I loved the suspence that takes place between Karrde and Thrawn on Myrkr. Karrde trying to keep Luke, Han and Lando hidden while Thawn pays Karrde a visit personally. Having a lot more fun reading this a second time.
17:18 Oh I very nearly forgot about Lando's role in the Corellian trilogy. Didn't he ask Luke to accompany him as he planned to embark on some business scheme to get married?
Before I’ve started reading The Thrawn Trilogy I was worried because of how much it was praised that it wouldn’t leave up to my expectations. Well my worries were for naught because I loved this book. Yeah it’s pretty mucho mostly setting up but it was done so good. The character from the movies all felt like themselves and that they have also grown as persons. Thrawn is a fantastic villain with C’baoth providing with a good unstable villain. Talon Karrde and Pellaeon were also nice additions to the SW universe. And finally what I would call the main attraction in this trilogy, Mara is just my favorite character in the EU and by the end of the book I wanted to know more about her.
My first introduction to the EU was The Truce at Bakura and the X-Wing books, but the Thrawn trilogy really cemented my love for Star Wars. Everything feels *right*, and Mara is my absolute fave.
oh my gosh. I've always said that Thrawn and Pellaeon we're villainous versions of Holmes and Watson. I've never heard anyone else express that same idea though. It's quite cool to find out I'm not the only one who thinks so.
I never read the "New Canon", but yea, I think of Thrawn, not as Holmes, but kind of as Moriarty I also like that he never was a mustache twirling villain. I like Zahn's take on the clones. I know this was before the prequels, so he had to make up what the clone wars are in his head, but in a way, I actually liked it better (or maybe it's just because I had 10+ years of thinking of the clone wars in my mind as being this vision of it before Episode II came out.) *By the way, I am sorry for all the comments, but I tend to pause a video and comment as it is fresh in my mind rather than making a huge one later. This is partially because I have noticed that if I make a very large comment with a variety of subjects, people never will reply on every subject I bring up, and will typically only address the last one I wrote about*
I think I preferred the pre-prequels timeline for the Clone Wars, because everything (the wars, the rise of the Empire) wasn't condensed into a few short years. It makes more sense to me that way. And I don't mind multiple comments at all!
@@MegReviews I actually like the idea of the clones being preprogramed to turn on the Jedi in that I think it makes sense that they wouldn't sense hostile thought because they were just acting as programmed. I did think that there would be more of a hunt for them though. One thing that I always say though is that for someone so smart, Palpatine was stupid. I mean Anakin's trigger is his family. (The first time he touched the dark side was when he killed those who tortured his mom. And feelings for his wife swayed him, so how did the Emperor think he could kill his son in such a way that it was obvious he was getting malicious glee out of it in front of Vader!? Another thing about the prequels that I thought would be a neat twist-is if Chancellor Palpatine was a clone of Darth Sidious. That way, the Jedi wouldn't have sensed him (because he wasn't evil but was just an unwitting dupe of Sidious), and I really feel that twist might be almost as good as the Empire Strikes Back's "I Am Your Father" because every fan (myself including) knew he was the baddie from the first film. *I remember in 1999 watching it on opening night when Palps said he would watch Anakin's career with great interest everyone laughed because they "got" the joke. The joke would have been on them if it went the way of him being an innocent clone*
The fact that it was old classic star wars ,before the prequels ,makes it more charming of a book series, i can't remember much of the other two because i still have this one, not sure if it still holds up in story compared to now
Excellent Review! Heir to the Empire is my first EU novel - I finished it last week in fact. I'm reading Dark Force Rising now. I didn't enjoy the book as much as most Star Wars fans though. Zahn's writing style is totally spartan and misses the visual poetry of the films by quite a wide mark imo. I'm not expecting Alfred Bester levels of prose-style, but as a sequel to "a movie trilogy" I was hoping for something more...like a movie I guess. Your comment about Leia's costumes hit home for me. Heir to the Empire felt more like the first third of a Meganovel, rather than a story that could stand alone like Episode IV or even Episode I. The structure of the book went something like this: C1-8 Wayland / Bimmisaari C9-16 Dagobah/ Nkllon C17-24 Kashyyyk /Myrkr /Part 1 C25-32 Kashyyyk / Myrkr Part 2 The Myrkr "arc" or "act" is clearly the part that most fans remember, as it takes up half of the book. The Bimmisaari mini-arc seemed rather pointless. But perhaps when I finish the trilogy I will find that Zahn sprinkled foreshadowing across the whole thing. On a personal note, I'm also a jedi-nut, so the lack of Jorus C'baoth later on in the book AND taking away Luke's force powers was a big NOOOOOO from me. Although I can almost forgive it for providing a genuinely great escape scene involving a certain character's robotic hand :)
Thanks! For me (and probably a lot of fans) the Thrawn trilogy is so imbued with nostalgia that it's hard to look closely at its faults (like Zahn's plain prose, the weakness of the first half, and the excessive references to the Original Trilogy). I hope you enjoy Dark Force Rising!
Ok, went on with my thoughts to your statement way longer than intended. Sorry. I digress a bit below As to Mara Jade's cat suit. It wasnt in the books. That was all Star Wars Insider as far as I recall. She didnt have a cat suit on the cover of Last Command either (nor Vision of the Future by Timothy Zahn either). Timothy Zahn gave Mara Jade a sleeve gun. Kinda hard to hide that in a cat suit... heck Star Wars Insider didnt even give her sleeves. They got everything wrong but unfortunately it stuck in the fandomscollective minds (basically they got her height, size, and hair color and style wrong too). As to the lack of women. That was George Lucas. He had an interview in Starlog magazine issue 127 in 1988: "STARLOG: We all noticed your lack of women in the Star Wars trilogy. Are you going to bring in more women for future Star Wars films? George Lucas: Well, what of Princess Leia? When you making a war film, how are you going to put women in it? Think of other war films, think of the Longest Day, those films. Well, it's your galaxy; I have to go with the rest of the world. And still make it believable. I'm not sure how many women will be in the rest of the films; that's the kinda of thing plots dictate. What would Star Wars have been if Han Solo had been a woman?." So basically women had to have plot reason to be there but men didn't. Hence the lack of women in the original trilogy. Zahn was tasked to build upon that, hence the start of the anti-alien and anti-women notions in the Empire. Zahn did more anti-alien stuff than other authors who more hit home the anti-woman bigotry too, but it was implied via Zahn. The issue was Mara was his main voice to this but she had been a brainwashed child/teen back when she served the Emperor. However Zahn purposefully created Mara Jade because of the lack of women with trained force powers in the movies. His choices in the Clone wars... was based upon what Lucas told him his ideas for the Prequels at the time. Zahn stated Lucas simply changed his mind since then and it was his prerogative to do so. Hence, the discrepancies of the Clone Wars described between the thrawn trilogy and the Clone Wars TV show plus the prequels. Legends, the Expanded Universe, retconned things in some minor stories and comics to state other manufacturers besides Kamino built clones for the Republic too. Thus implying the other methods were less stable but used nonetheless, mostly by local systems and not the Republic. Thrawn's clones where from those manufacturers tech. Hey, Lucas paid people to get canon to line up. It's why the Non-canon Marvel comics character Lumiya, aka Shira Elan Colla Brie, was recanonized (thus giving Legends two redhead Emperor's Hands). If they could fix something or bring something back into canon they did. However she was non-canon until the books brought her back. Zahn's interpretation of dancer for Mara is the same as yours. She has an athletic body. She's basically a petite but physically strong woman with orange hair (Red-gold... get it. Yeah, spacey words like Jacen = Jason) and green eyes. Its basically comic book marketing syndrome that causes the looks to