level symptoms (and let's not forget, avoidant attachment isn't even really considered a condition, it's more a way of seeing the world), but are wildly different conditions with wildly different spectrums and wildly different effects on the person and those around them. An abusive person can be distant, narcissistic, moody, refusing of connection, and controlling, but it does NOT mean they're one of the other things or vice versa
Narcissists are basically avoidants who avoid their inner reality by controlling a fake one, and they are even disconnected from the inner part that says hurting people is wrong.
No narcs are born that way. The fact that the internet treats narcissism like some highly visible concept is laughable.
Part of narcissism is the ability to pretty much fool the people around you. Narcissism can appear to be so many different things... And is honesty a common defense mechanism, which is annoying. But with all that said, I find it doesn't even matter why people are doing things. If the avoidant person does the same actions as the narcissistic person, just for different reasons, the results are the same.
Why does it matter if someone is born a certain way or not. No one should have to put up with an avoidant or narcissistic person invalidating their feelings and constant defensiveness/invalidation.
I'm not sure if these people even need to change but they probably just can't romantically succeed with those who may require accountability and emotional reliability.
After writing my first college research paper about childhood trauma, I discovered I have developed a mix of attachment styles including “Avoidance”. That paper was a real eye opener.
Don’t self tag though, that’ll drive you mad buddy
I learned I have an anxious avoidant attachment style and I struggle with secure attachment and intimacy because of a ingrained fear of pain. My mother was the patriarch in my life and she destroyed me and my self esteem every chance she got. I feel emotionally numb at times. It feels painful that the only way I can genuinely let my emotions out is by watching cartoons from my child hood. I didn’t ask to be born or have my innocence damaged but my mother decided to take her hatred of men out on me
I'm happy this was made. I thought my ex was narcissistic but didn't make sense cause I felt like he actually loved me. Wasn't until learned about attachments I realized he was avoidant. Very helpful!
How did they become such trash people?
As someone with Avoidant attachment I’m really glad you made that distinction. I had to check myself when learning about Narcissism- like could I be one 😮 but I’m way too empathetic and my motivations are definitely that of the avoidant
I was extremely avoidant, I got out of it by practicing vulnerability with the closest of my friends, talking about things I would normally be afraid to share, and learning from their reactions that it is safe and even rewarding to be vulnerable. Therapy also helped a lot in disrupting my illusions of being less than. Took me 1-2 years of controlled vulnerability to step out of avoidance, and 1-2 years more to reach secure attachment. Good luck you got this. ❤
🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 thank you for clarifying this because I’ve been accused of being a narcissist and I try to explain that I don’t distance myself to punish ppl I do it to protect myself from the abuse ppl dish out… like I literally am not expecting anyone to correct or change their behavior because after a reasonable amount of attempts to try and have good faith communication with someone who just keeps criticizing me I have no reason to expect them to change… but I can atleast remove myself from this toxic situation… especially when the boundaries I try to set are not honored. And I acknowledge that in this moment of my life I don’t have the tools to handle that kind of verbal abuse from people… so I’m working on myself as well
So you remove yourself from the toxic situation you caused? lol 🤣 that’s hilarious
It's ironic, but the people who are most likely to "confuse" an avoidant personality with Narcissism are the Narcissists themselves - it's called projection...
@@Karll541That’s the name of their game! Ridiculous.
@@Karll541 gaslight much ? You’re the type hurt people avoid if they’re smart.
@@susanjones8489 lol, no I’m not idiot 🤦♂️
" Not the right people " hit me hard. I saved your video and will repeat watching this. Very helpful and easy to understand.
nobody is demonizing anything :) I suggest you stop being sensitive because this is a public forum. Theres a difference in telling the truth about someones evil behaviour vs demonising. Its better to not play victim, but I guess it cant be helped. Play stupid games win stupid prizes right? Hit dogs holler :)
*puts u in meet blender*
Not necessarily helpful for EVERY person, but I think another good tell...
