The Need for Political Diversity in Comics
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- The Need for Political Diversity in Comics
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Art and Animation by Just Some Guy
Original trailer concept: FMA Brotherhood & Black Summoner
Music: "Enkon Hakuchuumu" by Sakagami Souichi - Copyright (C) 2015 Trial & Error/Sakagami Souichi All rights reserved.
Trial & Error: www.tandess.com...
I have both conservative and liberal friends that are comic fans. None of us read anything modern anymore. Haven't for years. We have had just about every argument you can have about superheroes. We've never debated the political views of Batman. It has never mattered.
The ones where you could debate politics used to be a discussion, not a lecture. And if they did become a lecture, everyone could openly acknowledge them as trash.
I am conservative and I have a liberal friend who discusses Batman with me. I think it's safe to say that Batman is obsolete and we need more of John Doe Vigilante. That's a good movie.
Right wings should be only shown as evil and white
It's not even political diversity. It's just opinion. People can't be framed as right or wrong all the time.
🎉👍👍 agreed 1000% and I approve this message
Yeah, we used to have 2 opposing opinions, "guns are bad" and "it's not the gun it's the person that uses it" and we'd have both sides raise the positive and negatives of both viewpoints, nowadays it's erase Punisher from existance.
@@Steroyd666 And then we woke up and realized that the people that push the idea that guns are bad are hypocritically surrounded by armed security.
@@NostalgicGamerRickOShay every freaking time.
Hell, even the slacktivists who claim to protect women and lgbt people do a 180 when someone from these groups expresses an opposing opinion.
All you gotta do is look at when Denny O’Neil and Chuck Dixon were working together at DC. Two geniuses with polar opposite views who made magic together. It isn’t about agreeing or even liking each other (though Chuck and Denny were friends) it’s about having the same goal. Both those men wanted to make the best Batman and Bat-family comics possible and they more than succeeded.
and both men would be considered "old cisgender straight white men" by today's comic industry standards and be pushed out by the likes of Vita A and Tee Franklin.
Well said
@@jamesneese7663you are a victimized. The comic industry is still predominantly white men. Why are you pretending to be opressed?
What differences? Why do you clowns treat politics like its choosing your different colors?
@@michaelraymon111 Political opinions can be changed. Preferences can also change.
The issue now is trust. A lot of these far left weirdos have shown their true colors and I wouldn't fault a right-leaning creator or even a moderate/centrist for believing the cancel crowd still has a knife hidden behind their back, waiting for a chance to get them fired over a microaggression. There's also the trust of the customer, who they've insulted repeatedly in favor of clowns who have never even read the books.
Creators of differing views are better off doing their own thing, or teaming up with an artist/writer to bring their story to life. The big two especially are damaged from their total embracing of one political side, and a half-hearted "sorry" won't fix it. It'll take years to fix and some people were burned so much that nothing will bring them back.
Captain America Civil War was a good example of political diversity, for a comic book movie. Stark and Rogers each represented one side of an issue and both were presented as moral equals, even if their values and perspectives were different. I like how in Endgame they try to return to keeping civil and respectful discourse even if they still felt some personal grudges or unspoken awkwardness about their past differences.
Except it made terrible points when it came to arguing for the government control side by simply pointing at New York and Washington and implying "that's your fault".
1. New York: -would have happened without the Heroes intervention (attention was called to earth by the govs experiments on the tesseract)
-the governments' solution was way worse (throw a nuke at it and call it a day)
2. Washington DC: -was completely the government's fault to begin with (the plan to murder millions of political inconvenient people based on an algorithm)
Both examples were better suited to support the individualists side of that argument and to not trust any government with any decision-making, which kind of annoyed me that none of the characters pointed that out and Captain America just answered with a platitude about making a stand or something.
They were not treated as moral equals. The movie absolutely takes Cap's side, practically from the very beginning. From the outset, Tony's desire to sign the accords is treated as a manifestation of his own guilt and self loathing he's developed from the constant backfiring of his good intentions. He's suffering from PTSD, has the shakes, and his overall obsessive desire to solve all the world's problems is treated as a fatal flaw, not a valid political point.
It's interesting perhaps as a character study, but the movie does not at all treat the political ideology between Cap and Iron Man as equally valid whatsoever, which is something the comic the movie is based on also failed to do (but, in my mind, was still better than the film).
@@roberthesser6402 It's been a few years since I last watched it so I may have forgotten what you described or maybe didn't perceive it the same way
@@roberthesser6402 That (and the death of Cap afterwards) was the book that made me stop reading Marvel Comics altogether, though I still struggled through World War Hulk. Both Captain America and Iron Man have never been written more out of character all to serve a nonsensical story that was forced into the Marvel Universe despite not fitting at all. It actually could have worked as a DC comics story, but Marvel villains are too powerful and SHIELD too ineffective and too often infiltrated or corrupted for anyone to seriously think it would be a good idea to force even one major Superhero under their control. It would be like a professional team who just won multiple championships firing a hall of fame coach and demanding their players play for a highschool coach who has never won a game and been fired from multiple jobs for betting against his own team.
