Unraveling the Controversy: Stanford Twin Study Explained
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
- Reviewer: "This video adds SO MUCH valuable context & clarifications, it should be Episode 5 in the Netflix docuseries."
PAPERS:
Cardiometabolic Effects of Omnivorous vs Vegan Diets in Identical Twins
A Randomized Clinical Trial (Stanford)
jamanetwork.com/journals/jama...
Unveiling the Epigenetic Impact of Vegan vs. Omnivorous Diets on Aging: Insights from the Twins Nutrition Study (TwiNS)
www.medrxiv.org/content/10.11...
Gut-microbiota-targeted diets modulate human immune status
www.cell.com/action/showPdf?p...
A word of caution against excessive protein intake
www.nature.com/articles/s4157...
Lack of an association or an inverse association between low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol and mortality in the elderly: a systematic review by Uffe Ravnskov & David Diamond
bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e...
Association of lipoprotein levels with mortality in subjects aged 50 + without previous diabetes or cardiovascular disease: A population-based register study
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23941...
BLOGS:
A study comparing the effects of vegan and omnivorous diets fails Science 101 by Peter Attia
British Heart Foundation: Flawed cholesterol study makes headlines
www.bhf.org.uk/informationsup...
Stanford’s Vegan Twin Study: Science or PR Stunt? by Nina Teicholz
unsettledscience.substack.com...
REPORTS:
Grazed and Confused, by Oxford University
www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/dow...
CARBON FOOTPRINT EVALUATION OF REGENERATIVE GRAZING AT WHITE OAK PASTURES by General Mills
blog.whiteoakpastures.com/hub...
Truth, Lies and Culture Wars. Social listening analysis of meat and dairy
persuasion narratives
changingmarkets.org/wp-conten...
VIDEOS:
Food Sustainability - American Heart Association 2022 Keynote Presentation by Christopher Gardner
• Food Sustainability - ...
Meet the People Getting Paid to Kill Our Planet | NYT Opinion
• Meet the People Gettin...
Why scientists believe meat has dire consequences for the planet
• Why scientists believe...
BOOKS:
The Triumph of Doubt: Dark Money and the Science of Deception by David Michaels
www.amazon.com/Triumph-Doubt-...
Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming by Naomi Oreskes
www.amazon.com/Merchants-Doub...
Doubt Is Their Product: How Industry's Assault on Science Threatens Your Health by David Michaels
www.amazon.com/Doubt-Their-Pr...
Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy: The Harvard Medical School Guide to Healthy Eating by Walter Willett
www.amazon.com/Eat-Drink-and-...
Nutritional Epidemiology (Monographs in Epidemiology and Biostatistics) 3rd Edition by Walter Willett
www.amazon.com/Nutritional-Ep...
Life Without Diabetes: The Definitive Guide to Understanding and Reversing Type 2 Diabetes by Roy Taylor
www.amazon.com/Life-Without-D...
0:00 Head explosions from the Netflix Twins Documentary
1:04 The first Stanford paper
2:18 Are Stanford scientists biased towards veganism?
3:42 The Internet lost its mind over Netflix
4:59 The fascinating backstory
9:12 The difference between Netflix and Stanford
12:25 The negative reviews
13:20 Nina Teicholz
15:15 The Triumph of Doubt
16:02 the supplement salesmen: Paul Saladino
21:23 Popular health book misinformation: Peter Attia
25:45 Low carb misinformation
28:10 Why LDL?
31:36 What Walter Willett thought
33:25 Funding
34:21 Louie Psihoyos: telomeres 
Наука
Yesterday I stacked 25 bales of horse bedding each weighing 25kg because the delivery driver (overweight 30ish)looked like he was going to die and was gasping for breath I’m a 66 year old 5’2”vegan woman and I’m as muscular now as I was when I ate meat 45 years ago
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼❤️
Billy Bunter reference, wow! :-)
Woohoo. Go you!
OK! What's the point? You didn't mention his diet.Where is the b12 in your diet today? Along with many other nesessary nutrients found only in meat?
What’s up with your username?
Thank you for having the integrity to actually ASK the primary source for answers. It disheartens me that something as simple as this is completely lost on the majority of popular RUclips channels.
As SIMPLE as this? Seldom do I find so all over the boards about myriad items, never reaching conclusions. Like a cow grazing in the pasture, he starts a subject just long enough for me to begin grasping his subject, then it's jackrabbit racing 🐎 off to another subject, without shoring in any continuity for clinical observation. It's flabbergasting. 🤪🥴🤪
@@qkcmnt1242Maybe you're the problem here.
@@qkcmnt1242 Nobody else is struggling. I wonder why that is?
@@qkcmnt1242 Pretty sure the "simple" part was about asking the primary sources before assuming stuff without knowing.
Do you really don't see the difference between a staged show and reality? They were filming the study as it developed, and already interviewed vegan congressmen, writers, business owners, food scientists, fitness instructors and a ton of people whose income depends from veganism. They have already decided the outcome of the study before releasing it! Do you really think they would have completely changed the tone of the documentary had the omnivore shown to be better? Obviously no, this is called propaganda. Believe me, asking from the sources does not really help too much.
