I liked it the least really. The sound didn't really come off as warm to me, more like dead. I think some of it is the small bell on the large bore gives it sort of a muffled quality. The larger bore gives it a lower resonance, but then the narrower bell restricts that resonance from carrying. Qualirt wise I do have to give it to the British style, the smaller bore gives it the brighter sound, and it makes the articulation on the instrument so much neater. The US and European just comes off abit sloppy.
I played a few of the American style "bariphoniums" in my school days. That's what most of my musical experience has been with. I've also played on small British style baritones on occasion (SA band) and recently purchased a used euphonium. In regards to this video, I would describe the British baritone as having the most refined tone of the three. The American baritone (bariphonium) as having the most full tone. And the European was slightly less full than the American style and it also, to my ear, had the least refined tone quality of the three. Thank you, Trent, for your channel and each of your videos. This baritone miniseries have been my personal favorite. (And the five valve trumpet)
I have have played many suchlike instruments like the Euphonium, the br. Baritone (for me it is a Tenorhorn), the European style baritone and the valve trombone. They are all great instruments but I like the European and the Euphonium the most. In difference to the other two they sound very mellow and warm, while the other two are more like "fun" instruments (even if these two have a great piano). Today I'm playing the European because the particular instrument is got a fourth valve and I miss the Euphonium, it was lighter and I could just leave it on the flour...
While I play the violin, I love learning about the band and its parts because my family knows all sorts of brass/band instruments. This series has been really cool, love this kind of informational sorta content!
British style baritones are quite similar to euphoniums, making it suitable for band playing. American baritones seems like a marching instrument to me.
I am in the school Wind Ensemble and neither in elementary school band or the middle school wind ensemble have I seen an american style baritone, the all look like the British one. I'm in the U.S btw.
Dyllon Ross | Yeah most American bands use euphoniums and not baritones, I’ve seen some people play actual baritones in America though, they were the British style.
Thank you for the video Trent. Acquaintance with the horn, match of mouthpiece to it (and to style playing) are factors as large as the player and/or horn. That aside in this review, on tonality as a member of the audience; I chose the rich and round voice of the European, the force of the American and the clean-er runs of the British.
I play an American Baritone...but my band mate has a British styled baritone. When I was in 6th grade I played a British styled baritone that was a school instrument.
The American style baritone is designed for marching bands. In my college marching band days, they were prominent. Now, the marching baritones are more commonly used.
Funeral March was the first solo I learned on the baritone. Most baritones I've seen in the U.S., including my own, have been British, not American, as that's the kind made by Yamaha, who are the most popular manufacturer of the instrument in my experience.
This is baritone vs euphonium vs euphonium. There's a reason why the British horn sounds so different than the other two. It's cylindrical, and the other two are conical.
The British style baritone wins my vote. Not because I'm a Brit, more because I prefer to be in the background with a supporting role, whereas the others are more eye catching. Perhaps it's that British sense of reservation. Aside from that, I also think the British baritone has a crisper more precise tone, less woolly and a good compliment to tenor horns and cornets. However all are brass instruments so are inherently cool :)
i had the american when i was learning, and i really miss it. unfortunately i lost it in a fire. brass really doesn't handle blazes that well. i know the British version is preferred a lot for its compact design, i have one now and its light as a feather, but still, the american was more comfortable to cradle and march with, and i can testify to that.
I've got a John Packer 173 Bb baratone coming. Its in poor condition and will be a restoration job. The aim is to get it working well enough to play in my grade 2 brass exam.
The best I've ever tried were: Besson Pr 2056 baritone Miraphone 54L baritone Besson Pr 2052 euph or Miraphone Amb M5050 These are the ultimate bombardiers
Thanks, Trent, it's very interesting review! :) But, in my country British Baritone is like Tenor (European style). And Euphonium is like Baritone. Because British Baritone is smaller, then American and European ones (as you talked in your video) .Maybe, if you would like, can you to do the comparison of this 3 instruments: European and American Baritones and Euphonium? Thanks! :) P.S. Sorry, if I wrote something wrong, my English isn't very well yet:)
Yeah the British got all the names mixed up. The British "Tenorhorn" is an alto horn, the "baritone" is a tenor horn, the euphonium is the real baritone.
The American style baritone is mostly used in schools as marching a marching instrument due to the bell while the Euphonium is used in a concert setting you may ask how i know this it's because i play Euphonium/Baritone
Traditional style bands (Big 10s like Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan State, Wisconsin, some show bands, and some military bands) still use them for tradition's sake. Aside from that, it's cheaper to get the American "baritone" when you can't afford to have separate concert euphs and bugle style marching horns. The design was intended to be a horn you can march and play in concert. Some American composers mistakenly call for baritone while writing parts more suitable for euphonium since the American horn in this video sounds closer to euphonium.
Bob That's actually the exact case with the piece Aquarium Opus 5 I had to play on euph recently-it was marked as a baritone part, but every recording I can find has had a euphonium instead. Personally, I like euphonium a lot more.
While all three of them have nice sounds, I'd have to say that the British Style one would be the best, because the other two try to pass up with that warm sound of a Euphonium. I think having that warm sound could be nice, considering most wind ensemble music have their composers calling for one or the other, which could make a good compensation, but overall I'd like to think that the British Styled one is built more to be its own instrument.
American Baritones are huge in a lot of middle school and high school bands across the country. I agree with most of the comments that the British sounds the best. I've used both American and British styles and the American is hard to hear from the player's perspective.
Trent, are you from Hamilton, New Zealand. I had a very good friend, Vic Ormsby (RIP), from Hamilton. He self-identified as a Maori, though strictly speaking his ancestry was half Maori and half European on both sides of his family.
The American baritone had the bast sound to it. I also like the British style baritone because I am a Euphonium player. I play on the BE 765 London modle, so I am use to seeing the British style.
In Germany, the american style Bariton is like the so calle Oberkrainer Bariton, Your european bariton with rotary walves is not in bad state in comparsion with the two others
I think that, if the rotary valves were a bit quicker in response, and quieter, the European Baritone would be the best. The American Baritone is the best, in this case, for it's got a full sound with more overtones. The British Baritone articulates well, but does not have as many overtones, owing to its design. I enjoyed all of them, nonetheless.
