Richard. Thank you for posting your ideas on the cavitation subject. If all you are looking for in a machine is to act as a room heater in the winter, you have a very efficient idea worth copying. The blender motor is pulling on average , say, 8 amps X 120 volts = 960 watts each hour. Clearly that 960 watts is converting to heat in all the electronic components, which require a cooling fan to dissipate the heat into the room. So, there is 960 watts X 3.413 BTU/w = 3017 BTU put into the room/hr. Now, the heat produced in the cavitation process is a bonus. The number of BTU put into the room now is way more. To determine how many, we need to know how many pound s of water is in the blender. Multiply the pounds X delta Temperature X number of minutes to achieve the 200 deg. Those BTU added to the machine heat should keep a small room nice and cozy when there's a blizzard outside. Easily the machine is over unity. Perhaps the temperature increase could be way faster, and even more efficient, by playing with the chopper blade geometry, producing more cavitation, and heat. I've got an old blender laying around that I am looking forward to playing with. I will share any findings with this group. Are you or any of your subscribers interested in collaborating in a open source cavitation machine build off? I am also experimenting with electromagnetic induction. I posted several videos a year or so ago on you tube. See: Charles Bagwell page on youtube: ruclips.net/user/zerwell47 Looking forward to hearing from anyone doing research on Room Heaters. Regards.
And the energy added into the water mass by the mixer blade was accounted for where? The fluctuating amperage levels are what happens when you have cavitation in the water. You have a pressure swing 5 to 10 times a normal pressure and that force is impacting the underside of the impeller blades.
The heat was likely generated by the friction of the gasket(water tight). The bubbles produced from the bottom, at the end of the video, help show that. Also when typical condudtive metals (like wires) are heated, their electrical resistance increase. Thus limitting amperage.
Some times people don't realize, the amount of heat friction produces. Try rubbing a spoon against a carpet fast and hard. Careful it can burn you. It slides very smoothly, yet gets scolding hot. Now consider the speed of a motor, and the friction of a rubber gasket.
I think it's pretty clear that the friction from the drive shaft is the source of the heat. Note that at the end of the video, vapor bubbles continue to form at the friction point on the bottom.
How does power usage to heat this small-batch in a Vitamix, and how long did that take....compared with heating the same amount on an electric stove burner at similar amperage, over what period of time? How to use this to make continual flow of hot water, such as for a radiant heat system? How might this be combined with solar water heating for similar? Are there OTHER fluids which would heat up faster and/or hold heat longer, which could be used?
I understand what you're doing I can do the same thing with my smoothie maker but if you want to get heat a little bit faster try using magnet's on a spinning desk and copper tubing because of the Eddie currents produced between the copper and the magnets the copper tubing will heat up a lot faster hence for pushing water through you got hot water
+sean mc ardle When comparing various heating sources, one must count how many amps are used, over how much time, to more accurately figure what source might be the most economical. Also, this is a "small batch", so either one takes a small sink-bath, or uses it to cook food....but not heat a house or household water supply...unless much larger...which uses more amps for longer time to heat.
was it the friction heat from the blenders motor radiating through to the blades via the shaft. electric motors tend to produce lots of heat waste. it is a intresting subject and i think that it will be solved by inventers and not scientists.
sorry, but if you had real cavitation happening you would have steam in 15 seconds - there's lot's of videos on it. You've probably seen the hydrosonic pumps already. The impeller/knife on your thing is not suitable to cause cavitation. One of my favourites is this one ruclips.net/video/aGbVX7oX5NM/видео.html
Your understanding of Cavitation (as of the making of this video) was completely wrong. Cavitation is the localized vaporization of water... not pulling air bubbles in from elsewhere. It's the microscopic localized water vaporization and subsequent collapse of that vapor pocket that creates the heating. Pulling air bubbles in will actually cool the water off, opposite to what you are trying to do... water-to-air heat exchange is very efficient, which is very undesired here. A submarine propeller creates cavitation, yet there are no bubbles in deep water to "pull-in". It's the cavitation effect that creates the tiny "bubbles", which are not even air bubbles, but are tiny pockets of water vapor... "steam". This occurs due to creating a very low pressure zone around a fast moving object in the water. When the localized water pressure and water temperature drops below the "vapor pressure" of water, it "boils" - or vaporizes. It doesn't turn into "air", it's water vapor... aka "steam". Water vaporizes (boils) at 100°C (212°F) at 1 atm/bar (14.7 psi) pressure. If the water is put into a sealed vessel and the pressure in that vessel is lowered to 0.5 atm, it will vaporize at only 82°C. If the pressure in the vessel is lowered more - down to 0.2 atm, it only requires 61°C to vaporize the water. Once the localized conditions are met for water vaporization, a tiny pocket of vapor appears. This tiny pocket of water vapor tries to expand extremely rapidly by 1700 times... but the water pressure surrounding the vapor pocket tries to prevent it from expanding, which creates much higher temperature in that vapor pocket. I believe it is this super-heated vapor pocket temperature that then splits the water vapor into Hydrogen/Oxygen gases, and the high temperature also auto-ignites those gasses and causes the luminescence (tiny flashes of light) that occurs in water cavitation. The temperature of this tiny explosion has been measured to be between 5,000° and 20,000° K... that's 4,726° to 19,726° F. BTW, You can't just assume a Power Factor of 1.0 for the blender motor, so you can't calculate Power based on just Voltage and Current... you need to use a device that measures true Power, taking PF into account... such as a "KillaWatt" meter.