1. From a behavioral stand point, the study makes all the sense in the world, which was my impression when reading it. Like Dr. Ward, I also see the strong merit of clamping all variables to really create a cause and effect relationship. I think both studies would be equally valuable. The way the study was done (behavior based), it has far more real world applicability, which I respect and acknowledge is extremely important. However, I think we're overshadowing Dr. Ward's initial gut instinct to control all variables, because while the real world applicability of a completely controlled study is far less translatable, it gives us a foundational backbone of education that we can then move forward from - in essence, knowing which factor had the direct effect (weight loss, lower protein, or the vegan diet itself) can do a lot to silence the arguments (and future dismissed studies) that keep popping up by people who want to deny a plant based diet. That said, one could argue nothing will satisfy some (exactly to your point about it being difficult to convince someone of a point when they're paid not to see the point). In that case, selfishly, I'd like to see that study (all controlled), because when people then ask me if a vegan diet is 'pound for pound' better than an omnivorous diet, I'm stuck giving the honest answer of 'I don't know', because there haven't been studies controlling for every factor (don't hold me to that, I still need to do my deep dive on plant based studies) - I default to 'from a behavioral stand point, it will likely lead to better health by the nature of the diet', but I feel completely unsatisfied giving that response when I'd love to understand the comparison down to the detail and not with these 'confounding' variables in the way of my explanation. So, selfishly, and from a teaching perspective, I think Dr. Ward's controlled study intuition should be done in the future, even if we recognize it's limitations (just like the behavioral version had limitations).
2. It's like clockwork - you can go to any low carb brand and predict what they'll say before clicking on the video, which I don't see why people don't get tired of hearing the same defensive points being brought up (often times without merit). That said, I've run across some plant based channels that do the same (not yours). Everyone has an army for defense, but not enough mediators looking for peace.
3. I'm disappointed in Dr. Attia if that's his characterization. Studies like this take so much time, and to dismiss it as a 6th grader's worth of work (I'm paraphrasing), is disrespectful in its own right to the scientific process - against my earlier point, behavioral studies have immense value for translation.
4. I did not know that about the DEXA scans - thanks for informing, Chris.
5. 4:01 - I am tomato
P.S. Congrats on 100K :)
Thank you, Physionic. I always LOVE to read your comments. So much knowledge and wisdom in them. One of these days I need to interview you.
Hi tomato! 🍅
Hey, are you going to consider more vegan approach to dieting? Possibly even intermittent fasting vegan?
Would you add fish into the diet as well? I found, vegans could find their essential omega 3 and B12 in sardines easily, and those arent that environmental damaging as other forms of meats.
I am 🌶️
@@Klaudiuszeg There is plenty of omega 3 (and 6 in the correct ratio's) in vegetables, fruit and starches. Like oats is around 14%, spinach 12%. We do not need extra dietary fat. All dietary fats block the 3rd proton pump of our mitochondria leading to insulin resistance. Source, dr. Peter Rogers (or dr. John mc Dougall). Dr. Peter Rogers does the omad diet, he only eats once a day a large meal of starches, fruit and vegetables.
Great analysis. Animal products does not come to my plate. I am 75 years old enjoying good health and life. No processed food, sugary drinks and alcohol. I have an active life style and no matter what the biased nutritional experts say I will keep doing what I am doing for last 75 years. Thanks.
Well done.
It's good when we find the diet/lifestyle that works for us.
NO animal products for me for the last 30 years.
Strong as an Ox with amazing endurance and with very sharp critical thinking skills that saved us from some deadly awful shit over the last few years.
I just completed my 79th trip around the sun and decided to celebrate with a backwards somersault off Moona Moona creek bridge at Huskisson ,it's on RUclips and only 2 minutes but you might get a laugh.
@davidslater9297
Congratulations from a Carnivore. At least you're watching your food. Far better than the SAD.
i love how quickly paleo stopped being a thing when researchers pointed out that paleolithic humans actually ate very little meat, and mostly gathered for their food
Can you cite that research?
@@md82892 it's actually just something i was told while doing my anthropology course in college, but i know it's sort of common knowledge in the social sciences, so i figured i could just google it and in fact you can! if you google "Hunter-gatherers were mostly gatherers, says archaeologist", and it should bring up an article from the guardian
@@md82892 It's "cite."
Great for the researchers, they probably follow idiots to
@@md82892 Archeologist here. The research regarding a paleolithic diet is mostly based on what modern hunter/gatherer groups eat. Meat composes very little of these diets because without a gun, there's a large expenditure of energy to get it. The most common methods used are trapping an animal or wounding it and following it to exhaustion. A few very large sites show evidence of scavenging as well. If you're really interested in diets of extinct people, the "Journal of American Anthropology" is a good source. Also, "American Antiquity". These aren't newsstand publications, so they're rather expensive.
This channel should have 1M subscribers at least
Wait, the study was made by vegans. What were you expecting? I love those STUPID vegans.
Veganism can just mean eating Oreo cookies exclusively if a vegan wishes (except fudge-covered). It is a distinctly unscientific, sociopolitical diet.
Do you really don't see the difference between a staged show and reality? They were filming the study as it developed, and already interviewed vegan congressmen, writers, business owners, food scientists, fitness instructors and a ton of people whose income depends from veganism. They have already decided the outcome of the study before releasing it! Do you really think they would have completely changed the tone of the documentary had the omnivore shown to be better? Obviously no, this is called propaganda.
@@juanpablosanchezaveleyra6454 I don't think propaganda is the word though 🤣. They had a good idea what the results were gonna be based on previous research. I also think there's a chance they actually knew which group was getting the better results because even if it's blinded, which of the 2 is going to have reduced LDL? Once they knew that maybe they could tell which group was which. But yeah, if results were negative the show wouldn't have come out or it would've been a short documentary or something different.
@@dekyor9547 If you have ever worked at research papers, as I have, you would know how tremendously unethical It is to assume what the result would be... this is a show, not science... can't you really tell the difference anymore?
