Charging My Tesla Model 3 LFP RWD From 0-100%! DCFC Curve Analysis Reveals Surprising Results
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- Опубликовано: 5 мар 2023
- Please Note: Even though I am charging this LFP Model 3 on a V3 Tesla Supercharger, it is widely known that this battery can only pull max of approx 170kW; not 250kW.
After doing an initial 0-100% charge test on 3/4/23, I decided to repeat the test as I was unsure if I had properly pre-conditioned the battery. This LFP battery needs to be warm to receive the max charge. It also powers the car with no degradation all way to 0%. Truly remarkable.
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The best info here is 15% to 60% was 15 minutes, this is prefect for road tripping - nice job Dave.
0-50% in 15min, 0-80% in 30min, 0-100% in 50min looks pretty good to me for a 60kW LFP battery that is not in a summer/hot environment. The car is also one of the most efficient in terms of energy consumption, so every kW added to the battery will get you more distance than most other cars.
@@Fumbiii16 if you can find a working 350 kW CCS station which as RateYourCharge demonstrates is rarely the case
@@Fumbiii16 no it doesn’t. That’s the 10% to 80% best case not the 0-100
@@olemissjim also the ioniq5 is less efficient than the model y
Based on this may be better to make more stops and charge to 80%, then top off with level 2, similar strategy used by may with other evs. Definetly looks like the LFP wants more heat. Great info!
That LFP Model 3 Branden Flasch rented on Turo held 109kW all the way to 77%, but he was in much warmer Texas. I think your speeds were still limited by temperature.
I think they were as well. The little "i" icon was showing up on the screen, most likely indicating that the charge speed was limited by temperature. Odd that the car isn't accounting for this during the charge, because it was warm enough to hit peak speeds right at the beginning of the charge, and could have been heating the battery still.
Agreed temp
Has Brandon posted the charging video? I saw his video about the car, and he mentioned he did a charging test.. But I don't see it on his channel?
Absolutely love and appreciate the thoroughness, Dave! Not many people out there would want to recognize a flaw in their own design and then repeat this lengthy test multiple times for integrity’s sake! Very quickly have become one of my absolute favorite creators! Thank you so much for the hard work!
I took delivery of a LFP Model 3 in February and have also quickly learned that the battery likes to be very, very warm. Maybe that is a symptom of us both being located in the northeast (NJ), but I will catch my car pre-conditioning over an hour away from superchargers, on a regular basis
Who thinks Dave is going to sell this car in next month?😮
95% chance lol
Oh yeah, wouldn’t be surprised.
I would imagine he only bought this to make video content
@@Alexzw92 I say model Y is coming performance.
Dave is going to trade this car in by Summer…
😂
20:25 That's my old stomping grounds. I've used that Darien I-95 Northbound charging site frequently. The rest-stop restaurants (Chipotle, Panera, Subway) are family fast-food favorites on the fly.
Hey Dave. Don’t forget about the efficiency of the LFP. The LFP is actually the fastest charging Tesla because of its efficiency. Don’t get too focused on the kW being pumped in. Look at the miles being pumped in. I struggled with this too, but look at it as miles, you’ll be surprised. And hey what is an extra seven minutes at a supercharger for a car that’s 40k less! That is a lot of steak dinners for Kathy!
An extra 7 minutes is a waste of time. That's unacceptable
@@r.d.9399 nah
Yeah, it's just too bad they don't offer the LFP trim with more range...
@@r.d.9399 I tend to agree.
@@Superman-xr1oh I wish there was a LFP RWD LR Model 3 🤤
But with the current lineup I’m fine with waiting 7 min and keeping like 10k lol
Pretty interesting that the difference between the first and second tests were only 2 minutes. Looks like the battery started thermal throttling mid way through the charge which let the first one catch up pretty good. Glad you did a second test, thanks for the video Dave!
That charge is respectable. 50 minutes from 0-100 is fine, especially for the price and all.
thank you so much. this is the video I have been looking for. Now I just need the range test from out of spec lol
LOL the Star Wars text scroll! Great video and insight on your charging experience. Keep em coming, Dave!
Great work here, yet again Dave, such a pleasant on-screen demeanor. Having done a bunch of Supercharging videos, I have utmost respect for how difficult this is to do correctly. My July testing had me cranking up the heat with my windows open many times, reminding me of my youth, and my numerous scrapes with overheating gas cars.
