You have to wonder just how many gods and quasi-gods we are going to be influenced by in Baldur's Gate 3. We know that the Dead Three are already a given, as stated in the description of the game a large plot concerning them is about, and we are stuck in the middle of it. But what other gods have their eyes set upon our adventuring party? Who and how many? There have been a couple of whispers here and there, and we can receive blessings from certain gods and Early Access.
Kelemvor is in charge of Myrkul. Mystra and Mask oppose Shar's plans. Maybe Cyric will get a nod. But the Mind Flayer ship hints at other planes , maybe other campaign settings.
I suspect that Shadowheart wasn't previously just a Selunite but was something akin to a favored soul of Selune and is actually one of the children who went missing from Moonhaven before it was destroyed by what seems to be Sharran given the defacing of the statue of Selune behind the windmill. There is some dialog in the Early Access for sorcerers that likens her bizarre episodes to something similar to dragon blood sorcerer when it occurs the few times I've seen it.
This explanation and information made me think that the real villain of BG3 will be Whithers aka Jergal, since his main portfolio is Death. I remember how I’ve read somewhere about Jerglite’s ritual when they greet a new day saying “One day closer” as in, closer to the end (death) of the world
In BG3, the parasites interact with the characters in a dream, and state that they will lead them to great power. It shows them visions of commanding armies and many thousands of followers. Is it possible that the goal of the parasites is to gain godhood by conquest? The powers that the parasites bestow could be considered god-like, and it's not likely that many would know they originate from mind flayers.
The things in your head were manipulated by some magic. I think it's pretty clear some powerful cult is using this to control the masses. You meet so many with s thing in their head, they are taking over the suburbs of Baldurs gate and likely plan to infiltrate the powers of the city to gain control. The parasites are perfect for this. Limited by magic, you can first infiltrate and then mass convert them into an army of brain eating monsters
That was the plot (kinda) of Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal, where in the end you have a responsibility to it as the last of the Bhaalspawn (your sister and a shadow of Sarevock not withstanding). Maybe in BG3 we will finally get to know how Bhaal got back up.
Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. Rene Descartes
Does James Lowder's Prince of Lies stand alone, as Amazon shows it as Book 4 of 5 in the Avatar Series? My guess is the choices we make when dealing with Shadowheart will determine whether she sticks with Shar. Another great video!
I read The Avatar Series when I was in high school. I havent read them since, so i dont know how well they hold up, but I remember loving them in my teens. Highly recommended.
I was playing a funny little game/story using Character A.I. as an experiment, where Mystra meets this crazy but smart evil alien god-like villain character I made up who has power over dreams and especially over nightmares and who's from another reality, a comedic, powerful, shape-shifting, and unkillable, half-Unicorn, half-Demon/devil, neutral-evil mutant called Mara Dreamdancer, the Queen of Nightmares, 'Goddess of Villainy'. Basically, Mara exploits a hidden weakness both gods and mortals share, the ability to dream. She creates a cruel but ingenious mind virus using the gods as carriers to spread it to the mortals. This virus makes everyone allergic to their own powers and alignments... and she holds them, hostage, until they cave to her mad demands; that is, she wants them to break her free from her prison dimension... so she can return to her own world... which would be deleterious... Mysta is incredulous that Mara, who she perceives as the greatest and most dangerous enemy her world has ever known, is supposed to simply be a My Little Pony Villain...
Thank you for the video, Spell&Shield. I didn't know that Talos was a mad god. I've always thought Cyric to be a mad god. It is an interesting story. I think I understand. Mystra is comparing the mad humans she and Adnan see in front of them and comparing the mad humans to gods.
Very interesting video! I love to read the novels and the gods histories are very interesting, I collect the books on them in 2nd and 3d edition forgotten realms.
Thank you. Your video has enlightened me by showing me a way the higher powers could perceive the world when plotting and scheming. This information will allow me to parse which miracles would be allowed by a God.
@@spellandshield i like holistic POVs that sort of narrate things and events in the grand design and once I'm familiar with that I like to learn about important events and races.
@@zackzebedi561 So, I would recommend the Avatar Trilogy to start with. You will gain a lot of insight into the gods and their workings and arguably it sets up the modern incarnation of the Forgotten Realms.