Trombone bells decrease in diameter much quicker than euphonium or baritone meaning even though bell size might be same or similar, trombone mutes might not necessarily fit.
* The British horn had the best sound over its whole range. A sound I, as a trombone dilettante, find most attractive. The American horn had some wooden sounding resonance at various spots but produced the baritone sound I grew up with. The horn I would have played if valves weren't counter intuitive to me . The elliptical horn seemed to have pitches at which the tone got thinner. The player's experience with each might be part of these funny resonances but I wonder if its is due to the horns quality. *Setting aside that we don't know if these three are of the same quality or if they have the optimal mouthpiece and you have more hours on the British stye horn.
The British euphonium is the king of the American concert band / wind ensemble. I love the American style baritone/euphonium but as others have said it's mostly seen as a student instrument now, though it's the euphonium of Simone Mantia, Leonard Falcone, etc. Also ironic is that the American Baritone enjoys some popularity in German polka bands... go figure..
I suspect a significant factor in polka bands sometimes using American style baritones is that they're easy to play while walking or marching. Having the horn (and arms) close in to the body means it bounces less.
Those bellfront baritones are usually used to play a very crisp, sizzling bassline in small polka bands ("oberkrainer"), while the bohemian styled baritones are used in bigger traditional brass bands as a melody instrument
I like the British Baritone more for its clarity, then the warmth of the American style. I am wondering why the European one has the bell pointing backwards? In the US, there were many horns with bells that pointed backwards, especially during the civil war era, as the marching bands would march in front of the soldiers and with backwards facing bells, the soldiers could hear the music being played clearly. Maybe not exactly for the same purpose, but I am wondering if something similar is going on with the European Baritone?
Now we need to get you a trombonium to try out. It's a baritone-shaped instrument with the bore profile of a trombone. There's a clip on RUclips of J.J. Johnson playing one.
Ottimo! Per favore mi dici il titolo del pezzo eseguito con Barithone? Grazie Optimal! Please tell me the title of the piece performed with Barithone? Thank you
The British style horn sounded quite similar to the valve trombone. But, then the overall bore size, bore profile, and bell are closer to the trombone than the other two horns are. One other observation: It is technically true than the American horn has a much larger bell the the European horn. However, only the top part (where it really flares out) of the American bell was larger. I don't think that part really has much effect on the sound. It is mostly a visual style difference. The European horn has a larger bore than the American horn, and that explains the slightly more mellow tone. This is the determining factor is tonal difference, not the very top part of the bell.
The Bell flare does more for projection. Which I think is why while the European has the darkness of a Euphonium in its down, it has a very dead tone to it. The larger bore gives it a darker tone, but the smaller bell deadens the sound. The American style is the opposite, it has the projection, but not quite the darkness. They are basically both imperfect Euphoniums. That being said I like the American style slightly better soundwise. It's not as dark, but it doesn't sound dead like the European one. And that being said, I still like Euphoniums over Euphonium like baritones.
There's a wee problem with your European Barytone, and that is, the reason, I reckon, that you had intonation problems, is that those instruments usually requires a different shanked mouthpiece.! Love your videos, this one included, but I think you might have better luck, intonation wise, if you got a mouthpiece with a European shank.! Keep it up.! 😊🎺🎶
I wonder is the British one just a better quality instrument? The American bell front baritone has a very clear sound but isnt as centered as the British one. Is the quality different or is that simply the difference between the horns?
@@tekcomputers Well the British style baritone seems like a Yamaha or a Besson and the American bell front baritone is just a King!! If he had baritones of the same brand we could more easily hear the differences.
Trent Hamilton fair enough, where I’m from in the US, I’ve only seen music for these instruments in Bass Clef. So seeing music for them in treble seems really interesting to me.
@@DinoboySeth In Junior High School over 50 years ago I switched from trumpet to Baritone. Bb treble clef. Our instructor was amazing and got some arrangements with Baritone parts but we mostly played the 3rd trumpet parts. Two of us played school owned American Baritones that were bigger than my father's tuba. Our first chair had an uncle in the Salvation Army who got him a horn from the Salvation Army's instrument factory in England. Silver, tiny, sounded so good. A few years ago I got super lucky. I bought an English style Baritone in a pawnshop for $25.00. Twenty five dollars. They also had a tenor sax and a trombone for the same price. All I know about it is that one side of the base of the bell level with the top of the loop of the tubing is engraved Selman and the other side model 15943. The valves need a lot of oil and this instrument sounds better than I play. Edit I don't know what I really have. The tubing expands steadily from the 3rd valve on. The top loop of tubing is well above the valves unlike the British Baritone in the video.
@@markhorton3994 That is really cool. Old instruments tend to always be interesting and not what we expect, I have an old 1941 bell front Bb tuba, and it took ages to find out information on it because the place that made them burned down decades ago
@@DinoboySeth I did a little more checking. Baritones of this model have been sold on Ebay and similar sites. The latest under $100. None currently available though. My quick search yielded nothing on the manufacturer except that this was not their only model.
Everything but the shape. They look specular, but the Wagner tuba has french horn mouthpiece, valves used by the left hand, french horn timbre and is played by french horn players. The bariton has cup shaped trombone-like mouthpiece and has a more euphonium like sound.
For any confused Americans who haven't see those American style baritones before: Those were all the rage from roughly the 1920s to the 1990s! They were the do-it-all baritones that you could use in concert band and marching band alike. Then they slowly started getting replaced with euphoniums in the concert setting, and corps style baritones in the marching setting. They were pretty much gone by the early/mid 2000's, for better or worse. Only a few college bands (and maybe a few random high schools) still use them. Pretty much unless you're at a Big 10 or MAC football game, you probably won't see them around much anymore. It's a shame too since they look so cool, especially on a marching field. I think the biggest reason for the switch is that all the American style baritones were made with small shanks, so directors eventually just developed a preference for the large shank corps style baritones. Plus a lot of schools started getting discounted secondhand DCI equipment starting in the year 2000 (after the very sudden end of G bugles), that played a big role in the switch as well. They're rare now, but a really cool part of band history!
