Hello Cave Dwellers, while I have your attention we're into the final week of my first Kickstarter at www.kickstarter.com/projects/retroteabreaks/retro-tea-breaks-vol-1-a-book-by-retromancave - Please consider taking a look and if it takes your interest maybe you'd like to back it! Thank you! Neil - RMC
You should buy the one on ebay, take the key you need. Then, clean up the one bought off of ebay, and sell each key for £5, and the rest of the parts for £10-15 each :D
The book looks interesting. I've always like adventure games ever since I played the Crowther and Woods game in the late 70's and early 80's. Speaking of C&W, there is no mention of an interview with either of them in the currently listed contents. Another possible omission is an interview with someone behind the Infocom games. Perhaps that is in the Activision as I think they eventually bought out Infocom. Best of luck with the book campaign.
Have you tried using dental cleaning tablets for cleaning keycaps? I have used them several times in the past and it gets them clean without need for using a brush.
As Neil says, I did indeed use a UV pen to write my name and postcode (I think) to the bottom of the machine, as there was a rather large spike in burglaries in the area I grew up in. I am surprised it has stayed in place after all these years.
This video made me fall asleep twice... not because it was boring, but because the chill music, the lingering pauses, and Neil's incredibly soothing narration was just so relaxing. Was a great way to calm down for a few minutes! And fantastic work on the computer as well.
Ironically, back in the day, I believed I was an Atari fan after evolving from a 2600, to an Atari 8 bit computer. Later, I purchased an Atari 520 STFM in 1988, but within 2 months of ownership, I spent the last of my savings on an Amiga 500 and used it for several years exclusively. So, apparently I was not a fan of Atari or Commodore really, but merely a fan of some amazing Jay Miner creations. To this day, I still celebrate all of these systems, for they were all amazing leaps in technology and innovation.
Atari 8 bit machines; too expensive for me. Anyway I', not aware of a music keyboard for one. i bought my Atari ST after getting my first real synthesizer. the Atari ST was THE machine for making real music on. If it was good enough for Fatboy Slim and countless other musicians it was good enough for me www.coolsmartphone.com/2020/02/03/fatboy-slim-when-hits-were-stored-on-a-floppy-disk-and-created-with-an-atari-st/ Later I got an Amiga 1200 for video titling. Annoying i ended up with that and a genlock but no lead to connect them. they are still in the loft somewhere.
The real irony in all of that, The Commodore Amiga was more reflective of Atari technology, while the Atari ST was more a Commodore machine largely due to Jack Tramiel leaving Commodore and taking quite a lot of Commodore staff with him.
ST and 8 bit were very different animals. Great machines but IMHO lots of people didn't really like that transition. Ironically Amiga and ST are quite close from the specs but yeah, I can see why one would prefer Amiga at the time.
Such an excellent video. So relaxing. The production values just keeps getting better on this channel. He really does know his audience and gives them what they want. Great job.
The Atari 800 XL was my very first computer. It was a hand me down from my father who used it as part of his work and other work-like projects. I have many found memories of that system. Mine had a dot matrix printer and a 5.25 disk drive. I had some game cartridges for it, but I remember slogging away in BASIC to make a few others. Thank you for restoring this one, it looks beautiful!
I used my Atari 800XL to translate manga for years. A nice little joystick cursor driver helped scroll through text while editing scans on an Atari 1040ST. 😉
Yep, the Commodore Amiga had strong Atari roots thanks to the Atari 8-bit line designer, the late, great Jay Miner, and the Atari 1040ST was designed by Commodore engineers who defected from Commodore to Jack Tramiel's just-purchased Atari. A GREAT article about that: Crash And Burn: The Amiga ST Story Tales From The Dork Web #14 thedorkweb.substack.com/p/crash-and-burn-the-amiga-st-story?
That's more the 800 ... 800xl is the improved version from 1983! Btw I don't think the Atari Amiga would have had the same power as the Commodore Amiga. I don't think Gould would let Tramiel use the MOS Chip bakery (which was the real succes behind the C64 and Atari 8bit line as well) for the Amiga chips .
@@erikkarsies4851 By the time the sixteen bit machines were coming out there were other chip foundries who would make ICs to order. Actually an interesting question is who made the ICs for the Atari 8 bits. Acorn used a foundry for the first ARM IC. For the Amiga 1200 Commodore had to get the most complex IC made by HP as MOS couldn't make it.
@@MrDunclUsing a outside foundry for the Archimedes was one of the reasons it was way to expensive and that's why it never has been a succes (complete disaster at that time considering the power machine it was) outside of the UK educational market. The AMIGA 1200 was a fine machine also but could never reproduce the succes of the AMIGA 500 . In fact : the company was loosing money on them. As far as I know off... the atari 8bit chips weren't produced anymore after Tramiel took over. The XE line was merely to sell of enormous amounts of left over stock in a cheap plastic casing. And I'm curious about the these details about the customn chips in the atari 8bit and their history too especially the ANTIC which I've red about that it was derriviated from the MOS 6502. Considering the problems between Tramiel en Gould it would have been unlikely that they could do sometime like that with any MOS chips again. BTW Amiga 1200 launched in 1992 : cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/commodore-sales-modified.png
@@MrDuncl Cheap 16 bit computers in that era (like the Atari ST which was a lot cheaper to produce than the Amiga ) concisted mostly from off the shell parts. Designing own complex ic's was a whole different ball game back then. Especially high performance ones like in the Amiga. It seems you keep ignoring the fact that it should be happening at a competitive cost price. That's why the Archimedes itself was dead on arrival... And a few years later all of them got obsolete by the rapid declining prices of 386 and 486 IBM PC clones. It wasn't cost effective any more to use customn chips. Let alone ordering them at some other company's chip foundry. And with the Amiga 1200 it wasn't because it was cheaper but because their ol' own foundry wasn't capable enough. The meager profit any Amiga version made wasn't reinvested but skimmed off by Gould and his management.