be way off from the books actual words. It doesn't matter how unsexy an outfit you designed for your heroine, an artist will eventually super oversex it (or make a guy so buff it looks like he could take on Superman). Hence Mara becoming a very tall dark red head with giant breasts and bare arms. The best way to make peace with this is treating characters like comics fans do when a favorite gets written very poorly, just remember they're basically campfire stories and occasionally you'll get an author who will tell a bad one. ...Spoilers below... You're both right and wrong about writers not having a plan for Mara after Zahn. Mara was Zahn's character and he didnt want others to touch her. So he wrote her out to go off to the Smugglers Alliance, but Luke kept getting bad female relationships after that where the girls died or left him... and the fans loved Mara. So she kept making minor appearances. By 1997 Star Wars Kevin J Anderson knew Luke was gonna marry Mara Jade, though that didnt happen in the books until 1999. Star Wars Insider confirmed that via Pablo Hildgo. Basically he stated Zahn got permission to hook up Luke and Mara (to stop the insanity of Luke's love life and line up with Lucas's drafts, at the time, of Luke having kids). Now Kevin was releasing the Young Jedi Knights young reader books at the time, set 2 years after Luke would marry Mara. However to maintain the suprise of the marriage, Kevin never included Mara in his books (which likely suited him just fine as he broke them up in Jedi Academy trilogy and hooked Mara up with Lando). So basically Luke would appear having implied coming from doing something else Jedi related and help Jacen and Jaina Solo then disappear, but open enough that maybe he was with Mara then). So yes, no one knew what to do with her, at least until Timothy Zahn came back. I'd say Michael Stackpole did the next best job with her character after Zahn because he at least kept her fairly complex and not just an bland kickbutt warrior woman. Dont get me wrong, others occasionally got her good at times but they often had problems with her interpretation too. Anyways the Bantam era was basically way too many cooks in the kitchen, all with radically different plans but all trying to do nothing too impactful besides the Solo kids. Hence Luke having every girl die on him or leave him. Lucasbooks was basically approving way too many books without much editorial oversight. It lead to lots of characters that stayed around for decades but there was absolutely no plan for any main running plot. It was the Del Rey era where the books get very much more outlined in advance. However the issue here was random Lucas vetoes or singular authors that would try to force the plot to go their way against all other authors wishes (these two things combined are what lead to Mara Jade's death in the books). Anyways Zahn knew how hard working in groups like this was so opted out and to write his own trilogies. Zahn was writing a trilogy set after Legacy of the Force series about Luke and Mara, when they killed off Mara due to Lucas vetoing. We dont know the exact details but the between the line statements best educated guess basically goes he vetoed Tenel Ka's death for being too close to Padme dying (as Jacen basically was already copying Anakin's downfall, so his wife dying too was a bridge too far) and killing off his young daughter didnt set well with Lucas. Karen Traviss, who hated anything other than Mandalorians and especially Jedi, wanted to kill a jedi. She suggested Mara die. Every other author objected knowing her popularity, but Lucas asked if she could pull it off. She smugly said yes. Lucas adjourned the meeting. Anyways Timothy Zahn who wasnt there wasnt told. He got very upset as he basically wasted a lot of time writing the story he set up at the end of the Thrawn duology (Luke, Mara, and family hunt for Thrawn's other potential clones and the threat he was implying was in the unknown regions, which wasnt the Vong). He was still contracted for books though, and instead wrote Mara Jade Prequels. The catch with the Del Rey era was kinda the opposite. They had good plans, that occasionally got wrenches thrown in them. However they basically didnt add more than a few new major characters beyond a few per series and just recycled lots of Bantam era characters where there was more originality (minus maybe the New Jedi Order). Basically Del Rey had risk aversion besides a few circumstances, they still had too many cooks with divering opinions but at least they more often than not worked together now. Bantam and Del Rey got really messed up by Dark Horse comics too. They'd thrown wrenches at them. Dark Empire set up Luke falling to darkness, which meant Bantam era writers had to incorporate it. Del Rey got thrown off by Darth Krayt and the Legacy comics. Now Jaina Solo basically had to marry Jagged Fel, Luke had to die, the order had to be wiped out again, Cad Skywalker had to be born (and now that Mara died it basically meant Ben Skywalker had to have a kid, unless they wanted 60 year old Luke fathering another kid) and nothing could happen with Allana Solo as she seemingly had no offspring that survived (though Legacy series 2 seemed to retcon that one, but Disney canceled the EU then so it never got confirmed).
I did not know about Zahn preparing another trilogy post Legacy, that's rather disappointing that it was cancelled (though I am happy we were spared more Thrawn clones, the Thrawn obsession got tiring by Survivor's Quest). The Legacy comics were fun while released, but they ensured the post-NJO era was absolutely dour. And by FOTJ we got Sith overload. Kind of sad at the end. But I absolutely agree with your perspective on the Del Rey era, it was an era with interesting ideas that just kept getting trampled by author disagreements or LF veto. We never really got to go down any long character diversions because every author had their pet character and LF didn't seem to actually care who got explored, so Jaina ended up underdeveloped, Jacen had completely frazzled motivations, Tenel Ka was forgotten three quarters of the time, Luke and Ben were useless till FOTJ and Vestara was a really interesting character when Golden wrote her and a psycho when anyone else touched her story.
@@12345deviant Yeah, Zahn had been pushing for it since at least 2005. Which was before Legacy of the Force even got released and while Dark Nest was still being released. He mentioned all the time at signings. Fans were really hyped about it. Anyways he asked the publisher a direct question only a few months before the release of Sacrifice and that's when they admitted to him Mara Jade was set to die. They kept it hidden from him for years apparently, all while he was planning quite publicly his next adventure that he had set up since the Hand of Thrawn duology in 1998. Apparently he was suspecting something they were hiding due to asking a direct question but it wasnt Mara Jade getting killed if I read betweenthe lines correctly based on his comments after Sacrifice was released. Zahn got really upset, its basically the only time he spoke up against the powers that be. Stating if they wanted her dead, he should have been given the right to kill her, he would have done it (and implied done it far better). boards.theforce.net/threads/timothy-zahn-would-love-to-write-a-book-about-ben-skywalker-in-the-legacy-era-thread.21102529/ I'm personally not a fan of a Thrawn clone storyline either, all things being equal, unless it was set say right after The Thrawn trilogy and Captain Pellaeon had him created believing he was the original as that would have logically made sense for Captain Pellaeon to have done and logically might have had access to at least some cloning tanks as Thrawn was planning on cloning C'Baoth at a secure location. Which imho would have been a far more interesting storyline than a Clone set to return a decade later to save the galaxy from the dangers of the unknown regions. That said, all things aren't equal and I think I would have rather swallowed another Thrawn clone and the dangers in the Unknown Regions than how much LotF ruined most of the characters. Honestly Luke Skywalker was only worthy of being a Jedi Master in the Troy Denning era when he was doing more Timothy Zahn stuff of exploring the Galaxy looking for answers in Fate of the Jedi... Timothy Zahn in contrast always wrote Luke Skywalker incredible and he was by far the best writer of Mara Jade. I personally suspect he would have written Jacen Solo, Jaina Solo, and Ben Skywalker incredible as well. His Leia was a bit more of a plot device when she was still a politician but I'd have loved for him to have a chance at writing her a Jedi Knight. ...and I totally agree with you about how Troy Denning and to lesser degree Aaron Allston treated Vestara Khai. Only Christina Golden got her right.
