Hjerrick I'd like to know the comparative length of the weapons and height of the combatants. If the small sword practitioner has a reach advantage, then a counter-attacking strategy isn't a bad one.
AlwaysAmazingSlyWit A counter attack focused strategy may well be his best option, but is it not usually a good idea to give your opponent a target that is more difficult to hit, ie. a moving one?
Hjerrick There is always a balance. Fighting is a lot like action-chess with no one clear answer other than play-your-opponent. For example, maybe you want to present a clear, easy opening, hopping to draw the opponent into a predictable attack to block and counter. As a general rule, yeah. Movement is essential.
In a fight between these two weapons I would expect the saber to be much more passive. He has the much, much slower weapon. Until he can draw the smallsworder into an attack or engagement he is very likely to die even should his inital attack carry through simply because of the ability of the small sword fighter ro respond so quickly. Once he can get that engagement with the others blade his heavier one will give him the advantage in binding and controlling it allowing him to safely kill his opponent.
Would I be right in thinking that the sabreur isn't being active enough? Looks to me like his weight is quite far back and he seems to be trying to wait for the smallsword fencer to lunge and make a counterattack rather than going on the offensive himself.
rahadian panji oki I wonder how heavily right handed HEMA is designed, I know that there are several right handed boxers who purposely trained to fight southpaw because of this edge and I wonder if any surviving treatises cover this phenomenon for dueling (it what have to be dueling, there are no lefties in a shield wall).
It is very different. I would be willing to bet that there's enough evidence (if not studies done already) to suggest that left handed people are harder to fight, play sports against, etc... I think it may be due to their movements being 'mirrored', making for a unique style. Because there aren't as many of them compared to the common righty, not enough experience with them is acquired. Even left-handed people have trouble with other southpaws for this reason. Perhaps you find it easy, but that would not make it a misconception.
Lol saber fanboys everywhere. This demonstrates that the smallsword fencer was just the better fencer. He was quicker and more focused. I think the saber guy was trying to work on his form and technique to be honest. This doesn't prove anything. In the end it doesn't matter what weapon you choose. The best weapon is the one you are most proficient with.
This comment. Yes. I think it's ridiculous to see comments like "the saber guy let him win". The evidence displayed here was clearly in favor of the smallsword, he was simply more skilled in his form than the saber.
I know better, no small thanks to this very channel, but when I hear "smallsword" I always hope in my heart of hearts that it will be two men fencing with those tiny, sword shaped cocktail toothpicks.
Doom guy the saber guy himself in all terms of speed are slow. his hand (weapon), the speed of hand and body, and the speed of hand and body and feet. he did not attack, and he did not parry the true way, not in english saber he did not. and he did not riposte the true way either. other wise even with his slow speed, he would still have a good fight.
Good lord, I have no idea how the Smallsword fencer is getting away with playing at SS wearing Red Dragon gloves here, there is almost no opportunity wearing these for subtle movements in finger control for disengages et al - he seems to be doing rather well however with bread and butter gross movements against Sabre.
This didn't go how I thought it would. That sabre guy wasn't doing anything! Just waiting isn't gonna save you. You gotta be aggressive and evasive since the smallsword is only good on the thrust.
Much like in battle, they are trying to win. You don't do stupid over excessive things, when you have much higher chance by playing nice and simple. And press your advantage. But yeah, it looks like two tin men fighting at times.
mryupjup No they were not. Duels could be extremely vicious and fast. The French and even more so the Spanish were known for that. In Britain unarmed combat was more the norm.
Drunkduck Extremely vicious and fast or played extremely carefully. Remember that both parties do not wish to die, even though they may go at any length to kill their opponent. Extremely vicious and fast often ends with both parties being dead.
I think high seconde is precisely the wrong guard to employ against a small sword. It's very defensive and doesn't cover the thrust as well as quarte. I want to see a rematch where the sabreist employs beat attacks exploiting the greater mass of his weapon to push the small sword aside.
Amazing ! This video illustrates the difference between comparing the weapons and the fighters. As a weapon the small sword is inferior to the saber but the guy with the small sword managed to defeat his opponent .However ,In a combat between experts i think the "sabreur " would dominate the fight
@@ingni123456 : Not allways. German academic saber ( no more in use) is a ordinary saberblade, only with basket hilt of Mensurschläger, which is still in use. Mensurschläger was used for Mensur, Akademischer Säbel for real duel.