Which one would you say best fits the call for "tenor tuba" in _The Planets?_ Or is that a role best filled by euphonium? Same question, different piece: _Bydlo_ from _Pictures At An Exhibition._ Which horn do you grab?
+Jun Yan Wong I'm aware that euphonium is the instrument ordinarily selected for both pieces I mentioned, but _The Planets_ hit the scene right after World War I, and bores were smaller overall than they are today, particularly on the largest brass instruments. In that light, I thought an American baritone might actually be closer to the instrument Holst thought he was going to get. As for the Ravel orchestration of _Pictures,_ bore sizes stayed small in France for quite a bit longer than elsewhere, which again leads me to wonder if an American baritone isn't closer to what Ravel had in mind. Of course, professionals at that level focus on the instruments that get the gigs, and the chance of baritones replacing euphoniums as "the pro horn" is pretty much zero.
The Planets was written by Gustav Holst - a British composer who was almost certainly thinking of a euphonium (the part certainly works much better for the euph than for bari, it needs the euph's soloistic prowess to compete against a full orchestra). Bydlo wrote for the French C tuba, a now-dead instrument with fundamental length slightly *smaller* than a euphonium but with 6 valves to take it into the low register we now consider the tuba's bread and butter. It would work best on an F tuba, or maybe a euphonium. We all agree on the following two premises, yes? 1. 'Tuba' is a family, with well-accepted members pitched in Bb and C as contrabass instruments and in Eb and F as bass instruments, with regional variations in construction like the baritone horns in this video (left-facing bell, right-facing bell, piston valves, rotary valves, front-action, top-action etc.). 2. What they all have in common is a large, conical bore that gives a rich, warm sound and a wrap that places the mouthpiece in the middle and the bell at the top. If we do, then the euphonium shouldn't just be called a tenor tuba, it IS a tenor tuba: a brass instrument with a large, conical bore that produces a rich, warm sound with the mouthpiece in the middle and the bell at the top that plays in the tenor register rather than bass or contrabass. It's commonly found in the British top-piston style, occasionally in the American front-piston style. The only argument I can think of that says it's not a tenor tuba is that it's not called a 'tuba' but the viola and cello don't have 'violin' in their names and they're still members of the violin family. I think that we can agree, though, that the baritone doesn't fit these definitions!
We can agree that the British baritone does not fit these definitions. However, a sousaphone is considered a form of tuba, as is a shoulder-carried and forward-pointing "contra" style marching tuba. The American baritone is considered by many (such as www.dwerden.com/eu-articles-bareuph.cfm ) to be a small-bore euphonium which would make it a tuba regardless of its wrap. To quote from the link provided above: "Measurements aside, my experience from playing most brands of this bell-front breed is that they sound like euphoniums. There is an old saying that goes something like 'If it looks like a duck and waddles and quacks, then call it a duck.' These bell-front type instruments should certainly be called euphoniums. All the definitions I found would support this title based on the characteristics these horns possess. The fact that they are slightly smaller in bore and sound than the euphoniums commonly found in Europe and Japan certainly shouldn’t disqualify them from the title 'euphonium.' Consider the modern trombone. Most symphony players use trombones with large bores (around .547 inches) and large bells. However, many trombones are made with bores in the range of .500 to .515 and smaller bells. They sound somewhat smaller and brighter than their larger brothers, yet they are still called trombones." As for the viola and cello, Carleen Hutchins would beg to differ! She created the New Violin family specifically because the viola and cello _are not_ scaled-up violins. Both instruments have strings shorter than a strict 1/f scaling would imply, and their air and wood resonances fall between the open strings rather than on them as is the case with violin. In both cases, the string length is the way it is to facilitate ease of playing rather than the best possible sound. The alto violin (New Violin Family replacement for the viola) is a vertical instrument for this reason, as it is too long for most people to play under the chin.
I would have been interested in knowing the percentage of conical vs. cylindrical amount of tubing in each of these (and perhaps compared to euphonium) as well. Interesting additional note, seems the European one definitely has the most "horn-like" quality--I don't know if the similar (albeit reverse) shape to Wagner tuben has anything to do with it, but that's how it felt. [British--almost valve trombone/bass trumpet-like; American--almost Euphonium like; European-almost horn/Wagner tuba-like.]
If you haven't got a trombone yet, I'd first recommend you actually be certain that it is worth investing into a trombone. If you intend to go to college and major in music, you may as well find a trombone that will last through college for you, otherwise it's wasted money imo.
First, forget about "cheap". You almost always get what you pay for, and Mr. Hamilton's videos show that repeatedly. Cheap almost always means a horn that will be harder to play well. You are probably currently playing in a school band, as well as taking private lessons. It would probably be a good idea to discuss this matter with your private tutor, then your band director. They will be able to direct you toward an instrument that will suit your needs and aspirations. I don't know if they're still available, but when I was in eighth grade, my parents invested in a King Concert 3B with the F-attachment, a good middle-of-the-line tenor trombone. It was much nicer than the Cleveland student instrument (model unknown) I had been playing before, especially when I bought a Bach 5 mouthpiece. The Bach 5 mouthpiece, incidentally, made reaching the pedal tones easier for me, and I was, with practice able to reach the pedal tone G. I do see the logic in "Hi There"'s remarks, but I expect if you are in middle school, you may change ideas concerning your career path more than once during high school. Another consideration is, middle school and high school band instruments tend to lead a rough life (witness the time a percussionist threw a stick across the rehearsal room and caught my almost brand-new instrument across both slide stockings) and you may find it makes sense to select an inexpensive but good quality used instrument. Good luck, and keep on playing!
It faces to the left of the player. The European Baritones are made for a softer playstyle, in my experience. Therefore if you don't play direktly into the listeners faces it gets a real soft tune, because it is almost like an indirekt sound.