An avoidant person may genuinely request space for a little bit if they're feeling overwhelmed by something, but they should be willing to return to you when they're ready to talk about it.
Someone with narcissistic traits is going to expect you to just know when the right time to approach them is. Which is basically never, but gives them that sense of control.
(Just like Jimmy says, not using these terms as concrete, unchanging labels and diagnoses, but just to further the conversation)
Someone with NPD will not want to discuss feelings. They will not approach their partner to work on things and that is a sign.
this. people are like "i'm avoidant, all i do is emotionally damaging things whenever i feel a bit uncomfy, i'm not the bad guy" like.....yeah you are lol
@@TheBiggestMoronYouKnow thank you. I don't understand why so many people are so willing to latch onto a label and ask to be excused because it has a label...
Why in the video that stated it's not good for people to have to deal with the negative side effects of someone's upbringing are so many people hearing the exact opposite?
@@snazzydrewSame reason they’re saying what they are saying in the first place and can completely remove responsibility from themselves in their own mind for their damaging and selfish behavior; they are thoroughly selfish, and this “label” gives them what they believe to be an excuse or a sort of “diagnosis” that they can waive in response to any criticism.
They’re much more akin to narcs when it comes to selfishness than this video acknowledges, but their excuse is “w-w-well I was bit uncomfortable, Nevermind that everything makes me uncomfortable, so I just had to…-“
No patience for these people. Read their comments; they want, no, *expect* you to treat them like they are children. Utterly bizarre.
@@TheBiggestMoronYouKnowAbsolutely
I feel like the term “narcissist” is thrown a round a lot these days. It is possible for someone to have narcissistic traits, and still not be a narcissist.
It's still possible, there were many cases like people would accuse narcissistic just because like small hint of look like narcissistic, and sometimes the real culprit themselves can accuse people for being narcissistic also. That's why I really am skeptical of things if not with neuroscience based first, even every fact can be changed if science can have result different. NPD is real for sure, it's real mental disorder, but I guess many factors to be said the one.
everything changed when I truly understood my partner was an avoidant and I could finally see his behaviour making sense to HIM. All the changes I had attempted to implement in my behaviour suddenly happened. Understanding the other without analysing their behaviour with ourselves as the centre of it all is key. Your videos helped a lot along the way.
I’m the Avoidant🙌🏽 I don’t want NO human interaction😣 Unfortunately, I have to work. I don’t want nothing from nobody but to be left alone. Yep! Been hurt and I never want to love or feel anything for people again. My children are enough and a few family members😂 It all makes sense now
Im also the avoidant. Last relationship I was in I legit couldn’t answer the question of what would make me feel safe around my partner. I ended matters when it became obvious they were heading into real love and I was still struggling to look forward to dates. Nobody deserves to have someone they love see them like a chore.
If I could afford to single parent I’d 100% skip the marriage/commitment. As it stands? Childless.
I want to live in a self sustaining bunker so I never have to see another human being ever again
I'm avoidant, trying to heal and making progress I think, but still so damn tired, to the point where it sometimes feels physical, and confused by friendships etc, I could easily go live in a cabin in the woods.
lol
@@kingofichigoI feel that way most of the time. Disgusted with manipulative disturbed unhinged people and their drama. My bunker has 4 rooms, AC, and a cozy bed. Also a deadbolt lock ❤and peephole so I can decide wether I want to open the door. I enjoy the peace and quiet. To some, that’s odd behavior. To me, it’s freedom.
I know someone who was maybe avoidant as a child then later became a raging psychopath narcissist but used avoiding as a major weapon . It’s an easy weapon because they can play victim always blaming that “ well whenever we talk you do this or that or the other so …….” Explaining to these types your personal boundaries and why you feel the need gives many a way to use your own explanation themselves and project their behavior onto you ! It’s really Crazy !
That definitely is someone with NPD.
Fantastic explanation, pretty much every attachment style has traits in common with narcissism. Avoidants are just the most commonly mislabeled and misunderstood.
Many are also introverts, and so they’re labeled avoidants.
