Nice video Tony. A couple of comments. The skating force is not a gyroscopic, centrifugal, or centripetal force. Those types of force pull outward, not inwards. It is a vector force caused by the offset angle, and the friction between the stylus and the groove. Stylus rake angle and vertical tracking angle are not interchangeable terms and refer to different measurements, although in practice the two settings will move together with each other, so people will use one term or the other to refer to the same adjustment.
Have had a couple different turntables in my life, a couple Duals and now a Techics tangential tracking, it avoids tracking errors! Thanks much for all these videos, a million dollar education for anyone getting into or starting out in electronics or high fidelity!
Another great video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. You are so right about modern recordings put out on vinyl. I love the ritual of playing records and the sleeve is so much easier to read on a record than a CD or on your phone (especially with aging eyes!). I've noticed that old worn records sound so much clearer and greater soundstage than brand new modern recordings put out on vinyl. The start and finish of these recordings definitely have increased distortion, not heard on older pre digital recordings on vinyl. Such a shame the record companies don't make a vinyl mix specially for putting on the vinyl with as much care as previously.
I love my vinyl. I agree with your opinions, I have argued the same for years. I think vinyl sounds better because it is imperfect. It is warmer and more natural. But I don't get all hung up on the audiophile stuff...I even like listening to my old 8 tracks. Yeah, they sound like 8 tracks, that is why I enjoy it.
Excellent post. Cartridge set-up is tricky! Of course, you’re aware of Michael Fremer’s many posts on this topic. He also produced a DVD that goes into tremendous detail. That said, your approach is an excellent contribution. I really, really like your videos. They are a regular part of my viewing.
Perfected Imperfection: what a great way to describe vinyl recordings at the peak of that technology! I agree with you about all-digital recordings being pressed on vinyl; it just doesn't make any sense. As far as altering the original recordings using digital track-by-track remixing (or making separate tracks for multiple instruments that were originally recorded to a single track and then remixing), I would have to say that I would have agreed with you until I heard the Steve Wilson remixes of some of Gentle Giant's albums. The clarity of the individual instruments in the remix is just amazing. Even the musicians themselves have lauded the new versions, stating that the remixes are how they would have wanted them mixed originally if there hadn't been limitations in the studio or its personnel. Great video Tony! Thank you for all you do for all of us.
Agreed. Steve Wilson's Jethro Tull remixes are far better than the originals too. It all depends on the producer and his ears during the mix. Steve Wilson has a good ear and doesn't stray or over compensate during his mix of the original material.
Tony, I liked the Video and the content, I repair old Jukeboxes and other electronic stuff from the 50s, 60s, and 70s. This gave me a lot of insight for the adjustments and calibrations on some of the stuff I work on. But the main thing I took from this some insights for a project I'm working on. I'm building a record cutting lathe. For general reproduction and for the ability to record today's music on media that isn't available. You got me thinking about the mixing and the means to convert Digital back to Analog without losses and distortion. Thanks for the content the great video.
Hello Tony,... first of all, thank you very much for your current video on the subject of turntables, setting options & co.... I'm downright surprised there how many parameters there are for this unit... one can learn from you... thank you... .Micha 🥰
I fixed forward backward slop in a technics 1210 tone arm last night, it was the cylinder that held the horizontal bearings in the gimbal. not the actual bearings that needed adjusting. there was just enough space to move the arm slightly backwards out of the bearing / gimbal assembly and then turn it over to remove the two black cross-head screws, after this i was able to remove this cylinder and shim it front and back. i used two thin strips of sellotape and warmed them with a lighter flame so they would stick well. the barrel or cylinder holding the bearings slid back in and there was no more front to back slop then adjust the bearings and lock them till there is no play but not tight to the bearings at all.
Obsession with hi fi is a mind disease. As a practising musician I listen to music and to what the musicians are doing, not to fractional differences in distortion figures. Over the decades I've had high end gear and pre used charity shop gear. Because I actually listen to the musical information and not the reproduction all have served me well. This video made me remember why we all embraced the CD so totally.
