"when building complex forms with dynamic validation and conditional fields, we found ourselves writing convoluted server-side logic to handle what would be straightforward client-side operations in React" Ummm ... okay but presumably these would also be straightforward client-side interactions in Vanilla JS or Preact or Alpine or whatever. Just because you're using HTMX doesn't mean you're forbidden from writing any JavaScript and have to find cursed ways of turning every standard bit of client-side interactivity into a backend request.
Great content as always Josh, Regards the part where you talked about 9:50 server-side interaction and mutations and live updates I'm facing the same problem I'm coming from a heavy client-side background too, and still can't wrap my head around how to implement this server-side how to make server-side mutation and live UI updates, for example, a table listing items I want after delete or add action the new added or deleted item gives a live update for whatever it's called (Mutation or Re-validation) Any resources or recommendation can you point Thanks.
I don't understand this trend to hate javascript. It's a part of every possible stack. Choose what you like, stop hating! We have many tools, choose widely. There is no right path, there is personal preferences! You have to glue backend with front end interactions, and style em. It's Crud operations at the end. People stop this useless war please. I don't see many people hating laravel for how things build and working, because it's scale very well, so js frameworks (❤ vue) scales as well. So you don't wanna reinvent wheel as people saying, make clear and coincise chooses before you project starts. What work for you doesn't mean work for everybody. Stop listening a lot of third party opinions and start thinking. ❤
I mean, you really don't understand why? Yes, if it's people being mean or whatnot, then it's not cool. But it's understandable that devs are starting to reject JavaScript frameworks, since it has become an overcomplex ecosystem. I haven't been around for that long in the ecosystem and I can clearly see why the "hate" (or more vocal criticism of it to put it more correctly).
@@emanuelturis4132 honestly im pretty new kid on the block. But we tend to exaggerate sometime. The trend is to compare sane laravel ecosystem in front of 100 js frameworks for Auth etc.. At this point yes. I agree. But when it's come to ui.. There some problems with initial planning. You have to deliver a product, and at this particular moment you can choose. Livewire + alpine js seems promessi g at the begging because of its ease to integrate. But when it's comes to really functional components I don't see particular love for vue wich solves a lot of hassle. It's ssr, it's wonderfully integrates with laravel. Why don't keep evolving vue around laravel? I'm not familiar with react and do not understand all the niche of libraries. But from my personal experience less you depend on third party.. Better you go. Thank you for your response btw
"when building complex forms with dynamic validation and conditional fields, we found ourselves writing convoluted server-side logic to handle what would be straightforward client-side operations in React"
Ummm ... okay but presumably these would also be straightforward client-side interactions in Vanilla JS or Preact or Alpine or whatever. Just because you're using HTMX doesn't mean you're forbidden from writing any JavaScript and have to find cursed ways of turning every standard bit of client-side interactivity into a backend request.
That would be my question as well. There are a plethora of great JavaScript form libraries too! :)
it's not becuase we receive a new lib every single week, that we should adopt it
The grass is always greener on the other-side
Great content as always Josh, Regards the part where you talked about 9:50 server-side interaction and mutations and live updates I'm facing the same problem I'm coming from a heavy client-side background too, and still can't wrap my head around how to implement this server-side how to make server-side mutation and live UI updates, for example, a table listing items I want after delete or add action the new added or deleted item gives a live update for whatever it's called (Mutation or Re-validation)
Any resources or recommendation can you point
Thanks.
I don't understand this trend to hate javascript. It's a part of every possible stack. Choose what you like, stop hating! We have many tools, choose widely. There is no right path, there is personal preferences! You have to glue backend with front end interactions, and style em. It's Crud operations at the end. People stop this useless war please. I don't see many people hating laravel for how things build and working, because it's scale very well, so js frameworks (❤ vue) scales as well. So you don't wanna reinvent wheel as people saying, make clear and coincise chooses before you project starts. What work for you doesn't mean work for everybody. Stop listening a lot of third party opinions and start thinking. ❤
I mean, you really don't understand why? Yes, if it's people being mean or whatnot, then it's not cool. But it's understandable that devs are starting to reject JavaScript frameworks, since it has become an overcomplex ecosystem. I haven't been around for that long in the ecosystem and I can clearly see why the "hate" (or more vocal criticism of it to put it more correctly).
@@emanuelturis4132 honestly im pretty new kid on the block. But we tend to exaggerate sometime. The trend is to compare sane laravel ecosystem in front of 100 js frameworks for Auth etc.. At this point yes. I agree. But when it's come to ui.. There some problems with initial planning. You have to deliver a product, and at this particular moment you can choose. Livewire + alpine js seems promessi g at the begging because of its ease to integrate. But when it's comes to really functional components I don't see particular love for vue wich solves a lot of hassle. It's ssr, it's wonderfully integrates with laravel. Why don't keep evolving vue around laravel? I'm not familiar with react and do not understand all the niche of libraries.
But from my personal experience less you depend on third party.. Better you go. Thank you for your response btw
10:04 or in the URL (search filters and the like)
Livewire struggles with nested recursive components it's not truely components based
Ew javascript
i am a blade + vanilla js person now.... 🤣 but i keep jumping around to livewire / htmx / vue depending on needs