Wow I know it's been a long time since you wrote this comment. I just discovered this channel and wanted to watch this review. I didn't know all that stuff about Timothy's on wanting to write another trilogy for Luke and Mara. I would have loved to have read that. I've tried some of the NJO but I'm not sure it's for me. A little too bloodthirsty. And I find Timothy's on storytelling more charming. It makes me think that Mara's character is one that was dealt a dirty hand.
@@JenniferKokoski NJO is quite bloodthirsty, at least until book 13-19 when it gets very hopeful again... often Legends fans will say it's Dark but with hope never fading. The books after that (Dark Nest trilogy, Legacy of the force, Fate of the Jedi, and Crucible), know as Denningverse, are way darker with no hope at all. The male characters are basically Dark Mary Sues, and female characters just exist to have sex with male characters then conveniently die so the male characters can have feels about their deaths. It's this storyline where they killed off Mara Jade without telling Timothy Zahn, knowing full well he was writing a book series set after it where Mara Jade was still alive. Worse Mara's death actually undermines the prophecy of who would die, it was supposed to be the killers greatest love, but instead it was warped into the mother of his apprentice who already hated him and who also was planning on killing him to protect his greatest love. Yeah, it is as stupid as it sounds, and they spent multiple pages trying to bullshit it into making some sense. So a twenty year long planned out storyline was scrapped overnight because two authors went behind another two authors backs and sabotaged their ongoing story, so they could instead control where the story went afterwards... and it lead to a space tentacle eldrich monster that wanted to make Luke Skywalker her husband and steal his son too. She also took over the body of one of his exs and also appeared in Luke's dreams as mara and pretended she was her ghost giving him ghost sex so he wouldn't be lonely. This is why so many EU fans say Legends ends with either Survivors Quest by Timothy Zahn or New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force by James Luceno. As Denningverse is basically just bad fanfic. And yes, Mara was delt a very dirty hand (they even revealed later she went to hell, where she just relived her death over and over)... but so too was nearly every other established character. Jacen, and Luke probably being the other two that you know about done nearly as bad as Mara. Zahn really does capture the charm of Star Wars, other authors like Denning and Traviss just write morbidly dark ad nauseam for the sake of shock value and to gaslight previous stories.
@@jonathanryan9946 I've read survivor's quest and Vector prime but that is as far as I've gotten other than reading summaries of the books that follow. Oh I did start star by star just so I could see how poor Anakin Solo dies. Thank you for all the information on the Denningverse. The reason why I stayed away from reading the EU books for so long is because I thought they would be that very weird depressing sci-fi horror stuff that came out over the last 20 years. It just does not interest me. I know a lot of fans enjoy that sort of thing. And they look for a very grim sort of Star Wars in movies and TV. But I'm still that impressionable 7-year-old girl inside whenever I watch Star Wars. It's a fairy tale to me with heroes and villains knowing that the heroes will always triumph in the end.
I just recently read this book, and enjoyed it a lot. (read+ audiobook version) at the same time. Mostly because, I didn't know how to pronounce half the planets/character names... Joruus C'Baoth is e.g. pronounced JOrus SA-ba-yoth by the narrator... good review btw.
I'm glad you enjoyed HttE--Marc Thompson's narration is wonderful! (I listened to the audiobook for the first time a few months ago, and the pronunciation of C'Baoth's name is fascinating/boggling to me; I would have never figured that out phonetically.)
Han and Leia references "the committee" makes sense to me because that is when they fell in love. On top of that, it would be even more poignant because it was during a time of galactic import. Imagine if a couple met during WWII (let's say as part of the French Resistance). Not only would the memory of their romance be sharp with them, but also, the fact that they were in a life-or-death situation during that time would lend it spice. And even the fact that they never explained it to Luke I can buy, since it would be THEIR moment, THEIR private joke. I can see a couple especially cherishing that they share something no one else has (maybe I'm a romantic) Oh, as much as I like Zahn's clone war explanation, I do have to say that Leia's "aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper?" from Ep IV makes a lot more sense to me since the prequels came out. I ALWAYS thought that was a stupid thing to say to a soldier that was just part of a group that tortured you, (besides the false bravado), but now it seems a legit question as all the clones would be the same size (and I will assume that maybe the stormtroopers were still batches of clones-that would explain why they seemed cool with Vader leading them attacking Hoth base unlike the Imperial navel officers that always seemed VERY nervous with Vader (not just the head guys, but even the crewmen in the alcoves looked askance at him)
interesting that you bring up the clone wars in this, originally cause Lucas would approve or disapprove of topics in novels back then to control canon. He didn't know what to do about the clone wars back then so in most novels the clone wars were only talked about in past-tense. or at least extremely vague descriptions. originally the clone wars were about the Jedi Vs. the clones, with no description as to where they came from.. with Lucas created episode one and the drafts for the prequels then it became more obvious as to what he was gonna do with the clone wars. but the whole idea was the same the emperor was just a simple politician who ended up destroying the republic, etc. etc., but i always will love the EU for their vision of the clone wars cause it seemed so gruesome when talked about.
I couldn't wait to read this trilogy. I read "The Truce at Bakura" and I think a little of "Courtship of Princess Leia". But they gave me the happy ending I was searching for. For the characters Luke, Leia, and Han. I watched the Disney sequel trilogy interest, and thought they sucked, and gave away all my Star Wars stuff. I didn't like how the Luke, Leia, and Han stories were pretty much a "Bad ending" in video games. Now I only like "Empire Strikes" back, "Return of the Jedi", and The Thrawn Trilogy, Motion Comic version by "nathans6486", and the new CGI version, by DarthAngelus. I didn't like the stilted dialogue, of "A New Hope", "You there, come here." "I don't remember ever owning a droid". For 'Empire', and 'Return' they dumped the religion aspects of the Force and it made for a better story. I didn't like the prequels. I always hated 'good guy goes bad' stories. Thanks for your review.
Funny how you mention Shira Bree. She'll be touched on in a much later time in this timeline. I never really thought about the lack of females, but it really goes along with the original trilogy (how many females do you see besides Leia? I can only remember a girl working in the command centre on Hoth, and Mon Mothma) But you have to understand that sci-fi was long thought of as a boy's genre. And I guess that may be offensive today, but I don't think it was ever meant to be
I know Shira Brie showed up in a later series (maybe Legacy of the Force?), but my memories of that one are a little hazy. I don't think the lack of women was intentional or malicious, just that most sci-fi authors didn't even think about how many of their background or secondary characters were men. The original trilogy was definitely a male-centric environment!