My wife has a 2020 Model 3 SR+, and she took delivery Dec 2019 at $38K sticker, also getting federal tax incentive and CT's CHEAPR rebate to offset most of the CT Sales tax, so about $40K in total. Funny to see you land in the same trim/color car (this month anyway;), only with newer with LFP instead (and a bit more weight). Here's is definitely more nimble in turns, you can feel the ~400 lb weight loss when taking turns, compared to my 2018 Model 3 LR.
Seeing how the LFP charges is interesting, and has me thinking about what an OBD device would say your battery pack temperature was at before, during, and after those DC fast charges.
Both charge sessions were interestingly about the same in time, so I think a winner both way.
Just a thought, I think on the cars with heat pumps, they scavenge heat from the battery to heat the cabin quickly - maybe that has some impact when you're using the heat to draw down the last few remaining miles from the SOC? Thanks for all the videos!
Thanks for the amazing data set! Could plot temperature as well?
Super useful informatipon. Thank you.
TFTC, and good on ya for double checking your initial results.
So one thing that may have cooled the battery down was blasting the heat right before charging. This is because the heat pump would’ve siphoned heat from the battery to more efficiently heat the cabin, though I’m not sure how big of an impact this would have on the charging curve
If you look in the video the i pops up next to the charging speed on the left side of the display. This states that the battery is cold and charging is slower while battery is warmed. LFP batteries like to be a lot warmer when charging than NMC. It takes a LFP car 45-50 minutes of highway speeds to warm the battery up when it’s colder. I have a LR MY and a RWD M3 and the RWD M3 takes much longer to warm up than the Y on road-trips. Try this again when it’s above 50° and you’ve driven the car harder and it will jump to ~180 kW and hold it deeper into the pack. I’ve learned with LFP it always jumps up super high when you first plug in, but if you watch it start to come right back down it means the battery is coldgating.
Great video! I’m very happy with the efficiency of my lfp 3. It would be cool to see what you think is the most efficient way to road trip the car based on the charging curve. Probably start at 100%, drive as far as you can go close to zero % and then charge back up to 50-60% then take off.
Nice test and thx for the info. This confirm my previus curvers and finding. This Model starts tops around 67% charging from there on Time vs charging crosses.
where other cars time and speed cross around 80%
25:50 - So looking at the two charts, you can see that your second charge started off faster, but from 50% to 80%, your first charging session was faster. This is why, overall, both charging sessions were relatively just as fast, or 50 minutes. I think the takeaway here is that for daily charging, none of this matters. For road tripping, the faster speeds will only matter if you're charging to like 70% or so, then taking off, because the longer you charge, the more it really doesn't matter.
Dave, I see you got Kyle’s memo on rocking the hoodie on all charging content!
Would love to see an updated video for the 2024 RWD LFP, if that is relevant. I have been seeing 90 - 115 kW with preconditioning with a battery level of mid 30s upon arrival, charging to 80%.
Nice video tx Dave regarts from the Netherlands 😊😊
I have seen over 174Kw charging at 5% or less on a warm day, so i am thinking that you will do better when the pack is warmer.
Always find it interesting to monitor ScanMyTesla when Supercharging to see the pack temps before, during and afterward how long it takes the pack temps to drop back down.
The first test was not flawed, we learned something from it in comparison. Great info!
I have same model and after have had a Zoe with only type 2 before with a max of 40kw but most chargers only giving 22kw this is heaven to me and makes longer journeys so much easier
Interesting info. Not sure I understand the excitement with the second session vs the first given it was only a max of 3 minutes faster to a certain state of charge but faster is faster and that's a good thing. Thanks for these videos.
Thanks! Great video. LFP batteries appear to be a good way to go as for cost/benefit for most people.
Thanks Bill!
Great review just got the same Model 3 RWD in the UK this week, I also noticed that I definitely need to get my battery much warmer in this weather for ultra rapid charging, I am using a local non-tesla 350Kw charger until I have a 7KW home charger installed, and the car is too cold to make use of much of the output.
Very good video, Dave.
Honestly, I don't see too much difference between the two charging tests.
assuming that you are on a road trip and your charging stop requires to charge up to 75% for an x leg, there was only a two minutes difference at 75%.
and also a two minutes difference charging to 90%.
Yep I thought the exact same thing.
Dave,
Since this was a 0 % to 100% test, I would very much appreciate if you could indicate the total KWh the vehicle took in, both as indicated by the car and the app. if you retained that data. This would give us an idea of the real world usable size of the Model 3 LFP pack and how much energy is lost between the charger and the car. My wife has a new 2023 Model 3 RWD and I've been very curious about the pack size and characteristics in comparison to my Model Y LR. BTW, thanks for doing the test - your vids very informative.