This is a very interesting comment. One of my kids is a music performance major in college. Several of my friends are professional session musicians and many others are "hobbyist" musicians. Another very good friend owns and operates a music store and is the third generation in his family to do so. He repairs and services instruments for many amateur and professional musicians. It always amazes me how detail oriented most musicians are, when it comes to their instrument or their playing technique. Guitar players are always concerned with the guitar/strings/amps/capacitors in the amps.....you name it, all in the name of expressing their music in their own special way. Violinists spend enormous sums of money on an old, scratched up violin, simply because of the way it sounds. Wind instrument players are constantly perfecting their embouchure, trying different reeds or mouthpieces or even different instruments. Your comment could also be applied to these folks as well. I don't see it that way, however. While an expensive instrument can't make a bad musician play well, in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, it can sound beautiful. I have great respect for all the effort a musician puts into the music they create. While no sound system can ever perfectly reproduce the live performance, it can, however, bring the same enjoyment when properly implemented. I could tune in my pocket transistor radio to NPR and listen to a recording of my favorite symphony (and I have), but I prefer to listen to it on a proper sound system. That way, I can best enjoy the artistic work that they and their recording crew have created. ;) As a musician, I would think that you would be flattered that someone would go to these lengths to hear your music as you intended. If that is a mind disease, then I guess there are a lot of musicians and listeners that are equally infected..... Thanks for the comment!
Just make sure that you place the most important music at the tangent points on your LPs. Heh. Note that most people under the age of 20 have never heard any recorded music that wasn't being decompressed from MPG or the like.
Yes, as Andrew Castellane mentioned above there are the horizontal/linear tracking record players that seem to solve some problems, but perhaps introduce others. Would be great to see what Tony thinks of them.
How weird that this should pop up in my feed today as I've been looking at getting a new turntable. Been considering the PLX500...the 1000 is a bit out of my reach. I mean, yeah, I could buy it, but I don't want to have to justify spending that much on a turntable when whatever I say will probably have me in the doghouse for a good while, lol. This info will certainly be useful as up till now I've only ever had BSR turntables, albeit with metal platter & plinth and mine does have a moving magnet cartridge, a Pickering V-15 and I have narrow and wide NOS Styli for it for both modern and shellac (78rpm) records. I know the 500 will also play 78's which was one of the reasons I'm considering it over the Fluance RT85. The other reason is that it is direct drive as I've never been a fan of turntables that use a rubber band for their drive.
This is not directly related to the specific topic. But close enough. Today, while sampling a new Audio-Technica USB turntable, another possible reason why people prefer vinyl occurred to me. Could this be a “dancing bear” thing? You know, the amazing thing about a dancing bear is not how well it dances, but that it dances at all! I put an old record from my dearly departed father in law, which clearly had been played very little and handled well, and was absolutely astounded at the beautiful sound, with no discernable scratches or surface noise. Could it be that people put the stylus down on a disc of grooved plastic and thereafter find it hard to believe that the entire process works well enough to sound that good? From a metal rod moving back and forth under control of some gouges? It’s just understandable enough to make sense, and just astounding enough to be incredible. People generally don’t understand CD’s or other digital media enough to have a sense of why it should be good, better, or best. Of course, I had to record the record digitally, and the playback, recorded to CD specs, sounded just the same. Just a thought, while walking the dog.
In my case, when I started to replace my vinyl records for CDs, I noted that some engineers messed with the original recorded mix and added their personal taste. I dislike this practice. One example is the original pressing of ABBAs "Fernando". The vinyl version sounds more present and dynamic than the CD. Why? Because it was a different Sound Engineer who mixed the original recording. Sometimes a CD will tell you that they used the original mix master Tape, other recordings don't.
