When it comes to music production, the truth is that if you're on an M1 Pro chip and haven't had any issues completing your productions, there is absolutely no reason to upgrade.
instead of using demo session with all the stock plugins, can you do a more real world test? maybe test one of your mix/pruduction sessions with high CPU consumption plugins, and compare with the old M1 Max?
Yes will do a follow up with more testing and comparison. I think many who upgrade will be coming from intel or M1. the reason I used the demo session for these tests is to make sure everyone can test their own computers with the same project making the results comparable
Yeah exactly this, often DAW's use a single core for one signal path, which means that if you have a single track with a lot of cpu-heavy plugins, that will be the bottleneck. Therefore I'm wondering how many cpu-heavy plugins (for example Acustica Audio plugins, Izotope Ozone or plugins with oversampling enabled) it can handle on a single track.
Actually, I think a demo test with one of the demo songs in Logic is perfect. Everyone (who uses Logic Pro) will have that exact song along with all the stock Logic Plugins that are used in that song. A test with third party plugins is also good, but not everyone will have those exact same plugins so the results might not mean much to those not having those plugins. I think this test was a perfect way to show off the power of the M4 compared to M1Max. And anyone using Logic can perform the exact same test on their computer.
@@Dubfire69 Yes, exactly what I´m thinking as well. Would be great if there be a test about single core performance, bec this is still a big bottleneck on my 10Core M1 Max. I really hope for big single core improvement bec this is what breaks my CPU in mastering all the time. Think of bus routings, CPU hungry mastering plugins, linear phase and oversampling. Especially Logic s audio engine does pretty bad on equal core distribution. Most of the time one ore two performance cores are peaking til system overload, while the rest of the available core are almost sleeping. That's why I interested the most the single core performance of the new M4 Max compared to the M1 Max. The first Geekbench tests are looking pretty promising. Would appreciate a lot ! @imamusicmogul
This is the exact video I need now as I'm on Intel MacBook for ages and am thinking about upgrading to the new one for using logic pro. If it's a seeding video, Apple's PR team you are picking the very right guy for this.
I like my MBP M1 Max 32GB 4TB storage and the difference isn't enough to make me want to upgrade. Plus I bought my MBP M1 Max refurbished so I saved quite a bit and a similar config of a M4 Pro or Max would be very expensive new.
Agree! We have 2021 M1 Max’s with 64GB ram and they handle everything from audio and video amazingly still! These speeds tests don’t justify an upgrade IMO.
100% - Especially when it's stuff like "the plugin loads faster" - The feel and format is about the same so not enough to justify a 2k investment taking for granted you sell the other one... Cheers.
I think there's still some confusion around the M series chips. About the memory bandwidth: If you don't have enough processor cores to saturate it, it is wasted. The reason the Max chip has more bandwidth is it has double the graphics cores. (CPU and GPU shares RAM and therefore memory bandwidth). Apple designed the memory bandwidth to fit the number of CPU and GPU cores, it's not a spec you should worry about. Second, the M4 is a huge upgrade to M1. For one thing single core performance is close to double, and single core performance is vital for audio work: A single plugin thread runs in a single core. It's the session as a whole that is distributed across cores. Then, for multi core performance, they have added two performance cores in the Pro chip compared to M1, meaning multi core performance is even more impressive. So while this might be the first Apple Silicon generation to actually warrant an upgrade for M1 owners, it will be a huge upgrade for those who do. (I soon will myself).
The reason why bandwidth isn't the same for the different Max (and other tiers off course) has, as you say, to do with the amount of GPU core clusters. But more specifically it has to do with the memory controllers that are associated with each core cluster. For instance, on the old M1 Max each cluster had 8 GPU cores and one 128bit wide memory controller for each that also has to share resources with the CPU. So when they disable one or more cores, or a memory controller due to where the chip defect happens to be, the result is always lower bandwidth. And they won't be able to use all four memory chips (since there will be no way to connect the last one if the chip is defective). And further, if there are two defects in different memory controllers the entire chip needs to be scrapped. On the M4 Pro and Max the increase in bandwidth comes from faster LPDDR5 and not any inherent differences in bit width on chip. And this metric is actually very, very important for some workloads like inference where the entire GPU is easily saturated. In fact, inference scales almost linearly with bandwidth depending on the model size.
@@fVNzO Awesome. I am wanting to upgrade, I do comfyui stuff and am interested in learning how to train. But I'm not sure 32GB Ram is going to cut it to host LLMs or train. I was thinking about building a 4 GPU (3090s) or 4 M4 Mac Minis to do this once I felt confident enough. Do you think M$ wiht 32 GB Ram can do these things or is in necessary to get 128 GB Ram? Also, do you sound engineer?
@@nicktumi Basically on 16GB of VRAM you can get some very decent models going especially for coding in the 20-30B range. The next step up is 48GB (2x24) for 70+B. And then it goes up from there. But there's no reason to spend a lot if you don't have experience first. Get a cheap 16GB GPU or use the one you already have that hopefully has 16 and first learn what to do. If you then find that you're interested and want more performance go from there.
@ old enough to not make baseless comments dawg. Feel free to fact check me on this. Update: deleted my prior comment, to avoid drama in Adam’s comment section. However, you saw what I wrote, please DYOR.
@imamusicmogul responded this to another question: If you use more sample based instruments go with the higher unified memory option. If you use more synths and lots of fx plugins go with the better cpu plus the better cpu gives you more gpu cores as well for video work if that something you do The question was: Due to budget, would you rather go for 12 core pro wirh 48gb ram or the 14 core pro with 24gh ram? But with cubase.