Dave just a FYI in your first test the station was full. The V3 is great but not perfect. The V3 is a load sharing system so at max capacity the station site would not be able to give you max kW. Thanks for the test.
Very rarely do I see load sharing at V3’s at the bus level across the whole station throttled; only happens when many cars are all charging with low SOC. It’s possible, but unlikely as most cars are all at different SOC’s; some low, some medium, some high; kind of like the 3 bears effect
I had a small Road trip from so cal to Las Vegas, super charging experience was solid. I was pulling 170 or even higher sometimes. Pre conditioning is everything.
I had the same results of slow charging on a “cold” battery.
Bjorn Nyland’s 5/27/22 M3 LFP charging video showed that surprisingly, faster rates of charge (higher kW) were possible from higher starting SOC, i.e. 39%-100% holds 100+kW much longer than 0-100% fastcharging. Best LFP road-trip strategy (fastest) might be charger-hopping from 50%-90% SOC (cycling the upper half of the battery pack, rather than the lower half).
Probably has been mentioned already, but blasting the heat to get down to 0% may undo some of your preconditioning as the cabin heat may be drawn from the battery with a heat pump equipped Tesla!
Dave, did you notice there was a little ‘i’ button next to the charging speed until ~52%. Any idea what it said? EDIT: looks like it appears a number of times throughout all your charging sessions, but less so on the last one (although it did appear briefly). I for one am REALLY curious what it says :)
When the pack is warm and/or in warm weather the charge speed will be somewhat better. It should hit ~170kw around 10-15%. LFP doesn't like to charge fast when the battery is coldish.
OOSDAVE...great license plate!
Since I havn't been here in a while, what happed to the Ioniq 5 & Genesis GV-60?
Although the battery is LFP, I would still stick with the 80% rule as it took 20 minutes for the battery to get from 80% to 100%, which is about 50 miles more. You'd save time by just following Kyle's idea of spending the time faster charging. Nice videos! I'm from Westchester County, NY and love the area.
We got the same exact spec car. I did a same charge starting at 2% and saw exactly the same curve. I thought it was the cold weather but I had drove over 50 mins non stop before we got to the super charger and it was V3 as well by IKEA in long wharf, New Haven. I'd like to mention, the station was EMPTY. I was the only car for about 30-35 mins into the session. I wanted to saw the car charged to 100% in about the same time it took yours. I am curious to know how much miles you're able to drive in winter with 100% charge. Looking forward to see a range test
hey mate like your test. just remend you that in your 1st test you had a full station, and the car next each other share the power.
Great demo. I bought this car for my daily commuter - perfect when overnight charging. For the reasons you showed if i was using this as a long-travel vehicle i'd opt for a long range. Overall for the price of the car minus the rebates/tax incentives you can't beat the value.
What a relief! Don't have to trade it in yet!
I got the exactly the same car and I’ll say those numbers are very accurate
You should get an obd sensor to see the battery temps.
So 23 minutes to go from 55% to 95%...sounds good to me.
That car is good for road tripping. Look at 1000km Bjorn challenge and it complete it in 10.05 hrs in winter. I’m guessing that another 10 to 15 minutes can we shaved off in the summer. That would make it quicker than an Ioniq 5.
Model 3 LFP is a great charger! Really good out of spec style, 5-50%. Even more impressive is kw on plug in at higher state of charge. I’ve seen 135kw at 65%
Also, it never holds peak for very long. Maybe a minute max.
Precondition and a 10% arrival, you’ll hold faster speeds a little longer. Still 0-70% in 26 minutes, that’s essentially standard road trip 10-80%. Not bad!!!
Every time I plug in at 0%, I see similar results to your first test.
I have a 2022 lfp and I've never really had a problem with supercharging being slow. Usually the car is done charging by the time I can go to the bathroom. That's just me though.
I charged my Model 3 SR+ with the 60 kWh LFP battery from 0 - 100 % last December. I warmed up the battery before by accelerating to 200 km/h (125 mph) and using full regen to go back down to 100 km/h (62 mph). I reached 50 % after 14 min. and 50 sec. and 80 % after exactly 26 min. So my charging session had a 10 min. lead after recharging 50 % compared to your first test. That battery was definitely too cold.
Greetings from Germany and have fun with your Model 3!