Now, don't misquote Tony. He said "digital when done right". That is important. Also he said "far, far, far" :) He does make a good point about listening to music originally mastered for vinyl on vinyl.
Hi Tony been following you for over a year now and learnt a great deal from you videos Looking for some advice I’ve been rebuilding a music fidelity E100 I purchased not working it’s now been fully recapped and new quality outputs works well now However at random periods I’m getting a single pop from the left channel any advice on where to look would be helpful ? Can be 5, 10 ,20 mins between pops ? Small transistor? Capacitor ? Thanks in advance Geoff
I agree that digital recordings are absolutely superior to analog. Provided that every step of the delivery chain is also digital. I also agree that vinyl pressings of digitally recorded material are pointless. If, by some miracle, digital recording had come first, there would probably never have been any analog attempt made. And, those who are acolytes of the analog mystique today, would likely scoff at the poor-cousin relationship that any attempt at analog recording would display, with digital having been first. That said, I do feel that analog-processed audio has its place. I have made digital recordings of the much of the vinyl that I have, simply because of the convenience factor when listening. The digital copies of my vinyl material sound, to my poor ears, exactly the same as the vinyl - including all of the flaws, which is fine. And, I don’t have to mess around with a turntable, when I wish to listen to them. In fact, the only time I ever use the turntable now, is when I’m transferring vinyl to digital. The transfer process is slow, and laborious, but once completed, I can do just about anything I wish with the music.
Digital can be much more superior, or it can be not even close. You ask why, well its all about sampling rate. Digital's GOD is the sampling rate. I challenge you to record a digital recording at 10k samples per second and then compare that to analog. And as far as CD's go, they are not superior to analog as they are sampled at a very slow 42,000 samples per second. When you attempt to reproduce sounds we call "Presence" 12,000 and up, you end up with only 3 or 4 samples per cycle. You can not properly reproduce a true signal from 3 samples. DVD solved this by moving to 98,000 samples per second. This is why the sound on your movies is far superior to the CD. So is Digital better? Sure, if your very rich and can afford a DAT. Otherwise, Analog has much better frequency response. There is a reason why SiriusXM turn Vinyl in most their studios. There is also the human factor for analog that you have heard from every Guitar player you know... Its warmer. We can't measure "warmer" but it is real.
When did recording studios switch from analog tapes to digital? To my ears most recordings made in the mid 80's to now have a sibalance to them that really bothers my ears.
I just wanna hear things the way they sounded when I was a kid in the 70's..I can put a Blondie cd on a great stereo but it doesn't sound like my old heart of glass 45, I just don't get that feeling from the cd. P.S. imo a good 8track sounds better than vinyl or cd : )
No a digital recording transferred to vinyl done correctly is better, You lose the digital glare what you get with digital recorder. some people are more sensitive to this like me than others I believe, i can hear the artefacts in digital recordings.
You are sort of incorrect. The work done for media is done when the recording is MASTERED. Mastering is a process. As far as a mix down, it is done for the sound, nothing to do with the media. Today we MASTER for the media, ie. CD, Record,Cassette. Mastering is where they Compress, Expand, and other audio ticks, and yes prepare for the particular Media(s). Not many recording studio's Master. Mastering is done by a separate company. A Master Disk has nothing to do with MASTERING. It was a term given to the disk used to make records from.
Nice video Tony. A couple of comments.
The skating force is not a gyroscopic, centrifugal, or centripetal force. Those types of force pull outward, not inwards. It is a vector force caused by the offset angle, and the friction between the stylus and the groove.
Stylus rake angle and vertical tracking angle are not interchangeable terms and refer to different measurements, although in practice the two settings will move together with each other, so people will use one term or the other to refer to the same adjustment.
Have had a couple different turntables in my life, a couple Duals and now a Techics tangential tracking, it avoids tracking errors! Thanks much for all these videos, a million dollar education for anyone getting into or starting out in electronics or high fidelity!
Another great video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
You are so right about modern recordings put out on vinyl.