Hi can you please tell me how well the m4 max or pro manage with plugins in a loce setting. Is there latency or could I mix my band's 8x stems live set (4 plugs per stem) with ableton or logic plugs and a soundcard , not needing a mixing desk. And what would be best best bang fot buck here
If you use more sample based instruments go with the higher unified memory option. If you use more synths and lots of fx plugins go with the better cpu plus the better cpu gives you more gpu cores as well for video work if that something you do
Ok, so I recently ran into an issue in logic. I'm not sure if its M1 issue. I would like you to try this. Do some parallel and side chain compression (kick, snare, toms) onto everything but vocals, then side chain compress vocals onto everything else. Let me know if you have any latency issues on your bussed tracks. I bus my vocal tracks to an FX bus and a separate one for echos to ensure CPU is not getting bogged down and to keep consistency in vocal sound. ISSUE: I get 1 sec latency to my echo bus (also buses to VoxFX bus) when I started implementing side chain compression. I've heard that this is either CPU or Logic specific issue. I also heard Ableton also has this issue, but not Protools. So, if its a Logic issue, this would be a huge problem for the industry, since parallel and side chain compression really make a difference in mastering IMO.
I’m wondering if upgrading ram from 24 to 48 is more worthwhile or cpu from 12 to 14 for the logic pro performance (if i can only upgrade one). Thanks for your video !
I would upgrade the CPU first for music production. Then ram then ssd. Sample based plugins usually take up more ram but synths and fx plugins typically rely on the cpu. Plus you got memory swap when you need more ram. the MacBook will use some of your ssd space temporally to support the load. I believe it’s up to a max of 64gb but I have to double check that. May be less or more but I’m pretty sure there’s a soft cap on it
True nano texture reviews will come after 6 months of use. Matte finish is nice at first because it’s different but after a longer period of time you start to understand what you prefer more… visual quality or reduction of glare. . I’ve used several matte displays, can’t go back to them.
You're confusing two different things. This is not a matte display, it's some liquid shit or wtv(I forgot) different Apple did inside the display, same as the latest Samsung flagship phones. These DONT reduce the contrast while also reducing the glare at the same time.
@@sa1f43 They do reduce the contrast... have you seen one in person? I understand the technology behind it, but everything has pros and cons. I happen to not like matte finish displays, but many people do.
But how is latency while recording with many 3rd party plugins? I like recording into my mix template but doing it all in low latency mode kills the vibe
Is this Mac worth it for beginner producers? My daughter is very into music and uses her IPad as of now. I don’t understand as much as she does but this video was insightful, thanks.
I would say it's overkill for a young beginner. My old M1 Max still handles very large projects in Ableton Live no problem at all. I never see beyond 40% CPU.
Great content as always...I was waiting for your video to be honest...One question...Should I go for 24 or 48 GB of RAM? I usually have 30 to 40 tracks in my projects...Thanks in advance
I would say 24GB should be enough. Especially with the unified memory is faster on M4 than previous M series silicon. Plus the computer memory bandwidth is so fast you shouldn’t even notice a glitch if your computer taps into the shared memory. I do wish we had more options for unified memory on the pro tho.
In my 2 weeks of using the M4 Pro the fans have not turned on, even during these tests I did for the video. From my 3 years using the M1 Max - when the fans did turn on they were still super quiet
not at all really. So far the fans on the M4 Pro did not turn on. But from my 3 years using the M1 Max, the times the fan did turn on, it was still super quiet. I'd still track audio with the fans on because it's so quiet
How is the MIDI clock sync out from the DAW into hardware? The M1 Pro has amazing sync, with extremely low amounts of jitter, but I'm not sure that is the case for all the subsequent models.
It is easy to clean. The documentation included in the box actually explains the cleaning process. It says when cleaning the display you should only use the included polishing cloth and if there hard smudges you can use a 70% isopropyl alcohol solution. But not to spray the screen directly. I’m guessing they added that because the screen is a little more sensitive than the standard one but I wouldn’t be worried about that too much.
This looks so nice. Do you think is worth upgrading from a M3 Pro Macbook? 2 months ago, I bought one with 12 core CPU (6P + 6E), but its crazy that now they give you 10P cores.
The more performance cores the better for music production but if you’re happy with what you have now and it’s getting the job done without you feeling frustrated I would say stay with the M3 Pro for now
Awesome video! I am still using a max spec’d 2014 MBP. She’s been so good to me, and I am usually using hardware synths/gear and UAD-2 plugins. But now with all these new powerful in the box tools, I think it’s time to put her to rest. M4 here I come🎉. Btw, what song did you use for the outro music? I really like it 😂.
m3 max here - over 3000 tracks of that same project, at 75% cpu with room for a lot more. What are your audio settings? Try setting your processing threads to the highest number of cores you have and 1024 buffer size. I'm just curious
In my video I should have mentioned that I ran the tests at 128 buffer size as I wanted to really push the CPU’s. Should have done another test at 1024 and record the difference. I will include that in a follow up video
@@imamusicmogul Again, what is the RTL for tracking multi-channel (20+)? That's where I want to live and it seems most reviews rate this from a higher sample-rate mixing angle.
Thanks, that sounds great. So i think its Time to Upgrade it my MacBook Air with M1 (2020) :-) do you think then the MacBook Pro M4 Pro its enough. We don't need the M4 Max? I'm a Drummer and use it for my Recordings, Logic Pro and Final Cut Pro.
thanks for the video. informative and valuble. do you recommend to upgrade to *Sequoia*? for music production? Waves Plugins, Soudntoys, Izotope, Arturia...
Can you check to see what the latency is with the internal sound card is in the settings? I believe the M3 was 6.4ms with just the Apple hardware and no interface. Should be lower with the higher CPU clock speed.
been stuck with a macbook pro 11 for the last decade, i think it’s time for an upgrade 😭 just wasn’t sure if getting m4 pro makes more of a difference than the m4 itself
Yes. It is quite dull. This is coming from an intel iMac with the nano textured screen. It's a lovely screen but it is a lot duller. The glossy screen does a reasonable job however of managing reflections all that said. Our studio is quite bright and the mac studio display is very competent in this room. The nano textured glass reduces the glare even more but I would say the standard screen is remarkably adept at doing the same thing. I was expecting a lot worse when we upgraded to the Mac Studio with the regular screen.
I would say the nano texture display doesn’t quite have the same boldness or pop of color the standard screen has. Anytime you go matte that is the trade off your making. I would recommend going into the Apple Store and see the two screens side by side before you buy. I used to not want nano texture but now that I tried it. I love it. Like I mentioned in the video it seems softer to look at and I think that’s because you don’t see reflections or all the fingerprints on the screen.