Stark was right in both the MCU movie and the civil war comic run though you can see Captain America's viewpoint.
The problem isn't politics in media. The problem is Twitter discussion politics in media.
Don’t you mean X. 😂
If an deletable app is dictating that, you know people have issues.
@@Iffy350You beat me to it lmao
Obviously. Too bad it's not common sense nowadays.
Not for that much longer.
3:25
The Absorbing Man literaly making basic Reddit anti-sjw comments while fighting Jane Foster is without a doubt one of the most forced and wtf political injections I've ever seen in a comic. It's so absurdly surreal how unsubtle and overly in-your-face the author was that sometimes I thought I was reading a parody 😅
And then his girlfriend let Jane off the hook and wouldn’t fight her
You people would have had a mental breakdown from captsin america comics feom the 70s and 80s
And how he talk instead
That entire run was a dumpster fire.
@michaelraymon111 Reading all of the misspelled words in your comments makes me think you’re experiencing a mental breakdown of your own 😂
CBR published this article SEVEN YEARS TOO LATE. It's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic- after the captain sailed the ship into the iceberg, reversed propellers, sailed the ship into the iceberg AGAIN, reversed propellers AGAIN, sailed the ship into the iceberg AGAIN...
Yes, and after years of cheering on comics being used as a vehicle for left-wing propaganda.
Seven Years is exaggerated
Great storytelling is what’s important.
The Stories that aren’t political at all and are based on good writing, good characters , deeper lessons, morals and entertainment
as well as the stories that do have political elements but are more focused on an engaging story,a well thought out lesson or idea behind it and interesting characters are the stories that make great entertainment. As my film teacher taught me Art before politics, always. The story & characters comes first whether the politics are subtle, secondary or completely non existent. There are two types of great stories when it comes to this method: stories that are apolitical with great characters, writing & moral lessons or none, and then there are stories that have political elements but put the quality of the writing and characters, & moral lessons first. Whether either type of story is apolitical or has political elements deep philosophy, morality, & mythology can often play a role in sharpening the story, once you form your morals for a story into ideas over just using them for government or social policy statements you can grab anyone within an audience no matter who they are or what they believe that is the gift of good storytelling
Modern SJW’s unfortunately don’t have that gift because for them there is nothing deeper then the physical realm they see and often hate so instead of forming deep intelligent universal themes or ideas through the magic of storytelling they try to bend those themes or ideas to their will ,thoughts and beliefs.
They can’t form their morals into ideas so often they come off as just government or policy statements without the feeling of anything deeper to an audience turning most people off whether they do or don’t agree with them or are indifferent to begin with.
Hey man thank your film teacher for me and your comment has pretty much summed up everything I was about to say man you guys are on fire today🎉💪💪👍
Basically you vote for republican without telling me
@@alohatigers1199 I’m actually Apolitical
@@alohatigers1199you vote for career politicians who have done nothing but make things worse while they get richer in there decades of office. You vote for criminals who treat minorities like thier stupid. You vote for ppl who condoned a school shooting
@@bendu8282 How close to being an anarchist is this? Btw, I know that anarchy is not bad or evil at all, it just appears similiar to me.
In order to write a character from a different point of view than your own, and not make them a parody, you have to be able to articulate their point of view in a reasonable way. Your "foil" has to be able to make reasonable arguments and have a valid point on some level.
It would be hard to find writers that would be willing to admit the other team has a point, much less convey that in a compelling and entertaining way.
The issue isn't politics, it is a lack of creativity. Comics always had a political message, the difference was, they had the creative talent to wrap those stories in a way that it was not in your face. The "creators" today, do not have that talent. They have never been pushed, or critiqued as part of their learning journey, as that can be seen as bullying or negative. But critique is a major part of growing as a creative professional. That is how you grow, and your ability matures.
Yup. Good ideas are forged in fire and to allow your ideas to be criticized is to stress test them. Whatever breaks should be rebuilt or discarded because it was not good building material to begin with.
Yea, we could get X-men discussing things like racism indirectly.
And then the hacks came and said "We need more talk about racism in X-men".
Because they were too stupid and ignorant to be able to understand symoblism.
I disagree about comics always having politics. Sometimes it's just basic stories with good vs evil, which in of itself isn't in the realm of politics but more of human experience.
I agree with the other aspects. There is a distinct lack of creativity, and creators have resorted to trying to copy better more talented writers of the past, copy/pasting their Twitter feed politics, or (which I think is the most egregious) corrupting old works and characters for propaganda purposes. The last example something g I do not consider to be works of art, but messaging made to misinform and force a cultural viewpoint through caricature.