Hi guys. Sorry for the newbie question. I’m still kinda new to Tesla. I have the M3 SR. I’m little confused about this from Tesla.. it says to keep charge to 100% and fully charge it once a week. Do I plug in every night but not charge every night? Using the Tesla mobile charger on a 240v Nema 14-50. In my garage.
How much range do you get at highway speeds. I get a little over 200 miles going a steady 78 mph. I am happy with this result. With about 10% range left.
Dave, I found out how to determine if the battery is LFP: “Some vehicles are equipped with a Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) Battery. To determine if your vehicle is equipped with an LFP battery, navigate to Controls > Software > Additional Vehicle Information. If your vehicle is equipped with an LFP battery, "High Voltage Battery type: Lithium Iron Phosphate" is listed. If your vehicle does not have an LFP battery, the high voltage Battery type is not specified.”
I noticed at the first charge at 11am the V3 supercharger station was full of cars. Does this impact on the available rate of charge as everyone is drawing power ??
if we can get another cold snap here in CT, very interested to see what the range reduction you see is, off the +/- 270 miles you are seeing now. going back to your first video, the EGPM platform cars added basically the identical amount of KwH's in 18-20 mins. differrent battery chemistry, and different charger output, but interesting comparison. the LFP model 3 with the reliability and ease of supercharger network proves that it's not always about the technology, but often the access.
To know the real charging speed you have to check de C rate of batteries. Having a bigger battery mean having more “space” for more energy in the same amount of time. Tesla peaks at ~ 3.05-3.18C depending on the packs. E-GMP platform maxs out at ~ 3.1 C, so the same as Tesla. For example, the hummer EV, which can accept 350 kW, (not like E-GMP platform that stops at ~240) only get to 1.75C, and yet have double de capacity in the same period of time.
Do you put any PPF or Mudflaps on your Tesla?
Any chance that by charging at a V3 Tesla Supercharger that is full could cause you to not get full power from the cabinet?
I have the 2023 model 3 standard with the LFP battery pack. I don’t she a at home charging station so I just super charge. I always make sure battery is fully preconditioned. When it hits 99 percent then it goes to calibrating it takes about 15-20 mins every time for it to finish calibration. Do you know if it’s safe to just unplug? Or is it really necessary to sit there the extra 20 minutes every charge for it to finish calibrating. Just curious what you do.
I want a father like Dave.😊I appreciate the EV content, but your enthusiasm and good nature is why I keep coming back!
I don't have the data, but I do know our M3RWD (picked up march 2022) was keeping 172 to about 30% last time I used it on a super charger. We had driven about 160 miles beforehand.
What’s the lowest you should run LFP battery to and still keep it healthy?
I’ve noticed too when my says calibrating, it takes forever, I end up just stopping charge, and it then shows 100 percent
Dave love all your videos, to me it looks like the doors on your model 3 have a darker shade of white
Lessons of life if you buy cheap you get cheap.
As some others have mentioned, the battery was likely still cold. I have the same spec car and took it on a road trip the other week when it was around 0 degrees C. The car started preconditioning the battery immediately when I left until the first charging stop almost 2 hours later, even though I had set the departure time in the app so that the car was somewhat preconditioned when I left. So I would guess it’s not enough to start the preconditioning shortly before arriving to the charger if you want to reach the optimal temperature for DCFC. I would assume that with only RWD, the car cannot heat up the battery as quickly as an AWD since it only has one motor to use to generate heat.
(Edit: Missed the last part of the video initially, I see now that you got a better result the second time around 🙂)
Wow, two hours of preconditioning! Did you have the cabin heat cranked way up or something so there was none left for the battery?
Time to trade in the 3 for the S. Tesla just lowered the price on the S and X.
Should we charge it to 100% Daily or keep it around 80-90
Perhaps the more significant stat is that all that driving to get the battery really warm, so that the you could achieve the higher charging rate initially, only resulted in 2 mins less of charging time overall.
Do you have the same graph for the Long Range Model 3?
That's interesting. Maybe it's setup for not going on full speed within first few charging cycles.
I've got an OG Model Y SR, and my charge curves are not as good as yours. I see over 165kW maybe once every 3 charges. I've only seen 170 once or twice over 60k miles, and it tapers off down to 130kW within 60-seconds of the peak rate. Fascinating!
Dave does this model 3 have a heat pump?
One more advantage to the LR. Being able to add 100 miles in 8 minutes is nice.