I am 62 years old , and VEGAN , I have never felt better, i feel so good, i walk/run 4 miles everyday!! thank you for this video, I would never eat animals again, they suffer such un imaginary cruelty, that just breaks my heart. i volunteer at a farm sanctuary , ALL ANIMALS WANT TO LIVE!!💚💚💚💚💚💚💚💚💚💯💚💚💚💚💚💚💚
so do plants. check out the studies on plant consciousness, ie stuff like "Research into plant perception is showing that plants have feelings, they are sentient, they communicate with each other, feel pain and they can plan into the future." ideologically crippling isnt it? who decides who will die so one can live longer? universe is weirdly wild and exquisitely beautiful in it's ornate representation of personal idiosyncrasies
@@YogonKalisto oh my god 😱, so all people who eat animals, kills even MORE than the vegans 🙈😂😂😂🤡🤡
@@YogonKalistoso by eating animals,you still kill more than on a plant based diet 🤔
try eating without killing. it's speciesism plain and simple. who chooses what form of life is more important than another? human, hubris? gonna be safe and assume it's at the very least, both
Meat eater have the best life expectancy and also live to b me the oldest in age. Have fun with your bowl of rabbit food and supplements. I will stick to a longevity diet AKA omnivore diet.
Chris you continue to hold your National Gem status - thank you and dont stop
I'm not even half way through this video yet and it's already evident that you've put so much time and effort into this video. Well done! love it
Congrats on 100k!!
Share his video's. We need to make it to a million asap!
it's upsetting when i see people like peter attia not look at the science honestly! I felt a little hopeless at the beginning seeing how many people were discrediting this paper but I know that science and truth will prevail. People cannot ignore this forever
It's his interpretation of the study - you can interpret it in a number of different ways.
@@jj900sure I agree with that but there is a difference between being fair with your interpretation and not. I believe he was not being fair and dismissed interesting findings on a well constructed study. No study can be perfect so it will be really exciting to see what other studies come out after this one looking into the findings found.
I'm not surprised none of the twins went vegan after the study because veganism was never discussed. It was a plant-based study comparing an omnivore diet to a plant-based diet.
When you're vegan (ethically against animal abuse), eating a plant-based diet (and all other vegan lifestyle choices) is easy.
It's depressing how many of my friends and family agree with my ethical, environmental, and medical reasons for going vegan yet not a single one of them will put their money where their morals are.
Vegan diet is not the same as vegan lifestyle.
@StrangerDanger491 beyond my understanding😢
@@StrangerDanger491 They probably need help doing it. Most people aren't good at changing.
My dad finally started eating mostly plant based meals. He said that he can finally start wearing a belt again, he can also tighten it to the 3rd hole.
I know people who watched Earthlings and didn't go/stay vegan. People have to be a certain type of driven to try or stay vegan and even more driven to stay wfpb without sos. I've been driven all my life and so is my husband and the combo is great (for us) but not so much for our (suffering) families and friends who aren't as driven.
Great job! Thank you so much for what you're doing for the society.
I just met with my breast cancer PA. She told me to cut out meat and dairy.
Don't listen, or, more to the point listen to everyone. What I mean is that there are significant benefits that people DO get short term (8 weeks, not longer) going Vegan, but the Protein is too low and the Oxalates and Lectins and Carbs too high. So you watch for best health to switch between Vegan, Carnivore, Keto, Fish based etc. Even on the meats it might be good to have a trend of being say high beef, then give Chicken a hammer, then Fish or Pork. Everything has benefits and detriments and ancient man had access to and ate ALL foods but not all at once, that is how our body is best designed to work, omnivorous over time not all at once! Things come in cycles. If you do a good and low protein high Soluble Fiber Vegan for not longer than 2 months then maybe omnivore for a week then switch to Carnivore or Keto (High Protein) and do that (Be aware of short term keto flu and solutions) and get the benefits of meat for a couple of months, try Valter Longo's FMD on occasion.
For estrogen positive tumors like mine was, you have to keep your estrogen intake as low as possible to stay as safe as possible. Therefore, the addition of more estrogen from meat and dairy is not in my best interest. Since plant estrogens (in soy and other products) do not metabolize in the same manner as animal estrogens, they are not a concern
@@jonathanberry1111 What nonsense! You'll kill the poor woman just to make yourself feel better for being a sucker for one of those bro-science meat and supplement influencers? Disgraceful.
Maybe not appropriate to post in public (especially on this video which is devoted to science) but I’m convinced my BC was caused by stress, lack of sleep and poor diet. I’m ok and hope you are as well. I’m not vegan yet but trying to get there. Good luck to you 😘
@@jonathanberry1111 But don't listen to this guy if you've got cancer.
Paul saladino will literally repeat the same lies over and over even after being confronted.
I think Paul just recently starting eat fruit and do did not doctor shawn baker
Do you really don't see the difference between a staged show and reality? They were filming the study as it developed, and already interviewed vegan congressmen, writers, business owners, food scientists, fitness instructors and a ton of people whose income depends from veganism. They have already decided the outcome of the study before releasing it! Do you really think they would have completely changed the tone of the documentary had the omnivore shown to be better? Obviously no, this is called propaganda.
@@juanpablosanchezaveleyra6454 I believe the science in so strong for plant based diet that they knew that would be result. The plant based group did significantly better. The documentary did come off like propaganda though. I been vegan for about 10 years and I didn't like all the promotion of vegan junk food they did.
@mattzilla331 But doing what you say is extremely unethical. Involving economic interest in a study because you already expect the outcome is anti scientific. Scientists are supposed to avoid any type of bias.