That isn't like old school comics about cap fighting the yahtzees. Everyone outside of Germany already agreed they were bad and they became more of a "evil" vs caps "good". Today's stuff is more about painting people who don't fall in line with the creatives political view point ad being inherently evil with no room for discussion, despite the fact legacy characters probably wouldnt fall in line with the writers.
@@Omegaphoenix128 Well I guess politics was the wrong word, more like social issues. When you look at the X-men and the morlocks, or mutants in general. There was a message in the undertone. It wasn't obvious, but it stuck with you as a reader. But that is were writing talent comes into play. The ability to have someone think about an issue, without throwing it in their face. As Linus replied, the creative use of symbolism.
A good political story depicts the issues honestly - which is to say that there is a REASON why honest people would disagree. A bad political story is propaganda - it paints one side as always and obviously correct and the other side as monsters to believe differently. This is why you can have good stories that everyone can be entertained by and bad stories that nobody is entertained by.
Intellectual diversity is vital for good ideas. Totally, 100% agree. And it’s nice to hear Guy not take a shot at the right. Thank you.
Hiring creators that actually like and understand the Marvel/DC continuity and don't passionately hate the fans would be a good idea too.
Well, Marvel DOES have Jed Mackay and he seems to like the characters he’s writing for. My point being that Marvel seems capable of hiring writers who like the source material, so they can do it again.
The problem here is that characters have developed. Let's assume that we have someone who loves comics who is writing for his favorite character and in the previous run they got extremely political, it will feel like whiplash and bad writing for that not to come up again and if we say 'well just ignore that one' we quite quickly run into a much worse issue where characters are written as incredibly inconsistent.
@@thanatosdriver1938 True, but a good writer will know how to inject that into the story they wish to tell and make it work.
@@thanatosdriver1938 this is where editorial uses to step in and ensure everyone is written in character. This worked at Marvel for 75 years before Disney. Nothing necessarily wrong with a character being political- if it's organic character development influenced by their experiences or in character to begin with. What we have instead is talentless hacks writing themselves into stories that make no sense whatsoever in Marvel continuity.
Yeah crazy how it’s 2023 and just now when the entire industry has tanked they’re saying maybe we shouldn’t preach to our audience 💀
I grew up in an evangelical fundamentalist household, I came out as athiest when I was 13, and currently my family doesn’t know about my sexuality, despite a number of comic book pros saying these books are for me I still can’t stand them, they remind me of the media I grew up with, the way that just about every character is turned into a section of the sermon
I completely relate and agree with you. Comics and the media got so ironically preachy. These people will claim to be spiritual or athiest yet they're Bible Belted as hell itself and don't see how dogmatic and "faith" driven they've become.
from one group of preachers to another.
worse part when they write about gay character is always the same type. Flaming Gay men like they are not any other type. Take for example robin, he went from straight to bi but is drawn with his hip thrusting forward hands on his hip and so on all the sudden. He is bi in a macho world he should had been drawn normally. He just happen to be attracted to type of man or women. Same thing happen to iceman he comes out of the closet and he suddenly all about gay.
@@MarverynI feel like The Pride is a really good example of this too from someone who SHOULD KNOW BETTER. If a character is gay, make them a regular person, or at least a fun, interesting person.
@@gs4011 but what about bdsm bear?
This extends into real life as individuals as well; it’s almost as if having a mix of beliefs and ideas makes you a more logical, well-rounded person, instead of just being progressive or conservative…
Both Nerdrotics and Ddaycobra have recently shouted you out with high praise. Probably because you are Just Some Guy that is cool. 😎
If there's one thing about "diversity" that comics need now, it's a respectful portrayal of different political views, like the one the stories of the past decades did. Heck, the main reason "Watchmen" is so great is because all of the main characters have radically different ideologies from each other, and yet no character is portrayed in a more heroic way than the others, As it can be seen with the "philanthropic" Ozymandias killing millions of people as a way to save the world and the "monstrous" Rorschach giving his life to bring Adrian to Justice. A moral duality like that would be simply unthinkable today. Nowadays, SJW authors wants you to 100% agree with the ideology of their perfect protagonists, depicting any other character who thinks slightly differently as a simply villain, something that obviously causes rejection in most readers. Leaving aside what you think about the use of politics in old comics, something quite admirable about them is that they treat characters who think differently. Is it THAT difficult to respect an opinion different from yours? 🤦
@@LTNetjak
I think Alan Moore, like Frank Miller, has increasingly lost his sanity over the years. The curse of the good writer, I guess
@@TetsuShimawell the best artists are quite often nuttier than squirrel scat so it's not too shocking.