@@martindot7720 It can't get glossy. The technology is really quite radically different. It's not like a slab of polished glass. And you can't just polish matte into glossy. Your decision should only be about whether or not you need it (i.e. standard glass might be just fine like I said we were shocked at how reasonable it was regarding reflections). And second point is you have to go into the store and see them side by side. That should be your number 1 priority really. It is quite dull. Not in general just when compared to the standard glass option. You have to see this there is no other way. I think the nano screen is a little less bright too at full brightness. Apple might quote the same figure but to me it looked less bright in direct side-by-side.
Thanks for the great videos! Any suggestions on which Mac Mini M4 to choose for Pro Tools, recording / production, mixing vocals? I’m trying to leave as many processing plugins active in my session as I can and get away from having to freeze and commit everything. I don’t leave a ton of VSTs active but maybe a few. Really just high track count, lots of auto tune, melodyne, bus processing. Am I after more RAM or more more cores? Would the base M4 Pro be good enough or do you think I’d need to even upgrade that? Coming from intel. Thanks!
Would it make sense to take advantage of the higher band width which the thunderbolt 5 ports offer and just go for a 256gb model and use an external hard drive for libraries and instruments ?
I’d say it’s not worth it. Thunderbolt 5 is only available on the M4 Pro and Max. the base M4 Pro comes with 512GB stock and $400 to upgrade to 2 TB. The OWC 2TB Thunderbolt 5 ssd is $400 so I’d say it’s better to go with the internal drive for the same price
Thank you for such contents...Can you please do a video on what logic pro audio settings to use for the best performance like core counts,cause my logic pro keeps on quiting unexpectedly very often,even though the cpu meter is barely above 25% ...Thank you.
I own a MacBook M2 Pro, 12 Core (8 Performance, 4 Efficiency Cores) 32 Gb Ram. It runs very good. Should I update to an M4 pro? I am working with logic, recording music, using plenty of plug ins. But I just bought the Mac not very long time ago. So I am not sure, just thinking about a long term decision. but every year there is a new MacBook, so what to do? Greetings from Germany
It's the first time since the start of the M series, I am considering an upgrade. At the same time my M1 still does all I need it to do, and then some. That's way I am holding off the upgrade for now.
Is this the 14 or 16? I am currently using 2018 intel macbook pro and it feels sluggish and gets very hot on my lap. I prefer the 14 inch, but I am worried if the bigger cooling system on the 16 would be more practical on the long run. Hope someone can help
HOw is the recommendation on m4 Pro vs m4 Max and vs Mac studio M2 vs Imac m4 ? Basically ; what Mac do you recommend for music production over all? Apreciate the work, have a great day
If you are doing graphic work like video editing then I prefer the Max chipsets if not the go with one of the M4 chips depending on your budget. M4 is a beast for most things other than heavy graphic work.
I am quite curious about tracking performance, round-trip-latency for multi-channel - 20+ tracks at 24-bit/48K. I understand single core performance is improved but does the lower memory bandwidth impact this. What is the real difference between base M1 and M4 Pro/Max. I am steering toward the Mini side if I make the move to silicon. Again, Tracking vs. mixing.
It shouldn’t impact it as audio is less intensive than video. And these are video powerhouse which can edit approx 20 streams of 4k or several streams of 8k so I would say you should be good tracking 10 tracks of audio with no issues at all. Just make sure to get the most performance core you can get for your budget
Any reason that people wouldnt recommend Macbook Pro as a mac mini replacement? i realize you pay extra for portability and less ports, but are there other downsides?
Hello, thanks for the great video. Would you say RAM matters for music production? I want to get the same Mac as in the video, but I'm doubting between 24 gb of ram and 48 gb of ram.
I believe that most producers with an M1 Mac or higher don't NEED to upgrade. Those machines can already handle almost anything you throw at them. You only need to upgrade if you run into limitations. Having 'a little snappier experience' for over 3000 dollars seems like GAS. But if course, to each their own.
I would disagree if you own a M1 based even with 16gb RAM, I cant even make a full aong with 10 tracks on some of the sythn I use. If you own an M1 Max it's a different story; there is no real emergency to upgrade.
Thanks for posting this...I was wondering how good the new M4s are with music production. Question for you: Do you think the 24GB Ram configuration is enough? Why did you go with 48GB? Also, how much SSD did you get? Did you stick with 1TB or go higher, and why? Thanks.
I tend to agree that 24gb is plenty good. Went to the Apple Store to check out the new M4 MacBook Pro before buying. The binned version 12-core (with only 8 performance cores), 24gb ram, comfortably running the Montero Logic project with Spatial Audio….hope you’re sitting down…..1120 tracks, no issues, didn’t even hit the 70% or use all the cores.
That’s a good result. I’m impressed it was able to pump out that many tracks on 24 gb of unified memory. I usually like a minimum of 32Gb but the way Apple handles memory is very efficient. And I think that test you ran yourself answers the questions 24 GB should be enough
I usually go with at least 1 TB. But 2 TB is is my new go to. 48GB is the max memory you can get on MacBook Pro M4 Pro. The Mini M4 Pro can go 64GB for some reason.
Good Review! I'm still rocking my MacBook Pro 14" M1 Pro with 10-Core CPU 32GB of RAM and 1TB Storage for Music Production. This Machine runs like on Day 1. Definitely will wait another 1-2 Years before upgrading.
@@trebleboost7 For the case that the question was torwarded me: I dont usually record audio. I'm producing electronic music and use a lot of synths and instrument libraries. Thats why I got the 10-Core CPU Version back in the day. The 32GB of RAM also comes in handy for those libraries as my projects get up to 15GB in memory. My project sample rate is always 48000 and usually have set a buffer size around 128. But the cpu could also handle 64. My projects contain something between 20 and 100 Tracks, depending on what I do. The M1 Pro has no problems with it. And I use Ableton btw.