Honestly the European baritone wins it for me. I want baritones to sound like trombones wither valves and I want euphoniums to sound like cellos with valves and I feel like the European and American models split the difference too much.
lol sorry was looking at his right shoulder. that's a 2 valve trumpet that was used for DCI in the 80's I think. or its a his fluegelhorn if I look later in the video
Just came here to say that in the states, we actually use the English style baritone much more. Jupiter and Yamaha both make very nice English style horns. I teach at a small school with the American style baritones, but that's because a lot of our inventory is from the 90s. They have been mostly phased out since then. Personally, I like the American baritone and I am happy my kids get to use them. We have some English style ones now too. The smaller and younger children use them. However, once they are big enough, I tend to give kids the American ones or a euph. You can definitely still hear a difference in a side by side between an American baritone and a Euph. I however, do not understand why they have been phased out. They're cheaper than a euph and project rather well. Anyways, I have been doing the whole band thing from middle school, to high school, to college, to DCI, to teaching, and I have never seen a new American style baritone. They are all pretty old and idk if anyone even still manufactures them anymore.
Yeah, in recent years the British Baritone has become more a thing in the US, by recent I mean starting in the 2000's. These American Style Euphonium-esque barritones kinda started falling out of favor in the late 90's. I play both trombone and euphonium, and won't say i like ones sound more than the other. I can definitely say that each one has a particular character to it that lends itself well to particular pieces of music.
One thing that has always puzzled me. It's also interesting how the tenor horn is in E flat so it's actually an alto horn. The bass clarinet is also one octave below the soprano clarinet. It should be two octaves below. That's probably just because clarinets can go so low anyhow so it just plays in the bass range rather than a tenor range.
The British have got all the names mixed up. They call "Tenorhorn" the Alto horn, and "baritone" the tenor horn, the real baritone would be the euphonium
IT doesn't honestly have the full character of a Euphonium. It sort of gets there with its darker tone, but the European has a more deadened sound than a Euphonium. I think it is an effect of the bell on the European. The large bore gives it the deeper character of sound, but the gradual flare combined with small bell robs it of the projection of a Euphonium. It's basically the inverse of the American style's problem, it has projection, but not quite the same dark quality.
Give me my American baritone.I can see the music without it blocking my view and have the bell pointed outward for better sound projection to the audience in concert.Just saying.
I dont like this european Baritone. I have learned the Baritone on a british style Baritone, but quickly changed, because it was not common in my region, the intonation was terrible and the sound was too thin. I changed to an european Baritone, which is far more common in my region. I have also played a lot of american style Baritone (, or oberkrainer Bariton, or Bellfront Bariton). These are more of fun instruments. We play these at "Fasnacht", because of the harder sound. The problems you had with the european one are mostly the ones of your model not the instrument it general. I don't have intonation problems, my bell isn't that bend to the side and you can buy one's with the mouthtube (idk if it's the right word) detached of the bell. Looking at the dimensions, this isn't even a Baritonehorn, but rather a Tenorhorn. (In my region nearly the same instrument, just the sizes are different. Baritones are slightly bigger). I can understand your problems, but don't say that a european Baritone is the worst, or british the best. It depends (like on every other instrument too) on the model you're playing on and what music you want to play.
It is very obvious, that you are a little uncomfortable with the European Baritone. Maybe it's because of the rotary valves or because of the different side of sound output. It could be just me, but it seams as if you really have to think a lot, what you are doing, when you play this instrument compared to the other two. Maybe if you get more familliar with it, it get's better.
I like the European one the best, for it's warmth and visuals
I liked it the least really. The sound didn't really come off as warm to me, more like dead. I think some of it is the small bell on the large bore gives it sort of a muffled quality. The larger bore gives it a lower resonance, but then the narrower bell restricts that resonance from carrying.
Qualirt wise I do have to give it to the British style, the smaller bore gives it the brighter sound, and it makes the articulation on the instrument so much neater. The US and European just comes off abit sloppy.
i prefer the american style baritone, it feels much more bulky and more space for me to hold when I'm playing it
I like the American style baritone, it's just giving it a good hug while playing
I played a few of the American style "bariphoniums" in my school days. That's what most of my musical experience has been with. I've also played on small British style baritones on occasion (SA band) and recently purchased a used euphonium. In regards to this video, I would describe the British baritone as having the most refined tone of the three. The American baritone (bariphonium) as having the most full tone. And the European was slightly less full than the American style and it also, to my ear, had the least refined tone quality of the three.
Thank you, Trent, for your channel and each of your videos. This baritone miniseries have been my personal favorite. (And the five valve trumpet)
I have have played many suchlike instruments like the Euphonium, the br. Baritone (for me it is a Tenorhorn), the European style baritone and the valve trombone. They are all great instruments but I like the European and the Euphonium the most. In difference to the other two they sound very mellow and warm, while the other two are more like "fun" instruments (even if these two have a great piano). Today I'm playing the European because the particular instrument is got a fourth valve and I miss the Euphonium, it was lighter and I could just leave it on the flour...
While I play the violin, I love learning about the band and its parts because my family knows all sorts of brass/band instruments. This series has been really cool, love this kind of informational sorta content!
My American school has the British style baritones.
British style baritones are quite similar to euphoniums, making it suitable for band playing. American baritones seems like a marching instrument to me.
I prefer the brit one because a thinner boar is what makes the baritone unique from the euph and actually sounds very nice
I really enjoyed this mini-series, thank you for making it :)
American baritone Bb is the one I played in my senior year of high school...I enjoyed it very much.
I own a European-style, and I love it. Mine only has three rotary valves, though.
I am in the school Wind Ensemble and neither in elementary school band or the middle school wind ensemble have I seen an american style baritone, the all look like the British one. I'm in the U.S btw.
i also live in America and i play a American style baritone
You probaly see euphoniums not baritones
Dyllon Ross | Yeah most American bands use euphoniums and not baritones, I’ve seen some people play actual baritones in America though, they were the British style.
The American one is mostly for marching but yeah it is pretty uncommon
@@MusicMan-xu3ys That is all that was used back in the 1940s - 1970s in many American schools
I haven't touched a baritone in 30 years but as soon as I heard the tone on the American model I could actually smell it. I miss being a brass player.
What's the name of the funeral piece you played?
It's an extract from Chopin's Marche Funebre
Play a marching baritone or a marching euphonium. That I would love to see.