"put on the murder gloves" made me laugh out loud :D I had one of these back in the day with the Atari tape deck (I remember I had to plastic solder repair one of the tape deck keys) with a tiny black & white TV! I later moved on to an Atari ST (520 FM model) and bought myself a colour dot matrix printer - was always slightly jealous of a friends Amiga A500 though - ah those were the days :)
I’m a console gamer but I really enjoy watching your videos. Even cleaning and retrobrighting keeps me interested. I would love to tour the Cave someday.
3D printing a keycap is always an option while you're looking for a new one. It won't look like the original, of course, but will make the machine functional and cover the nasty hole in the keyboard.
One of these was my first computer. I think I was 11 when I got it. I still have it, sadly not set up at the minute due to space limitation. It was my main computer till I got an old PC (IBM XT with whopping 10MB HDD). I think I've still got games and magazines for it too, stored away somewhere in my cupboard. I eventually got a disk drive for it too (1050) and that was a game changer for loading games. I even wrote a bingo machine program for it, for checking numbers for a CB radio club I was a member of at the time. I even got into 6502 assembly at the time too, remember raiding the library for the Sybex reference books on the 6502. Ahh, the 80s, when life was simpler.
I loved this machine. Eventually I had two disk drives in which I installed smart switches with two colour led's. Switch to red and you cannot write to a disk in any way. Switch to green and you can write to any disk, protected or not. I found the circuit in an Atari magazine. Worked perfectly. Still miss that computer.
The '80s were a Golden Age in computing, and other things. If I had a time machine, that's when I would go. As a kid I had stupid ideas about going to the future, but I now know that the future is not all it's cracked up to be. We may not have had Internet or flat-panel TVs in the '80s, but life was better.
It is possible to polish the aluminum keys and have them looking like brand new. Did that to my 800XL and it looks now like a charm. To remove scratches from the transparent plastic part, use the polishing paste for acrylic parts (like car front light). First you have to sand it carefully with a high grit sanding paper, then get it glossy again with the polishing paste...
@@haraldhimmel5687 Preparing the transparent part is not risky, you only had to sand down a little bit, till scratches are not visible anymore. That part is thick enough. There are special kits to remove such scratches and first you have to sand down. The sanding paper should have a very high grit (2000-3000) and polishing must be done with hand, not machine, carefully. Nothing really bad happens here. Sandly I can't put pictures of the process here. Same part is sanding down carefully the metallic/aluminum keys. The process must be done in "wet mode" and also with high grit sand paper first. To get a "brushed aluminum" effect, final strokes in one direction had to be done. Also here, don't use machines, do it by hand...
@@psteier Oh I didn't mean the transparent part. I thought you speak of polishing cracks on the beige surface. Eventually that surface would be flat and shiney (as opposed to grainy).
@@haraldhimmel5687 Oh no, I didn't mean the case with that typical texture. Only the glossy or metal parts... It's also possible to repair case parts with texture by creating a negative imprint with silicone (like a stamp) and covering cracks and deep scratches with epoxid, pressing that "stamp" onto it - so the texture will be back again. But it's a very complicated process (tried this once on my Atari 800XL, which has a massive hole on the top nearby the cartridge port). It worked well, but not perfectly.
@@psteier Hah yeah i know about that method. Some guy on YT did a really great job with it on a totally destroyed 800xl. Still nice if you don't need it though.
Silver keys are from stainless still. You can easily restore their brushed look with magic sponge and scrub horizontally only. I did that on mine 800XL.
I spent so much time playing Star Raiders II. I loved that game! But, if completely forgot about it. The Atari 400/800/XE/XL were such great computers.
If you end up getting a replacement keyboard, try and get a mechanical one, so much better. Even then theres a few types. But none are bad. if your TV/monitor has S-video or luma/chroma inputs, connect it up to the monitor port, its missing on the XL. And remove the cap that makes it blurry.
I recently cleaned my 800xl, very satisfying :) It's now about as clean as yours was before you started lol. I used to work as a croupier and my hands would be filthy after rubbing them on green baize all night, then I'd go on my 800xl and light up a smoke - you can imagine what it looked like before I cleaned it.
I've had mixed results with cream retrobrighting, I had streaks even though I massaged the cream around. I recommend going for the liquid method if possible.
It can certainly be a dangerous game to play. I think I have success in the UK because we don't get the super high temps you get in other parts of the world so it's a slower process that perhaps reduces the risk of streaks with cream if you massage it regularly. Liquid peroxide is certainly a valid, tried and tested method yes. Go for it.
I simply use cream and cling film and put it in the oven at 50 degrees. Easier to control the temperature and even heavy yellowed plastic gets white in about four hours. The sun is not that important, since the film is blocking the uv anyway.
@@falksweden It's not just UV that boosts the whitening power of the peroxide, tho - even visible light gives it a kick, although heat obviously helps as well (and some visible light becomes heat as it warms the surface and gets radiated off in the infrared). Also, plastic doesn't block that much UV, and doesn't block across the entire spectrum, so some is certainly getting thru.
@The Baby Eating Bishop Of Bath And Wells. Yup, I practiced on a two-way wall plug (whatever you call it, english is not my native language) and it turned out...funny. Not that I have anything valuable to retrobrite, old generic pc cases are better dealt with by children with markers, no?
Great Video Neil - for retrobrighting keys (and other smaller bits), I actually put them into a solution of 12% / 40 vol Peroxide into an ovenproof dish with the lid on at 100 degrees (IIRC) and leave it in there for a few of hours and viola! Lovely clean (and not melted) keys!
Absolute fantastic episode! The 800XL is always close to my heart as it was my first computer, the one that put me in the way of being the game developer I'm today, so I'm supper happy at the gorgeous restoration you did here.
You say you can`t wait Neil for part 3 , I can't wait either for part 3 yet another brillient trash to treasure. Sinch watching this channel and others I can`t remember the last time I watched TV lol...