The feline grace of Mara described by Zahn might feature some sex appeal but I always thought that, not only it featured high competence in how to move in a room, be discreet, stealthy and calculating, it showed also some refinement in execution, she loves a challenge for sure but above all she loves a work well executed she thrives in excellence. Talon Karrde being a calculating man of refinement as well notices that instantly, he even never seemed to initiate innuendo towards her ever. (he might be asexual or gay for what we know or too much of a red pilled calculator to actually care about sexual encounters, evenless with his subordinates since he always thrives for excellence as well and probably doesn't want anything to be turned against him. Aside from the fact that Mara was raised and trained by Palpatine himeself, she was abducted and we never know anything about her original family... sh might as well be the daughter of a farmer than a daughter of an Imparial aristocrat for what we know. Oh and it is definitely hinted especially in Dark Force Rising and Last Command that she could act as Giesha as cover for her job for the Emperor so she might very well knows how to use her body to distract adversaries... She's still seen by other men as a very beautiful woman. Oh about the Clone Wars, Obi-Wan mentioned being part of it with Anakin so it can't have taken place 40 years before ANH. And Anakin's downfall although quite fast in RotS is a result of a 14 years grooming by Palpatine himself setting Ani to become Darth Vader. About references, the Thrawn trilogy being of the first EU materials ever, he didn't have anything else to reference unless inventing events that would constraint other writers to refer to as well... When I read the book for the first time, I couldn't get my eyes away from it.
I've always thought that a lot of the art of Mara (especially the super "cheesecake" ones) fail to portray how chameleon-like her appearance could be, thanks to her Hand training. I think she'd be like the Mata Hari--it'd be hard to link her Court appearances with her disguises on missions or even her usual self, because she's good at adapting to situations. (Her Court persona was probably also useful for downplaying her competence--although she's so proud of her role and her authority when she relates it to Luke, I can see her also getting internally frustrated when others underestimated her.)
Even if they were the only female characters there the important thing to keep in mind is that they were more than two dimensional mouth pieces for someone's agenda. They were just well written characters that happened to be women. Which in my view is the absolute best way to write ANY character. Just make them interesting, worry about their gender "IF" and only if that aspect of their personality is relevant to the story line. Romance isn't necessary just because you put two people together in an intense situation. And we for sure don't need sxual tension just because a double X and Y chromo are in the same room. While I see your point as a woman reading a series that doesn't have a lot of women in it, I don't think you should second guess why you like Mara Leia and Mothma, or Calista Qui Zux or any other female characters as they were added to the story lines. I didn't like Lando just because he was the only non white that became a main character in the movies and books. I liked him because he was more than the betraying self centered guy, and more than the black guy. He was a person with depth that didn't do his friend dirty out of cowardice or avarice. Rather, because he had a community that he honestly thought he was protecting. But as soon as he saw he was not going to be able to help anyone he turned against the empire and joined the, as Mark Hamil called them, the brotherhood of the brave.
I have to disagree, the main baddie kills his men to show off how "eeeevil" he is was just a star wars thing. If we don't get annoyed by Vader doing it three times in Empire we can't hold it against Zahn for putting Thrawn in that position in his first book. He was learning like all new writers in a series. As for the inside joke with Han and Leia about the committee thing; meh you and i both know people who, to the point of distraction, will repeat their inside jokes with their family and friends. that's just a people thing that happens. No different than every movie and nearly every book having someone repeat the i have a bad feeling about this line. Or saying may the force be with you for that matter. So glad to hear a SW fan who is put off by the dance dance light saber fights and prefer the duels that are character-centrist rather than superpower directed.
Thanks--and enjoy the comic! :) I haven't read the comic in years, but I remember the artwork (I think the Noghri reminded me of Hellboy, stylistically at least).
@@MegReviews I can certainly see that connection. Yes they are much more fearsome than how Rukh was visualised in Rebels. I really wanted to see those 'needle-sharp teeth' which Zahn often describes in the book...
Meg, I love your reviews. Here is a memory that I have of reading this trilogy (about 20 years ago) - I recall that Zhan explains that Palpatine was at the core, a racist (hence not anyone of color in the officer core), a male chauvinist (hence, not any women - Mara Jade the exception), and a Xenophobe (hence, only humans serving and Thrawn being placed at the fringe of the Galaxy). This reflects the look of the first movie Trilogy. In more recent years, we see more female characters in both the New Republic and the Empire. It did not surprise me that Thrawn's background would be rewritten. By the way, Thrawn and Mara Jade became instant hits with me as a fan. I always want more about them. Thanks again for this great review.
I'm coming to realize that Zahn is an acquired taste--you either connect with his books & characters and his writing style, or you don't. (Fortunately there's so many different SW authors to chose from!)
@@MegReviews True. I think TZ is an author that distantly reminds me, in a favorable sense, of prolific science fiction author Alan Dean Foster and I absolutely love his novelization of 1977 Star Wars. What repels me from TZ and even ADF and every other wannabe writer are the recycling of OT material.
5:55 I think your premise is based on a false assumption. There is no gender parity in the Empire. We see not a single lady in Imperial Uniform in the Original Trilogy; or non-human for that matter. Zahn observed that, and what Palleon is commenting on is that now, 5 years after the Battle of Endor, that there are now young women, and Thrawn is an exception for the non-human side. This is how it was in the EU for a long time. There were exceptions and the coined phrase is those Imperials were from the "Non-huMan Track". Later Star Wars branched out a bit from this to add a little diversity, such as we see in the more "recent" Zahn novels as you mentioned. When Heir came out, my friends and I were so excited! We were already playing West End Games' Star Wars The RolePlaying Game, the same one that Zahn used to flesh out details and background info for his trilogy
Hmm, I don't remember many droids either besides R2-D2 and C-3PO. We get the agricultural droids on Honoghr and some working droids, but not any with designations and personalities.
I wholeheartedly agree with your comments about the characters quipping A New Hope references throughout the book, for me it really makes it feel forced! Surely other things have happened since then?
Let’s just ignore all the female characters are either in charge of an entire government and are respected leaders and the other was respected and capable enough to be PALPATINE’S right hand. But whatever not enough I guess.
Representation of any kind is not about how great or powerfull the characters are, but about giving a variety of characters. If you have a group of people, who make up about 50% of humanity then about 50% of the human characters should be female. That doesn't mean that an author should count how many of their characters are wich gender, but 5 out of 28 named characters is no where near 50%.
I think the new Thrawn novels are still worth reading! They're set in the period between the prequel and original trilogies, and the first book covers his rise within the Empire.
Yes, I loved Thrawn in Rebels! I prefer when he's the villain (as opposed to Zahn's later attempts to justify his actions), and Thrawn in seasons 3 and 4 was wonderfully ruthless--with the Ahsoka show coming out next year (maybe??), I'm due for a rewatch.
@@MegReviews same here, im wondering who they will get to play thrawn in a live action series. Honestly he was the best villain in Rebels and thats saying a lot
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I loved the suspence that takes place between Karrde and Thrawn on Myrkr. Karrde trying to keep Luke, Han and Lando hidden while Thawn pays Karrde a visit personally. Having a lot more fun reading this a second time.
17:18 Oh I very nearly forgot about Lando's role in the Corellian trilogy. Didn't he ask Luke to accompany him as he planned to embark on some business scheme to get married?
Before I’ve started reading The Thrawn Trilogy I was worried because of how much it was praised that it wouldn’t leave up to my expectations. Well my worries were for naught because I loved this book. Yeah it’s pretty mucho mostly setting up but it was done so good. The character from the movies all felt like themselves and that they have also grown as persons. Thrawn is a fantastic villain with C’baoth providing with a good unstable villain. Talon Karrde and Pellaeon were also nice additions to the SW universe. And finally what I would call the main attraction in this trilogy, Mara is just my favorite character in the EU and by the end of the book I wanted to know more about her.