You should do a review of a DCI baritone
aka the marching baritone
Well i think most of them use marching euphs blue devils calls theirs a hybrid but its a euph
Thank you for the video Trent. Acquaintance with the horn, match of mouthpiece to it (and to style playing) are factors as large as the player and/or horn. That aside in this review, on tonality as a member of the audience; I chose the rich and round voice of the European, the force of the American and the clean-er runs of the British.
Your intro sounds very cool with earbuds/headphones
I play an American Baritone...but my band mate has a British styled baritone. When I was in 6th grade I played a British styled baritone that was a school instrument.
The American style baritone is designed for marching bands. In my college marching band days, they were prominent. Now, the marching baritones are more commonly used.
Funeral March was the first solo I learned on the baritone. Most baritones I've seen in the U.S., including my own, have been British, not American, as that's the kind made by Yamaha, who are the most popular manufacturer of the instrument in my experience.
"And now for something a little more vigorous" *plays at 1000 miles per hour*
This is baritone vs euphonium vs euphonium. There's a reason why the British horn sounds so different than the other two. It's cylindrical, and the other two are conical.
I have played the baritone in high school, college and in military bands. The most popular is the American Baritone. Very versatile.
The British style baritone wins my vote. Not because I'm a Brit, more because I prefer to be in the background with a supporting role, whereas the others are more eye catching. Perhaps it's that British sense of reservation. Aside from that, I also think the British baritone has a crisper more precise tone, less woolly and a good compliment to tenor horns and cornets. However all are brass instruments so are inherently cool :)
i had the american when i was learning, and i really miss it. unfortunately i lost it in a fire. brass really doesn't handle blazes that well. i know the British version is preferred a lot for its compact design, i have one now and its light as a feather, but still, the american was more comfortable to cradle and march with, and i can testify to that.
I've got a John Packer 173 Bb baratone coming. Its in poor condition and will be a restoration job. The aim is to get it working well enough to play in my grade 2 brass exam.
The best I've ever tried were:
Besson Pr 2056 baritone
Miraphone 54L baritone
Besson Pr 2052 euph
or
Miraphone Amb M5050
These are the ultimate bombardiers
Thanks, Trent, it's very interesting review! :) But, in my country British Baritone is like Tenor (European style). And Euphonium is like Baritone. Because British Baritone is smaller, then American and European ones (as you talked in your video) .Maybe, if you would like, can you to do the comparison of this 3 instruments: European and American Baritones and Euphonium? Thanks! :) P.S. Sorry, if I wrote something wrong, my English isn't very well yet:)
Yeah the British got all the names mixed up. The British "Tenorhorn" is an alto horn, the "baritone" is a tenor horn, the euphonium is the real baritone.
I've played them all and I prefer the American Baritone (my favorite instrument btw)
I like the American style.
me too
wrong
Me too
I dont know anyone that uses a american style baritone in America
they all use the British style baritone lol
king turtle you really only see them in schools anymore. Maynard doubled on one back in the day but that's about it lol
The American style baritone is mostly used in schools as marching a marching instrument due to the bell while the Euphonium is used in a concert setting you may ask how i know this it's because i play Euphonium/Baritone
Traditional style bands (Big 10s like Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan State, Wisconsin, some show bands, and some military bands) still use them for tradition's sake. Aside from that, it's cheaper to get the American "baritone" when you can't afford to have separate concert euphs and bugle style marching horns. The design was intended to be a horn you can march and play in concert.
Some American composers mistakenly call for baritone while writing parts more suitable for euphonium since the American horn in this video sounds closer to euphonium.
Bob That's actually the exact case with the piece Aquarium Opus 5 I had to play on euph recently-it was marked as a baritone part, but every recording I can find has had a euphonium instead. Personally, I like euphonium a lot more.
While all three of them have nice sounds, I'd have to say that the British Style one would be the best, because the other two try to pass up with that warm sound of a Euphonium. I think having that warm sound could be nice, considering most wind ensemble music have their composers calling for one or the other, which could make a good compensation, but overall I'd like to think that the British Styled one is built more to be its own instrument.
The European baritone and euphonium were developed around the same time, they just tried more or less to do the same thing, no mimicking or anything
American Baritones are huge in a lot of middle school and high school bands across the country. I agree with most of the comments that the British sounds the best. I've used both American and British styles and the American is hard to hear from the player's perspective.
Trent, are you from Hamilton, New Zealand. I had a very good friend, Vic Ormsby (RIP), from Hamilton. He self-identified as a Maori, though strictly speaking his ancestry was half Maori and half European on both sides of his family.
The American baritone had the bast sound to it. I also like the British style baritone because I am a Euphonium player. I play on the BE 765 London modle, so I am use to seeing the British style.
In Germany, the american style Bariton is like the so calle Oberkrainer Bariton,
Your european bariton with rotary walves is not in bad state in comparsion with the two others
Any difference in mouthpiece specs between the 3?
TRENT YOU ARE 1 HECK OF AN EXCELLENT LOW BRASS PLAYER.
nice work, however more apples to apples comparison would be to replace english baritone with euphonium to compare
How about something on left-handed baritones? When I was a kid, my band had one for me. I can't seem to find one these days.
Oh, English style Baritone sounds like one which hears in some street corner in England, though I've never been to;-)
I think that, if the rotary valves were a bit quicker in response, and quieter, the European Baritone would be the best. The American Baritone is the best, in this case, for it's got a full sound with more overtones. The British Baritone articulates well, but does not have as many overtones, owing to its design. I enjoyed all of them, nonetheless.
My besson sovereign has a 9" bell. My. Wifes bach bass trombone mute is too small to fit in my baritone!
Steven Rydel my euphonium has a 12 inch bell
Trombone bells decrease in diameter much quicker than euphonium or baritone meaning even though bell size might be same or similar, trombone mutes might not necessarily fit.
I like the European baritone the most
The european is a good beginner instrument because of it’s shape. This work best if you aren’t small
British is the best
* The British horn had the best sound over its whole range. A sound I, as a trombone dilettante, find most attractive. The American horn had some wooden sounding resonance at various spots but produced the baritone sound I grew up with. The horn I would have played if valves weren't counter intuitive to me . The elliptical horn seemed to have pitches at which the tone got thinner. The player's experience with each might be part of these funny resonances but I wonder if its is due to the horns quality.