Very interesting, you've saved me a lot of time and expense trying to source hydrogen peroxide. I think a trip to the chemists is in order to get that gel. Weather forecast is looking good at the weekend too. My 600xl will get a bit of TLC. The keyboard in my xl is very different to yours, a transparent membrane with square profile spring retainers for the key caps.
This was my first computer back in the mid eighties when I was 8 years old. I still remember the smell of the fresh plastic when it came out of its box.
Great to see you getting rid of all the crappy dirt before retrobrighting because if you don't the retrobrighting happens "outside" of the dirt and leaves the plastic patchy. A lot of folks think that retrobrighting is cleaning - and it's not (as you know of course)
Wonderful clean up on this fine machine! I had RAM problems on mine, but new chips sorted that right out. Considering the Atari 8 bits came out years before the C64, they are wonderful machines
The design of that computer impresses me. It's still looking modern, such a showpiece. Great job on the restoration! I wish I had your tenacity for cleaning. One of these days, maybe. :) Looking forwards to part 3, with excitement!
OMG so good memories with this computer :) the man did not care about the past, and now he would like to show the child what dad was playing on :) good job.
What a fantastic job Neil! Looks brand new. Lots of nostalgia for me as this was my 1st computer, it was underated and not well supported, here in the UK anyway. Still, there was some great games for it. Looking forward to the next episode, be sure to check out Space Harrier, deffo the best 8-bit version :)
I really love the attention you are giving this computer with the clean-up. Even though I had the 400, 800, and a 130 XE, the XL series was my favorite look for the Atari. I've got a 600XL, 2, maybe 3 800XLs, and 2 1200XLs. A bit excessive, yes. But I know people who have many more than I have. Oh, and I still have my original 400 with an upgraded keyboard and 48K memory.
loving this series .. my old 800XL was my first real computer that had enough ram to really do some programming ...jumped from a free ZX80 to this...the keyboard was so good after the zx80...after 800xl I jumped to an Atari 520 ST - the one with no internal drives just an external floppy.
11:00 Here’s a trick I use with paper-based labels. I did this with the serial number labels for my N64 shells. Get some transparent packing tape, cut a piece to around the right size, plus maybe a few mm on each edge. Use a *sharp* Xacto knife to ride along the edge of the underlying sticker. Don’t worry about cutting all the way through, just score it. That’ll prevent damage to the plastic around the sticker anyway. The tape should tear right off around the sticker like it was laser cut, giving it a nice glossy protective layer. Then you can wash the shell without having to be too careful about water getting on the labels. Water can still penetrate under the tape, so don’t soak it, but it’s not going to happen immediately, and a little around the edges usually dries fine anyway.
this is an invaluable series. I've just picked up a 800XL I bought on ebay and intend to restore it to new. My motherboard has some rust along the larger outside, so (I'm typing this while you're cleaning keys) i look forward to seeing if you have similar issues, and work out the best way to remove that rust.
Wonderful work there. You've made the retrobrighting process exactly as I do: peroxide on cream and using sunlight (I have a lot here). No, I don't think it's the same to submerge the keys into water with peroxide as some keys will be facing down without UV's rays from the light. I think that you have used the best way placing them all facing to the sun.
That name written on the bottom reminds me of something you don't see any more - beige computer hardware with that blue dot-matrix style Selectamark text stencilled onto it - "Property of SomeSchool" or similar melted in with a soldering iron.
The red apron , and gardening absolutely priceless 😂 lol And congratulations on the Kickstarter project !! Maybe you can don the apron again and perhaps we will see some baking inbetween soldering sessions...😁
Beautiful restoration! However, was it wise to use sandpaper on the shielding? I'm thinking it is perhaps electroplated and therefore you may have lost some protection. Which could cause accelerated rusting in the future.
Turned out great. To me its the way to do a restoration: clean it up, retrobright without losing some of the little quirks. srapes and dings to show its age. Brilliant job Neil! And...a well done video, seems I always forget to mention the quality of the video and just mention the work done on the machines.
Thanks for the video, now I am also renovating my 800 xl :-) Just only cleaning, it is not yellowed so much. While removing keys, I wonder there was two springs under the reset key - there was standart conical and then another big one, which was only there. Maybe for make harder to push reset? Space key had another non standard spring, but only one - there was other place for second one, maybe somebody lost it. BTW what did you with silver Atari logo before? Was it difficult to peel it off?
The 1200XL was really beautiful, I thought. The cut-down 800 and 600XLs didn't look as nice, and the cart slot smack in the middle of the top was ugly - I wish at least for the 800XL they'd kept the cart slot on the side. I'm not even sure why they bothered with the 600XL. They never sold many and it would have been better if they'd devoted all of their resources to just the 800XL. What I really wish they'd done is kept a case with the dimensions of the 1200XL but slapped a drive into it on one side, a la the Apple //c. With that footprint there would have been plenty of space for the controller circuitry on the motherboard. I think it would have allowed them to move a system with a main computer and a disk drive for less money than the Commodore 64 and its separate drive, which would have been a huge competitive advantage in America, where the systems were usually bundled with the drive anyhow.
The niceness about these old things is that if you have screws going around a frame they're usually the same size, so you can bag the frame screws, the cartridge slot screws, etc in their own bag, compared to a MacBook of today where there are like 4 different lengths, 2 or 3 different Tx head sizes, and so much more fudgery just to get the bottom cover and the battery frame off. Bless people that can remember where each of those goes, it's a nightmare.
I can imagine a "Pedal Bin to Patina" series - "So I found this C64 in my local tip covered in poo. Let's just rinse it off with a hose, dry it in the sun... good enough!"
@@RMCRetro It's actually how I treat most of my stuff so far. Just some superficial cleanup until I finally develop the skills to restore them properly.