sounds like you are very educated in cavitation, i know from experience that a outboard motor cavitates when the prop gets introduces to air, and the blender does not start to heat untill the air or oxygen is introduced to it, Thank, you for your insight, i have a more efficient way to cavitate water, if you would like to know more contact me, at jwawning@myfairpoint.net
You can call that "cavitation" if you want, but it's not. The "cavitation bubbles" are not air, they are voids in the water formed by water vapor... aka" "steam", because the vapor pressure point has fallen below the vapor point due to the drastic lowering of pressure at a small point. ruclips.net/video/ON_irzFAU9c/видео.html ruclips.net/video/U-uUYCFDTrc/видео.html
@@beforebefore You are 100% correct, even if he gets true cavitation, which means a different angle or design of the blades as well as a stronger motor, the amount of energy transferred to the water cannot exceed the total input..it's the law of thermodynamics, a simple resistive element turns almost 100% of it's electrical energy into heat and will be much more efficient than this. Heatpumps are pushing COP's of close to 5 but they take heat out of the ambient air to get that extra energy. I use a heatpump to generate 6400 watt of heat energy, but it only consumes 1200 watt at the wall plug.
Richard. Thank you for posting your ideas on the cavitation subject. If all you are looking for in a machine is to act as a room heater in the winter, you have a very efficient idea worth copying. The blender motor is pulling on average , say, 8 amps X 120 volts = 960 watts each hour. Clearly that 960 watts is converting to heat in all the electronic components, which require a cooling fan to dissipate the heat into the room. So, there is 960 watts X 3.413 BTU/w = 3017 BTU put into the room/hr. Now, the heat produced in the cavitation process is a bonus. The number of BTU put into the room now is way more. To determine how many, we need to know how many pound s of water is in the blender. Multiply the pounds X delta Temperature X number of minutes to achieve the 200 deg. Those BTU added to the machine heat should keep a small room nice and cozy when there's a blizzard outside.
Easily the machine is over unity. Perhaps the temperature increase could be way faster, and even more efficient, by playing with the chopper blade geometry, producing more cavitation, and heat. I've got an old blender laying around that I am looking forward to playing with. I will share any findings with this group.
Are you or any of your subscribers interested in collaborating in a open source cavitation machine build off?
I am also experimenting with electromagnetic induction. I posted several videos a year or so ago on you tube.
See: Charles Bagwell page on youtube: ruclips.net/user/zerwell47
Looking forward to hearing from anyone doing research on Room Heaters. Regards.
Experimentul tau e mai important in zilele astea decit oricind
what would the damage be on the impeller of such a pump caused by cavitation and how long would it last?
I am, the new design is done with disks , a fraction of the resistance and more hot water, thanks for the comment, Dick Waters
Richard "Waters" ...I get it now!
And the energy added into the water mass by the mixer blade was accounted for where? The fluctuating amperage levels are what happens when you have cavitation in the water. You have a pressure swing 5 to 10 times a normal pressure and that force is impacting the underside of the impeller blades.
The heat was likely generated by the friction of the gasket(water tight). The bubbles produced from the bottom, at the end of the video, help show that. Also when typical condudtive metals (like wires) are heated, their electrical resistance increase. Thus limitting amperage.
Some times people don't realize, the amount of heat friction produces. Try rubbing a spoon against a carpet fast and hard. Careful it can burn you. It slides very smoothly, yet gets scolding hot. Now consider the speed of a motor, and the friction of a rubber gasket.
Though the gasket may be metal. Metal on metal still heat rapidly.
I think it's pretty clear that the friction from the drive shaft is the source of the heat. Note that at the end of the video, vapor bubbles continue to form at the friction point on the bottom.
How does power usage to heat this small-batch in a Vitamix, and how long did that take....compared with heating the same amount on an electric stove burner at similar amperage, over what period of time?
How to use this to make continual flow of hot water, such as for a radiant heat system?
How might this be combined with solar water heating for similar?
Are there OTHER fluids which would heat up faster and/or hold heat longer, which could be used?
That is the principle of electrodynamic where air can explode at high frequency vortex explode water vapor
This is interesting, how long did it take for the water to reach over 200°F?
