Will this NEW extruder gear solve the issue?
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
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This new RIDGA from Bondtech should make quite a difference on your print quality. The precision of this unit is much better compared to the previous version.
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Thank you very much!
MirageC
This is how open source is supposed to work. Good job Bondtech! Good Job MirageC!
Thank you ! 😀
@@MirageClove your work! Any solution like this for bambu printers?
Not just improving YOUR extruder, but also the Sherpa and all the other using the same components. Congrats !
Yup that was the intent.
So excited. Gonna try to order one for my sherpa!
@@jakobwest4811Not sure it will fit the Sherpa, as on that design you need to insert the filament gear from the front, and the POM gear from the back. Probably there will be a new revision to make RIGDA work, but it's not yet available nor the development announced.
@@karellen00 churls has already finished his RIGDA mods :P
Which others?
I just want to thank you and bondtech for this. It's awesome to see these kind of advancements in the 3d printing space.
Our pleasure!
Thanks for doing so much precise, technical evaluation of 3DP parts. It saves me so much of my time and effort, and truth be told, I couldn't do what you do anyway. What you do isn't just a boon to me, but to Bondtech and to the entire community.
I love the experimental, bleeding edge nature of your channel. I would love to see all of these findings and improvements make it into a community developed build like a Voron.
Martin and the team at Bondtech have always been amazing people to collaborate with. They are always looking for continuous improvement.
I love the comparisons of the measurements to a hair and layer height. Makes it much more approachable than just some numbers.
Glad it was helpful!
That was american unit though. 😂 All over the world use metric.
This is the most american thing I've ever seen this month.
You have come first in the entire world. I saw your previous video and marvelled at your deductive skills, as well as your methodology. This is a win for all of us who use Bondtech. We'll done them for sitting up and listening, and thank you so much for such engineering goodness. Superb effort and a deservedly excellent result.
So nice of you! thank you for the kind words 😊
Thats a step forward! Congrats. I fixed the offcenter issue of the gear on the shaft by hugging the shaft with a piece of aluminium foil until the gear was a bid snag when placed on the shaft so the gear was not off center when screewing it down. That worked veeery good on my orbiter v2 clone.
Oh, you just solve the famous prusa mk3 602 issue ! I hope bondtech will improve their extruder to have the same level of quality with standard ones
Its in the plan as I am getting told.
Awesome. Thank you for pushing the boundaries of FDM printing.
Turns out, that listing to and collaborating with customers will generate the best advertisement for a company.
Great video as always
Love the interaction with bontech and the DIY community ❤️
Thanks for sharing your expirence with all of us.
We all moves forward 👍 😀
Your contribution to 3d printing will be observed in smooth layer lines for years to come.
Gosh, this makes me very happy to see. Thank you and Bondtech so very much! I'm going to run this gear on all my printers from now on
I’m currently in talks with Bondtech to make sure my V2 DDX won’t need any sort of upgrade to fit this new drive gear. I’ve been fighting print quality for a few weeks now and I’ve stumbled upon these series of videos with hopes that it fixes my issues. The amount of depth and detail has earned you a subscriber
We only use bontech stuff at production. Great company and product 👏🏻
The inconsistent extrusion is the one problem I have with my Prusa i3MK3S+. I’m glad to see the solution in the works!
You lie, Josef said before there is no extrusion issues on mk3 ! 🤭
Hopefully they make one with the gear flipped for the voron steathburners
It's in the plans :)
you mean clockworks? ^^
Came here looking for this comment!
@@MirageC ClockDort
everything about that new gear assembly sounds amazing, definitely going to have it in my next printer
Hope you enjoy it!
The 3D printing community really fortunate to have people like you. Awesome professional work 👍. Thank you 💕
I love all the measurements you do! Data, facts & test prints, we love them!
Thanks a lot, I am really looking forward to testing it.
I built my own interpretation of a highspeed printer at the beginning of last year, and the irregular extrusion is an issue that I gave up on troubleshooting.
(My most successful fix was replacing the second hob gear with a bearing, as has worked for you too)
Just slapped one in my CW2! Runs great! Thanks for all you've done for this leap in DD print quality!
Was it plug and play or did you have to modify the extruder?
@@silent16932 only had to swap bearings for MR84s that are 2.5mm wide, KB3D has them for a good deal.
@@jeevus3d980 wait wait in CW2?? I have bought RIDGA but it's reversed. I'd be happy if this is possible!!!
@@iniqy yessir!! First release of the gear from KB3D!
Bondtech is a great company with great products. I'm disappointed this won't fit the BMG extruder. I have two of them.
6 weeks and BMG version should be available as I am told by Bondtech.
@@MirageC Excellent news! Thanks!
This is great stuff, very thankful for your and Bondtech's work on this! Now I really hope a version that is compatible with Prusa MK3 is in the works. I don't like most prints out of it because of how ugly the surface quality is.