@@RMCRetro well I have had my eye on a machine in a pile of donations to the museum for a while. It's taped up in one of those black vinyl travel cases but the side has fallen off. I can only see the side of the computer and there's loads of suspiciously brown muck covering it. The ironic thing is, I think it's an Atari 800! It's like I must be sending out mental signals, either that or we think too similarly! (Checks room for bugs)
There's a chance that used to be my 800xl I sold back in the 90s! Looks like my writing! I still got a good Atari 8 bit collection that I'm glad I kept. Such a brilliant ahead of it's time computer . Very nice restoration. I have a few here that could do with this kind of treatment!
This work reminds me of the cleaning process i do for my (original, no Lexmark) IBM Model M! Its a pain, but in the end, i love the clean keyboard. This original Model M just feels right.
I think the real secret about retrobrighting is the location. That would be the driveway for as far as I found on RUclips😂 Your firm! Compliments, I like these sort of restoration videos (besides other tinkering). Thumbs up for this one!
I can imagine having the larger spring under the reset key was to prevent accidental resets. I remember occasions waiting 45 for a tape to load and then going cold from tapping the reset. IF I remember right though you have to hold it down or a second or two.
I have an Atari st and Spectrum +2a that need the keyboards cleaning and I am putting it off as I really do not like that part of the restores.It just takes so much time !
For the rust on the shield, take a look a "Odd Tinkering" and how he uses MC-51 (a Great British product) and nickel plating to restore old metals. A RetroManCave electroplating bath could be a bit of fun.
I watch that channel as well.......maybe neil could also do his own version of the UV bath with Hydrogen Peroxide to retrobright as i also have to endure random UK weather here in Bournemouth
Yes, the chrome-like parts-the cartridge port and function keys-came with a clear plastic film. I actually left mine on for years. Eventually, my mother threw my 800XL away to make room in her attic, but it's entirely possible that the plastic film was still on there at the time. Also, I could be misremembering, but I remember the labels on the keys as being slightly yellow, not white.
Excellent video. Wish you listed some of the products you used to clean with (so I can see if I can get them stateside). I know I can get the ISP ( assume that is isopropyl alcohol). The cream to whiten the case is what I am interested in. I have my original CX800 I got when I was 12 (~1980), and an 800XL I picked up in a pawn shop in Texas while in the army (1988), plus the CX40 cassette, and the XF551 floppy drive (all works - last booted 2 years ago and still setup in the back side of my home office). I collect Atari stuff, when I have time and spare $$. I also have 2 working 1040ST systems (one I bought when I was 17 and worked at a local computer store), one for parts, 3 ST monitors, and a box of upgrade kits I haven't really looked through (got it all at a flea market). I also have a working 2600, 7800, Jaguar (no CD though), and recently, my son gave me an authentic ET game cartridge recovered from the famous New Mexico landfill digital archaeology site (haven't tested it though).
11:35 Ah, yes that plastic film is what I remember the most about my Atari 800XL. We were such noobs back then, that we actually never removed it and every time we pulled a cartridge out and those little doors shut, the plastic edges rubbed together to create a satisfying sizzling sound. We treated this thing like a holy item. Don't poke it, don't scratch it, no sudden movements, don't even stare at it too hard. Haha!
![Kodak Black - Versatile 4 [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VcP_1Ua__vY/mqdefault.jpg)
Hello Cave Dwellers, while I have your attention we're into the final week of my first Kickstarter at www.kickstarter.com/projects/retroteabreaks/retro-tea-breaks-vol-1-a-book-by-retromancave - Please consider taking a look and if it takes your interest maybe you'd like to back it!
Thank you!
Neil - RMC
Looks like there are two available on ebay right now, keyboards that is, but, they are in the states and cost in the region of £50.
You should buy the one on ebay, take the key you need. Then, clean up the one bought off of ebay, and sell each key for £5, and the rest of the parts for £10-15 each :D
Wrt the metal shields, you can electroplate those at home.
The book looks interesting. I've always like adventure games ever since I played the Crowther and Woods game in the late 70's and early 80's. Speaking of C&W, there is no mention of an interview with either of them in the currently listed contents. Another possible omission is an interview with someone behind the Infocom games. Perhaps that is in the Activision as I think they eventually bought out Infocom. Best of luck with the book campaign.
Have you tried using dental cleaning tablets for cleaning keycaps? I have used them several times in the past and it gets them clean without need for using a brush.
As Neil says, I did indeed use a UV pen to write my name and postcode (I think) to the bottom of the machine, as there was a rather large spike in burglaries in the area I grew up in. I am surprised it has stayed in place after all these years.
Thankyou for the donation Mark, it enabled Neil to make in my view the best T2T series on his channel.
This video made me fall asleep twice... not because it was boring, but because the chill music, the lingering pauses, and Neil's incredibly soothing narration was just so relaxing. Was a great way to calm down for a few minutes! And fantastic work on the computer as well.
Ironically, back in the day, I believed I was an Atari fan after evolving from a 2600, to an Atari 8 bit computer. Later, I purchased an Atari 520 STFM in 1988, but within 2 months of ownership, I spent the last of my savings on an Amiga 500 and used it for several years exclusively. So, apparently I was not a fan of Atari or Commodore really, but merely a fan of some amazing Jay Miner creations. To this day, I still celebrate all of these systems, for they were all amazing leaps in technology and innovation.
Atari 8 bit machines; too expensive for me. Anyway I', not aware of a music keyboard for one. i bought my Atari ST after getting my first real synthesizer. the Atari ST was THE machine for making real music on. If it was good enough for Fatboy Slim and countless other musicians it was good enough for me www.coolsmartphone.com/2020/02/03/fatboy-slim-when-hits-were-stored-on-a-floppy-disk-and-created-with-an-atari-st/ Later I got an Amiga 1200 for video titling. Annoying i ended up with that and a genlock but no lead to connect them. they are still in the loft somewhere.