*Setting aside that we don't know if these three are of the same quality or if they have the optimal mouthpiece and you have more hours on the British stye horn.
I forgot. Thanks. I wish it had been longer.
I like the european best because the sound is so good and it is a very good instrument if you are a beginner. Apples
can you do a marching baritone/ euphonium video
I like the American style baritone
The British euphonium is the king of the American concert band / wind ensemble. I love the American style baritone/euphonium but as others have said it's mostly seen as a student instrument now, though it's the euphonium of Simone Mantia, Leonard Falcone, etc. Also ironic is that the American Baritone enjoys some popularity in German polka bands... go figure..
I suspect a significant factor in polka bands sometimes using American style baritones is that they're easy to play while walking or marching. Having the horn (and arms) close in to the body means it bounces less.
Those bellfront baritones are usually used to play a very crisp, sizzling bassline in small polka bands ("oberkrainer"), while the bohemian styled baritones are used in bigger traditional brass bands as a melody instrument
#britishbaritoneplayer and proud of it I have a Besson sovereign
I like the American style baritone the best
I like the British Baritone more for its clarity, then the warmth of the American style. I am wondering why the European one has the bell pointing backwards? In the US, there were many horns with bells that pointed backwards, especially during the civil war era, as the marching bands would march in front of the soldiers and with backwards facing bells, the soldiers could hear the music being played clearly. Maybe not exactly for the same purpose, but I am wondering if something similar is going on with the European Baritone?
The bell is not pointing backwards, its pointing to the side, I don't think it serves a specific purpose though
Now we need to get you a trombonium to try out. It's a baritone-shaped instrument with the bore profile of a trombone. There's a clip on RUclips of J.J. Johnson playing one.
I'd love to see that.or maybe an Reynolds tromhorn.
I very much like the british style,,, cuz I'm a euphonium player, and it's just familiar
I will however say that I had to play an american style baritone my freshman year of high school, and I very much wanted to toaster bath
Wow, a first comment that isn't, "First."
Ottimo! Per favore mi dici il titolo del pezzo eseguito con Barithone? Grazie
Optimal! Please tell me the title of the piece performed with Barithone? Thank you
were the hell is the marching baritone
Off not being a real baritone lmao
In the United States - not New Zealand. If you want to ship him one, I'm sure he'd be happy to test it out.
The British style horn sounded quite similar to the valve trombone. But, then the overall bore size, bore profile, and bell are closer to the trombone than the other two horns are. One other observation: It is technically true than the American horn has a much larger bell the the European horn. However, only the top part (where it really flares out) of the American bell was larger. I don't think that part really has much effect on the sound. It is mostly a visual style difference. The European horn has a larger bore than the American horn, and that explains the slightly more mellow tone. This is the determining factor is tonal difference, not the very top part of the bell.
The Bell flare does more for projection. Which I think is why while the European has the darkness of a Euphonium in its down, it has a very dead tone to it. The larger bore gives it a darker tone, but the smaller bell deadens the sound. The American style is the opposite, it has the projection, but not quite the darkness. They are basically both imperfect Euphoniums. That being said I like the American style slightly better soundwise. It's not as dark, but it doesn't sound dead like the European one. And that being said, I still like Euphoniums over Euphonium like baritones.
There's a wee problem with your European Barytone, and that is, the reason, I reckon, that you had intonation problems, is that those instruments usually requires a different shanked mouthpiece.! Love your videos, this one included, but I think you might have better luck, intonation wise, if you got a mouthpiece with a European shank.! Keep it up.! 😊🎺🎶
Baritone***
My younger sibling is on the look for a used baritone. What brands would you recommend to get a six-grader through high school?
I like the American
What song is playing in the background in the end of the video? I really love it.
I know im 3 years late but its his baritone cover of how great thou art
I like the British Baritone the best.
What about the marching baratone
I wonder is the British one just a better quality instrument? The American bell front baritone has a very clear sound but isnt as centered as the British one. Is the quality different or is that simply the difference between the horns?
The clearness comes from the bell shape. drastic bell flares create a more projecting sound. While the narrower bore gives it brightness.
@@tekcomputers Well the British style baritone seems like a Yamaha or a Besson and the American bell front baritone is just a King!! If he had baritones of the same brand we could more easily hear the differences.
there is also a baritone that is used in america for drum corps. it looks like a trumpet on steroids
And for normal American marching bands
Random question, when playing low brass such as baritones, euphoniums, trombones, or tubas. Do you prefer reading them in treble or bass clef?
Treble clef. It's how I learnt to read.
Trent Hamilton fair enough, where I’m from in the US, I’ve only seen music for these instruments in Bass Clef. So seeing music for them in treble seems really interesting to me.
@@DinoboySeth In Junior High School over 50 years ago I switched from trumpet to Baritone. Bb treble clef. Our instructor was amazing and got some arrangements with Baritone parts but we mostly played the 3rd trumpet parts. Two of us played school owned American Baritones that were bigger than my father's tuba. Our first chair had an uncle in the Salvation Army who got him a horn from the Salvation Army's instrument factory in England. Silver, tiny, sounded so good. A few years ago I got super lucky. I bought an English style Baritone in a pawnshop for $25.00. Twenty five dollars. They also had a tenor sax and a trombone for the same price. All I know about it is that one side of the base of the bell level with the top of the loop of the tubing is engraved Selman and the other side model 15943. The valves need a lot of oil and this instrument sounds better than I play. Edit I don't know what I really have. The tubing expands steadily from the 3rd valve on. The top loop of tubing is well above the valves unlike the British Baritone in the video.
@@markhorton3994 That is really cool. Old instruments tend to always be interesting and not what we expect, I have an old 1941 bell front Bb tuba, and it took ages to find out information on it because the place that made them burned down decades ago
@@DinoboySeth I did a little more checking. Baritones of this model have been sold on Ebay and similar sites. The latest under $100. None currently available though. My quick search yielded nothing on the manufacturer except that this was not their only model.
What the difference between a European baritone and wagner tuba
Everything but the shape. They look specular, but the Wagner tuba has french horn mouthpiece, valves used by the left hand, french horn timbre and is played by french horn players. The bariton has cup shaped trombone-like mouthpiece and has a more euphonium like sound.