Although interesting to revive an old idea a heat pump would be more efficient and could be made out of an old air conditioner or refrigerator.
Wait till you read about Eirex Technology in Canada with advanced cavitation.
I understand what you're doing I can do the same thing with my smoothie maker but if you want to get heat a little bit faster try using magnet's on a spinning desk and copper tubing because of the Eddie currents produced between the copper and the magnets the copper tubing will heat up a lot faster hence for pushing water through you got hot water
Are you just using a food blender to do this ?
Interesting....what was the total time running to get to 200 ?
Hand crank spin can use centrifugal force but if you get electricity why you need alternative.
Very smart move with the blender...but why the emphases on the amps if you dont mind me asking ?...Best of luck by the way!
+sean mc ardle When comparing various heating sources, one must count how many amps are used, over how much time, to more accurately figure what source might be the most economical.
Also, this is a "small batch", so either one takes a small sink-bath, or uses it to cook food....but not heat a house or household water supply...unless much larger...which uses more amps for longer time to heat.
How could water remain water above 100 celcius. Are we talking about farheinheit?
was it the friction heat from the blenders motor radiating through to the blades via the shaft. electric motors tend to produce lots of heat waste. it is a intresting subject and i think that it will be solved by inventers and not scientists.
sorry, but if you had real cavitation happening you would have steam in 15 seconds - there's lot's of videos on it. You've probably seen the hydrosonic pumps already. The impeller/knife on your thing is not suitable to cause cavitation. One of my favourites is this one ruclips.net/video/aGbVX7oX5NM/видео.html
The amp drop and raise because motor emission interference with ac current power supply
Your understanding of Cavitation (as of the making of this video) was completely wrong.
Cavitation is the localized vaporization of water... not pulling air bubbles in from elsewhere. It's the microscopic localized water vaporization and subsequent collapse of that vapor pocket that creates the heating. Pulling air bubbles in will actually cool the water off, opposite to what you are trying to do... water-to-air heat exchange is very efficient, which is very undesired here.
A submarine propeller creates cavitation, yet there are no bubbles in deep water to "pull-in". It's the cavitation effect that creates the tiny "bubbles", which are not even air bubbles, but are tiny pockets of water vapor... "steam". This occurs due to creating a very low pressure zone around a fast moving object in the water. When the localized water pressure and water temperature drops below the "vapor pressure" of water, it "boils" - or vaporizes. It doesn't turn into "air", it's water vapor... aka "steam".
Water vaporizes (boils) at 100°C (212°F) at 1 atm/bar (14.7 psi) pressure. If the water is put into a sealed vessel and the pressure in that vessel is lowered to 0.5 atm, it will vaporize at only 82°C. If the pressure in the vessel is lowered more - down to 0.2 atm, it only requires 61°C to vaporize the water.
Once the localized conditions are met for water vaporization, a tiny pocket of vapor appears. This tiny pocket of water vapor tries to expand extremely rapidly by 1700 times... but the water pressure surrounding the vapor pocket tries to prevent it from expanding, which creates much higher temperature in that vapor pocket. I believe it is this super-heated vapor pocket temperature that then splits the water vapor into Hydrogen/Oxygen gases, and the high temperature also auto-ignites those gasses and causes the luminescence (tiny flashes of light) that occurs in water cavitation. The temperature of this tiny explosion has been measured to be between 5,000° and 20,000° K... that's 4,726° to 19,726° F.
BTW, You can't just assume a Power Factor of 1.0 for the blender motor, so you can't calculate Power based on just Voltage and Current... you need to use a device that measures true Power, taking PF into account... such as a "KillaWatt" meter.
sounds like you are very educated in cavitation, i know from experience that a outboard motor cavitates when the prop gets introduces to air, and the blender does not start to heat untill the air or oxygen is introduced to it, Thank, you for your insight, i have a more efficient way to cavitate water, if you would like to know more contact me, at jwawning@myfairpoint.net
You can call that "cavitation" if you want, but it's not. The "cavitation bubbles" are not air, they are voids in the water formed by water vapor... aka" "steam", because the vapor pressure point has fallen below the vapor point due to the drastic lowering of pressure at a small point.
ruclips.net/video/ON_irzFAU9c/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/U-uUYCFDTrc/видео.html
thanks mr wizard
@@beforebefore You are 100% correct, even if he gets true cavitation, which means a different angle or design of the blades as well as a stronger motor, the amount of energy transferred to the water cannot exceed the total input..it's the law of thermodynamics, a simple resistive element turns almost 100% of it's electrical energy into heat and will be much more efficient than this. Heatpumps are pushing COP's of close to 5 but they take heat out of the ambient air to get that extra energy. I use a heatpump to generate 6400 watt of heat energy, but it only consumes 1200 watt at the wall plug.
You find water cavitation annoying? "pet peeve" noun: pet peeve; plural noun: pet peevessomething that a particular person finds especially annoying.