The real irony in all of that, The Commodore Amiga was more reflective of Atari technology, while the Atari ST was more a Commodore machine largely due to Jack Tramiel leaving Commodore and taking quite a lot of Commodore staff with him.
@@GeoNeilUK I believe before Tramiel bought Atari, the Amiga hardware was slated to become the Atari 1650XL, so you are correct.
ST and 8 bit were very different animals. Great machines but IMHO lots of people didn't really like that transition. Ironically Amiga and ST are quite close from the specs but yeah, I can see why one would prefer Amiga at the time.
Atari ST excelled on MIDI so synths loved Atari, Amiga 500 screen caught Andy Warhol's interest.
Such an excellent video. So relaxing. The production values just keeps getting better on this channel. He really does know his audience and gives them what they want. Great job.
Thank you Bill!
The Atari 800 XL was my very first computer. It was a hand me down from my father who used it as part of his work and other work-like projects. I have many found memories of that system. Mine had a dot matrix printer and a 5.25 disk drive. I had some game cartridges for it, but I remember slogging away in BASIC to make a few others. Thank you for restoring this one, it looks beautiful!
I used my Atari 800XL to translate manga for years. A nice little joystick cursor driver helped scroll through text while editing scans on an Atari 1040ST. 😉
That sounds fascinating. How was that set up? And when? I honestly thought scanlation was something from the late 90's at the earliest!
@@MadCatmkII I assumed he meant professional translations.
The Amiga's grandfather, had most of the C64 features in 1979🙂
Yep, the Commodore Amiga had strong Atari roots thanks to the Atari 8-bit line designer, the late, great Jay Miner, and the Atari 1040ST was designed by Commodore engineers who defected from Commodore to Jack Tramiel's just-purchased Atari. A GREAT article about that:
Crash And Burn: The Amiga ST Story
Tales From The Dork Web #14
thedorkweb.substack.com/p/crash-and-burn-the-amiga-st-story?
That's more the 800 ... 800xl is the improved version from 1983!
Btw I don't think the Atari Amiga would have had the same power as the Commodore Amiga. I don't think Gould would let Tramiel use the MOS Chip bakery (which was the real succes behind the C64 and Atari 8bit line as well) for the Amiga chips .
@@erikkarsies4851 By the time the sixteen bit machines were coming out there were other chip foundries who would make ICs to order. Actually an interesting question is who made the ICs for the Atari 8 bits. Acorn used a foundry for the first ARM IC. For the Amiga 1200 Commodore had to get the most complex IC made by HP as MOS couldn't make it.
@@MrDunclUsing a outside foundry for the Archimedes was one of the reasons it was way to expensive and that's why it never has been a succes (complete disaster at that time considering the power machine it was) outside of the UK educational market. The AMIGA 1200 was a fine machine also but could never reproduce the succes of the AMIGA 500 . In fact : the company was loosing money on them.
As far as I know off... the atari 8bit chips weren't produced anymore after Tramiel took over. The XE line was merely to sell of enormous amounts of left over stock in a cheap plastic casing.
And I'm curious about the these details about the customn chips in the atari 8bit and their history too especially the ANTIC which I've red about that it was derriviated from the MOS 6502. Considering the problems between Tramiel en Gould it would have been unlikely that they could do sometime like that with any MOS chips again.
BTW Amiga 1200 launched in 1992 :
cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/commodore-sales-modified.png
@@MrDuncl Cheap 16 bit computers in that era (like the Atari ST which was a lot cheaper to produce than the Amiga ) concisted mostly from off the shell parts. Designing own complex ic's was a whole different ball game back then. Especially high performance ones like in the Amiga.
It seems you keep ignoring the fact that it should be happening at a competitive cost price. That's why the Archimedes itself was dead on arrival... And a few years later all of them got obsolete by the rapid declining prices of 386 and 486 IBM PC clones.
It wasn't cost effective any more to use customn chips. Let alone ordering them at some other company's chip foundry. And with the Amiga 1200 it wasn't because it was cheaper but because their ol' own foundry wasn't capable enough. The meager profit any Amiga version made wasn't reinvested but skimmed off by Gould and his management.
"Doing anything fun tonight?"
"Oh yeah, watching a guy rub plastic for half an hour"
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
I Polished my BILLY BASS the talking fish lol
love the channel
"put on the murder gloves" made me laugh out loud :D
I had one of these back in the day with the Atari tape deck (I remember I had to plastic solder repair one of the tape deck keys) with a tiny black & white TV! I later moved on to an Atari ST (520 FM model) and bought myself a colour dot matrix printer - was always slightly jealous of a friends Amiga A500 though - ah those were the days :)
Yep we had that Atari 1010 tape deck that matched the system and the buttons were always breaking.
Neil, thank you, the 800XL looks fantastic - this has made my day!!! Thank you.
"Pedal bin to Patina" Hah! Beautiful turn of phrase, sir!
I’m a console gamer but I really enjoy watching your videos. Even cleaning and retrobrighting keeps me interested. I would love to tour the Cave someday.
3D printing a keycap is always an option while you're looking for a new one. It won't look like the original, of course, but will make the machine functional and cover the nasty hole in the keyboard.
One of these was my first computer. I think I was 11 when I got it. I still have it, sadly not set up at the minute due to space limitation. It was my main computer till I got an old PC (IBM XT with whopping 10MB HDD).
I think I've still got games and magazines for it too, stored away somewhere in my cupboard.
I eventually got a disk drive for it too (1050) and that was a game changer for loading games.
I even wrote a bingo machine program for it, for checking numbers for a CB radio club I was a member of at the time.
I even got into 6502 assembly at the time too, remember raiding the library for the Sybex reference books on the 6502. Ahh, the 80s, when life was simpler.
I loved this machine. Eventually I had two disk drives in which I installed smart switches with two colour led's. Switch to red and you cannot write to a disk in any way. Switch to green and you can write to any disk, protected or not. I found the circuit in an Atari magazine. Worked perfectly. Still miss that computer.