I totally acknowledge that a lot of vegan people feel great and have a ton of research behind their decisions. But so do carnivores. There are a ton of people getting better from ditching plant based foods and carbs, they don't matter? What about they studies that support their view and the evident conflicts of interest they have correctly pointed out? It does not matter?
Nutrition is an extremely complicated issue, and we will never know the truth if people put their bias firsts and are ok with the release of information that comfirm their belief even if it has conflict of interest. That is tribalism, not truth.
@juanpablosanchezaveleyra6454 unfortunately that's how almost all studies get funded now. We have the data to know what a healthy diet is. There's hundreds of good studies showing you should be eating a plant based diet that's low in total fat especially saturated fat. You don't have to be 100% vegan to maximize your health but you better be close to it. Tons of epidemiology data. Tons of lifestyle intervention data. Carnivore is garbage. No studies back up Carnivore at all. I'm sure ppl feel better because they are eating an elimination diet so they aren't eating processed foods and lose weight but that's it.
I love how your videos pull back the covers to expose what's underneath.
Nina’s comment regarding Chris passion for the environment. You can’t decouple the two. In medicine we have to be advocates for change on climate action. In fact the list of medical organisations who are acknowledging this is growing. AMA, ACEP, AAP and the list goes on.
Hi Adrian!
God bless you.
Please keep up the good work.
Please know we little people are lifted up by your courage and attempts to be fair and balanced.
Please keep it up! Many thanks.
Congrats on the 100K subs Chris! Have been a subscriber since those early vids on the longevity of plant based versus omnivore "influencers". I love how you show your research and this is a prime example!
Awesome! Thank you! It takes me forever to make an episode, so probably my subscriber count will continue a slow build instead of taking off.
@@PlantChompers Honestly, I am subbed to some content creators who maybe make one or two videos a year and it's always worth the wait. So for me I think quality over quantity every time!
Thank you. I'm a big fan of Mark Rober and Veritasium and they both take time to make their videos, but they are great when they finally come out. That's my model. I think RUclips needs better content, more not so much.
Wow this video is exceptionally done. Love every second of it, wished it was longer. The level of detail and research that goes into these videos are commendable. Best reaction to the twin study hands down. I appreciate you and your work Chris!
Congrats on the 100k you magnificent bastard! Keep going! Please. Someday the shitshow will subside. I love you.
Thank you so much from Denmark ❤❤❤. I wish more Danes would listen to a channel like yours 🙏. Right now the government is trying to get the Danes to cut down on the meat and have days with only WFPD, but the majority only calls it vegan propaganda 😢. It is so frustrating 😱🤔
Thank you. I dunno what it is about meat, besides genius beef industry marketing, but I guess most people find it delicious. 🤷♂️
Another dane here, from the Copenhagen area. You're not alone!
@@pissfloyd5790 nice 😍. I'm from Esbjerg among all the big meat fans 🤔. You can't convince them to eat less meat 🙈😂😂
Du er skam ikke alene 😉
@@markwebster432 fantastisk ❤️😍
You've been doing unique full length documentaries for so long. Congrats on the 100k mark. To a guy like you, that doesn't mean much I suspect, but I wanted to point out - some of us pay close attention to this channel. I knew by your 3rd video (that's when I found it) this was another level of sophistication.
I just love how down to earth and factional your videos are. Thank you for doing this for us! Indeed, once you see the doubt they spread, you can't unsee it. It's such a shame..
Carnivores who watched the documentary rushing to their favorite youtube influencer so they can give them peace of mind
The core problem with a carnivore diet is that it is extremely unsustainable at every level from human physiology to animal husbandry to agriculture. Moreover, industrial agriculture will make seriously bad to outright dangerous moves to increase profit margins both on the slaughtering and egg/dairy processing ends as well on how the plants are processed and grown that feed the animals. All these things from chlorine baths to antibiotics to irradiation to herbicides and pesticides to fertilizers accumulate in the endconsumer. A carnivore diet in our times and especially in the industrialized world is a terrible idea.
@@zeideerskine3462 and animals are tortured and slaughtered
Who cares they are here for us to eat
@@Travisg5 because.... You say so? What if I said you're here to be eaten, who cares?
@@Travisg5I hope AI doesn’t think like you do.
Chris - you bring it all together so skilfully. It ends by exposing the nutrition charlatans like Attia, Nina and their tribe. But beyond that it affirms there are scientists and people of good will out there who have a relentless pursuit for clarity & truth. For the impact is astonishingly, comfortingly holistic and healing for people AND planet.
Go well.
Dear Chris, I thank you so much for your work, I returned recently from ExpoWest in Anaheim, the company I work with had a stand I had the chance to run into great people like Zach Bush, Khalil Rafati and others, was really wishing and hoping to meet you. Maybe next year, I recommended people to check your channel out, I truly believe your channel is one of the absolute best in dealing with our modern day health and well being concerns.
Love the videos and a great watch. Keep the knowledge flowing, go vegan and save mother earth, the science is there, and I've never felt as well as I do since going plant based,
You did it again!
👍👍 Whole food plant based for the environment and health; vegan for the victims! 🖖
With every one of your well thought out videos, you're leaving behind a legacy of being a peak communicator on these topics. Bar none, no competition. Thanks for your work Chris. 🌱
Wow, thank you! That makes my day. 😁
@@PlantChompers I agree. You make sense of it all.
Great job. Love your presentations. Thank you for your hard work and inspiring videos.
No amount of evidence is sufficient for people that don't want to believe it.
I agree. Vegans dont want to accept that meat eaters on an omnivore diet live to be the oldest in age and also have the best life expectancy. Far greater than vegans.