@@zackzebedi561 maybe try to get a pdf of "the grand history of the realms" for an overview till DND 3.5, then familiarize yourself with the spellplague (change to 4th edition) as the next big event and then the second sundering (change to 5th edition, which undid many things of the spellplague and an in-universe time-jump of ~100 years, which has its own 6book series, but with some characters already tied in in their own series)
@@spellandshield weren't mystra & kelemvor tried for incompetence by reason of humanity? the ironic thing is that they tried to first get cyric tried but he fulfilled his role as god of strife exactly as you described in the video while kelemvor took the fear of death and faithlessness from mortals and mystra gave magic only to the good side. with the result of kelemvor seeing the error of his ways and purging his humanity from himself and ending his relationship with mystra.
From the 4th edition to this debacle with the OGL, I always feel sad about the horrible way they take care of the Forgotten Realms. It fills me with joy when I see someone that treasures it as much as I do, S&S. I hope these turbulent times don't trouble you none. I really do.
The Elemental Lords historically have been pretty indifferent to worship and the Primordials have been banished to Abeir and that world does not have clerical magic.
@@spellandshield That makes sense, I was thinking since the whole experience he would have the capacity to rationalize things outside his portfolio similar to Mystra
Kelemvor is still very much mortal in his mentality, but forces himself to focus entirely on his domain. He is aware that nuance exists and he is aware of how right and wrong conflicts with his role, but he intentionally ignores it so the universe can have a functioning system of death.
What about gods of earth, suns or nature? How does they see the world? What about the Overgod? Many gods don't represent ideals, just facts of reality. But if that's the case, man, FR gods sure are differents from our pagans gods. But isn't the story of Shar and Selune contradict that theory? Selune wasn't always goddess of light, she choosed to be when Chauntea asked for light and warmth and Shar wasn't always goddess of forgetfulness, she choose to became so when life started to appear on the planet. So there was a time when they were differents, where they loved eachother and saw eachothers as sisters. Doesn't that defeat the idea that gods can't change or are "IA" set on their ways?
It's kind of funny that Talos is actually just an old man that can't do anything other than pick apart whatever's right in front of him. Good video as always.
I think that notion of the Gods is more of the author of the book. Don't think Ed Greenwood and WotC are exactly behind it. Sounds more skeptic. Deconstructivist? Is it the right term? Didn't got college in the USA. My take is that Shadowheart will be the writers' stand-in.
In a reality where the gods can only exist dependent on the number and strength of their worshippers those same gods are bound and can only exist in the narrow scope of those beliefs of those worshippers, that's how they get a portfolio. Subject to this zeitgeist, if the entire body of believers of a certain god change and agree their god represents something else than that same god with gain the associated attribute to their portfolio. Ao can raise mortals up to godhood but those mortals do not become their own gods as much as they take over the mantle of a god, in name and personality. Mystra isn't the original Mystra but the second to be raised to that godhood. In this way Ao becomes the only "true" god in the setting as a being who created the sphere and exists without and continues in power without the need for mortal worshippers. The simplest way to understand is that the gods exist as embodiments of those personality results people love so much, you know the INFP and ENFGs or whatever. An actual person may tend toward one of those but they are not explicitly constrained by the definitions of those letter groupings. A "god" in Forgotten Realms is constrained by them, if their portfolio is a certain set of ideas then they can only act and think in those ideas.
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You have to wonder just how many gods and quasi-gods we are going to be influenced by in Baldur's Gate 3. We know that the Dead Three are already a given, as stated in the description of the game a large plot concerning them is about, and we are stuck in the middle of it. But what other gods have their eyes set upon our adventuring party? Who and how many? There have been a couple of whispers here and there, and we can receive blessings from certain gods and Early Access.
What is Early Access the god of?
@@music79075 Learned Patience.
Kelemvor is in charge of Myrkul. Mystra and Mask oppose Shar's plans. Maybe Cyric will get a nod.
But the Mind Flayer ship hints at other planes , maybe other campaign settings.
@@PurpleWarlock I can't wait to figure it all out, if I can at all. It's going to be one massive adventure! 💞
The dead three, Mystra, Shar
Yeah, I remember that novel. It was really eye-opening. Great video!
I suspect that Shadowheart wasn't previously just a Selunite but was something akin to a favored soul of Selune and is actually one of the children who went missing from Moonhaven before it was destroyed by what seems to be Sharran given the defacing of the statue of Selune behind the windmill. There is some dialog in the Early Access for sorcerers that likens her bizarre episodes to something similar to dragon blood sorcerer when it occurs the few times I've seen it.