LFP batteries are great:) I charge these regularly at the 1c rate and don't discharge at more than 2c rate. Life cycles on LFPs is also the best:)
i feel for you; guys in the U.S. you dont' have the ultrosonic sensors on the 2023 model 3 as they do in Australia.
So, if you are in a pinch, can you just charge it up to any random miles or range before your take off for appointment or work or emergency meeting, etc? When I supercharged my X on the go to Disneyland, I just charged for 8 minutes and got enough juice to go around town and I was off to Disneyland. However, for your LFP battery equipped 3, do you have to charge up to either 50% or 100% each time?
Great video as usual. Try charging between 10 and 80% with a preconditioned battery and check that speed, as this is most common.
Very interesting indeed. I’m curious to see this same exact test at a 350killowatt EA station using the CCS adapter. If you find an EA station next to a Supercharger you can still precondition the battery for a proper test. Great work!
Tesla model 3 is limited by the car, not the charger. 170kwh is the highest you'll ever see.
I am in Ireland with the same model. All the newer Teslas here are fitted with CCS as are the Superchargers. I have had my car since Sept and still haven't used one yet.
no service mode battery temperature display?
I'm wondering if there were to many others charging there the 1st time causing things to slow down a bit.
I'd try the test again in warmer weather - like 70F - the cold might be impacting both the battery and the charger.
Congrats on the new car. Clearly the way to go for the world. Yes I think the preconditioning didn’t bring it to optimal temperatures and you should repeat this test when it is warmer. One clarification: Tesla recommends charging to 100% because with LFP batteries voltage hardly changes with charge level and so the BMS needs the 100% experience for calibration. However, this doesn’t mean it is healthy to charge to 100%. It is not. So if you can live with the fact that the SOC indicated may be somewhat off reality, it is best to charge to only 80 or 90%. (My home batteries are LFP and so I know from experience…)
Dave, I remember you saying that all stations were full, does that mean the chargers were sharing?
It’s my understanding is that if you park side by side to another Tesla, you will split the kWh. During the 2nd charging session, there was no other Tesla parked next to you.
I would like to see the charge curve from 10% to 80% state of charge. I don't think I would ever let the state of charge go down to 0% and would always charge between 10 to 20% state of charge. I would also like to see the diffence between a precondition battery pack and a battery pack that is not precondition; what's the difference. Thanks.
I noticed the bays were all full of Teslas. This could affect charge times. Some charging stations are marked A and B, in which case the power is shared between 2 cars. Could that have been the case in your situation?
Lol... I think that was pretty good and pretty fast when you think about it.
Interesting thing is that the battery pack voltage doesn’t change much. If I plug my LFP in at 70%, it will pull 130kW+!… and then follow the same curve.
I have the same car. I live in Chicago and the car loses charge as it is in park. Does this happen to you too?
Maybe because the station was so busy??? How much did this full charge cost? Love your car. #dreamcar
My 2019 Standard Range plus also takes upwards of an hour to fully precondition even with an NMC pack. In the cold (20F or colder) of winter I've seen several examples where 10-20 minutes prior is not enough. You could probably help by doing some yo-yo driving before as well but preconditioning does take a ton longer than I thought. I also lose 8-10% of my range if I precondition but it's still faster to charge that loss up and make sure the battery is really warm. I'm still super happy with the speed since I try to charge 10-80% and it's rarely more than 20-25min. Many places I can't get back fast enough and charge too much.
Interesting, would you happen to know how many kW the battery heater is? Do the new LFP ones have a bigger battery heater?
You’re looking at kWh, but I think you have to look at miles. Seems like a solid charge to me from a mileage perspective
Blasting the heat in cold temperatures would likely scavenger heat from the pack. Possibly part of the issue, but 51 mins for a full charge is well within reason.
my 2019 uk sr plus would charge at 170kw but only for a short part of the battery, from say 15% to 35% aand then would taper. I now have etron55 and that has a flat curve, about 155kw nearly all the way to 90%, see bjorn charging races, etron55 beats lots of new 800v cars
I’ve got a week old car exactly like yours and have seen 170kw charge rate in mild weather at a V2. I’m thinking it will not precondition with an extremely low battery as you seem to have proved.
Incredible tesla with such smaller battery pack, you can go 272 mikes on charge. No other mfg, can even come close.
The efficiency is incredible, I get over 4mi/kWh without even trying and not driving slowly.
@@zguy95135 I believe it
Does battery preconditioning stop below a certain state of charge to provide more range?
Yes it will turn off to preserve range.