So from what I understand, the Vegans ate substantially less calories than the Omnivores. Naturally, the Vegans would lose more weight have better biomarkers. Why assume it's the meat that was causal to the outcomes, it could have been the calories. Why not say, lower calories healthier than higher calorie diets?
@@jamesr8584 Vegans tend to eat less calories because they eat more fibre. It's a feature of the vegan diet.
@@Mrm1985100
I know, but what if an omnivore ate a lower calorie diet to lose weight, would they have the same outcome as a vegan eating the same amount of calories? I'm trying to determine if it's the meat itself that is a problem or is the extra calories.
@jamesr8584 dont forget that the vegan group also lost muscle mass. The reason they lost more weight is because they are losing body fat and muscles, which is not healthy, especially for a long period of time.
Yeah!! 100K subscribers!! Well deserved!! 🎉
As a quasi-reformed RUclips health junkie, I eventually realized there's much less conflict than I originally was led to believe. The problem was a lack of details and nuance. Once I got away from sound bites and began fact-checking the claims and data upon which they were (supposed to be) based, a lot of my cognitive dissonance began to dissipate. I owe the bulk of my thanks to this channel, Nutrition Made Simple, Nourished by Science, Sigma Nutrition, and The Proof.
Great choices. 👏
@@PlantChompers I happened upon Nourished by Science on my own, but I learned about the others from you, Chris! I'm truly grateful for having found your channel. You're not only brilliant, but you're also funny, wise, generous, thoughtful, and have class, style, and integrity. I love your beautiful family, too. You are all delightful.
You wonder how many studies or experiments it will take to change people’s minds that a healthy vegan diet is the way to go.
I started a long post about how changing my diet cured my type 2 diabetes, but I figure I will get flamed by other commenters as having made it up. This was an entertaining video. Thank you for posting it.
Thanks for the clarity. Can't tell you how much I appreciate your work.
Superb video Chris. I'd love to see you do more deep dives into the sustainability side of things - and interview the authors of the key studies (Dr Tara Garnett, Joseph Poore, Hannah Ritchie etc.). Going through what is meant by land use change, eutrophication, freshwater withdrawals etc. would be interesting.
Thanks for the continued loyalty to science.
When your business model depends upon providing more or less plausible rationalisations for eating unhealthy diets to people who want a licence from internet experts to do so, then the response to this study (not to mention countless others which present inconvenient evidence), was understandable and expected.
I'm so happy to see your channel growing!
Another great episode 😊❤🌱🌿🌳
I questioned/commented upon some Peter Attia advice given in a long-form podcast once... and the Peter Attia groupies came for me!
There were dozens of critical responses to my words 😂
A few docs I know say the Attia groupies come for them too, but, like Peter, they typically struggle with blood pressure and cholesterol. 🤷♂️
Congrats!! I just noticed that your channel finally has reached 100k!! I have been following plantchompers quite from the beginning and have been waiting for this moment! More than deserved 🎉
Accurate or not, the documentary was the "last drop" which moved whole family of mine (incl 8 and 9 year old daughters) to whole food plant based diet. But actually not the documentary itself, but the reaction to it from carnivore, low carb, keto and LDL conspiracy community. I think it finnaly turned on my critical thinking, that all those agry people having so much hate towards people who eat plants cannot be "right". Also special thanks goes to P. Attia, who used to be pretty decent, but recently became obsessed with animal protein.
The funniest thing is I used to hate people who eat plants but for some reason I went to the doctor when I was 20 (4 years ago) after a few years on very very low carb diet. My blood pressure was 160 at 20 yo, my liver enzimes were in the 120s (normal is below 40), not eating any carb and being very very active and last year my cholesterol was starting to reach the 200, then I decided to try plants and put my ego aside. Blood pressure is now in the 120s, cholesterol 130, ldl 80, triglecerides 40. I'm literally in better shape and health eating that much carbs and all the plant based doctors I see online are 70, 80, 90, 100 years old meanwhile all the low carb doctors are in their 20s, 30s, 40s and some in their 50s.
Attia has long been addicted to odd dietary beliefs. It has been very profitable for him. Plant Positive did some interesting analyses of Attia's claims ten years ago eg ruclips.net/video/92TjZa1tC8U/видео.html
@@imhassane I also went full cycle - from eating unhealthy diet - to low carb high fat, which helped for a few years, but eventually ended the same way as it is described in the literature - with insulin resistance, high LDL, brain inflamation, etc. Tried WFPB, although with some fear of losing muscle or feeling weak...and oh boy, how much things improved, both health wise but also sports performance wise.
Thanks for Attia. It seemed I was alone in complaining when Zoe featured him in a podcast. Zoe is supposed to be about "science and nutrition".
This. I argue with these “carnivores” not because wfpb veganism is better (although I believe it is), but because their beliefs are so very, very wrong and dangerous for so many. Not to mention the damage it’s doing to the climate.
Facts are facts and I’ll never quit arguing with them, no matter how many fingers Dr. Ken Barry authoritatively holds up
Nothing screams more than seeing Shawn Baker - the gift that keeps on giving
Wow, this is one of your best videos yet. I'm really happy to see such a thorough work identifying the patterns in these common merchants of doubt. Really excellent work here! Thank you!
Chris cheers from brazil!!! love the way you show studies!
You really are a gifted and trustworthy presenter.
I can watch that Netflix show now with the confidence that you
(a bit like Dr Michael Greger) have ‘put it to the test’.
Thank you for reminding us that we all need to examine things beyond their face value.
Here’s a tiny example of how these merchants of doubt use words to dupe people here in Ireland: to meet legally binding EU environmental targets, the beef industry has been told that it needs to downsize. The industry has chosen to fiercely resist this change.