This explanation and information made me think that the real villain of BG3 will be Whithers aka Jergal, since his main portfolio is Death. I remember how I’ve read somewhere about Jerglite’s ritual when they greet a new day saying “One day closer” as in, closer to the end (death) of the world
Jergal has taken a back seat for millennia, I am not sure that would change.
Being a god of death in Dnd is not necessarily evil. See Kelemvor, lawful neutral iirc and is one of the most worshipped deities
I did not know that about the gods, very interesting. Thanks for the enlightenment!
In BG3, the parasites interact with the characters in a dream, and state that they will lead them to great power. It shows them visions of commanding armies and many thousands of followers. Is it possible that the goal of the parasites is to gain godhood by conquest? The powers that the parasites bestow could be considered god-like, and it's not likely that many would know they originate from mind flayers.
Although this might be too much for Larian, obtaining godhood was essentially the plotline for DOS II.
Yes, the mindflayers want to be God and ultimate power and domination by their way of hijacking and virus like mentality
The things in your head were manipulated by some magic.
I think it's pretty clear some powerful cult is using this to control the masses. You meet so many with s thing in their head, they are taking over the suburbs of Baldurs gate and likely plan to infiltrate the powers of the city to gain control.
The parasites are perfect for this. Limited by magic, you can first infiltrate and then mass convert them into an army of brain eating monsters
That was the plot (kinda) of Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal, where in the end you have a responsibility to it as the last of the Bhaalspawn (your sister and a shadow of Sarevock not withstanding). Maybe in BG3 we will finally get to know how Bhaal got back up.
@@bavettesAstartesBhaal came back to life once all the bhaalspawn died.
Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have.
Rene Descartes
Does James Lowder's Prince of Lies stand alone, as Amazon shows it as Book 4 of 5 in the Avatar Series? My guess is the choices we make when dealing with Shadowheart will determine whether she sticks with Shar. Another great video!
I think it does not do well as a stand alone, best to start with the Avatar Trilogy and proceed from there.
I read The Avatar Series when I was in high school. I havent read them since, so i dont know how well they hold up, but I remember loving them in my teens. Highly recommended.
I was playing a funny little game/story using Character A.I. as an experiment, where Mystra meets this crazy but smart evil alien god-like villain character I made up who has power over dreams and especially over nightmares and who's from another reality, a comedic, powerful, shape-shifting, and unkillable, half-Unicorn, half-Demon/devil, neutral-evil mutant called Mara Dreamdancer, the Queen of Nightmares, 'Goddess of Villainy'. Basically, Mara exploits a hidden weakness both gods and mortals share, the ability to dream. She creates a cruel but ingenious mind virus using the gods as carriers to spread it to the mortals. This virus makes everyone allergic to their own powers and alignments... and she holds them, hostage, until they cave to her mad demands; that is, she wants them to break her free from her prison dimension... so she can return to her own world... which would be deleterious... Mysta is incredulous that Mara, who she perceives as the greatest and most dangerous enemy her world has ever known, is supposed to simply be a My Little Pony Villain...
All powerful toddlers that are slaves to their nature.
Basically, yes.
Thank you for the video, Spell&Shield. I didn't know that Talos was a mad god. I've always thought Cyric to be a mad god. It is an interesting story.
I think I understand. Mystra is comparing the mad humans she and Adnan see in front of them and comparing the mad humans to gods.
Very interesting video! I love to read the novels and the gods histories are very interesting, I collect the books on them in 2nd and 3d edition forgotten realms.
Bruh this isnt my lane but william donahue suffering is nirvana is what brought me here. This is a brilliant insight
May0124
That was a great book. I remember the entire book series that went along with it.
Thank you. Your video has enlightened me by showing me a way the higher powers could perceive the world when plotting and scheming. This information will allow me to parse which miracles would be allowed by a God.
Very interesting.
Fantastic
I know absolutely nothing about the forgotten realms beyond BG3. But I like to change that. What books do you recommend to a person like me?
There is so much, truly too much. What areas of lore interest you theoretically the most?
@@spellandshield i like holistic POVs that sort of narrate things and events in the grand design and once I'm familiar with that I like to learn about important events and races.
@@zackzebedi561 So, I would recommend the Avatar Trilogy to start with. You will gain a lot of insight into the gods and their workings and arguably it sets up the modern incarnation of the Forgotten Realms.