I love the ritual of playing records and the sleeve is so much easier to read on a record than a CD or on your phone (especially with aging eyes!).
I've noticed that old worn records sound so much clearer and greater soundstage than brand new modern recordings put out on vinyl.
The start and finish of these recordings definitely have increased distortion, not heard on older pre digital recordings on vinyl.
Such a shame the record companies don't make a vinyl mix specially for putting on the vinyl with as much care as previously.
I love my vinyl. I agree with your opinions, I have argued the same for years. I think vinyl sounds better because it is imperfect. It is warmer and more natural. But I don't get all hung up on the audiophile stuff...I even like listening to my old 8 tracks. Yeah, they sound like 8 tracks, that is why I enjoy it.
Excellent post. Cartridge set-up is tricky! Of course, you’re aware of Michael Fremer’s many posts on this topic. He also produced a DVD that goes into tremendous detail. That said, your approach is an excellent contribution.
I really, really like your videos. They are a regular part of my viewing.
Thanks again for the vast info you always give us.Peace to you all!
Perfected Imperfection: what a great way to describe vinyl recordings at the peak of that technology! I agree with you about all-digital recordings being pressed on vinyl; it just doesn't make any sense. As far as altering the original recordings using digital track-by-track remixing (or making separate tracks for multiple instruments that were originally recorded to a single track and then remixing), I would have to say that I would have agreed with you until I heard the Steve Wilson remixes of some of Gentle Giant's albums. The clarity of the individual instruments in the remix is just amazing. Even the musicians themselves have lauded the new versions, stating that the remixes are how they would have wanted them mixed originally if there hadn't been limitations in the studio or its personnel. Great video Tony! Thank you for all you do for all of us.
Agreed. Steve Wilson's Jethro Tull remixes are far better than the originals too. It all depends on the producer and his ears during the mix. Steve Wilson has a good ear and doesn't stray or over compensate during his mix of the original material.
Tony, I liked the Video and the content, I repair old Jukeboxes and other electronic stuff from the 50s, 60s, and 70s. This gave me a lot of insight for the adjustments and calibrations on some of the stuff I work on. But the main thing I took from this some insights for a project I'm working on. I'm building a record cutting lathe. For general reproduction and for the ability to record today's music on media that isn't available. You got me thinking about the mixing and the means to convert Digital back to Analog without losses and distortion. Thanks for the content the great video.
Long long ago the music clubs also offered reel-to-reel recordings. That was deep high-end way back when. :-)
Hello Tony,... first of all, thank you very much for your current video on the subject of turntables, setting options & co.... I'm downright surprised there how many parameters there are for this unit... one can learn from you... thank you... .Micha 🥰
Thanks Tony. I’m a “Digi” guy all the way (Grew up with vinyl and tape (Analog)) thanks for the info though I still enjoy it.
Excelente Tony, con el video del Technics y el Rotel que hiciste queda todo muy bien explicado. Y como tu dices uno disfruta haciendo estos ajustes.
I fixed forward backward slop in a technics 1210 tone arm last night, it was the cylinder that held the horizontal bearings in the gimbal. not the actual bearings that needed adjusting. there was just enough space to move the arm slightly backwards out of the bearing / gimbal assembly and then turn it over to remove the two black cross-head screws, after this i was able to remove this cylinder and shim it front and back. i used two thin strips of sellotape and warmed them with a lighter flame so they would stick well. the barrel or cylinder holding the bearings slid back in and there was no more front to back slop then adjust the bearings and lock them till there is no play but not tight to the bearings at all.
Obsession with hi fi is a mind disease. As a practising musician I listen to music and to what the musicians are doing, not to fractional differences in distortion figures. Over the decades I've had high end gear and pre used charity shop gear. Because I actually listen to the musical information and not the reproduction all have served me well. This video made me remember why we all embraced the CD so totally.