Thank you for this vid!!! So helpful 😊 Curious to know how long the battery will last on average when working on projects? (Assuming the bigger the project the less it will last ofc)
Which one has louder speakers ? 16" m1 or 16" m4? Speakers feel a bit weak on my M1, I can hardly hear some videos turned all the way to max :'( - especially with the fan or heat pump going which is right outside my room.
That’s actually something I did not test. I will test that in a follow up video. My M1 Max speakers are really loud so i would Imagine the new one have the same speakers
Very interested in the transfer of plug ins from Intel to M silicon and how that goes…..I know a minefield and probably done before BUT I’ve waited for the M4 till I do it…
Thats the config I am thinking of going for from a 14" MBP with M1 Pro 32 GB / 4 TB. Main reason - to be able to mess around with bigger local LLMs (it seems however that 64 GB is recommended minimum more or less so it sucks that Apple does not offer M4 Pro config as in Mac Mini), better gaming (would play Cyberpunk once native version is released in Q1 2025) and overall snappiness and more RAM for VMs.
I’m upgrading from an Intel 2018 15” Macbook Pro and was wondering if you recommend a 14” over the 16” with your same specs… Perhaps less thermal throttle? thanks
I think it really comes down to how you use your MacBook. I work off the laptop screen so for me 16 is worth it for the extra screen real estate. If you’re connecting to an external monitor then I’d go 14. I wouldn’t worry too much about the thermals. This year Apple added High Power Mode to the Pros as well. I don’t think they’d add that as option if thermals weren’t good on both sizes
Hi! Is it still going to be a much better choice for people using a lot of CPU hungry soft synth like pigments, massive x? Compared to an M1 Max? I'm not using sample libraries. I'm just interested in being able to do long chains of efx and synth patches, and mixing sessions with lots of plugins! Tysm
I have used windows for years, now i'm going to buy a mac to update my productions , one question for mac users how much is difficult to crack daw, vst and plug ins on mac compared to Windows?
Mac mini no battery charge & replacement, always maximum power output, better cooling system, more ports, ethernet. Macbook if you travel often and stay in hotels.
Thanks for the review! Not much dedicated out there music production. I currently have a 2019 i9 16 inch and looking to upgrade so looking forward to more testing
Yes I would. I always recommend cpu then ram then ssd because you could always get an external ssd. Especially with the thunderbolt 5 we have now. Those thunderbolt 5 external SSDs are fast
These performance gains seem very small for the price of the upgrade. Maybe if you need more than 500 tracks :D I think I'll stick with my M1 Max 64GB for now. I barely get above 30-40% CPU with reasonably large projects. Also, I'm curious why do you have fingerprints on your screen? It's not a touch screen :D
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
When it comes to music production, the truth is that if you're on an M1 Pro chip and haven't had any issues completing your productions, there is absolutely no reason to upgrade.
I’m on an intel i5 2019 Mac 😢I need to my fans sounds like an Indian subway station 🚉
agreed, any m silicone chip is good enough now, 16 gb ram and you're set for the next 5 years, the jump from intel was may more dramatic
instead of using demo session with all the stock plugins, can you do a more real world test? maybe test one of your mix/pruduction sessions with high CPU consumption plugins, and compare with the old M1 Max?
Yes will do a follow up with more testing and comparison. I think many who upgrade will be coming from intel or M1. the reason I used the demo session for these tests is to make sure everyone can test their own computers with the same project making the results comparable
@ great! Thx
Yeah exactly this, often DAW's use a single core for one signal path, which means that if you have a single track with a lot of cpu-heavy plugins, that will be the bottleneck. Therefore I'm wondering how many cpu-heavy plugins (for example Acustica Audio plugins, Izotope Ozone or plugins with oversampling enabled) it can handle on a single track.
Actually, I think a demo test with one of the demo songs in Logic is perfect. Everyone (who uses Logic Pro) will have that exact song along with all the stock Logic Plugins that are used in that song. A test with third party plugins is also good, but not everyone will have those exact same plugins so the results might not mean much to those not having those plugins. I think this test was a perfect way to show off the power of the M4 compared to M1Max. And anyone using Logic can perform the exact same test on their computer.
@@Dubfire69 Yes, exactly what I´m thinking as well. Would be great if there be a test about single core performance, bec this is still a big bottleneck on my 10Core M1 Max. I really hope for big single core improvement bec this is what breaks my CPU in mastering all the time. Think of bus routings, CPU hungry mastering plugins, linear phase and oversampling. Especially Logic s audio engine does pretty bad on equal core distribution. Most of the time one ore two performance cores are peaking til system overload, while the rest of the available core are almost sleeping. That's why I interested the most the single core performance of the new M4 Max compared to the M1 Max. The first Geekbench tests are looking pretty promising. Would appreciate a lot ! @imamusicmogul
Do you mind trying out FL Studio and Ableton for a performance comparison (with plugins like serum, vital, soothe, sylenth1, ..)
Simple and relaxing review, its like sitting down with a friend and having a nice conversation.
I appreciate that! Thank you 🙏
what about fan noise?
Curious if you notice any differences in fan noise when working on the M4 Pro vs your M1 Max.
This is the exact video I need now as I'm on Intel MacBook for ages and am thinking about upgrading to the new one for using logic pro. If it's a seeding video, Apple's PR team you are picking the very right guy for this.
Keep doing what your doing...💪
I like my MBP M1 Max 32GB 4TB storage and the difference isn't enough to make me want to upgrade. Plus I bought my MBP M1 Max refurbished so I saved quite a bit and a similar config of a M4 Pro or Max would be very expensive new.
Agree! We have 2021 M1 Max’s with 64GB ram and they handle everything from audio and video amazingly still! These speeds tests don’t justify an upgrade IMO.
100% - Especially when it's stuff like "the plugin loads faster" - The feel and format is about the same so not enough to justify a 2k investment taking for granted you sell the other one... Cheers.
@@officialhardnoxyou have 10 core cpu?
@@donnafromsouth yes we have 10 core 🤘
Nobody has benchmarked orchestral libraries yet (e.g. VSL Synchron Prime Edition) with say 100 tracks. That would be cool to compare with the M1 Max.