This Irish beef industry is all of a sudden referring to its product as: ‘the National Herd.’ Whether in political discussion or on the climate crisis, (from TV to radio and broadsheet etc.) this new terminology has just turned up out of nowhere - unquestioned - and has now become a normal part of the conversation.
It may seem like a subtle shift, but I think this inane/ludicrous phrase: ‘the National Herd’, is deliberately designed to give a kind of (charged - yet empty) patriotic nuance to the conversation. It’s as if being asked to be better stewards of the environment is somehow a threat to our sovereignty. How absurd.
Before this marketing concept was invented there was no such thing as a ‘National Herd’. There is still no such thing. Yet there it is - in print and in all media. I suppose doubt is all about chipping away at science and language and reality.
Anyway, this would be laughable if it weren’t so effective.
I’m sure the Merchants of Doubt in America are up to similarly sneaky sleights of hand. I'm looking forward to reading the book you recommended - The Triumph of Doubt by David Michaels.
Thanks once again for your integrity and science-based approach. You’re providing an important public service that we can all learn from. It is a valuable shelter from the harmful misinformation out there. I love your easy going style and your efforts to make this fascinating (and critical) subject accessible and engaging.
I’m a newbie to this plant-based thing and very excited by all the new things I am learning. Your videos are wonderfully thought provoking and I have learned from you how to learn better. That’s what I meant by gifted.
Thank you so much, Silver Toothpick! (cool name 😁) Unfortunately, they do focus group testing on names like National Herd so they have a very good idea of what pushes people's emotional buttons. I hope you love The Triumph of Doubt as much as I do; it's like seeing how magicians actually do their tricks.
thank you. i really like how thorough you are. and thanks for roasting peter. he needs to be debunked more.
Yo know what we need next? Vegan vs vegan long term studies. Put a bunch of people in as many combinations of the diet as possible (fruitarian, vegan keto, high seaweed, whatever) and then track down their progress and evolution for the following decade.
I know, a study like that would be pricy if you want to get a big enough sample size for each of the permutations of the vegan diet, but one can dream.
Congratulations on 100K!! Let the next 100 be a lot quicker :)
I appreciate your careful discussion of land use for beef at 19:10. I can validate that regenerative beef is not scalable. It's just positive marketing for the few who are able to benefit from selling that way.
Great video, Chris ! Appreciate it, I always end up watching your videos at least twice as they are so densely packed with important info...congrats on 100K subs, you deserve millions of subs; keep up the great work!
horses are not oats 😂 another gem of a video. It'd be interesting to compare the monetization stragies of some of these other youtube channels say compared to Plant Chompers which I heard is raking in the big bucks at $0 in paid sponsorships per year.
😅 Thanks, Rudy! My wife often reminds me about how much I pay to do this...
TOP video as always.
Congrats on 100k subscribers!
Weird how Hyman can put out book with the ridiculous title of "Young Forever" with him on the cover. He looks pretty rough for 64 in most of his real photos.
He looks fine for 64 - certainly better than your average 64 yr old you’d see at Costco. Also, a lot of people’s appearance in terms of aging is generic.
I was surprised when I saw him, He does not look well at all
@@MichaelHplus People (some) really are ridiculous about some of this stuff. Many anti-vegans say similar things about Dr Greger. He's bald and skinny...I'd rather look strong and have a full head of hair so that proves (in my mind that vegans are malnourished). People on both "sides) do it. Some vegan activist criticized Dr Sarah Hallberg's appearance and tried to say that proves her low carb high fat diet isn't healthy. She was fighting cancer at the time and has since died. And for the record many people who were overweight type 2 diabetics have done very well following her dietary approach.
He looks good for a 64 year old. I wonder where these types of comments come from, someone who is young and see 50 as old? ....or someone who has been so indoctrinated by fake images on Instagram and social media that they have no idea what aging looks like.
Amazing! I always love your videos. Would you be willing to share your soy yogurt recipe?
If anyone would know about lacking scientific merit, it would be Ken Berry
Berry by name, Berry by nature, Berry by appearance, hahaha.
Ken Berry? The guy that looks like 🔴? 😂
Ken Berry is among my preferred RUclipsrs. He recently released a video debunking the pseudoscientific study in question. I highly recommend watching it as it's both informative and clears up numerous misconceptions.
@@WilliamEllisonKen Berry acts like a wounded sad puppy every time a new study comes out disproving his theories about the ketogenic diet which is the most UN-Healthy diet of the Top 35 most popular diets. No one would ever hire him to do scientific research because his mind is already made up in favor of keto from the get go. He’s very prejudiced in favor of keto. He’s not simply looking at the evidence. He’s too emotionally involved. He loves to eat meat so he twists the data all around to try and prove the keto is best when in fact it’s the WORST!
@@WilliamEllison he should start debunking himself too as half of what he says is wrong/biased
I love yoyr content. I also trust you to be Honest. Keep up the great work.
Awesome, as always.
What a lovely looking round number of 100k ❤
You are amazing Chris! Greetings from Colombia!
The recent Stanford twin experiment actually shows that when calories are controlled for there is NO difference. The Vegan diet twins ate about 200 fewer calories per day than the omnivorous twins and the health hazards reduction matching what would be expected from a 200 calorie reduction independent of food choices.
Hi Chris,
I always enjoy your videos, partly because you are such a warm personality but also because the videos are always so entertaining and well researched/well produced. You must spend so much time on these!