This is a very interesting comment. One of my kids is a music performance major in college. Several of my friends are professional session musicians and many others are "hobbyist" musicians. Another very good friend owns and operates a music store and is the third generation in his family to do so. He repairs and services instruments for many amateur and professional musicians. It always amazes me how detail oriented most musicians are, when it comes to their instrument or their playing technique. Guitar players are always concerned with the guitar/strings/amps/capacitors in the amps.....you name it, all in the name of expressing their music in their own special way. Violinists spend enormous sums of money on an old, scratched up violin, simply because of the way it sounds. Wind instrument players are constantly perfecting their embouchure, trying different reeds or mouthpieces or even different instruments. Your comment could also be applied to these folks as well. I don't see it that way, however. While an expensive instrument can't make a bad musician play well, in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, it can sound beautiful. I have great respect for all the effort a musician puts into the music they create. While no sound system can ever perfectly reproduce the live performance, it can, however, bring the same enjoyment when properly implemented. I could tune in my pocket transistor radio to NPR and listen to a recording of my favorite symphony (and I have), but I prefer to listen to it on a proper sound system. That way, I can best enjoy the artistic work that they and their recording crew have created. ;) As a musician, I would think that you would be flattered that someone would go to these lengths to hear your music as you intended. If that is a mind disease, then I guess there are a lot of musicians and listeners that are equally infected.....
Thanks for the comment!
Just make sure that you place the most important music at the tangent points on your LPs. Heh. Note that most people under the age of 20 have never heard any recorded music that wasn't being decompressed from MPG or the like.
Great learning video Tony. Thank you…
Very, very good video! Thank you!
Yes, as Andrew Castellane mentioned above there are the horizontal/linear tracking record players that seem to solve some problems, but perhaps introduce others. Would be great to see what Tony thinks of them.
Great video! I prefer that format with voiceover for this type of video. BTW I spied the Missing Persons LP.
How weird that this should pop up in my feed today as I've been looking at getting a new turntable. Been considering the PLX500...the 1000 is a bit out of my reach. I mean, yeah, I could buy it, but I don't want to have to justify spending that much on a turntable when whatever I say will probably have me in the doghouse for a good while, lol. This info will certainly be useful as up till now I've only ever had BSR turntables, albeit with metal platter & plinth and mine does have a moving magnet cartridge, a Pickering V-15 and I have narrow and wide NOS Styli for it for both modern and shellac (78rpm) records. I know the 500 will also play 78's which was one of the reasons I'm considering it over the Fluance RT85. The other reason is that it is direct drive as I've never been a fan of turntables that use a rubber band for their drive.
This is not directly related to the specific topic. But close enough.
Today, while sampling a new Audio-Technica USB turntable, another possible reason why people prefer vinyl occurred to me.
Could this be a “dancing bear” thing? You know, the amazing thing about a dancing bear is not how well it dances, but that it dances at all!
I put an old record from my dearly departed father in law, which clearly had been played very little and handled well, and was absolutely astounded at the beautiful sound, with no discernable scratches or surface noise.
Could it be that people put the stylus down on a disc of grooved plastic and thereafter find it hard to believe that the entire process works well enough to sound that good? From a metal rod moving back and forth under control of some gouges? It’s just understandable enough to make sense, and just astounding enough to be incredible.
People generally don’t understand CD’s or other digital media enough to have a sense of why it should be good, better, or best. Of course, I had to record the record digitally, and the playback, recorded to CD specs, sounded just the same.
Just a thought, while walking the dog.
In my case, when I started to replace my vinyl records for CDs, I noted that some engineers messed with the original recorded mix and added their personal taste. I dislike this practice. One example is the original pressing of ABBAs "Fernando". The vinyl version sounds more present and dynamic than the CD. Why? Because it was a different Sound Engineer who mixed the original recording. Sometimes a CD will tell you that they used the original mix master Tape, other recordings don't.
Tony, you're gonna get flamed for saying digital is far, far superior to a vinyl record, but you're right.