Thank you for making this. For a long time i struggled with the question "am i a narcissist?" i never want control over anyone else but myself. Ive gotten so much better at my self control too just by letting myself have a moment to think about the situation before i react, instead of letting the fear and doubts take over me to run away i can now clearly communicate my need to step away and evaluate a situation for myself and before i used to just actually physically flee no words just tears (probably) and the back of my head yelling at me to survive. Im so happy that ive actually been able to let some people close to me. Not entirely yet as its still a work in progress but even this progress is a decade i didnt waste getting better for myself and so i dont hurt others by pulling away permenantly when they dont deserve it. Now they can know ill be back and that makes me cry happy tears
THANK YOU so much for this video. I'm sick of people saying Avoidant Attachment is equivalent to Narcissism.
You know this was a very comforting educational experience for me, for the longest time I had a fear I might be narcissistic because of my lack of intimacy in romance, which I know isn't something to proud of regardless, but 99% of all narcissistic help videos are mostly about AVOIDING them, or combating them in an almost dehumanizing way, and always making it sound like there was no hope for someone with NPD, "Sucks to suck" and all that, it was very demoralizing when I started harboring doubts that I had it, I still feel bad for anyone with NPD thats self aware and truly seeking help, it seems like a very unsympathetic stigma permeates the entire discourse and is probably hindering progress towards treatment as a result.
I am the avoidant. Fiercely independent even if it means I’m lonely. I just don’t like that I might hurt people like a narcissist. So it’s alway better to be alone in my view point. That way I made the choice, nobody took it from me this time. But I still have to deal with narcs, so I’m working on not staying away, just being aware and present for myself, and the ones I love.
Thanks doc, this kind of stuff helps me identify my issues more. People like you Dr Rahmani, and the doctor from surviving narcissism have helped a lot. Oh and my amazing therapist.
OMG, thank you! I'm still healing from the narc husband who discarded me in 2017. This vid helps me understand what was going on, so helps me heal. Thank you SO much. He wasn't avoidant. He's a narcissist psychopath. The only time he experienced joy was when putting down, insulting, and humiliating others.
I feel you❤
He only felt joy when putting others down and you married him?
@@MrCmon113 He probably love bombed her in the beginning and made himself seem like the most caring thoughtful guy, there’s a self aware narc on here who talks about how they do this strategically to lure you in then slowly exert their abusive tendencies little by little so you don’t even notice until it’s too late then eventually the mask falls and you see their true self, the one that revels in your pain. Love how you’ve got it all figured out though!
Thank you for posting this; for years I was terrified that I was a narcisist because my dad was (lots of conversations and therapy managed to convince me I am not roughly a year or two ago) but.... seeing this gave me a NEW vovabulary word to look into because that describes me pretty much perfectly.
The more I educate myself on this topic, the more lights go on. Thanks for being one of my teachers and bringing me into the Sunshine 🌞
This is true… I weirdly have experience as both and as a narcissist people didn’t really register is people who need care, just pawns on my chessboard. My partner was the one person I knew wouldn’t leave, it didn’t matter how I treated them. I essentially “trained them like a dog.” I was “objectively better than everyone” so I wanted to be treated as such (in quotes cuz that was not an objective statement)
As an avoidant partner, I felt small and scared and I always felt vulnerable. Distancing myself did make me feel safe. I didn’t want power or control or special treatment, I just wanted to feel safe again.
THANK YOU. I’ve been so caught up redeeming myself from this narrative that I’m a narc just because I do not like conflict and am sensitive to criticism because of abuse. Labeling people as a narc just eliminates self reflection by boxing someone in as the bad guy.
omg I needed this, I was truly starting to believe I was a narcissist
lol
yeha me too, when that one person said how doing certain things is just being a ceuel motherfucke i was so confused on how would be me being scared of a relationship is being cruel, I didn't even though on that way and i thought i was so egoistical i didnt see kt, it hurts because first ur victim of narcissistics and then when you try to protect yourself you are one
As an avoidant who was hurt in the past, i agree with this statement.