Rorsharch was a good character by accident
Um... if you think Watchmen treated all the characters with equal respect, you need to read it again. Yes, they got equal time focusing on their perspective (literally - one issue each), but they were NOT considered equal at all. Manhattan was self-absorbed and disaffected from humanity. Rorschach was called a fascist numerous times by his TEAMMATES. Comedian was a 'patriot' and not accidentally a murderer and a grapist. There were absolutely characters you were supposed to like and ones you weren't supposed to like. That so many audience members liked the ones they weren't supposed to speaks much more to Moore's artistic integrity in making each of them fully fleshed-out consistent and sometimes complex individuals. Characters Moore hated end up being loved by people Moore would have hated. So it goes.
@@HerculesBallsInc
What I'm saying is that, in the end, all the characters are equally human, since Rorschach and the Comedian, despite their sociopathic behavior, find Ozymandias's act completely horrific and unjustifiable and end up giving their lives because of it, while Nite Owl and Silk Spectre, despite being much more psychologically stable, eventually chicken out and agree to live in Adrian's utopia. Nowadays, Nite Owl and Silk Spectre would be represented in a 10/10 positive light and Rorschach, Ozy, Edward and John in a 10000/10 negative light
The problem is the writers arent mildly political but very political and lack empathy. While psychological studies have shown that people who lean right have a slightly better chance of understanding the opposite viewpoint than people who lean left, the truth is the extreme of both sides have trouble (and little interest in ) seeing the viewpoint of the other. Writers have to have lots of empathy. They literally have ro put themselves in the shoes of people who are often not like themselves. Modern comic writers lack that empathy (and life experiences)which is why you end up with stereotypes at best when they write anything outside their own experience.
I think part of the problem is there has been a shift in society from let's discuss the best way to do something to everyone who doesn't agree with me is vile, evil, and wants to destroy my way of life. It seems like John McCain saying Obama was a very good man that he just happened to disagree with was a life time ago. It's hard to have empathy if the people who aren't like you are painted as monsters instead of people. As an unaffiliated moderate I see a lot of each side wanting to scream at the other instead of going oh hey the US is a nation founded on compromise.
Alan Moore is on the extreme left. Extreme views are in no way synonymous with not understanding or being empathetic people or society.
@@plagueofjoe perhaps I should have said on average. There are exceptions to every rule. Regardless slas I said in general the extremes of both sides lack empathy. Largely because the both have little interest in understanding anyone who thinks differently from themselves. Having seen numerous interviews with modern comic "pros" I think most of at least the younger writers fall into this category
@@markcarpenter6020 I think that once you get out on the extremes it becomes about winning at any cost 24/7.
@@channelsofash and you end up vilifying the people on the other side and who wants to understand how the "bad guy" thinks
All In The Family is a good example of how different viewpoints make for better stories
It is sort of baffling how relevant a show from the '70s is today.
They even had a show explaining why Archie was the way he was. It didn't excuse him but it gave depth to his character. He really was a product of his upbringing.
The key for any writer is to portray people they disagree with religiously, politically, or ideologically as real people in a way that readers will recognize their actual point of view. If a villain has comical versions of a philosophy, you put someone in there to voice reason and speak for those who will point out that the villain is unhinged. The same with whatever your own POV is as the writer; put someone in there to dispute it. Nothing makes bad fiction faster than everyone with the "proper" viewpoint being "good" and everyone with the wrong viewpoint being a shallow stereotype and "bad".
Christian fiction is a really good example. Some is good, of course, but a lot is really awful and for the same reasons that woke-religion fiction is awful. For one thing, the same "you can't show the bad stuff" rule pops up. A comic about how awful a world with Trump is showing bad things happening to people? Ha! Try a comic about a bad person converting but they're not supposed to have any actual bad opinions, use bad words, or do any bad things.
The two are so closely paralleled that it's almost shocking.
Why dont comics make their own religions?
It's their own fantasy world and the show of powers is a clear indication that it's not the real world so throw in anything you can think off
@@youtubestudiosucks978 That's an option, of course, but I've seen the same shallow writing with made up religions if the author is unable to treat believers as real people.
Suppose we consider fantasy politics and the "bad guys" are monarchists. They have a king and the king is the villain. Suppose that the author thinks that monarchies are evil and can't conprehend a good person who doesn't realize that a monarchy is evil. Chances are that every bad guy monarchist will be portrayed as a cardboard cut out.
I've seen writers do it with military, too. They don't "get" the concept so no one in uniform is an actual human in the end product.
@@JuliePascal yeah but do they have to use the name of actual religions? Just change the name and the etniticy of the mayority of the believers.
Like for example, many muslims are arabic but what if they were asian instead and called themselves jedis, it's lazy but it's different enough to claim otherwise, it's a fantasy world so be somewhat creative even if it's lazy whriting
I’d love to see more movies like Capt. America Civil War again where everyone is divided on a tough issue but they all have good reasons for that disagreement.