I knew the Netflix series was coming up as I'd watched the Rich Roll interview with Louie Psihoyos, and also Christopher Gardner had mentioned the Twin study (either to Rich Roll or Simon Hill as both have done great interviews with Chris in the last year). I like Chris Gardner as much as I like you, or Simon Hill! Chris is a warm, funny and intelligent guy - and brilliant Stanford tutor from all accounts. It's really no coincidence that you all know and understand the importance of a diet rich in whole plant-based sources. I've heard you all make a similar personal statement in interviews - that in the end, it's the understanding of the link between the environmental costs and animal welfare impacts that make you take the choice between a (mostly) plant-based diet and one that is a completely vegan diet. Simon covers this very well in his excellent 'The proof is in the Plants' book - the research clearly guides that a 80-85% plant-based provides you with good health benefits. If you want to go fully plant-based then that's more of an ethical decision. We see the same ideas echoed in books like Kate Raworths' 'Donut Economics' - we can live a better life if we take account of the planetary boundaries. We have clearly as a species done a bad job of this in the last century. We don't have the capacity in this world for this much livestock consumption, or this much area of the natural world for food / water resources to provide for that dietary choice for the animal feed involved.
If people complained about dentists stating "We should stay away from sweets and fizzy drinks to help with our teeth health" then nobody would bat an eyelid: If you work in that profession then it's not a difficult statement to make. So it should be no surprise that good health professionals would support a move towards a diet that is heavily biased towards whole-food plant foods. From Adventists to Mediterranean to the Blue-zones, the evidence is pretty conclusive.
I'm fairly sure that Nina Teicholz's comment on Chris Gardner that you included in the video actually wasn't what he stated in the interview as it was contained in the interview with Rich Roll (or Simon Hill - not sure which). I'm fairly sure he stated that when he was teaching a class about plant-based diets it was the students that weren't really interested - until he included aspects about the effect of diets on the environment, or linked diets to inequality and elements of social justice. Once he included those aspects then far more students were interested in the emphasis on plant-based diets or reducing meat consumption. I could be wrong but I'm fairly sure it wasn't his statement that he wasn't interested in the health benefits. But I could be wrong.
In the end, as you stated - somewhat unfortunately - a lot of people will tune into what will only confirm their life-choices. Full kudos to you for keeping doing videos which try to put some analytical discussion on the social media response to videos like 'You are what you eat'. Sometimes you must want to prefer to do a much more positive video based on different topics. I'm thinking here of what we call 'Brandolini's law' (I only know this because George Monbiot has pointed out this is what he often has to do to regarding research and counteracting misinformation).
Regarding smart folks, I recently was lucky enough to speak to (and thank) Hannah Ritchie after a panel talk she recently gave in London ('Everything Electric'). We are lucky to have such bright people fighting to disseminate properly researched statistics. I know you would have enjoyed reading her recent book! I've supported Government scientists in a previous career stint during important health discussions (BSE/Mad Cow Disease) - it's only ever impressive and inspiring to hear real scientists trying to solve real problems. If only more people had faith that a lot of researchers are ethically motivated and actually transparent whenever that is possible. I guess that story doesn't sell so well these days!
best wishes - keep up the great work (sorry this is a long message!)
Michael
Underrated and high value content like this deserves all the praise.
Congrats on the 100K should be 100M in my opinion!
Anybody who hasn't read the 2016 revised China Study needs to get a copy or get the audiobook. It's a major revision and my #1 recommendation for nutrition books 💪
You should only get diet advice from a real Ph.D in nutritional biochemistry with awards and honors and or a Nobel Prize with a long term track record of being right such as Roger J. Williams, Fred Kummerow, George H. Whipple, William Parry Murphy, Edward Adelbert Doisy, Frederick Gowland Hopkins, all 6 would say that single ingredient meat, poultry, fish and eggs are good for you in moderation and that dairy is ok in small amounts if you like it and are not allergic to it but a human is an omnivore and they should still consume a balanced diet in the basic 4 food groups. Colin Campbell has none of the attributes of these 6 because he wrote a debunked book accredited by nothing.
@@StanDupp6371 debunked by who, denise minger? LOL A person with 40 years researching in nutrition has no authority. tell me more.
@@anonimogonzalezperez4951 When Colin Campbell did a study in which he fed genetically modified rodents with isolated protein found in milk (not a whole food) in non physiological doses and then poisoned them with aflatoxin derived from mold found on plants which resulted in faster cancer growth in casein group he concluded that animal proteins cause cancers in humans, this is why he has no awards, honors, inventions, patents or Nobel Prize in anything because he wrote a debunked book. The real China study was done in 1960 have you read it?
@@StanDupp6371you've clearly never read his book, or his second book, which addresses the alleged debunking. But my best book pic would be Dr. Greger's How Not to Die!
@@LydiaZ36 You clearly have not read the original China study which was done in 1960. No person should read any Greger book since none of them are accredited by anything since Greger has no license or board certification in anything which means he has no real life experience in anything.
A very interesting study! And I'm not surprised at the social media backlash at all. Well done delving into the criticisms!
These days I eat mostly vegan - I deviate from it by eating fish maybe about twice a month, and some dairy - used to eat dairy every day, but recently switched to hummus to put on my bread instead of cheese, so now I'm eating a bit of dairy maybe twice or three times a week. The rest of it is vegan. And just recently I changed the diet to add more legumes, and I have to say that my body seems to agree with it very well. I feel better. It was after I added more legumes I found that I naturally left out most of the dairy, without even trying. Lentils are surprisingly satiating! And, with liberal use of spices, make for some very good eats! ☺
Another great video, as usual. You're the only one I know who has such a big focus on the disinformation machinery from the big incumbents. Really appreciate it!