Also, i haven't found someone worth risking it all again for. So im focusing on me. I'm not avoidant to the people close to me, just everyone else.
Oh Gosh, I feel you nailed it again ! I am happy living alone with my dog... because no one is judging me every-single-minute. It is such a relief and a freedom
Love all the work that is presented and it makes the nuances so clear! Thank you for all you do and create ❤
Thank you for this :)
I've spent years dealing with it, at least half of the time I'm securely attached but it's still a struggle because not only is my learned attachment fearful avoidant. I'm a bit of a "fixer".. I know you can't save people who won't save themselves and I'm not doing it to make myself feel better, but I want people to be better than their trauma. I want to give people the chance to grow by giving them a place to heal and grow. I'm working on it. 😅
You are doing it for yourself if you "want" people to be better than their trauma. Even if you want peace on earth it is still coming from what YOU want which is inherently self-directed. So even though you believe yourself to be securely attached (which I doubt because anxiety is the thing that makes us want to fix others) begin with accepting that very few people who are securely attached are attracted to those who aren't.
😅 Don't waste your time. Those energy vampires are gonna suck you dry and before you know it. The spark and happiness in your eyes will be diminished! And trust me, I used to be you until I got 0 help in return for being there for everybody. They literally take your kindness for weakness until you curse them out and cut them all off And I know I wasn't the problem. Because their still begging to be back into my life because they can't find anybody as good as me. And that's ex-boyfriend's friends work colleagues family all of them. Good people are rare as unicorn.
@@monejohn9973 this is psychotic
This is very helpful. For a multitude of reasons (all very reasonable although also very maladaptive) I have been avoidantly attached in all of my intimate relationships. All the stuff about narcissism has had me wondering about myself, but I always come back to my intent. I thought maybe it was just me and I was just making excuses, so this was really helpful. Thank you.
Also, "Not the right people" is killer. Thank you for that, too.
My bf is avoidant and I have met him with understanding, acknowledgement and safety. He's coming out of his shell. It's so SO wonderful to see him growing and becoming more secure. I'm happy I took time to heal my anxious attachment style so I can help someone as wonderful as him heal and become more secure.
Not the right ppl!!! I am literally in tears rn becuz I am avoidant attached but I've never heard someone be so nice and strait forward abt it.
Something about your voice is very reassuring and makes me feel like I’m gonna be ok, instead of oh no…I’ve been there/done that.
Spot on for both personality types.
I am involved in a long term marriage of over 20 years.
One of us is exactly what Jimmy said … the avoidant.
It’s precisely the way he described it as being.
I had never heard the condition laid out so well.
It’s sadly turned into a marriage of convenience.
The whole “At least I’m not alone” syndrome.
“At least I have a companion in life” excuse.
It’s a harsh reality.
There’s next to no affection.
Very surface.
There is most definitely no “deep” or philosophical discussion or communication in that manner.
Just… kind of like a “conveyor belt”.
Runs on and on in a very uninspiring, dull and lonely way every day.
Just like a conveyor belt in a factory.
Same shit, different day 😖😞
* I think most ppl live in quiet desperation on this God forsaken sphere.
Just… waiting.
THANK you. I get accussed of being an asshole just for keeping to myself and not bothering anybody. Having extreme social anxiety is a bitch, but that doesnt mean I'm one too.
This. Why do so many people feel completely entitled to ALL of our time? If I take time out of my solitary bliss to be with someone, I'd appreciate not being smothered!
lol
I'm sure those coments are not from strangers but people close to you, stop playing the victim, having a relationship means responsabilities like ir or not, and if You can't handle it don't ever have a family, until you healed yourself
@@hubbadouble8025 Thanks for adding to the long list of gaslighting idiots I'm happy to never talk to. 🖕
@@hubbadouble8025”until you’re good, don’t get near me” is avoidant, isn’t it?
“NOT THE RIGHT PEOPLE” That was powerful!