The '80s were a Golden Age in computing, and other things. If I had a time machine, that's when I would go. As a kid I had stupid ideas about going to the future, but I now know that the future is not all it's cracked up to be. We may not have had Internet or flat-panel TVs in the '80s, but life was better.
The level of effort and workmanship really are impressive. Final product is amazing.
It is possible to polish the aluminum keys and have them looking like brand new. Did that to my 800XL and it looks now like a charm. To remove scratches from the transparent plastic part, use the polishing paste for acrylic parts (like car front light). First you have to sand it carefully with a high grit sanding paper, then get it glossy again with the polishing paste...
If you polish the plastic too much the characteristing graining might eventually be gone but sure a lot is possible.
@@haraldhimmel5687 Preparing the transparent part is not risky, you only had to sand down a little bit, till scratches are not visible anymore. That part is thick enough. There are special kits to remove such scratches and first you have to sand down. The sanding paper should have a very high grit (2000-3000) and polishing must be done with hand, not machine, carefully. Nothing really bad happens here. Sandly I can't put pictures of the process here.
Same part is sanding down carefully the metallic/aluminum keys. The process must be done in "wet mode" and also with high grit sand paper first. To get a "brushed aluminum" effect, final strokes in one direction had to be done. Also here, don't use machines, do it by hand...
@@psteier Oh I didn't mean the transparent part. I thought you speak of polishing cracks on the beige surface. Eventually that surface would be flat and shiney (as opposed to grainy).
@@haraldhimmel5687 Oh no, I didn't mean the case with that typical texture. Only the glossy or metal parts...
It's also possible to repair case parts with texture by creating a negative imprint with silicone (like a stamp) and covering cracks and deep scratches with epoxid, pressing that "stamp" onto it - so the texture will be back again. But it's a very complicated process (tried this once on my Atari 800XL, which has a massive hole on the top nearby the cartridge port). It worked well, but not perfectly.
@@psteier Hah yeah i know about that method. Some guy on YT did a really great job with it on a totally destroyed 800xl. Still nice if you don't need it though.
Silver keys are from stainless still. You can easily restore their brushed look with magic sponge and scrub horizontally only. I did that on mine 800XL.
Having the metal bits made the whole thing feel more 'premium' to me, plus you got to peel them when you first unboxed it!
That's a shame the keyboard is not one of the earlier alps variants. Those are amazing keyboards.
I know it's not great but this machine will always have a special place in my heart. The music, graphics and mystic 👌
The thumbnail looks like one of those tv ads trying to sell you kitchen knifes and pots
BUT WAIT
THERE'S MORE!
@@RMCRetro Not £40! Not £30! Not £20! For just £14 this can be yours.
Wow! This was a real personal episode for me and the machine came out beautifully. Well done. Thanks Neil.
I spent so much time playing Star Raiders II. I loved that game! But, if completely forgot about it. The Atari 400/800/XE/XL were such great computers.
If you end up getting a replacement keyboard, try and get a mechanical one, so much better. Even then theres a few types. But none are bad.
if your TV/monitor has S-video or luma/chroma inputs, connect it up to the monitor port, its missing on the XL. And remove the cap that makes it blurry.
Always loved the Atari 8-bit. Thank you!
you're a brave man retrobriting those brown keys. i tried that with a breadbin c64 and completely ruined the keys!
I recently cleaned my 800xl, very satisfying :) It's now about as clean as yours was before you started lol. I used to work as a croupier and my hands would be filthy after rubbing them on green baize all night, then I'd go on my 800xl and light up a smoke - you can imagine what it looked like before I cleaned it.
I've had mixed results with cream retrobrighting, I had streaks even though I massaged the cream around. I recommend going for the liquid method if possible.
It can certainly be a dangerous game to play. I think I have success in the UK because we don't get the super high temps you get in other parts of the world so it's a slower process that perhaps reduces the risk of streaks with cream if you massage it regularly. Liquid peroxide is certainly a valid, tried and tested method yes. Go for it.
I simply use cream and cling film and put it in the oven at 50 degrees. Easier to control the temperature and even heavy yellowed plastic gets white in about four hours. The sun is not that important, since the film is blocking the uv anyway.
@@falksweden It's not just UV that boosts the whitening power of the peroxide, tho - even visible light gives it a kick, although heat obviously helps as well (and some visible light becomes heat as it warms the surface and gets radiated off in the infrared). Also, plastic doesn't block that much UV, and doesn't block across the entire spectrum, so some is certainly getting thru.
My favorate Atari 8-bit, the Atari never gets enough love...
When you put on the gloves at 2:18 my head went: I'VE GOT THE POOOOWWEEEERR!
You can show the outdoors more times. I like it!
Oh man! Does that ever bring back memories! I think I programed Joust on that model. Love your videos.
Is this Pete Gaston? :)
You programmed the port of Atari Joust?! I LOVED that game as a child, one of my all time favorites. The damn hawk! :-)
"Keyboard gravy" - love it!!
Inspired me to go and give retrobright a go myself now!
@The Baby Eating Bishop Of Bath And Wells. Yup, I practiced on a two-way wall plug (whatever you call it, english is not my native language) and it turned out...funny.
Not that I have anything valuable to retrobrite, old generic pc cases are better dealt with by children with markers, no?
Great Video Neil - for retrobrighting keys (and other smaller bits), I actually put them into a solution of 12% / 40 vol Peroxide into an ovenproof dish with the lid on at 100 degrees (IIRC) and leave it in there for a few of hours and viola! Lovely clean (and not melted) keys!
I like seeing the Atari 800XL cleaned up and I am hopeful that it will be fully functional.
Such a great machine, my very first real computer back in 84. So long, my friend.
The best cleaning montages money can buy. Spared no expense!