The issue being that most standard fighting stances (and ranges) when wielding a sword prevent easy one-shot unarmed killshots - ie, you probably won't get off a straight kick to the knee or an eye gouge or a throat punch or what have you. Which means that when you extend your leg or arm, you're exposing that limb to a counterstrike with a bladed weapon. Legs are especially vunerable to it, as they're (roughly) the same length as a sword, so folks are tempted to use them at the same range - but they're much easier to parry with a blade, as you really just back out a bit and chop down. The other issue is safety - the safety gear you wear prevents a "real" cut from a practice weapon, but the momentum of a an unarmed punch or kick can still jar a kneck or bend a knee the wrong way. Thus, there's (perhaps) an unconscious tendency to ignore a killshot to the head with a practice weapon, and counter with a full-force kick or punch. The first hit "won" the bout, but the counter ends up causing real injury to your training partner. This tends to happen in our escrima school on occasion, when folks from other styles come in - our solution is to wear minimal padding, so that the consequences of missing with a kick (and thus getting a slap on the leg with the practice weapon) is a fairly painful welt.
To be honest, I'm glad smallsword won. I'm an underdog fan, which I believe the smallsword is in this situation. Also when you don't move around at all, all lazy and what have you, you should lose. Plus, that protective jacket is thonged. Lol (that's just a personal taste issue).
It feels like Mr. Easton is throwing a bone to us smallsword lovers. Thank you! One aspect that makes this video both fascinating and slightly frustrating is the fact that the smallsworder is a lefty. Fascinating because it seems to offer him a huge advantage against that hanging guard, which now points away from the sword arm to the outside instead of inside opening. Thus, the sword arm is a lot less threatened by the blade. Slightly frustrating because I'm a righty. :)
@wanadeena There are a number of differences between smallsword and rapier: Blade design, hit design, weight, length, and century in which they were used. The rapier came before the smallsword. Just do an image search for "pappenheimer rapier" (a typical rapier design) and "smallsword" for a visual comparison.
awful, awful sabreur, either posing as a statue or trying to chop wood- neither weapon really designed to fight the other, so he might as well have gone for the double hits
There seems to be a big of a skull gap, but even a good sabres fencer may have trouble with a smaller because they're so fast. I've noticed I can attack with a smallsword before the opponent can respond.
Can someone explain how that hanging, prime-ish guard is helpful on foot? Maybe it's sport fencing bias but it just seems so slow and awkward parrying thrusts compared a regular old 4th guard. Not trying to bash, I'm genuinely curious. I have to admit though, it looks awesome... :)
TheBillyDWilliams Hanging guards can cover the lower body and legs on a transition from high to low faster than a regular tierce, while still covering the head and torso on their respective lines. Also, speaking from experience, a parry to an outside hanging guard in smallsword vs smallsword is an extremely controlling and safe guard, from where all that is required is a flick upwards into the opponent. There's a lot more to it that I haven't covered that can be found early on in Hope's 'New Method'. Be warned, he goes on and on and on.
Matt teaches Italian long-sword and 19th century saber fencing predominantly. He also delves a bit into spear, quarterstaff, and other types of sword. The only weapons I've heard him mention are off limits for sparring are axes, warhammers and the like, mostly off the basis that even blunt (even rubber) training axes are still incredibly strong and could still easily injure your opponent
I'm new to this stuff so could anyone tell me what just free form sword fighting is called if it has an actual name, because I feel boxed in whilst fencing and I just don't feel exhilarated as much as I do when I am free form sword fighting and when I can move more than just in a straight line. Thanks!
This is historic/traditional fencing, if you Google for HEMA clubs/schools in your area you'll hopefully find a few, though most focus on longsword rather than the weapons featured in the video.
wanadeena Smallswords are much shorter and has virtually no cutting edge. Lighter in most cases if not all, and were designed for easy carriage. Sometimes called Court sword. A gentlemen side arms. French in origins. ...Find Matt's older video for more accurate info.
A small sword is a development of the rapier, and it is shorter, thinner and lighter than the rapier. If the rapier was around 1600-ish, the small sword was more 1800s. The small sword developed from the rapier as a form of dress, not of combat. The small sword is usually around 30 inches or less, while a rapier is around 40 inches or so. Both were dueling swords, but the rapier was often used with a dagger. The smallsword was usually more of a fashion thing.