Yes! I need this so badly! I want to love my Prusa Mk3S+, but I just can't because of the surface quality. My sub-$300 Sovol SV06 has better surface quality.
Is there an update to the ultimate hotend testing series coming? The first announcement was 8 months ago and the last video 6 months ago
Yes that is next on the list. Sorry for all that waiting. I was a bit too ambitious with the 2-3 hours a day I have available for all these projects. But now I have help for the data crunching.
That is great work from you and bondtech. 👍
really hope you get a kickback from every gear sold. Well done, and happy Bondtech made it happen
Companies like Bondtech and creality should patreon you for your research work
Looks awesome! Seems like anyone with an extruder based on bondtech gears should rework the designs to be based on this gearset. I love my TL etc, but this seems like an easy place to buy the premium parts and see real rewards, whatever extruder you choose to throw em in. Thanks for the vid!
I was considering an Orbiter 2.0, but after seeing this I'll stick with upgrading my BMG to IGDA. Thank you!
Thank you for this video and for sharing this great work. Using 4x bearings instead of the second pinion is smart because you no longer have to worry about managing the optimal distance between pinions versus gripping tension of the filament. Maybe you should replace one of these bearings with a smaller cylinder to avoid contact with the tooth of the remaining pinion?
Looks like I'm waiting for the upgrade to be used with the LGX lite. Congrats, your work is paying off!
Just ordered one and printed the new Sherpa Mini housing for it. Great video!
I wish I could use these on the BMG cologne I got recently but I guess I’ll just have to put them on the Sherpa mini!
Thank you so much for doing this. Looks like I need to find a replacement for my BMG on my Prusa.
I am about to make magnetic couplers for my Z axis to eliminate any z wobble, this video shows me the next thing to work on for perfectly smooth prints. Well this and quality 0.9 deg steppers on X and Y, a Raspberry Pi and Klipper.
Lol, I'm aware I have a "Ship of Theseus" thing going on with my Mk2, seeing as it's now almost a Mk3S with a BMG, Dragon hotend & 0.9 pancake stepper.
I should have changed to a CoreXY a while ago, but I see this as a learning experience and testbed to learn exactly how I want my custom printer to be.
I really need to get a resin printer too, seeing as I've been printing with a 0.15mm nozzle lately.
@Russell Phelan god damn you got everything out of your printer! I klipperized mine a week ago and sitting comfortably at 150mm/s infill and 75mm/s walls.
You mind sharing a list of your mods/upgrades to a fellow s1 enjoyer? ;)
This adaptation (drilling) for a new gear makes a huge gap for flex filament get stuck in, at least so it looks. Please try TPU.
or TPE 😉 ... ruclips.net/user/shortsctdWUshXkzI
I just picked up a similar extruder, BIQU H2 V2S REVO. Noticed the solid gears and when i took one apart i was surprised by the quality. I got it for $45 and don't plan to use the Revo hotend, and will be adapting it to my hardened nozzle/volcano v1 (MK8)/ with copper adaptor Frankenstein of a hot end. I'll also be making my own silicone sock, once i figure out the best way to use foaming silicone.. maybe just using standoffs to make it "hollow" and minimize how much the sock touches the heater block
Sorry for the keyboard diarrhea
Beautiful!
But i still think dual sided extruders have been, for the most part, a mistake. Like you said, idling against a bearing is entirely par for the course.
That is my understanding as of yet too.
Try the cnc vz-hextrudort :)
@@Vez3D soon!
@@MirageC Yes, please review the vz-hextrudort as soon as you can. You're review on it will determine if I should buy it. Vez said it completely eliminated those extrusion artifacts.
i love you videos , you always show results based on real stats and studies , well done my friend 👌
I like the funky "octopus tentacles" part cooling duct. Is there a video on that, or will there be in the future?
Yes it will :)
Can't wait to try it! Already on backorder, but thats to be expected.
Wow! Thats a huge difference!
Bondtech is the GOAT
Wonder if there will be an upgrade available for the LGX! Or even if this issue is comparable.
I love happy endings. Though I am a bit miffed about the idea of having to ditch dual-gear extruders.
Hi I was thinking about this problem today and I had two ideas. One was of course just make the entire assembly out of one chunk of metal on the lathe. Meaning the plastic gear that gets pressed on as well. And also cnc’ed idler arms to ensure the cylindrical axis stays perfectly parallel to the other drive gear. Also, we should be using pressed gears on motors instead of set screws as that would fix some issue as well. My second thought was using the hysteresis of Bowden in a different way as a sort of “flow pressure capacitor”. Like what if you had a properly engineering chamber in the hotend that minimized stringing but also allowed for a flow buffer for more consistent pressure?
is there a compatibility chart somewhere? with and without modifications would be perfect. I can not believe that only two extruder are compatible
I have done the heavy lifting of highlighting the issue and worked on a solution with Bondtech. Since all reversed gear config extruders are very similar, I hope the community will come forward with versions that can accept this upgrade.