Absolute fantastic episode! The 800XL is always close to my heart as it was my first computer, the one that put me in the way of being the game developer I'm today, so I'm supper happy at the gorgeous restoration you did here.
Very good. One of the best presented and produced channels on here.
I done this 10 years ago, never thought 10 years later it would be something a lot of people likes watching on youtube :D
You say you can`t wait Neil for part 3 , I can't wait either for part 3 yet another brillient trash to treasure. Sinch watching this channel and others I can`t remember the last time I watched TV lol...
The yellow gradient is a feature. It helps you know which way around to put it on your desk. These things were for beginners, remember.
Very interesting, you've saved me a lot of time and expense trying to source hydrogen peroxide. I think a trip to the chemists is in order to get that gel. Weather forecast is looking good at the weekend too. My 600xl will get a bit of TLC. The keyboard in my xl is very different to yours, a transparent membrane with square profile spring retainers for the key caps.
This was my first computer back in the mid eighties when I was 8 years old. I still remember the smell of the fresh plastic when it came out of its box.
Some very useful nature subtitles there, thanks Neil!
Wow it scrubbed up well! Impressed with that retrobrite outcome. Cracking job as always Neil
Great to see you getting rid of all the crappy dirt before retrobrighting because if you don't the retrobrighting happens "outside" of the dirt and leaves the plastic patchy. A lot of folks think that retrobrighting is cleaning - and it's not (as you know of course)
Wonderful clean up on this fine machine! I had RAM problems on mine, but new chips sorted that right out. Considering the Atari 8 bits came out years before the C64, they are wonderful machines
The design of that computer impresses me. It's still looking modern, such a showpiece.
Great job on the restoration! I wish I had your tenacity for cleaning. One of these days, maybe. :)
Looking forwards to part 3, with excitement!
OMG so good memories with this computer :) the man did not care about the past, and now he would like to show the child what dad was playing on :) good job.
Another beautiful restoration. Job well done Neil!
What a fantastic job Neil! Looks brand new. Lots of nostalgia for me as this was my 1st computer, it was underated and not well supported, here in the UK anyway. Still, there was some great games for it. Looking forward to the next episode, be sure to check out Space Harrier, deffo the best 8-bit version :)
I'm fascinated by these videos. So enjoy them even if I didnt have the system u bringing back to life. Keep them coming Neil
6:56 come for the Atari surgery, stay for the dark house beats
A wonderful restoration of an absolute classic :)
I really love the attention you are giving this computer with the clean-up. Even though I had the 400, 800, and a 130 XE, the XL series was my favorite look for the Atari. I've got a 600XL, 2, maybe 3 800XLs, and 2 1200XLs. A bit excessive, yes. But I know people who have many more than I have. Oh, and I still have my original 400 with an upgraded keyboard and 48K memory.
loving this series .. my old 800XL was my first real computer that had enough ram to really do some programming ...jumped from a free ZX80 to this...the keyboard was so good after the zx80...after 800xl I jumped to an Atari 520 ST - the one with no internal drives just an external floppy.
11:00 Here’s a trick I use with paper-based labels. I did this with the serial number labels for my N64 shells.
Get some transparent packing tape, cut a piece to around the right size, plus maybe a few mm on each edge. Use a *sharp* Xacto knife to ride along the edge of the underlying sticker. Don’t worry about cutting all the way through, just score it. That’ll prevent damage to the plastic around the sticker anyway.
The tape should tear right off around the sticker like it was laser cut, giving it a nice glossy protective layer. Then you can wash the shell without having to be too careful about water getting on the labels.
Water can still penetrate under the tape, so don’t soak it, but it’s not going to happen immediately, and a little around the edges usually dries fine anyway.
this is an invaluable series. I've just picked up a 800XL I bought on ebay and intend to restore it to new. My motherboard has some rust along the larger outside, so (I'm typing this while you're cleaning keys) i look forward to seeing if you have similar issues, and work out the best way to remove that rust.
We need to give Neil a break.
Wonderful work there. You've made the retrobrighting process exactly as I do: peroxide on cream and using sunlight (I have a lot here). No, I don't think it's the same to submerge the keys into water with peroxide as some keys will be facing down without UV's rays from the light. I think that you have used the best way placing them all facing to the sun.
That name written on the bottom reminds me of something you don't see any more - beige computer hardware with that blue dot-matrix style Selectamark text stencilled onto it - "Property of SomeSchool" or similar melted in with a soldering iron.
No idea why - but the cleaning episodes are my favourites.
The red apron , and gardening absolutely priceless 😂 lol
And congratulations on the Kickstarter project !!
Maybe you can don the apron again and perhaps we will see some baking inbetween soldering sessions...😁
Beautiful restoration! However, was it wise to use sandpaper on the shielding? I'm thinking it is perhaps electroplated and therefore you may have lost some protection. Which could cause accelerated rusting in the future.
Turned out great. To me its the way to do a restoration: clean it up, retrobright without losing some of the little quirks. srapes and dings to show its age. Brilliant job Neil!
And...a well done video, seems I always forget to mention the quality of the video and just mention the work done on the machines.
Thank you Jef
Thanks for the video, now I am also renovating my 800 xl :-) Just only cleaning, it is not yellowed so much. While removing keys, I wonder there was two springs under the reset key - there was standart conical and then another big one, which was only there. Maybe for make harder to push reset? Space key had another non standard spring, but only one - there was other place for second one, maybe somebody lost it. BTW what did you with silver Atari logo before? Was it difficult to peel it off?
Fantastic job. Love how well it turned out - extremely satisfying to watch!
Gradient of Yellowing - Live at Retropalooza 2021!
caught a few of your vids in my suggestions, glad I made it here lol ^^
That's exactly the same cream I use for retrobriting. It's cheap, easy to find, and it sticks to the sides nicely.
This was great Neil. Well done. Next step... can you trace the original owner Mark... ?
Excellent job it’s looking much better now👍.