I think there's still some confusion around the M series chips. About the memory bandwidth: If you don't have enough processor cores to saturate it, it is wasted. The reason the Max chip has more bandwidth is it has double the graphics cores. (CPU and GPU shares RAM and therefore memory bandwidth). Apple designed the memory bandwidth to fit the number of CPU and GPU cores, it's not a spec you should worry about.
Second, the M4 is a huge upgrade to M1. For one thing single core performance is close to double, and single core performance is vital for audio work: A single plugin thread runs in a single core. It's the session as a whole that is distributed across cores. Then, for multi core performance, they have added two performance cores in the Pro chip compared to M1, meaning multi core performance is even more impressive. So while this might be the first Apple Silicon generation to actually warrant an upgrade for M1 owners, it will be a huge upgrade for those who do. (I soon will myself).
The reason why bandwidth isn't the same for the different Max (and other tiers off course) has, as you say, to do with the amount of GPU core clusters. But more specifically it has to do with the memory controllers that are associated with each core cluster. For instance, on the old M1 Max each cluster had 8 GPU cores and one 128bit wide memory controller for each that also has to share resources with the CPU. So when they disable one or more cores, or a memory controller due to where the chip defect happens to be, the result is always lower bandwidth. And they won't be able to use all four memory chips (since there will be no way to connect the last one if the chip is defective). And further, if there are two defects in different memory controllers the entire chip needs to be scrapped.
On the M4 Pro and Max the increase in bandwidth comes from faster LPDDR5 and not any inherent differences in bit width on chip. And this metric is actually very, very important for some workloads like inference where the entire GPU is easily saturated. In fact, inference scales almost linearly with bandwidth depending on the model size.
@@fVNzO Awesome. I am wanting to upgrade, I do comfyui stuff and am interested in learning how to train. But I'm not sure 32GB Ram is going to cut it to host LLMs or train. I was thinking about building a 4 GPU (3090s) or 4 M4 Mac Minis to do this once I felt confident enough. Do you think M$ wiht 32 GB Ram can do these things or is in necessary to get 128 GB Ram? Also, do you sound engineer?
@@nicktumi Basically on 16GB of VRAM you can get some very decent models going especially for coding in the 20-30B range. The next step up is 48GB (2x24) for 70+B. And then it goes up from there.
But there's no reason to spend a lot if you don't have experience first. Get a cheap 16GB GPU or use the one you already have that hopefully has 16 and first learn what to do. If you then find that you're interested and want more performance go from there.
Over a thousand tracks, wow! I am actually want to get exact same config you have in a couple of months to upgrade my M2 Air.
Thank you!! This was much needed because we make music, edit videos and live stream now in days
bro ur such a clown
@@daelybasis how old are you dawg
@ old enough to not make baseless comments dawg. Feel free to fact check me on this.
Update: deleted my prior comment, to avoid drama in Adam’s comment section. However, you saw what I wrote, please DYOR.
@@busyworksbeats busy ur so lame
I hope logic is coming with another update
Which model should I take, Mac Mini M4 or Mac Mini M4 Pro for Logic Pro? And how much RAM should I have?
@imamusicmogul responded this to another question: If you use more sample based instruments go with the higher unified memory option. If you use more synths and lots of fx plugins go with the better cpu plus the better cpu gives you more gpu cores as well for video work if that something you do
The question was: Due to budget, would you rather go for 12 core pro wirh 48gb ram or the 14 core pro with 24gh ram? But with cubase.
Hi can you please tell me how well the m4 max or pro manage with plugins in a loce setting. Is there latency or could I mix my band's 8x stems live set (4 plugs per stem) with ableton or logic plugs and a soundcard , not needing a mixing desk.
And what would be best best bang fot buck here
Due to budget, would you rather go for 12 core pro wirh 48gb ram or the 14 core pro with 24gh ram? But with cubase.
If you use more sample based instruments go with the higher unified memory option. If you use more synths and lots of fx plugins go with the better cpu plus the better cpu gives you more gpu cores as well for video work if that something you do
Ok, so I recently ran into an issue in logic. I'm not sure if its M1 issue. I would like you to try this. Do some parallel and side chain compression (kick, snare, toms) onto everything but vocals, then side chain compress vocals onto everything else. Let me know if you have any latency issues on your bussed tracks. I bus my vocal tracks to an FX bus and a separate one for echos to ensure CPU is not getting bogged down and to keep consistency in vocal sound. ISSUE: I get 1 sec latency to my echo bus (also buses to VoxFX bus) when I started implementing side chain compression. I've heard that this is either CPU or Logic specific issue. I also heard Ableton also has this issue, but not Protools. So, if its a Logic issue, this would be a huge problem for the industry, since parallel and side chain compression really make a difference in mastering IMO.
I’m wondering if upgrading ram from 24 to 48 is more worthwhile or cpu from 12 to 14 for the logic pro performance (if i can only upgrade one). Thanks for your video !
Same question
I would upgrade the CPU first for music production. Then ram then ssd. Sample based plugins usually take up more ram but synths and fx plugins typically rely on the cpu. Plus you got memory swap when you need more ram. the MacBook will use some of your ssd space temporally to support the load. I believe it’s up to a max of 64gb but I have to double check that. May be less or more but I’m pretty sure there’s a soft cap on it
@@imamusicmogul Thank you so much ! It’s useful for your suggestion. I would like to upgrade cpu first.
I need to see how it stacks up against older models and other DAWs
True nano texture reviews will come after 6 months of use. Matte finish is nice at first because it’s different but after a longer period of time you start to understand what you prefer more… visual quality or reduction of glare. .
I’ve used several matte displays, can’t go back to them.
I think matte makes more sense on portable devices.
lot of people live in countries with lots of light, sun almost everyday.. matte display helps
You're confusing two different things. This is not a matte display, it's some liquid shit or wtv(I forgot) different Apple did inside the display, same as the latest Samsung flagship phones. These DONT reduce the contrast while also reducing the glare at the same time.