What an amazing project and results.
great job 🎉🎉 you manage to achieve the unthinkable
Oddly enough, i built a validation stand to hold my .0005 indicator to check this. My findings with the 3 I checked, the one with the absolute best runout on the body of the gear (.0035) Unfortunately, I dont have an indicator tip that is small enough to mesure the depths of the gear to see not only runout, but the depth/peak variation.
"Just like seen on TV".🤞
Great vid as always! Superb data
Trop fort Cousin ! Bien joué, merci :)
Merci!
Cool men, yuo finally did it😊
Now they need to RNC coat the gear, and release a high precision idler as well
Wow, amazing difference and great insights as always! Where can we find this small test rig design? Got a bunch of gears to test. 0:43 hint: damping 😉
Dampening VS Damping... Damn! lol. Thanks for the comment :) you can find a step for my little rig here: github.com/MirageC79/HextrudORT/tree/main/files/TOOLING
I wonder if there's a way to tune an existing gear that uses a set screw so that it's perfectly centered and gives the same performance?
Looks basically like the Prusa MINI extruder gear :)
@MirageC
so the RIDGA did not use helical gearing/teeth as i had expected, can you elaborate what this means for us going forward? I thought Vez had found the final solution to the issue regarding wandering filament
Bondtech does their own design, I have highlighted the flaws and potential issue of filament walking and this is the product that Bondtech came out with at the issue of this discussion. In all honesty it is a huge step forward. I have not had the chance to install my VZ-Hextrudort-Low yet, so I cannot comment on the helical or twirl gear yet.
I've tested CNC VZ-Hextrudort from mellow, and the print looks almost identical as from orbiter 2.0. Be it due to bad QC or design issues, it didn't really improve my print quality. They are also selling it with 8T stepper while Vez says that 10T stepper fits it better which is also baffling for me.
It would be interesting to compare Ridga with LGX
After watching your both videos, i have been wondering why my same sherpa micro on clone gears was giving better layer lines than now. I have replaced the short bowden tube, I cut the new one is little bit larger for very snugg fit. That might take away the little give previous one had. I might need to cut the tube little short than required and see the effect.
Nuno at bondtech rocks!!!! Great company better guys!!
The best!
Kudos Bondtech 8-)8-)
Fantastic analysis!
3mm filament would likely even out the lack of precision in the extruder, but only due to the defects happening more gradually
3mm filament would be pretty much the same as the volume of the inconsistencies would be amplified by the larger filament cross section. I would be spread over a greater extrusion distance, but it would still be there.
@@MirageC I agree. However, the greater extrusion distance would mean a gradual change in the defect and less noticeable. Either way, interesting video, thanks!
Test the gears on a hextrudort! That I want to see!
While that is an amazing achievement a single deeper grooved hobbgear (like the mk7 or mk8) would be better for the one sided extruder design 😔
I prefer those with a bearing idler, especially for more flexible materials.
Very nice! I hope they can make something compatible for the BMG extruded!
yes it will. 6 weeks ;)
I can't wait to see this make it to the orbiter.
Fabulous work!
The eccentricity of the plastic gear is of little consequence. Even if it's off my 0.2 mm the mesh play will be much less than that. However, if you do redesign this then why on earth wouldn't you make the mirroring gear helical, which would fix much of the meshing play that all of those non-helical dual drive extruders have???
I cannot speak on behalf of Bondtech, but I think that part of the plan was to release something now to fix eccentricity now, and then take all that feedback and come up with the next gen extruder. Anyways, I like to think that this is the plan... 😉
Sweet ty for the video.
Love your videos, thank you so much for helping out the community with your mystery solving!!
Little side note: it's damping, not dampening! They are used almost interchangeably, but damping is the correct term in this context
Thanks for the tip! I always mix damping and dampening... damn! 😅
I hope Bondtech tossed you some coins for your effort because you just solved the problem of over half a million Prusa printers alone. As someone with an MK3S print farm I'm really looking forward to that update, even if it increases the overall print quality by "only" 20%.
I bought a new BMG extruder at the end of the last year. I should wait with the purchase. 😢
Evolution... its the same everywhere. Phones, cars, computers...
Oh damn and here I thought it would fit a normal BMG extruder from them as I only saw part of teh RIDGA adress. Pity.
It will. In 6 weeks. This reversed unit was the test bed.
Damn it's on backorder. Now I am wondering if a shim between the shaft and drive gear would achieve almost the same level.
Some users did get good results with this. The plastic gear will still remain potentially eccentric though.
Forgive me if this has been asked, will you be reviewing the Orbiter 2.0?