Some time ago I learned that in martial arts there is something called “keep your space” rule and that practically means: react to an attack with just a perfect amount of force. To be able to exercise that type of “balanced force” I continuously had worked less on my fears (trainer: “nothing is going to happen it is just a sparing, it is safe environment you can trust me as I fake the attack” me: “suuure” followed by running away/smashing him) and more to actually grow to having a healthy, focused and confident ego (“if you enter my space I will know quite well how to act and that acting will be dignified and respectful”). For somebody who used to have slight traits of avoidant personality, this knowledge on how impactful a healthy, focused and confident ego can be was an eye-opener for life in general, allowing me to reach levels of intimacy that I did not even know exist. Hope it helps to somebody.
I wish we used a different word from narcissist because people with actual diagnosed Narcissistic Personality Disorder are not evil demons who seek to control the world and yadda yadda :(
(Speaking from someone who is best friends with an NPD guy! He is a wonderful person who recognizes his thoughts/urges are bad and doesn't act on them)
Wow. This basically sums me up a bit. So it's avoidant. And here I was worried it was something else.
Yay! I'm so happy for you, here's why: I learned that I am a dismissive avoidant at the beginning of my current relationship and it's a total game changer. My partner doesn't take me "going quiet" personally and is patient while I work on becoming securely attached. This is the first fun relationship I have ever had, all because we both understand what's going on.
@missa5232 yeah it's really hard for me too to open up for fear of being judged. And it wasn't that I was keeping secrets it's because that felt comfortable for me because that was a false coping mechanism, when in reality the right people will not make you feel that way and they will encourage you, not bring you down.
i was with a avoidant with narcissistic tendencies for 3 years and i was somewhat secure in the beginning and got suuuper anxious throughout the relationship. he treated me so badly i have to forgive myself now for not leaving sooner lol. took me 1 1/2 years to accept that it doesn’t make sense anymore but i did it :)
Ironically having a narcissistic parent often leads to avoidant attachment style. Being aware is key, and you can heal with the right steps. I’m just realizing there’s a reason I avoid any possibility of a romantic relationship, because it doesn’t feel safe!
NOT THE RIGHT PEOPLE. Thank you!! Everyone needs support in relationships, so if your partner can't ride with you, they are probably not right for you. Hurt feelings do not trump trauma healing and if you think so maybe you're actually the selfish one...
Avoidant attachment style here. All we want is to not be engulfed, suffocated, guilted, pursued. I found the healthiest thing for me was to date another avoidant attachment style and talk about it slowly over time.
I was not asked about my feelings once growing up. To me it feels like a trick or a con, like they must want that info to manipulate me or take smtg from me I don't want to give. I actually got mad one time when my current partner asked me after sex what my favorite part was one time haha. I was like dude, you do not know me well enough to be asking me that kind of stuff.
lol 🤣
Welp I needed to see this video. I know something is wrong with me because I have a hard time with attachments and maintaining them and staying focused. I feared I was being narcissistic by pushing people away at times or wanting to be alone.
Hmmmm, maybe this explains why my husband has MANY covert narcissistic tendencies but doesn't really fit the narcissist "mold". He's an "Avoidant", which makes sense. It only took me 32 years to figure this out.
If you also look at the male model- that is, how men raise other men to be, it’s very easy to mistake as cold or avoidant. Men seem to have to put behind them their feelings, and in turn many (not all) become narcissistic to get needs met. So ‘’being a man’’ turns off healthy functions in exchange for another healthy function which is getting the difficult stuff done, being the man of the house. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, it’s a very necessary thing, but it’s in how a man integrates both. A well integrated man doesn’t have these issues, but many abused men internalize the abuse (they suffered as a child) as ‘’just a part of life’’, and in turn get frustrated with their significant other when they don’t excuse such behaviors from them. They feel they’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t, and often blame the woman as being ‘bad’, but these guys do not have the insight to see what’s going on inside and why it’s creating problems in their marriage.