My first introduction to the EU was The Truce at Bakura and the X-Wing books, but the Thrawn trilogy really cemented my love for Star Wars. Everything feels *right*, and Mara is my absolute fave.
oh my gosh. I've always said that Thrawn and Pellaeon we're villainous versions of Holmes and Watson. I've never heard anyone else express that same idea though. It's quite cool to find out I'm not the only one who thinks so.
I never read the "New Canon", but yea, I think of Thrawn, not as Holmes, but kind of as Moriarty
I also like that he never was a mustache twirling villain.
I like Zahn's take on the clones. I know this was before the prequels, so he had to make up what the clone wars are in his head, but in a way, I actually liked it better (or maybe it's just because I had 10+ years of thinking of the clone wars in my mind as being this vision of it before Episode II came out.) *By the way, I am sorry for all the comments, but I tend to pause a video and comment as it is fresh in my mind rather than making a huge one later. This is partially because I have noticed that if I make a very large comment with a variety of subjects, people never will reply on every subject I bring up, and will typically only address the last one I wrote about*
I think I preferred the pre-prequels timeline for the Clone Wars, because everything (the wars, the rise of the Empire) wasn't condensed into a few short years. It makes more sense to me that way.
And I don't mind multiple comments at all!
@@MegReviews I actually like the idea of the clones being preprogramed to turn on the Jedi in that I think it makes sense that they wouldn't sense hostile thought because they were just acting as programmed. I did think that there would be more of a hunt for them though.
One thing that I always say though is that for someone so smart, Palpatine was stupid. I mean Anakin's trigger is his family. (The first time he touched the dark side was when he killed those who tortured his mom. And feelings for his wife swayed him, so how did the Emperor think he could kill his son in such a way that it was obvious he was getting malicious glee out of it in front of Vader!?
Another thing about the prequels that I thought would be a neat twist-is if Chancellor Palpatine was a clone of Darth Sidious. That way, the Jedi wouldn't have sensed him (because he wasn't evil but was just an unwitting dupe of Sidious), and I really feel that twist might be almost as good as the Empire Strikes Back's "I Am Your Father" because every fan (myself including) knew he was the baddie from the first film. *I remember in 1999 watching it on opening night when Palps said he would watch Anakin's career with great interest everyone laughed because they "got" the joke. The joke would have been on them if it went the way of him being an innocent clone*
The fact that it was old classic star wars ,before the prequels ,makes it more charming of a book series, i can't remember much of the other two because i still have this one, not sure if it still holds up in story compared to now
Excellent Review! Heir to the Empire is my first EU novel - I finished it last week in fact. I'm reading Dark Force Rising now. I didn't enjoy the book as much as most Star Wars fans though. Zahn's writing style is totally spartan and misses the visual poetry of the films by quite a wide mark imo. I'm not expecting Alfred Bester levels of prose-style, but as a sequel to "a movie trilogy" I was hoping for something more...like a movie I guess. Your comment about Leia's costumes hit home for me. Heir to the Empire felt more like the first third of a Meganovel, rather than a story that could stand alone like Episode IV or even Episode I.
The structure of the book went something like this:
C1-8 Wayland /
Bimmisaari
C9-16
Dagobah/
Nkllon
C17-24
Kashyyyk /Myrkr /Part 1
C25-32
Kashyyyk / Myrkr Part 2
The Myrkr "arc" or "act" is clearly the part that most fans remember, as it takes up half of the book.
The Bimmisaari mini-arc seemed rather pointless. But perhaps when I finish the trilogy I will find that Zahn sprinkled foreshadowing across the whole thing.
On a personal note, I'm also a jedi-nut, so the lack of Jorus C'baoth later on in the book AND taking away Luke's force powers was a big NOOOOOO from me. Although I can almost forgive it for providing a genuinely great escape scene involving a certain character's robotic hand :)
Thanks! For me (and probably a lot of fans) the Thrawn trilogy is so imbued with nostalgia that it's hard to look closely at its faults (like Zahn's plain prose, the weakness of the first half, and the excessive references to the Original Trilogy). I hope you enjoy Dark Force Rising!
Ok, went on with my thoughts to your statement way longer than intended. Sorry. I digress a bit below
As to Mara Jade's cat suit. It wasnt in the books. That was all Star Wars Insider as far as I recall. She didnt have a cat suit on the cover of Last Command either (nor Vision of the Future by Timothy Zahn either).
Timothy Zahn gave Mara Jade a sleeve gun. Kinda hard to hide that in a cat suit... heck Star Wars Insider didnt even give her sleeves. They got everything wrong but unfortunately it stuck in the fandomscollective minds (basically they got her height, size, and hair color and style wrong too).
As to the lack of women. That was George Lucas. He had an interview in Starlog magazine issue 127 in 1988:
"STARLOG: We all noticed your lack of women in the Star Wars trilogy. Are you going to bring in more women for future Star Wars films?
George Lucas: Well, what of Princess Leia? When you making a war film, how are you going to put women in it? Think of other war films, think of the Longest Day, those films. Well, it's your galaxy; I have to go with the rest of the world. And still make it believable. I'm not sure how many women will be in the rest of the films; that's the kinda of thing plots dictate. What would Star Wars have been if Han Solo had been a woman?."
So basically women had to have plot reason to be there but men didn't.
Hence the lack of women in the original trilogy. Zahn was tasked to build upon that, hence the start of the anti-alien and anti-women notions in the Empire. Zahn did more anti-alien stuff than other authors who more hit home the anti-woman bigotry too, but it was implied via Zahn. The issue was Mara was his main voice to this but she had been a brainwashed child/teen back when she served the Emperor.
However Zahn purposefully created Mara Jade because of the lack of women with trained force powers in the movies. His choices in the Clone wars... was based upon what Lucas told him his ideas for the Prequels at the time. Zahn stated Lucas simply changed his mind since then and it was his prerogative to do so. Hence, the discrepancies of the Clone Wars described between the thrawn trilogy and the Clone Wars TV show plus the prequels. Legends, the Expanded Universe, retconned things in some minor stories and comics to state other manufacturers besides Kamino built clones for the Republic too. Thus implying the other methods were less stable but used nonetheless, mostly by local systems and not the Republic. Thrawn's clones where from those manufacturers tech. Hey, Lucas paid people to get canon to line up. It's why the Non-canon Marvel comics character Lumiya, aka Shira Elan Colla Brie, was recanonized (thus giving Legends two redhead Emperor's Hands). If they could fix something or bring something back into canon they did. However she was non-canon until the books brought her back.
Zahn's interpretation of dancer for Mara is the same as yours. She has an athletic body. She's basically a petite but physically strong woman with orange hair (Red-gold... get it. Yeah, spacey words like Jacen = Jason) and green eyes. Its basically comic book marketing syndrome that causes the looks to be way off from the books actual words. It doesn't matter how unsexy an outfit you designed for your heroine, an artist will eventually super oversex it (or make a guy so buff it looks like he could take on Superman). Hence Mara becoming a very tall dark red head with giant breasts and bare arms. The best way to make peace with this is treating characters like comics fans do when a favorite gets written very poorly, just remember they're basically campfire stories and occasionally you'll get an author who will tell a bad one.