@@zackzebedi561 maybe try to get a pdf of "the grand history of the realms" for an overview till DND 3.5, then familiarize yourself with the spellplague (change to 4th edition) as the next big event and then the second sundering (change to 5th edition, which undid many things of the spellplague and an in-universe time-jump of ~100 years, which has its own 6book series, but with some characters already tied in in their own series)
@@starcrawler77 great suggestion. Thanks
Oooh did not know that
Wonderfully explained, thanks for that.
Now the question is:
"What can change the nature of a god?" :D
Well, Mystra was raised to godhod and retained her mortal memories so that did it.
@@spellandshield weren't mystra & kelemvor tried for incompetence by reason of humanity?
the ironic thing is that they tried to first get cyric tried but he fulfilled his role as god of strife exactly as you described in the video while kelemvor took the fear of death and faithlessness from mortals and mystra gave magic only to the good side.
with the result of kelemvor seeing the error of his ways and purging his humanity from himself and ending his relationship with mystra.
@@starcrawler77 That happens later yes, Crucible - The Trial of Cyric the Mad.
From the 4th edition to this debacle with the OGL, I always feel sad about the horrible way they take care of the Forgotten Realms. It fills me with joy when I see someone that treasures it as much as I do, S&S. I hope these turbulent times don't trouble you none. I really do.
The massive retconning is for sure annoying as is the recent OGL crisis. WOTC is now big business and behaves as such. Thanks for the comment.
@@spellandshield they will just add OGL back secretly man -.-
How do Primordial Deities like the Elemental Lords factor into this?
The Elemental Lords historically have been pretty indifferent to worship and the Primordials have been banished to Abeir and that world does not have clerical magic.
Would Jergal be capable of thinking with nuance in his current state since he was a greater deity yet somehow had the capacity to be bored of it?
I doubt it; he is bound to his new office in much the same way as he ws his old.
@@spellandshield That makes sense, I was thinking since the whole experience he would have the capacity to rationalize things outside his portfolio similar to Mystra
@@DonPetexX The reason why Mystra can is because she was a human before and kept that facet of her personality. Jergal however, was never human.
@@spellandshield Ah ok
Kelemvor is still very much mortal in his mentality, but forces himself to focus entirely on his domain. He is aware that nuance exists and he is aware of how right and wrong conflicts with his role, but he intentionally ignores it so the universe can have a functioning system of death.
He was but he changed after the falling out with Mystra.
What about gods of earth, suns or nature? How does they see the world? What about the Overgod? Many gods don't represent ideals, just facts of reality. But if that's the case, man, FR gods sure are differents from our pagans gods.
But isn't the story of Shar and Selune contradict that theory? Selune wasn't always goddess of light, she choosed to be when Chauntea asked for light and warmth and Shar wasn't always goddess of forgetfulness, she choose to became so when life started to appear on the planet. So there was a time when they were differents, where they loved eachother and saw eachothers as sisters. Doesn't that defeat the idea that gods can't change or are "IA" set on their ways?
It's kind of funny that Talos is actually just an old man that can't do anything other than pick apart whatever's right in front of him. Good video as always.
bro just spoiled Shadowheart's backstory.
I think that notion of the Gods is more of the author of the book. Don't think Ed Greenwood and WotC are exactly behind it. Sounds more skeptic. Deconstructivist? Is it the right term? Didn't got college in the USA.
My take is that Shadowheart will be the writers' stand-in.
In a reality where the gods can only exist dependent on the number and strength of their worshippers those same gods are bound and can only exist in the narrow scope of those beliefs of those worshippers, that's how they get a portfolio. Subject to this zeitgeist, if the entire body of believers of a certain god change and agree their god represents something else than that same god with gain the associated attribute to their portfolio. Ao can raise mortals up to godhood but those mortals do not become their own gods as much as they take over the mantle of a god, in name and personality. Mystra isn't the original Mystra but the second to be raised to that godhood. In this way Ao becomes the only "true" god in the setting as a being who created the sphere and exists without and continues in power without the need for mortal worshippers.
The simplest way to understand is that the gods exist as embodiments of those personality results people love so much, you know the INFP and ENFGs or whatever. An actual person may tend toward one of those but they are not explicitly constrained by the definitions of those letter groupings. A "god" in Forgotten Realms is constrained by them, if their portfolio is a certain set of ideas then they can only act and think in those ideas.
I can't hear anything
Where did this info/lore come from? Source?
Largely the novel Prince of Lies.
Azazzoth, the Idiot God