Often, a good partner will help point that out, usually repeatedly, and without loss of love for the man. Difficult?…for sure. Fun?, definitely not. I believe it’s the reason why there is so much divorce initiated by women. Most of these men go after a relationship with hot sex in mind as the glue. Avoidants especially do this-use the sex as intimacy, as the relationship. True intimacy is important to build for a solid respectful relationship, but if young men are told that ‘how to be a man’ is simply to ‘not be a girl’ (aka, ‘’don’t be emotional’’ and add in the modern maxim that to ‘be a man’ is to F as many women as they can ), how are these men ever going to understand the shaky foundations they’re creating and ending up destroying their lives and and possibly the lives of others!? They’re frustrated and from what I can observe completely clueless to understand what they’re doing to create it.
@@sonofhibbs4425 I have spent 32 years trying to point things out, trying to communicate with him, trying to understand his needs, trying to help him understand what my needs are. We've been to counseling a few times where he pretends everything is hunky dorey. He either doesn't get it or refuses to get it. This is why I went a long time believing he was a covert narcissist or on the spectrum.
Very well said. There is a lot of overlap, but the difference is in the intention. A lot of people think that they understand people's intentions, but that's impossible!
Now! Only if we can make jobs healthy relationships. Jobs are the only toxic relationships that you're recommended to stand until you can find another one.
THANK YOU. I have struggled trying to understand my avoidant husband for years, and often considered whether or not he was narcissistic or not. I have cone to realise that he is only operating out of the pain and hurt of abuse and emotional neglect as a child. It is a hard road to walk with someone as they try to heal from that sort of trauma, but I made a commitment to him, and I choose to love him unconditionally, so I stay true to the promises I made 20 years ago. He is doing his very best to grow and learn and understand how to meet my needs while he walks his own journey. Can I encourage those of you questioning the validity of their relationship that sometimes pushing through the difficult times can bring a depth and strength to your relationship that you will never find starting over from the beginning.
I am almost certain I’m dealing with avoidant attachment with someone right now because of how abusive my ex was. My ex was so evil to me when he would punish me.
His worst one was putting his hands on me, me defending myself from a 6’6 monster & then him lying to the police 3 hours after the fight that I tried to kill him. He got me put in jail because he knew I would feel too scared to tell the cops he hit me first & I didn’t want my daughter going with CPS. He took away my freedom as an act of revenge for becoming independent (breaking up, going back to school, returning to work) when he didn’t want me to be.
I’m still unable to sleep in the bed we shared 6 months later but my daughter is with me in MY home & that’s all I care about.
Retaliation for becoming independent sounds like a control tactic = narcism trait not avoiding attachment trait.
@@arowace498 I think she’s saying she is the avoidant and it’s triggering the man’s narcissism. But narcissistic abuse is typically how people become avoidant.
That really doesn't sound like avoidant attachment, or at least not that alone. Attachment styles are not disorders, and they're definitely not personality disorders.
@@sonofhibbs4425 ohh ok it makes more sense now. thank you.
I avoid romantic relationships at all costs. I won't abandon myself ever again.
You don't need to abandon yourself to find love or romance. If you find a person that supports your growth and wants to connect with you for who you are it can actually be very rewarding, though you do what's best for you
@@ajregalia1334😌☕️True if that person really exists🤔Times too short to weed through the Narcissistic Mess out there in LaLa Land. Some will lead you on thinking exactly what you described to be their mask till they sucked you in to reveal there true selves💀It should be most relationships are true to each other than they really are🤔It comes down to what your willing to put up with being with a partner, personal or business, it’s work no matter how you look at it unless that True Blessing Presents Themselves, Rare🦋☮️❤️🌟
@@ajregalia1334 that person is a woman and she is married to a narc
@@ajregalia1334 no offense, but this ‘advice’ here in this video DOES guarantee abandonment for those struggling with avoidant attachment styles. He’s saying only the perfect people deserve love. So how is this not very narcissistic towards avoidants!? How are they to believe the maxims you just spilled! (No trying to offend you. Your comment is kind and sweet, but falls flat in the views presented in the video.)