@@sa1f43 They do reduce the contrast... have you seen one in person? I understand the technology behind it, but everything has pros and cons.
I happen to not like matte finish displays, but many people do.
@sa1f43 you think it works good?
But how is latency while recording with many 3rd party plugins? I like recording into my mix template but doing it all in low latency mode kills the vibe
Best video on the new macs so far. Feels authentic in a way other channels don't.
Thank you appreciate the luv 🙏
@@imamusicmogul @imamusicmogul hey your timeline says performace instead of performance
Cool video! I'd be really interesting in seeing how many instances of Kontakt it can handle for scoring. That stuff gets pretty resource heavy.
Is this Mac worth it for beginner producers? My daughter is very into music and uses her IPad as of now. I don’t understand as much as she does but this video was insightful, thanks.
Not only for beginners ;)
I would say it's overkill for a young beginner. My old M1 Max still handles very large projects in Ableton Live no problem at all. I never see beyond 40% CPU.
Is M4 compatible with UAD Apollo x8 Heritage Edition 1st gen interface?
Great content as always...I was waiting for your video to be honest...One question...Should I go for 24 or 48 GB of RAM?
I usually have 30 to 40 tracks in my projects...Thanks in advance
I would say 24GB should be enough. Especially with the unified memory is faster on M4 than previous M series silicon. Plus the computer memory bandwidth is so fast you shouldn’t even notice a glitch if your computer taps into the shared memory. I do wish we had more options for unified memory on the pro tho.
Can you say something about the fan noise while doing heavy work in logic. I heard that they are louder than the previous generations. Is it true?
In my 2 weeks of using the M4 Pro the fans have not turned on, even during these tests I did for the video. From my 3 years using the M1 Max - when the fans did turn on they were still super quiet
@ thanks buddy!
Do you get any fan noise under heavy load ?
not at all really. So far the fans on the M4 Pro did not turn on. But from my 3 years using the M1 Max, the times the fan did turn on, it was still super quiet. I'd still track audio with the fans on because it's so quiet
@ Thanks a lot, your vidéos are great and very helpful 👍
@@imamusicmogulthere are fans? 😂
I'm so excited for mine! I ordered mine today, waiting for them to come to South Africa!
Maybe a stupid question but what is the best way to migrate your plugins from one to the other computer? Using iLock.
Was that initial box you opened the Pro?
That charger looks like the one that comes with the max
How is the MIDI clock sync out from the DAW into hardware? The M1 Pro has amazing sync, with extremely low amounts of jitter, but I'm not sure that is the case for all the subsequent models.
Question about the nano-texture: if/when you do happen to get fingerprint smudges on it, is it easy to clean? Thanks.
It is easy to clean. The documentation included in the box actually explains the cleaning process. It says when cleaning the display you should only use the included polishing cloth and if there hard smudges you can use a 70% isopropyl alcohol solution. But not to spray the screen directly. I’m guessing they added that because the screen is a little more sensitive than the standard one but I wouldn’t be worried about that too much.
This looks so nice. Do you think is worth upgrading from a M3 Pro Macbook? 2 months ago, I bought one with 12 core CPU (6P + 6E), but its crazy that now they give you 10P cores.
The more performance cores the better for music production but if you’re happy with what you have now and it’s getting the job done without you feeling frustrated I would say stay with the M3 Pro for now
Awesome video! I am still using a max spec’d 2014 MBP. She’s been so good to me, and I am usually using hardware synths/gear and UAD-2 plugins. But now with all these new powerful in the box tools, I think it’s time to put her to rest. M4 here I come🎉. Btw, what song did you use for the outro music? I really like it 😂.
2:42 Nice shot on Ableton Move! I’d love to see a way to integrate it into a Logic Pro workflow
Good catch and will do! The Move is so fun and inspiring fr
m3 max here - over 3000 tracks of that same project, at 75% cpu with room for a lot more. What are your audio settings? Try setting your processing threads to the highest number of cores you have and 1024 buffer size. I'm just curious
In my video I should have mentioned that I ran the tests at 128 buffer size as I wanted to really push the CPU’s. Should have done another test at 1024 and record the difference. I will include that in a follow up video
@@imamusicmogul Again, what is the RTL for tracking multi-channel (20+)? That's where I want to live and it seems most reviews rate this from a higher sample-rate mixing angle.
Thanks, that sounds great. So i think its Time to Upgrade it my MacBook Air with M1 (2020) :-) do you think then the MacBook Pro M4 Pro its enough. We don't need the M4 Max? I'm a Drummer and use it for my Recordings, Logic Pro and Final Cut Pro.
what u think about MacBook Pro Max - M3 - 128GB RAM 16 CPU / 40 GPU / 8 TB SSD
U maxed out I wouldn’t upgrade until like 2-3 years
thanks for the video. informative and valuble.
do you recommend to upgrade to *Sequoia*? for music production?
Waves Plugins, Soudntoys, Izotope, Arturia...
Can you check to see what the latency is with the internal sound card is in the settings? I believe the M3 was 6.4ms with just the Apple hardware and no interface. Should be lower with the higher CPU clock speed.
been stuck with a macbook pro 11 for the last decade, i think it’s time for an upgrade 😭 just wasn’t sure if getting m4 pro makes more of a difference than the m4 itself
Hey I was wondering if the Nano texture is also losing a bit of sharpness compared to the standard glass like on the studio display?
Yes. It is quite dull. This is coming from an intel iMac with the nano textured screen. It's a lovely screen but it is a lot duller. The glossy screen does a reasonable job however of managing reflections all that said. Our studio is quite bright and the mac studio display is very competent in this room. The nano textured glass reduces the glare even more but I would say the standard screen is remarkably adept at doing the same thing. I was expecting a lot worse when we upgraded to the Mac Studio with the regular screen.
I would say the nano texture display doesn’t quite have the same boldness or pop of color the standard screen has. Anytime you go matte that is the trade off your making. I would recommend going into the Apple Store and see the two screens side by side before you buy. I used to not want nano texture but now that I tried it. I love it. Like I mentioned in the video it seems softer to look at and I think that’s because you don’t see reflections or all the fingerprints on the screen.