Do European style baritone have the same figerings with british style?
Yes they do.
For any confused Americans who haven't see those American style baritones before: Those were all the rage from roughly the 1920s to the 1990s! They were the do-it-all baritones that you could use in concert band and marching band alike. Then they slowly started getting replaced with euphoniums in the concert setting, and corps style baritones in the marching setting. They were pretty much gone by the early/mid 2000's, for better or worse. Only a few college bands (and maybe a few random high schools) still use them. Pretty much unless you're at a Big 10 or MAC football game, you probably won't see them around much anymore.
It's a shame too since they look so cool, especially on a marching field. I think the biggest reason for the switch is that all the American style baritones were made with small shanks, so directors eventually just developed a preference for the large shank corps style baritones. Plus a lot of schools started getting discounted secondhand DCI equipment starting in the year 2000 (after the very sudden end of G bugles), that played a big role in the switch as well. They're rare now, but a really cool part of band history!
hey cool, this was on my birthday lol
Which one would you say best fits the call for "tenor tuba" in _The Planets?_ Or is that a role best filled by euphonium?
Same question, different piece: _Bydlo_ from _Pictures At An Exhibition._ Which horn do you grab?
+Jun Yan Wong
I'm aware that euphonium is the instrument ordinarily selected for both pieces I mentioned, but _The Planets_ hit the scene right after World War I, and bores were smaller overall than they are today, particularly on the largest brass instruments. In that light, I thought an American baritone might actually be closer to the instrument Holst thought he was going to get.
As for the Ravel orchestration of _Pictures,_ bore sizes stayed small in France for quite a bit longer than elsewhere, which again leads me to wonder if an American baritone isn't closer to what Ravel had in mind.
Of course, professionals at that level focus on the instruments that get the gigs, and the chance of baritones replacing euphoniums as "the pro horn" is pretty much zero.
Every recording I've heard of Mars uses euphonium
Use a euphonium
The Planets was written by Gustav Holst - a British composer who was almost certainly thinking of a euphonium (the part certainly works much better for the euph than for bari, it needs the euph's soloistic prowess to compete against a full orchestra). Bydlo wrote for the French C tuba, a now-dead instrument with fundamental length slightly *smaller* than a euphonium but with 6 valves to take it into the low register we now consider the tuba's bread and butter. It would work best on an F tuba, or maybe a euphonium.
We all agree on the following two premises, yes? 1. 'Tuba' is a family, with well-accepted members pitched in Bb and C as contrabass instruments and in Eb and F as bass instruments, with regional variations in construction like the baritone horns in this video (left-facing bell, right-facing bell, piston valves, rotary valves, front-action, top-action etc.). 2. What they all have in common is a large, conical bore that gives a rich, warm sound and a wrap that places the mouthpiece in the middle and the bell at the top. If we do, then the euphonium shouldn't just be called a tenor tuba, it IS a tenor tuba: a brass instrument with a large, conical bore that produces a rich, warm sound with the mouthpiece in the middle and the bell at the top that plays in the tenor register rather than bass or contrabass. It's commonly found in the British top-piston style, occasionally in the American front-piston style. The only argument I can think of that says it's not a tenor tuba is that it's not called a 'tuba' but the viola and cello don't have 'violin' in their names and they're still members of the violin family.
I think that we can agree, though, that the baritone doesn't fit these definitions!
We can agree that the British baritone does not fit these definitions. However, a sousaphone is considered a form of tuba, as is a shoulder-carried and forward-pointing "contra" style marching tuba. The American baritone is considered by many (such as www.dwerden.com/eu-articles-bareuph.cfm ) to be a small-bore euphonium which would make it a tuba regardless of its wrap.
To quote from the link provided above:
"Measurements aside, my experience from playing most brands of this bell-front breed is that they sound like euphoniums. There is an old saying that goes something like 'If it looks like a duck and waddles and quacks, then call it a duck.' These bell-front type instruments should certainly be called euphoniums. All the definitions I found would support this title based on the characteristics these horns possess. The fact that they are slightly smaller in bore and sound than the euphoniums commonly found in Europe and Japan certainly shouldn’t disqualify them from the title 'euphonium.' Consider the modern trombone. Most symphony players use trombones with large bores (around .547 inches) and large bells. However, many trombones are made with bores in the range of .500 to .515 and smaller bells. They sound somewhat smaller and brighter than their larger brothers, yet they are still called trombones."
As for the viola and cello, Carleen Hutchins would beg to differ! She created the New Violin family specifically because the viola and cello _are not_ scaled-up violins. Both instruments have strings shorter than a strict 1/f scaling would imply, and their air and wood resonances fall between the open strings rather than on them as is the case with violin. In both cases, the string length is the way it is to facilitate ease of playing rather than the best possible sound. The alto violin (New Violin Family replacement for the viola) is a vertical instrument for this reason, as it is too long for most people to play under the chin.
I would have been interested in knowing the percentage of conical vs. cylindrical amount of tubing in each of these (and perhaps compared to euphonium) as well. Interesting additional note, seems the European one definitely has the most "horn-like" quality--I don't know if the similar (albeit reverse) shape to Wagner tuben has anything to do with it, but that's how it felt. [British--almost valve trombone/bass trumpet-like; American--almost Euphonium like; European-almost horn/Wagner tuba-like.]
Where is his intro and outtro music from ?
play the marching baritone
Hey man, what's a good cheap f attachment trombone for a middle schooler who wants to learn how to use the f trigger to better my playing.
Your best bet is to invest in a good trombone. Visit your nearest music shop. I'm sure they can give you a good start.
ZEDecay Thanks
If you haven't got a trombone yet, I'd first recommend you actually be certain that it is worth investing into a trombone. If you intend to go to college and major in music, you may as well find a trombone that will last through college for you, otherwise it's wasted money imo.