I feel this is one of your best videos. Well said.
In my friend group, we had 2 conservatives (one of whom is bisexual), a centrist, a guy who doesn't care about politics at all, one guy (myself) who only cares about politics for the memes, a moderately left-leaning dad, and a far-left afrocentrist. We never had any issue until the latter guy tried to convince us all to think like him. We sort of ignored that and took everything he said with the smallest half grain of salt. He left the group because he views us as problematic now when before his Great Imposition there was no issue.
Most people don't care if you bring politics into something just as long as their side is represented fairly and you DON'T try to push your politics or agenda on them.
The scene in the 90s X-Men cartoon with Wolverine is praying in the church Ghana most powerful moments of that show and I guarantee you it would not be made today. Common American warm I can't be the only books that actually for political diversity
One of my favorite recent examples of an intriguing clash of ideology is the roof top scene in daredevil season 2 where daredevil is arguing with the punisher
Here's something they haven't tried in a while: how about *no* politics in comics? I know it'll be hard, it seems like half the characters started as propaganda, but I'm sure that if the comicbook writers put their bobbleheads together, they can pull it off.
Here's the problem, these days people will make anything out to be political, even things that seem like they should be basic, universally agreed-upon things. Even superheroes just trying to be good people can be taken as "leftist propaganda" or what-have-you; I would know, most of my family is so hardcore right-wing political that they view basic morality as being "too woke".
Basically, people should just write comics to the best of their ability and in the way that feels most natural, if it happens to "get political" then oh well, it got political, as long as it feels right for the story then it's fine.
@@captaincomic8678 Not to be too on point, but saying that "basic morality" is something people who think differently than you find objectionable is kinda part of the problem. You've essentially defined "doesn't think like me" to be "immoral". Your family probably does have similar concerns about caring for others and fairness as you do, but they are probably balancing them with ideas that value the sacred, loyalty, and authority. I'm not saying they're right (I don't know what kind of crazy things they might think), but there are good reasons to consider those things, even if you don't prioritize them in your own moral thinking.
@@argentaegis I guarantee you my family has no such concerns, these are people who have unironically said "I think Hitler had a point" on multiple occasions and meant every word.
@@captaincomic8678 That would be pretty messed up. I've never had to deal with that particular brand of heinous personally. Would have to be hard.
I see people accusing each other of such behavior a lot more often than I see it, and I don't think those people appreciate the levels of destructive evil they describe, or how easy it is for people to go down that dark path. I hope things get better for you and your family.
@@argentaegis Honestly at this point I just kinda keep to myself and try to make sure my nephew doesn't get sucked into... whatever you'd call the rest of the family situation. Which isn't too difficult, he's ended up turning out a lot like me, the issues begin when the rest of the family tries to bully him into seeing things their way because he's still just a kid. At some point I might just adopt him and move to another state.
This what many Japanese manga doesn't have, hence why they're more popular than comics.
The problem is that if anyone to the right of Mao gets hired at Marvel, they'll almost certainly be harassed out by the current crop of crazies. I think comics are just doomed. Let manga rule the world.
Almost like tension equals drama.
At the end of the day, we don’t just want political diversity. We want writers and companies to stop acting like their mindset is the ONLY right viewpoint and to stop using their biased opinions as the framework for all of their stories.
That comic panel with the mosque climbing a skyscraper is absolutely hilarous 🤣 "what makes you think that i am a bother?" - "Oh, sorry! I apologise!" ...WTF??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Having any form of art be demanded to be of any political bent is a recipe for disaster and is the key issue behind the damage we see to most artistic endeavors today.
As far as people commenting on cultural and artistic issues, you are one of my favorite creators because you consistently point out when you feel either end of the spectrum has done something stupid. Not in the name of any kinda political fealty or fervor, but rather because it's what you believe to be true.
That is the goal I strive to have for myself since art--whether it's games, movies, books, music or whatever--is such a huge part of my life. Keep up the great work. Your videos always brighten my day or give me something interesting to think about. :)
LOVED the Green Lantern - Green Arrow series!
Absolutely. It was great. The writers just couldn't do it now.
@@David8n hopefully one day soon!
0:07 If only someone…anyone…
Just…Some GUY…
had suggested this for years.
[Archie comic-books are the epitome of playing it safe for decades imho!😋]
For some reason the movie " Enemy Mine " comes to my head after hearing this. It's a Great movie in my opinion.
The politics haven't become muted. One side has been gagged while the other has been given a bullhorn.