Great video. I have a 600XL and 800XL, interestingly both have got the small break key. Both of mine were made in Hong Kong.
The design on that whole range is so nice.
The 1200XL was really beautiful, I thought. The cut-down 800 and 600XLs didn't look as nice, and the cart slot smack in the middle of the top was ugly - I wish at least for the 800XL they'd kept the cart slot on the side. I'm not even sure why they bothered with the 600XL. They never sold many and it would have been better if they'd devoted all of their resources to just the 800XL.
What I really wish they'd done is kept a case with the dimensions of the 1200XL but slapped a drive into it on one side, a la the Apple //c. With that footprint there would have been plenty of space for the controller circuitry on the motherboard. I think it would have allowed them to move a system with a main computer and a disk drive for less money than the Commodore 64 and its separate drive, which would have been a huge competitive advantage in America, where the systems were usually bundled with the drive anyhow.
Great job Neil. I remember playing games and trying basic language on those things, and then I got my first Amiga, the mighty 500... :-)
fantastic restoration mate well done
I SPACED out during the keyboard cleaning. I couldn't CTL myself, I just couldn't ESC.
I'm glad you had a BREAK, and hope you can now RETURN.
@@andrewgwilliam4831 just have a nice cool TAB and SHIFT gears.
Dad joke *100*
The niceness about these old things is that if you have screws going around a frame they're usually the same size, so you can bag the frame screws, the cartridge slot screws, etc in their own bag, compared to a MacBook of today where there are like 4 different lengths, 2 or 3 different Tx head sizes, and so much more fudgery just to get the bottom cover and the battery frame off.
Bless people that can remember where each of those goes, it's a nightmare.
I can imagine a "Pedal Bin to Patina" series - "So I found this C64 in my local tip covered in poo. Let's just rinse it off with a hose, dry it in the sun... good enough!"
I think that @TheDigitalOrphanage would be the perfect host for this series. What do you say Keith?
@@RMCRetro It's actually how I treat most of my stuff so far. Just some superficial cleanup until I finally develop the skills to restore them properly.
@@RMCRetro well I have had my eye on a machine in a pile of donations to the museum for a while. It's taped up in one of those black vinyl travel cases but the side has fallen off. I can only see the side of the computer and there's loads of suspiciously brown muck covering it. The ironic thing is, I think it's an Atari 800! It's like I must be sending out mental signals, either that or we think too similarly! (Checks room for bugs)
There's a chance that used to be my 800xl I sold back in the 90s! Looks like my writing! I still got a good Atari 8 bit collection that I'm glad I kept. Such a brilliant ahead of it's time computer .
Very nice restoration. I have a few here that could do with this kind of treatment!
This work reminds me of the cleaning process i do for my (original, no Lexmark) IBM Model M! Its a pain, but in the end, i love the clean keyboard. This original Model M just feels right.
I think the real secret about retrobrighting is the location. That would be the driveway for as far as I found on RUclips😂 Your firm! Compliments, I like these sort of restoration videos (besides other tinkering). Thumbs up for this one!
I can imagine having the larger spring under the reset key was to prevent accidental resets. I remember occasions waiting 45 for a tape to load and then going cold from tapping the reset. IF I remember right though you have to hold it down or a second or two.
I have an Atari st and Spectrum +2a that need the keyboards cleaning and I am putting it off as I really do not like that part of the restores.It just takes so much time !
Music - always on point.
Thumbnail looks like you work in B&Q
Love these refurb series! Top work👌🏼
seeing that 800xl transports me back to 1984ish
I had a go on one of these on Friday.. very interesting machine!
For the rust on the shield, take a look a "Odd Tinkering" and how he uses MC-51 (a Great British product) and nickel plating to restore old metals.
A RetroManCave electroplating bath could be a bit of fun.
I watch that channel as well.......maybe neil could also do his own version of the UV bath with Hydrogen Peroxide to retrobright as i also have to endure random UK weather here in Bournemouth
Yes, the chrome-like parts-the cartridge port and function keys-came with a clear plastic film. I actually left mine on for years. Eventually, my mother threw my 800XL away to make room in her attic, but it's entirely possible that the plastic film was still on there at the time.
Also, I could be misremembering, but I remember the labels on the keys as being slightly yellow, not white.
16:23 Love the outdoors b-roll :)
Excellent video. Wish you listed some of the products you used to clean with (so I can see if I can get them stateside). I know I can get the ISP ( assume that is isopropyl alcohol). The cream to whiten the case is what I am interested in. I have my original CX800 I got when I was 12 (~1980), and an 800XL I picked up in a pawn shop in Texas while in the army (1988), plus the CX40 cassette, and the XF551 floppy drive (all works - last booted 2 years ago and still setup in the back side of my home office).
I collect Atari stuff, when I have time and spare $$. I also have 2 working 1040ST systems (one I bought when I was 17 and worked at a local computer store), one for parts, 3 ST monitors, and a box of upgrade kits I haven't really looked through (got it all at a flea market). I also have a working 2600, 7800, Jaguar (no CD though), and recently, my son gave me an authentic ET game cartridge recovered from the famous New Mexico landfill digital archaeology site (haven't tested it though).
Have you given Best Electronics in California an email about the missing cap? They probably have a replacement kit. Email and ask.
11:35 Ah, yes that plastic film is what I remember the most about my Atari 800XL. We were such noobs back then, that we actually never removed it and every time we pulled a cartridge out and those little doors shut, the plastic edges rubbed together to create a satisfying sizzling sound. We treated this thing like a holy item. Don't poke it, don't scratch it, no sudden movements, don't even stare at it too hard. Haha!
Much more of a dancehall style to the music for this video :D
It's rainy in our city, i miss the sunny days! =( Impressive result that plastic shine like new. =)
Loved the wee shot of Dunnocks (I think) in the hedge haha
Good job -- looks great. I bet it looks good in that Tahitian sun you showed us where the cave ACTUALLY is ;)