Sam Williams you underestimate the length of smallswords. Even Angelo, who opposed what he felt were excessively long small swords, recommended an overall length of 38 inches. The SS served several roles, NOT just looking pretty.
The sabre wielder could have put up a better fight, but I think this is a good illustration of how well suited thrusting weapons are to unarmored duels. Look at how much more effort it takes the cutter just to pose less of a threat.
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Is it just me, or was the sabre wielding fellow incredibly passive?
I was thinking the exact same thing.
Hjerrick I'd like to know the comparative length of the weapons and height of the combatants. If the small sword practitioner has a reach advantage, then a counter-attacking strategy isn't a bad one.
AlwaysAmazingSlyWit A counter attack focused strategy may well be his best option, but is it not usually a good idea to give your opponent a target that is more difficult to hit, ie. a moving one?
Hjerrick There is always a balance. Fighting is a lot like action-chess with no one clear answer other than play-your-opponent. For example, maybe you want to present a clear, easy opening, hopping to draw the opponent into a predictable attack to block and counter.
As a general rule, yeah. Movement is essential.
In a fight between these two weapons I would expect the saber to be much more passive. He has the much, much slower weapon. Until he can draw the smallsworder into an attack or engagement he is very likely to die even should his inital attack carry through simply because of the ability of the small sword fighter ro respond so quickly. Once he can get that engagement with the others blade his heavier one will give him the advantage in binding and controlling it allowing him to safely kill his opponent.
Would I be right in thinking that the sabreur isn't being active enough? Looks to me like his weight is quite far back and he seems to be trying to wait for the smallsword fencer to lunge and make a counterattack rather than going on the offensive himself.
Yes.
Yep sabre guy just doesn't have initiative
You're absolutely right.
I would say the smallsword guy is better at seizing the initiative. And he is lefty. It's awkward to fight a leftie
Have advantage, yeah... but also some of my friend says it also harder for them to learn things designed for non lefty
rahadian panji oki I wonder how heavily right handed HEMA is designed, I know that there are several right handed boxers who purposely trained to fight southpaw because of this edge and I wonder if any surviving treatises cover this phenomenon for dueling (it what have to be dueling, there are no lefties in a shield wall).
+rahadian panji oki Fighting a lefty? Rip that shoulder apart. Take that kidney.
Not that different from fighting a righty, just a common misconception
It is very different. I would be willing to bet that there's enough evidence (if not studies done already) to suggest that left handed people are harder to fight, play sports against, etc... I think it may be due to their movements being 'mirrored', making for a unique style. Because there aren't as many of them compared to the common righty, not enough experience with them is acquired. Even left-handed people have trouble with other southpaws for this reason. Perhaps you find it easy, but that would not make it a misconception.
Lol saber fanboys everywhere. This demonstrates that the smallsword fencer was just the better fencer. He was quicker and more focused. I think the saber guy was trying to work on his form and technique to be honest. This doesn't prove anything. In the end it doesn't matter what weapon you choose. The best weapon is the one you are most proficient with.
This comment. Yes.
I think it's ridiculous to see comments like "the saber guy let him win".
The evidence displayed here was clearly in favor of the smallsword, he was simply more skilled in his form than the saber.
I know better, no small thanks to this very channel, but when I hear "smallsword" I always hope in my heart of hearts that it will be two men fencing with those tiny, sword shaped cocktail toothpicks.
The term "small sword" really is misleading. they are not at all as short and flimsy as most people make them out to be.
See, now I want to find a couple of those, some fencing gear, and a friend, and see if I can set that up. ;-]
Good luck. At least around where I live, people doing historical small sword fencing are as rare as two-headed kittens.
Themysterymove That sounds fitting coming from a brony.lol
Caramel Johnson Hence the wired face cage.
What an utterly boring fighter that guy in white was. He did not take a single initiative during the whole fight.
Sabre guy was somewhat slow. Is it because of his technique or is it the person's fault ?
Doom guy the saber guy himself in all terms of speed are slow. his hand (weapon), the speed of hand and body, and the speed of hand and body and feet. he did not attack, and he did not parry the true way, not in english saber he did not. and he did not riposte the true way either. other wise even with his slow speed, he would still have a good fight.
100RAmen But you have to admit, he looked smooth as all hell
shurdi3 indeed
Saber's technique looks slow. A strange guard position and too difficult to make an attack from that position IMO.
Daniel Frey Smallsword guy destroyed him, guess he should have tried.