I think the funniest real world example of this problem being all in the execution and how you approach issues would be The Orville. A huge chunk of Star Trek fans that were pretty much called bigots for saying NuTrek is preachy trash all rallied around that Orville, who's entire major plot hangs completely around the gender of an alien child. I think that showed that the accusations were complete lies, to be honest. It's just that they made sure the debate followed universe rules, and approached the issue from a bunch of different views - and most importantly, gave it a viable reason to power some great sci-fi action by actually tying it to much larger plot threads - it never brought the plot to a halt, but seamlessly fueled it.
Probably late to this... but liking the new opening. Haven't seen anything popping up in my feed from you. Happy to see a post as I've always enjoyed your view and humor.
Cross over events would be a much bigger deal if the heros were people that didn't agree or sometimes even like eachother.
Until the world feels believable and feels like it changes with the stories developing into account I don't think I could care personally
In the 70s, that genre stagnation and stifling political environment led to a massive breakout in the UK of amazing comics - 2000AD being the flagship. Pop culture may be more fragmented, and have stranger transmission channels these days, but the optimist in me sees comics, film, and music as ripe for a new wave.
We’ll know we’re safe when Superman proudly says once again that he stands for “Truth, Justice and the American Way.”
One of the reasons I like coming back to your video's - despite how acerbic you can get sometimes - is *YOUR* diverse opinion. After all, if all headlines say the same thing, that's not news but advertisement.
When we had Green Lantern, the Flash and Green Arrow arguing, it was a great read. The Flash being a cop and Green Arrow being a radical with Green Lantern, a space cop, being in the middle. They seemed more human than anything I've read in the last decade.
One example off the top of my head that sums up the argument is DC in the 1980s. They had Alan Moore and Frank Miller, two politically diverse professionals. What did you get? Swamp Thing/Ronin & Watchment/Dark Knight Returns.
Civil War comic is the best example of political diversity being a story about statism vs anti-statism
I don't know why people are so afraid of "a difference of opinion." I've been following Just Some Guy for a while now, and not everything he says I agree with. But I don't flip over the handle about it. There are plenty of things I DO agree with him on, so in those situation I just think "well, I disagree but it's fine." Being open to a wide arrange of opinions makes you a better person. Hell, Just Some Guy has even convinced me on a topic before because he brought up a POV I hadn't thought of. So yeah, closing yourself in a bubble does nothing but hurt you, and making every issue an "us verse them" thing just fills your life with unnecessary stress and anger.
As rule of writing I always try to give as many view points as possible because it's fascinating how depending where the lines in the sand are drawn good goes bad and bad goes good not just that but I hate cliches it's why my favorite comic books , games , movies and shows are the ones that break the mold by trying something unique even if it crashes and burns ( last few years on sonic ) I can still applaud it for being different
Same. I like stories with nuance and characters who are morally grey. It’s why I love the original Fullmetal Alchemist series, it’s part of why I love the MCU in general and Doctor Strange in particular. And I hate how so many writers nowadays don’t seem to get that, nor do they seem to have empathy for the characters they’re writing. It’s kinda sad really. It’s like they don’t like being challenged or accepting the world for what it is when…you know, that’s just part of life
I remember watching the new season of Umbrella academy and being confused that NO ONE had any questions, concerns, or issues with the extremely unstable Vanya suddenly claiming she was a man.
Even the characters they were fighting against were respectful of her new pronouns.
It’s especially ridiculous considering those very same characters would argue and berate each other over EVERYTHING ELSE
I have no problem calling him Elliot Page but I threw a fit at that her name is Vanya. However, I fully believe that none of the characters (except maybe Ben or Klaus or perhaps the stupid floating cube) would actually misgender Vanya.
Not asking a metric ton of questions, however, that IS out of character for everyone (except maybe Klaus)
I mean, they're a family of trauma bonded adopted superheroes trying to stop the apocalypse and time cops.. repeatedly.
Them just going "huh? Okay. Fuckever" to that after and during everything else sorta tracks.
The show endlessly coming back to harp on it, though? That was annoying. Idgaf about identity politics, on board, sure fine fuck it. I'm here for the damn show and to be entertained, not to be harassed.
Every single video, you just get better and better. Keep up the good work.
The people steering the ship have just now noticed all the rats are gone and its sinking. Too bad its too late for them.
Everyone agreeing with everything is how we got Mutant Cult Island
As much as I appreciate different views and perspectives for criticism, or awareness, the entire problem is that people have allowed a group that doesn't respect nor see anything of that nature, a social commentary NAP agreement of some sorts. You've allowed an INVADER force that plays for keeps, while the opposition plays with no teeth or recognizes the threat. Always kill a traitor before an enemy, take that as you will.
Honestly, just having "the other side" being hired means the writers can then *bounce ideas off each other* so you don't get random strawmen as villains. You get someone nuanced and "real," or understandable, but twisted by the villainy. For *both sides.* by causing these people to interact, you increase the depth of both sides' comics.
I thought thenhydra cap was an interesting take. I didn't see it with current politics but the idea of hydra actually controlling cap and the fact that he is so capable of bri ging down the heroes was very interesting.