Now, don't misquote Tony. He said "digital when done right". That is important. Also he said "far, far, far" :) He does make a good point about listening to music originally mastered for vinyl on vinyl.
What about a vinyl digitised and played as a CD. I've heard them and liked what I heard. Sounded like Vinyl.
Hi Tony been following you for over a year now and learnt a great deal from you videos
Looking for some advice I’ve been rebuilding a music fidelity E100 I purchased not working it’s now been fully recapped and new quality outputs works well now
However at random periods I’m getting a single pop from the left channel any advice on where to look would be helpful ?
Can be 5, 10 ,20 mins between pops ?
Small transistor? Capacitor ?
Thanks in advance
Geoff
I agree that digital recordings are absolutely superior to analog. Provided that every step of the delivery chain is also digital. I also agree that vinyl pressings of digitally recorded material are pointless. If, by some miracle, digital recording had come first, there would probably never have been any analog attempt made. And, those who are acolytes of the analog mystique today, would likely scoff at the poor-cousin relationship that any attempt at analog recording would display, with digital having been first.
That said, I do feel that analog-processed audio has its place. I have made digital recordings of the much of the vinyl that I have, simply because of the convenience factor when listening. The digital copies of my vinyl material sound, to my poor ears, exactly the same as the vinyl - including all of the flaws, which is fine. And, I don’t have to mess around with a turntable, when I wish to listen to them. In fact, the only time I ever use the turntable now, is when I’m transferring vinyl to digital. The transfer process is slow, and laborious, but once completed, I can do just about anything I wish with the music.
Digital can be much more superior, or it can be not even close. You ask why, well its all about sampling rate. Digital's GOD is the sampling rate. I challenge you to record a digital recording at 10k samples per second and then compare that to analog. And as far as CD's go, they are not superior to analog as they are sampled at a very slow 42,000 samples per second. When you attempt to reproduce sounds we call "Presence" 12,000 and up, you end up with only 3 or 4 samples per cycle. You can not properly reproduce a true signal from 3 samples.
DVD solved this by moving to 98,000 samples per second. This is why the sound on your movies is far superior to the CD.
So is Digital better? Sure, if your very rich and can afford a DAT. Otherwise, Analog has much better frequency response. There is a reason why SiriusXM turn Vinyl in most their studios.
There is also the human factor for analog that you have heard from every Guitar player you know... Its warmer. We can't measure "warmer" but it is real.
they want $30 on amazon for that alignment mat...know of any better deals for it?
When did recording studios switch from analog tapes to digital? To my ears most recordings made in the mid 80's to now have a sibalance to them that really bothers my ears.
Where do I get that templet to put on platter
eBay/Amazon/etc.
I just wanna hear things the way they sounded when I was a kid in the 70's..I can put a Blondie cd on a great stereo but it doesn't sound like my old heart of glass 45, I just don't get that feeling from the cd. P.S. imo a good 8track sounds better than vinyl or cd : )
Centripetal Force?
Yes....if you ever did a physics course it is actually centripetal force and not centrifical force.
No a digital recording transferred to vinyl done correctly is better, You lose the digital glare what you get with digital recorder. some people are more sensitive to this like me than others I believe, i can hear the artefacts in digital recordings.
You are sort of incorrect. The work done for media is done when the recording is MASTERED. Mastering is a process. As far as a mix down, it is done for the sound, nothing to do with the media.
Today we MASTER for the media, ie. CD, Record,Cassette. Mastering is where they Compress, Expand, and other audio ticks, and yes prepare for the particular Media(s). Not many recording studio's Master. Mastering is done by a separate company.
A Master Disk has nothing to do with MASTERING. It was a term given to the disk used to make records from.
Vinyl is “superior” only because of the big juicy 12" sleeve that feels good in your hands (compared to CD or cassette)... Thatʼs it...
Plus free surface noise! And the vinyl media can last many decades, often outliving the original purchaser.