Attachment styles are learned so ping mechanisms, not inherent brain patterns or anything inborn. We can grown and change and repattern ourselves. Bone of us are helpless. @@sonofhibbs4425
I liked a guy with avoidant attachment style, it hurted me badly. I do not recommend to anybody.
Yeah, forget about not being pushed away, you should run from a dismissive avoidant haha. They are just as damaging as a narcissist despite the different label, intent, whatever. Perhaps moreso because you’re made to feel empathy or sorry for them because they’re “not doing it on purpose.” Forget that.
@@MeAnINFP 100% true
No amount of love can overcome the pain and abuse avoidants and narcissists give you
Best explanation I've heard, to go with what I've been trying to express about how the rush to call people "toxic" is toxic, and with all the talk about "red flags", we should also talk about "yellow flags".
Thank you for making this. I have a severely avoidant attachment style and I've been working with a therapist to try and overcome it. I think a big part of everything is also what happens after. If I detach myself from a situation, I try to come back to it and work on what happened. And even before I started therapy, I much preferred avoiding the situation entirely rather than bringing it up to start a new fight, as narcissists tend to do. I'm also someone who doesn't feel big shows of emotion are beneficial. When I broke up with my ex boyfriend for a variety of things (least of which being he was a eugenist), he got extremely upset that I wasn't crying or even angry. I just didn't see the benefit in lashing out. I later talked to my mom and a few friends about it, and they explained that most people view that as not caring in the first place.
Please tell more about avidant people. I feel like I have that kind of personality and don't know how to deal with it
the avoidant is afraid of being hurt while the narcissist wants to hurt.
Man i definitely might be a narcist cause i have a fragile ego if not i just have a lot of the tendencies man i feel like an asshole even more now and i also got distant in my old relationship to dam im messed up in the head
The most important thing is you can do is be aware of it, yourself and your actions, especially if you’re young! You have time to learn about yourself and grow and be better than your old self. Good on ya! You’re way further ahead than a lot of old folks! 🥂 Don’t stop learning! You’ll be ok! 🤘✌️ You got this!
It’s okay, so long as you take accountability and willing to work on yourself to be better, you’re still leagues above a true narcissist. Don’t get stuck in the toxic cycles and work on yourself, you got this!
Honestly being aware of it is what stops it from being a full on personality disorder.
Narcissism is actually a normal human trait that most people with any self interests have degree of. It becomes a very toxic personality disorder when it can't even be engaged. I say you're doing alright that you even acknowledged your thoughts.
We can be assholes and kinda fragile without being full blown narcissist.
Many thanks for breaking this down. I once thought my husb was a narcissist. He's not, he's likes his space and unemotional available at times. He's an introvert who doesn't like attention. ❤❤
I am an introvert and also a genuine INFJ personality type. We need our space to function and thrive. So glad you discovered this as a caring and supportive spouse. Sadly, too many men would be threatened by a female with such traits, and dump them for not conforming to their ideal compliant obedient selfless vision of what a wife or GF should be.
Thank you for that last line. I feel very encouraged by it right now.
This is an absolute gem! My wonderful and talented co-dependency counselor during my separation and ending in my divorce changed my life dramatically and allowed me to experience so much more peace and joy. Thank you. You deserve endless viewership! 💕
Is not how you feel safe, is how you avoid drama in your life.
That last line is the cherry on top of the cake 👌
I’ve been through so much trauma with narcissistic people that I became avoidant. All the things he said rang so true, I wanted to avoid this video. I felt a little tingly, I can’t lie. But, I sat through it and kept an open mind along with the sore heart. There’s a light at the end of this very ugly, slimy, sticky tunnel…😬
I'm so glad I found this; I didn't want to think my husband was narcissistic, and 'avoidant attachment' makes SO much more sense. Even so, I was able to come to terms with it, figure out how to survive and make our last few years together GOOD... and thank God, because we needed each other that last year we had. Thank you for giving me some comfort and closure.