The concept could be interesting, but the problem is that the concept was picked up by Modern Marvel comic writers, who can't figure out whether to model Hydra after Neo-Nazis, the actual Nazis, the news media's "Far Right" boogeymen (who all have oddly-leftist voting track records), or "anyone popular who disagrees with their Marxist views" (like Jordan Peterson or Dave Rubin).
You're almost better off just writing the fan-fic yourself, since at least it would be more accurate to the original character.
I don't think having politics in comics is the problem.
The problem is when you constantly utilize politics in an agressive and divisive way to gaslight your main audience into relevance (it's not like that's something new tho).
I think there's just so much divide nowadays (specially in mainstream media), and if you push too much too one side, eventually you can get a harder retalliation from the other side - and the cycle repeats.
I prefer to stand in a middle ground where it's possible to see each side's points, even if it can be pretty hard sometimes - and I admit, I'm as partial as the next person, so there's that.
The party of tolerance, if you side with them…
I think people are reading green arrow green lantern through rose colored glasses. That book was always written as if green arrow was right, and green lantern was naive. The blue skins/green skins quote comes to mind
Hey, that's still better than not even having the other perspective, or putting a caricature of it in the mouth of the villain so you can break their jaw over it.
We said this for YEARS and got called all sorts of shit. ALL they wanted was to take credit for what other people did... AFTER they fucked it up!
Something people forget with the "x-men were inherently political" view, is that ANYONE could be an X-Men. Nightcrawler was a Catholic who looked like a demon and he fought side by side with Colosus who was an atheist.
It's not just politics but also life in general. Almost every writer is a copy and paste of each other except maybe race and sexuality and even then they try to collect as many as they can like their Pokemon cards. Tolkien's experiences in WWI and growing up in Great Britain during the height of its power shaped LOTR, Ernest Hemingway's crazy and amazing life gave us For Whom the Bell Tolls and Erich Remarque in nationalist Germany and surviving the horrors of war with All Quiet on the Western Front. All these writers from comics to movies to tv have no diversity amongst themselves except the superficial. If asked about upbringing, school, first job or any other experience that would help shape their writing is all the same and it shows.
Politics pertaining to the comic worlds respective situation shows creative writing but when you keep implementing real world politics you become your own agenda, so to speak. Its preferable to exit our current worlds problems to visit another. Bombarding the readers with modern politics only overloads their tolerance and makes them reject the ideas completely. No matter how positive they seem.
Green Arrow's first encounter with Anarky was intriguing. It was amusing to watch Oliver being called out as just another unthinking slave to the system.
I am loving the new intro
.... and to think....it only took a few downed companies, lost of mkt (throu manga) to RELEARN that.
Too bad it's far too late.
Stories and characters are the most important in comics. That is why Naoki Yoshida knows that backstory, motive, and personality need to be the focus on any character, with the outward appearances being only minor.
you know all this reminds me of the animated show, justice league... the universe where they became justice lord. the batman vs batman scene in that episode was something special how one event changes everthing.
At this point these people can have marvel & DC. I’m open to making and buying new comics from different creators.
Seeing some pro or at kessy neutral conservative views in a DC or Marvel comic would be a nice change of pace.
Wally West was a moderate conservative
The problem is that they and them don’t read comics, We do or did 😒
Most of the best protagonists have flaws, most of the best villains have understandable motives.
The leftist bubble that exists in media stifles the creative ability to create deep characters, specifically when it comes to political issues.
When it comes to comics in order for them tobe successful again you need mostly Apolitical Heroic tales, Adventures, and interesting stories and characters, some of which can dip into philosophical moral arguments, Comics that are political should be high quality in the stories and characters before the political elements whether their subtle or not and yes there should be diversity of thought whether moral, philosophical or political for intrigue.
The early days of comic books provided a creative space for Jewish writers and artist who couldn't find work in the wider publishing world. Perhaps comics could become a refuge for the conservative intellectuals that have been sided lined for politics being all raw emotion all the time. An intelligent back and forth of ideas would feel like a bit of escapism.
Movies, Late career Stephen King novels, TV shows, and comic books...why does EVERYTHING have to be used these days to 'TEACH' us MESSAGES? Why can't they simply be ENTERTIANMENT? I mean, honestly, 'Salem's Lot, Night Shift, Shining, all of these books were published by Stephen King and none of them have THE MESSAGE in them. Movies like Body Heat (1981); Back to the Future, Howling, none of them contain The MESSAGE. TV SHOWS 'Charlie's Angels (1978); Waltons; early episodes of Bewitched, Mission Impossible and even Buck Rogers were all entertaining, and did not contain The MESSAGE. Marvel comics from the late 1960s and early 1970s like Inhumans, Avengers, and FF did not contain The Message, and today all of these things are thought of as CLASSICS, but the crap being produced to INDOCTRINATE and SOCIALLY ENGINEER humans is going to be swept into the garbage bin as soon as this PC fever breaks.