Good lord, I have no idea how the Smallsword fencer is getting away with playing at SS wearing Red Dragon gloves here, there is almost no opportunity wearing these for subtle movements in finger control for disengages et al - he seems to be doing rather well however with bread and butter gross movements against Sabre.
This didn't go how I thought it would. That sabre guy wasn't doing anything! Just waiting isn't gonna save you. You gotta be aggressive and evasive since the smallsword is only good on the thrust.
guy with the sabre isnt even trying. One thing I dislike about many duels like that is that both sides play way too passively.
Much like in battle, they are trying to win. You don't do stupid over excessive things, when you have much higher chance by playing nice and simple. And press your advantage. But yeah, it looks like two tin men fighting at times.
mryupjup where have you read about these "duels back in the day"?
gevsen Accounts from many people who won or survived these duels.
mryupjup No they were not. Duels could be extremely vicious and fast. The French and even more so the Spanish were known for that. In Britain unarmed combat was more the norm.
Drunkduck
Extremely vicious and fast or played extremely carefully. Remember that both parties do not wish to die, even though they may go at any length to kill their opponent. Extremely vicious and fast often ends with both parties being dead.
I think high seconde is precisely the wrong guard to employ against a small sword. It's very defensive and doesn't cover the thrust as well as quarte. I want to see a rematch where the sabreist employs beat attacks exploiting the greater mass of his weapon to push the small sword aside.
Amazing ! This video illustrates the difference between comparing the weapons and the fighters. As a weapon the small sword is inferior to the saber but the guy with the small sword managed to defeat his opponent .However ,In a combat between experts i think the "sabreur " would dominate the fight
What exactly is a duelling saber and how is it different from a military saber? Is there a special type of saber for duelling in history?
rasnac Military sabres were thicker and more heavy - can stand potentially more use, and would look less fancy
@@ingni123456 : Not allways. German academic saber ( no more in use) is a ordinary saberblade, only with basket hilt of Mensurschläger, which is still in use. Mensurschläger was used for Mensur, Akademischer Säbel for real duel.
Is there any rule against kicking punching and grappling??
Bernard Vera No
scholagladiatoria Though I imagine it's probably not the best of ideas?
Tarktheorc Against a sabre, no. But it happens somewhat frequently in smallsword vs smallsword.
The issue being that most standard fighting stances (and ranges) when wielding a sword prevent easy one-shot unarmed killshots - ie, you probably won't get off a straight kick to the knee or an eye gouge or a throat punch or what have you. Which means that when you extend your leg or arm, you're exposing that limb to a counterstrike with a bladed weapon. Legs are especially vunerable to it, as they're (roughly) the same length as a sword, so folks are tempted to use them at the same range - but they're much easier to parry with a blade, as you really just back out a bit and chop down.
The other issue is safety - the safety gear you wear prevents a "real" cut from a practice weapon, but the momentum of a an unarmed punch or kick can still jar a kneck or bend a knee the wrong way. Thus, there's (perhaps) an unconscious tendency to ignore a killshot to the head with a practice weapon, and counter with a full-force kick or punch. The first hit "won" the bout, but the counter ends up causing real injury to your training partner.
This tends to happen in our escrima school on occasion, when folks from other styles come in - our solution is to wear minimal padding, so that the consequences of missing with a kick (and thus getting a slap on the leg with the practice weapon) is a fairly painful welt.
It is a bad idea not to ban n grappling in thus sort of event being thrown on a wooden floor is very dangerous, as are leg and arm locks.
To be honest, I'm glad smallsword won. I'm an underdog fan, which I believe the smallsword is in this situation. Also when you don't move around at all, all lazy and what have you, you should lose. Plus, that protective jacket is thonged. Lol (that's just a personal taste issue).
It feels like Mr. Easton is throwing a bone to us smallsword lovers. Thank you!
One aspect that makes this video both fascinating and slightly frustrating is the fact that the smallsworder is a lefty. Fascinating because it seems to offer him a huge advantage against that hanging guard, which now points away from the sword arm to the outside instead of inside opening. Thus, the sword arm is a lot less threatened by the blade.
Slightly frustrating because I'm a righty. :)
Go lefty!
@wanadeena
There are a number of differences between smallsword and rapier: Blade design, hit design, weight, length, and century in which they were used. The rapier came before the smallsword. Just do an image search for "pappenheimer rapier" (a typical rapier design) and "smallsword" for a visual comparison.
awful, awful sabreur, either posing as a statue or trying to chop wood- neither weapon really designed to fight the other, so he might as well have gone for the double hits
There are some great exchanges in this one. The final thrust was very fast and difficult to see. Bravo!