But will it stay like this die Years? Or will it get glossy by wrong maintenance / cleaning it
@@martindot7720 It can't get glossy. The technology is really quite radically different. It's not like a slab of polished glass. And you can't just polish matte into glossy. Your decision should only be about whether or not you need it (i.e. standard glass might be just fine like I said we were shocked at how reasonable it was regarding reflections). And second point is you have to go into the store and see them side by side. That should be your number 1 priority really. It is quite dull. Not in general just when compared to the standard glass option. You have to see this there is no other way. I think the nano screen is a little less bright too at full brightness. Apple might quote the same figure but to me it looked less bright in direct side-by-side.
Can you please tell me the exact model with CPU, RAM memory and hard disk you bought or show a link?
Could you share if there is any difference in latency in Logic between the two?
Thanks for the great videos! Any suggestions on which Mac Mini M4 to choose for Pro Tools, recording / production, mixing vocals? I’m trying to leave as many processing plugins active in my session as I can and get away from having to freeze and commit everything. I don’t leave a ton of VSTs active but maybe a few. Really just high track count, lots of auto tune, melodyne, bus processing. Am I after more RAM or more more cores? Would the base M4 Pro be good enough or do you think I’d need to even upgrade that? Coming from intel. Thanks!
Would it make sense to take advantage of the higher band width which the thunderbolt 5 ports offer and just go for a 256gb model and use an external hard drive for libraries and instruments ?
I’d say it’s not worth it. Thunderbolt 5 is only available on the M4 Pro and Max. the base M4 Pro comes with 512GB stock and $400 to upgrade to 2 TB. The OWC 2TB Thunderbolt 5 ssd is $400 so I’d say it’s better to go with the internal drive for the same price
M1 Max = Greyhound
M4 Pro = Cheetah
Thank you for such contents...Can you please do a video on what logic pro audio settings to use for the best performance like core counts,cause my logic pro keeps on quiting unexpectedly very often,even though the cpu meter is barely above 25% ...Thank you.
with how much storage did you buy the M4 Pro?
Excellent choice! Also, love the Austrian Audio mic.
I know this is an M4 review, however where is your hoodie from?
M2 Ultra Studio (find a refurb) still top value for audio at this point imho. It's all about the performance cores. 😃
Apple Intelligence won't be available in Europe any time soon so that's worth considering if you're from Europe and want to get the newest mac
You can use it now on the mac just not the iPhone till April
I own a MacBook M2 Pro, 12 Core (8 Performance, 4 Efficiency Cores) 32 Gb Ram. It runs very good. Should I update to an M4 pro? I am working with logic, recording music, using plenty of plug ins. But I just bought the Mac not very long time ago. So I am not sure, just thinking about a long term decision. but every year there is a new MacBook, so what to do? Greetings from Germany
But how about plugin compatibility, and VST instruments compatibility? Is it everything will works well?
Everything working good so far - same as my M1 Max
It's the first time since the start of the M series, I am considering an upgrade. At the same time my M1 still does all I need it to do, and then some. That's way I am holding off the upgrade for now.
Is this the 14 or 16?
I am currently using 2018 intel macbook pro and it feels sluggish and gets very hot on my lap.
I prefer the 14 inch, but I am worried if the bigger cooling system on the 16 would be more practical on the long run.
Hope someone can help
HOw is the recommendation on m4 Pro vs m4 Max and vs Mac studio M2 vs Imac m4 ?
Basically ; what Mac do you recommend for music production over all?
Apreciate the work, have a great day
If you are doing graphic work like video editing then I prefer the Max chipsets if not the go with one of the M4 chips depending on your budget. M4 is a beast for most things other than heavy graphic work.
7:30 background music almost made me tear, interesting the emotional vibe its giving.
Y r u gei
I am quite curious about tracking performance, round-trip-latency for multi-channel - 20+ tracks at 24-bit/48K. I understand single core performance is improved but does the lower memory bandwidth impact this. What is the real difference between base M1 and M4 Pro/Max. I am steering toward the Mini side if I make the move to silicon. Again, Tracking vs. mixing.
It shouldn’t impact it as audio is less intensive than video. And these are video powerhouse which can edit approx 20 streams of 4k or several streams of 8k so I would say you should be good tracking 10 tracks of audio with no issues at all. Just make sure to get the most performance core you can get for your budget
Any reason that people wouldnt recommend Macbook Pro as a mac mini replacement? i realize you pay extra for portability and less ports, but are there other downsides?
Hello, thanks for the great video. Would you say RAM matters for music production? I want to get the same Mac as in the video, but I'm doubting between 24 gb of ram and 48 gb of ram.
Interesting about the nano textured glass. I might actually consider that when I upgrade in a couple years.
Best review for music producers so far, and hope to see a comparison between m4 pro and m4 standard in the future
I’ve got the M1 Pro 16inch Base model. Still dope. I prefer the standard over the nano display
I believe that most producers with an M1 Mac or higher don't NEED to upgrade. Those machines can already handle almost anything you throw at them. You only need to upgrade if you run into limitations. Having 'a little snappier experience' for over 3000 dollars seems like GAS. But if course, to each their own.
To me it is about tracking round-trip latency for multi-channel simultaneous recording (20+).
I would disagree if you own a M1 based even with 16gb RAM, I cant even make a full aong with 10 tracks on some of the sythn I use. If you own an M1 Max it's a different story; there is no real emergency to upgrade.
does that thing have a desser and a highpass?
Thanks for posting this...I was wondering how good the new M4s are with music production. Question for you: Do you think the 24GB Ram configuration is enough? Why did you go with 48GB? Also, how much SSD did you get? Did you stick with 1TB or go higher, and why? Thanks.
I tend to agree that 24gb is plenty good. Went to the Apple Store to check out the new M4 MacBook Pro before buying. The binned version 12-core (with only 8 performance cores), 24gb ram, comfortably running the Montero Logic project with Spatial Audio….hope you’re sitting down…..1120 tracks, no issues, didn’t even hit the 70% or use all the cores.