Honestly, i don't read Marvel or DC anymore. I'm more into dark horse or boom! stuff because while they are not immune to current ideological trends, they tend to allow more ideologically diverse (lol) stuff.
Sad state of affairs where Common Ground seems to be a slur that will piss of someone into immediate and irrational anger.
Cyclops is for private property and secured boarders. 'Captain America, get off my island.
Less politics more violence
And didnt he make a video about it?
Everything JSG said in this is why i'm keeping an eye on Rippaverse stuff. While the guy does have a lot of one sided ideals he keeps them personal and in his comics focuses on just the story telling, not his belief. As does most of his staff as far as i've heard.
With the Rippaverse succeeding as much as it is maybe it will be a full wake up call to the others in the industry.
Code Geass is not only great, it also goes knee deep in politics. The MC becomes hell-bent on getting rid of a nation that's a derivative of a British empire, but with cool sci-fi elements like giant battle mechs. Definitely recommend seeing Code Geass!
Thank you, for a well, articulated statement. There is too much of closed, thinking we need to be able to see the other person’s opinion whether we agree with it or not.
Thank you for saying it. You don't have to like or read the book that goes against your political views, But having political diversity between things like comics helps. Hell it might even reactivate proper political conversation instead of bashing
Hawk and Dove have a lot of potential!
Making every villain conservative sounds like a business norm.
You make a good point about orthodox industries not succeeding. As you said, Christian music is a counterexample, but the quality and creativity of the music is explicitly secondary to worship.
Even Christian music has its critics
Unless this was a statement from someone in charge of these comics, this article means nothing. I very highly doubt these companies will start looking for people with different views and i really doubt they'll ever include conflicting views in their books using anything other than strawmen.
It’s not jsut the lack of creative openness.
The industry is suffering from being able to get their goods out there as well.
How many people who are interested in comics don’t even have a shop near them which would make it easy to buy them
I've pretty much just dropped fantasy and scifi from my life.
It's sad because they were my entire childhood; but it become quite clear that there are powerful vested interests that don't want there to be any place for me in a community about them.
Conservatives are generally more interested in reality than fiction; I think it's time I focused on that.
Cbr fucking helped this happen every step of the way.
In some cases they lead the charge.
Now they stand back with the crowd
and shake thier heads about the comic world they created.
Let's reward them for good behaviour then
Is it even possible to fairly represent opposing points of view, when everything you have ever been told about them is just lies designed to make you hate them?
This is why Rippaverse #2 just made two million. There needs to be a STORY first, forget politics. I get plenty of politics in daily life, I don't need it in my escapism.
I think out boy has found a new catchphrase
It would be interesting to see a story where the villain is a well meaning dictator who believes they are right to seize power since they believe that they are smart enough to make the world a better place if only they could force everyone to bend to their will.
The only reason they talk about it now is because the writing is on the wall... CBR and the Comics Industry is going down in flames and they (the writers) will soon be replaced by AIs.
All I can say to them is ...TOO LATE!
It's a more obscure indie comics series, but "The Mice Templar" did a fantastic job of writing ideological diversity. A central piece of the story is a doctrinal conflict in a "Crystal Dragon Jesus" version of Christianity adapted to fit the anthropomorphic fantasy setting. The key backstory event in this fantasy series was "The Templar Civil War" where the mice of the Traditionalist and Revisionist factions (it doesn't take much imagination to compare them to Christian conservatives and liberals) let themselves get played like a fiddle by an outside faciton, tore themselves apart in a night of fratricidal madness, and opened the door for an army of rats to take over. As the story progresses, the main character meets characters from both sides of that conflict and realizes that both viewpoints have pros and cons (many Traditionalist beliefs that Revisionists deride as "myths" are quite literally true, many social reforms proposed by Revisionists have at least some merit compared to what hardline Traditionalists consider ideal.) The hero meets admirable and despicable people on both sides, and in the end the story takes the stance that humility, patience, and a willingness to compromise - at least on "things indifferent" - are absolutely critical virtues for a person to possess.
Of course, a critical part of the series excellence is that it can also function perfectly well without this context. The characters and story still make sense within the context of their own world even if you don't know or care about theology or real world comparisons. For all the hot-button issues the story touches upon, it still feels like a STORY and not a political manifesto or religious tract.
We don't need politics in comics. We don't want politics in comics.
Can we just tell stories in which we all can like.
I just need a good guy and a bad guy.
For me, it's all about imagination, you need imagination to see beyond the here and now, fantasy books/shows/movies, like superhero comics/movies/shows, exist in worlds that require some form of applied imagination to work.