I bought several of Bondtech's original 2.75 gears and they were useless - the gears wouldn't mesh with the filament in place! This single gear piece seems to be an improvement. But, having been burned by buying expensive Bondtech gears that do not work, I will wait for a lot of real world reviews before I will consider purchasing this one.
I just wish there was a solution for the orbiter.
Quick question, actually. How does this affect the LGX and LGX Lite extruders? I imagine the gearing system in that is done differently. Do you know if Bondtech intend to remake their molds for these improved tolerances on the LGX?
From my information, bondtech is probably making a all metal gear LGX Lite version, but at the same time, probably not necessarily for the public.
@@5jvm0u4 I'm aware a new LGX Lite variant is coming 👀
They have all metal gears for the LGX which also fits the LGX lite. I have no idea if it affects the surface quality or not though
Oh! that I did not know! good to hear!
Hi there, how does that compare to the vz-hextrudort aluminium with the special gear that they have? Is the performance similar or the vz-hextrudort will show the marks like the old gear? Thanks in advance and keep the amazing work
I have not yet tried the VZ-HextrudORT-low. Its on my to do list.
@@MirageC keep up the amazing work 😎👌
Looking for your advice: I have a Sherpa Micro with the original BMG gears on my Voron V0.2. Last night I built a second Sherpa Micro with the new RIDGA gears. I printed a Voron Design Cube test print with each Sherpa, and in those single test prints, I cannot tell the difference. Admittedly, I haven't done much in the way of print tuning on this printer, and I printed the cubes in eSun ABS, versus your Eryone Silk PLA. Not sure how much that would make a difference to the end result. I am probably doing something wrong (my wife would tell me that it's usually my fault).
Could you share the STLs that you used for your tests? Looks like the tube is printed in vase mode, is that correct?
Fantastic work, as always! Thanks to you and Bondtech for your efforts!
So basicaly E3D Titan with straith cut gear and idler should be The best
Have you tried their LGX Large Gears eXtruder? It might not have this problem simply due to large gears.
That's great! Have a little question. Is RIDGA compatibile vith Mellow's ALU VzHextrudort? 😁
No, VZ-Hextrudort-Low is a completely different beast. They basically only share name and front cover style.
@@MirageC OK, thanks. You are a beast. 😅
@@pavelkolar9543 I am indeed! Just as much hair and as ugly as the beast himself! lol 🤣🤣
This is cool but why did they change it from 5mm to 4mm? It would have been way better as a simple swap.
Regardless, I’m going to get them for my Vorons. Just seems like a weird thing to change the size of.
Apparently machining the units was easier this way. And it allows for bearings with bigger balls which is good for precision and smoothness in this case.
@@MirageC ah okay. I assumed they wouldn’t have done it if there wasn’t a reason. Definitely a pain that I now have to get bearings too, but a small cost for such great improvements!
The work of you and BondTech is impressive. Thank you so much for all you do
If bowden produces less artefacts than direct drive, some flex in the drive coupling would reduce that. Alternatively can CGODE limit extruder acceleration?
All those methods would compromise the extrusion timing. A very precise quantity at a very precise time. Change any of these two and you will get artifacts. Bowden damping effect has the downside of not supporting high speed printing.
yeesh, this sounds like the best option would be to just have the force transmission gear separate from both hobs, and have those simply turning on bearings always pushed to the same side
quality by design anyone?
It doesnt work with any Standard BMG ... wich kinda sucks that we still have to use the grubscrews..... What they sell works on clockworks, vorons and custom jobs...
they have others that can support the BMG
Wait , what about the toothed timing pulley on the stepper motor ????
Any update about a BMG gear replacement? Also heard that the nylon gear was machined instead of being pressed. Is that part of the new gear as well?
great video !!!
Thank you!!
Very nice work! Is the Bondtech LGX Lite also affected by this problem?
I cannot say for the LGX lite as I did not investigate in depth that system yet.
Hello. What about gears of increased diameter, like the LGX extruder? There's probably no such problem there?
@@WhiteG60 Yes, the gear here is all-metal, mounted equidistant from the axis on bearings and there is no displacement.
Interesting. Btw what about Twirl tooth design? Any chance you can make a short video about it, if it is worth it. :)
Thank you
I need to make myself a carriage to fit this guy on my printer. I am trying to get to it soon, but one more project on the burner before that.
@@MirageCI would like to see is there a print difference with different tooth pattern. Will wait for your video patiently. :)
I have a question about LG X and their gear system how do they perform? They also have a new gear system as well. Would think it has any major improvements on the print that you can see? I would love to see what you find.
I have not looked closely at that extruder yet as I am focusing on the design I made from the Bondtech internals.
I used a bearing from laptop Hdd as idler and sawed cdrom liner as a shaft- that setup removed all that z wobble completely and made my prints super smooth , my printer is mingda magician X