...Spoilers below...
You're both right and wrong about writers not having a plan for Mara after Zahn. Mara was Zahn's character and he didnt want others to touch her. So he wrote her out to go off to the Smugglers Alliance, but Luke kept getting bad female relationships after that where the girls died or left him... and the fans loved Mara. So she kept making minor appearances. By 1997 Star Wars Kevin J Anderson knew Luke was gonna marry Mara Jade, though that didnt happen in the books until 1999. Star Wars Insider confirmed that via Pablo Hildgo. Basically he stated Zahn got permission to hook up Luke and Mara (to stop the insanity of Luke's love life and line up with Lucas's drafts, at the time, of Luke having kids). Now Kevin was releasing the Young Jedi Knights young reader books at the time, set 2 years after Luke would marry Mara. However to maintain the suprise of the marriage, Kevin never included Mara in his books (which likely suited him just fine as he broke them up in Jedi Academy trilogy and hooked Mara up with Lando). So basically Luke would appear having implied coming from doing something else Jedi related and help Jacen and Jaina Solo then disappear, but open enough that maybe he was with Mara then). So yes, no one knew what to do with her, at least until Timothy Zahn came back. I'd say Michael Stackpole did the next best job with her character after Zahn because he at least kept her fairly complex and not just an bland kickbutt warrior woman. Dont get me wrong, others occasionally got her good at times but they often had problems with her interpretation too.
Anyways the Bantam era was basically way too many cooks in the kitchen, all with radically different plans but all trying to do nothing too impactful besides the Solo kids. Hence Luke having every girl die on him or leave him. Lucasbooks was basically approving way too many books without much editorial oversight. It lead to lots of characters that stayed around for decades but there was absolutely no plan for any main running plot.
It was the Del Rey era where the books get very much more outlined in advance. However the issue here was random Lucas vetoes or singular authors that would try to force the plot to go their way against all other authors wishes (these two things combined are what lead to Mara Jade's death in the books). Anyways Zahn knew how hard working in groups like this was so opted out and to write his own trilogies. Zahn was writing a trilogy set after Legacy of the Force series about Luke and Mara, when they killed off Mara due to Lucas vetoing. We dont know the exact details but the between the line statements best educated guess basically goes he vetoed Tenel Ka's death for being too close to Padme dying (as Jacen basically was already copying Anakin's downfall, so his wife dying too was a bridge too far) and killing off his young daughter didnt set well with Lucas. Karen Traviss, who hated anything other than Mandalorians and especially Jedi, wanted to kill a jedi. She suggested Mara die. Every other author objected knowing her popularity, but Lucas asked if she could pull it off. She smugly said yes. Lucas adjourned the meeting. Anyways Timothy Zahn who wasnt there wasnt told. He got very upset as he basically wasted a lot of time writing the story he set up at the end of the Thrawn duology (Luke, Mara, and family hunt for Thrawn's other potential clones and the threat he was implying was in the unknown regions, which wasnt the Vong). He was still contracted for books though, and instead wrote Mara Jade Prequels.
The catch with the Del Rey era was kinda the opposite. They had good plans, that occasionally got wrenches thrown in them. However they basically didnt add more than a few new major characters beyond a few per series and just recycled lots of Bantam era characters where there was more originality (minus maybe the New Jedi Order). Basically Del Rey had risk aversion besides a few circumstances, they still had too many cooks with divering opinions but at least they more often than not worked together now.
Bantam and Del Rey got really messed up by Dark Horse comics too. They'd thrown wrenches at them. Dark Empire set up Luke falling to darkness, which meant Bantam era writers had to incorporate it. Del Rey got thrown off by Darth Krayt and the Legacy comics. Now Jaina Solo basically had to marry Jagged Fel, Luke had to die, the order had to be wiped out again, Cad Skywalker had to be born (and now that Mara died it basically meant Ben Skywalker had to have a kid, unless they wanted 60 year old Luke fathering another kid) and nothing could happen with Allana Solo as she seemingly had no offspring that survived (though Legacy series 2 seemed to retcon that one, but Disney canceled the EU then so it never got confirmed).
I did not know about Zahn preparing another trilogy post Legacy, that's rather disappointing that it was cancelled (though I am happy we were spared more Thrawn clones, the Thrawn obsession got tiring by Survivor's Quest). The Legacy comics were fun while released, but they ensured the post-NJO era was absolutely dour. And by FOTJ we got Sith overload. Kind of sad at the end. But I absolutely agree with your perspective on the Del Rey era, it was an era with interesting ideas that just kept getting trampled by author disagreements or LF veto. We never really got to go down any long character diversions because every author had their pet character and LF didn't seem to actually care who got explored, so Jaina ended up underdeveloped, Jacen had completely frazzled motivations, Tenel Ka was forgotten three quarters of the time, Luke and Ben were useless till FOTJ and Vestara was a really interesting character when Golden wrote her and a psycho when anyone else touched her story.
@@12345deviant Yeah, Zahn had been pushing for it since at least 2005. Which was before Legacy of the Force even got released and while Dark Nest was still being released. He mentioned all the time at signings. Fans were really hyped about it. Anyways he asked the publisher a direct question only a few months before the release of Sacrifice and that's when they admitted to him Mara Jade was set to die. They kept it hidden from him for years apparently, all while he was planning quite publicly his next adventure that he had set up since the Hand of Thrawn duology in 1998.
Apparently he was suspecting something they were hiding due to asking a direct question but it wasnt Mara Jade getting killed if I read betweenthe lines correctly based on his comments after Sacrifice was released. Zahn got really upset, its basically the only time he spoke up against the powers that be. Stating if they wanted her dead, he should have been given the right to kill her, he would have done it (and implied done it far better).
boards.theforce.net/threads/timothy-zahn-would-love-to-write-a-book-about-ben-skywalker-in-the-legacy-era-thread.21102529/
I'm personally not a fan of a Thrawn clone storyline either, all things being equal, unless it was set say right after The Thrawn trilogy and Captain Pellaeon had him created believing he was the original as that would have logically made sense for Captain Pellaeon to have done and logically might have had access to at least some cloning tanks as Thrawn was planning on cloning C'Baoth at a secure location. Which imho would have been a far more interesting storyline than a Clone set to return a decade later to save the galaxy from the dangers of the unknown regions.
That said, all things aren't equal and I think I would have rather swallowed another Thrawn clone and the dangers in the Unknown Regions than how much LotF ruined most of the characters. Honestly Luke Skywalker was only worthy of being a Jedi Master in the Troy Denning era when he was doing more Timothy Zahn stuff of exploring the Galaxy looking for answers in Fate of the Jedi... Timothy Zahn in contrast always wrote Luke Skywalker incredible and he was by far the best writer of Mara Jade. I personally suspect he would have written Jacen Solo, Jaina Solo, and Ben Skywalker incredible as well. His Leia was a bit more of a plot device when she was still a politician but I'd have loved for him to have a chance at writing her a Jedi Knight.
...and I totally agree with you about how Troy Denning and to lesser degree Aaron Allston treated Vestara Khai. Only Christina Golden got her right.