That’s a good result. I’m impressed it was able to pump out that many tracks on 24 gb of unified memory. I usually like a minimum of 32Gb but the way Apple handles memory is very efficient. And I think that test you ran yourself answers the questions 24 GB should be enough
I usually go with at least 1 TB. But 2 TB is is my new go to. 48GB is the max memory you can get on MacBook Pro M4 Pro. The Mini M4 Pro can go 64GB for some reason.
Good Review! I'm still rocking my MacBook Pro 14" M1 Pro with 10-Core CPU 32GB of RAM and 1TB Storage for Music Production. This Machine runs like on Day 1. Definitely will wait another 1-2 Years before upgrading.
Good choice! I always say if you’re still happy with the performance there’s no need to upgrade
How many audio tracks are you recording at once? And what are your audio settings and stable RTL?
@@trebleboost7 For the case that the question was torwarded me: I dont usually record audio. I'm producing electronic music and use a lot of synths and instrument libraries. Thats why I got the 10-Core CPU Version back in the day. The 32GB of RAM also comes in handy for those libraries as my projects get up to 15GB in memory. My project sample rate is always 48000 and usually have set a buffer size around 128. But the cpu could also handle 64. My projects contain something between 20 and 100 Tracks, depending on what I do. The M1 Pro has no problems with it. And I use Ableton btw.
Using an Intel i7 still... waiting for prices to fall on the older "M" chips as it will still be a serious upgrade
maybe run fabfilter l2 limiter or standart clip with 128 oversampling and copy as much as possible
Thank you for this vid!!! So helpful 😊 Curious to know how long the battery will last on average when working on projects? (Assuming the bigger the project the less it will last ofc)
The one concern i have is fan noise especially if recording audio and am near the macbook
Great video, do all your external plugins run fine on M4
Yes, absolutely
You did exactly what I was waiting bro!! Can you do the same with the Mac Mini ?
Thanks
Maschine 3 came out yesterday and it has that track copy mastering. Crazy. Have not tried it yet.
Do you think the nano texture display makes the color black up pure lighter and text appear less sharp?
Which one has louder speakers ? 16" m1 or 16" m4? Speakers feel a bit weak on my M1, I can hardly hear some videos turned all the way to max :'( - especially with the fan or heat pump going which is right outside my room.
That’s actually something I did not test. I will test that in a follow up video. My M1 Max speakers are really loud so i would
Imagine the new one have the same speakers
Very interested in the transfer of plug ins from Intel to M silicon and how that goes…..I know a minefield and probably done before BUT I’ve waited for the M4 till I do it…
You should be good to go. When I switched over to M1 Max it was a smooth transition
Can you do a video with Pro tools and heavy plugins?
Thats the config I am thinking of going for from a 14" MBP with M1 Pro 32 GB / 4 TB.
Main reason - to be able to mess around with bigger local LLMs (it seems however that 64 GB is recommended minimum more or less so it sucks that Apple does not offer M4 Pro config as in Mac Mini), better gaming (would play Cyberpunk once native version is released in Q1 2025) and overall snappiness and more RAM for VMs.
How does it compare to m3 pro max?
Very nice - and absolutely needed - review.
Would be perfect of you could follow up with in depth tests. Bonus points for fan noise, etc…
will try to incorporate the fan noise - but they have not turned on yet, even with these performance tests
Wow, nearly doubling the track amount on M4 vs M1 is quite astonishing!
I was specifically looking to grab an M1 Max or an M4 Pro mostly for music. Thanks for this vid.
Test the m4 pro vs the m4 pro max!! great video thanks
I’m upgrading from an Intel 2018 15” Macbook Pro and was wondering if you recommend a 14” over the 16” with your same specs… Perhaps less thermal throttle? thanks
I think it really comes down to how you use your MacBook. I work off the laptop screen so for me 16 is worth it for the extra screen real estate. If you’re connecting to an external monitor then I’d go 14. I wouldn’t worry too much about the thermals. This year Apple added High Power Mode to the Pros as well. I don’t think they’d add that as option if thermals weren’t good on both sizes
Hi! Is it still going to be a much better choice for people using a lot of CPU hungry soft synth like pigments, massive x? Compared to an M1 Max? I'm not using sample libraries. I'm just interested in being able to do long chains of efx and synth patches, and mixing sessions with lots of plugins! Tysm
Yes, absolutely because your getting more/faster performance cores if you go with 14 core M4 Pro.
I have used windows for years, now i'm going to buy a mac to update my productions , one question for mac users how much is difficult to crack daw, vst and plug ins on mac compared to Windows?
If you wanna crack get an m1 max macbook pro and don't upgrade to the latest os. The newer the harder.
I'm currently using the M1 max pro. Tell me it's still worth it😩
Would you suggest the MacBook or Mac mini?
Mac mini no battery charge & replacement, always maximum power output, better cooling system, more ports, ethernet. Macbook if you travel often and stay in hotels.
good luck ❤
Thanks for the review! Not much dedicated out there music production. I currently have a 2019 i9 16 inch and looking to upgrade so looking forward to more testing
I’ll be doing more testing so if there’s anything you’d like me try and test let me know and I’ll try and include it
Do you recommend opting for more CPU and Unified Memory over storage? Currently have my eyes on the 12CPU 512GB Pro Chip
Yes I would. I always recommend cpu then ram then ssd because you could always get an external ssd. Especially with the thunderbolt 5 we have now. Those thunderbolt 5 external SSDs are fast
Is a Mac-Mini for 699,-€ with a M4 faster than a iMac &-Core Intel 3,7 GHz? (in context of LogicPro)
These performance gains seem very small for the price of the upgrade. Maybe if you need more than 500 tracks :D
I think I'll stick with my M1 Max 64GB for now. I barely get above 30-40% CPU with reasonably large projects.
Also, I'm curious why do you have fingerprints on your screen? It's not a touch screen :D
32 buffer size with oversampled fabfilter would be the test IMO
This is a great video. Thanks man.
I really appreciate that thank you 🙏