On another note, I think it could be interesting to do a DEXA scan after the initial study as well, to see if there's some lingering effects. Even with regression to the mean effects, there could still be some differences between the groups since it takes time for fat to accumulate, and also if the plant-based group kept some parts of their study diet.
And lastly, congrats to 100k. So well deserved!
Again a great episode!! Always looking forward to the next... thanks for all your efforts and keep up the great work
Nice one again Chris! Xxxm👍💋❤️🌈🍒
Bless you for making these videos.
Thanks for the rundown of the Stanford twins study!
Your videos are always amazing to watch. Thank you for your work
I love your channel. I'm plant based. Trying to get my family to be more and more plant based.
According to Ken Berry, just about any ailment is caused by carbohydrates
Hences asiatic paradox, a keto nonsense classic.
Bravo! What a great video. Well balanced, informative, truth based, and lots of fun to watch. Thanks so much Chris.
your videos are helping my friends and family.thank you from india.
wow, I just realised I have never seen you without your cap! Somehow I thought you had hair, you completely changed your image in my head with this video, haha
Chris, I'm still waiting on the second part of the PFAS video!!. And thank you so much for all what you've shared, I admire you so much! ❤❤❤
Great video about this fascinating study. What interested (and puzzled) me most was that the vegans spontaneously ingested less energy than the omnivores. That to me, a recovering fatty, is the philosopher's stone.
Netflix introduced excerise as an intervention in addition to the diets. This was disappointing, as women, particularly older women, respond differently (poorly) to intense exercise. HIIT can drive up cortisol and eat into muscle, which was shown in the dexascans of the two older female twins. I felt bad for them, as they were subjected to an exercise regiment founded on research of young males. 🤨
I'm 50 years old and do intense HIIT 5 days a week. And I do it in a room that is heated to 90 degrees. I'm super fit. The problem wasn't the work out... it's that they were likely not eating enough. You have to adjust a bit. Plant based is so satiating that I found myself undereating at first.
@@LydiaZ36I recommend reading researcher Dr. Stacy Sims' Next Level and other work.
Thanks for another great episode. I've been thinking back to an earlier episode where you mention believe it was your son in law becoming vegan after marriage and losing over 100 lbs. You should interview him and share about his weight loss journey.
God Attia really does seem like a beef jerkey selling youtuber doesn't he? Just a long worded one. I love how Mr Chomper has the cash to fly out, film the actual scientists to shut people up. Great video as usual
Carnivores who watched the documentary rushing to their favorite youtube influencer so they can assure them theyre going to be okay, that the documentary is bad 🤣🤣
But humans aren't carnivores?
@@MustardSkaven read it again, I think you didn't understand. But anyways, that's a poor argument. Just because we can digest something doesn't mean we should eat it. I, for example can't justify eating animals in my situation, so I'm not an omnivore either.
@@dekyor9547 I was having a go at the old vegan argument of "humans aren't omnivores or carnivores". So I think you didn't understand my comment.
You called meat eaters "carnivores". I think the vegan term for meat eaters is "carnist". A carnivore is a species that is mostly or even exclusively eating meat.
So, no, I was not making an argument. I was calling out an incorrect term.
@@MustardSkaven I see. I know it's wrong but it's easier than saying "people on a carnivorous-like diet". Carnist sounds more like someone who needs and loves their meat and would never go without it
@@dekyor9547 Well technically most people are already on a plant based diet. Since the majority of their food is plant based and they add meat. But I can let that go cause in the context "plant based" usually means "only plant based".
Carnist does sound goofy but it is apparently the term used for people that eat meat, even in lower quantities.
Concerning the actual topic. I doubt many "carnivores/carnists"' are rushing to a video to confirm that their diet is healthier. Most people simply don't care about healthy eating. That's why so many "vegan vs omnivore" studies are tilted cause they compare a vegan diet, which is obviously aware of health, to the average omnivore diet, who doesn't care about health and eats McDonalds. Unfortunately, they usually aren't about a healthy vegan diet vs a healthy omnivore diet. But just a healthy vegan diet vs a random Joe Shmoe eating habits diet.
I'm a smoker, for example. So why should I give 2 sh*ts about the health argument?
So Chris, speaking of Netflix documentaries, Dan Buettner's Blue Zones, care to do a video on the controversial subject? I'm sure you saw Dr Carvalho's video, and yeah, he brought many very good points, as he usually does. Thank you.
I was at first also sceptical about the short period studied but the fact that it did show differences in that time was actually a positive.
Well done on this video, Chris! And also, congratulations on reaching 100k subs!
Another banger. congratz on the 100K subs too!
This was the first truly value added review of the documentary that I’ve seen. Thank you!
Well done, Chris. Well done. Great analysis.
Incredible as always, Chris. Also loved that you included some climbing clips of Magnus! The collab I never thought was possible!
Awesome collection of facts and background into the study. This was so fascinating. I had bloodwork after a year and iron was actually at the higher end of normal. Vit D 32. And B12 was at the top end of the range as well. LDL 80. Try 50. HDL 70. BMI 24.5.
Doing such good work Chris. Right on!
Oh, I appreciate you doing this work.I so needed this because I was hearing all the pushback about the twin study.😮
Awesome vid as always
thank you for the clarity, as always
I have some issues with the sensationalization in the documentary, but broadly it and other similar documentaries seem to be pushing the needle back towards common sense -- which is that we should be eating more plants. Several of my friends and coworkers asked me (the token vegan) about the documentary, and Game Changers as well, and I think the "flexitarian" part of the population is growing.
Brilliant video
Great work, Chris. Ken Berry is a menace.