Wow I know it's been a long time since you wrote this comment. I just discovered this channel and wanted to watch this review. I didn't know all that stuff about Timothy's on wanting to write another trilogy for Luke and Mara. I would have loved to have read that. I've tried some of the NJO but I'm not sure it's for me. A little too bloodthirsty. And I find Timothy's on storytelling more charming. It makes me think that Mara's character is one that was dealt a dirty hand.
@@JenniferKokoski NJO is quite bloodthirsty, at least until book 13-19 when it gets very hopeful again... often Legends fans will say it's Dark but with hope never fading.
The books after that (Dark Nest trilogy, Legacy of the force, Fate of the Jedi, and Crucible), know as Denningverse, are way darker with no hope at all. The male characters are basically Dark Mary Sues, and female characters just exist to have sex with male characters then conveniently die so the male characters can have feels about their deaths. It's this storyline where they killed off Mara Jade without telling Timothy Zahn, knowing full well he was writing a book series set after it where Mara Jade was still alive. Worse Mara's death actually undermines the prophecy of who would die, it was supposed to be the killers greatest love, but instead it was warped into the mother of his apprentice who already hated him and who also was planning on killing him to protect his greatest love. Yeah, it is as stupid as it sounds, and they spent multiple pages trying to bullshit it into making some sense. So a twenty year long planned out storyline was scrapped overnight because two authors went behind another two authors backs and sabotaged their ongoing story, so they could instead control where the story went afterwards... and it lead to a space tentacle eldrich monster that wanted to make Luke Skywalker her husband and steal his son too. She also took over the body of one of his exs and also appeared in Luke's dreams as mara and pretended she was her ghost giving him ghost sex so he wouldn't be lonely.
This is why so many EU fans say Legends ends with either Survivors Quest by Timothy Zahn or New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force by James Luceno. As Denningverse is basically just bad fanfic.
And yes, Mara was delt a very dirty hand (they even revealed later she went to hell, where she just relived her death over and over)... but so too was nearly every other established character. Jacen, and Luke probably being the other two that you know about done nearly as bad as Mara.
Zahn really does capture the charm of Star Wars, other authors like Denning and Traviss just write morbidly dark ad nauseam for the sake of shock value and to gaslight previous stories.
@@jonathanryan9946 I've read survivor's quest and Vector prime but that is as far as I've gotten other than reading summaries of the books that follow. Oh I did start star by star just so I could see how poor Anakin Solo dies. Thank you for all the information on the Denningverse. The reason why I stayed away from reading the EU books for so long is because I thought they would be that very weird depressing sci-fi horror stuff that came out over the last 20 years. It just does not interest me. I know a lot of fans enjoy that sort of thing. And they look for a very grim sort of Star Wars in movies and TV. But I'm still that impressionable 7-year-old girl inside whenever I watch Star Wars. It's a fairy tale to me with heroes and villains knowing that the heroes will always triumph in the end.
I just recently read this book, and enjoyed it a lot. (read+ audiobook version) at the same time. Mostly because, I didn't know how to pronounce half the planets/character names... Joruus C'Baoth is e.g. pronounced JOrus SA-ba-yoth by the narrator... good review btw.
I'm glad you enjoyed HttE--Marc Thompson's narration is wonderful! (I listened to the audiobook for the first time a few months ago, and the pronunciation of C'Baoth's name is fascinating/boggling to me; I would have never figured that out phonetically.)
Han and Leia references "the committee" makes sense to me because that is when they fell in love. On top of that, it would be even more poignant because it was during a time of galactic import. Imagine if a couple met during WWII (let's say as part of the French Resistance). Not only would the memory of their romance be sharp with them, but also, the fact that they were in a life-or-death situation during that time would lend it spice. And even the fact that they never explained it to Luke I can buy, since it would be THEIR moment, THEIR private joke. I can see a couple especially cherishing that they share something no one else has (maybe I'm a romantic)
Oh, as much as I like Zahn's clone war explanation, I do have to say that Leia's "aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper?" from Ep IV makes a lot more sense to me since the prequels came out. I ALWAYS thought that was a stupid thing to say to a soldier that was just part of a group that tortured you, (besides the false bravado), but now it seems a legit question as all the clones would be the same size (and I will assume that maybe the stormtroopers were still batches of clones-that would explain why they seemed cool with Vader leading them attacking Hoth base unlike the Imperial navel officers that always seemed VERY nervous with Vader (not just the head guys, but even the crewmen in the alcoves looked askance at him)
Really like your reviews, apart from your insight on the books, you add some random facts of the books that I'd otherwise not know.
interesting that you bring up the clone wars in this, originally cause Lucas would approve or disapprove of topics in novels back then to control canon. He didn't know what to do about the clone wars back then so in most novels the clone wars were only talked about in past-tense. or at least extremely vague descriptions. originally the clone wars were about the Jedi Vs. the clones, with no description as to where they came from.. with Lucas created episode one and the drafts for the prequels then it became more obvious as to what he was gonna do with the clone wars. but the whole idea was the same the emperor was just a simple politician who ended up destroying the republic, etc. etc., but i always will love the EU for their vision of the clone wars cause it seemed so gruesome when talked about.
I couldn't wait to read this trilogy. I read "The Truce at Bakura" and I think a little of "Courtship of Princess Leia". But they gave me the happy ending I was searching for. For the characters Luke, Leia, and Han. I watched the Disney sequel trilogy interest, and thought they sucked, and gave away all my Star Wars stuff. I didn't like how the Luke, Leia, and Han stories were pretty much a "Bad ending" in video games. Now I only like "Empire Strikes" back, "Return of the Jedi", and The Thrawn Trilogy, Motion Comic version by "nathans6486", and the new CGI version, by DarthAngelus. I didn't like the stilted dialogue, of "A New Hope", "You there, come here." "I don't remember ever owning a droid". For 'Empire', and 'Return' they dumped the religion aspects of the Force and it made for a better story. I didn't like the prequels. I always hated 'good guy goes bad' stories. Thanks for your review.
The Sith *were* a species in the EU
Funny how you mention Shira Bree. She'll be touched on in a much later time in this timeline. I never really thought about the lack of females, but it really goes along with the original trilogy (how many females do you see besides Leia? I can only remember a girl working in the command centre on Hoth, and Mon Mothma) But you have to understand that sci-fi was long thought of as a boy's genre. And I guess that may be offensive today, but I don't think it was ever meant to be
I know Shira Brie showed up in a later series (maybe Legacy of the Force?), but my memories of that one are a little hazy.
I don't think the lack of women was intentional or malicious, just that most sci-fi authors didn't even think about how many of their background or secondary characters were men. The original trilogy was definitely a male-centric environment!
The feline grace of Mara described by Zahn might feature some sex appeal but I always thought that, not only it featured high competence in how to move in a room, be discreet, stealthy and calculating, it showed also some refinement in execution, she loves a challenge for sure but above all she loves a work well executed she thrives in excellence. Talon Karrde being a calculating man of refinement as well notices that instantly, he even never seemed to initiate innuendo towards her ever. (he might be asexual or gay for what we know or too much of a red pilled calculator to actually care about sexual encounters, evenless with his subordinates since he always thrives for excellence as well and probably doesn't want anything to be turned against him.
Aside from the fact that Mara was raised and trained by Palpatine himeself, she was abducted and we never know anything about her original family... sh might as well be the daughter of a farmer than a daughter of an Imparial aristocrat for what we know.