First, forget about "cheap". You almost always get what you pay for, and Mr. Hamilton's videos show that repeatedly. Cheap almost always means a horn that will be harder to play well. You are probably currently playing in a school band, as well as taking private lessons. It would probably be a good idea to discuss this matter with your private tutor, then your band director. They will be able to direct you toward an instrument that will suit your needs and aspirations. I don't know if they're still available, but when I was in eighth grade, my parents invested in a King Concert 3B with the F-attachment, a good middle-of-the-line tenor trombone. It was much nicer than the Cleveland student instrument (model unknown) I had been playing before, especially when I bought a Bach 5 mouthpiece. The Bach 5 mouthpiece, incidentally, made reaching the pedal tones easier for me, and I was, with practice able to reach the pedal tone G. I do see the logic in "Hi There"'s remarks, but I expect if you are in middle school, you may change ideas concerning your career path more than once during high school. Another consideration is, middle school and high school band instruments tend to lead a rough life (witness the time a percussionist threw a stick across the rehearsal room and caught my almost brand-new instrument across both slide stockings) and you may find it makes sense to select an inexpensive but good quality used instrument. Good luck, and keep on playing!
Why does the Europan baritone bell face the behind the player?
It faces to the left of the player. The European Baritones are made for a softer playstyle, in my experience. Therefore if you don't play direktly into the listeners faces it gets a real soft tune, because it is almost like an indirekt sound.
if in an orchestra, baritone sit next to the tuba, their bell are facing the audiences
Honestly the European baritone wins it for me. I want baritones to sound like trombones wither valves and I want euphoniums to sound like cellos with valves and I feel like the European and American models split the difference too much.
QUESTION!!
Whats the fancy raw brass trumpet-ish beauty over your left shoulder?
Probably the ussr cornet I think
SaxSavage no the one thats like tarnished brown and looks like its only got 2 valves
lol sorry was looking at his right shoulder. that's a 2 valve trumpet that was used for DCI in the 80's I think. or its a his fluegelhorn if I look later in the video
SaxSavage I think he mightve gotten a g marching flugel and hasnt gotten to reviewing due to baritone-athon
Definitely has 2 valves. you're probably right. we'll have to see.
Just came here to say that in the states, we actually use the English style baritone much more. Jupiter and Yamaha both make very nice English style horns. I teach at a small school with the American style baritones, but that's because a lot of our inventory is from the 90s. They have been mostly phased out since then. Personally, I like the American baritone and I am happy my kids get to use them. We have some English style ones now too. The smaller and younger children use them. However, once they are big enough, I tend to give kids the American ones or a euph. You can definitely still hear a difference in a side by side between an American baritone and a Euph. I however, do not understand why they have been phased out. They're cheaper than a euph and project rather well. Anyways, I have been doing the whole band thing from middle school, to high school, to college, to DCI, to teaching, and I have never seen a new American style baritone. They are all pretty old and idk if anyone even still manufactures them anymore.
Yeah, in recent years the British Baritone has become more a thing in the US, by recent I mean starting in the 2000's. These American Style Euphonium-esque barritones kinda started falling out of favor in the late 90's.
I play both trombone and euphonium, and won't say i like ones sound more than the other. I can definitely say that each one has a particular character to it that lends itself well to particular pieces of music.
Apples
We Americans play mostly on euphonium
how is that a baritone, if it is the same range as a TENOR trombone, and euphonium?
One thing that has always puzzled me. It's also interesting how the tenor horn is in E flat so it's actually an alto horn. The bass clarinet is also one octave below the soprano clarinet. It should be two octaves below. That's probably just because clarinets can go so low anyhow so it just plays in the bass range rather than a tenor range.
The British have got all the names mixed up. They call "Tenorhorn" the Alto horn, and "baritone" the tenor horn, the real baritone would be the euphonium
America USA 🇺🇸
The European style sounds more hallow than the others
What stops you from saying that the European style baritone is a euphonium?
IT doesn't honestly have the full character of a Euphonium. It sort of gets there with its darker tone, but the European has a more deadened sound than a Euphonium.
I think it is an effect of the bell on the European. The large bore gives it the deeper character of sound, but the gradual flare combined with small bell robs it of the projection of a Euphonium. It's basically the inverse of the American style's problem, it has projection, but not quite the same dark quality.
Not much really. Older euphoniums were called "Flicorno Baritono" in Italy. The euphonium is essentially the most refined version of this design
The American one sounded free-st, honestly.
Give me my American baritone.I can see the music without it blocking my view and have the bell pointed outward for better sound projection to the audience in concert.Just saying.
British style is the best
The European baritone looks a little like a french horn...
Wagner tuba
European, American, and British. One has 4 valves.
I dont like this european Baritone. I have learned the Baritone on a british style Baritone, but quickly changed, because it was not common in my region, the intonation was terrible and the sound was too thin. I changed to an european Baritone, which is far more common in my region. I have also played a lot of american style Baritone (, or oberkrainer Bariton, or Bellfront Bariton). These are more of fun instruments. We play these at "Fasnacht", because of the harder sound. The problems you had with the european one are mostly the ones of your model not the instrument it general. I don't have intonation problems, my bell isn't that bend to the side and you can buy one's with the mouthtube (idk if it's the right word) detached of the bell. Looking at the dimensions, this isn't even a Baritonehorn, but rather a Tenorhorn. (In my region nearly the same instrument, just the sizes are different. Baritones are slightly bigger). I can understand your problems, but don't say that a european Baritone is the worst, or british the best. It depends (like on every other instrument too) on the model you're playing on and what music you want to play.
Why don't you monetize your videos?
They are monitised?
Trent Hamilton No, I'm asking you why aren't they, you do a vey good job in my opinion!
The videos are monitised. I'm not sure what you mean.
That's odd because there are no ads in my video
Do you use an adblocker?
It is very obvious, that you are a little uncomfortable with the European Baritone. Maybe it's because of the rotary valves or because of the different side of sound output. It could be just me, but it seams as if you really have to think a lot, what you are doing, when you play this instrument compared to the other two. Maybe if you get more familliar with it, it get's better.
The European style had a beautiful tone. Too bad it is so out of tune.
Is it just me or does the British Baritone sound like a trombone
Well it basically is.... effectively just a valve trombone wrapped differently.
I think the American style baritone sounds like shit compared to the crisp, clear British style baritone. A totally different instrument.
Wtf they all sounded the same!🤨