Wow, smallsword guy is *fast*.
No, he's average speed. Sabre guy is slow and Indecisive
most incompetent saber user that i've seen in a long time
Yeah
Worst saber ever heck u may as well give him case and let him fight
I fucking love short swords
Isn't the sabre guy allowed to attack?
Saber guy just let him win
I heard hutton did this too
Very nice
There seems to be a big of a skull gap, but even a good sabres fencer may have trouble with a smaller because they're so fast. I've noticed I can attack with a smallsword before the opponent can respond.
Does anyone know where I can get a practice small sword like his?
Aionc Search for Jacob's Armoury - either on Google or Facebook.
scholagladiatoria Oh my goodness they look amazing! I hope I can afford one someday.
What were the rules? There seemed to be a lot of double-hits given in favour of the smallsword. Was this due to location or speed or what?
Can someone explain how that hanging, prime-ish guard is helpful on foot? Maybe it's sport fencing bias but it just seems so slow and awkward parrying thrusts compared a regular old 4th guard. Not trying to bash, I'm genuinely curious.
I have to admit though, it looks awesome... :)
Sorry, third guard, not fourth.
TheBillyDWilliams Hanging guards can cover the lower body and legs on a transition from high to low faster than a regular tierce, while still covering the head and torso on their respective lines. Also, speaking from experience, a parry to an outside hanging guard in smallsword vs smallsword is an extremely controlling and safe guard, from where all that is required is a flick upwards into the opponent.
There's a lot more to it that I haven't covered that can be found early on in Hope's 'New Method'. Be warned, he goes on and on and on.
***** Thanks!! Been wondering about that for a while now... :)
Is this sport fencing rules or HEMA style?
Yeah, someone should wake up the saber-fencer.
Are there any melee weapon type that is forbidden?
TheCockeyez yes folding knives and switchlade and real fix blade knives
Matt teaches Italian long-sword and 19th century saber fencing predominantly. He also delves a bit into spear, quarterstaff, and other types of sword. The only weapons I've heard him mention are off limits for sparring are axes, warhammers and the like, mostly off the basis that even blunt (even rubber) training axes are still incredibly strong and could still easily injure your opponent
Not only did the sabeur lose the fight, but also the fashion price. But that's just me...
is that Pim?
Yeah :)
In before someone from the Kobra-Kai club rants about how they're so much better at his club.
I'm new to this stuff so could anyone tell me what just free form sword fighting is called if it has an actual name, because I feel boxed in whilst fencing and I just don't feel exhilarated as much as I do when I am free form sword fighting and when I can move more than just in a straight line. Thanks!
This is historic/traditional fencing, if you Google for HEMA clubs/schools in your area you'll hopefully find a few, though most focus on longsword rather than the weapons featured in the video.
A light sabre?!?!?!? Woooww...
I really like mixed weapon fighting. What were the criteria for legal weapons?
This are practise weapons so you shouldnt run into problems in most of the states on the world
what's the difference between smallsword and rapier?
The smallsword is a pointy stick and the rapier is a much longer, much heavier sword for serious fighting. (very simplified)
wanadeena Smallswords are much shorter and has virtually no cutting edge. Lighter in most cases if not all, and were designed for easy carriage. Sometimes called Court sword. A gentlemen side arms. French in origins.
...Find Matt's older video for more accurate info.
wanadeena The smallsword is... smaller.
A small sword is a development of the rapier, and it is shorter, thinner and lighter than the rapier. If the rapier was around 1600-ish, the small sword was more 1800s. The small sword developed from the rapier as a form of dress, not of combat. The small sword is usually around 30 inches or less, while a rapier is around 40 inches or so. Both were dueling swords, but the rapier was often used with a dagger. The smallsword was usually more of a fashion thing.
Sam Williams
you underestimate the length of smallswords. Even Angelo, who opposed what he felt were excessively long small swords, recommended an overall length of 38 inches.
The SS served several roles, NOT just looking pretty.
The sabre wielder could have put up a better fight, but I think this is a good illustration of how well suited thrusting weapons are to unarmored duels. Look at how much more effort it takes the cutter just to pose less of a threat.
This video makes me very confident in my smallsword skills than before.