Oh and it is definitely hinted especially in Dark Force Rising and Last Command that she could act as Giesha as cover for her job for the Emperor so she might very well knows how to use her body to distract adversaries... She's still seen by other men as a very beautiful woman.
Oh about the Clone Wars, Obi-Wan mentioned being part of it with Anakin so it can't have taken place 40 years before ANH. And Anakin's downfall although quite fast in RotS is a result of a 14 years grooming by Palpatine himself setting Ani to become Darth Vader.
About references, the Thrawn trilogy being of the first EU materials ever, he didn't have anything else to reference unless inventing events that would constraint other writers to refer to as well...
When I read the book for the first time, I couldn't get my eyes away from it.
I've always thought that a lot of the art of Mara (especially the super "cheesecake" ones) fail to portray how chameleon-like her appearance could be, thanks to her Hand training. I think she'd be like the Mata Hari--it'd be hard to link her Court appearances with her disguises on missions or even her usual self, because she's good at adapting to situations. (Her Court persona was probably also useful for downplaying her competence--although she's so proud of her role and her authority when she relates it to Luke, I can see her also getting internally frustrated when others underestimated her.)
How many women are in the military today or throughout history? Something to keep in mind.
Even if they were the only female characters there the important thing to keep in mind is that they were more than two dimensional mouth pieces for someone's agenda. They were just well written characters that happened to be women. Which in my view is the absolute best way to write ANY character. Just make them interesting, worry about their gender "IF" and only if that aspect of their personality is relevant to the story line. Romance isn't necessary just because you put two people together in an intense situation. And we for sure don't need sxual tension just because a double X and Y chromo are in the same room.
While I see your point as a woman reading a series that doesn't have a lot of women in it, I don't think you should second guess why you like Mara Leia and Mothma, or Calista Qui Zux or any other female characters as they were added to the story lines. I didn't like Lando just because he was the only non white that became a main character in the movies and books. I liked him because he was more than the betraying self centered guy, and more than the black guy. He was a person with depth that didn't do his friend dirty out of cowardice or avarice. Rather, because he had a community that he honestly thought he was protecting. But as soon as he saw he was not going to be able to help anyone he turned against the empire and joined the, as Mark Hamil called them, the brotherhood of the brave.
I have to disagree, the main baddie kills his men to show off how "eeeevil" he is was just a star wars thing. If we don't get annoyed by Vader doing it three times in Empire we can't hold it against Zahn for putting Thrawn in that position in his first book. He was learning like all new writers in a series.
As for the inside joke with Han and Leia about the committee thing; meh you and i both know people who, to the point of distraction, will repeat their inside jokes with their family and friends. that's just a people thing that happens. No different than every movie and nearly every book having someone repeat the i have a bad feeling about this line. Or saying may the force be with you for that matter.
So glad to hear a SW fan who is put off by the dance dance light saber fights and prefer the duels that are character-centrist rather than superpower directed.
If there's one thing i learned reading this book, You don't mess with Thrawn.
Good story but as I'm older I do notice all the times someone cocks an eyebrow or there Lips twitch in the book
There's a lot of things said wryly and dryly as well!
Loved it and loved your review... Now reading the comic too 🤓
Thanks--and enjoy the comic! :) I haven't read the comic in years, but I remember the artwork (I think the Noghri reminded me of Hellboy, stylistically at least).
@@MegReviews I can certainly see that connection. Yes they are much more fearsome than how Rukh was visualised in Rebels. I really wanted to see those 'needle-sharp teeth' which Zahn often describes in the book...
Meg, I love your reviews. Here is a memory that I have of reading this trilogy (about 20 years ago) - I recall that Zhan explains that Palpatine was at the core, a racist (hence not anyone of color in the officer core), a male chauvinist (hence, not any women - Mara Jade the exception), and a Xenophobe (hence, only humans serving and Thrawn being placed at the fringe of the Galaxy). This reflects the look of the first movie Trilogy. In more recent years, we see more female characters in both the New Republic and the Empire. It did not surprise me that Thrawn's background would be rewritten. By the way, Thrawn and Mara Jade became instant hits with me as a fan. I always want more about them. Thanks again for this great review.
You’re hair looks so cool
I love how you talk, and pronounce things, your facial expressions. All very engaging, and rather wonderful.
Awesome channel!!!
Thank you!
I wasn't really into Thrawn, the Noghri, Mara Jade, reconstituting OT vehicles, stormtroopers, and that damn clone....
I'm coming to realize that Zahn is an acquired taste--you either connect with his books & characters and his writing style, or you don't. (Fortunately there's so many different SW authors to chose from!)
@@MegReviews True. I think TZ is an author that distantly reminds me, in a favorable sense, of prolific science fiction author Alan Dean Foster and I absolutely love his novelization of 1977 Star Wars.
What repels me from TZ and even ADF and every other wannabe writer are the recycling of OT material.
5:55 I think your premise is based on a false assumption. There is no gender parity in the Empire. We see not a single lady in Imperial Uniform in the Original Trilogy; or non-human for that matter. Zahn observed that, and what Palleon is commenting on is that now, 5 years after the Battle of Endor, that there are now young women, and Thrawn is an exception for the non-human side.
This is how it was in the EU for a long time. There were exceptions and the coined phrase is those Imperials were from the "Non-huMan Track". Later Star Wars branched out a bit from this to add a little diversity, such as we see in the more "recent" Zahn novels as you mentioned.
When Heir came out, my friends and I were so excited! We were already playing West End Games' Star Wars The RolePlaying Game, the same one that Zahn used to flesh out details and background info for his trilogy
I felt there wasn't very many droids mentioned in this trilogy for Star Wars
Hmm, I don't remember many droids either besides R2-D2 and C-3PO. We get the agricultural droids on Honoghr and some working droids, but not any with designations and personalities.
I wholeheartedly agree with your comments about the characters quipping A New Hope references throughout the book, for me it really makes it feel forced! Surely other things have happened since then?
This was a very sardonic review!
Fabulous review 🙂
Let’s just ignore all the female characters are either in charge of an entire government and are respected leaders and the other was respected and capable enough to be PALPATINE’S right hand. But whatever not enough I guess.
Representation of any kind is not about how great or powerfull the characters are, but about giving a variety of characters. If you have a group of people, who make up about 50% of humanity then about 50% of the human characters should be female. That doesn't mean that an author should count how many of their characters are wich gender, but 5 out of 28 named characters is no where near 50%.
I was planning on reading the New Canon Tharwen novel but then I watch TLJ and lost all Interest in the New Canon.
I think the new Thrawn novels are still worth reading! They're set in the period between the prequel and original trilogies, and the first book covers his rise within the Empire.
Tlj was awesome
if you havent seen it yet, thrawns portrayal in star wars rebels is excellent
Yes, I loved Thrawn in Rebels! I prefer when he's the villain (as opposed to Zahn's later attempts to justify his actions), and Thrawn in seasons 3 and 4 was wonderfully ruthless--with the Ahsoka show coming out next year (maybe??), I'm due for a rewatch.
@@MegReviews same here, im wondering who they will get to play thrawn in a live action series. Honestly he was the best villain in Rebels and thats saying a lot
Is this a review of the book or the female characters of Star Wars? XD
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Evil clone of Owi-wan would have been SO much better!